Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

How Can Linux Gain (Even) More Enterprise Acceptance? (Video)

Roblimo posted about a year and a half ago | from the embracing-and-extending-forever dept.

Cloud 177

This is what we asked Jason Perlow. He wrote a Linux Magazine column for many years and now writes for ZDNet. The ZDNet blurb describes him as "a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies." Most recently, he worked for IBM, and for Unisys before that. So Jason knows plenty about Linux and its role in big-time enterprise computing. In this video, he talks about how Linux needs to take another step forward to gain even more enterprise traction in coming years.

cancel ×

177 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

NO MOAR NECKBEARDS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134181)


 

Gaining traction should be easy (4, Funny)

plover (150551) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134191)

All he has to do is say "Look at Windows 8. Now look at Unity."

Oh, wait. Bad example.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (4, Informative)

Ynot_82 (1023749) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134307)

Oh, wait. Bad example.

Actually, it's a perfect example.

"Look at Windows 8. Don't like the unterface? tough, there's nothing you can do about it.
Now look at Unity. Don't like the interface? Well try these others, there's plenty to choose from."

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1, Redundant)

plover (150551) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134339)

Ooo! Good point!

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (4, Funny)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134395)

I would add "Don't like to have too much options? What about having just one, but wrong?"

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

somersault (912633) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134397)

Enterprise customers use volume licensing, which allows you to run older versions of Windows if you want. So there is stuff you can do about it.

And Linux is actually a viable alternative to Windows for a lot of typical office workers. It really depends what software they need.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1, Insightful)

David_Hart (1184661) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134597)

Linux is not as viable as you might think. A large percentage of office workers work at large companies. Large companies require enterprise level support systems, something that Microsoft, and the Windows ecosystem, does a good job providing and which Linux just doesn't have. It's one of the reasons why Linux has not gained traction.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (2)

tolkienfan (892463) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134653)

"Enterprise Level Support Systems"
Sounds more like a marketing term than real functionality.

Seriously, what *IS* it?

I'm not trolling - I'd really like to know.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

somersault (912633) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134691)

I'm thinking maybe account management and such, but I'm sure alternatives are available. Even if they weren't, Linux machines can be used in place of Windows clients in an Active Directory environment.

There are organisations that do enterprise support for Linux anyway.. Red Hat and the like.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (3, Insightful)

David_Hart (1184661) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134931)

I'm thinking maybe account management and such, but I'm sure alternatives are available. Even if they weren't, Linux machines can be used in place of Windows clients in an Active Directory environment.

There are organisations that do enterprise support for Linux anyway.. Red Hat and the like.

Account management is but the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, there are organizations that perform enterprise support. However, these services are largely dedicated to servers and not to workstations.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136113)

Mod parent "Bullshit."

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (4, Informative)

David_Hart (1184661) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134899)

Enterprise level support systems for workstations include, but are not limited to:

- Inventory management
- Software deployment, patching, and auditing
- Remote support
- Deployment of enterprise policies (i.e. AD GPO)
- Enterprise security policies (certificate deployment, AV deployment & policies, firewall deployment & policies).

etc, etc, etc...

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135141)

I believe this is the aim of Novell SuSE, inckuding symion (sp?) desktop agent. full enterprise support

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135899)

All of these are 100% doable under Linux, no problem, even more flexibly than Windows.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136223)

So.... all things you get with Linux then. Kinda makes your argument null and void. Want to try again?

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (5, Funny)

Nadaka (224565) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134933)

Its an ecosystem of software that allows group policy to determine what can and can not be done with a computer. Standardize antivirus? Want to spy on web traffic to prevent porn/games on company time? Want to bog down a developer box so that their IDE is so slow you have to wait for shit to pop up when you click, and you can waste 45 minutes building the application while norton dismembers your hard drive, and then cause a Permgen Space error half the time because the JVM isn't allowed to use more than 256megs of ram?

Enterprise level support is the answer. I'm not the least bit frustrated that I waste 2 hours a day because I am trying to get shit done while my computer gags on a bag of cocks that it is forced on developer and marketing douchebag alike.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (0)

tolkienfan (892463) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135255)

This my favorite answer so far. :)

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (2)

AAKiwi (2574447) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135633)

I agree, I got tired of doing development and spending hours of my week screwing with, investigating, and solving windows bugs.....I would waste so much time and still get nowhere. If one does enterprise software development, Linux is the only way to go. I do anticipate that if Microsoft keep going on the same trajectory....they will phase out C#...

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136355)

My understanding is that it's a euphemism for a mangled mess of proprietary protocols often specific to IE. Like most of our modern problems it is the result of very short-sighted thinking and a sales method of hypnotizing customers with buzz words that trigger certain parts of the brain to give a general feeling of amazement without any specifics.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

s.petry (762400) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134985)

I very much disagree, but perhaps have less ignorance than you on the subject. Redhat and Suse are known just for the Enterprise support. It's expensive, just like Microsoft.. but has patching, inventory, software management, etc.. just like you mention below. Ubuntu has LTS which is supposed to be similar, but I have no personal experience with their support.

ps. posting anon so I can spend mod points today. s.petry

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135149)

You failed at posting anonymously. ;)

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135153)

ps. posting anon so I can spend mod points today. s.petry

How'd that work out for you?

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

Synerg1y (2169962) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135181)

I'm kind of amused I had to read about 10 posts before I found a response that's even relevant.

Patching is huge...

inventory is kind of vague, a licensing model capable of servicing a large # of customers maybe?

Enterprise support definitely involves tech support, so if corp A can't figure out a software issue they call the software developers who have an on-call system.

The other thing I can think of is customization, if you're willing to pay for it options are available to tailor the system to your business processes.

We're more in the realm of software than OS level with these options, for an OS it mainly looks like tech support thinking of red hat, not sure what else they provide besides a licensing model. I think they might also write / build stuff for you, but I don't know if that level of support extends to the kernel. In Windows, it does not.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | about a year and a half ago | (#42136129)

"Large companies require enterprise level support systems, something that Microsoft, and the Windows ecosystem, does a good job providing and which Linux just doesn't have"

I can't think of a better way to announce to the world that you know nothing about Linux, and how companies make money on Linux, than making such a phenomenally stupid statement.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (2)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about a year and a half ago | (#42136137)

80% of the Fortune 500 have deployed Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

Source: InformationWeek, July 2012.

I'd call that a little traction. And that's just Red Hat, not including alternatives like SuSe, Oracle, and so forth.

A more telling indication of how well Linux performs in the Enterprise ecosystem is probably the invention of Windows PowerShell. Which is, in large part, a response to the fact that even the most ancient 1990s versions of Linux sported a selection of shells suitable for remote administration and scripting in a way that the comparatively feeble COMMAND.COM and CMD.EXE shells do not.

I could be even nastier and point out that the RPM database that's installed on every Red Hat family system (including Fedora and CentOS) has not only a complete inventory of all packages installed on the system, including information that can be used to not only inventory what files are installed where, but checksum information that can be used to trivially scan for possible damage or sabotage and that if Windows has yet added such a feature it happened very, very recently. Or enumerate the various provisioning and monitoring tools available for Linux. But that's just being vicious.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134441)

"Look at Windows 8. Don't like the unterface? tough, there's nothing you can do about it. Now look at Unity. Don't like the interface? Well try these others, there's plenty to choose from."

What are you talking about? There are plenty of start menu replacements. You can even place the entire shell with Classic Shell. The interface in Windows is probably one of the most easily modded and customized aspects.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134599)

have you ever installed a custom shell in windows? sure it may seem to work, but just wait till one of your programs makes a procedure call to one of the now non-existent UI hooks. you're gonna have a bad time...

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135049)

The difference is Windows 8 doesn't kill performance everywhere else due to it's UI

(Dunno why anyone would ever think desktop effects are more important than 3d performance elsewhere).

Something will have to be done before RHEL7 or they will lose all their workstation customers.

Re:Gaining traction should be easy (1)

Defenestrar (1773808) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134693)

Wait - are you talking about active directory? From an enterprise point of view that's what I'd be looking at.

More acceptance in the Enterprise? (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134197)

Lose the beard. Find a shirt. Just sayin...

Re:More acceptance in the Enterprise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134381)

Maybe use a comb too.... jesus. This guy is a textbook example of a neckbeard and why no one listens to them.

Re:More acceptance in the Enterprise? (5, Funny)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134617)

Lose the beard. Find a shirt. Just sayin...

Just not a red shirt. People wearing those don't seem to live long on the Enterprise.

Re:More acceptance in the Enterprise? (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | about a year and a half ago | (#42136197)

Don't be confused into thinking that you are insightful because you were modded up. If you had a clue you would know that Linux is the mainstream corporate OS, backed by most important major corporations, including IBM; maybe you've heard of them and their insistence on dressing well and wearing a tie?

Re:More acceptance in the Enterprise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136441)

Don't be confused into thinking that because he was modded insightful that it wasn't funny. Relax.

Marketing (2)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134203)

Same as the 'big boys' ... hookers and blow.

Re:Marketing (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134309)

Do things the IBM way:

-Make a shitty enterprise app
-Tell a client manager it does everything and more
-Drop a few "free licenses"
-Have some consultants slap together a demo
-Secure support contract for next 1000 years
-Leave trail of slime on your way to the bank

Shirt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134209)

Linux needs to wear a shirt, while doing a video interview on slashdot. Oh, wait.

Active Directory capable (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134233)

Says it all in terms of "management" functions it needs (without samba etc.). Might as well copy that considering Linux had to copy features Windows NT derived Operating Systems had for years before Linux had to copy them to become enterprise class.

Holy Stereotypes Batman! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134301)

Bot of these guys. Just wow!

A few things... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134325)

As others have said, no more neckbeards.

And RMS has to stop eating his toe fungus.

To increase popularity (2)

Sparticus789 (2625955) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134383)

Let's have people who are not collecting SS with severe COPD conduct video interviews about Linux.

I'll give you a hint (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134407)

Step 1 is not "post a video on Slashdot".

Re:I'll give you a hint (2, Insightful)

chucklebutte (921447) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134659)

This roblimo guy sounded like he was having a heart attack or doing some sort of one handed strenuous activity which results in heavy panting.

Re:I'll give you a hint (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135111)

doing some sort of one handed strenuous activity

Well, he was talking about Linux...

EASY !! START PAYING US TO USE IT !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134421)

I'll certainly consider "using" Linux if you pay me, oh, ONE MILLION DOLLARS !!

Does Linux need more acceptance? (5, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134431)

Seriously people. Linux is frikken everywhere.

Though we are a "Windows Shop" here at my company, we have more Linux servers than Windows servers. How can that be? Turns out, our storage appliances, our Cisco phone system, our VMWare servers and lots more if you include the multi-function copiers and stuff are all Linux machines. We also have a small collection of Linux machines I put together which just run and run and run...

At one time, we were in a meeting talking about various topics and someone made the statement about Linux being a hobbyist system and blah blah blah... I was silent for a moment and then pointed out the largest professional server deployments on the planet are running under Linux. ... and oh yeah, so are most of our servers... voicemail, virtual hosts, storage and all that. How, exactly, is Linux just a hobbyist system?

Linux, itself, is very widely accepted, used and relied upon. It is very proven.

What is needed now is serious added push for the SaMBa project to embrace and extend on Microsoft's AD. Take it over and make it better. After all, it's a bunch of services. There's a lot of really smart people out there who are quite capable and looking for a good project to get involved in. I'd like to point in SaMBa's direction. One thing it seriously lacks is a dumbass configuration tool.

I get that we can tweak on config files all day long and the SWAT thing is kinda nice. But we need to compete with the Windows domain server GUI tools and all that. The functionality is very much there. Now we just need something that dumbasses can use.

Linux is on those items you noted for 1 reason (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134613)

Since it keeps per-unit cost down since it is free. Windows can do the same things but it costs, hence, the usage of Linux. At least be honest WHY it is there on the items you noted.

Re:Linux is on those items you noted for 1 reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135015)

Mod down all you like but truth's truth. You can't handle it.

Re:Linux is on those items you noted for 1 reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135125)

Have you tried web and mail servers on Windows? They are a bad joke, you can't even have 100 users on the same machine without it slowing to a crawl...

But to each their own...

Re:Linux is on those items you noted for 1 reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136041)

And yet netbooks completely switched to XP when MS dropped the price to below $20 per license, don't think for a second that MS wouldn't drop the price of Windows CE or embedded "Flavour of the year" for these businesses if they wanted it. But keep thinking it price! Afterall, it must also be price that makes it impossible for Windows to sell desktops .... oh wait, oops...

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134621)

Have mod points to spend, so replying anonymously. Great points, but I think the a major issue is that most people don't realize that Linux is the heart of countless items from Embedded Linux on copiers and firewalls and switches, to VMWare and Citrix XenServer with are more pure Linux platforms with slight modifications.

You are obviously brighter than the average person looking at those devices :)

S.Petry

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134645)

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135083)

That response is disingenuous and you know it. Have you ever seen the bloat that is Embedded Windows? It's far from cost alone when dealing with embedded systems. Embedded Linux is extremely fast, very small, and much more secure. Prior to Linux being a preferred embedded system, it was named Unix for numerous similar reasons. No matter what Microsoft marketing tries to tell us, most people who looked at embedded Windows has laughed. Most small appliances lack the real estate to even bother looking. A few vendors have taken it on, we all see the blue screens. But it's large devices only since the footprint is simply massive just to make it work.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136415)

Money talk$, your bullshit, walks: In manufacturing, ask ANY engineer about how it works. They're hired to design and then make the product at least 10% cheaper to make per unit every year. Wake up - this is the real world.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (5, Funny)

chispito (1870390) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134727)

Now we just need something that dumbasses can use.

Also, a touch more PR finesse might help.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134779)

One thing it seriously lacks is a dumbass configuration tool.

Why not try Microsofts tools? Works great with samba4

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134963)

Yes lets run something that's not even released as stable in a mission critical environment.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (1)

Revotron (1115029) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134815)

I don't think it's so much that they're looking for acceptance. I think it's moreso that they want businesses to use it for more things. I'd also say it's widely accepted as-is, but apparently they're not happy with already-staggering server and mobile market shares.

If you want to get more people to use something, make it something they want to use.

Or maybe, just maybe, accept that your product has its niche, and other products have other niches. The Linux community will rip itself to shreds trying to make Linux the answer to everything.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134829)

"One thing it seriously lacks is a dumbass configuration tool."

Is that a tool that a dumbass can operate easily to configure software? Or software that can be used easily to configure the dumbass?

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135241)

Preferably it's the same software.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135065)

I find sad that Linux is only being able to compete with AD by cloning it...

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135429)

It's called LDAP and Kerberos.
You can use it to do all sorts of stuff at an enterprise level (like use it to drive/push puppet policy). Get single sign on and decent account management. This has always been possible.

But do you know what it's missing? Someone saying "This is how you do *this*, no if ands or buts."
Then you wrap GUIs and best practices around that repeatable activity that maps to 95% of business cases.

And then you have Active Directory.

It's not cloning so much as realizing that it's a good model and it's less broken than it once was, so why not adopt it for better interoperability? What have you got to lose? Plus technically it's extensible, if you're willing to do your own thing. We add our own attributes to our AD objects all the time and use them for non-standard uses for all manner of capabilities.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135101)

Finding qualified *nix admins willing to work for dime a dozen windows admin wages is biggest issue where I work.

We had a lot more *nix (commercial and non-commercial) than windows at my work. Management found they could hire windows folks a dime a dozen. Found it difficult to find skilled *nix tallent in our rural location (and could not attract folks from other locales with the wages they were willing to pay). Tons of stuff has been migrated to windows. Uptime has gone to shit-- it is not just a cliche (to Redmond's credit, many are admin caused outages caused by these dime a dozen windows admins). In spite of this, mgmt has been pushing for more and more stuff moved to windows. Payroll, student records, registration, and everything important are still on *nix, but the way things are going, they will have to announce registration is canceled and there will be no paychecks this month-- due to switching that to windows too.

GUI tools are not a good thing. Reproducability suffers (click here, click here, then click there.... does not allow a simple config migration from testdev to prod. You cannot check mouse clicks into version control. Windows and most gui tools are pretty much anti configuration management.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (1)

westlake (615356) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135729)

How can that be? Turns out, our storage appliances, our Cisco phone system, our VMWare servers and lots more if you include the multi-function copiers and stuff are all Linux machines.

The key word here is "appliance."

A single-purpose device that users never give the slightest thought to until it fails. The operating system and user interface are deeply embedded, heavily customized, and off-limits to everyone but the technician who maintains it.

Linux, itself, is very widely accepted, used and relied upon. It is very proven.

In the back office. In the server rooms.

The domain of the IT pro ---

which can look very much like the home of a 43 year old UNIX mainframe.

If perhaps not quire so clean, spacious and tidy.

The problem is that the PC was embraced as a disruptive technology that gave more power --- more leverage --- to the user.

The problem is that the geek's relationship with the user tends to be rocky and at arm's length. You see this all the time in arguments over what a system or application UI should look like.

Re:Does Linux need more acceptance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136247)

"...we can tweak on config files all day long...Now we just need something that dumbasses can use."

This is the core attitude difference that will forever keep Linux inside the printer and off the desktop. Most people, ones that have at least a moderately healthy lifestyle, choose not to sit around in a basement for 15+ hours a day tweaking config files for fun while chugging mountain dew to wash down those pop tarts. That's why they don't buy toaster ovens that hook up to the internet. They don't buy hammers that require operating instructions and a six week class to perform the same function as a standard one. AND they don't care for an OS that is capable of doing a billion things they don't need or want to do but takes 3 months to figure out how to install a network card. They have better things to do with their life and time. The cases where linux works is where the users DON'T KNOW IT'S THERE. A good piece of technology makes life easier without knowing it exists, or at least not requiring a significant amount of time to figure out how to use it. Really the problem is that what most people see as a negative ( config files, command lines, kernel screwing, trolling internet forums for hours looking for simple solutions to simple problems ) Linux people LOVE, because they have nothing better to do with their life. So until these Linux folk find something better to do they're going to keep trying to push this boring dumbass config file crap of an OS on the rest of the world in a pathetic attempt to show us that it's fun. It's not, get over it.

Some one Call 911... (0)

who_stole_my_kidneys (1956012) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134445)

I think Roblimo is having a heart attach, there is allot of heavy breathing going on in this.

Re:Some one Call 911... (2)

Roblimo (357) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135843)

I *have* had several heart attacks and am in poor health. Mostly retired, just doing a little part-time work for Slashdot and a few others.

Am I supposed to call you an insensitive clod now? Nah. Too trite.

Seriously, in 2010 I had a heart attack, got stents put in, and 5 hours after I got out of the hospital I had congestive heart failure and died. Got resuscitated, but all the tubes the EMS guys stuck down my throat left me with more rasp than voice.

Thank you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134453)

All I needed was to watch about five seconds of the interview. I needed a good laugh. This was a great laugh.

Honestly... I dislike Perlow. Intensely. (4, Interesting)

Slartibartfast (3395) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134547)

He's always been an apologist for Windows -- even right during his tenure writing for Linux Magazine. This isn't to say that Linux doesn't have its shortcomings, nor Windows its strengths: they both do. But, dammit: when you're writing for a Linux magazine, you eat the dogfood, you don't find reasons to prophesize that Linux will never be a contender. Which he did. Repeatedly.

In a nutshell: I can't be bothered to listen to his drivel. I called him on his antics, both in forums, and directly via e-mail, and he never dignified me with a response. I certainly needn't dignify his verbal ramblings with time wasted on my side.

Re:Honestly... I dislike Perlow. Intensely. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134909)

He didn't respond to your rants? And he dares call himself a journalist?

Re:Honestly... I dislike Perlow. Intensely. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135055)

Trouble is though: he was and is correct (at least on the desktop). So doesn't that make you look a little bit like an idiot?

Well... as with many things, "it depends." (1)

Slartibartfast (3395) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135407)

Personally, when I found that Linux didn't do what I wanted, I learned how to *make* it do it. This held true when automounting didn't use SunOS mappings, and when there were no office-suite-like applications. Does this make me a dork for wanting to use my favorite OS? I guess that's a matter of perspective. But I certainly didn't sit there, *in the employ of a Linux magazine*, and say "Sorry, folks: Linux will never be able be able to measure up -- might as well throw in the towel." Again: each has strengths, each has weaknesses. But when you're supposed to be showing people how best to make use of their favorite operating system -- indeed, most likely the entire reason they're buying your magazine -- you don't put it down because one of *your* favorite apps doesn't have a Linux version. That's just silly and egocentrical.

Re:Well... as with many things, "it depends." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136155)

So, that would be a yes, then?

Re:Honestly... I dislike Perlow. Intensely. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135413)

But, dammit: when you're writing for a Linux magazine, you eat the dogfood, you don't find reasons to prophesize that Linux will never be a contender. Which he did. Repeatedly.

But he was right correct? So go back to your pimp, you whore.

I don't like shills or insincerity. I'm not interested in hearing from people who "eat the dogfood" the way you seem to prefer (e.g. silently or saying it's great) instead of grumbling that it's shit because it is indeed shit. Just because you ignore it doesn't mean there is no problem. Or that the problem will get fixed.

Re:Honestly... I dislike Perlow. Intensely. (1)

westlake (615356) | about a year and a half ago | (#42136127)

But, dammit: when you're writing for a Linux magazine, you eat the dogfood, you don't find reasons to prophesize that Linux will never be a contender. Which he did. Repeatedly.

The geek would benefit from Cassandras and fewer Karl Roves.

Can't. Too much talent lost to Apple these days. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134565)

Linux guys need money. Linux guys give up on Linux. Linux guys go to work for Apple.

Access (3, Funny)

OpenSourced (323149) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134669)

In my experience, one thing blocking the adoption of Linux in corporate environments are MS-Access applications. Not only legacy ones, that could be moved, but the fact that there is nowhere to move them to. There is simply nothing that remotely approaches Access in the Linux world, and it's a pity.

Re:Access (4, Insightful)

sribe (304414) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134939)

In my experience, one thing blocking the adoption of Linux in corporate environments are MS-Access applications. Not only legacy ones, that could be moved, but the fact that there is nowhere to move them to. There is simply nothing that remotely approaches Access in the Linux world, and it's a pity.

Granted, my experience with Access is limited. But I do not find its lack to be a detriment for any platform.

Re:Access (1)

snadrus (930168) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135175)

There are 1-to-1 tools like LibreOffice Base. Those setups can move data to a shared RDBMS backend (MySQL & others) when concurrency is needed. Then with data in a database backend, any web tool from Ruby-on-Rails to PHP libraries can edit the data or render graphs.

Are You F#@king Kidding Me? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135539)

There are 1-to-1 tools like LibreOffice Base. Those setups can move data to a shared RDBMS backend (MySQL & others) when concurrency is needed.
Then with data in a database backend, any web tool from Ruby-on-Rails to PHP libraries can edit the data or render graphs.

Are You F#@king Kidding Me? Have you ever seen access? Have you seen Access 2010? LibreOffice Base is barely able to open the database files and edit a table. It is completely incapable of running an Access database application or even just a slightly complex database. I'm no fan of Access, but you can not be seriously offering LibreOffice Base as a drop in replacement for even Access 97.

Re:Access (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135767)

Base is garbage for situations where you have a lot of small ad-hoc datasets that are only needed for a week or two, and then hardly ever referenced again until the following year.

Nor can you easily hook a Base database to a pgsql server to a SQL server to another base database and move data around.

Fuck, the last time I bothered to look (around 3.0 or 3.1), you couldn't even export to/from CSV with Base. You had to go through the Calc tool and create a spreadsheet.

Base may be fine for sitting as a front-end to a static database which changes maybe once a season, but it's just garbage for day-to-day get-shit-done mode where your data might come in as a dozen different formats and needs to be exported to a bunch of others.

I've been waiting 5+ years to get off of Windows & MSAccess, but nobody in the open source world grasps what MSAccess is good at. They just poo-poo it as a toy.

Re:Access (1)

OpenSourced (323149) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135993)

LibreOffice Base is a good start, but is far from offering the ease of prototyping and reporting of Access. Also the forms are clunky in my experience. I've tried using it and found it very lacking. I had high hopes in it when it was announced, and hoped to replace Access with it, but I had to come back to Access shaking my head. One would say it isn't so difficult! Access offers a "good enough" RAD from Access 97, that is... 15 years ago! Somebody should have stitched together a scripting language, a database explorer, a form and a report development environment. And yes, the forms should use native controls, please. And every time I go to a new client, they end up asking us for some side application that ends up being done in Access because there is nothing half as good in OSS. And they get more and more locked in Windows.

I just helped a medium sized company shed off Office. They practically had no problems, apart from some Excel wizardies. Access apps were put into Access runtimes, to avoid paying Office licenses. But they cannot leave Windows, because these runtimes run only in Windows, and there is no easy way of porting these apps.

to many distros and linux moves a little to fast (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134699)

to many distros and linux moves a little to fast for most Enterprise user.

Look at the windows site lot's of enterprises are now just moving to 7.

also there is the apps as well.

Re:to many distros and linux moves a little to fas (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134929)

to many distros and linux moves a little to fast for most Enterprise user.

Not relevant. An enterprise user will be sticking with something for a number of years, so they'll end up with something that has an extended support duration like RHEL, SuSE, or (if Canonical is up to it) Ubuntu LTS.

Look at the windows site lot's of enterprises are now just moving to 7.

No surprise there. Vista was too fat and all the hardware they had for running XP on is old, slow, and dying.

Fodder (2)

pep939 (1957678) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134729)

Yet another less-than-noteworthy "news" article, ideal to generate clicks & comments...

Flash (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134741)

By making videos on Slashdot viewable on Linux, for one.

It's straight forward, native MS Office port (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42134873)

There are two things that can gain more enterprise acceptance.

1) Microsoft releases a native port of Office to Linux.
2) Disruptive technologies become available that wipe out the need for Microsoft Office (No OpenOffice has never been compatible enough to be useful in these environments).

The OS is secondary, its the apps that matters. The app enterprises rely on (desktop of course) is MS Office.

*MORE* traction in the enterprise??? (1)

sribe (304414) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134917)

WTF? Just recently I've been reading estimates that Microsoft's share in the Server OS market has dropped from 70% to 30% over the past several years. Where did that all go if not to Linux?

Well, OK, sometimes shops move up from Windows to Solaris--yes it really does happen--and sometimes smallish mediumish ones might put in a Mac. But I don't see anyway it could possibly be less than 90% of Windows' loss in share that has gone to Linux. So, as a rough guess, Microsoft losing 40 points equates to Linux gaining somewhere between 36 and 39.9 points. Essentially, this question, this person, and this argument seem to be 5-10 years behind.

This message brought to you by a guy who develops for Mac and (mostly) does not use Linux, BTW ;-)

You don't have to Windows, or make better Linux... (4, Insightful)

HerculesMO (693085) | about a year and a half ago | (#42134997)

You have to beat Microsoft Office.

And that is a game that has been tried, and failed many times. Enterprises aren't hooked to Windows as much as they are the tools they use on it. Excel being probably the biggest one. The amount of power that desktop app has is ridiculous, and while I can applaud all the open source flavors, nothing comes even close. You can't unseat Windows or make Linux more tractable in the enterprise without removing the dependence on Office.

You can make Linux awesome, make Samba a worthy AD competitor, but if you don't have the productivity suite that makes it amazing, the cost of a $90 Windows license is nothing compared to the productivity you'd give up to lose Excel. Here's a hint folks -- people don't look at the price of the OS, nor do they care. They look at the value of the suite of tools that allow an employee to work. If you could make a business case that a Calicovision would make you more productive than Windows, I think you'd see a swell of pilots testing it out.

Linux isn't being ignored because it's bad -- well... partly because it is, but that's more a Samba fix -- it's being ignored because it does not contain a worthwhile replacement to the jobs people are already doing, and the businesses already engrained in workflows that surround and use Office. And you will not break that mold easily, if ever. And it's why I still say Windows Phone is going to do well over time.... but I'll gladly eat my words if I'm wrong.

Re:You don't have to Windows, or make better Linux (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about a year and a half ago | (#42136065)

> You have to beat Microsoft Office ^H^H^H Outlook.
FTFY. Office per say isn't the problem -- the integrated calendar / contacts of Exchange is the problem that sadly Open Source (OS) hasn't quite solved (yet). :-(

> is nothing compared to the productivity you'd give up to lose Excel.
Having used Excel since before verison 5 ( http://www.cpearson.com/excel/versions.htm [cpearson.com] ) I find OpenOffice, sorry, Libre Office to be better in some ways and worse in others. LibreOffice is a perfectly fine replacement for Excel.

IMHO the main problem is Power Point which all the PHB seem to love. Maybe there is an OS replacement but I haven't seen one that will natively support .pptx properly.

> Linux isn't being ignored because it's bad - it's being ignored because it does not contain a worthwhile replacement to the jobs people are already doing
That is exactly right. If someone were to focus on Enterprise Linux providing all the functionality and apps that the full Office + Exchange does then businesses would switch over to Linux.

> the cost of a $90 Windows license is nothing compared to the productivity you'd give
Apologies to whoever recently posted this link but that is not quite true. For a "small business" the costs of licenses add up that could be used towards upgrading / replacing machines.

"Newsmaker: Rockin' on without Microsoft"
http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html [cnet.com]

Did he know he was recorded? (1)

roland_mai (852416) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135059)

I bet this guy had no idea he was being recorded. He looks like he just woke up. I kept staring at his beard thinking that a bird would come out of it, like in Family Guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnyEiXFyK10 [youtube.com]

Exchange and Printers (3, Informative)

LordLucless (582312) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135171)

It needs an app that can integrate/replace exchange. And no, Thunderbird+Lightning doesn't come close. Just for starters, it needs to allow people to view others' calendars, easily schedule meetings in other peoples' available time, allow booking of resources like rooms, etc.

Secondly, it needs to work with the massive multifunction printing systems out of the box. I realize this is dependant on printer manufacturers more than the Linux devs, but the end-user doesn't care about who's problem it is - all they know is that printers work on Windows, and don't on Linux.

I use Linux at my workplace; these are the two primary functions it can't fulfil.

Re:Exchange and Printers - Solved (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135619)

It needs an app that can integrate/replace exchange. And no, Thunderbird+Lightning doesn't come close. Just for starters, it needs to allow people to view others' calendars, easily schedule meetings in other peoples' available time, allow booking of resources like rooms, etc.

Secondly, it needs to work with the massive multifunction printing systems out of the box. I realize this is dependant on printer manufacturers more than the Linux devs, but the end-user doesn't care about who's problem it is - all they know is that printers work on Windows, and don't on Linux.

I use Linux at my workplace; these are the two primary functions it can't fulfil.

These problems have been solved, but you will have to pay for the solution.

1. Novell GroupWise is an enterprise groupware system that runs on Linux servers and clients, as well as Windows servers and clients. GroupWise 2012 is a legitimate and viable alternative to Exchange.

2. HP and Brother laser printers work great with Linux out of the box. Other brands do as well, but I am reluctant to cite specifics.

except one small issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135207)

Enterprise acceptance and the continual focus on pretty much that one single thing is what is hurting Linux and it's various distros not to mention the BSD's.

We already know Linux (whichever distro) kicks ass in the enterprise, which is why the majority of hosting services for major websites use it. What is lacking is acceptance as a average user desktop. One that can play games.... by that I mean new shiny games just out on the shelf, without having to use some archaic hack or WINE. Enterprise has always used computers since they were first introduced but games and then apps are what drive adoption to the masses. And that adoption translates to a much bigger audience not to mention more sales to enterprise sectors when workers are able to drop windows and run just linux or bsd, for gaming or applications, web or local or otherwise.

Microsoft Word and Office is not at all why processors have increased in speed or number of cores in such a short length of time. Neither is anything Microsoft has done vs linux a reason for the Ridiculous amount video cards have increased in speed, power and complexity.... games ARE. I don't mean to say ignore security concerns of the enterprise or anything else of that nature, but this narrowed focus on just them, is crippling adoption. I would rather see linux on 40%+ of the average desktop users computers than seeing a small minuscule amount of improvement for enterprise businesses.

They may have hundreds of millions to spend on hardware and software plus support which is nice, but if you were to be able to cater to the same audience of gamers and average computer users as MS has so far... you would have billions if not hundreds of billions in possible revenue in total.

It's not that hard of a choice to figure out. Especially since supporting gaming and desktop users does not mean you have to sacrifice any sort of enterprise performance or security.

Re:except one small issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135363)

PC games are a niche. Even if all PC gamers switched to Linux that would be less than 5% of all PC users. Idiots like yourself are delusional.

Missing the forest for the trees. (4, Informative)

Revotron (1115029) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135315)

Businesses don't use Windows just to use Windows. Businesses use Windows to use Office, Active Directory, and Exchange. Linux has competitors to all three but they're not even CLOSE, no matter how much the evangelists puff them up.

What do you get when you put a whole office on Linux? You get a bunch of people sitting around using Linux. But they're not doing anything productive. Nobody's paying them to use Linux. No customers are giving your company money to have an office full of people sit around and "use Linux". Linux is not the product, Linux is the platform. Right now, the Linux platform for enterprise is severely lacking in comparison to Windows. The "Why" is dreadfully simple: there are no serious products that give the platform value.

Focus community effort on building solid competitors to Office, Active Directory, and Exchange. Maybe try creating something completely new, or maybe just try to mimic the MS products as best you can. Mimic might be better, because then you can show them how similar your products are so the switching cost is minimal, yet one costs a whole lot less, therefore the TCO is much lower.

In case you haven't noticed, Microsoft likes to throw around TCO as their metric. That's because most businesses don't care about up-front cost, they focus on what you'll pay over the life of the product. Put the most amount of effort possible into minimizing the switching costs. Linux will become a much more viable desktop platform in the enterprise when you can demonstrate meaningful cost savings that take TCO into account. Until then, Microsoft will continue to give enterprise customers concrete and logical reasons for why they should choose their product over all others.

Re:Missing the forest for the trees. (1)

pep939 (1957678) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135775)

Too bad "You can't post & moderate the same discussion." because I would definitely have moderated your comment up.

Outsourcing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42135367)

Has guys like this sitting at home looking like they just got out of bed and have no job, also windows in prevalent on desktops to the point where you can use Linux in the desktop, using Linux in windows is horrific

very very obvious overlooked answer (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year and a half ago | (#42135793)

As a pro-open source IT manager for a medium sized company, I can tell you with certainty that besides software compatibility, the #2 problem is letting me do close to everything in a GUI. I don't have time to sit there and type 50 text commands just to install Java or reconfigure some little system setting. Where's the right click, run as root, password prompting super simple sequence?
Also nobody at my company knows how to use Linux, I don't know anything about configure whatever the equivilant of group policy objects there is in Linux land, and I have no way of knowing if sound and video and networking drivers exist for a PC until I buy/build it. Those are other noteworthy obstacles. Honestly, I'd pull a 1980's Apple strategy (but not with schools). I'd try to get home desktops to run Linux first so that it's what people get used to. Then everyone will know how to use it and enterprise software will pop up for it and vendors will write drivers for it just based on that increased volume alone. That solves a lot of problems automatically.

The perfect salesman. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42136111)

Knows he's going on video. Can't bother to comb hair. Yeah, that will win over corporations.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>