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Outrage In India Over Arrests For Facebook Posts

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the freedom-of-poke dept.

Facebook 90

concealment sends in an AP report about an uproar in India over citizens arrested for their Facebook remarks. Quoting: "As India's financial capital shut down for the weekend funeral of a powerful politician linked to waves of mob violence, a woman posted on Facebook that the closures in Mumbai were 'due to fear, not due to respect.' A friend of hers hit the 'like' button. For that, both women were arrested. Analysts and the media are slamming the Maharashtra state government for what they said was a flagrant misuse of the law and an attempt to curb freedom of expression. The arrests were seen as a move by police to prevent any outbreak of violence by supporters of Bal Thackeray, a powerful Hindu fundamentalist politician who died Saturday."

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lol (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42059971)

Indians

Re:lol (1)

tqk (413719) | about 2 years ago | (#42064111)

Indians

Asshole. Internet: See Techdirt [techdirt.com] .

People plus govt. plus Internet == clusterfuck, these days. Get used to it. This crap's going to go on for a long time.

Good thing we got these "real name" policies! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42060001)

...that help keep online interactions civilized! (Surely there's no need for anonymous speech in my society. And of course, if you've got nothing to hide... oops, maybe we do have some things to hide because they are a bunch of NUTS out there.)

Re:Good thing we got these "real name" policies! (3, Interesting)

Quakeulf (2650167) | about 2 years ago | (#42060735)

I like anonymity in certain cases and would defend the right to stay anonymous, but when you cannot stay anonymous anymore the "oppressors" have won. Just like calling someone here on /. "Anonymous Coward" is a sign in itself of the general view on anonymous people which is quite immature, and ready for a change into something more neutral like "Anonymous".

Re:Good thing we got these "real name" policies! (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42061763)

Hello. Ma name's Larry. This is ma brutha Daryl and this is ma utha brutha Daryl!

I'd prefer something more eponymous, such as "Slashdotter" or just "Slash". <BFG>

Re:Good thing we got these "real name" policies! (4, Insightful)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42063943)

Just like calling someone here on /. "Anonymous Coward" is a sign in itself of the general view on anonymous people which is quite immature, and ready for a change into something more neutral like "Anonymous".

My real name is not ultranova. Yes, shocking I know. But really, my real name is not ultranova. It's just an online pseudonym I use here, which lets me create a narrative about my posts here, and lets other people judge that narrative as they will. And it also allows me to see how that reaction is going, and should it turn unanomously negative - should I be modded down constantly - I could perhaps analyze the criticism and see if it has a point.

So no, the thing about "Anonymous Coward" is not that anonymity is bad in the sense that you all should know my real name, no, it's about establishing an indentity within this forum and using that to have a debate. The day might come that ultranova disappears to the annals of history, but I, the real human being behind it, will still be here. And I'll remember all the criticism ultranova encountered, whether I agree with it or not. Contrast this with the Anonymous Coward, who can't learn for the simple reason that he can't easily track answers to himself.

Anonymity is good, but pseudonymity is even better, at least as far as the purposes of Slashdot and public debate in general go.

Actually it is the real person who will disappear (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42066403)

to the annals of history.

ultranova, however, may very well live forever. You just don't know, nor do you have any final control over that.What you say can and will be used against you, and against others as well.

This is why anonymity, real anonymity is so important. It is also why accountability, real accountability is important as well.

But unfettered speech must prevail, even if some are harmed. Anything else is just the start of oppression.

Re:Good thing we got these "real name" policies! (1)

NewYork (1602285) | about 2 years ago | (#42066105)

Bullying/extorting money & hiding in Matoshree is Bal Thackeray strategy.
His contribution to development of India is zero.

Slashdot is becoming a long list... (5, Interesting)

hawks5999 (588198) | about 2 years ago | (#42060005)

Slashdot is becoming a long list of arrests by the state for political speech on social media. The sad news is that there is so much to report. Keep bringing it to light /.

Re:Slashdot is becoming a long list... (4, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#42060329)

Yes, I hope it never gets to the point where we're so inundated with examples that we can't even muster a little outrage.

Re:Slashdot is becoming a long list... (0)

Threni (635302) | about 2 years ago | (#42060815)

I'm especially interested in articles that mention India and Facebook, because I've been reading Slashdot almost every day for over ten years, and frankly I've been getting sick of all the technical stuff about Android, Linux and so on, so all this crap about users and the problems they have half way around the world using shit websites that let them spout absolute and utter crap to anyone who'll listen to them is a pleasant relief. Perhaps I may suggest some posts about how hard some people in Peru find using chat software on windows 8, or maybe there are some small towns in New Zealand who are experiencing difficulties getting screen protectors for their new iPhones?

Re:Slashdot is becoming a long list... (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42061867)

I would just like a filter to NOT see anything and everything related to Apple or their iCrap. Except the legal battles with Android - now they are fun reading! :)

Re:Slashdot is becoming a long list... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42060347)

Only way Slashdot can make money now is political stories. Sad.

Freedom of speech.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42067579)

....only exists where blood was shed to obtain it, and blood is shed to maintain it.
Most people are far too chickenshit for the pursuit of freedom, unfortunately.
Ben Franklin described them best with his famous quote about liberty.

Going to get worse ... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42060065)

Lots of groups and countries are pushing for laws against the defamation of religion and blasphemy.

But when you lose the right to say "well, see, I don't believe in your god, and I see no evidence for it" -- then society has been taken over my the most vocal (and in some cases violent) people.

But, in some places, if I said "show me the evidence that Jesus was at least a historical person, let alone the son of god" ... or "Why should I believe that Mohammed was the prophet of god" ... there would be angry mobs ready to burn and stone me because I hurt their feelings. And in many countries, the police would be there to help them.

We will be seeing more attempts by people to enshrine in law respect for their imaginary friend.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

abirdman (557790) | about 2 years ago | (#42060161)

Posting to clear a mistaken moderation. This is a very good point.

Re:Going to get worse ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42060239)

Hey dumb dumb the arrest had nothing to do with Religion. Such bigotry on this site.

Re:Going to get worse ... (5, Insightful)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 2 years ago | (#42060311)

Hey dumb dumb the arrest had nothing to do with Religion. Such bigotry on this site.

It did, actually, although somewhat tangentially. The leader she was indirectly speaking out against was a leader of a fundamentalist religious movement with a long history of violence that is trying to expel foreigners and non-Hindu ideologies (they call themselves "Shiva's Army", if that tells you anything about their stance).

Re:Going to get worse ... (4, Interesting)

Trepidity (597) | about 2 years ago | (#42060447)

While he opportunistically attached himself to Hindutva ideology in the latter part of his career, Thackeray was really more of an ethno-nationalist than a religious fundamentalist. He started out pretty explicitly as a Marathi nationalist, positioning himself as a hardline advocate for the Marathi ethnic group, and pushing for them to have a privileged position in local politics/economy, versus other Indians who came from ethnic groups not native to Maharashtra. But he wanted to go bigger, so he started playing up more Hindu symbolism at some point to break out of being seen as only a Marathi partisan, even though they remained the core of his followers.

So in a sense it's religious, but afaict it's not religious in any sort of devout/belief sense, but more in the sense of symbols used to construct a nationality.

Re:Going to get worse ... (5, Interesting)

neosaurus (1621105) | about 2 years ago | (#42060707)

I'm from the region. FWIW that post had nothing to do with religion and Shiv Sena are a chauvinistic bunch of goons in the guise of politicians who are against everything and everyone who is not a native of their state irrespective of religion. They pander to the lowest common denominator and frequently vandalize all around the state and force city shutdowns with political clout and blatant violence. Unfortunately even the Central government has been responsible for similar arrests and attempts to curb free speech and expression in the recent past.

Re:Going to get worse ... (3, Insightful)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42062059)

I recall something similar happening & in almost exactly the same way, in Germany in the mid/late 30s...hmmm...if only I could put a finger on it...

Good posts & very informative guys (+1 if I had mod points), as far as Indian politics go, cheers. ;)

Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (3, Informative)

sanman2 (928866) | about 2 years ago | (#42061785)

Here, get an education - you ignorant gringo tourist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji [wikipedia.org]

Shivaji Bhosle was a local freedom fighter from Maratha history, akin to Robin Hood. He fought to protect the rights of local Marathas, waging hit-and-run battles against the Moghul Empire and standing up for the local people against the tyranny of Moghul invaders from the north over his native Maharashtra.

Bal Thakre and his supporters are also Maharashtrians, and Thakre formed the Shiva Sena ("Army of Shivaji") to stand up for the rights of his local Maharashtrian ethnic group, who were being bullied and pushed around by all the carpetbaggers flooding into his local area from across the country.

You see, the ruling Congress One Party State has been in power for 53 out of 65 years in New Delhi, ruling the country like an Emperor, caring very little for development of the local people. The Congress Party were basically founded by North Indians and are centred around their ethnic group, and they look down upon non-northern ethnic groups including Maharashtrians, insisting that everyone else assimilate into North Indian culture. The Congress Party has only been interested in hanging onto power and never cared to really foster development around the country, so what few big cities India has have then turned into dumping grounds for people from all over, who then flood into these sole few overcrowded localities, like India's largest city of Mumbai. All this does is keep compressing the people who already live there.

I'm a North Indian myself, but I have enough decency to at least be self-aware of how shabbily my ethnic group treats others in India, since we are in fact the dominant ethnic group in the country. Of course, most of the Indian media are from my ethnic group, and my Hindi language is also the dominant language of the country, so nautrally we always get to tell the story from our viewpoint, while conveniently glossing over the views of others. Our narrative is therefore the dominant narrative, while others are quickly labeled "extremists", etc to delegitimize their viewpoint. That's the mutual admiration society and the fool's paradise we like to foster for ourselves.

The Shiv Sena is not a theological organization, but simply born out of a backlash against the massive influx of people from outside the region. We Northies just like to say they're fundamentalists -- it's much easier to dismiss your antagonist as a "fundamentalist redneck" than to actually try to take a closer at their grievances, because nobody likes to see their own warts by holding up a mirror to themselves.

We get ample help from ignorant people like yourself, who'd ignorantly and uncritically parrot anything sensationalist claims they read or hear, without having any actual familiarity with the local politics.

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42062061)

Here, get an education - you ignorant gringo tourist:

Get back to the call center where you answer the phone "This is Bob"

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064413)

Here, get an education - you ignorant gringo tourist:

Get back to the call center where you answer the phone "This is Bob"

And make some goddamn money off us ignorant gringos!

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42063725)

What a load of crap !

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42063795)

Have you shit in the streets today yet? Or is that during your break from writing shitty bug ridden software or phish calling people to tell them their is a bug with their Microsoft Windows Operating System.

p.s. cologne doesn't cover up the curry smell.

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064629)

and nothing can cover up the wasted existence you are

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064401)

The Shiv Sena is not a theological organization, but simply born out of a backlash against the massive influx of people from outside the region. We Northies just like to say they're fundamentalists -- it's much easier to dismiss your antagonist as a "fundamentalist redneck" than to actually try to take a closer at their grievances, because nobody likes to see their own warts by holding up a mirror to themselves.

That is somewhat similar to the situation relating to the history and the present raise of the far right in Europe. Very different cultures and religions, similar "solutions." I guess it shows once again how we are all genetically related.

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (1)

darkstar019 (2320432) | about 2 years ago | (#42064525)

You can start from slashdot(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_Sena), which clarifies its name. afa congress is concerned, it is ruled by a daughter of italian mafia and not entirely a hindu/north indian household. Yes, the shiv saniks together with thakrey & his son/nephew are a bunch of disciplined chaps who just enforce their wisdom on us, the average Indians and enlighten us to follow regional terrorism. so, stfu and get your facts correct.

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064567)

Education does not mean wise. Get a fuckin clue.

Baal Thankerey might have projected himself as a maratha warrior and for the interest of the maharastrian manoos. But the truth of the matter is that one of the most corrupt politicians in India Sarad Pawar holds sway over most of Maharastra, inspite of Thankerey. The NCP which Sharad Pawar presides over is an ally of the Congress and thrives in Maharastra under the shadow of useful idiots who call themselves Baal sainiks.

In other words, he was just a charlatan who kept the masses entertained with his vision of maharastrian utopia and did nothing of the sort you describe to help the Maharastian manoos.

Anyways the elections are a farce with hacked electronic voting machines and these tidbit parties which called themselves kingmakers are of no consequence in the future. They will be used as television bodies a la Lalooo from time to time to project a secular front, but thats about the extent of their usefullness for the Congress-BJP duopoly. indiaevm.org.

Jai Maha Manoos
Bye Bye ignorance.

Re:Shivaji Bhosle Was Historical Figure, Not Deity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064765)

Does not matter why ShivSena was formed. They evolved into a group of power hungry, religious zealots. Having spent a lot of time with them I do understand what they were trying to achieve but they lost way somewhere when they realized they can enter politics.

As for the rest of your rant, what a load of crap. If you do not count Maharashtrians from upper crust (high income group), rest of local population is still trying to improve their living standards. Their ambitions do not always reflect entrepreneurship but finding a steady source of income. As you go lower in the income group life get more difficult. General lethargy, lack of education, and alcoholism does not help the case either.

Most of these separatist parties have recognized the resentment in people and are now exploiting this sentiment by providing them with a target. It is easy for these parties to blame everything on "Northies", but did you notice that these parties do not do anything constructive like: providing community based employment to their people, helping with medical services, ensuring cleanliness drives are successful, protesting against corruption, helping the farmers in Vidharbha region who are forced to suicide. Guess these tasks are not worthy of their time.

If people really think that Northies are the problem, stop working for them. There, that makes about 70% of Bombay jobless. Stop using services provided by them and I would love to see how general households function. Easy to point fingers sitting on your ass, fun starts when these guys will get their act together start working in earnest.

While I have 0 affinity towards ANY political party in India, you must compare Thakre clan with Gandhi clan. Both are power hungry manipulators, who have done precious little for betterment of others. Along the same lines as you, it is easier to carry out violent protests against "Northies" than to tackle the real problem. If one wants to rise up in life, he/she can not achieve it by trying to pull others down.

For the rest of you Gringo Tourists: Get off Slashdot, grow a pair and accept that Bob will put you out of of job if you are not competitive enough.

Shivaji - India's Robin Hood (3, Informative)

sanman2 (928866) | about 2 years ago | (#42062075)

Here ya go, Prof Chomsky - here are some pictures of statues built in homage to Shivaji, India's own Robin Hood, who fought for the weak and the oppressed - a real actual person from history, and not a fictional multi-limbed mythological deity:

http://www.indialine.com/travel/maharashtra/shivajiheritage.html [indialine.com]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/subratomitra/6073279079/ [flickr.com]

http://500px.com/photo/5242560 [500px.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shivaji_Statue_Apollo_Bunder_Front_View.jpg [wikipedia.org]

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/27769369 [panoramio.com]

Shivaji's dog:

http://amitkulkarni.info/pics/raigad-fort/picture-gallery/Statue-of-Shivaji-pet-dog-Waghya.php [amitkulkarni.info]

Yes, he even made it to California:

http://ekmarathimanoos.blogspot.ca/2011/11/american-shivaji.html [blogspot.ca]

Just please don't go around telling people that Jesus Montero was a central figure in the Bible, rather than a baseball player.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064635)

Not only that, speaking as a close relative of one of the guy's goons (but one who knows the dead politicians for what he was really - a goon - rather than what he was promoted as - a demigod), I would like to add that the people who attacked and ransacked the girl's *father's* *hospital*, said that Bal Thackeray was their god and they would not tolerate any disrespect shown to him.

This is a clear cut case of religious fundamentalism - in this case the perceived deity figure was the man who had just died.

Educated intellectuals (including top business managers) would regularly prostrate themselves at his feet to show their respect and obeisance to him.

Quite frightening if you ask me.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42068003)

The 'Shiv' in the name is a reference to the 18th century Maratha king Shivaji, not the Hindu god Shiva. And that party is more a regional than a religious party, even though it's a part of a Hindu nationalist alliance.

Re:Going to get worse ... (2, Interesting)

lucm (889690) | about 2 years ago | (#42060319)

But, in some places, if I said "show me the evidence that Jesus was at least a historical person, let alone the son of god" ... or "Why should I believe that Mohammed was the prophet of god" ... there would be angry mobs ready to burn and stone me because I hurt their feelings.

You don't need to go far for that. Right here on Slashdot it happens. Granted it's only modding down, no actual burning occurs, but "Troll" is a label that appears to be applied quickly to someone who says things like: "did Obama and Gore really deserve a Nobel prize", or "if global warming is man-made, how come it also happens on Mars" even when the questions are completely in line with the thread. Same used to apply to someone saying that Apple is anything but perfect, however in recent years as it became more mainstream to own Apple products the discussion on that topic seems less emotional.

People are intolerant all over the place and on both sides of every issues. But ask anyone and they'll say that they, themselves, are not intolerant, because *they* are right and the other is a moron. This behavior is universal and thinking that it is limited to religious people is a demonstration of that.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

RenderSeven (938535) | about 2 years ago | (#42060683)

Why do the best posts only show up when I have no mod points?

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42060839)

Don't worry, I upmodded him. He's now a +2 troll.

Re:Going to get worse ... (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42062119)

Daymn & here I am w/o troll points! :)

We will not tolerate any intolerance around here - it must be stamped out ASAP! I propose a hybrid trollerance meter which is collated/aggregated across all posts for a user, so we can see at a glance whether they are pro-tolerance, anti-tolerance, or just trolling for (in)tolerance! I, for one, will not sit quietly on my FA while this kind of schism is allowed to fester & breed in our midst goddamit!!!

Re:Going to get worse ... (1)

bhagwad (1426855) | about 2 years ago | (#42061595)

Moderation on slashdot allows me to ignore stuff. It doesn't remove it. Everything is still there to see. I fully support moderation as long as people still have the option to see stuff that was downmodded.

we were never at war with Oceania (0)

lucm (889690) | about 2 years ago | (#42062041)

If there is a discussion about the theory of evolution and someone says: "carbon-14 dating is not reliable evidence because test results that don't fall in the range expected by the scientists who made the hypothesis are typically rejected" he will get modded down just the same as someone who goes on a long, weird diatribe about extra-terrestrials sex experiments and african-american homosexuals (usually in less politically-correct lingo).

That is the flaw of the moderation system; it's mostly statements that make consensus among the voting crowd that remain visible, everything else is modded down with no distinction between actual trolls, obvious spammers and dissenting voices. This is no different from Putin sending those rocker girls to the same jail where they hold common criminals and actual terrorists. Maybe there is a missing dimension in the moderation system so people who just want to read comments from people who think exactly like them can do so without preventing actual discussions to go on.

Re:we were never at war with Oceania (1)

bhagwad (1426855) | about 2 years ago | (#42062099)

Again - modded down comments are still visible if one chooses to read them. And that makes all the difference in the world. Mod points preserve choice. Censorship doesn't.

Re:we were never at war with Oceania (2)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42064037)

That is the flaw of the moderation system; it's mostly statements that make consensus among the voting crowd that remain visible, everything else is modded down with no distinction between actual trolls, obvious spammers and dissenting voices. This is no different from Putin sending those rocker girls to the same jail where they hold common criminals and actual terrorists.

Well, no different except that no one is sent anywhere and nothing is removed. In other words, extremely different.

Maybe there is a missing dimension in the moderation system so people who just want to read comments from people who think exactly like them can do so without preventing actual discussions to go on.

That's a feature, not a bug. The whole point of a discussion forum is to discuss, not stroke anyone's ego with confirmations about how correct they are. If you want that, go visit liberal/conservative/evangelist/atheist/islamist/whatever forums. Or better yet, go visit a psychiatrist, have your insecurity issues fixed, and partake in actual debate - and yes, that means that someone might actually prove you wrong. And it hurts when it happens. But it's not actually dangerous, you'll be stronger after you've gotten over it, and there's no reason whatsoever why the Slashdot moderation system should insulate you from reality (which is the only way to keep it from happening).

Re:we were never at war with Oceania (1)

lucm (889690) | about 2 years ago | (#42064147)

Maybe there is a missing dimension in the moderation system so people who just want to read comments from people who think exactly like them can do so without preventing actual discussions to go on.

That's a feature, not a bug. The whole point of a discussion forum is to discuss, not stroke anyone's ego with confirmations about how correct they are.

Try to ignore the reference in this thread that is making you so emotional (Obama? evolution? global warming?) and read my comment again. This time maybe you will understand that I was not advocating having only consensual comments appearing in the forum, but rather the opposite.

The problem that I describe about the moderation system is that people have no way to express their dislike about a comment that is different from flagging a comment that is purely junk. If there was a way to say: "this comment is junk" (like rude homosexual african-american bashing) but "that comment is not junk but I disagree with it" (like someone challenging linux as desktop os) it would be possible to have actual discussions and people could choose the level of dissension from the majority they are comfortable with. Right now if there is a story about Windows 8 and I read it a few hours after it's been released, I can either choose to hide all the junk comments but also miss the threads where someone dared say that Metro is a better design than the Apple GUI (and got modded down by fanbois), or I can display everything and be exposed to spam and crap like those long weird sex stories. This is not granular enough.

Re:we were never at war with Oceania (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42066609)

Try to ignore the reference in this thread that is making you so emotional (Obama? evolution? global warming?) and read my comment again.

Ah, condescension. Is it there as an attempt to provoke, or purely to prop your self-esteem?

This time maybe you will understand that I was not advocating having only consensual comments appearing in the forum, but rather the opposite.

Bullshit. The whole point of your proposed system is, according to yourself:

If there was a way to say: "this comment is junk" (like rude homosexual african-american bashing) but "that comment is not junk but I disagree with it" (like someone challenging linux as desktop os) it would be possible to have actual discussions and people could choose the level of dissension from the majority they are comfortable with.

In other words, make sure that comments that don't follow the party line get hidden, least they offend anyone's tender sensibilities.

The problem that I describe about the moderation system is that people have no way to express their dislike about a comment that is different from flagging a comment that is purely junk.

Yes, there is. It's called "Reply to This". It leads to a form where you can type in the reason you agree or disagree, which other people can then judge in turn.

Right now if there is a story about Windows 8 and I read it a few hours after it's been released, I can either choose to hide all the junk comments but also miss the threads where someone dared say that Metro is a better design than the Apple GUI (and got modded down by fanbois), or I can display everything and be exposed to spam and crap like those long weird sex stories. This is not granular enough.

And do you think "fanboys" and paid astroturfers are going to distinguish between these?

But, more generally: yes, an unfiltered discussion is going to have lots of crap in it. That's the price of not having censorship.

Re:we were never at war with Oceania (1)

lucm (889690) | about 2 years ago | (#42066957)

Bullshit. The whole point of your proposed system is, according to yourself:

[...]

I've seen know-it-alls before, but it's the first time I meet someone who thinks he knows the meaning of a comment more than the person who made it (in this instance: me). You must be a hoot at dinner parties.

Since you bring again the concept of censorship in the discussion it is obvious you miss the whole point so I'll be the bigger man and concede that you are in your right to be wrong.

Re:Going to get worse ... (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42062171)

I still dislike not being able to post AND use mod points on the same article.

Where, oh where, have the good-ol-days of Usenet and divine news clients like Forte Agent gone...? And why has no one been able to copy/create a similar quality threaded news/forum viewer as a browser plugin to date...? *sigh*

Hang on - I still have v5 of Agent installed I think...[RDPs off to home PC to take a look :)]

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

Burning1 (204959) | about 2 years ago | (#42060353)

A bit off topic, but on the point of evidence showing that Jesus was a historical person... There is reason to believe he is a historical person, even if there is a lot of evidence to discount the stories about him.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ [rationalwiki.org]

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

onkelonkel (560274) | about 2 years ago | (#42060867)

Isn't looking for historical evidence of some guy named Jesus in Palestine 2000 years ago a bit like looking for historic evidence of some guy named Dave in Pittsburgh in 1972?

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42061881)

No its is not. Jesus is not a Paletanian name.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

scared masked man (2776663) | about 2 years ago | (#42063787)

Jesus is a Hellenised form of Joshua, which is a very common Hebrew name.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#42064035)

Not Joshua, Yeshua.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42067739)

Not Joshua, Yeshua.
And He was not in Palestine 2000 years ago, as there was no such place called Palestine then. The place was called the Kingdom of Isreal.
And there does exist physical historical evidence of Jesus in ancient writings by Tacitus and Pliny the Younger (both Roman govt officials alive during or very near the time of Christ).

Re:Going to get worse ... (1)

Burning1 (204959) | about 2 years ago | (#42080173)

Answer is in the link. The short version is that there are references that lead scholars to believe that there was a spiritual leader named Jesus. We do not have corroboration for much of what happened in the bible, however.

Re:Going to get worse ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42061689)

But, in some places, if I said "show me the evidence that Jesus was at least a historical person, let alone the son of god" ... or "Why should I believe that Mohammed was the prophet of god" ... there would be angry mobs ready to burn and stone me because I hurt their feelings. And in many countries, the police would be there to help them.

Would you name a few of these places?

Re:Going to get worse ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064467)

Any Muslim country will do. If you want proof, just look at how they reacted over a silly cartoon. Muslim countries will never grow industries other than natural resources because progress requires a healthy debate and criticism, and Islam forbids both.

Re:Going to get worse ... (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42061953)

Personally, I would just like a clear distinction to be made between organised religion and personal beliefs/faith/spirituality. One no longer has anything whatsoever to do with the other (in most cases I see), part of the reason I abandoned the institutional church many years ago.

Freedom of speech, thought & expression should never be limited or stifled in any way by anyone else's religious beliefs or political agenda/views, more like. Separation of church and state must remain inviolate & fundamentally 'constitutional', even though the clause is not in ours down-under, sadly.

Our radio journo Jonesy & his station got dragged over hot coals recently for simply saying (at a Liberal party speech, NOT on national radio, mind you), that our PM's recently deceased father would have been mortally ashamed of her if her were still alive. I am yet to hear anyone offer any clear evidence to the contrary, funnily enough. Perhaps he was proud of her, or perhaps he did in fact 'die of shame' & is still turning over in his grave, who knows?

If you can't joke about death at a funeral, or kiddy-diddling at a church service, then WTF is our world coming to I say!? But yes, the Indians are only one half step better than the Iranians or other Islamic fundies. I think the first & last war on 'terror' should be fought by first extricating ALL religious & corporate control/influence from all countries' political power structures, plain & simple. Starting with the US of course :).

Well of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42062045)

When you can't use logic and evidence to defend your beliefs, violence is all you have left. And to the sort of person that confuses mythology with history, violence seems completely justified.

There is a continuing trend towards atheism/agnosticism all over the world, and as it continues expect the hold-outs to become even more violent.

Re:Well of course (1)

tqk (413719) | about 2 years ago | (#42066969)

When you can't use logic and evidence to defend your beliefs, violence is all you have left.

Well, you could just walk away shaking your head in disbelief. Really, what's it to anyone if that $DIPSHIT over there agrees with you? Why care about him/her? $DEITY will sort that out eventually. That's not your problem, is it?

THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER IS REAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42063705)

And you hurt my feelings. I want to burn and stone you.

Censorship = violence/hatred (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 2 years ago | (#42060127)

The more restricted the speech, the more violence that comes of it. Censorship actually foments a culture of violence and hate. People will be offensive no matter what. I prefer they do it verbally. The physical alternative is much uglier.

Besides the topic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42060333)

I do not agree with most of his policies and his methods however it is very simplistic to label Bal Thackeray as a Hindu fundamentalist.

dual outrage! (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42060341)

(1) I'm outraged that people are being arrested for shit they say on Facebook.

(2) I'm outraged that the entire world seems so stupid as to think it's a good idea to tie real identities to everything they say online SO THAT people who want to use that speech against them are able to. (Never mind that the stupid shit you might have said at 17 will still be there nice and searchable when you are 52 and trying to become mayor).

Report: Every Potential 2040 President Already Unelectable Due To Facebook> [theonion.com]

Re:dual outrage! (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42062255)

RE (2): we should actually be able to live in a world as an enlightened species, where our real names/identities never need to be hidden, for fear of any persecution, whether it be religious, political, occupational, media-related or other. So I kinda agree & disagree at the same time, but I have no practical solutions as to how our race gets from A to Z where this is possible.

RE (1): ppl should be arrested in 2012/13 just for still being on Facebook I say! ;-p

Re:dual outrage! (1)

bestalexguy (959961) | about 2 years ago | (#42062257)

At 17 you can drive. If you're reckless you can do some damage, for example running a red light or writing that Mr. John Doe is a mass murderer, and that will remain searchable. I'd rather protect Mr. Doe than the young idiot. I have to admit I'd be tempted to vote for a guy who wasn't a total jerk even at 17.

Re:dual outrage! (1)

tqk (413719) | about 2 years ago | (#42067935)

I have to admit I'd be tempted to vote for a guy who wasn't a total jerk even at 17.

Oh, come on. Who wasn't a total jerk at times when he was 17? I was, and I'm absolutely positive you were too. Most seventeen year olds eventually grow up.

Re:dual outrage! (1)

sydneyfong (410107) | about 2 years ago | (#42063573)

(2) I'm outraged that the entire world seems so stupid as to think it's a good idea to tie real identities to everything they say online SO THAT people who want to use that speech against them are able to. (Never mind that the stupid shit you might have said at 17 will still be there nice and searchable when you are 52 and trying to become mayor).

They call you Anonymous Coward for a reason. You're outraged that some people in the world seems to have more guts than you do.

Re:dual outrage! (3, Insightful)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42064129)

They call you Anonymous Coward for a reason. You're outraged that some people in the world seems to have more guts than you do.

Mighty words for "sydneyfong".

Re:dual outrage! (1)

bingoUV (1066850) | about 2 years ago | (#42065327)

Report: Every Potential 2040 President Already Unelectable Due To Facebook

Haha, and I'll become President by default simply by not having a Facebook account.

No ???, pure profit.

don't mess with heros (1)

noshellswill (598066) | about 2 years ago | (#42060787)

So the dead politician worked to butcher-out the 8-th Century ideas of Muzzi-Wog invaders. Trash the MuJad. Good for him. He's a hero. a native icon ... a patriot! Any worthy Aryan would smash-mouth his critics also.

What if they had said... (1)

cvtan (752695) | about 2 years ago | (#42061085)

"the closures in Mumbai were 'due to jejune ennui, not due to piquant verisimilitude.' "

Careless comment got them into trouble. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42061153)

Understand that you don't have second amendment rights unless you live in the US. Different countries have different laws. So understand country that you live in, its laws and its society. Understand the ramifications of your online comments. If your comments are in violation of the local law then be sure that you want to post those comments and be prepared to back it up all the way and be prepared to fight. Don't let a careless comment get you into trouble. The girl in question even claimed after her arrest that her Facebook account was hacked two days before she posted the comment. Not exactly a free speech champion.

Re:Careless comment got them into trouble. (1)

bhagwad (1426855) | about 2 years ago | (#42061607)

Careless it may have been, but it was a legal comment. Even according to Indian laws.

Oh religion... when will you ever learn? (1, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#42061201)

Religion. Religious practice. Religious law. Theocracy.

If you practice it, you are being told what to think and what to believe. And if religious power is also the power of government, you've ALWAYS got a real problem on your hands *even* in cases where you are a practicing member of the established ruling religion.

On top of that, religion seeks to be the presumed origin of morality and that without religion, there would be no morality. This is demonstrably false, but as with nearly everything else associated with religion, they have no problems with spreading lies about their faith.

People don't need religion. They need to respect each other and to defend each others rights because to defend the rights of others is to defend your own. Religion plays no role in this except to encourage people to judge one another which is not quite what I would consider to be respectful in most cases.

Re:Oh religion... when will you ever learn? (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42062331)

Hmmm....not to be argumentative with your inferential logic, but just a couple points:

1. there are some well known Commies who virtually abolished religion in their very large countries and the question worth asking is, did it make those a better place to live & exist...?
2. As far as biblical 'morality' goes, I keep trying to re-educate people on this: the Holy Bible, as far as Christianity is concerned, is not a book of life or any set of teachings on morality or right vs wrong (though it has sections/pasages that are incidentally/anecdotally that). Is it first and foremost a testament of man's failure to save himself. So far, I would suggest that we are not proving it wrong in any hurry.

Re:Oh religion... when will you ever learn? (1)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#42062445)

"Commies" or "Nazis" is not the opposite of religious theism. Just be clear on what you're trying to say because it really sounds like it. The absense of religion helps. Even in religious countries, the less they actually practice the better.

Re:Oh religion... when will you ever learn? (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42063209)

I was referring to Stalin & Mao more specifically. "Religion is the opiate of the masses"...ring a bell? ;)

Re:Oh religion... when will you ever learn? (1)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#42065001)

Then that makes your argument completely non sequitur and irrelevant. To be more clear, I said "religion bad" and you countered with "anti-religion bad/worse."

Religion harms humanity. I can think of no single instance where that statement doesn't apply. Before the 1960's, Christian theism was pretty much all hellfire and damnation. People got into peace and suddenly, god became a loving god. Before that, holidays were largely just church services and they pulled in and adjusted for some really nice human holidays like Christmas (as we know it) and Easter (as we know it). Religion seeks to clothe itself in higher things and ideals, but none of them originate from the religion itself -- it is merely an adaptation or an adoption of something which already exists. This is done to the point that religious people seriously believe things like "how can you be a good person without god?!" This in turn, harms the religious person's over-all view of man by making them believe all men are evil unless they are practicing [their] religion. This, in turn, makes them easier to kill without conscience.

Re:Oh religion... when will you ever learn? (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42068761)

I do not think "non sequitur" means what you think it means. I was merely pointing out that the alternative examples from history shows us 2 of the greatest mass murderers were in fact trying to stamp out religion in their countries (not that that says anything at all about communism or religion necessarily). Whether Stalin was going to be a priest (as someone else pointed out) or not is only relevant if we know his motivations, fears & underlying ideological driving forces. But hey, I only grew up next door to Russia under the thrall of another communist 'dictator', so what do I know? :-/

Re:Oh religion... when will you ever learn? (1)

dryeo (100693) | about 2 years ago | (#42063751)

For the average person, living in communist Russia was much better then living under the Czars. Now if they had banned religion sooner it would have even been better as the real nutcases like Stalin were religiously raised. Of course it could be argued that if they hadn't banned organized religion then Stalin would have just been another priest.

Nothing to do with religion & freedm of expres (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42061547)

This case has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with inequality.

Inequality in India is so great, it is hard for anyone who hasn't visited to even begin to comprehend its magnitude or ramifications. To provide some sort of weak analogy take the 5 boroughs of New York and imagine that in Staten Island, Bronx and Queens no one has ever gone to a school. Brooklyn has only primary schools. Manhattan has a couple of high schools and one University which can provide a college level education to around 5-10 blocks. In such a city what kind of a debate are you going to have about religion or freedom or expression?

Re:Nothing to do with religion & freedm of exp (1)

Nostromo21 (1947840) | about 2 years ago | (#42062371)

Does this hypothetical nirvana still have a 2nd amendment...?

Re:Nothing to do with religion & freedm of exp (1)

tqk (413719) | about 2 years ago | (#42068189)

To provide some sort of weak analogy take the 5 boroughs of New York and imagine that in Staten Island, Bronx and Queens no one has ever gone to a school.

Granting your "weak analogy" comment, I have to point out that I don't think Mohammad, Jesus and his Apostles, Moses, Buddha ... were college graduates. It very often appears these days that so-called "higher education" is an inhibitor more than it it is an enabler.

Politics and Ethnicity, not Religion (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42062477)

Bal Thackeray was Maharashtrian and pushed for Maharashtrian people to have the most govt jobs in Maharashtra. So most cops in Mumbai are Maharashtrian, and they are devoted to worshiping him like a God for making that happen.

He was also known for inciting violence (hence the comment about 'fear').

So, you may not speak badly about him, not in Maharashtra anyway.

reply (-1)

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Just the same as the Slashdot zealots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064465)

who mod people down for mentioning the Jews' power and their ongoing destruction of every white country on Earth... Most of you idiots would like to see ME imprisoned for merely saying things you don't like. (Or can't face, more like).

www.tomate-bubble.com

animals (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42064945)

indian are subhuman retarded animals living in a country covered in shit and piss from cows, camels, elephants... what did you expect from these fucking cavemen?

To make money (1)

NewYork (1602285) | about 2 years ago | (#42066053)

Bal Thackeray chose fascism/bigotry/politics as a career to make money for his family.
In 1970's I've seen him roaming without slippers in Bombay streets.
His contribution to development of India is zero.

Re:To make money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42071023)

You dont say !! Thanks for confirming my suspision.

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