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Woz Worries Microsoft Is Now More Innovative Than Apple

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the listen-up dept.

Microsoft 333

First time accepted submitter yvajj writes "According to a techcrunch interview, Woz believes that Microsoft is now more innovative than Apple. Per the interview, it seems as though Apple is now just doing newer versions of the iPhone, and are potentially headed into a rut. Another gem from Woz is the fact that he treats all new hardware as something new to learn from and does not approach it with any preconceptions (irrespective of who the manufacturer is / what OS etc.). A great short interview from Woz."

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Do RTFA (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41997825)

Interesting interview.

Re:Do RTFA (2, Funny)

aliquis (678370) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997857)

Read?

Wasn't it a video?

Re:Do RTFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998691)

Yeah, I think the acronym he meant was WTFV: Watch The Fucking Video.

Re:Do RTFA (0)

rjames13 (1178191) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997861)

What interview? There are quotes from an interview in the link but I can't see an actual interview transcript.

Re:Do RTFA (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41997877)

Full interview video you can find here (or I'm sure elsewhere)
http://www.neowin.net/news/steve-wozniak-microsoft-might-be-more-innovative-than-apple

Re:Do RTFA (4, Informative)

Vicarius (1093097) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998239)

Here's direct link to TED's video on YouTube, so that you don't have to navigate maze on all these articles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MKXjjpZqZwU [youtube.com]

Re:Do RTFA (1, Insightful)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998587)

Woz. Is kind hearted and thoughtful.

This excuses him from being wrong and somewhat crazy.

Re:Do RTFA (4, Insightful)

Lodragandraoidh (639696) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998739)

In what ways is he wrong, and what ways is he crazy?

(If you're going to make such a bold statement, at least provide some evidence to support your hypothesis please.)

Woz's unbiased reviews (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41997835)

That's refreshing to hear instead of the typical /. preconceived garbage they carry around, calling people as Apple fanbois or Micro$oft; and predicting doom and gloom for every corresponding company's new product launch. /.'ers ability to predict product success is about as good as predicting the stock market.

Re:Woz's unbiased reviews (5, Insightful)

hoboroadie (1726896) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998113)

he treats all new hardware as something new to learn from and does not approach it with any preconception

The Woz is a very rational guy, and is just enjoying the coolness that his world provides. If you WTFV then you can perceive that he is hyper-aware of the misuse of data by less ethical entities and is somewhat dismayed by this as well. He appreciates the bleeding edge, so an interview is always valuable for that POV. Great to see he's still surfing that wave.

Re:Woz's unbiased reviews (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998511)

The Woz is a farking nutbar who hasn't been himself since the plane crash. Unfortunately, he's worshipped like a demigod by the tech community - we hang on every word he says even though the majority of it is bullshit.

Re:Woz's unbiased reviews (-1, Flamebait)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998169)

Unbiased doesn't mean it's of value. After all this is the guy that thought the greatest thing he could do for an internet connection was move to Australia. The guy is a bit of a muppet.

Re:Woz's unbiased reviews (5, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998327)

this is the guy that thought the greatest thing he could do for an internet connection was move to Australia. The guy is a bit of a muppet.

He's wanted to be Australian even before the NBN. The faster internet connection would just be icing on the cake for him.

Wozniak said: “I intend to call myself an Australian and feel an Australian, and study the history and become as much of a real citizen here as I can,” adding: “For 30 years I’ve had a desire to live in Australia. I’m going to live and die as an Australian.

His desire to become Australian is just another example of how sane, sensible and grounded the man is.

Re:Woz's unbiased reviews (1, Offtopic)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998391)

He's confused, he really wants to be a New Zealander but Australia is trying to steal him from us.

Re:Woz's unbiased reviews (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998605)

An Australian Joke.

Q: What's sperm and a kiwi(New Zealander) have in common?

A: They both come in their millions but only one of them works.

Re:Woz's unbiased reviews (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998645)

I wont even begin to say how short sighted this is. Let me see, a technologist wanting to be close to the infrastructure which will be considered TO BECOME THE BEST/FASTEST IN THE WORLD.

Read up on the NBN and understand what it represents as technology as a whole. Know that it puts every other form of current infrastructure to shame and also know that it will be a precursor to the development as technology as a whole.

Things to consider.

- Removal of old style media broadcasting, which includes the retrenchment of satellite technology.
- The activation and encouragement of voice services within mobile carrier systems to be provided as strictly data. I.E phone carriers simply become ISPs.
- The removal of ISP infrastructure or responsibility of infrastructure. I.E ISP's as a point of contention simply resell the same level of services throughout the entire network I.E your phone, your internet, your tv come from one place and all competing providers sell the same QOS.

Get off Slashdot now, pick a new profession and find a another method of contributing to society. Technology isn't your strong point.

Woz schnoz (1)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997839)

Capitalism is in putrescent decay. New inventions no longer raise the level of human culture, instead, they provoke more suffering and deprivation for the masses. Communism is the only way out. TROTSKY!!!!!!!! > Steve Woznilak, Q.E.D.

Re:Woz schnoz (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41997955)

This is true up until "Communism is the only way out", but don't expect the choir to listen to heretics.

Re:Woz schnoz (1, Offtopic)

scarboni888 (1122993) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998281)

Entropy means there is no way out, regardless of the -ism you go with.

Re:Woz schnoz (0)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998499)

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to world events. Communism is a dead end. The Soviet went belly-up, and China is rapidly reworking their own government. Today, China is becoming a world leader, but not by exporting communism. Instead, they are buying into a modified capitalistic society.

Our unrestrained capitalistic world sucks, but communism sucks harder.

How 'bout we try to build something that doesn't suck so bad?

Re:Woz schnoz (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998647)

We have geniuses do that all the time.

Then the rest of the humanity hammers them down.

Re:Woz schnoz (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998663)

China is doing it's best to form a fascist capatilistic society where the party elite rule with an iron fist but let common people make money, until they get too rich, then it's execution time.

Re:Woz schnoz (0)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998675)

Uh-huh - that's pretty accurate, I think. Except, you left out the corruption bit. Corrupt bastards, both rich and not-so-rich, are very happy to do crazy shit like poisoning the milk that they sell to children, in the name of profit.

Most all of them should have been executed.

I don't really think they are executing people just for being rich. They have to do something in addition to becoming wealthy.

Why should he be worried? (5, Insightful)

Drumhellar (1656065) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997849)

Why should he be worried? Innovation benefits everybody, no matter who does it!

Re:Why should he be worried? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41997879)

I think he is more concerned that Apple isn't utilizing it's full potential. Instead it is squeezing a products value for all its worth before moving on.
Which is what they have always done IMHO.
I'm sure as soon as Apple TV comes out he will spend 2 months in line and make a customized wall for his tv to fit into.

Re:Why should he be worried? (0)

Amouth (879122) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997981)

you mean this product

http://www.apple.com/appletv/ [apple.com]

that has been out for several years with multiple hardware generations?

Re:Why should he be worried? (1)

hahn (101816) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998015)

you mean this product

http://www.apple.com/appletv/ [apple.com]

that has been out for several years with multiple hardware generations?

Unless you've been living in a cave, you know perfectly well what he means.

Re:Why should he be worried? (1)

Curupira (1899458) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997965)

Why should he be worried? Innovation benefits everybody, no matter who does it!

Also, if he gets worried, he can ask Machete [theverge.com] for help!

Re:Why should he be worried? (-1, Troll)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997967)

Particularly with a company like Apple who are so experience with stealing others innovations.

Re:Why should he be worried? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998579)

Some quote about great artists comes to mind, any idea what I'm thinking of?

Re:Why should he be worried? (4, Interesting)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998147)

Fuck it, I'm godwinning this shit right now! When the germans innovated warfare, not everybody ended up benefitting.

Now, back to our normal programming, the current patent system also discourages your way of thinking. There are open initiatives, that really benefit the whole, if not exactly everyone, and closed initiatives that raise barriers to entry in a market, so every consumer and competing company is a little bit more fucked over so the patent holder can pocket more bucks.

Re:Why should he be worried? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998305)

that REALLY depends on what perspective you want to look at. many "good" things did come out of nazi germany leading up to ww2.

posting anon to preserve mods

Re:Why should he be worried? (4, Insightful)

Dodgy G33za (1669772) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998319)

But hang on there. Germans made huge leaps forwards with rocketry with their V2. This in turn led to the space race, and the miniaturisation of electronics which led to the microprocessor which led to Apple being able to create products.

So yes, everyone did benefit. Even the Apple haters.

Except for the ones who are dead. (apologies to Glados there).

Re:Why should he be worried? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998655)

Germans made huge leaps forwards with rocketry with their V2. This in turn led to the space race, and the miniaturisation of electronics which led to the microprocessor which led to Apple being able to create products.

I know the Nazis dis some bad things, but blaming them for Apple is going too far.

Re:Why should he be worried? (5, Funny)

Rennt (582550) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998683)

Just goes to show, the only way the Nazi's could have been more evil was if they had patented their wartime tech.

patents: More evil than Hitler.

Re:Why should he be worried? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998467)

Yeah! Why should I want my child to be top of her class on her test tomorrow?

At this point... (5, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997865)

Woz should probably be cheering for Apple's demise at this point...

Just imagine if IBM had been as good at shifting shiny cyrptographic lockboxes and patent litigation back when Apple was getting started. They would have sued his hacker ass back into the garage for good and we'd all still be speaking EBCDIC.

Re:At this point... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998141)

Things haven't changed that much. At the time of the first Apple computer, IBM had a patent on the way characters were displayed on a CRT. They enforced it, too. I know a guy at Xerox PARC that found a way around it.

Re:At this point... (1)

Spykk (823586) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998143)

W/it, we /re>'t spe/,i>g EBCDIC />`_?re? +? w?>der >?b?d` u>derst/>ds _e...

I'm a little worried (5, Insightful)

BluPhenix316 (2656403) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997887)

That people are going to take this interview and run with it. The Woz is saying he likes hardware. He uses all types and gives it a unbiased review. He said he can see Microsoft being more innovative than Apple. That is all. He isn't saying Apple is doomed and Microsoft is the new king. I think The Woz is a great guy as i've said before in another post and this is another great review from someone who loves hardware and not companies.

Re:I'm a little worried (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998011)

He said he can see Microsoft being more innovative than Apple. That is all. He isn't saying Apple is doomed and Microsoft is the new king.

Oh so now we're being nuanced? Two days ago when Sinofsky left Microsoft this site was ablaze with predictions of doom for Microsoft, including this [slashdot.org] sensationalist front page article entitled "The Empire in Decline. Now that a respected technologist and geek has something positive to say about Microsoft, all the "Well hold on a second, let's take a moment and be reasonable here..." comments get modded +5.

Typical Slashdot.

Re:I'm a little worried (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998061)

He said he can see Microsoft being more innovative than Apple. That is all. He isn't saying Apple is doomed and Microsoft is the new king.

Oh so now we're being nuanced? Two days ago when Sinofsky left Microsoft this site was ablaze with predictions of doom for Microsoft, including this [slashdot.org] sensationalist front page article entitled "The Empire in Decline. Now that a respected technologist and geek has something positive to say about Microsoft, all the "Well hold on a second, let's take a moment and be reasonable here..." comments get modded +5.

Typical Slashdot.

I especially liked the quote there about Microsoft "creating walled gardens deliberately incompatible with competitors' platforms" as being the reason for their demise... with Apple it'd be the walled garden of wonder which would be soiled for everyone if a lesser being could access it.

Slantdot editing at it's finest.

What are you worried about? (1)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998227)

Think Apple's stock might plummet? Oh wait...

Re:I'm a little worried (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998245)

Neck beards are going to beat their chests no matter what. Too many people out there who need to get their self esteem from what device they carry in their pockets.

Really? Woz? (1, Insightful)

Beat The Odds (1109173) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997911)

Have you seen Windows 8?

Re:Really? Woz? (1)

ikaruga (2725453) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998019)

It's innovative for sure. Not necessarily "good"(depending on YOUR needs. Although I prefer Linux, I personally have no complaints other than walled garden on the ARM versions and the EFI restrictive boot).

Re:Really? Woz? (1)

Beat The Odds (1109173) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998091)

Do you want to know just how innovative Windows 8 is? (at the risk of getting a little off topic)

Had a difficult time getting the upgrade to run. Got the informative error message "Windows 8 installation has failed". That helped tremendously. Then, finally got it installed and thought that running "Windows Update" might me a good idea (I was wrong on that one). I installed a few updates and needed to reboot (no surprise there). During this reboot it said somethings like "upgrade failed, restoring old OS". Back to Windows 7. Whoopee!

Re:Really? Woz? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998079)

I've been using Windows 8 for weeks. The start menu is now full screen instead of a button, which makes it easier for me to start my programs and the tiles provide information without having to open anything. My email, news, calendar, weather, and stocks all display what I want to know with no effort on my part. I think it is an improvement. I used to have to go to Start -> programs -> and search for my program's folder and try to click on the executable without clicking on the Help, Order, Uninstaller, or Read Me. Now, unless I click on All Apps, the start screen hides all that for me and I need only a single click to get what I need. Administration is easier with just a single right click in the lower left. Holy shit, why didn't someone do this sooner. The start menu is a giant pile of shit that I had to scroll though and search through. With Windows 7 I always created a new toolbar because the start menu sucked. Now I just click. What is your specific grip about it? How long have you used it? Are you a just karma whore?

Re:Really? Woz? (1, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998173)

I've been using Windows 8 for weeks. The start menu is now full screen instead of a button, which makes it easier for me to start my programs and the tiles provide information without having to open anything. My email, news, calendar, weather, and stocks all display what I want to know with no effort on my part. I think it is an improvement. I used to have to go to Start -> programs -> and search for my program's folder and try to click on the executable without clicking on the Help, Order, Uninstaller, or Read Me. Now, unless I click on All Apps, the start screen hides all that for me and I need only a single click to get what I need. Administration is easier with just a single right click in the lower left. Holy shit, why didn't someone do this sooner. The start menu is a giant pile of shit that I had to scroll though and search through. With Windows 7 I always created a new toolbar because the start menu sucked. Now I just click. What is your specific grip about it? How long have you used it? Are you a just karma whore?

It was done sooner! That was WIndows Vista that had all of that. The only reason I stuck through it rather than go back to XP ... other than the school semester already started.

Windows 7 instant search is much better than 8's, as it does not require you to use the arrow keys to differentiate which is a file, program, or setting, and to top it off doesn't take the whole screen! If you had to add a second toolbar to your Windows 7 installation then you are doing it wrong and still thinking like it was XP.

Re:Really? Woz? (-1, Troll)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998617)

OMfG, is this a grassroots troll, paid for my Microsoft? Why does the parent sound like a Microsoft press release?

Re:Really? Woz? (1)

perlith (1133671) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998621)

Hi AC. For a power user, the quick launch toolbar is your friend.

- If you have not put it at the bottom of your taskbar extending the length of your screen, you are not making good use of it.
- I have about 40 icons in my quick launch bar, no scrolling required, with plenty of room to spare in a 1920x1080 monitor.
- The only time I need use the Start Menu is when I access a program I haven't used in awhile (perhaps once a month I'll need to do this).

I agree the Start button needs to die. I don't agree with its current replacement.

Re:Really? Woz? (1)

Espectr0 (577637) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998635)

With windows 7, you just anchored the app to the taskbar and ran it with one click. Or you just could make a desktop icon. Much faster than the menu itself.

Metro just hides everything and makes things confusing. Two IE versions?

Re:Really? Woz? (2, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998135)

Give Microsoft some credit? MS typically makes shitty clones of popular products. Windows 3.11 was an ugly clone and copy of the Mac. Nothing innovative. Netbios was their poor attempt of copying VMS networking technologies. Word was a copy of Wordperfect. Excel was bought and was a cheap clone of Lotus. IE a buggy clone of Netscape etc.

Windows 8, Surface, and Windows Phone, are innovative and new. Metro may suck on the desktop but I could use it on a phone or tablet. It is the first time in recent memory that MS is actually trying something new and different.

Maybe non power users and hipsters will like it? We are just old and set in our ways, but for most uses a tiny tablet that has a keyboard attachment and a tile UI is innovative.

MS is no longer the monster riding on IBMs monopoly. MS has never faced competition like this before. It was their nightmare of the internet multiplied over by apps and devices that use the internet as their platform which has the inertia to compete. What does MS have to gain by making poor knockoffs? Nothing.

Re:Really? Woz? (4, Informative)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998427)

Actually, Word was a contemporary of WordPerfect, not a copy. Lots of us used Microsoft Word for DOS. It went through 6 major versions before the Windows version.

woz: the boy who lived (5, Interesting)

cathector (972646) | about a year and a half ago | (#41997935)

seems like one of the few people in the valley who've managed to retain their techno-weenie spirit despite enormous corporate success.

Obviously! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41997941)

Are people blind? Seriously?

One look at the surface running windows 8 is enough to prove that microsoft is massively innovative these days. If anything, they might be too innovative.

Re:Obviously! (2)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998043)

Are people blind? Seriously?

One look at the surface running windows 8 is enough to prove that microsoft is massively innovative these days. If anything, they might be too innovative.

For putting on a new skin/overlay to cover up the 'start' button?

I Woz I Woz I Woz (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41997975)

What has Woz done in the last 10 years to advance technology? Anything close to following the great success of Linsey Lohan's acting career within the same time period?

Re:I Woz I Woz I Woz (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998071)

I dunno, teaching children how to use technology

Pffft (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998017)

Go back to Australia, you ex-patriot. Go enjoy your superior internet while we enjoy our superior country. USA USA USA

And Google? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998021)

Google is about to be sued by the Federal Trade Commission for antitrust violations in its FRAND licensing of patented technology.
Otherwise Google just copies everybody else's shit and calls it innovation.

Please Stop (0)

His Shadow (689816) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998033)

Wozniak had his ay in the sun. His accomplishments are a matter of the historical record of computing. But let's stop pretending Woz has any particularly useful insight into today's Apple. Woz has not had a hand in aching remotely to with Apple in over 30 years. He's good for quote, which is in turn good or hits, but the way the tech press continues to hang on his every word regarding Apple has more to do with a web based traffic model than anything he says being particularly insightful.

Re:Please Stop (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998213)

He hasn't had fuck all to do with computing since it surpassed the days of soldering stuff in a garage. He was a garage tinkerer, not a computer visionary.

Re:Please Stop (5, Insightful)

arekin (2605525) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998309)

Wozniak is a rational voice in a world of fanbois that sees benefit in innovation. Saying that Woz is not qualified on the grounds that he is no longer involved with Apple is erroneous at best. Woz was a true innovator, more so than myself or any other /. commentor and is perfectly suited to comment on his perception of what qualifies as innovation.

Maybe they will hire him back then (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998047)

So he can fix all those bugs in the IIgs ROM.

HOWARD JOHNSON IS RIGHT! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998059)

damn straight

Innovate or Litigate! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998067)

I dunno Woz, where it counts, I reckon that Apple's legal division still innovates when they litigate better than Microsoft's.

More about ownership and lack of control (4, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998075)

The start of the interview eerily echos the likes of RMS talking more about fear of the cloud; Ownership [Device and Data] and Subscription services, which I personally believe is a more interesting topic that this pissing contest topic.

The question about innovation has troll written all over it. The answer was not as the summary suggest "Microsoft is more innovative than Apple [or Google]", but that Microsoft seemed to be looking for revolutionary innovation as opposed to [Apples] post Jobs evolutionary innovation. Woz explains what he means; Apple is simply producing improved versions of its own products rather than creating new markets [post Steve Jobs]. To be honest I think the word innovation is stretched very heavily to mean something completely different, from what I would say it meant.

The discussion of whether innovative[sic] people [Scott Forstall] are being pushed out for being like Jobs[Innovative but not nice], Woz and I paraphrase a little basically says Apple creating great products despite Jobs [uses words like dis-admire?; rough; not friendly; real rugged bastard; put people down; make them feel demeaned].

Woz handled what seemed to be a interviewer with an agenda, with honest answers [or at least came across as such] that unfortunately are hidden behind a summery that does the same.

Re:More about ownership and lack of control (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998265)

Uhhh..one would think that "creating new markets" would be the very definition of "innovation" or at least a symptom of it..

And one might also say that resting on your laurels, aka "minor product updates" is *DEFINITELY* stretching the meaning of "innovation".

I think the innovation question was on point and fine. The things Apple have done recently are yawn worth.

As for Microsoft? Let's see some kinect technology rolled out to your hand helds!

Re:More about ownership and lack of control (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998339)

but the headphone jack is on the bottom.... THE BOTTOM!!!!

Re:More about ownership and lack of control (5, Insightful)

wvmarle (1070040) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998313)

Woz explains what he means; Apple is simply producing improved versions of its own products rather than creating new markets [post Steve Jobs].

Steve Jobs died now just over a year ago. Some will call it "ages in the computer world", but that depends on your perspective. Indeed many types of devices (particularly mobile phones) have a complete new generation every half year or so. Over the past year Apple introduced the iPhone 4S, iPhone 5 and iPad mini, amongst many other accessories and whatnot. That's not too bad. The 4S was shortly after Jobs' death, so is a Jobs-era product, the other two are much newer.

Indeed they did not introduce anything revolutionary, but then how often did Steve Jobs do that? Not too often I'd wager. Major releases were of course the Apple II back in it's day, and more recently the iPod, later the iPhone and iPad. These shook up the market, but other than the iPod which was totally new they're not that magnificently different. The iPod evolved to have a touch screen, then got a phone component added and it became the iPhone. The iPhone was then upscaled, the phone part removed, and one has the iPad. The underlying OS, and I see the iOS as a major key to their success, is the same for all, making it relatively straightforward.

OK I highly simplify it, but the point is: this are not totally new devices, they are rather logical evolutions, albeit with significant steps in between. And the iPod was 2001, the iPhone 2007, and the iPad 2010. So maybe in a year or two we could expect something revolutionary by Apple. Not every year, that's too much to ask.

Super Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998087)

Mr. Wozniak and Mr. Forstall should themselves go to law school and together acquire critincal and subtle patents and sue the heck out of anything that moves like every other technology giant.

No Worries here (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998095)

I've seen M$'s innovations, they're innovations are muff cabbage.

Innovate & Sell vs Innovate & Stagnate (2)

BoRegardless (721219) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998103)

It is easy to come up with lots of "new" products.

It is NOT easy to come up with a single new better product that people want to grab out of your hands.

Re:Innovate & Sell vs Innovate & Stagnate (4, Insightful)

Anubis IV (1279820) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998627)

Agreed. Moreover, companies that try to enter too many markets have a tendency to spread themselves thin and lose the focus that made them great to begin with. Suggesting that Apple isn't innovating by not creating new markets and revolutionizing with each iteration seems to be a rather short-sighted statement, even though it may be true.

And I do agree with his general idea that Microsoft is currently trying to find the next revolution, whereas Apple is pursuing evolution, but that is largely due to their relative positions at the moment, and it doesn't speak to their levels of success. Microsoft has fallen behind with their slow pace of evolution, so it needs to steal back attention and open up wallets by introducing something revolutionary, which is exactly what they've been trying to do. In contrast, Apple's formula has been to introduce revolutionary products and then iterate on them for several generations while attempting to invent the next revolution. Not every generation of every device should be revolutionary for the simple reason that it's actually harmful to the customer's ability to use their own devices, since revolutions come with a learning curve.

Truth be told, I think it's better for innovation when we have companies making revolutionary innovations that leapfrog each other, with evolutionary improvements coming in between. Not only do we retain a rapid pace of overall innovation in the industry, but the products are also given time to mature and grow, allowing their role in our lives to grow at the same time as we find new uses and ways to integrate them into the things we do. Constantly upgrading to the newest revolution is fun for some people, but it limits your ability to actually use the device, since you're having to waste time learning it, setting it up, and working it into your life. Those costs to the user are far lower with evolutionary improvements, but, as I hinted at earlier, those evolutionary improvements must still be significant enough, otherwise their slow pace will cause the company harm.

Woz should learn to STFU (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998115)

Yes, he played a critical role, perhaps the most critical role, in Apple's success and to a much lesser extent in the growth and success of the personal computer industry.

That was 30+ years ago.

Since then, he's done little of technical note, and really his opinions are hardly more definitive than any other technologically-savvy person these days. I don't know why he's still seen as such an industry insider or technological visionary.

Re:Woz should learn to STFU (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998349)

Why should he STFU anymore than you should? You jealous much?

What have you done of technical note?

He can speak as much as the rest of us, the difference is he has a larger audience.

Please sell me what I want! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998149)

My desires for a laptop are simple.

  • Retina display; that's 1080P or better on a 15" screen.
  • Real Hard Drive, because SD drives don't give me enough space.
  • Powerful Graphics Card NVidia 670 or better, 2 Gig or more RAM.
  • Replaceable Battery.

These are non-negotiables, and non questionable as to why; they are what they are.

And since Apple isn't willing to sell me a system that's up to speck, I'll continue to purchase PCs.

Apple's pace of innovation is slowing down (5, Interesting)

monzie (729782) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998185)

Unlike many people who posted here, I actually saw the entire video. I am not a Steve Jobs fan or an apple fanboi.
I do admire Steve Wozniak, though. ( though am not his spokesperson - this is my interpretation )

IMO, what he's saying is that
- Small, incremental evolutions by Apple in their products will not help Apple in the long run.
- The delta between Apple and it's competitors is reducing.
- Apple needs to create newer product lines AND/OR create bring out more 'revolutionary products'

He probably means that we're not seeing the kind of 'jumps' that we saw from iPhone 3GS to the iPhone 4
or the creation of the iPad.

To conclude, he does not think that apple is doomed per se.
He is just worried that the pace of innovation might be slowing down at apple. Like all geeks, Woz believes in catching problems earlier rather than later.

Re:Apple's pace of innovation is slowing down (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998351)

>>>He probably means that we're not seeing the kind of 'jumps' that we saw from iPhone 3GS to the iPhone 4
or the creation of the iPad.

Even the iPad is just a big iPhone, really. The iPhone was the example of how to make a better Blackberry in "The Innovator's Solution", almost exactly.

What Apple is really good at is taking other people's ideas and doing the engineering required to turn out a nice product. The trick is, Apple is a hardware company and they've been cannibalizing what could be their new markets with cloud offerings lately. They say a TV but, c'mon, that's not Apple's forte (5 year product abandonment on a TV?) What's the next hot geek item that Apple can get into? I doubt they have it in them to do 3D printer - this Apple would never have built the Laserwriter (niche market, low volume). Software-defined radios could be incrementally added to a phone but CPU's are such that dedicated devices beyond the *pods don't make much sense since so much can be done in software with apps now. Small devices are definitely a 'next thing' but can Apple generalize that in any way to an upscale market device?

It seems they're a victim of their own success. I guess that's why they've turned to the courts for revenue instead of innovating at this point.

Re:Apple's pace of innovation is slowing down (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998361)

- Small, incremental evolutions by Apple in their products will not help Apple in the long run.

He obviously remembers when other OSes were getting 32 bit and pre-emptive multitasking Apple just kept changing the lipstick on the pig that was MacOS.

"It just works" (2)

Tony Isaac (1301187) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998207)

You know, this makes me wonder...

Apple (Steve Jobs) was known for telling customers that it "just works" and for having limited options because the way it works is--obviously--the "best" way.

I wonder if Jobs ran his company that way too...just telling his people what to do, rather than teaching them how to arrive at good decisions or good designs on their own. If so, then they really wouldn't have a clue what to do now that he's gone.

Re:"It just works" (2)

HerculesMO (693085) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998329)

There is truth to this.... I think Jobs knew what he liked, and his 'vision' of things is what people bought. Now that he's gone, how can you teach the skill of "know what people will like" to anybody else? Forstall might have been one of the few people to kind of get it; it's embued in the personality of a self righteous asshole. Tim Cook certainly doesn't have it, though he might be able to save a lot of cash on the assembly line and through suppliers, ultimately that doesn't help Apple innovate anything.

Microsoft is an interesting animal at this point, and given they just fired Sinofsky (which I view as a blessing for them), I think you'll see a real convergence of MS technologies by Windows 9 (which is what, two years away?). MS is doing hard innovation through R&D, Apple is doing revisionary work and using new hardware in an elegant way as it becomes available (usually first, to them). Ultimately I believe that the R&D efforts will prevail, and Apple will have to play catchup; but at that point it's going to be too late. Jobs was prescient about these things, where Cook is clueless. In time, we will see how it falls out but I feel the benefit is to us really, so I'm just going to kick back and watch the competition.

Re:"It just works" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998609)

"though he might be able to save a lot of cash on the assembly line and through suppliers, ultimately that doesn't help Apple innovate anything."

Disagree here - the supply chain innovations that Tim Cook bought were hand in hand with the product design - have a look at the unibody macbook design here - without Foxconn buying thousands of CNC machines (on the basis of an extremely strong supply chain relationship), you wouldn't have had - the new imacs, the macbook air, all the ipads, the iphone 5.

But yes, it needs strong product direction to use the capability - not sure if Jony Ive has as much insight as Steve Jobs did.

That said, my assesment is that the Ipad is the one product Steve Jobs was trying to make - everything else was a step on the path towards that - so you could argue that he wasn't really that innovative at all :)

Apple never innovated... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998257)

Apple (i.e. Jobs) was very good at marketing and polishing an idea from someone else.
I honestly can't think of a genuinely unique idea to Apple.

I'm not a hater, but those are facts.

They just need to bring Jobs back again (1)

scarboni888 (1122993) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998273)

After all that's the only tme they're actually not going down the toilet.

Oh yeah that's right - they can't.

*flush*

The swinging pendulum (2)

Ramley (1168049) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998291)

It seems the pendulum is swinging back towards Microsoft. If you live long enough, it will swing back (or away from MSFT) again.

It reminds me of the days when data was stored on main-frames, mini's, etc. with distributed green-screens... it went to PC's (stored locally), and now the cloud, then...

It's the pendulum.

Re:The swinging pendulum (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998411)

A pendulum swings back and forth between Microsoft and Apple? It's still either/or??

For petes sake, it's not 1991. They are both increasingly less important players in the market.

oh give me a fucking break... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998317)

Microsoft FINALLY releases a fucking tablet computer like 5 years too late and that makes them innovative? Is this some sort of joke?

Woz innovation (1)

Cobble (1116971) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998431)

Microsoft has been more innovative than the Woz since about 1986 ;)

How shall we word this? (1)

White Flame (1074973) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998457)

My takeaway is that Apple is now innovating less than Microsoft, moreso than Microsoft is now innovating more than Apple. Microsoft's weird experiments, and the forcing of it down the throat of the market, isn't much of a deviation for them.

.. that would explain (1)

nightfire-unique (253895) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998505)

That would explain all the lawsuits against competitors...

What's he done for us lately? (0, Troll)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998611)

Not meaning to be disrespectful, but "Woz" has exactly one item to his fame. Who ordained him to say who is innovative nowadays and who is not?

Windoes 8 Phone (4, Interesting)

1000101 (584896) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998657)

I had an iPhone for two years, an Android (HTC Evo) for two years, and I recently got a Nokia 920 with Windows 8. All vey different experiences, but from an overall polish and usability standpoint, Windows 8 is the clear winner. The UI is wonderful. Apple still has the upper hand on hardware (not screens though), and Android has the upper hand in apps and 'openness' (if you even care about that). But when I got this device I felt like I did when I first got the iPhone. Maybe that feeling is what he is referring to.

2012 is Apple's largest R&D and Patent Award Y (0)

tyrione (134248) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998669)

Steve Wozniak is an ecclectic guy who couldn't successfully turn a lemonade stand into a successful business. Nice man, but his 15 minutes were decades ago.

Apple doesn't need to innovate. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998695)

Apple owns every industry it markets product in -- they could polish a turd and people would be lining up around the block to buy it, so long as it's got an Apple logo on it.

Woz up dock (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998723)

he needs some meds again
neither is innovative they need lawsuits to survive

Wrong Summary (5, Insightful)

Andreas Mayer (1486091) | about a year and a half ago | (#41998725)

Oh please. Woz didn't say that he believes that Microsoft is more innovative than Apple. He said he has seen Microsoft do some things that seem more innovative than what he has seen from Apple in the last few years.
But he admits that he doesn't even know the people currently in charge at Apple all that well, so how is he supposed to know what Apple is developing right now?
I mean, we all know how secretive Apple is. It's also no secret that Microsoft does do a lot of basic research; they frequently show promising tech demos. The original surface anyone? But it's Apple who creates actually successful products while Microsoft largely seems to be content making new versions of Windows and Office every now and then. It's just now with their latest tablet efforts that they are trying something new for a change. And that means new for Microsoft. There's not all that much new for the market in that product.
Or to take it from another perspective: I believe Microsoft *does* have the resources to produce a really innovative and compelling product. It's just that ... they don't.

Also, I have to comment on this sentence of the original article:
"if Tim Cook should stumble, Apple might consider bringing [Woz] back as their CEO."
That's just ridiculous. Look, I like Woz. He's obviously a really nice guy. And he's very smart; I mean, he built the original Apple-II almost on his own. But let's be honest: He's not a very good business man. He would make a *very* bad replacement for Tim Cook. And you know it.

They both suck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998727)

All apple can do is just re-shit every product it has over and over and over again with just a slightly new coat of paint each time. Sometimes their "new" products have a few specs of paint and sometimes they actually slapped the brush across it one time but it never really covers up the fact they are still selling the same old over priced, closed ended product to the same people who value the apple logo over alternative products that are open ended, perform better and cost much less because they are smug and pretentious.

All microsoft can do is take a product that was made popular by other companies, wait 3 or 4 years after said product has sustained it popularity, then microsoft will try to copy it but only manage to make a incredibly inferior product that never gains anywhere near the quality or customer recognition or customer praise as the original product they tried to copy. Microsoft is a company of no ideas so all they can do is limp along on the xbox name and windows name and the only "new" ideas they have are just them trying to catch up a bandwagon that had already driven off with most of the customers already on it a couple years ago.

Bottom line is apple is a company of bad ideas and microsoft is a company of no ideas. They both suck and neither has had an original idea in decades.

A Quick Eye and Keen Mind (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#41998729)

Robin: Batman! WTF!

Batman: WOZ sees the BIG picture and the micro-picture Tougher ... at the same space and time.

Robin: &$@#F9(!"B~

Batman: Calm down Robin. I and Commissioner Gordon need you on the 'General P.' case. That is the priority! THIS IS IMPORTANT!

Now. Go the the gym and work off this 'trouble'. You know what to do.

After that come back here pronto!

We have some new ... leads! ... looks like a 'fish' has taken our bait! and we need to 'reel it in'. The USA Congress and Oversight Committees
are waiting on us (they rightfully distrust the XO and XO Staff the DoD D and DoD Staff and CIA D/Staff and the FBI D and Staff).

This is NOT a pretty picture at all.

Get to it and get back here ASAP! 'When it rains ... It pours!'

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