Iran Claims To Have Downed Another US Drone 219
AmiMoJo writes "The Iranian military says it has captured an unmanned U.S. drone aircraft in its airspace over Gulf waters. The Revolutionary Guards said they had brought down a ScanEagle — one of the smaller, less sophisticated drones employed by the Americans. The U.S. said it was looking into the reports." (The U.S. response so far, also reported by Reuters and others, seems to be "We're not missing any drones.")
But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:2, Insightful)
The Revolutionary Guards said they had brought down a ScanEagle
But the movie "Argo [wikipedia.org]" taught me that Iranian Revolutionary Guards are just bumbling idiots who can't tell their heads from their asses in several completely fabricated scenes! Larry, Moe and Curly have more wherewithal than the Revolutionary Guard! No way they could outsmart American engineering!
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North Korea found a Unicorn Lair. Iran isn't too far removed from N Korea in the "truth in journalism" arena. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but pics or it didn't.
Gawker has a picture. [gawkerassets.com]
Personally, I think it looks photoshopped, but opinions may vary.
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Right, except that last time this happened Iran was telling the truth (well, part of it at least) and the US was lying.
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How about the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbbuuC-ftE [youtube.com]
Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:5, Funny)
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Our media doesn't say shit like on the day Obama was born... a cold shiver went down Chuck Norris' spine.
I dunno, Glenn Beck does still have a radio show.
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Glen Beck isn't media, he is entertainment. Same as Limbaugh.
Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Glen Beck isn't media, he is entertainment. Same as Limbaugh.
Good luck convincing their audiences of that.
Audiences which include some highly influential people...
Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:4, Informative)
It is well known that the audiences of the Daily Show and Colbert Report entertainment shows on the Comedy channel do very well on polls of public knowledge. What is less appreciated is that those two shows have some unexpected competition.
Pew Research Center - Key News Audiences Now Blend Online and Traditional Sources
Data from table: Education, Age, and Knowledge [people-press.org] (Near bottom of page.)
High
Knowledge / Source
44% - NPR
43% - Hardball
42% - Hannity & Colmes
36% - Rush Limbaugh
34% - BBC
34% - Colbert Report
33% - NewsHour
30% - Daily Show
22% - Daily newspaper
21% - NBC News
19% - CNN
19% - ABC news
19% - Fox News
18% - National Average
17% - Local TV news
10% - CBS News
I have to admit to a bit of surprise that the Colbert Report audience outscored the Daily Show audience, but there it is.
(Queue down mods by the "open minded" for this bit of sacrilege.)
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If nothing else happens other than he doesn't appear in a kilt, I am grateful.
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Wait just a second. If his listeners are sheep, and he shows up wearing a kilt, you know about those jokes; man I'm just going to stop right here.
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Our media doesn't say shit like on the day Obama was born, there was a double rainbow over the White House and a cold shiver went down Chuck Norris' spine.
Stop being silly. Chuck Norris don't have cold shivers he give the media cold shivers
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Chuck Norris doesn't have cold shivers
Sure he does. Remember the earthquake last year in Japan?
Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, please. The US may lie in the press, but it's nothing compared to what North Korea does. Our media doesn't say shit like ...
Decades ago, when I was a kid, the US press printed similar outrageous statements about China. Then I grew up, I learned how to read and write Chinese, and I lived in China for several years. Out of curiosity, I went back and read some of those reports in the original Chinese. What they actually said was NOT what the US press reported, but instead was the use of metaphor or some idiom like "raining cats and dogs" that was never supposed to be taken literally. The US press was twisting the meaning of the words to intentionally make the Chinese look stupid.
I do not speak or understand Korean, but I strongly suspect that that same thing is happening. So your example of the Koreans lying is probably really an example of the USA lying about what the Koreans are really saying.
Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, the longer perspective is that this is peanuts compared to the bombine and human suffering in past (undeclared) wars. Probably it would not even be possible anymore to imagine a war in the proportions of Vietnam these days. Targeted drone killings sound more humane than Dresden and Hiroshima. Those who carry the crimes out say it was an order. And when someone bombs their base he becomes a "terrorist". That is the whole hypocrisy. So maybe the standards and principles are wrong, not the practise.
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It still bears no weight on the original argument.
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Or maybe your personal experiences are blinding you to what is going on in a completely different country.
Or maybe I chose to believe my own eyes instead of believing what I am told I am supposed to believe.
I work in the intelligence community, and I can assure you that the state media ...
Why would I need "assurance" from the "intelligence community" about something that was openly published in the press?
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I work in the intelligence community, and I can assure you that...
"Trust me - I'm a professional liar."
No indeed, it just claims the US president wasn't (Score:2)
No indeed, it just claims the US president wasn't born in the US, that aliens crashed and are kept at Area 51 and that 9/11 was an inside job.
I actually watched a Discovery "documentary" which claimed that helicopters can not have ejection seats. A surprise to the Russian helicopter pilots.
The US TV/News/Media has done such a thorough job of lying they don't need insane claims, they don't work anyway. Remember, the master of propaganda, Himmler, favored a movie that had a Jew as the hero to spread the naz
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See MSNBC.
Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:5, Funny)
No... there's a lighthouse in the middle of Prussia. A white house in a, Red Square.
I'm living in films for the sake of Russia, a kino runner for the DDR, and the 52 daughters of the Revolution turn gold to chrome.
But seriously, lyrics to old goth songs notwithstanding... I know a lot of my fellow Americans are naive about a lot of things, but comparing our media, bad as it is, to China or Russia's, much less to North Korea's, of all places, is at best naive in the extreme, and a good sign someone has been drinking kool-aid they shouldn't be.
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I wish I had mod points for the pair of you.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to stand very still and lean from side to side a tiny bit in a dark room with loud music.
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I was just pointing out it's not in the same league as North Korea in the sheer audacity and unbelievabality.
From a game theory perspective, I'm better off if I'm being lied to by somebody who's unbelievable. In many ways, a huge, obviously false, lie is less audacious than a superficially believable one.
Then again, when Stockholm Syndrome is in play, huge bold lies like "Social Security and Medicare will be there for the next generation" or "the War on Drugs is keeping Americans safe" are believed anyway
Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Correct. The US officials rarely actually lie. They do misdirect when necessary. Note the response in this case:
Iran: We have a U.S. drone
U.S: The *U.S. Navy* (which is known to fly drones nearby) is not missing any drones.
Well, what about CIA, NRO, or NGIA? They don't say anything.
And besides, even CIA could reply "We're not missing any of our drones." And could be entirely true. And that's because a private subcontractor owns and runs them for CIA.
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BTW, the World Trade Center was built to withstand direct collisions with the largest p
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No high rise structure ever built could survive the collapse of an entire floor (they might survive the roof collapsing into the structure but even that could cause a domino failure). Logic should get in the way of you even uttering that moronic statement. You put a building in motion like that and NOTHING in the world could stop it. The WTC were billions of pounds of steel and concrete and you are suggesting that it could survive a fall of about 12' and an instantaneous stop. The force transfer of that ins
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Re:But But But "Argo" Taught Me ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, "Argo" gave the Guards more credit than they deserved. The movie threw in a lot of fictional Hollywood bullshit to make it look like the diplomats escaped with seconds to spare, with the Guards hot on their tails. In real life, the Guards were completely oblivious - they had no idea it happened until they saw it on TV.
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The guards build Iranian long range missiles, satellite carrier, attack helicopters, anti-ship cruise missiles and many more nowadays (check Wikipedia yourself).
You can ridicule them as much as you want but that won't change anything. Not that I like them but even that won't change anything.
I think the inter-agency conversation went like (Score:5, Funny)
CIA: [sounding official] Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.
Pentagon: What happened?
CIA: [getting nervous] Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
Pentagon: We're sending a squad up.
CIA: Uh, uh... negative, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous.
Pentagon: Who is this? What's your operating number?
CIA: Uh...
Re:I think the inter-agency conversation went like (Score:5, Funny)
That was after another conversation that went like this:
Pentagon: What happen?
CIA: Somebody shot down us the drone. We get signal.
Pentagon: Main screen turn on. It's you!
Ahmadinajad: How are you gentlemen? All your tech are belong to us! You are on the way to destruction.
Pentagon: What you say?
Ahmadinajad: You have no chance to survive make your time. Ha ha ha ha!
Pentagon: Take off every MiG. We know what you're doing. Move MiG. For great justice!
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It was a boring conversation anyway...
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Thankfully (or not?) this conversation doesn't end with the CIA jumping into a trash compactor.
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Han should have shot the console first.
Drones? (Score:5, Insightful)
How could any one entity tell? At this point there's the CIA, the FBI, the ATF, the NSA, the SS, the regular Army, the Army Rangers, the Navy, the Marines, the Seals, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, the State Department, the DoD, Mercenaries (ie "Civilian Contractors"), and Sheriff Joe Arpaio all with drones. Could any one entity speak for all of those at this point?
Re:Drones? (Score:5, Informative)
Combined Air Operations Center. They'll know. One agency monitoring everything including, but not limited to, commercial airliners, military flights, private planes, U(C)AVs, and even (in some cases) model airplanes and rockets.
Now, as to if the CAOC would tell Reuters anything other than the time of day, that's anyone's guess.
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Now, as to if the CAOC would tell Reuters anything other than the time of day, that's anyone's guess.
My guess is that even the state of the clocks on the walls are classified.
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Even the top secret CIA ones? They didn't seem to have any data on rendition flights, for example.
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Then what happened last time when they denied the capture of RQ-170? They wanted the government to be humiliated?
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I thought for a moment you'd slipped 'SS' in there as a joke...
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Social Security?
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If you believe the CIA (and you would have to be a pretty epic moron to), they're not even flying drones over Iran. Do you really think they would admit that one of the drones that they're *not* flying over Iran just got shot down?
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So, now the waiting game starts... we want visual confirmation before we will admit to having lost yet another drone.
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The military one usually have a pilot.
A little, tiny pilot? How does that work?
Back to reality. They could have just leased one [marketwatch.com] on their own. Much easier....
Leasing is becoming a fast-growing business in the drone marketplace, with foreign governments essentially renting the aircraft, ground support and operators through fixed contracts. That relieves foreign governments of costly capital commitments and keeps cutting-edge military technology out of their hands.
Oh, if only (Score:2)
If only Iran could down Arpaio...
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Of course that's their response. (Score:2)
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It's not missing, it has stealth capabilities so advanced it can even affect inventory systems. The only known countermeasure is counting on your toes.
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That may well be "200 in our bases and one shoot down and in the water at coordinates (...)."
It is all a matter of interpretation.
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These arn't the drones you are looking for. (Score:5, Funny)
Those aren't the drones we are looking for. Move along.
Bag limit? (Score:3)
Isn't it drone season over there?
Re:Bag limit? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bag limit? (Score:5, Funny)
You're despicable.
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Dammit, now you guys owe me a new keyboard!!
Who else has drones droning around Iran? (Score:2)
Maybe Israel . . . ? Or maybe the UK . . . ?
Newsflash: This is not an achievement (Score:4, Insightful)
Why does anyone care?
Sorry, I shouldn't be like that. So...let me get the facts straight here. A country that is well known for saber rattling without anything to back it up may or may not have shot down an incredibly slow flying, cheap, pilotless, unstealthed drone that is specifically purpose-built to get shot down so we don't have to risk more expensive planes and pilots. That's it, right?
Just out of curiosity, how are the Kardashians doing today? I mean as long as we're acting like unimpressive bullshit is news, might as well go all the way.
Let me know when they shoot down an F-22 Raptor or a B-2 Spirit. Until then, non-news. I mean hell, this is exactly why we use drones in the first place - so we don't have to risk either pilots or much more expensive planes to do this stuff. Let them shoot down 1,000 more for all I care. Just more american workers in american aircraft factories with more work to do. Nobody dies, and it benefits our domestic economy. By all means Iran, PLEASE, shoot down some more easy targets so we can mass-produce some more replacements for them.
Re:Newsflash: This is not an achievement (Score:5, Insightful)
Let them shoot down 1,000 more for all I care. Just more american workers in american aircraft factories with more work to do. Nobody dies, and it benefits our domestic economy.
Please stop saying that building something with non-renewable resources and blowing it up improves the economy.
http://economics.about.com/od/warandtheeconomy/a/warsandeconomy.htm [about.com]
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window [wikipedia.org]
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The trouble is that in the United States, it is politically acceptable to spend $50 billion on drones and missiles, but not politically acceptable to spend $1 billion on scientific research. It's also easier in the US to find money for schools in Afghanistan than it is to find money for schools in Alabama.
I'm still not really quite sure where that comes from, but it's very very true.
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Oh wait, only Iran is allowed to make shit up on the internet?
Also, I smell a Tony.
Simple Explanation (Score:2)
They shot down their own drone clone.
Pics or it didn't happen... (Score:2)
Oh wait, Iran keep photoshopping those. Ok, let's just leave it at "it didn't happen" to save everyone wasting their time.
BBC Images show an undamaged ScanEagle drone (Score:2)
The "captured" ScanEagle drone was clearly not shot down... and its pristine structure indicates that it didn't crash either.
Doesn't it concern everybody that Iran appears to be able to capture these drones out of the sky and land them fairly intact... with minimal to no exterior damage.
Does this give credence to Iran's claim that they are able to take over the controls of a drone and land it relatively safely without too much structural damage?
Is it possible that they could override the controls of a cruis
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Or they just rented the stupid thing [marketwatch.com].
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"self-destruct"? On a drone? The amount of material you would need to detonate would completely swamp the usual payload. The don't have it because they cannot afford the weight to carry it.
The reality is... (Score:2)
http://www.airhogs.com/ [airhogs.com] has a test facility in Iraq. 7 year old boys are considerably more abusive on flying drones then Iran is.
US Not the Only ScanEagle Operator in Region (Score:4, Informative)
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Aren't several tankers using these systems to provide advanced warning on Somali pirates? I would be much more curious if it is a military version or a commercial version...
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I am pretty sure the sensor package would be different too, but my main point was that the level of security on the commercial vs military versions is (hopefully) quite different.
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It is a big deal because it shows how the US is actively sending aircraft into Iranian airspace without authorization. Imagine if Iran started flying drones over the US.
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It isn't a big deal because it's actually airspace over international waters that Iran fantasizes is their national domain.
Or haven't you heard? Apparently almost the entire Persian Gulf is theirs, because it's Persian.
They allow international shipping through their Strait of Hormuz out of the beneficience of their kindly hearts.
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CIA? (Score:2)
On the one hand, the CIA is not likely to admit they've lost a drone.
On the other hand, Iran has a well documented history of lying about its accomplishments.
Hard to determine the truth here...
This wouldn't of happened (Score:2)
Meanwhile in UAE... (Score:2)
Self Destruct? (Score:2)
Or perhaps it's a nefarious CIA plot to sneak a Stuxnet-like virus into Iran's C&C infrastructure:
Tech 1: We have successfully downloaded the ROM from the drone into our systems. Allahu-Akbar!
Tech 2: Huh. Why have our radar and air defense systems suddenty gone off-line?
We're not missing any drones. (Score:2)
We know exactly where they all are, including the one Iran just captured.
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People lie; their religion is irrelevant.
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Or they'll parade around the drone on TV giving it premium fuel and coercing it to look grateful in an attempt to show how benevolent they are to their prisoners.
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Perhaps this video will open your eyes. I could not find the original PressTV video. This one is translated by an arabic station.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbbuuC-ftE [youtube.com]
Re:I guess ... (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, the previous copy they bought is in use. They are busy wiping Israel off the map.
Certainly looks staged (Score:2)
In the very first second you can see "We shall trample the U.S." above the drone.
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Both the first drone and the ScanEagle appear to be fairly intact. I highly doubt that we are landing drones on Iranian runways.
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This video looks a lot more legit than the last one.
But, the displayed machine is remarkably intact.
I'm wondering if this video isn't of a Scan Eagle at an air or weapons show.
I doubt that. That would imply that the Iranians have mastered After Effects (take the generic background and replace it with the Iranian one). They've barely gone past Photoshop 101. Give them a few years....