Python Creator Guido van Rossum Leaves Google For Dropbox 261
New submitter mrvan writes "Guido van Rossum, the proclaimed Python Benevolent Dictator For Life, has left Google to work for Dropbox. In their announcement, Dropbox says they relied heavily on Python from the beginning, citing a mix of simplicity, flexibility, and elegance, and are excited to have GvR on the team. While this is, without a doubt, good news for Dropbox, the big question is what this will mean for Python (and for Google)."
What will he be doing at DropBox? (Score:4, Interesting)
And what did he use to do at Google? Did he work on Python only in his spare time or did Google pay him to hack on it?
Re:What will he be doing at DropBox? (Score:5, Informative)
AFAIK he was working on the Python part of Google App Engine, in particular the NDB [google.com] API.
He has also developed Mondrian, a code review tool that was partially open sourced as Rietveld. [google.com]
(Not a Google employee, so just going by public knowledge here)
Big Question? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Big Question? (Score:5, Insightful)
Only when you already have it. Which, to be fair, he likely does.
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As is my wife.
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Money is severely over-rated as a driver.
As is my wife.
Just drive with your other hand, then.
Re:Big Question? (Score:4, Insightful)
He's a hacker. Maybe he wants to work for a technology company instead of an advertising company.
FUD, and more FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
Best I'm aware, Python was important for Google long before Guido got hired by Google. He was the cherry on the pie, if anything.
As such, it means absolutely nothing for Google, bar that they lost someone who they may have wanted to keep in-house.
Re:He Was Fired... (Score:4, Insightful)
I work for Google.
Let me just say that you're full of shit.
First of all, python is just as much in use now as before. Secondly, it will continue to be so.
Secondly - fired? Nope.
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Google replacing Python with Go in large parts of the company. Do you have documentation for that? (I am really interested, because that would be an interesting event).
But I don't think Python ever had an important job at Google. I can't even name any of their important projects which are done in Python.
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ALL old google stuff was done in python. ...
You seem pretty bad informed
Google is a strange place to work (Score:5, Interesting)
Guido wasn't 'here's a box for you crap, you have five minutes before security escorts you out the door" fired. It was closer to 'we don't see a role for you here, quit now and save us both the hassle of having to let you go' type fired.
He has really accomplished nothing since he was hired. And needless to say with Google actively replacing Python in the company with Go, he was acting like a petulant ass.
Google is a strange place to work. It's entirely possible that, by the performance metrics they typically use, it was a mutual parting of the ways; I don't know, and unless you are on the performance review committee for his engineering subgroup, neither do you (and if you are, you should be keeping your mouth shut, instead of posting here, even as an AC). But assuming your theory is correct, don't mistake an organizational inability to effectively utilize his talents with him not having them.
That said, your second paragraph is basically BS. Go never really caught on because it did not have a cross-platform library; the reason was that it insisted on directly trapping its system calls itself, which is great, if you aren't an engineer with a MacBook Pro trying to do work at home, and want the same system call semantics for e.g. "kill" or "sigaction". Hint: at the top of Libc on Mac OS, kill takes 2 parameters; at the user/kernel boundary, it takes 3 so the kernel knows whether it should use traditional Mac OS signal semantics, or use POSIX 1003.1-2001 semantics (same as Linux). Until they drop Mac OS X for Linux (probably still running on Apple hardware), or the Go folks fix their language binding to use LibSystem (Libc) instead of trapping their own system calls, I don't see that changing in favor of Go adoption any time soon.
While Go is an "official language", along with C/C++ there are two others, one of which is Python, and not a lot of work was actually being done in Go. My last major project at Google was exclusively Python, and all of the testing infrastructure for Chrome OS is written in Python. One of the first classes you are offered as part of new employee orientation, apart from "How to use Perforce" is "Python Programming".
Personally, I could see him leaving as being part of the generally publicly announced Larry Page effort to focus Google on working on fewer total projects, and on hiring for specific roles, instead of just hiring everyone who met the right level of smart, and figuring something for them to do afterwards. But frankly, I do not see increased focus fixing what Larry's attempting to fix with it. I suspect this is more likely than your theory.
Either way, I expect his contributions at Dropbox will be valuable to them, and wish him luck there.
it means they all get to upgrade to python 3.xxx (Score:2, Funny)
and break every script they have
Gut reaction? (Score:4, Informative)
In my case, was that Google are moving away from Python. Also see the last answer here:-
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2560310/heavy-usage-of-python-at-google [stackoverflow.com]
Perhaps there are some anonymous Googlers out there that are brave enough to comment?
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AFAIK, nobody ousted Guido from the company, and he was just looking for something new.
At Google, Python is popular for all kinds "operations" scripts, eg. scripts that help start up production jobs, or interact with version control systems. For production systems (ie. user-facing systems), it is not popular, since its performance sucks, and python programs are fragile. More complex programs have tons of dependencies, and other teams change dependencies from under you all the time. With a dynamic language l
Google Drive and Linux as a motive? (Score:2)
There could be more to this story, given the interest from the Linux community.
There is an on-going discussion, or rather expression of frustration with Google, going on in the Google groups regarding Google Drive and the lack of support for Linux See here: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/drive/j_SmC6bMsEo/discussion%5B276-300%5D [google.com]
Could that be the reason behind the departure?
foolish (Score:3)
So... file sharing companies like dropbox are getting litigated out of business and shut down by the feds left and right... and yes, I see pirated shit on dropbox accounts all the time... but Google is poised to be one of the most powerful companies and history... that just seems foolish. Of course, he might know something we don't...
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You're not getting it. They are going to get shut down by the feds any day now. Here's an email I just got from them today:
Dropbox Links let you share files or folders (of any size) with anyone, even if they're not using Dropbox
Sharing files is a huge pain - you have to compress, attach, upload, and a bunch of other verbs that are a waste of your time. Forget that! We just invented the best way to get stuff from your computer to the rest of the world.
Happy Dropboxing!
- The Dropbox Team
That's got "Future MegaUpload" written all over it.
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I thought it was more ironic that Google has just introduced Drive this year, their own Dropbox replacement.
End of Google App Engine? (Score:3)
I realize it's only speculation, but that's all we get with Google products. One minute it's a product, the next it's EOL. Or perhaps App Engine stays but the Python support gets phased out in favor of Java. Google products do sometimes lose features over time - the thread on why Google Docs took away table cell merging is a funny read if you get software freedom.
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AppEngine originally seemed like Java was the first class language and Python was the second class one, then that switched around with Python getting more love and the Java support stagnating. Now they both seem neglected in favour of Go. It wouldn't surprise me if AppEngine becomes Go only at some stage
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What does it mean? (Score:3)
For the language, not much, as no matter where Guido ends up python is still his baby. And even if he got hit by a bus or something the language will continue on without him.
What does it mean to Guido? Well only he can answer that but i would imagine he was ready for a change in scenery. I dont think he is in it for the money anymore and doesn't have to work unless he wants to.
What does it mean to Google, not much there either, they used it before he got there, and im sure will use it after hes gone.
Higher priority at Dropbox (Score:5, Interesting)
Google's search engine was originally in Python, but the company has since moved on to use Java on the front end, C++ on the back end, and Python has been relegated to glue code.
On the other hand, Dropbox has been using Python for its entire stack. I believe they made a few performance related contributions to CPython as well.
Guido is a great engineer (besides being a language designer), and still writes a lot of code. He probably would get more satisfaction working at a growing company where Python is a first class citizen rather than at Google.
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Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Informative)
Quite right. And don't forget about LAN sync. Dropbox clearly is technically more advanced than Skydrive. The only handicap I see with Dropbox is the lack of some sort of permission system when you share folders. Or at least a read-only setting.
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Dropbox clearly is technically more advanced than Skydrive.
I think I would agree that Dropbox is more technically advanced; however, I would say that Skydrive (for good or ill) is also more ingrained into the Microsoft technology stack. Office 2013, SharePoint 2013, and (I think) Windows 8 have the ability to use it. In Office I think it is the default now which will probably trip a few people when they go to browse for their file and mistakenly saved it on Skydrive instead of their local box.
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SkyDrive, like SharePoint is just another attempt at Microsoft lock-in. Personally I prefer it when people create suites of products that I *want* to use, not that I *have* to use. The Apple ecosystem is the same.
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dropbox on windows = a magic folder that just works. not much to be business oriented about it.
only problem with it is that it's just not that much free unless you whore ref codes etc. being able to make web links is certainly a plus.
the only complaint I have is that shared folders(with others, like a company group) count against your drive space. that sucks bigtime.
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Yes I know, the fine print says don't use it for anything you wouldn't want to see on the the nightly news, but idiots share commercially sensitive information with it anyway.
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Perhaps this guy will make it less of a joke. Last I heard you still couldn't revoke Dropbox access from someone you've given it to in the past, even though it gives you the illusion of doing so with a password change page. While that's not as bad as the legendary, but fixed, fuckups in the past of letting people get your stuff without any authentication other than your username, or the even more comical fuckup based on
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Funny)
I've always loved PHP - it gives flexibity and I just love coding using it. But I know many people love Python too. What's more elegant and nicer in Python than PHP?
I've always like skydrive a lot more than dropbox due to it's more lax restrictions. Nothing to do with the programming language whatsoever.
I too prefer to skydive rather than program in PHP. Personal preference, I suppose...
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Funny)
Is that with or without a parachute? Because falling out of an airplane to a grizzy death doesn't sound so bad after you've been programming PHP all day.
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Interesting)
Is that with or without a parachute? Because falling out of an airplane to a grizzy death doesn't sound so bad after you've been programming PHP all day.
You think PHP is bad? Why in my day we used COM with VB and C++, uphill both ways.
But just try telling that to kids these days. They'll never believe you.
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Informative)
One word for all you whiny kids today: MFC.
Jesus H. I'd rather pull out my teeth. With pliers.
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ARRGGH!!! &$ )!$!@$ !@ !!&*(!#@!!!!!!!!!
I had forgotten all about MFC, until you had to go bring it up again. I'm sure my lack of memory was due to some form of self-defense by my subconscious.
Some things are best left behind, that humanity can move on to enlightenment without having to admit our barbaric past.
DAMN YOU! What is wrong with you man? Do you play Justin Bieber recordings in public too?
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Funny)
ARRGGH!!! &$ )!$!@$ !@ !!&*(!#@!!!!!!!!!
Now while writing an entire sharepoint replacement in one line of perl is impressive, it doesn't really constitute a specific argument against MFC.
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In my day, we used C and sometimes assembler.... no, on second thought, you win.
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I still write my CGI in C, like everything else. C++? Why? Also: What's a "PHP" or a "VB"? And, isn't COM the same as EXE except for the 64k limit?
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:4, Informative)
Also: What's a "PHP" or a "VB"?
A security exploit.
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Is that with or without a parachute? Because falling out of an airplane to a grizzy death doesn't sound so bad after you've been programming PHP all day.
I take it that you are not a C# programmer? Or maybe you a a Java guy who lost your mind years ago?
Not a fractal of bad design (Score:5, Informative)
What's more elegant and nicer in Python than PHP?
Python isn't a fractal of bad design [veekun.com].
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Every point in that write up has been rebutted. Linking to that over and over doesn't make any of it true.
http://forums.devshed.com/php-development-5/php-is-a-fractal-of-bad-design-hardly-929746.html [devshed.com]
http://blog.ircmaxell.com/2012/04/php-sucks-but-i-like-it.html [ircmaxell.com]
from collections import Counter as bag (Score:2)
When you say a "bag", how big a bag are you talking?
Might it be this bag [wikipedia.org] implemented in Python as collections.Counter [python.org]?
Only two warts (Score:2)
In defense of PHP, Python and Ruby suck in their own ways too -- plain and simple. Maybe not as much [... See] "Python: teaching kids and biting bits don't mix" by yosefk
If the hex() change and the division operator are the only "warts" in Python, then it at least has PHP beat. One of the warts that yosefk complains about (int / int = float) is there just as much in PHP, and unlike Python, PHP doesn't even have a floor division operator.
As to the example motivating that article: I deal with binary files in Python, such as tools to manipulate NES programs and data, and the first thing I do 90 percent of the time when loading a binary file is put it in an array.array('B').
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How does this Slashdot ecode bug affect Python? (Score:3)
Most people working with C-derived languages use some form of block indentation, and large shops usually have coding standards that insist you stick to it rigorously. This means most people already have the tooling in place to enforce indentation
Anyway, my point is that code in languages that use braces for blocks can be sent through lossy channels that collapse whitespace and then reconstructed using an automated tool that applies these coding standards you mention [gnu.org].
Inexact division (Score:2)
One of the warts that yosefk complains about (int / int = float)
That's not a wart. That's how it's supposed to be.
How it's supposed to be is int / int = fraction. Doing int / int = float is inexact.
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In the case of Python, since it's on topic, try recent versions of Python's hex() function for instance. Assume it works like it does for other languages, [...]
Why would you assume that?
Re:Not a fractal of bad design (Score:5, Funny)
In defense of PHP, Python and Ruby suck in their own ways too...
That's like saying "In defense of a knife to the eye, cheesecake and ice cream have their own drawbacks."
I'm glad some one else will say what I've always said, PHP is a three-headed Satan baby. When the seventh seal was broken and the seventh trumpet sounded, PHP leaped out of the womb and ate its mother, the whore of Babylon.
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I'm glad some one else will say what I've always said, PHP is a three-headed Satan baby. When the seventh seal was broken and the seventh trumpet sounded, PHP leaped out of the womb and ate its mother, the whore of Babylon.
Thanks for that awesome metaphor!
Every single time that delightfully deep and correct analysis of PHP's shortcomings is mentioned someone who doesn't know anything about language design chimes in with this ridiculous, "Yes but no language is perfect!" line. As if "every well-designed language consists of an intersection of compromises between incompatible ideals" is in any way an answer to, "PHP is fractal of bad design."
I'm not totally sure why anyone thinks "no language meets some impossible standard I'v
Encourages programmers to misunderstand it (Score:2)
the other half falls down to misunderstanding PHP.
How about "PHP is bad because it all but encourages programmers to misunderstand it in a way that leads to security breaches?"
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Way to go proving the author's point. The article is nuanced and clear. Your screed is content free and laughable.
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In defense of PHP...
Your "defense" of PHP is that you know nothing about language design, so you can't see what the problem is?
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I've been using Ruby for a decade and yet to find much suck. I love working with the language. Where should I be looking, pray tell?
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a big python fan. It encourages elegant and readable code and has a good library and community. The lack of static typing hurts a bit in now having good static checking ("compiler errors") and IDE autocomplete, but it also means that you can scrap tehe 90% of code that java forces you to write to declare and then work around interfaces and abstraction layers :-)
I haven't written PHP the last 10 years, so I can't really compare to state of the art, but I felt that PHP encourages sloppy programming and lack of separation of concerns by sticking a lot of business logic in the presentation layer. But that be more about the language being used by a lot of people without formal programming training than about the language itself.
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:4, Insightful)
Dude, I disagree with this statement. Why? Because the choice of where to place business logic lies entirely on the coder. It isn't an attribute you'll find tied to a system just because it employs a particular a language, in this case PHP as you say. The same can be said about Microsoft's Visual Basic as used on its JET DB engine found in MS Access.
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The lack of static typing hurts a bit
The understatement of the year. You know a language got a feature wrong when it comprises an inordinate proportion of the compiler error/bugs found. In Pascal it was the missing semicolon, though in that case the compiler caught it. In C it is the change in meaning of = to assignment and == to comparison (though not _that_ common of an error). In Python, more than half of the bugs are either an improper use of a variable or the wrong amount of white space after refactor
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In Python, more than half of the bugs are either an improper use of a variable or the wrong amount of white space after refactoring some nested code.
I think the white space is mainly a red herring, but you are right that it is annoying to copy-paste code or refactor and have to remember how many spaces to shift a block to the right. In that regard curly braces and select-all + reindent does work easier.
About static typing (I assume that you mean static vs dynamic and not strong vs weak typing?): I think I disagree. I've not looked at how perl did it, so my experience mainly comes from java. But in java you are spending so much time mucking around with i
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I think the white space is mainly a red herring,
I used to be a big fan of white spaces and for small projects it is easy to keep in your head the nesting level at which code should be, but when you are editing someone else's code in a 1000 KLOC project it is much more difficult to remember where it should be. As I said it is an inordinately common source of bugs.
But in java you are spending so much time mucking around with interfaces, casting etc. that it becomes a big mess quite soon,
That a consequence of improper polymorphism, not static typing. Again once you get past 100 KLOC it gets very hard to keep types and names straight. You need the compiler/interpreter to flag you
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The fact that the language is predictable and not error-prone out the ass, for one.
PHP is exceptions wrapped in a language.
I moved away from that crap the instant I found out how buggy that crapware is.
A language developed by people who didn't even understand the difference between == and === has lost all hope of being taken seriously.
And the fact that they even ARGUED against it is even more annoying.
I know it gets linked ALL THE TIME in anything relating to languages, but it really needs to be read by eve
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:4, Informative)
You know, I've gotten used to anti-language screeds being the frustration of the ignorant and lazy compounded with childish exaggerations and intemperance even I boggle at.
But .... wow. Just wow. NULL < -1 && NULL == 0? "0133" == "133" because of implicit string-to-numeric conversions, but 0133 != 133? And the ? : implementation just leaves those examples in the dust.
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If you would kindly put forth what you think "design" should provide
Consistent naming conventions for functions in the standard library, for one thing. Some way to protect names of functions defined in a program from colliding with names of functions added to newer versions of the language, for another.
Re:Python VS PHP (Score:5, Informative)
I've professionally programmed in both Python and PHP. There's no reasonable competition - Python wins hands down.
A few of the advantages of Python over PHP:
filtered = [x for x in unfiltered where x.foo=="bar"]
In PHP the same thing looks like:
$filtered = array_filter($unfiltered, function($x) { return $x->foo == "bar"; });
Web hosting providers slow to offer new PHP (Score:3)
$filtered = array_filter($unfiltered, function($x) { return $x->foo == "bar"; });
Which looks a little like how Python would look without list comprehensions:
The worse part is that lambdas, such as your function($x) { return $x->foo == "bar"; }, are a fairly recent addition to PHP (5.3 series IIRC). This wouldn't be so bad, seeing as PHP 5.3 is three years old, except that shared web hosts have tended not to make it easy to run multiple PHP versions side by side for different applications or even to migrate a whole site to a n
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PHP gets widespread hosting support for exactly one reason: mod_php. This is why it's impossible to run two PHPs at once, and why hosters are slow to upgrade.
Compare the number of companies willing to install an apache module and just forget it (often to their peril) to the number of companies willing to babysit a million RAM-chewing django, rails, and java servlets for all their customers, and that's why.
Someone should resurrect mod_python. It hasn't moved in over 2 years now.
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PHP gets widespread hosting support for exactly one reason: mod_php. This is why it's impossible to run two PHPs at once, and why hosters are slow to upgrade.
For one thing, two Apaches in two virtual machines can run two PHPs. For another, even if you don't run your app servers in virtual machines, you can still mount customer files on a file server and switch the user from the app server that handles 5.2 to the app server that handles 5.4.
Compare the number of companies willing to install an apache module and just forget it (often to their peril) to the number of companies willing to babysit a million RAM-chewing django, rails, and java servlets for all their customers, and that's why.
Which is part of why after this discussion [slashdot.org] I moved my own site from Go Daddy to WebFaction [webfaction.com]. It has Rails, Django, and other common frameworks as one-click installs alongside a more "typical" configuration with CGI and PHP, if
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Did you know that Apache will execute compiled C binaries and that you can simply read and write from STDIN & STDOUT to do CGI? Also, same with C++. Also, there's plenty of libs for parsing parameters and JSON and SQL DBI, etc. Bonus, no scripts to "compile" no need for mod_php or mod_perl to speed up scripts by pre-compiling (I did that when I built the program) and the server can run as many bins as I can make. They pretty much all still support this because that's how we used to do CGI back whe
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Wait, you think testing C and C++ against possible exploits is easier than using an interpreted language like Python or Perl? I wouldn't go back to writing my CGI with C unless there was a no-lawsuits clause.
Web hosting providers charge extra for C CGI (Score:2)
Did you know that Apache will execute compiled C binaries and that you can simply read and write from STDIN & STDOUT to do CGI?
I was aware of that, in an environment that gives the user at least as much control as a VPS. But did you know that some providers' cheapest plans do not support C CGI, only PHP? This restriction is part of why I left Go Daddy shared hosting for WebFaction shared hosting [webfaction.com].
Do the same on my mobile & tablets too -- Just run full-on Linux. Use compiled "apps" to get's tons more battery life than when it had Android on it.
Which brand of phone and tablet do you use, and where can I try them in a store in the United States? And how much more battery life do your tablets get than the eight hours that I get out of a Nexus 7?
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I still use Zope when I want to write Python for the web.
Its not perfect, but its one of the best options. Write your own module using the interfaces given and voila.
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Which looks a little like how Python would look without list comprehensions:
True, but my brain just auto-converted that to a car analogy: "You know, if I take off one of the wheels off this fancy sports car, it doesn't drive too good" :)
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Python list comprehension method:
filtered = [x for x in unfiltered where x.foo=="bar"]
Or you could just use Python's filter() which is conceptually the same as PHP's version:
filtered = filter(lambda x: x.foo == 'bar', unfiltered)
Python has better syntax than PHP, but this is one of the weaker examples.
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Python use within Google has been on the decline for years now. It's not exactly a secret that they discourage using it for new projects.
Re:Pay Decrease? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's funny, because I just interviewed with Google last week for an SRE role, and they specifically wanted someone with hardcore Python and Java development experience, at the filesystem and kernel level. They're moving -everything- into those two language engines.
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That's funny, because I just interviewed with Google last week for an SRE role, and they specifically wanted someone with hardcore Python and Java development experience, at the filesystem and kernel level. They're moving -everything- into those two language engines.
Java? Why?
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True. SRE doesn't tend to write the consumer facing services. We tend to write the stuff that keeps stuff running.
And as you bloody well know, it's mostly written in Python and various DSL's.
Signed,
Someone who actually works in SRE at Google.
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Money isn't everything to everyone. If you were being paid $500.00 per hour to shovel out a barn, wouldn't you take a job that offered something more fun like programing with python even if it paid $490.00 per hour?
Re:Pay Decrease? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I'd take shoveling out a barn at 500/hr. It would get me exercise and a chance to be alone with my thoughts, which would let me do fun things like programming with python for things I want to program, instead of what someone else wants programmed.
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500$/hr?!
Fuck the shovel, I'll use the hands
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Money isn't everything to everyone. If you were being paid $500.00 per hour to shovel out a barn, wouldn't you take a job that offered something more fun like programing with python even if it paid $490.00 per hour?
Depends on the job. Which one do I take to wade through the least amount of bullshit?
I'm burnt out enough that I might try the barn for a year just for the variety.
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You could rebuild it, but the huge shit barn "sort of works", whereas your new barn won't work till it's mostly complete.
I'd be happy to shovel shit from a barn for USD500/hour if I only had to do a very few hours a week
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I am not sure shoveling out barns is the best career move if you are looking to avoid bullshit. I don't have tons of experience in agriculture but I suspect quite a lot bullshit is produced in barns. Perhaps not as much as out in grazing fields but a substantial amount.
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No one can really answer that except for Guido and/or dropbox. I think my favorite job I've ever had paid the least. If I was comfortable enough finacially, I'd go back to it.
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isn't youtube built in python?
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Google has almost 40'000 employees now. You underestimate them. Their PR is good tho.
What does their employee count (or PR) have to do with their commitment to Python or appreciation for employees?
A company's employee count or PR firm isn't connected to how good of an employer they are. Otherwise everyone at McDonalds or Walmart would be loving their jobs.
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Please, God, cannot somebody please take that stupid abomination of a language Python out in back and shoot it in the head until dead. I have never used a less friendly piece of Monkey Pus than the "language" Python.
A fan og PHP, are you? It shows!
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That, is what matters in the end. By your own logic, languages like C shouldn't have existed at all.
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2. Calling a language construct, that captures... nothing, a *closure* is an insult to computer science.
def f(a):
return lambda x: x+a
g = f(10)
print g(4)
>>> 14
That captured something. Maybe not what you want, but it did capture something.
Re: (Score:3)
CPython is the reference implementation. It's as much about being clear about how things work as it is about performance. You can literally drop down into standard library and interpreter code with zero understanding of it, and figure out what's going on right away.
If you want perf, there's always PyPy, Jython etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Why is this downvoted? If it's plain wrong, a reply clarifying that would have been better than a downvote!