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Nokia Asks Court To Block RIM Products For Violating Patent Agreement

Unknown Lamer posted about a year and a half ago | from the elop's-last-stand dept.

Patents 52

itwbennett writes "The ITworld article reads: 'Nokia has asked a California court to enforce an arbitration award that would prevent Research In Motion from selling products with wireless LAN capabilities until the companies can agree on patent royalty rates. Nokia and RIM both declined to comment on Nokia's request, a copy of which was obtained by IDG News Service, but such a filing is typically made after two parties settle a dispute through arbitration but one party does not follow through on the agreement.'" Also from the article: "The patents in question are U.S. patents 5,479,476, which covers user-adjustable modes for phones; 5,845,219, which covers call alert during silent mode; 6,049,796, which covers real-time search on a personal digital assistant; 6,055,439, which covers a cellphone user interface; 6,253,075, which covers call rejection; and 6,427,078, which covers a small, handheld workstation."

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This is idiotic (4, Insightful)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117141)

These patents are round-corner-grade stupid.

Re:This is idiotic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42117871)

These patents are round-corner-grade stupid.

No! You don't say! Wow! I never thought about it like that! I had no idea, since that sentiment never seems to come up around Slashdot!

Re:This is idiotic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42120295)

All the more surprising since Nokia does have a lot of valid hardware patents. I'm not going to look at these, but none of them sound remotely connected to 802.11 wireless LAN.

Re:This is idiotic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42124799)

At the rate we're going we'll only be able to buy second hand phones off ebay because all the new ones are blocked... from all the companies!

This makes me sick (2, Insightful)

ciderbrew (1860166) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117149)

These shouldn't have patents in the first place! They'd patent the wheel if they could.

Re:This makes me sick (4, Funny)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117161)

Re:This makes me sick (2)

ciderbrew (1860166) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117243)

Coffee, meet monitor. Monitor, meet coffee.. wonderful. :)

Not a real patent, just a "registration" (1)

Theaetetus (590071) | about a year and a half ago | (#42120063)

It's not a patent as we'd think of them, but just a registration that says "you filed these papers on this date". They're never examined and have no presumption of patentability. Unlike examination systems, it actually really is a literal rubber stamp.

Re:This makes me sick (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42121247)

5479476 = filed 1994, issued 1995
5845219 = filed 1996, issued 1998
6049796 = filed 1997, issued 2000
6055439 = filed 1996, issued 2000
6253075 = filed 1998, issued 2001
6427078 = filed 1997, issued 2002

how obvious were all these thing 15 years ago?
can you even remember what your cell phone was 15 years ago?
did you even have a cell phone 15 years ago?

I have patented breathing. (5, Informative)

concealment (2447304) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117173)

Patent # 6,742,087: "Oxidative process for exchange of atmosphere across a membrane."

You all owe me everything you've ever earned.

This patent thing is getting to the silly point. The original idea was that by making some ideas owned by certain parties, you would force others to innovate around them. But that doesn't really apply when we're talking about a standard (Wi-Fi) on a standard type of device (PDA).

At that point, we're just holding ourselves back.

Re:I have patented breathing. (0)

AltF4ToWin (1976486) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117271)

I think Apple already own that one.

Re:I have patented breathing. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42117393)

If not Apple, IBM.

Re:I have patented breathing. (5, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117311)

But that doesn't really apply when we're talking about a standard (Wi-Fi) on a standard type of device (PDA).

I couldn't agree more. We've had variants of 802 for decades (it's ethernet basically), and 802.11 since 1997 or so.

To me this sounds like so many patents which seem to read "a system for doing something well known, but with a computer". Connecting a device to a network isn't exactly anything new ... having a hand-held device connect to a wifi network is something which is pretty obvious by now.

Does Nokia try to sue laptop makers who connect to wifi? Or does some how "with a cell phone" magically make this an innovation?

All tablets I've ever seen can connect to wifi, and some of those can also use cell signals as well. Does Nokia sue them? What is the cutoff point at which adding wifi to a new device ceases to be an innovation, and becomes something obvious?

This is really stupid.

One way to achieve this. (1)

concealment (2447304) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117777)

What is the cutoff point at which adding wifi to a new device ceases to be an innovation, and becomes something obvious?

I don't know. Maybe this is what we should ask our courts and congresscritters to decide?

Re:One way to achieve this. (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42118365)

I don't know. Maybe this is what we should ask our courts and congresscritters to decide?

Well, since the congresscritters (which Finland may or may not have) will do whatever the lobbyists pay them to do ... good luck with that.

With the head of the USPTO saying this whole mess is working fine [slashdot.org] ... I just don't see this insanity getting fixed anytime soon.

I'm bet if someone came to market with a dildo that was wifi enabled, someone would sue them for patent infringement -- despite both dildos and wifi being pretty common things (and, no, I have no idea of what you would use wifi for in conjunction with a dildo, something involving 'teledildonics' I'm sure). Admittedly, such things may already exist -- I don't want to know.

Re:One way to achieve this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42118995)

ACette would like to hear more about "teledildonics"...

Re:One way to achieve this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42120335)

i too am intrigued by this teledildonics, please go on...

Re:I have patented breathing. (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about a year and a half ago | (#42119375)

I think its time for Apple (and some others) to try some real innovation "With a red-hot poker up the posterior orifice!"

Re:I have patented breathing. (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year and a half ago | (#42119783)

Inventing a wireless network may be patentable.

Doing something wirelessly that is already done over wire networks should not be.

Re:I have patented breathing. (2)

Sarten-X (1102295) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117901)

Patent # 6,742,087: "Oxidative process for exchange of atmosphere across a membrane."

You all owe me everything you've ever earned.

Well, that depends entirely on the claims. What exactly is the "oxidative process" you've patented, and what part of the process would not be obvious to someone skilled in the art of biochemistry?

This patent thing is getting to the silly point. The original idea was that by making some ideas owned by certain parties, you would force others to innovate around them.

No, the original idea was to create an economic incentive to solve one's own design problems, rather than just waiting for someone else to do the hard work, then copying their result cheaply.

In the grand Slashdot tradition of bad analogies, consider a school where cheating on exams is forbidden, but students are allowed to openly sell their answers for whatever price they want. Now there's a financial motivation for a student to do their own work first, and sell it off. Of course, there are bullies trying to get something for nothing through sheer force, and there are also manipulators who will make false accusations to screw over someone else.

But that doesn't really apply when we're talking about a standard (Wi-Fi) on a standard type of device (PDA).

Okay. Now implement the standard RFC 1149 [ietf.org] on a cell phone. When you figure out how to fit the tiny birdcages into the phone, breed the tiny pigeons, and train them to seek a particular mobile device rather than their home, let me know. Since it's just combining two standards, surely it's not a problem if I copy the solution?

At that point, we're just holding ourselves back.

What's holding our technology back isn't the patent system. It's the abuse of combining patents and standards, with different license terms to different manufacturers of "standard" devices. What I'd like to see are reduced patent terms, based on the time-to-market for different industries. Software, for example, may only have a patent life of five years, because after that time the state of the art will have moved on, and the old program is obsolete. I'd also like to see a requirement for any patented standard to have a fixed license fee. If your technology becomes part of a published standard, you must allow licensing at a flat per-copy rate that is open for alteration by a suitable judge.

Re:I have patented breathing. (1)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about a year and a half ago | (#42119273)

At that point, we're just holding ourselves back.

That IS the purpose of patents. They exist only to prevent others from innovating based on generally available ideas. Or at least to prevent innovation except once every 20 years (in the US).

Sheesh, get with the program (not that you have a choice, anyway)!

Two bald men... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42117187)

...fighting over a comb

Re:Two bald men... (2)

Dupple (1016592) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117215)

The fight's over. RIM lost

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/28/us-nokia-rim-idUKBRE8AR08320121128 [reuters.com] [reuters.com]

Re:Two bald men... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117397)

Well, that's OK .. they can always apply to a US court and try to get them to tell the Swedes they're not allowed to enforce that.

I seem to recall that happening between Apple and Samsung.

Re:Two bald men... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42117483)

I think you mean MS and Motorola

Re:Two bald men... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42117891)

How would suing Swedes help RIM against Nokia?

(Hint: Fish have them)

Re:Two bald men... (1)

mu51c10rd (187182) | about a year and a half ago | (#42121879)

Do you mean apply in a Canadian court (RIM is Canadian) to tell the Finns (Nokia is based in FInland) they're not allowed to enforce that?

Not really (2)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117471)

RIM share price has been rising as journalists have been shown BB 10 and seen that it is pretty good. Windows 8 not so much. There is a fight on for no. 3 position in the phone wars, and Nokia now suddenly seems to be worried that it is going to lose.

Patent wars are increasingly a sign that the ideas fountain is drying up. Exactly like water wars...fight over old or weak patents, because we are not expecting to get many new ones.

Re:Not really (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about a year and a half ago | (#42123693)

Microsoft told Elop to abandon Qt because it was the choice of open source hippies.

RIM adopts Qt for BB10, so MS tells Elop to sue RIM.

Re:Two bald men... (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about a year and a half ago | (#42121361)

Yeah, my first thought was that Nokia had somehow patented "a method of using stupid managerial decisions for falling into obscurity with mobile devices".

Today RIM, Tomorrow Android. (1)

Lucky_Norseman (682487) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117245)

They have a patent on one mobile workstation and want to use it to own all possible mobile workstations (that is, all smartphones)
Android will surely be next.

Re:Today RIM, Tomorrow Android. (1)

jcfandino (2196932) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117479)

The difference is that tomorrow Microsoft will own Nokia's patents after it bankrupts.

Nokia Suing RIM? (4, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117357)

So is the point here just to funnel what little future these companies have into their lawyers pockets?

If you are circling the drain spending all your income on lawsuits seems unwise.

Re:Nokia Suing RIM? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117465)

If you are circling the drain spending all your income on lawsuits seems unwise.

Sadly, not if your lawyers can get your royalties in perpetuity.

This is a desperate act, but if it works, it gets them another revenue stream (assuming RIM doesn't keel over).

Re:Nokia Suing RIM? (1)

KiloByte (825081) | about a year and a half ago | (#42118077)

Microsoft using a has-been company for a proxy war? Sounds SCOish.

Just ask The SCO Group about that one (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | about a year and a half ago | (#42121367)

oh right you can't

legal tip when the guys on the other side of the table are nicknamed MOFO and Nazgul RUN NOW!!

Beggars Suing Beggars (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42117431)

This really sounds like a case of one beggar suing another beggar over the leftover scraps of already consumed rats. You know a company is almost on its last legs when it resorts to suing another company also in significant financial trouble. RIM hasn't posted a profit in the previous 3 quarters, while Nokia hasn't posted a profit in well over one year.

If Nokia needs assistance in helping them balance their books, maybe they should start by exiting the US market, since they make significantly more money in the European and Asian markets.

LMAO (4, Insightful)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | about a year and a half ago | (#42117627)

You know you are in dire straights (Nokia) when they are anticipating competition from RIM.

Re:LMAO (1)

Quakeulf (2650167) | about a year and a half ago | (#42118465)

Must... not... make... employment... at... RIM... joke...

Re:LMAO (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year and a half ago | (#42119863)

Or viewing RIM as having deep pockets at this point. They're relying on RIM's "on its last leg" status to settle out of court all that much faster to keep direly-needed sales flowing. Scummy patent troll behavior, independent of the validity of any legitimate patent issues.

Confused.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42119263)

Why do you need to block products that no one is buying anyway?

Sigh... (1)

TheP4st (1164315) | about a year and a half ago | (#42119289)

I cannot help but wonder how much all these insane lawsuits cost us customers for no real benefit whatsoever, beside lining the pockets of members of the legal profession.

Bottom Feeders (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42119545)

So these [now] bottom feeders are fighting each other just to stay alive apparently.

Very Microsoft of them (2)

kurt555gs (309278) | about a year and a half ago | (#42119841)

No more innovation! Law suits are the way of the future!

Bottom Feeders (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42119975)

So these bottom feeders are [now] fighting each other to stay alive? Where is SCO in all this?

Lumia 920 Rocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42120907)

Unfortunately their legal and financial advisors don't.

I knew it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42121669)

I posted that this would occur when Microsoft first succeeded injecting the Trojan Horse's ass Elop into Nokia. Not too many responded or even realized that this is really what was going on!

The real market target of windows phones is RIM business friendly phones and BBM. The chairs are flying again in Redmond and they are aimed straight at Canada.

All this after the fact patent bullshit has got to stop now, it is just a way to screw over the competition not actually innovate anymore!

Microsoft wants to bankrupt Rim and eat their lunch, this is obvious now. Nokia has just become a shell company for Microsoft plain and simple. Microsoft so far has not got involved in this other than to pay shills to do their dirty work everywhere the same way they did with the original "screw Google" campaign. And perhaps even backing the Java/Dalvik lawsuit round one against Google.

I hope that their products, distribution system, and shills all take a bath because of this kind of bullshit. Intellectual property rights being more valuable than product my ass Ballmer. I hope someone hits you with a chair as you go out the door next year after the board members can your ass for sinking the ship!

What has this got to do with GOOGLE you might ask? Well all the shills here and everywhere on the net that claim GOOGLE is really evil etc, etc, need not be afraid because Google has nothing on the 800 LB gorrilla in REDMOND when it comes to claiming to be benevolent! Microsoft is without a doubt the most malevolent corporate entity since Krup under Hiltler!

Setting a precedent (1)

JasonDT (550477) | about a year and a half ago | (#42122791)

RIM is a dying, easy to beat company... If they win, they set a precedent...

Technology's Bum Fights(tm) (1)

Yakasha (42321) | about a year and a half ago | (#42124941)

Title match tonight, RIM vs. Nokia.

Oh, c'mon... (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about a year and a half ago | (#42125303)

...kicking RIM when they're down. Who would bother to do that? Oh, wait, Nokia. This is like rats scuffling amongst the horses' hooves on a battlefield.

Stop BB10 to WP8's benefit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42125655)

It's obvious Nokia and Windows Phone 8 have no chance of taking market shares from iOS or Android, but RIM is a much easier target. Now comes BB10 and it's getting good reviews that may just be what will keep RIM from sinking. Nokia has to at least slow them down to give WP8 more time to get some traction; they have no choice they bet the company on that OS.

How much (2)

no-body (127863) | about a year and a half ago | (#42126515)

are they (Nokia) making on patent ownership?

That seems to be a major problem these days. They are no longer producing anything and making others pay for something which happened long time ago.

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possess the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lites his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.


That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement, or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property."
ThomasJefferson

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