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310 comments

I Wonder? (5, Interesting)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160059)

I wonder if win8 will ever pass the xp market share

Re:I Wonder? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160081)

Oh boy, I sure can't wait to install an OS with a phone interface on my desktop/laptop, that makes so much sense!

Re:I Wonder? (4, Informative)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160087)

Oh boy, I sure can't wait to install an OS with a phone interface on my desktop/laptop, that makes so much sense!

So use the desktop interface then. It's still there.

Re:I Wonder? (0, Flamebait)

epyT-R (613989) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160097)

yah the same way freedom 'is still there' in current US domestic policy!

Re:I Wonder? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160115)

There was a incident where a police had shot a black man in the back and then went and plant a gun next to him and say that the guy had had a gun on him. What we found out after the investigation is: guy didn't have no gun. Police just shot a man cold blood.

Re:I Wonder? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160217)

The guy did NOT have NO gun? So what are you trying to tell us what what relevance does it have in this discussion?

Re:I Wonder? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160269)

I ain't the other AC, but there ain't no explaining nothing to you. ;)

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160321)

Well. That escalated quickly.

Re:I Wonder? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160371)

There was a incident where a police had shot a black man in the back and then went and plant a gun next to him and say that the guy had had a gun on him. What we found out after the investigation is: guy didn't have no gun. Police just shot a man cold blood.

Your ebonics are wonderful good sir, I'm glad you have learned to use a computer.

Re:I Wonder? (1)

vistapwns (1103935) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160125)

Who'd a thunk that all the grievance industries are interrelated.

Re:I Wonder? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160495)

I didn't think I'd like all the changes in Win 8 but after using for a week or two I quite like it. It took a few days to get used to it as I have no touch peripherals for my desktop. Controlling it with with a mouse and keyboard was annoying at first but all things considered I think Microsoft did pretty well with this release. They have certainly done worse in the past.

Re:I Wonder? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160545)

I used to think that MyCleanPC was a virus, but after reading about someone's experience with it right here on Slashdot, I tried it out, and it solved all of my problems! No longer do I need to put up with viruses! No longer do I need to put up with crashes, freezes, and the like! No longer do I need to put up with a slow computer! MyCleanPC... fixed it all!

-Your comment

Re:I Wonder? (4, Funny)

RobertLTux (260313) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160521)

but the problem is you get Metro going MEESA IMPORTANT LOOK AT MEES NOWZ!!! every five minutes or so

Re:I Wonder? (4, Insightful)

Nyder (754090) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160653)

Oh boy, I sure can't wait to install an OS with a phone interface on my desktop/laptop, that makes so much sense!

So use the desktop interface then. It's still there.

No point. I'll stick with Windows 7 myself. It works just great, no point in upgrading.

Re:I Wonder? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160753)

You mean downgrading.

Re:I Wonder? (5, Interesting)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160771)

So use the desktop interface then. It's still there.

You should have a look at this usability report [useit.com] which will help you understand it better. Basic summary: applications are written for either the desktop or the Metro interface. Where the apps are written for a particular interface you have to use that interface to use the app. There are some places where two different apps have the same name on both sides (for example "Internet Explorer" exists as both a Metro and a Desktop app) but you can see that they are separate from the way that they don't show the same Window list. Imagine the confusion which can happen if you use "Metro Internet Explorer" started from another metro app and then a desktop app also opens "Classic Internet Explorer".

All this confusiion adds up to an interface which very much slows down and confuses the user.

Re:I Wonder? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160117)

Durr, hurr, you must be afraid of change! Herp, derp, astroturf.

Re:I Wonder? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160587)

like you morons that claim you cant use linux or gimp...

Re:I Wonder? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160121)

That way there's no cognitive effort when switching between your phone and your desktop.

I'm looking forward to the Microsoft car, which will have a bicycle seat and controls.

Re:I Wonder? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160177)

Oh boy, I sure can't wait to install an OS with a phone interface on my desktop/laptop, that makes so much sense!

Don't forget that it is a phone OS from a company that nobody buys phones from.

CAPTCHA: horrible

Re:I Wonder? (2, Interesting)

H0p313ss (811249) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160331)

Oh boy, I sure can't wait to install an OS with a phone interface on my desktop/laptop, that makes so much sense!

That's what I said too. But as a technologist I need to keep my hand in with operating systems so I installed Win 8 on my mac through bootcamp.

It's kind of rough around the edges, but it's still better than most Linux desktops, and better in many ways.

I'm not convinced that the general public will pick up on this, but Win 8 is probably a better fit for inexperienced users than anything else out there right now.

Re:I Wonder? (5, Informative)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160837)

on this, but Win 8 is probably a better fit for inexperienced users than anything else out there right now.

Please remember that it's for usability it's better to go with testing with multiple users than opinion since what seems to an technology expert to be good for a beginner might not actually be. In this case the testing has been done and a summary is avialable [useit.com] .

having two environments on a single device is a prescription for usability problems for several reasons

  • Users have to learn and remember where to go for which features
  • [..]
  • Switching between environments increases the interaction cost of using multiple features.
  • [etc... ]

Read the full report to get the rest. Basically added to an interface which has been designed for graphic effect rather than usability:

the new look sacrifices usability on the altar of looking different than traditional GUIs

this all adds up to a system which will take much longer to learn and have much higher training costs than other UIs which exist currently, including Windows 7.

Re:I Wonder? (3, Interesting)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160461)

Oh boy, I sure can't wait to install an OS with a phone interface on my desktop/laptop, that makes so much sense!

Of course it makes sense . . . for Microsoft. You see, you're not supposed to use a keyboard or mouse to interface with your Windows 8 desktop/laptop. You're supposed to use your Windows 8 Phone, connected to your desktop/laptop, as your interface. Your Windows 8 Phone is the keyboard and mouse. This means that every Windows 8 desktop/laptop user will need to buy a Windows 8 Phone, as well. Microsoft is doing this because their Nokia subsidiary is not doing so well, because Nokia is selling Windows 8 Phones, instead of iPhones or Androids. Or Blackberries.

So you don't need to worry about installing a phone interface on your desktop/laptop. You will be using your Windows 8 Phone to interface with it anyway.

Does that sound bizarre enough for a Sunday morning?

Re:I Wonder? (0)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160611)

1) Nokia is not a subsidiary of Microsoft.
2) You don't connect your phone, I'm not even sure Windows 8 supports phone input at all. What you should be doing though is buying a touchscreen monitor

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160869)

I'm not sure how productive you are with your computer, but if I had to keep my arms stretched out in front of me all day to use my computer, which is only capable of showing me one thing at a time, I would go completely insane and would probably have sore arms and shoulders. No thanks... I hope MS realizes that people are actually getting smarter when it comes to computers and not dumber as they seem to be designing for. One size fits all absolutely does not work in this case. I have tried windows 8, and I can tell you that it might work ok for a phone or touchpad, but as a laptop/desktop interface, I would be significantly less productive and would switch to ANY other OS at any cost.

Re:I Wonder? (2)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160917)

People are actually getting dumber. The accumulated traditions are becoming a problem. Computer literacy has been declining for a decade.

And you don't keep your arms stretched out all the time. You lift your hand from the keyboard to hit the screen once in a while, the same way you lift your hands to hit the mouse.

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160715)

This means that every Windows 8 desktop/laptop user will need to buy a Windows 8 Phone, as well.

Making every iPhone app developer buy a Macintosh has worked out very well for Apple.

Re:I Wonder? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160085)

I hope so. I especially hope that Windows XP usage drops significantly up until April 2014 when the support ends. By then at least all companies still using XP should have moved, they usually care about those things.

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160181)

99% of companies get minimal support from Microsoft today. Automatic updates may close some security holes every now and then, while opening others. Most security holes are in (Microsoft) applications, which still should receive the updates. So why would they care about dropping support, let alone be a reason to throw away all there hardware and most incompatible software, and invest a lot of money (form where?) to build a new system ?
Most small and middle companies run on OEM or retail licences, which remain perfectly valid after support has dropped. (Volume licensing is only an upgrade on top of an OEM or retail licence.)

Re:I Wonder? (2)

Keruo (771880) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160211)

Volume licensing is only an upgrade

Or downgrade.
If you have active SA on machine that has pro/ultimate sticker, it gives you permission to run W8, W7, Vista, XP, Windows 2000, NT4 or DOS6.22 & W3.11.
Yes there's also 2 and 1 but all applications on them run on W3.11 anyway.

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160189)

I hope so. I especially hope that Windows XP usage drops significantly up until April 2014 when the support ends. By then at least all companies still using XP should have moved, they usually care about those things.

More likely they'll switch to windows 7 and then wait for 9 or whatever (or say 13 if Microsoft are serious about having a new version every year). At work we couldn't even get it to support multiple monitors properly before giving up in disgust.

Re:I Wonder? (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160593)

I know of systems that are making $1500 an hour that still run Windows 2000. OS Vendor Tech support means nothing to most companies.

Re:I Wonder? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160637)

Sounds a bit irresponsible to run such important systems on operating systems which no longer receives security patches.

As opposed to one WHICH NEEDS THEM? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160775)

As opposed to running the latest OS with all the holes waiting to be discovered? All that new code, yet to be field tested, all those new holes to be tested out in the wild LIVE, with YOUR production system?

Patches are failure you know. They have unwanted side effects that break production systems. The best thing you can get is a system so thoroughly attacked that it no longer has new vulnerabilities against it that are viable. Then don't upgrade.

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160801)

If it's not connected to the internet, what's the problem?

Re:I Wonder? (5, Insightful)

penix1 (722987) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160361)

I wonder if win8 will ever pass the xp market share

Microsoft's biggest competitor has always been itself. This is an effect of having the software pre-installed and aiming for the unwashed masses who don't go beyond what they got with the machines.

As a side note, for shits and giggles I just ran the Windows 8 upgrade assistant and it informs me I will have to dump almost a quarter of the applications I use daily and that my screen resolution was too low for snap (whatever that is). It also informs me the touchscreen I have (HP Tx2Z) isn't compatible and that gestures won't work right. Now the question is why I should update and lose perfectly good software I purchased and is working right now as well as system functionality that is working right now just to have the "latest" version of an OS? Why should I go through the pain of the update when I don't need to? That will always be the Microsoft fight and why XP is hanging in there for so long.

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160743)

One of the common fantasies of the anti-Windows crowd is that Windows users are poor ignorant fools who don't know any better. In fact Windows is almost universal in corporate America. Just go to your local bank branch and open your eyes.Incidentally fooling around with OS upgrades is nearly exclusively a hobbyist pastime neither the typical home nor corporate users ever upgrades their OS

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160919)

Why did you skip 7?

Re:I Wonder? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160375)

Oh boy! I can't wait to be an uninformed luddite and not realize that the classic Desktop interface is still present for Mouse and Keyboard operation!

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160549)

Hmmm... Did Vista ever pass Windows XP? It appears not [wikipedia.org] , but I'm not sure if there was a point where it historically passed it before waning.

Wait, I just noticed the same data means Win 8 hasn't passed Vista yet. I guess that will be the first milestone.

Re:I Wonder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160911)

Just got a shipment from newegg. Enclosed was a flyer for a "Windows 8 Game" whereby one could win a copy of Windows 8. I smell fear.

I really don't like Windows 8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160065)

I really don't like Windows 8. No one can tell me relevant advantages about Windows 8, it has new problems and the interface s.ucks.

Re:I really don't like Windows 8 (4, Interesting)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160141)

There are few advantages, such as minor performance improvements and some of the Metro apps are actually quite nice for a notebook or tablet: IE10, Windows Mail, the 3rd party Wikipedia and Khan Academy apps. That being said, I felt that the constant flicking through Start screen, Desktop and Metro apps was ultimately rather painful. They really are like two worlds that don't integrate at all. Also, the graphics are crappy. You could say it is minimalism, but I see it just as having no style at all. Just look at the startup logo or the volume indicator popup as examples. As a little side issue, I experienced audio buffer underruns which does not happen under Win7 with the same laptop.

For a Joe Sixpack machine, I suppose Win8 is just fine. For a power user desktop, it's a turd.

Re:I really don't like Windows 8 (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160343)

For a Joe Sixpack machine, I suppose Win8 is just fine. For a power user desktop, it's a turd.

I wouldn't say a turd, but it's certainly not aimed at power users. If Joe Sixpack and his woman spend all their time in Facebook and Hotmail it might just be the best thing since Spiced Ham.

Re:I really don't like Windows 8 (1, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160601)

Then why buy an overpriced turd machine with Win8? A $199 Chromebook will be better for them.

Re:I really don't like Windows 8 (1)

StormyWeather (543593) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160683)

so as a power user you actually navigate to what you want to run instead of just hitting the windows key types the first few letters of the app and hitting enter?

Re:I really don't like Windows 8 (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160861)

No, as a power user I run more than one thing at a time. Let me give you a simple example. For several years I have used Windows 7 and done this simple thing: Watch a webcast from a site like twit.tv and play a game of freecell while watching it. This worked great on Windows 7. On Windows 8, Freecell is not built int - but you can get it free from MS in their Windows Store. It is a huge (196 MB) download, but it installs fine. Every time you launch it, it asks you to sign in to xbox live (I guess MS forgot that solitaire means "alone"). There is no setting to make it stop asking. Then, it is FULL SCREEN. On my 27 inch monitor. There is no way to make it anything but either 100% or 80% (with that Metro Snap thing where you can put a tiny strip of a second metro app up next to it). No webcast I have seen fits in the 20% space without being too tiny to watch. So that simple workflow: watch a webcast while playing freecell no longer works unless you hook up a second monitor. I've been using Windows 8 as my primary OS for 9 months now and I still hate it. Whoever thought that apps should always be full screen on large monitors is an idiot.

Good going (1)

cognoscentus (1628459) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160077)

39% market share ain't bad at all for a nearly twelve year old OS. Glad to see that a superior product (albeit rather bloated by default) has already overtaken it though.

Photoshop angry birds (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160089)

Finally!
I can Photoshop Angry Birds! You don't know how I've been missing the feature to be able to run Angry Birds AND full blown photoshop, and all for the bargain price of $999.99!

Plus I get to use Active Directory, letting me leverage my work network for printing out all those Word documents on the exciting ribbon interface.

Sometimes on a cold morning, I miss the warmth of a Pentium, I'd sacrifice some of my battery to make, say, some sort of leg warmer, maybe even with a fan to blow the warm air! If only somebody would make me one of those tablet thingies with a lap warmer, I'd be happy!

Re:Photoshop angry birds (1)

Drakonblayde (871676) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160153)

Your enthusiasm has convinced me, even if I still harbor doubts as to your sincerity! I must have one of these things as well!

WinXP and FLP live on... (3, Informative)

bmo (77928) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160127)

...in virtual machines, because honestly, everything Vista and above is so freakin' huge.

And to what benefit all that resource suckage adds up to, I'm still not sure.

--
BMO

You've never tried Windows 8 then (4, Informative)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160183)

It works quite well in 512MB in a VM. Try it on a hypervisor that can do dynamic memory some time (Hyper-V and ESX can). Set it to 512MB minimum and a plenty high max. Fire it up, watch it drop to 512MB used.

Also if you are planning on using XP in VMs you'd better either plan on taking them off the net or plan on moving to something else since support for it ends in 2014 and running a networked OS that doesn't get patches is a bad idea.

Re:You've never tried Windows 8 then (4, Funny)

bmo (77928) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160353)

Well, that's the advantage of virtual machines.

Severe bondage and discipline for Windows OSes with no safeword.

--
BMO

Re:You've never tried Windows 8 then (0)

dbIII (701233) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160359)

Just put it under the adult supervision of an OS that can handle networking properly (with the right firewall settings this can be a recent one from Microsoft), or have one between you and the internet. If the application that you are bothering to run the WM with XP on it for doesn't even look out on the network it's a non-issue anyway. It's not as if people are going to be using IE6 or some elder horror as their main web browser.

About all I can see these things communicating with is some network drive shares. After all, the point of running a legacy OS in a VM is to run legacy software that won't work on Win7. Thanks to DLL hell and various other annoyances there is plenty, especially Visual Basic stuff or things designed to get the moving target of MS Office to do the heavy lifting. Most of it could be argued as not being Microsoft's fault and due to third party software that is really utter crap even if it gets the job done, but I'm not looking to blame, I'm just rambling about some situations where XP (or Win2k) in a VM makes sense and network security can be handled externally.

At one point I was trying to run something in an old version of Solaris (SunOS5.5!) on Sparc in a VM on x86 via an emulator - lots of things would run but not the legacy app. Sometimes it's worth giving up, shelling out for the cheapest hardware that will run the app, and just letting a dedicated machine do the job. In that case Solaris10 on Sparc with zones did the job a hell of a lot better than a VM would - sometimes a virtual machine is just a hack for when your operating system is not mature enough to be able to properly separate things and can't be tweaked to provide true backwards compatibility without breaking current applications. The abandonware in question (from back before a simple vector graphics print spooler app was rewritten around a database and the rewrite was never really completed), THINKS it's running in SunOS5.5 with the hostid of a computer built in 1992, but it's really running on something that is now doing other stuff in Solaris10 and just has that app running in a zone thinking it's on SunOS5.5. Solaris11 can do the same thing but I set that box up before it came out.

Re:You've never tried Windows 8 then (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160433)

512MB? Are you fucking kidding me?
A updated XP SP3 with default services running idles at < 100MB...

Re:You've never tried Windows 8 then (5, Interesting)

Archimonde (668883) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160513)

If it runs so well, how do you explain that those metro programs are total pigs in terms of running them? I have a fairly fast computer with SSD and even microsoft's metro apps take 10 seconds to open. On the same computer, photoshop takes 3.5 seconds to open. It just painful to watch those those full screen loading screens for applications which are gui-wise not much complex than win3.1 programs.
 

Re:You've never tried Windows 8 then (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160627)

Off the net is perfectly fine for some of us.

I run Win2K in a VM to run those rare MSWindows-only applications. They may dial up to get updates, but they're effectively behind a couple NATs so I'm not expecting them to get infected.

And if they do get infected, just reimage it.

Re:WinXP and FLP live on... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160185)

Also thanks to this little open source effort [reactos.org] .

Re:WinXP and FLP live on... (2)

gagol (583737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160191)

And to what benefit all that resource suckage adds up to, I'm still not sure.

-- BMO

I like to believe it benefits storage vendors...

Our way or the FLOSS way (4, Interesting)

sqrt(2) (786011) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160137)

I support a lot of XP machines and in general the owners still love the OS because they are familiar with it. It's going to be around for a long, long time. I predict marketshare will continue dropping as it has until it reaches about 10% where it'll stabilize for a couple years despite being completely unsupported, losing perhaps 1-2% per year after that until completely dropping off the radar.

MS is in a unique position with their OS because in general all new PCs ship with the newest version of Windows. So they can force Windows 8 into the market just by refusing to license it to OEMs for default installs and then waiting long enough for consumers to upgrade their hardware. That takes years, but as we saw with Windows 7 it's a predictable and regular process.

The only question is, will MS stick to their guns and force this paradigm shift, or will they relent like they did with Vista and make Windows 8 a short-lived intermediate OS for whatever comes next? Maybe the next version of Windows will see a return to a more classic desktop paradigm similar to Windows 7, with metro being entirely optional. Maybe the next version will split into two, metro being aimed at consumer and tablet hardware and a Windows 7 style OS to keep corporate users happy. Sadly, I think the most likely outcome will be the first one. MS isn't going to relent. This is what they want their OS to be and that's the last word. "Corporate world, you better get used to it. You know you can't ditch Windows, Office, and Exchange." They're betting on the pain of switching to Linux or OS X (which strangely could now provide a more familiar experience to Windows users than MS's newest offering) being worse than the pain of learning this new family of software. And I think they'll get away with it just by shear momentum. To hurry adoption along even more I expect them to be more aggressive with Windows 7's EOL schedule than they were with XP, which was generous to start and then extended.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (1, Flamebait)

bogaboga (793279) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160237)

To hurry adoption along even more I expect them to be more aggressive with Windows 7's EOL schedule than they were with XP, which was generous to start and then extended.

Here's what they'll do:

Announce a critical "newly discovered" bug in Windows XP whose only remedy is one of the following: -

(1) Upgrade to the newest and greatest OS,
(2) Take the system offline, or
(3) Run an update, which degrades previously running applications.

They will add that option 1 is the safest. When this happens, all those 10% remaining holdouts will `toe the line`, so to speak.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160431)

Of course, not!
There already is an appreciable fraction of those remaining XP installs that have stuck to SP2 or lower, either because they have a pirated serial number that cannot install SP3 or because the owner heard that SP3 causes problems so you better not install it.
Do you think they care if they are rooted?
The computer is just an appliance for them, and budget precludes buying a new one whenever Microsoft likes them to.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (1)

Tagged_84 (1144281) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160271)

I'd find it rather odd if either Apple or MS put much more effort into the classic desktop, they'd be going against progress and the market. Whether you like it or not, the classic desktop is magnitudes more difficult to operate for the vast majority of humans than the task-based interfaces we're getting with touch devices. I just don't see a file-based system having a future in any major OS other than Linux. We're on the verge of AI based agents being a common interface using natural language processing and this will be even easier to use, which means complex file-based systems will look even more ancient and complex for someone used to just speaking to a computer (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc [youtube.com] )

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (3, Interesting)

digitalchinky (650880) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160397)

You have a source for your claim that the classic desktop is magnitudes more difficult to operate? From my purview, which is no different than yours, the world wants their old interface back, be that classic Gnome or Windows. A vast generalization, but the desktop PC creates, the future you imagine involves consumption and finding abstract buzzwords to describe the same old file system that'll be with us for a few more decades yet.

Get back to me when you have an AI agent that can facilitate writing code more accurately and faster than I can type it.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (1)

Tagged_84 (1144281) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160455)

From my view the world is using smartphones, and hence task-based OS, much more than file-based. Perhaps you hang around too many other IT enthusiasts rather than an array of backgrounds? Sure it could be the same old file system, but the overlaying interface won't be the same old file-based view.

Where did I say anything about coding? I'm a developer and I know I'll be one of the last to abandon the desktop because it's the only one I know how to code on. The vast majority are consumers not creators, you should keep that in mind.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (2)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160659)

He's right. Computer literacy has been dropping for about a decade now among kids. The accumulated historical traditions is getting too much for kids to adapt to.

Take your filesystem. The application / open / use / save / close motif is great for dual floppy. It is a terrible paradigm for single SSD. The majority of people don't understand that filesystem is a "where" type question. I can't understand how that's possible but yes the poster is right, people suck at traditional desktops and the problem is getting worse each year as the young are more distant from the system for which are paradigms are designed.

In terms of what is underneath the interface, I suspect that we are going to move towards database filesystem like you have on minis and mainframes and away from the filesystem being as naive as it is.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (3, Funny)

kestasjk (933987) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160409)

Speaking your commands is definitely the way of the future, but I think they also need to make the window manager 3D if they want to stay ahead of the game.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160367)

A few weeks ago I upgraded a guy that was on XP with the Win2k style desktop theme to Win7 with the Win2k style desktop theme. While a few things have moved he's using it about the same way he used XP, and he was already on the "ribbon" version of MS Office.
Going from a hard drive made in 2006 to a SSD may have made up for any annoyance about differences :)

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160551)

It's just that using the Windows 2000 theme turns off desktop compositing.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (1)

Kjella (173770) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160419)

The only question is, will MS stick to their guns and force this paradigm shift, or will they relent like they did with Vista and make Windows 8 a short-lived intermediate OS for whatever comes next?

How did Microsoft in any way "relent" with Vista? It was their leading platform for 2.5 years and people were refusing to upgrade from 5+ year old XP installs. If people act in the same way towards Win8 their sales will be weak for many years until they can finally push Win7 so 2015-2020 or so.

To hurry adoption along even more I expect them to be more aggressive with Windows 7's EOL schedule than they were with XP, which was generous to start and then extended.

The end of sales date is not set, but the EOL dates for Win7 are:
Mainstream support: January 12, 2015
Extended support: January 14, 2020

Anyway, their extension was actually pretty much according to their stated support policy:

Mainstream Support for Business and Developer products will be provided for 5 years or for 2 years after the successor product (N+1) is released, whichever is longer. Microsoft will also provide Extended Support for the 5 years following Mainstream support or for 2 years after the second successor product (N+2) is released, whichever is longer.

For some reason Windows goes under this clause with extended support, even the home versions of XP, Vista and Win7. Since Vista was not released until January 30, 2007 the mainstream support must be at least to January 30, 2009 and the extended support then to January 30, 2014. The actual date is in April 2014. So it's not kindness from Microsoft, it's following their own stated policy.

Re:Our way or the FLOSS way (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160635)

I don't think they will relent. They absolutely positively must have a system capable of operating in the new form factors like tablets and phones. If they didn't sell a single license during all of 2013 it would be worth it to force the paradigm shift.

Further Windows 8 on Windows 8 hardware is good and people like it. So there is no reason to relent. The pain so far is:

a) You have to (really should) replace your hardware
b) You have to change multiple application workflows.

For Small Business / consumers changing hardware and changing OS are the same thing so (a) isn't a problem. While for enterprise desktops aren't a huge percentage of expenses. (b) is an issue but switching to Linux or OSX is going to be more traumatic, most likely.

I don't know if they EOL Windows 7 when. Windows 7 for enterprise, Windows 8 for SB / Cons is a nice line up. They enterprise side is not in as much danger of being disrupted by iOS and Android so they can afford to more slowly.

The Linux desktop beating Windows... (3, Funny)

ndogg (158021) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160155)

8?

Truly, 2013 will be the year of the Linux desktop!

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160225)

Let me know when Ubuntu can do something simple like change the amount of lines scrolled with the mouse wheel.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (3, Funny)

lannocc (568669) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160293)

Each application captures the scroll events and handles them on their own. There is no system-wide setting. Perhaps a hardware abstraction layer could be written.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (3, Informative)

Teun (17872) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160317)

Ubuntu offers a fully configurable experience in the KDE desktop, just an apt-get away!

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (5, Informative)

bmo (77928) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160329)

>Let me know when Ubuntu can do something simple like change the amount of lines scrolled with the mouse wheel.

http://i.imgur.com/tfca6.png [imgur.com]

Look how silly you are. Look.

--
BMO

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160393)

Let me know when zoom using the scroll wheel can be made to work in Autocad on Winodws 7 Dell laptops, without (regularly) disabling the scroll-bars.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160559)

Let me know when Ubuntu can do something simple like change the amount of lines scrolled with the mouse wheel.

KDE allows configuring this.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160617)

Let me know when windows can do the same. Because under windows 8 that behavior is NOT consistant.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160699)

That reminds me of my favorite Windows gripe, having to specifically focus a GUI element with a mouse click before I can scroll it with my mouse-wheel..

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160243)

Linux already exists and thrives on over 100 million smartphones/tablets. Game. Set. Match.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160567)

He was talking about the year of Linux desktop. The Linux kernel has been doing fine for a decade and is widespread on various embedded devices. And the kernel itself is not anymore a bottleneck to build an awesome desktop upon, either. It's all about the GUI stuff on top of it now.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160621)

Why would you want to use a desktop? You either use a tablet or a workstation. the desktop is dead.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160249)

8?

Truly, 2013 will be the year of the Linux desktop!

or the year of no desktop ? Both Intel & MS have abandoned the desktop. Android (Linux under the hood) has won on the current hot platform (smartphone) & apparently the next predicted hot platform (Vusix / Google Glass).

Disclaimer: I am an MVP with 15 years experience of software engineering skills wasted on MS products going down the toilet.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (3, Funny)

kestasjk (933987) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160445)

Pfft.. 2013 is the year when Windows RT/8 on Surface will force Linux to retreat out of tablets/smartphones and back onto Chinese "smart-fridge" interfaces and escalator firmware where it belongs.

Disclaimer: I am a Red Hat Certified consultant with 20 years UNIX experience looking on in terror as Microsoft renders my life obsolete.

Re:The Linux desktop beating Windows... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160851)

Nah, Windows 7 is the new XP. Just add 10 years.

It's just a start screen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160207)

It's similar to OSX's Launchpad or even Wii's "channels". For the haters there are over 9000 start menu replacements, just like Cinnamon, MATE, LXDE, XFCE and RazorQT are replacements for Gnome3/Unity. I like Windows 8 and I'm a neckbeard who knew how to install Gentoo before it became a /g/ meme.

Vista never cracked 19% let alone challenge XP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160227)

Does anyone truly beleive 8 is going to do much better? http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

Charmingly Simple ? (1)

burni2 (1643061) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160339)

Hi,

just my 222 cents,

Windows NT 5.1 (or WindowsXP like most of you like to call it) has except the Luna theme many good traits from windows NT 5 (2000) which from the point of Windows XP was and is also excessivly used.

For WindowsXP it was easy to kill Windows2000 later because the people found out the ways to make it look like windows2000 and btw. they found the windowsXP "gold key" that gave them till 2-3 years ago to use the update service without installing virus infrested 40 day crack resetting tools. Well Microsoft closed that golden oportunity for a reason, to make it easier to kill windowsXP. Also the release of ServicePack 1 and later ServicePack 2 fixed many serious issues.

With Windows2000 having reached Service Pack incarnation 4 and Windows XP having reached Service Pack incarnation 3 (we should just count 1 or 2 up, because when updating from SP3 it's around 300-500 mb that equals to 2 ServicePacks)

You can now tell how hard it was for Windows 7 to battle the persitence of WindowsXP.
Windows7 gained acceptance just shortly in the corporate world, that will make Windows8 perhaps the new Windows Vista

Microsoft should go back to it's roots (Windows2k/XP)
And Linux/GUI devellopers and LibreOffice Devellopers should not jump the ribbon,
Windows2000/XP(w/o Luna) and Office 2k/XP/2k3 had from MPOV the neatest look and best working experience, except for Excel we can't have more than 16-bit rows data .. sorry Stuck in the 16-bit World.

Probably Never (2)

Tridus (79566) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160349)

Vista never got close, and it was because corporate users ignored it en-masse. Microsoft still counted sales because new PCs came with it, but they were immediately reimaged back to XP so never showed up in the usage stats. 7 is now passing XP because companies are now shifting to 7 (gradually). Few of them have any interest in switching to 8 due to the expense, retraining, and general lack of things making it worth doing for a large company.

On top of that, with Microsoft's new plan to go to more frequent, smaller OS updates, "8" will only be on sale for a comparatively short period of time before the next update. Are they going to call that update Windows 8? Probably not. 8's reputation isn't exactly stellar in many circles, and they can polish up the rough edges and use the update for a rebrand.

wtf (2, Informative)

trifish (826353) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160379)

Where do those stats came from and how old are they?

Latest stats from two well-known sources show quite different numbers:

NetApplications - North America + Europe:
Win7 43%
WinXP 21%
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10&qpaf=-000%09100%090%0DO000%09100%091%0D [hitslink.com]

Statcounter - WORLDWIDE
Win7 53%
WinXP 26%
Source: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201111-201211 [statcounter.com]

What? XP still near 40%? (2)

demon driver (1046738) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160383)

After Microsoft stopped to sell it four years ago? With that-what-must-not-be-named, which was intended to widely replace it, having become available nearly five years ago from now? And with even Windows 7 now being around for more than three years?

I'd say, that's the important message behind the headline, and it's a good one, because it's continued proof that even Microsoft users, even when "the company is doing everything it can to get its users off Windows XP", as TFA says, don't eat every shit they're getting served. And, with Windows 8, there's good hope that Microsoft will be the ones who are going to choke on a new version of Windows, again.

Re:What? XP still near 40%? (1)

grantspassalan (2531078) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160497)

I still use windows XP to control some legacy hardware. However that old computer is not ever connected to the Internet, so it is not going to show up on surveys of net connections. It is likely that there are still quite a few computers using XP that are used to control specialized hardware which the manufacturers thereof have never updated to a more recent version of Windows or who have long gone out of business. Therefore, the number of copies of Windows XP in use could still be considerably higher than stated in the article.

AS THE MOST DIEHARD XP GUY ON /. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160477)

I have to say I think those numbers ARE accurate.

Now to Grind it the fuck up... Little Pesky fucking High School, College Students, need an essay?

"My WORLD as a Giant for a day"

Oh if I my WORLD were a giant for a day, I recently seen some shit said there are skeletons 36' tall! (Go Google it bitch)
I'm only 5', 9" now, but to grow to 36'?

The bone from my foot to knee cap, with nice fitted $720 ($20 times 36) KMART Size 324 (Size 9 times 36) Combat Boots from my shoe collection, squish my old 5', 9" body like a fucking bug!

I can lift maybe 200Lbs back in the 70's, so say times 36, I could lift 7200 Lbs, oh to pick up a BUS off of you, a fucking superman! Even Half " jesus TITS! "

My friends all now at 36 feet, I have about 100 such real face to face friends right where I live, can you imagine if me and my friends tried to lift a giant stone?
If I can lift 7200, together we could lift 720,000 lbs in ONE GO! On the other hand the fucking gas bill and beer and pizza would SUCK!!!

Can you imagine my cb radio and soldering iron times 36? I have a uniden 2950, if am, fm, upper/lower/ssb, cw from (modded)26MHz to 30Mhz then what about how advanced and powerfull that would be! Maybe even new technology since my fucking brain is bigger!? What does that say about my 4WD? My galaxy @24MHz?

But I digress, I @ 5'9" can swim in a lake today about 1 mile, so make it 36 miles. RIGHT?! RIGHT MOTHERFUCKER!!!?
How many days swimming at that rate to hawaii? Japan? China? England? What if I walk to the Coast and build a Canoe First? If I can paddle 2-3 knots, what say it's times 36? 1 knot = 1.15077945 miles per hour 36 knots?

How about Me, and my friends carry a fuckin 720,000 LBS stone 36 Miles in one day, Oh wait I was talking about swimming, if talking about walking I can do 14 miles a day, easy, it's a rounded two hour up, two hour back, let's round it? say 10 miles whole thing. times 36. whoops... I guess were are making several trips and more than one stone. Dear reader I HOPE you understand where I am going with this. That means by a safety factor of two, or compensating for being buzzed on Beer, lets say it's only a 350,000 LB stone?! Let's even slow my walking down...Say four hours one way. Let's Speed it up on a bike! 30 minutes?

Edit out thought: If there's a wire in a circle (think big) and it's a broken circle non overlapping, no electricity inside right? I'm looking at ancient sites with circles, WHY?
Um, makes me think about that tuned crystal in that copper box in a pure vaccum in space getting a solar panel charge to resonate and an antenna also bolted on to broadcast said signal at a target, which then has rectenna that demodulates into pure energy bla bla rectum fire it down to 117 VAC @ 60 Hz +-.5% right right ? *36 * 3 = 108 phases @ 117 VAC?
  END THOUGHT.

NEW THOUGHT: Now let's visit some Ancient sites.

The thing I can't figure is
WHY would I want to build (or help move)
these giant fucking stones for small people?
The little itsy bitsy pathways and chambers inside?
No giant lives or is buried in there!
WHY SO SMALL? AM I the little People's SLAVE somehow?
VICE VERSA?!
Or just a really righteous neighbor helping out my neighbors?
Or A GOD, not with supernatural power, but with power to wreck your day. A GOD TO YOU LIKE YOU ARE TO ANTS

NEW THOUGHT: I might use my giant penis to impregnate the daughters of man. (Like the bible says)
SMALL SIZE PENIS: Length 108" x Width 3"
LARGE SIZE PENIS: Length 360" x Width 144" (a lethal weapon at this point, I would not want to be around for the TWO to TWENTY CUPS OF SEMEN!

At this point of my visualization, I already know I and 100 of my friends can build a site like TIKAL. Full Confidence.
Although I am NOT SURE ABOUT THE CARVINGS ON THE STONES... WHY WOULD I DO THAT?! Maybe I made people do that?
WHY WOULD I MOVE THESE STONES IN THE FIRST PLACE? Did I have some fucking plan here?
WHY SO SMALL ENTRANCES? is it like a LOCK? Maybe the humans are my bitches/slaves (ahem), I mean keys to maintaining something I built for a reason, but what the fuck can it be? I hear a lot about space, but why would I give a shit?
Sure the structures can NOT be for coming out of the COLD!? maybe with the smaller giants?

See, well my Giant Life for a Day dream comes to an end.
Back to the scumbag fucking oath breaking cocksucking bullshit.

Love to ya though
Let's stop putting up with these oath breaking scum fuck wads. I beg you do something about it, nothing else matters.

Re:AS THE MOST DIEHARD XP GUY ON /. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160505)

God damn if I didn't have a last thought.
That is..If I was 36' tall, the CURRENT OATH BREAKERS will be cleansed off this earth, until they stopped me
NOW Imagine 100 of my friends @ 36' , suddenly showing up and swamping the CAPITAL OF THE DISTRICT OF OATH BREAKERS

The bullshit has to stop.
FUCK THIS UNDECLARED WAR
WE WANT OUR FUCKING RIGHTS BACK SO WE CAN SURVIVE
OTHERWISE YOU BETTER GO INTO YOUR FUCKING UNDERGROUND CITIES YOU COCKSUCKING OATH BREAKERS

Win XP is still the best (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160543)

Many year after first buy Window XP, I still use for playing games. It is EXCELLENT and FABULOUS. Window 8 is confuse me and have no desktop, so can't play game at all. Also, corporate softwares no work on Window 8. Must have Internet Exploring 5 to work.

Stay with Window XP forever. Micro$oft is scam. Would use Linux before use Window 8.

This post sponsored by Apple.

Re:Win XP is still the best (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160599)

Many year after first buy Window XP, I still use for playing games. It is EXCELLENT and FABULOUS.
I agree.

Window 8 is confuse me
I think you have bad english? Part of the problem?

  and have no desktop,
Welp English or no english, you figured it out! Bravo! Yeah let's run adobe after effects, and several "apps" and see if we can switch back and forth productivity wise. Sure that cute little girl with her dad art thing is CUTE, but it ain't reality.

so can't play game at all.
Heh I hear ya. I said that going into XP!

Also, corporate softwares no work on Window 8.
NAME NAMES. But I agree. Lexicon, dunno about ProTools (I ain't CHECKED ANYMORE, maybe they fixed it?)

  Must have Internet Exploring 5 to work.
Yeah, for some old software apps. I have one. I WILL NOT MENTION THE NAME

Stay with Window XP forever. Micro$oft is scam.
100% Correct, except in the situation with new hardware, there they have us. There is specific hardware they exploit and make it kick ass over everything else. There IS a reason windows 8 has that shit in it. It don't make it good for fuckers like us who want to produce shit

Would use Linux before use Window 8.
NAAAAAAAAAAAAA WRONG. USE WHAT WORKS FOR WHAT YOU NEED. PERIOD

This post sponsored by Apple.
Liar. But we still love you, now go comment on my FUCKING POST!!
"AS THE MOST DIEHARD XP GUY ON /." Load the comments, FIND my post and DISCUSS. GOd damn it.

Revealed to the world: It's all me (1, Interesting)

TheRealHocusLocus (2319802) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160745)

Yes, despite not being in the IT business for years, I am the one my friends call when their desktops and laptops take 10 minutes to boot, clog up with viral effluent of try to VM-swap in too little physical memory.

But I try to head it off. Whenever I spy someone who's just acquired -- or is just starting to grapple with -- some Windows 7 or Vista computer I suggest, "hey, bring it over and I'll take a snapshot of the disk, then clean it and load XP onto it. If it doesn't work out I'll restore the image and we will at least have tried..."

About 40% of them take me up on the offer. 60% don't, and I do not hear from those again until things have gotten really out of hand. And if I had made the offer and they turned it down I'm inclined to suggest maybe it's time to invest in a new computer.

So they buy a brand new one, Windows 7/Vista raises one more point in market share, they 'donate' their old machine to me (and I slap XP on it right-quick) and all is right with the world.

Though in the years since Vista was introduced in '05, I seem to have experienced an overall 60% reduction in friends. Time to buy some more on Facebook!

Not sure... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42160843)

> Windows XP fell to 39.82 percent while Windows 8 jumped to 1.09 percent.

Not sure if submitter is M$ shill or sarcastic.

My 2-year old "jumps" higher than that. 8-/

Re:Not sure... (1)

Tridus (79566) | about a year and a half ago | (#42160913)

It's not 1% of sales, it's 1% of traffic. Considering how massive the installed base is, 1% in a short period of time isn't bad at all.

Nobody's going to say that Windows 8 is burning up the charts at all, but it was never going to get to 10% in two months.

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