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California Software Maker's Fortunes Track Dispute With Chinese Gov't

timothy posted about a year ago | from the shame-if-somethin'-was-to-happen dept.

China 94

concealment writes "For three years, a group of hackers from China waged a relentless campaign of cyber harassment against Solid Oak Software Inc., Milburn's family-owned, eight-person firm in Santa Barbara, California. The attack began less than two weeks after Milburn publicly accused China of appropriating his company's parental filtering software, CYBERsitter, for a national Internet censoring project. And it ended shortly after he settled a $2.2 billion lawsuit against the Chinese government and a string of computer companies last April."

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94 comments

Slashdot Deleted A Story (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129141)

Slashdot had a dupe on the front page about the -6 share sale. This isn't news. However, the story disappeared after a handful of comments. Is this a switch in policy? Has this ever happened before?

Re:Slashdot Deleted A Story (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129267)

It appears that the same tachyon pulse that allowed a 6 share buy order in the past on the Stockholm Exchange is spreading throughout the Internet and is now causing Slashdot to repost and delete stories.

If you haven't already done so, now would be a good time to reverse the polarity of your firewall.

Re:Slashdot Deleted A Story (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42131499)

They can also delete comments. They fucked up one time and the link appeared on printouts of comments from Firefox. Not sure why that was or if it still happens. I printed several pages of comments at -1 to go read on the shitter when my phone was almost dead. Plus reading comments on this site on a phone really sucks.

Every comment had a "Delete" link. Plus this bullshit flag for inappropriate posts... This site is shit, and the sad part is that many of you reading this message won't understand why this goes against everything slashdot (used to) stand for.

Can the U.S. cast the 1st stone here? (-1, Troll)

rmdingler (1955220) | about a year ago | (#42129197)

After all, SOS Clinton is on record as admitting to the use of cyber-terrorista against a Muslim recruiting site. In all likelihood, the new generation Bond will have a Cheetos-stained keyboard.

Re:Can the U.S. cast the 1st stone here? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129333)

How the fuck are those things even remotely equivalent?

Re:Can the U.S. cast the 1st stone here? (0)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about a year ago | (#42129495)

"Cast the first stone" if you haven't committed a sin. It would be a question of whether this "cyber-terrorista against a Muslim recruiting site" was a case of illegally harassing a legitimate organization, or whether it was a case of harassing a terrorist front. The latter would not be a "sin" and it would not be hypocritical.

I don't know which it would be, as you haven't provided a link.

Re:Can the U.S. cast the 1st stone here? (1)

mnooning (759721) | about a year ago | (#42130337)

A con man cheats an unwary person out of a dollar while a nearby pedestrian walks across the street without staying within the pedestrian lines. A nearby murderer yells "con man!" at one, and "jaywalker!" at the other. It can be argued that they are all lawbreakers and hence equally guilty of their respective crimes, but even a blind man can see a big difference amongst them.

ffs (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year ago | (#42129273)

Just because it's on the internet and not "irl" doesn't mean we can't go to war or at least start sanctions against a country attacking a company in the US. I'm suck if the government just ignoring it.

Re:ffs (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year ago | (#42130881)

But only if you can show it's actually a government attack. Hacking attacks usually have plausable deniability: From the perspective of the defenders, it's very hard to tell if you're facing a genuine attack from the Chinese government or merely a group of Chinese patriot hackers.

Re:ffs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42133279)

You want to starve Americans of virtually every consumer product, internet tough guy?

transcript (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129281)

After learning that Chinese hackers had eavesdropped on the Dalai Lama and his staff using their own computers,....

I have the transcript of that spying translated from Tibetan to Chinese to English:

*An hour of breathing* Possibly meditation.

HDL: "We must show compassion and love towards the Chinese invaders. And make it very clear - NO VIOLENCE!"

*mumbles of agreement*

*An hour of breathing sounds*

*grabled*love them. May they be free from dukka. Om mani padme hum. Om mani padme hum....Om mani padme hum....Om mani padme hum...Om mani padme hum....Om mani padme hum...Om mani padme hum

*goes on for an hour*

Chinese spy: "Those evil religious bastards! Exterminate!"

Re:transcript (2)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#42129423)

The Dalai Lama walks into a pizza joint and says, "Can you make me one with everything?"

(+1 Funny)

Re:transcript (1)

davydagger (2566757) | about a year ago | (#42135909)

Penn and Teller called bullshit on this one, it was great.

The Dali Lama, nor his regime were far worse than chineese communism, to the point chineese communism was a real improvement for everyone not the upper class of tibet. Not that Chineese communism is that great, but it was still a great step up from the previous feudalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs

tibetten insurgents waged a CIA backed violent campaign in the years before the China split with the USSR, and sided with the US, and started moving away from communism.

China has their own version of reality ... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129303)

Let's face it, China has their own version of reality, and it's one in which they're going to do whatever they want, however they want to.

South China sea, Tiananmen Square, human rights, their vision of how trade works, Tibet and the Dalai Lama -- if you read press releases which come out of China, it's clear that either their grip on reality is a little off, or they just bravely put forth whatever their official lie is and expect everyone else to take it at face value like their citizens do.

It's all rhtetoric and bullshit when they make a public statement.

I'm not in the least bit surprised that this kind of attack may have happened if someone pointed out that China was stealing from them. They're generally pretty aggressive about such things. And they're entirely indifferent about IP rights of anybody outside of their country.

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (0)

poetmatt (793785) | about a year ago | (#42129779)

what makes you think the US doesn't do the same? Secret interpretations of laws and the resultant function of the government is identical to China. No transparency = no accountability.

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42130665)

He didn't say anything about the US. For all you know he has the same view of it. When someone has an opinion of the US, do you also pipe up and say "Hey, what makes you think doesn't do the same thing?" I assume you don't, why is that?

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (0)

TheP4st (1164315) | about a year ago | (#42129803)

It's all rhtetoric and bullshit when they make a public statement

How is that different from 99% any other governments statements?

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42130727)

Here comes the damage control that would never get posted in articles about bullshit from the US for example. Seems like it's acceptable to criticize the actions of some countries by a certain moral standard, but for other countries "so what, others do it too" is enough to dismiss it and carry on. Why the inconsistency in judgement?

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42130385)

An aside from the merits or demerits of any action of the Chicoms, you should know that there is no such thing as "IP rights." Complaining about someone being "entirely indifferent about IP rights of anybody" makes about as much sense as complaining about someone being completely indifferent about the Easter Bunny.

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about a year ago | (#42132115)

It's the Marxist mindset. That shit doesn't just get erased from culture overnight. It will drag on until its last gasping breath in fact.

"Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." Joseph Stalin

You see it in the media, in the schools, and from public officials. China is sorta waking up from this bad dream. Meanwhile, America is living this bad dream in false lucidity.

I should've taken the blue pill instead...

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (1)

ultranova (717540) | about a year ago | (#42133369)

It's the Marxist mindset. That shit doesn't just get erased from culture overnight. It will drag on until its last gasping breath in fact.

"Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." Joseph Stalin

And as you and all the other posters blaming anything bad on Marxism, communism, socialism, unions, etc. demonstrate, brainwashing works perfectly well for capitalist ends too. Perhaps even better, because you can appeal to people's pride - everyone is better than average at their job, the same as everyone's a better than average driver - to get them to work against their own interests.

And no, "that shit" is never going to be erased from any culture, because it's far too useful for whoever has or desires power. Feed people the right mixture of daydreams and nightmares, and there's little if anything you can't get them to do, allow, or ignore. But at least no one will ever lack scapegoats to blame for their troubles.

</cynicism>

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42133065)

Sad part is that when they get more and more money... they are more and more able to enforce their vision. Now... Who wants a cheap TV set now?

We had better start learning to be self sufficient and not train the rest of the planet to do our ... oh... never mind.... Its cheeper!!!

Re:China has their own version of reality ... (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year ago | (#42140233)

It's all rhtetoric and bullshit when they make a public statement.

So... It's like most of the western media, only they are more honest about who is in control?

And these chinese activities are news beacuse...? (1)

chelip (890174) | about a year ago | (#42129353)

Its not news that when the chinese goverment doesnt like someone the hackers in China will start an "independent" atack.

Re:And these chinese activities are news beacuse.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129587)

But it's still an interesting story to read. Just because a hurricane went through NYC, it's still news even despite Katrina flooded New Orleans years earlier; or that hurricanes pass through the south all the time.

Govt. corruption and murders also happens. They make it into the news.

You can turn off your I've-got-the-world-figured-out attitude now.

cyber sitter ? (2)

dgharmon (2564621) | about a year ago | (#42129359)

An Internet security company that gets hacked by opening an email attachment .. I don't believe it ! Lines of code, what lines of code, opening webcams, black tape, is this some kind slashdot joke?

Did your RTFA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129525)

Its filtering not security his firm offers...nothing nefarious about it.

TFA: sales dropped by 55% (1)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year ago | (#42130659)

Wouldn't loss of sales have more to do with all the crappy reviews for this product? Cnet user reviews have been destroying the thing since 2004 -- five years before "the Chinese" supposedly crashed his online sales.

Re:cyber sitter ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42130783)

Content filtering and network security aren't really the same is it? Is it also unbelievable that a store greeter couldn't stop a robbery?

Re:cyber sitter ? (1)

flimflammer (956759) | about a year ago | (#42132627)

Internet security company? Since when is child nanny software to keep kids away from porn known as security software?

Oh For Christ Sakes (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129447)

From TFA:

"It looked like a routine message from Milburn, so DiPasquale clicked on the attachment, realizing only later that the e-mail address was a couple of letters off. Solid Oak employees received more bogus e-mails over the next few days, setting off alarm bells."

There is no advanced hackery here. Just the head of the company's daughter clicking on an email attachment by mistake, then chaos ensuijng. Thats when i stopped reading.

Warfare with China is inevitable. (4, Insightful)

concealment (2447304) | about a year ago | (#42129465)

Every big country wants to be top dog, or a superpower.

China has wanted this for some time.

They fought a number of proxy wars against the USA, including the Korean War and the Vietnam War. In the former, Chinese troops met American troops in combat. In the latter, China provided weapons, equipment, aid and advisors to the North Vietnamese communist armies.

China is now building F-22 clones [dailytech.com] for its airforce, has a new carrier for its Navy [cnn.com] , is waging constant and active cyber warfare against the US [bbc.co.uk] , and is expanding its trade strategy to dominate the US [chinadaily.com.cn] .

The war is cold now, but eventually it will be hot. Hold onto your hats.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (1)

Trepidity (597) | about a year ago | (#42129611)

I'm not sure why that would make a direct war, at least, be inevitable. The USSR and US had a cold war for decades without actually ending up in an inevitable war, though they did fight proxy wars in places like Afghanistan.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129731)

And Korea. And Vietnam.

The USSR collapsed halfway through. (4, Insightful)

concealment (2447304) | about a year ago | (#42129735)

The USSR and US had a cold war for decades without actually ending up in an inevitable war, though they did fight proxy wars in places like Afghanistan.

Mainly because the USSR collapsed from within at the end of that time period. China has privatized, thus is not likely to the type of collapse that afflicted the USSR.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129811)

Meanwhile, our collapse is now mathematically impossible to avoid.

Please elaborate. (3, Interesting)

concealment (2447304) | about a year ago | (#42130369)

Meanwhile, our collapse is now mathematically impossible to avoid.

Since all of us live here, it's incumbent upon us to avoid collapse if possible.

What kind of collapse are you thinking of? Gibbon and Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire?

Or more like Jared Diamond's Easter Island case study?

It seems Joseph Tainter's The Collapse of Complex Societies might be a good guide, but I'd prefer to hear the math or theories you're using to predict this.

This message is neither agreement nor disagreement with the propositions you have advanced.

Re:Please elaborate. (1)

Raenex (947668) | about a year ago | (#42198513)

I'd prefer to hear the math or theories you're using to predict this

Probably the same math you used to predict that a shooting war with China is inevitable -- none.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129883)

I can't say exactly what will happen but war might be avoided when the Chinese gay horde start their insurrection. The result of China's "One family one child" policy.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

iserlohn (49556) | about a year ago | (#42129899)

Actually, one of the main factors causing the USSR to collapse was that we forced them to spend too much of their GDP on defense.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (2)

Alex Belits (437) | about a year ago | (#42130305)

Actually, one of the main factors causing the USSR to collapse was that we forced them to spend too much of their GDP on defense.

That's a bullshit propaganda talking point that contradicts pretty much everything known about USSR GDP, defense, or economic significance (or, to be precisely, lack of one) of USSR dissolution.

We forced them? Really. (1)

concealment (2447304) | about a year ago | (#42130405)

Good answer:

That's a bullshit propaganda talking point that contradicts pretty much everything known about USSR GDP, defense, or economic significance (or, to be precisely, lack of one) of USSR dissolution.

I'd like to add that even if we egged them on, we did not "force" them to outspend their GDP in making military gear. They chose to do that.

Further, from what I saw, the USSR was massively unstable in every other way possible. Vast corruption, couldn't produce enough food, total lack of consumer goods, technologically backward, politically unstable and unresponsive chain of command.

I think when they shot down a civilian airliner and then claimed it was spying [history.com] , while importing American wheat to avoid starving themselves, we should have known the USSR was circling the bowl.

Re:We forced them? Really. (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about a year ago | (#42131297)

I think when they shot down a civilian airliner and then claimed it was spying [history.com], while importing American wheat to avoid starving themselves, we should have known the USSR was circling the bowl.

US is a mostly-agrarian country that exports food to most of the world -- does it mean that everyone is "avoiding starving themselves"?

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

tehcyder (746570) | about a year ago | (#42130701)

Actually, one of the main factors causing the USSR to collapse was that we forced them to spend too much of their GDP on defense.

That's a bullshit propaganda talking point that contradicts pretty much everything known about USSR GDP, defense, or economic significance (or, to be precisely, lack of one) of USSR dissolution.

No, you're not really correct, as both the USSR and US spent far too much on unnecessarily paranoid defence, the US just had a much stronger economy at the time and could also borrow money more easily when needed to fund it. Oh no, that's now isn't it when The Great Satan doesn't really exist any more.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about a year ago | (#42131363)

No, you're not really correct, as both the USSR and US spent far too much on unnecessarily paranoid defence, the US just had a much stronger economy at the time and could also borrow money more easily when needed to fund it. Oh no, that's now isn't it when The Great Satan doesn't really exist any more.

USSR economy was one giant nonprofit. It could not "spend" anything other than natural resources and labor -- and it had both in abundance.
US could produce enough weapons to conquer the world ten times already if it really needed that (it didn't), but it has to pay for military-industrial complex profits, thus weakening the rest of its economy. It's a problem very much specific to US-style military-industrial complex, no one else has it, and this is why no one else builds giant amounts of weapons like US does.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

arcite (661011) | about a year ago | (#42131881)

Are you dumb or something? The US is the only country that can print its own money to infinity. It is literally impossible for the US to default, unlike say, USSR.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about a year ago | (#42133613)

No, I am not dumb, you are. Dollar is only worth anything because it is used for international oil trade. Increased amount of dollars outside US will mean that oil prices (and therefore prices of absolutely everything else) will adjust proportionally, so total value of all currency will stay the same no matter how much of it is printed.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (2)

Trepidity (597) | about a year ago | (#42131307)

Strangely, despite typically being advanced by the U.S. right (since it gives credit to Reagan's defense policies), it's not a position you'd think free-market advocates would actually take, because it implies that the USSR's economy would've worked fine, if only we hadn't forced it into collapse by making them overspend on defense. Do the people making that argument really believe that's the case? They don't think the USSR's economy was riddled with insurmountable problems even absent the defense spending?

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

sjames (1099) | about a year ago | (#42138541)

And more to the point, what does that say about tricking the people into a protracted war in Iraq?

Bullshit propaganda? (1)

arcite (661011) | about a year ago | (#42131795)

Oh come now. If you going to insult the OP, at least back up your rhetoric with something coherent. I think Russia is much happier being a middling power now made of of a handful of oligarchs. Much more manageable.

Re:Bullshit propaganda? (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about a year ago | (#42133705)

Oh come now. If you going to insult the OP, at least back up your rhetoric with something coherent.

If there could possibly be an argument against my claims, coherency isn't it.

I think Russia is much happier being a middling power now made of of a handful of oligarchs. Much more manageable.

And that's completely baseless. Oligarchs are interested in increase of their power at the expense of other oligarchs, not unlike your corporations' leaders -- they are self-selected by this trait. Communist leaders of all levels in post-Stalin time knew that all their needs will be met through a system of privileges, but they can not fight each other. That created disincentive for pretty much all truly destructive behavior, and now it is gone.

China collapsing, or not? (2)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | about a year ago | (#42130079)

China has privatized, thus is not likely to the type of collapse that afflicted the USSR.

Why not? There are many, many signs of social tension within China. Its non-democratic government, the big gap between rich and poor people (and rich and poor areas), issues like Tibet, supression of dissidents, etc, etc. Much like the things going on in the former USSR.

Nor do I see much signs of these social tensions getting any less. More likely (IMHO), increasing. The information age we live in might give a push here, citizens wising up & refusing to take things any longer. So is it hard to imagine that at some point, China (as a single nation) would collapse, and turn into a number of smaller countries, like what happened with the former USSR? Maybe yes, maybe not, I wouldn't bet my money either way. China != USSR, and Chinese citizens might behave very different in the same conditions as former USSR citizens, but there's no denying there are many similarities here.

If that would happen, of course it wouldn't (immediately) make China go away as a superpower. But if there was one agenda for achieving particular goals, that would turn into many different agenda's trying to achieve many different things. Any individual one with less power behind it than what China can manage today.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about a year ago | (#42133543)

Is the USA, if the population gets pissed off, we vote out the incumbents. In China, the population has no such outlet, which may result in mass riots, which almost happened in 2008 due to factory slow-downs before the gov'ts huge stimulus program. China has had many revolutions in its history such that there is no reason to think that pattern stopped.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42135823)

Why couldn't they also vote out the encumbents?

You DO know they have elections in China, at the same level of quasi-democratic status as the US? The main difference is in the US there are two parties towing more or less the same line (the line the people support), in China there is one party towing the line (the line people support). There are still multiple candidates in every election, the reason people aren't voting out the communists is because they largely support that ideology, whether they are right to or not.

Re:The USSR collapsed halfway through. (1)

moneybabylon (2226376) | about a year ago | (#42141121)

Actually, many people are sounding the alarm that China in its current form will collapse.

My own experience is that I am a businessman in China, and I listen to and read what other people say.

The Chinese Communist Party has made current China and its Chinese without any morals or loyalty. It is common knowledge everyone's goal there is to get rich as quickly as possible using corruptions and cheating and outright violence, so that they can get foreign passports for themselves and their immediate familys to flee China. (which every high government officials and rich person have done successfully)

What this means in business is that there is no long-term incentive for anything e.g. basic research, integrity, trust, loyalty to business partners or companies etc.

Therefore for foreign companies trying to do business in China it has become "untenable" because after you have invested money you find your assets and business stolen by your employees and people all around you, money extorted by local officials, and whole business taken from you literally by the state.

Ofcourse, for such "business model" without any core value or laws it won't last forever.

It can manage for a period, with central planning, mass everyone to modernize and spark high growth to the untrained eyes. But ultimately it is borrowing from the future and inevitably the whole system will come collapsing down like a house of cards.

Because like a house of cards, there is no collective rules and regulations, no moral guidance, no incentive for long-term common goals.

In the near future (no one can predict exactly when) China's economy will run into a wall (if not already because official figures surely won't tell you). At that stage things become really interesting with the Chinese Communist Party, because they only thing they can offer the people in return for ruthless dictatorship i.e. high economic growth, is no longer available.

It will be a place of 1.3 billion very angry people who are set loose. (they are already very angry right now with massive social unrest all across the board)

It may not happen tomorrow, or next week, but it is bound to happen because what is outlined above is just basic classic human conditions.

Warfare with China is impossible (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129961)

China wants nothing to do with a war with the west. Unless they're absolutely batshit insane. Building F-22 clones? Good. The US has 187 active (as in built, with many hours logged to test the hell out of components and with experienced pilots behind the stick). They've got an aircraft carrier? A single one? Golly. Wonderful. The US has 11, plus 9 amphibious assault craft that can act as carriers (plus 6 more in the hands of NATO allies). Trade strategy? You mean you think "attack the nation(s) that buy most of the cheap shit we make here" is a good strategy? China has a powerful economy without a doubt. It is still dwarfed by the US economy and will continue to be for some time, if not forever.

The only chink in the armour is Cyberwarfare. It's a possible problem, because China at least seems to be well ahead in that department. However it's of questionable value - cyberwarefare has never been tested on the ground. The closest we've gotten a full on cyber-assault during military operations was Anonymous attacking Israel during Pillar of Heaven and that didn't seem to do much.

Look, China is many things. It is a powerful, influential nation. It is not the USA, however. It does not have the economic power of the USA. It does not have the military resources of the USA - bodies for the army, yes, but precious little elsewhere. It does not have the allies the USA has - China opens warfare on the USA and you will see a vast coalition of western nations line up to knock China back to the stone age. Who comes to China's aid? Russia?

Re:Warfare with China is impossible (-1, Troll)

Alex Belits (437) | about a year ago | (#42130335)

Congratulations, you are a true American patriot. And an idiot, but the former implies the latter.

Re:Warfare with China is impossible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42131719)

And your UID of 437 implies your a life-less fag?

Re:Warfare with China is impossible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42132007)

China has a powerful economy without a doubt. It is still dwarfed by the US economy and will continue to be for some time, if not forever.

At current rate of growth, the Chinese economy with overtake the American economy in 6 years.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42130565)

North Vietnam was a client of the Soviets, not the Chinese.

China invaded Vietnam in 1979.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (1)

poity (465672) | about a year ago | (#42131253)

To be fair, China was extremely paranoid in those decades after the war, as was everyone else, and concepts like "domino effect" and buffer zone were in the minds of every government that survived. You're right that there's a resurgence of nationalism with popular calls for military action, and plenty of hardliners who use "hegemony" as a curse word thrown at the US, but secretly wish for one of their one in East Asia. But understand that's not China acting in unison. There are factions just like anywhere else, with voices of reason that limit what the hardliners can accomplish. And I don't think this cold war will get hot either. Like the US-Soviet cold war, internal forces will dictate the winner and loser, and I'm quite certain that the democratic country will again have the advantage.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42132247)

This must be one of the dumbest "Insightful" comments ever.

China is nationalistic - but inwardly.
US is nationalistic - but outwardly.

To most Chinese, China *is* the top dog and US doesn't matter. Your comment is as insightful as saying in 1900 that US vs. UK war is inevitable because US wants to be the top dog and UK is in the way. In case of China, China hasn't really been an aggressor in any external conflict for quite some time.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (1)

ub3r n3u7r4l1st (1388939) | about a year ago | (#42134011)

Look at the entire Chinese history, with the exception of the Yuan Dynasty, it was all about being attacked by external forces. The opium war broke out because the Chinese people wants to stop importing opium, resulting in numerous counts of unequal treaties.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about a year ago | (#42132563)

No, not really. China's worst fear is (ready for it)...CHINA! Russia, India, and Pakistan are a close 2nd. If anything, China is trying to maintain unified cohesion of the countryside. It's why the "Harmonious Society" mantra is always espoused by the CCP. They can not risk cracks in the idea of unification.

The US to the CCP and PLC is an annoyance in that it stands in its way from world domination (if they ever had such a dream). But even they know the US is not a direct threat. They saw how we've handled ourselves with Russia, and our continued conflict in the Middle East. Effectively, China knows that America can fight with either kid gloves or rain fire of fury only to be matched by God Almighty Himself. Dragons and Eagles don't fight well.

Side note. The CCP is (more or less) a three legged stool made up of neo-Maoists (communists), neo-liberal reformers (capitalists) and neo-Confucians (morality). This wasn't always the case, but change has been happening.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42132847)

Rain of fury? US has never had any REAL warfare on its territory. US is nothing more than a paper tiger, a naked king.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42138687)

Two nuclear bombs used, massive military complex, a Navy to project power via aircraft carriers, currently engaged in multiple theaters of wars in the Middle East, and a citizenry having enough small arms that meet or exceed that military capability of most small nations.

Now imagine if America did face "REAL" warfare! Buddy, you don't have a fucking clue!!! 911 was just an itch. Don't fuck with America. To do so would be the End of the World as you know it. God help humanity!

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (1)

Turmio (29215) | about a year ago | (#42136403)

I beg to offer a different perspective. During the Cold War era the economies of the super powers we're independent of each other. Actually they were actively rivaling each other. The relationship between The US and China is quite some different. They are economically so interlinked and in bed with each other that starting a war would mean literal suicide for both nations as we know them currently. Suicide by not nuking each other (China doesn't have the capability to nuke the whole North American continent, they would've to settle "only" nuking the US allies South Korea and Japan out of this world while the US could certainly nuke China off the map) but by causing internal revolt by the people in both countries.

In the US the people would not be able to enjoy the relatively comfortable lifestyle based on consumerism that has lasted for last 70 years or so anymore as it's all based on global import of goods, China leading the pack of exporters of course. Government that deprived the people from this privilege would soon be thrown out by democratic process if the nation is strong enough internally that it can function by its most deeply rooted ideals even during really serious war time (China would be quite a different beast to beat than Saddam or a few thousand bearded men living in the barren mountains) or if not, then by force. In China internal revolt is maybe more difficult due to the authority-respecting/fearing mindset of the people established by authoritarian governmental mechanisms that have been in place in a form or another for thousands years there. But maybe crushing of the humble Chinese dream (i.e. moving from the countryside to the ever expanding megacities of the coastal area in order to seek better life), that is completely facilitated by the fact that China acts as the factory of the cheap goods for the world, something would happen. And that something would certainly not be in the interest of the current ruling dynasty of the long chain of dynasties that have been ruling China like forever.

So if the economical ties would be cut down by the war, both societies would probably either just collapse as nothing would work as it used to be, or better, leaders who would end the madness would gain the power. But no-one would know what would be the end result of this global turmoil. Global, because we're all in the same global economical boat. The world is quite a different place now than in the 70's. It's much smaller and balanced. Like it or not, The US is not the same super power it used to be when the world was very polarized as The US and USSR were trying to divide the world into two factions ruled by the said true super powers. The economical downward spiral of The US, the rise of China, India, Brazil, Indonesia and other big emerging countries, re-rise of the Russia led by the Putin's mob clan and the unification and even federalization process on-going in Europe means that we've become much more converged globally as instead of two superior powers compared to others we have a number of more equal powers with significant global influence (economically and politically, not militarily, The US is the only nation left with true military presence globally, too bad they can't afford to put it in use anymore in any significant campaigns even if needed).

Why China is arming then? To counter the strategic shift in The US policies, of course. It's no secret that The US is shifting its military focus from the Atlantic side of its home continent to the Pacific side, and at the other shore, there's China. In fact they've been very open about it. And why wouldn't they? If the global economical balance is shifting from West to East, the troops should follow of course. The flow of goods must be secured. How ever, it doesn't mean that the armadas with ever increasing weight in steel and number of guns and missiles patroling the same waters have to encounter each other in an inevitable hot war. The troops are there to secure that no power is dominating too much. It's a pissing contest, basically.

Nukes are not holding the status quo anymore, trade links and economy is.

Re:Warfare with China is inevitable. (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year ago | (#42140253)

Every big country wants to be top dog, or a superpower.

You are projecting your own desires onto the Chinese. I don't see any evidence that they want to dominate. They just want to stop the US dominating. They recognize that there needs to be a counterbalance.

Look at me, I'm a hacker! (1)

McGregorMortis (536146) | about a year ago | (#42129579)

I write lots of that "hidden computer code known as comments." I'm so l33t.

Watch how easily I launch an attack: /* format c: */

See how that worked?

Re:Look at me, I'm a hacker! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42129833)

You bastard!

Re:Look at me, I'm a hacker! (1)

Sentrion (964745) | about a year ago | (#42130183)

You laugh, but my computer crashes every time I read your comment. Dang it! Happened again! WTF!?!

Choice of OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42130205)

Well of course the hackers got through! You're running your entire company infrastructure on WindowA!

Value of IP (2)

blind biker (1066130) | about a year ago | (#42130243)

I have a lot of sympathy for Solid Oak Software, I truly do. I don't even say that, if I were in their initial situation, I would have done anything different from what they've done.

So, said all that, it is extremely important to note, from this incident, that IP is ultimately pointless. Clinging to it will torpedo the countries' economies that depend on it. Sooner or later, countries that have enough muscle (China, and to an extent, Russia) will just say "fuck it" and not care about the hissy fits from the MAFIAA. I mean, WTF is the US going to do? Not buy Russian oil and minerals? Not have their electronics made in China? We all know that there would be much grandstanding (like, for instance, with human rights issues) but nothing more will be done. This is inevitable, like osmosis.

China defaulting (1)

Rick Zeman (15628) | about a year ago | (#42130621)

"In U.S. District Court in California, the presiding judge declared China in default in the lawsuit for failing to respond."

I guess the victim should show up with the sheriff and put China up for auction?

Incompetence? (2)

Vasheron (1750022) | about a year ago | (#42130643)

It seems as if these people knew their network was infected, resorted to bandaid solutions (like putting tape over webcams), and then continued to wonder why their systems were failing. You simply cannot trust a system once it's been compromised. It may have been a real hassle to rebuild all the company's servers, but ultimately less costly since business wouldn't be interrupted as much. Thankfully, they won the lawsuit so it doesn't matter any more.

Re:Incompetence? (1)

hhw (683423) | about a year ago | (#42132677)

Hosting their Internet facing servers at the office, behind a sonicwall firewall, is also a recipe for disaster in general let alone when being attacked. If they had hosted their servers in a proper data centre with DDoS mitigation services, the 'hackers' would have had a much harder time taking their servers offline.

A shitty country with shitty people (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42131505)

You know, if the Chinese spent as much time coming up with original technology as they do ripping off hard-working Americans and then (apparently) getting all angry when they're called out on their bullshit, they might actually be able to make their country into not a third-world shithole. Just a thought.

"The West" is at fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42140133)

"The West" is at fault because it's "The West".
- China

TheMirageMall (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42142421)

Get all the best and latest software at http://www.themiragemall.com/computers/

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