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NPD Group Analysts Say Windows 8 Sales Sluggish

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the whiffling-through-the-tulgey-wood dept.

Operating Systems 269

Nerval's Lobster writes "While Microsoft claims it's sold 40 million Windows 8 licenses in the month since launch—a more rapid pace than Windows 7—new data from research firm The NPD Group suggests that isn't helping sales of actual Windows devices, which, in its estimation, are down 21 percent from last year. Desktops dropped 9 percent year-over-year, while notebooks fell 24 percent. 'After just four weeks on the market, it's still early to place blame on Windows 8 for the ongoing weakness in the PC market,' Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis at The NPD Group, wrote in a Nov. 29 statement attached to the data. 'We still have the whole holiday selling season ahead of us, but clearly Windows 8 did not prove to be the impetus for a sales turnaround some had hoped for.'" That seems to match the public grumbling of Acer and Asus about early sales. And though these figures exclude Surface sales, the newly announced prices on for new Windows 8 Pro-equipped Surface tablets might not endear them to anyone. Have you (or has your business?) moved to Windows 8?

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businesses? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134629)

I know mine will never use Windows 8

Say What You Like About Win8 (5, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134781)

It solves one of the worst and most persistent security issues with the Internet.

With the introduction of IE 10 on Windows 8, Microsoft relieves users from the threat of browser-based attacks, by making the system unusable for web-browsing.

Your overconfidence is astounding (5, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134935)

While IE10 has indeed be made Windows 8 completely unsuitable for user web-browsing, the architectural choice of moving IE10 into the Windows 8 kernel has left a security hole of goatse.cx proportions.
Windows 8: where all Al Gore's Internet can root for success!

Re:Your overconfidence is astounding (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135097)

Windows 8: where all Al Gore's Internet can root for success!

What you did:






It's there, and I see it.

Re:Say What You Like About Win8 (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135201)

It solves one of the worst and most persistent security issues with the Internet.

With the introduction of IE 10 on Windows 8, Microsoft relieves users from the threat of browser-based attacks, by making the system unusable for web-browsing.

LOL...well put!!

Someone mod this one +1 Insightful too to back up those "Funny:"s.....

:)

Re:Say What You Like About Win8 (1, Interesting)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135275)

IE10 is actually faster than chrome and firefox

Re:Say What You Like About Win8 (4, Insightful)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135507)

I don't give a damn how fast IE's render engine can spit out a page - when the whole affair is decked in usability handicaps. I am reminded of the Vonnegut story, Harrison Bergeron [wikipedia.org] .

When you eliminate the 3 pop-ups and the blocking warning (1 click each) that interfere with you actually loading the element or even whole URL that you actually wanted.

There's no way this is a good experience. "Are You Sure" dialogue boxes are good for deleting files. Their use in IE10/Win8 feels like someone from preventing you from making a left turn in your automobile. "Are you sure you want to turn left?"

Yes, but that's now 3 blocks behind me!

When it comes down to it, this is just another damning indictment of Microsoft's Windows 8 travesty. Windows is now a barrier to the effective delivery of applications - that one formerly bought Windows to deliver.

Re:Say What You Like About Win8 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135509)

IE10 is actually faster than chrome and firefox

[citation needed]

Re:businesses? (4, Insightful)

UnderCoverPenguin (1001627) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134943)

We skipped Vista and only started using Win7 in March of this year. Similarly, we started using XP in 2004. If we follow the pattern, we might be using Win 9 about 3 years after it becomes available - assuming we stay with MS Windows.

Re:businesses? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135179)

Yeah. Lots of organizations skipped Vista. And I believe many will skip Windows 8. Quotes from a recent customer's IT bunch: "Vista?" "What's that?", "There's no such thing" "Does not exist"... It's either Windows XP or Windows 7. Heck they have one Windows XP 64 bit machine but no Vista (or Windows 8).

Just like Vista there may be many Windows 8 license sales, but that does not mean many organizations will actually be installing Vista or Windows 8. See: http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx [microsoft.com]
Microsoft can say they sold Windows 8. The customer installs Windows 7. Both sides are happy.

No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134663)

Have you (or has your business?) moved to Windows 8?

No. Windows 8 appears to be shit. Why would I want to switch to it?

It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (4, Insightful)

paulsnx2 (453081) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134667)

It is the secure boot technology. I don't want to buy a laptop or desktop that does not easily let me use the Operating System of my own build and choice.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (1)

hodet (620484) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134697)

You are not the average user driving sales. Joe Shmoe doesn't give a crap about that. Windows XP/Vista/7 still work fine for Joe.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (1, Interesting)

Ynot_82 (1023749) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134761)

But the local computer shop or data recovery firm sure cares, as secure boot eliminates their ability to bypass windows to recover data direct from storage.

Joe Shmoe will care that the latest virus to infest his system leaves his data corrupted and secure boot prevents any remedial actions.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (1)

Applekid (993327) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134863)

Joe Shmoe doesn't even know what a regular boot is, let alone secure boot.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (4, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134877)

Why would it prevent pulling the drive and hooking it up via usb ?
Are they also encrypting the entire volume?

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134923)

Warranty.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134991)

Who voids the warranty for pulling a drive?

Dell does not, nor does HP.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (1)

Richy_T (111409) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135369)

Just as a data point however, when I pulled the actual drive from the enclosure on an external drive, I apparently voided the warranty and WD does not honor any warranty on the bare drive. Since I had to remove it in order to recover the data, I wasn't too happy and have resolved never to buy an actual external drive in the future.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (5, Informative)

vux984 (928602) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134971)

But the local computer shop or data recovery firm sure cares, as secure boot eliminates their ability to bypass windows to recover data direct from storage.

That is FUD, lies, and misinformation.

a) secure boot can be easily disabled within bios/uefi on all x86 units, which is all current Windows 8 desktops, all current windows 8 laptops, and a big chunk of the windows 8 tablets too.* So if you drag in a working windows 8 pc, they can boot their favorite live cd with minimal effort.

b) Worst case they'd pull the hard drive out of the defective unit and just extract the data directly. Half the data recovery jobs a computer shop deals with are due to hardware failure where the laptop or desktop is fried, and pulling the hard drive out is the smart thing to do if the rest of the PC hardware doesn't work or is failing or is unreliable.

Secureboot is nearly irrelevant in this scenario.

Really, the only people secureboot currently impacts in any non-trivial way are people who want to dual boot linux and windows 8 on the same PC.

* WinRT tablets are the exception, but those devices are very much ipad market product, and data recovery would proceed along the same lines it does for an ipad. Can you boot an ipad up off your favorite linux live CD to recover the data? Of course not. Same thing.

Joe Shmoe will care that the latest virus to infest his system leaves his data corrupted and secure boot prevents any remedial actions.

Joe Shmoe doesn't think that far ahead.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135487)

I'm Joe Schmoe and I don't like all of these comments about what I think, what I like, and what I will do.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135011)

The recovery bootable OS will pay the whole $99 (and that's a one time fee not per user) and get a perfectly valid boot key.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134701)

Really? Most people I've talked to (normal people, not neckbeards) have refused to upgrade to Windows 8 because it's incomprehensible. Go on Youtube and look at the number of hits people are getting on "x relative tries to use Windows 8..." These aren't completely computer illiterate people (some of them are I'm sure), yet compared to what they're used to, Windows 8 is impossible to navigate. It's as if Microsoft dived head first into the tablet market without checking to see if there was any water in the pool first.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135253)

I was just at Staples to buy some printer paper and tested the Win8 devices there. I think the basic flaw is that you can't tell what you are getting. Is it a metro-only thingy or a dual-7/8 thingy. And when you use it, it switches between metro and win-7 interface without any warning. I think regular users will be completely baffled. I was also the only one looking at them.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (0)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135289)

Windows 8 isnt impossible to navigate, its actually easier.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (3, Informative)

JohnFen (1641097) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135479)

For you. For a lot of people, even very computer literate people (developers and power users), it's substantially more difficult.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (5, Interesting)

timholman (71886) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135385)

Really? Most people I've talked to (normal people, not neckbeards) have refused to upgrade to Windows 8 because it's incomprehensible. Go on Youtube and look at the number of hits people are getting on "x relative tries to use Windows 8..." These aren't completely computer illiterate people (some of them are I'm sure), yet compared to what they're used to, Windows 8 is impossible to navigate. It's as if Microsoft dived head first into the tablet market without checking to see if there was any water in the pool first.

My own observation - two weeks ago, I went to the mall to check out the iPad mini (wife is thinking about one for Christmas). Microsoft had rented a kiosk to show Surface tablets not 200 feet away from the Apple store (gotta admire the chutzpah).

In the Apple store, I saw a dozen people playing with iPads or iPad minis, with Apple employees hovering nearby in case of questions. People were tapping and gesturing and doing what you'd expect on an iPad, almost entirely without any assistance from the employees.

Outside, about a half dozen people were clustered around the Surface kiosk talking with Microsoft employees. The difference? The Microsoft employees were having to show the users what to do, step-by-step . No one seemed to be able to just pick one up and make it work. Everyone needed help. The contrast was absolutely remarkable.

Windows 8 is the new Vista. I expect to see the Metro GUI turned into an option for Windows 9, and more heads to roll at Microsoft.

Ballmer's last stand (4, Insightful)

Tablizer (95088) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134767)

It is the secure boot technology

Because of this sales failure, Ballmer is about receive "boot" technology...

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134833)

What's the adoption rate of Linux on those windows tablets?

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (3, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134977)

If you have UEFI you can just disable this, you know. Then you can install any OS you want. Or you can install Windows 8 on any BIOS equipped computer. UEFI secure boot is not a requirement.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135301)

Not yet..

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (1)

Dan667 (564390) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135435)

then why is UEFI on the PC at all?

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (2)

Algae_94 (2017070) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135525)

Because, AFAIK, no malware can disable UEFI yet. I believe the entire point is to prevent malware from infecting the boot process.

Re:It isn't Windows 8 I find to be the barrier... (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134999)

For anyone who builds their own OSes secure boot is not an issue.

Cheap Win8 on Newegg (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134681)

That's why I got email specials from Newegg with Win8 Full Version 64bit something like $70
M$ should close the door. Nobody is using their product anymore unless forced out on companies or comes with new laptop.

i installed windows 8 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134685)

and used it to download fresh windows 7 ISOs...

And NOW (0)

CHRONOSS2008 (1226498) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135291)

your boned cause the boot record is locked ot only allow winodws 8
SMART move exlax....

As usual with even-numbered Windows releases... (4, Insightful)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134689)

... my business is treating it as a minor, avoidable catastrophe and reacting accordingly.

Re:As usual with even-numbered Windows releases... (4, Funny)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134831)

Overheard from our infrastructure manager: "Well, we skipped Vista..."

Re:As usual with even-numbered Windows releases... (2)

kdogg73 (771674) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135073)

A trend most certainly fitting for recent releases, calling Vista Windows 6. But was 2000 that bad? How about 98?

Re:As usual with even-numbered Windows releases... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135483)

2000 is NT 5.0. XP is NT 5.1. Both are odd-numbered.

Vista is NT 6.0. Win7 is NT 6.1. Both are even-numbered.

I haven't checked yet, but I suspect that Win8 is NT 6.2, judging by the number of actual under-the-hood changes involved.

tanking (1, Interesting)

GarretSidzaka (1417217) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134709)

windows 8 is single handedly tanking the entire pc market. my wife just switched to linux mint, and she likes it okay.

my biggest interest in in steam-on-linux! are they going to have a full library?

this will put the windows gaming market in jeopardy.

will linux make things like masquerading as easy as windows Internet connection sharing?

Re:tanking (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134907)

Steam will not have the whole library for linux, but all the source games will likely work and many others. Probably the same fraction that works on OSX.

Re:tanking (2)

Nadaka (224565) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135009)

Steam on linux is going to start with valve engine games. It may eventually port most of its collection. But its more likely that NEW steam games will support linux, while the older ones are allowed to continue as windows/mac exclusive.

Re:tanking (1)

GarretSidzaka (1417217) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135053)

but seriously tho, how is microsoft able to hemorrhage this much money because of steve balmer being a stupid fucking gorilla instead of a CEO? there stocks are rock steady but little growth! what happens when all this money disappears? we will need to be ready to switch to linux/android type OS's quick

Re:tanking (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135247)

Steam on linux is going to start with valve engine games.

Probably a lot of games that are already Linux native, [lgdb.org] * too.

OT: Perhaps this is just my sophomoric side showing, but when I see the acronym L.G.D.B., Linux games are not what immediately spring to mind...

Re:tanking (1)

Dan667 (564390) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135445)

I don't think microsoft really understands how captive and unhappy their audience is or how fast they will abandon them if gaming comes to Linux.

Go figure.. (4, Insightful)

s.petry (762400) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134715)

Look, the commercials show a Apple knock off that relies on technology people generally don't have yet. The surface side of it may be interesting, but how many of us have touch displays at home? My guess is, not that many. So if I'm going to be looking at Windows 8 and it's price, I'm also going to be looking for new hardware to make use of some of the features. It prices me to an Apple system pretty quickly and what do I gain? Immature applications? Still the hassle of viruses and security? More lock in to a company that is shit? No thanks.

Windows 8 is having the same problems as Windows Phone. It's like an Apple device with the same price. Consumers may generally be stupid, but they are not that stupid.

Re:Go figure.. (1)

thesameguy (1047504) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135157)

Couple things that occur to me:

I broke my Android phone, and since I thought the iPhone 5 was incredibly lackluster I decided to give an old Windows 7.5 phone (Lumia) a go while I waited for the Nexus 4. Gotta be honest, I really dig the Lumia. Windows 7 OS Phone Mobile .5 or whatever it is works pretty darned well. Lack of multitasking is a PITA (especially this late in the game) but it's really quite pleasant to use and very well thought out. I am enjoying it quite a bit. So much, that I am thinking I might just get a Win 8 phone. Sadly (?) my professional life is keeping Windows systems up, and I take my work home with me.

I ran Win8 RC on an old Dell Dimension and it was fine, but not really good. But I just got an Inspiron 23 AIO PC with a touchscreen and Win8, and it's super. The touchscreen is not only more intuitive than I would have imagined, but more comfortable too. If you watch the three second tutorial that is presented when the system first starts up, the approach to the UI is obvious. Trying to apply what you know about Windows to Windows 8 is definitely going to result in confusion. The most disappointing part of Win8 is how frequently it switches back to legacy desktop... failing to make Control Panel native to Win8 is a big WTF. Win8 isn't compelling like Win7 was (IMHO - for security and reliability reasons), but there is truly nothing wrong with it, and in time it'll probably be pretty darned neat. While I was playing with it, I drew a small crowd from the office and everyone was pretty much blown away. No argument the touch screen is the secret sauce here, though.

I also just got a new Dell XPS 14, that came with Windows 8. Because my office is packed with legacy software that will barely run under 7, keeping 8 was not an option. UEFI is a HUGE PITA. I had to go into the BIOS, disable UEFI and SecureBoot, then REBOOT THE MACHINE. What would have taken ten seconds without these technologies took at least twenty seconds. It was crazy - I kept crying "WHEN WILL IT END?????"

I recall back in the day when Microsoft replaced Windows Executive with Program Manager and people lost their minds. Then they replaced Program Manager with the Start Menu and people lost their minds. Now they are replacing the Start Menu with live tiles or whatever they are called, and people are losing their minds. Again. If you don't like your UI ever changing, buy a Mac. The MacOS UI peaked in like '86 and hasn't changed since. iOS peaked in '08 and hasn't changed since. Microsoft is trying out something new - again - and chances are in five or six years they'll try something else new and everyone will whine about the loss of live tiles.

In the short term - my first hand experience with a bunch of non-technical office people - Windows 8 is positively not harder to use nor more confusing than any other OS. Everyone that has used this Inspiron sitting here has gotten Office and IE and Acrobat loaded quickly and easily, no problems nor drama. No, they can't find Control Panel but it's no great loss as they couldn't use it for anything if they could find it. Frankly, if I could deploy 8 tomorrow I would... for 99% of what people do (which is run four or five programs) it works *great*, and the touch features are intuitive in a way that Windows Key+Tab never was. Sadly, like I said, we've got legacy apps.

Re:Go figure.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135295)

try it without a touchscreen, on a multi monitor setup its a fricken turd then.

Re:Go figure.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135455)

I've been using it since the official release on a two monitor setup, and it adds several features that improve multi-monitor support. I don't believe you've used it.

Re:Go figure.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135311)

Viruses? Seriously? are you a fucking moron or a "Senior system engineer/architect?"

You're one of those "only windows gets viruses" people right? oh boy.

Yes (1, Interesting)

Cinder6 (894572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134745)

I actually like it more than Windows 7, to the point that I wonder if I'm using the same OS as other people. I will grant, though, that I don't use the Metro stuff. Doesn't seem to be much point. But the other features are nice to have.

Re:Yes (2)

jon3k (691256) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134959)

What are the new features, other than metro? It seemed just like a normal Windows 7 desktop (sans start button) to me, but I honestly haven't spent much time with it.

Re:Yes (4, Interesting)

Cinder6 (894572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135081)

The new task manager is very nice. Windows 8 is a lot better at loading the proper drivers out of the box (didn't have to download a thing on the two systems I've done clean installs on), I like the way search is separated wrt. files, applications, and settings (though some don't like it). It's a bit snappier than 7. Picture-based login is nice in some cases. Easy to create custom install images. I thought I would miss Aero, but I actually prefer the flat colors (though some more customization would be nice). Better multi-monitor support. Expanded keyboard shortcuts (mainly for new UI elements). You don't have to pay an arm and a leg for Bitlocker. And I actually like the Ribbon on the file explorer, but YMM-definitely-V on that one.

Basically, if you ignore Metro, Windows 8 is 7 with a full-screen start menu and some refinements. The only thing that's missing is jump list on start screen icons, though they're still around on the taskbar.

Re:Yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135517)

> some refinements

I believe you can throw multi-core improvements in with that, as well. Not certain though.

Re:Yes (1)

JonathanCombe (642832) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135223)

This is useful for a developer for sure, but in normal circumstances the average user shouldn't need to go into Task Manager. If a program stops responding, Windows already offers to shut it down so you can launch it again. The only reason I can think is to disable processes that don't have a window open but are consuming resource. I really don't think the average user cares how much memory is free or how much CPU is being used as long as the system is responding.

Re:Yes (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134979)

Probably true. But you have to go and do extra legwork to get some third party UI programs to make the desktop more usable. It's so extremely inexpensive though that I'm a bit tempted, just to get what is essentially Windows 7 SP2.

Re:Yes (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135099)

The desktop isn't crippled at all in my usage. The only difference is the lack of the start menu; however, the start screen duplicates all the functionality I ever used, and provides more space for search results.

Why would we switch? (4, Interesting)

Zakabog (603757) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134753)

Have you (or has your business?) moved to Windows 8?

I don't know why we would switch. Vista was such a shit show that Windows 7 was a blessing, but Windows 8 just seems to do nothing better than Windows 7 on a desktop compter (which is my primary use at home and at work) so why would I spend the money upgrading? I don't even want to pirate Windows 8 for my home computer just to play around. Used it a few times and I didn't like it, and I'm dreading not having Windows 7 included with our new computers.

Re:Why would we switch? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134969)

Have you (or has your business?) moved to Windows 8?

At our company, which has well over 30,000 PCs deployed, >90% of our systems are still on Windows XP. Who are you kidding? Who is Microsoft kidding? If it ain't broke, don't upgrade it

And before the bleeding edge fanboys... hell, before the slightly-bruised-edge fanboys get up in arms about whatever technical features there are that makes Win 7 a superior OS than XP (and I'm sure there are numerous examples), most organizations of our size suffer from the "Battlestar 78" problem. Our IT environment can only move forward as fast as the slowest mission-critical legacy app. When your biz ops/reg compliance/contractual obligs depend on a niche application that is not yet certified for IE 8, then the revenue-creating side of the company doesn't want to hear squat about group policy optimizations, memory management, or whatever.

Re:Why would we switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135243)

Have you (or has your business?) moved to Windows 8?

At our company, which has well over 30,000 PCs deployed, >90% of our systems are still on Windows XP. Who are you kidding? Who is Microsoft kidding? If it ain't broke, don't upgrade it

And before the bleeding edge fanboys... hell, before the slightly-bruised-edge fanboys get up in arms about whatever technical features there are that makes Win 7 a superior OS than XP (and I'm sure there are numerous examples), most organizations of our size suffer from the "Battlestar 78" problem. Our IT environment can only move forward as fast as the slowest mission-critical legacy app. When your biz ops/reg compliance/contractual obligs depend on a niche application that is not yet certified for IE 8, then the revenue-creating side of the company doesn't want to hear squat about group policy optimizations, memory management, or whatever.

I agree with not upgrading to windows 8 but your company is just being irresponsible by putting off the migration to windows 7.

Re:Why would we switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135185)

I don't know why we would switch. Vista was such a shit show that Windows 7 was a blessing, but Windows 8 just seems to do nothing better than Windows 7 on a desktop compter.

True, but I just purchased his and hers desktops and Windows 7 wasn't available anymore. I was planning on wiping mine anyway. I'm not 100% decided on hers, but I doubt what she requested, XP, will run on it without virtualization.

Moved over (1)

egranlund (1827406) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134799)

Moved to Windows 8 on all of my machines (Home, Work and Laptop) as well as moved both of my parents over from XP to 8.

Really like it so far. It does appear to be a lot faster on my machines. I don't really use metro on my desktop machines, but I use it almost exclusively on my laptop as I mostly just use my laptop for web browsing any way.

My dad really likes 8, my mom doesn't care either way, I'm just glad to get her off of Windows XP and use that as an excuse to get her out of Outlook Express and Palm Desktop for managing her contacts and mail to Outlook so I won't have to deal with any more end of life products.

Re:Moved over (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134871)

Palm Desktop still works fine on Windows 8 - even syncs.

Re:Moved over (1)

egranlund (1827406) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135177)

Yes it does but she no longer has a Palm device (she switched to the iPhone about a year or two ago) and was stuck on version 4 of the software. She was just using Palm desktop at that point to look up old contacts and notes she had made just I just used the move as an opportunity to just put everything in the same place in Outlook.

Re:Moved over (1)

trevc (1471197) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135225)

Posts like this are funny. We go from people worrying about rolling out a new OS to thousands of machines in an organization to "My dad really likes 8, my mom doesn't care either way"

Our Experience (4, Informative)

myrdos2 (989497) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134803)

My girlfriend got a Windows 8 netbook, since that's all they had in the store. She hates it. The default metro apps take a long time to load and feel sluggish, even though they're meant for tablets. She also complains that they're poorly thought-out, and it's hard to figure out simple functionality. IE, how do you move the to the next picture when looking at pictures in a folder. Also, she's getting tired of everything wanting to go full screen.

Re:Our Experience (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134927)

how do you move the to the next picture when looking at pictures in a folder

You mean in the photos app? There are two arrows, one on the left and one on the right side. Click those.

Re:Our Experience (1)

myrdos2 (989497) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134965)

I've never used it myself - she showed me some arrow popping up at the side, but clicking it exited the program instead of moving to the next picture.

Re:Our Experience (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135051)

Windows 8 is is designed for better hardware. If she were buying a touch enabled ultrabook then it would be a test case. Microsoft shouldn't have allowed 8 on an inexpensive laptop in 2012.

Re:Our Experience (4, Interesting)

ducomputergeek (595742) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135335)

I was at a Microsoft event earlier this week and there was a session on design for Windows 8 across the various platforms and it answered a lot of questions I had been scratching my head about. It's clear over the next few years that Microsoft is aiming to design a single UI across all of it's platforms from Phone, to Desktops, to tablets, to TV. They want it to all be the same experience. Part of that is the expectation that going forward devices will all have touch screens from the phone to the desktop. They want to fundamentally change how all applications function to their new model, which from a purely design perspective has some merits. It's also I think banking on the idea that websites as we think of them today are going away being replaced by single use apps.

Problem is it's their new design philosophy is completely different from what people have come to expect. For instance, Windows 8 Metro apps are to scroll horizontal instead of vertical. (unless it's a phone app then it's vertical). Tool bars are supposed to go off screen until you use some kind of mouse/keyboard/touch gesture. Don't include functionality in your app that can be done by another app via contracts. And that is going to through a lot of people who aren't creative types, especially businesses. Most people get into their routine and don't want change. And the fact it's going to be a while, if ever, before existing applications update to this new design guidelines. So it's going to be a disjointed experience between old and new for a couple years.

Apple figured out that while iOS and OSX share many of the same technical underpinnings, they made the UI and design standards different. The desktop functions the same way OSX has for the past 10 years and iOS is different. People don't expect OSX to behave like iOS and vice versa.

Android really only has to worry about mobile devices with tablets and phones being their only two product lines.

Microsoft had a chart: there are about 700M Windows 7 devices and within x months they expect there will be 500M Windows 8 devices. Android's number was around 350M devices and Apple about 200M devices. (Now there are some problems there because what counts as "Android". I mean Kindle devices run a version of Android, but not exactly as they have their own SDK etc. So does that still count as "android". Also Android is starting to show up on other devices such as cameras and I'd imagine inside of TV's before long.)

People waiting for Windows Blue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134807)

iPhone 6. Duh!

What about WP8? (5, Interesting)

hsmith (818216) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134819)

I've heard nothing on their sales so far, which means to me they are terrible. Much like the Surface production being halved [qz.com] .

I don't criticize MS for trying something different. It is a bold move. But, what they are putting out ISN'T the solution to the problem. They just can't figure out what to do it seems.

Windows 8 at work? (2)

WillgasM (1646719) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134821)

I'm still trying to get everything migrated to Windows 7. After that I'll be looking for a linux distro that works for the people that don't really require windows apps. This whole Microsoft Blue thing has me convinced I shouldn't have all my eggs in the windows basket.

Expensive, Windows Store app, Locked bootloader (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134855)

Why would I spend that much money to get even more locked into their system? Where's the real benefit for me?

Re:Expensive, Windows Store app, Locked bootloader (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135155)

At $40 to upgrade, it's 1/3 the price of the Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade when it first came out.

Maybe (1)

Black LED (1957016) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134869)

I bought the $15 Windows 8 Pro upgrade (which is actually a full version of Windows 8) and installed it on to a second hard drive so that I can dual boot with my existing Windows 7. So far it seems good. It is noticeably faster than Windows 7 but I haven't committed to using it full time yet. I don't have any issues with the missing start menu since I never use it in Windows 7 anyways. My plan is to keep the dual boot setup and if/when I find myself using Windows 8 more than Windows 7, I'll make the switch.

Ignore NPD reports (3, Insightful)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134881)

While The PA Report post [penny-arcade.com] deals specifically with games and how they are just not tracked properly by NPD, the same principle applies to any software: the retail store aspect of sales is small and getting smaller every day. Ignore NPD, they really don't matter anymore.

Re:Ignore NPD reports (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135103)

The article appears written by someone who doesn't know statistics. The same sort of person who claims that polling doesn't work because you're only looking at a few people, and it could be missing huge segments of the population.

The excuses given in the article are completely "gut-feel", wild guess-based "ranges", and speculation ... but no actual math. Nowhere is the methodology of NPD refuted. It's pundits vs statisticians, and I think we recently found which of of those is actually worth listening to.

My Business Customers say "Windows 7" (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134885)

When offering Windows 8 Pro to business customers that were replacing old crotchety XP machines one customer said "we'll pay an extra $100 for Windows 7 if necessary. But, we don't want Windows 8". I'm not seeing much love for 8 from customers, even though I use it and like it.

That's not what the report says at all. (5, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134887)

Actually, all this report says is that US desktop and laptop sales are sluggish and that Windows 8 has done nothing to change that. In fact, the actual report [npd.com] , not linked to for some reason, states this: “After just four weeks on the market, it’s still early to place blame on Windows 8 for the ongoing weakness in the PC market.” It also states that slow back to school sales have increased inventory, which is hampering Windows 8 sales.

They also have a very strange definition of "four weeks on the market" as the period they're looking at is Oct 22, 2012 - Nov 14 2012... which includes 5 days prior to Windows 8 being released. With Microsoft selling about 1.5M licenses a day in these initial weeks, 5 days where sales are practically zero is a lot to include in the data.

Re:That's not what the report says at all. (1)

hamster_nz (656572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135079)

It was most probably four weeks since wholesalers / resellers could order Win8 devices.

They were embargoed... you could order them, stock them, just not sell them until the release date.

Re:That's not what the report says at all. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135409)

Makes sense. I figure that by now most everyone who can afford a cheap PC will have one, which means the market is saturated and slows down. Why upgrade when the old stuff still works? My parents still have an old (less than 10 years old!) CRT television in the living room which still works just fine. People throw away too much stuff way too regularly.

Maybe the PC is taking the backseat for now in sales. But I reckon in a few decades, the PC will still be the most prominent high-tech device in every household, simply because it is the only device with the versatility to be used for anything from homework, to video, to music, to chatting, to calling, to doing taxes, to create stuff, to finding cake recipes, to taking over the world and whatever else you can imagine doing with a computing and storage powerhouse with superior input and output methods.

Won't Buy It. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134921)

After buying the kludge that was Vista, I swore I'd never buy another version of Windows ever again...

Linux Mint does everything I need it to do for a home user (I'm not a power user, Just Another Random Guy), it's stable and it's free. It ain't perfect, but then, what is?

Some Anecdotal Data (1)

fermion (181285) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134955)

I bought some laptops in October/November. The salesperson said that laptops were flying off the shelf due to the incoming MS Windows 8. Everyone wanted to make sure they had a MS Windows 7 laptop. The salesmen statements were supported by the number of shopping in the laptop section of the store and the number of machines that were sold out. Normally at this location they have very good stock.

It was also funny because one machine bought had a special upgrade coupon to MS Windows 8(which is superflous as all machines bought recently can be upgraded, which makes me suspicious about the upgrade licensee as every who bought a computer recently can go for the free upgrade even if they do not use it). So we were told to keep the coupon even if we were not going to use it, just in case. It seems that most shopper were not even interested in the free upgrade.

I am still mostly on XP. It would nice to move to 7 as I like it quite a bit. But the rule of MS is that every other major upgrade is trash.

Re:Some Anecdotal Data (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135067)

Are these people not aware that you can downgrade [microsoft.com] to Windows 7 at any point?

Re:Some Anecdotal Data (4, Informative)

bobcat7677 (561727) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135209)

Only if you have Windows 8 Professional. Most new PCs sold come with Windows 8 Home, which does not provide downgrade rights.

Sales... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134973)

are as high as they are because the vendors cannot sell Windows 7 licenses. They are forcing people to purchase Windows 8 licenses and downgrade to 7.

Yes (1)

Drethon (1445051) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134981)

I ran into a licensing issue that was cheapest to fix with a Windows 8 upgrade. Everything seems faster than Windows 7 but it doesn't really provide additional useful functionality in my opinion (and I did just upgrade to an SSD before going to Win 8 so it may be that...).

Shocking. (2)

Endo13 (1000782) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135001)

I was going to post some anecdotes demonstrating how little I care about Windows 8 but then I realized I just didn't care enough to.

I switched... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135005)

MS offered the $39 dollar upgrade. Given the most recent vintage I was entitled to previously was Vista (free upgrade from a free XP license), it was a good oppurtunity to catch up with a servicable OS.

It performs massively better (boot time on an SSD is great) and has a slicker baked in task manager. The metro stuff is highly annoying and gets in the way. The MS app store is stuffed with crap (even the netflix app is crap, it doesn't seem to support any reasonable keyboard navigation), so it's pretty much a total loss.

I *thought* the metro ui would be no big deal and easily ignored, but it really is a bit more intrusive making me consider installing classic shell, although that wasn't as nice and functional as Win7's start menu was on systems where I could play with it. The biggest aggravation is the removal of the context menu on right click, instead poppung up elements on the far edge of the screen. I realize that's intentional for fat fingered usage, but as a mouse user it is aggravating.

I've seen some touch users comment on something I suspected would be frustrating. As you play with the 'metro' apps, most of them have scrolling using scrollbars. Touch users have to hit a relatively small scrollbar in those apps in order to navigate the viewport.

I had thought perhaps the start interface would make a servicable landing for an HTPC. However, desktop application exit doesn't really land back at the start menu (probably a decent way to script that back). Joysticks can't navigate it. I'm about to find out if it will support an MCE remote to navigate the start menu. If that fails it's a lost cause, and I'll just have startup items start XBMC as the primary interface (despite the praise heaped upon WMC, MythTV scheduler is better and the netflix plugin for WMC doesn't support subtitles).

As you may have noticed, most of my needs so far would be well satisfied by Linux (particularly since the media server/mythtv backend is linux), but Windows is there specifically for the games, sadly.

Buisness? Are you kidding? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135013)

The "Metro" UI isn't just bad for business applications. It's almost designed to specifically sabotage them.
And the more serious the work, the more it gets in you way. And you can't get rid of it.

There is zero case for using Metro apps for buisness. None. Ab-so-fucking-lutely none.
No integration with AD/Enterprise. Metro might as well be a sandbox the Admin cant touch. Oh, he can't remove or disable it either.
Single task - Task switching is a joke. It's like going back to windows 1.0
If you have extra monitors, the metro UI makes no use of them.. And blocks them while you've got the UI up. Since this garbage has replaced the start menu this happens a lot.

For business, win8 is an nonstarter. It offers some under the hood improvements and new manageability features. But, like vista, It's not worth it. Also like vista, I doubt business adoption will crack 9%

Re:Buisness? Are you kidding? (1)

omnichad (1198475) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135133)

Not entirely true. Restaurant POS systems already are giant touch screens running Windows.

I partially blame OEMs (1)

omnichad (1198475) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135163)

Some of the blame rests with OEMs on this. The entire OS is only really usable with a touch screen. Very few makers are including touch these days, except on tablets or on the very high end. Screen digitizers have never been cheaper, so why leave it out?

NYPD? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135193)

Why is the NYPD tracking this? I thought San Francisco was where the Metro's liked to play...

Have I or my business used Win8 yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135211)

Tee hee hee.....

Chortle chortle chortle.

Fuck no. Why would I?????

And here's a shocker - the next machine I have blow it's gaskets here at work.... I'm going to use Windows 7, not 8, on its' replacement. The last damn thing I need to do is hold the hand of my userbase as they try and understand there is no Start button, or have to retro-install something to make that happen, or play guinea pig to make sure that my Enterprise software will play nicey-nice with Win8.

trrolkore (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135387)

Why wouldn't I? (1)

TheRealSlimShady (253441) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135397)

It's slightly faster than Win7, still runs all my apps, and has much better battery life. Those things alone are enough to get me to move to it, although I've been using it since beta. I'm basically using it like Win7 with a different Start Menu. I don't find it "jarring", and the fact that it's customisable to let me move all my most frequently used things close means it's actually better than the old start menu anyway. For my really frequently used stuff I pin them to the taskbar anyway, just like I used to do in Win7. And for the most part I use the Windows key on my keyboard because it's more efficient than moving my hand to the mouse.
I tend not to use too many "metro" apps usually because I have a desktop app (i.e. I use Outlook instead of the Mail app, FoxIt reader instead of the reader app). If a metro app happens to be the default I'll use that unless it doesn't do what I want. One metro app I really like is the video app, mainly because it has DLNA support in it which lets me stream video directly to my TV.

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