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Sequel To Planescape: Torment Planned

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the what-can-change-the-nature-of-a-sequel dept.

Role Playing (Games) 90

Aglassis writes "Eurogamer has reported that famed D&D and computer game designer Colin McComb is working on a spiritual sequel to Planescape: Torment. The game will be set outside of the Planescape campaign setting due to an inability to come to an agreement with Wizards of the Coast. The lead designer on the original game, Chris Avellone, has apparently given his blessing." McComb posted recently about the nature of Planescape and what would define a new game. He wrote, "Any setting that rewards the player for internal exploration (certainly deeper than, 'Can I hit it? How much loot does it have?') could host a similar story. As long as there’s a fantastical element to the world–whether straight fantasy or science-fantasy–these questions become possible and desirable. The farther away we stray from comfortable routine, the more likely we are to challenge ourselves, trying to define our place in the world. A boring setting frequently leads to boring questions; we know the drill and don’t have to examine it closely. But a fantastic setting forces us to re-examine the world, to take it in a fresh light, and to see that our fundamental truths may be flawed. That is at the heart of a Torment story."

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Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (2)

gplguyman (2791035) | about 2 years ago | (#42227623)

I'm looking at my mac options from GOG and I'm wondering.. Planescape or Baldurs Gate?

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42227683)

Either Planescape or both.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (2)

Metahominid (1368691) | about 2 years ago | (#42227727)

That's a very tough decision. I want to go with Baldurs Gate for Minsc and Boo, but Planescape is Planescape.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42227775)

Minsc was the only good thing in Baldur's Gate -- which was a ridiculously overrated games, btw -- while Planescape: Torment is one of the best games EVAH!!

So if it's a choice between Baldur's Gate IV or Torment II, there would be no hesitation on my part.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 2 years ago | (#42229907)

Planescape is definitely the better game overall. Baldur's Gate 1 is fun from a nostalgia view, but it really is not that great from a story angle, the characters are flat and unimpressive, and combat in most of the game is really easy and in the rest of the game it's very too hard and relies on a lot of reloading of saved games. I think the reason most people liked Minsc the most is because he had the most to say (and not that much). On the other hand, Baldur's Gate 2 fixes most of that; the characters are suddenly more interesting, the storyline has some motivation behind it (though the bad guy makes no sense), etc. The BG2 drawback is from the D&D rules in use dealing with high level characters which can be really silly. Planescape was the only D&D game I ever played where the rules didn't feel out of place and illogical and even D&D haters can enjoy it.

So go for Planescape, then switch over to BG2.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

Metahominid (1368691) | about 2 years ago | (#42230041)

Not sure why you replied to me. Should have been more explicit but you covered it and i agree. True on Minsc having most to say and the nostalgia surrounding the humor of it.

Since the next planescape is confirmed I was leaning for Baldurs without a care.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42227851)

Planescape if you want much more than the typical high fantasy stuff, and if you don't mind reading a LOT of well written prose. Baldur's Gate if philosophy or reading more than 140 characters at a time makes your head hurt. This isn't to knock on Baldur's Gate; it's fine if you enjoy LOTR ripoffs. It's just that some of us like to think of fantasy as something that should emphasize originality more than the average genre, not less.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (4, Insightful)

Cinder6 (894572) | about 2 years ago | (#42227987)

Planescape is one of my favorite games, and may objectively be one of the best RPGs out there, especially if you're old-school and actually want to "play" a role in the game. If you think that games like Dragon Age and The Witcher present a lot of player choices, well, they're nothing compared to Planescape.

It does involve a lot of reading, and therefore time--especially if you really want to delve into the story (GOG claims 5000 pages of dialogue, and I believe it). I think it's worth it, but I know that isn't everyone's cup of tea. If you do wind up getting it, then be sure to apply the community patches. In particular, the high-res patch is essential. There's a discussion on the GOG forums all about it.

A spiritual successor to the game would be welcome news. It'll be a hard name to live up to, but fantastic if they pull it off.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (3, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#42228173)

A spiritual successor to the game would be welcome news. It'll be a hard name to live up to, but fantastic if they pull it off.

Well, I have some good news for you then. The guys are Obsidian including the folks who did PS:T are working in a classic RPG to fit the bill now. [obsidian.net] Dragon Age was okay. The Witcher and Witcher 2 were good. But nothing has yet to beat PS:T but considering they've got the entire old BIS team working on PE, I have faith.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

0111 1110 (518466) | about 2 years ago | (#42228603)

Project Eternity is not a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment. It is intended to be more like a cross between Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate 2, except with a much, much, much better story than either of those. The story will be written by both the guy who mostly wrote Planescape: Torment (Chris Avellone) and the guy who wrote most of the NWN2 expansion Mask of the Betrayer (George Ziets). So the story is likely to be very, very good, but it is not intended to be any sort of successor to PS:T.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#42229277)

Checking...nope, didn't say anywhere that it's as a spiritual successor to PS:Torment. Though a spiritual successor to classic CRPG's? I'd say so, at least right now.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42229531)

"Spiritual successor" or not, Project Eternity's Kickstarter pitch was basically "we made Torment, give us money". (At least for the first day, before they put up more details. :) )
Worked on me.

Since neither game will be a direct successor, I guess we'll just have to play both to find out which one is most worthy. I'm sure they'll both be great.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | about 2 years ago | (#42231303)

I'm actually fine with not having a direct sequel to PST. The game was wrapped up as it was; a sequel is unnecessary. With that said, I'm looking forward to Project Eternity.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228001)

buy one, download the other.ilegally
or better, download both

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42228245)

Do you want a good hack&slash game with boring story, or a good story with boring action?

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

imsabbel (611519) | about 2 years ago | (#42228647)

I never could get into planescape, because of the amount of text (dialogue and other) you had to work yourself through.

I like to read, but not 100ks of words in low-res fonts in a small part of a VGA window.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (2)

0111 1110 (518466) | about 2 years ago | (#42228743)

I'm looking at my mac options from GOG and I'm wondering.. Planescape or Baldurs Gate?

Skip Baldur's Gate 1. Baldur's Gate 2 is much better in pretty much every way. My advice would be to play both Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate 2. Both are two of the greatest computer role playing games every made. Baldur's Gate 2 doesn't have a good story mainly because Bioware has never believed in bothering to hire good writers, but the combat is great fun. Especially the mage combat. Definitely try some of the mods that are available for it. Most importantly SCSII aka Sword Coast Strategems II. It vastly improves enemy AI to the point of making the game one of the most challenging I've ever played. Challenging and fun too. BG2Fixpack [gibberlings3.net] and BG2Tweaks [gibberlings3.net] are also mandatory.

PS:T is very much an interactive novel. A very good one. I am one of those who also enjoyed the combat, but nearly everyone complains about Torment combat it seems. It's not as good as Baldur's Gate 2, but it is still far better than the vast majority of cRPGs IMO. Torment is so good that it transcends game-ness and becomes something different.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

Fieryphoenix (1161565) | about 2 years ago | (#42229021)

Temple of Elemental Evil.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

grondak (80002) | about 2 years ago | (#42229877)

When I look at the Planescape page at GOG, it doesn't show a Mac option. Did I miss something? I'd give 'em $9.99 in a heartbeat.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

teg (97890) | about 2 years ago | (#42232167)

When I look at the Planescape page at GOG, it doesn't show a Mac option. Did I miss something? I'd give 'em $9.99 in a heartbeat.

The GOG version works well [codeweavers.com] in Crossover [codeweavers.com] , and probably other versions of Wine as well.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

teg (97890) | about 2 years ago | (#42232125)

I'm looking at my mac options from GOG and I'm wondering.. Planescape or Baldurs Gate?

Both are really good games. As a standalone experience, I'd recommend Planescape. However, nothing beats starting a character in Candlekeep in BG1 and following the character throughout BG1 (w/expansion), BG2 and finally BG2:Throne of Bhaal.

It should be noted that BG1 (w/expansion) has just been released in an enhanced version [baldursgate.com] available on the iPad(!), Windows and soon Mac.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (1)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 2 years ago | (#42240141)

PST is the best game I've ever played.
However, it's a story-based game in the extreme, text upon text upon text.

BG1 is fun and quirky, but very rough around the edges.
BG2 is awesome RPG Adventuring with great character interaction, however, the amount of bugs and holes present in the system (especially with the awesome relationships, best ever written for a computer game by far) make it somewhat of an aquired taste.

Also, BGII starts you out at a higher level, thus making it very much harder to get into it since there are so many things to choose from.

Actually, my advice would be to begin with Icewind dale to get the hang of the game mechanics, then switch to either the story-heavy PST or the adventuring BGII.

Re:Planescape or Baldurs Gate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42245115)

you can get a fantastic mod for the BG series which allows you to start playing in BG1 allthe way though the end of BG2 TOB in one seamless sweep, i highly recommmend looking into it as it updates BG1 to use the much more streamlined and better BG2 interface as well as their expanded class options. the name excapes me but i beleive it is sometihng like bigworld mod but you can google for it.

FUCK YES (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42227737)

Dear god I just hope they don't fuck it up with a bunch of goddamn cutscenes with mediocre voice acting. This game is why us old school computer gamers act so elitist around consolers. It's not the ability to snipe with a mouse that we're missing.

If you enjoy reading and enjoy gaming and haven't played the original Planescape Torment, go do so right now. It has 800,000 words of written dialog (and in some cases brief description of action.) For comparison, the entire Harry Potter series is around 1,000,000. And it's great dialog, really brilliant and weird and philosophical and transcendent. Play a mage, that's my advice. And make sure your wisdom is high too, so you can talk Dak'kon through his crisis of faith (this is not only one of my favorite parts of the game, but it will help you quite a bit in combat as well. If you even want to fight... I think there are only 4 mandatory battles in the entire game.)

I've played it through twice and still have loads of quests and factions and NPCs I wasn't able to find/join/experience. And I'm still searching for another answer for the question, both in the game and in real life, that you encounter again and again: "What can change the nature of a man?" Near the end of the game another incarnation of the main character will give you an answer. It's a good one, but it feels incomplete...

Re:FUCK YES (1)

Mitreya (579078) | about 2 years ago | (#42228011)

If you enjoy reading and enjoy gaming and haven't played the original Planescape Torment, go do so right now.

Yes! That cannot be emphasized enough.

I've played it through twice and still have loads of quests and factions and NPCs I wasn't able to find/join/experience. And I'm still searching for another answer for the question, both in the game and in real life, that you encounter again and again: "What can change the nature of a man?"

I have played through a couple of times (second time with a walk-through), but I am still trying to figure out why the "current" incarnation is not forgetting everything with every death anymore. You can lead a dialog with Nordom towards that question, even, but I couldn't get any suggestions out of him.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

Ambvai (1106941) | about 2 years ago | (#42228775)

Alternatively, somebody made a pretty good novelization of the game. It covers most of the side-quests but, unfortunately, you do get only one of each of the major forks for obvious reasons: http://www.wischik.com/lu/senses/pst-book.html [wischik.com]

Re:FUCK YES (1)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 2 years ago | (#42240159)

This is one of those cases I must say:
Why the fuck would you change the medium of the story?

The thing which really makes the story is how you interact with it and actually experience what is happening.
It's awesome and you can go exactly where you want and do exactly what you want all the time.

Re:FUCK YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42249126)

The evil incarnation paid a wizard to fix his memory, but itt urned out it would only kick in after two or three deaths. The paranoid incarnation later killed said wizard.

Pure plot contrivance, essentially.

Re:FUCK YES (2)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42228289)

Don't hype it too much, you're unnecessarily raising the expectations of new players.
For someone used to modern video games, it's just not that good.

Re:FUCK YES (4, Informative)

Mitreya (579078) | about 2 years ago | (#42228361)

Don't hype it too much, you're unnecessarily raising the expectations of new players.
For someone used to modern video games, it's just not that good.

The game is absolutely excellent. It cannot be hyped too much

For someone used to mindlessly clicking on enemies and having the storyline delivered via cut-scenes, the game may not be too good. But if you are willing to read for the story, you should be fine even today

Also, while I am at it, there is a high-res mod available [gibberlings3.net] . That may be useful to today's gamer.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42228463)

See, you just got my hopes up. I thought you meant this was a mod that replaced textures with higher-resolution versions; that is clearly not the case, it's just a widescreen mod (which is of course clearly indispensable, but not sufficient to make it visually tolerable).

Re:FUCK YES (0)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42228523)

You must have a hell lot of a hard time reading books, my friend. That is, if you try doing so at all.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 2 years ago | (#42228615)

You must have a hell lot of a hard time reading books, my friend. That is, if you try doing so at all.

There is a big difference between books and games. Some of us are more visual and just cannot shut that portion of us down if there is any kind of stimuli; with books there is no stimuli at all so there it doesn't bother, but with Planescape: Torment and similar games there is visual stimuli, no matter how hard you try to ignore it, and therefore it changes the whole thing.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42229673)

Still, 10 years ago everybody, even the "visual inclined ones" wanted to play games with similar graphics and thought their graphics the most beautiful thing in the world. Obviously the visual stimuli aren't bad. The problem is the way you see it and it is not instinctive as you may seem to think, it is learned. You feel the graphics are bad because you have seem better, more realistic graphics in today's games, but the graphics are not unpleasant at all. You just have to stop being picky and enjoy the story and the old but pleasant art.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 2 years ago | (#42230739)

You just have to stop being picky and enjoy the story and the old but pleasant art.

And I just said that I can't. I wish I could, but I just can't.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42231005)

A pity. It is an exceptionally clever and interesting story.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42228649)

Books have text printed on paper, not on a screen with a bad resolution and bad font rendering.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42229631)

So what? I could read the text perfectly without effort and my vision is not even top notch.

Re:FUCK YES (2)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42229747)

Of course it's not top notch, you ruined it by reading on a screen.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42230267)

Well, considering I work in the front of a computer 8 hours or more a day (like most people who post in this site) and play games (even games without much text), the time spent reading books and dialogs on screen is hardly significant. And my vision is actually a little better now than it was a few years ago. My Astigmatism degree went from 1.5 in both eyes to 0.75 and 0.5. It is at the point where I don't need glasses anymore.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42242271)

AOf course it's not top notch, you ruined it by reading on a screen.

Is that actually possible? Can you effect permanent physical chances in your eyes by constantly focusing at short distances? Because, intuitively, you really shouldn't be able to - the only difference between looking at a screen or looking at something far away is how much your focusing muscles have to work, which might exhaust them for a few hours but not permanently.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42242525)

I believe it's the light more than the focusing

Re:FUCK YES (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228665)

Ok, I see where you're coming from now. Yes, retro graphics can be jarring at first. Like watching 480i after you got used to 1080p. But if you play it for a few hours, you should adjust. It's an unconscious process. The visual processing parts of our brains are wired to spot patterns, to suppress image distortions, not emphasize them.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 2 years ago | (#42229549)

But what you are ignoring is there are a lot of people that like RPGs that don't go for the text heavy D&D style and by hyping the hell out of it all you're doing is setting up all those that aren't into harcore D&D style role play for a disappointment.

I'd suggest that anybody who hasn't played it look up one of those "Let's Play" videos on YouTube for it and if it looks interesting to them THEN they should buy it. After all everyone has different tastes and the hard core role playing as opposed to a Diablo II hack and slash is about as opposite as opposite can be and to stick them both in the same category under a generic title like RPG just doesn't work. It would be like saying those that like Saturday Night Fever would like Saw, since they are both movies with an S at the front of their names.

Re:FUCK YES (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42229795)

Most so-called computer RPGs don't deserve that name. Skyrim, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, etc., aren't RPGs. They are great games, but they are still just action games with role playing systems. The amount of "role playing" is minimal. In those games, your job is to kill the enemy to advance the plot and gain skills. I know this sounds like a simplification, but the plots of these games, while excellent, are just window dressing to the hack and slash. The much ballyhooed role-playing element of being good or evil in some of them is really just another skill set or plot piece (I have 50 'evil' points so that means I'm a bad guy or I have taken the X choice thus I am now on the X plot-arc). The idea of falling into and becoming the character is not present in any of these games. This really isn't the case for Planescape: Torment. Torment feels like you are the character. Understanding yourself, the lives of your party members, and the motivations of your enemies is far more important than getting a powerful sword, a new skill, or completing a mission. It isn't tabletop role playing, but at least it feels like it could be. None of the other so-called RPGs can even remotely say that they could have been born out of an actual role-playing session.

I guess my point is that Torment is a valid holder to the name of a role-playing game. Fans of today's so-called RPGs aren't necessarily going to be fans because they've never actually played a real computer RPG. They are completely different types of games.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#42233339)

RPG is a spectrum, based on how "on rails" it is. If there's multiple ways to solve a problem you don't even have to solve, that's probably high up the RPG scale. Obviously Torment is a grand example, but KOTOR Is higher up the scale than many games...

Re:FUCK YES (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | about 2 years ago | (#42258499)

While we normally don't agree I have to say you pretty much nailed it, all I would add is if you have skills you level up and side quests that you can choose to do or ignore that would also be RPG to me.

But to me this is why you don't just go "ZOMFG this is the BEST of (category)" because in categories this broad what may be your cup of tea might be sewer sludge to me. Take Diablo style hack and slash like Titan Quest or Torchlight series, some hate those with a passion but I just love 'em to pieces, to rip a line from Angry Joe's review of Sacred II "I'm a total loot whore" and as long as it has tons of loot and rare items and sets to try to get? i'm all for it.

Same thing with shooters, some people think the whole TF2, CoD MP, BF series MP heavy frag fests are just the greatest thing since sliced bread but even though i love shooters they just leave me cold. Its not that I can't play 'em, in fact I was doing pretty damned good on TF2, its that to me its boring as hell, like watching a bunch of people run around like chickens with the head cut off just blasting everything that moves. I want a story, I want an objective with multiple ways to go about it, I want to decide if I want to plan out an ambush or trap before i go in or just go guns blazing, whereas with the MP heavy games you seem to only be able to really rack up if you are a twitch player that is good with headshots, no real planning or tactics required if you're a good twitch shooter.

So if I think a game is great I tell folks to look up a review or a "Let's Play" video and see if its something they'd like, maybe get a hold of a demo if there is one, because these genres are so broad what one might think is a great example of the genre others might hate. I personally never cared for Planescape, Fallout, or Steamworks because that style of game play just doesn't appeal to me, give me a Diablo style or even a classic dungeon crawl like Eternal Sun or Grimlock any day, reading tons of texts while managing tons of stats just isn't my thing. That is probably why I like the more action heavy RTS games like C&C or CoH over the ultra realistic sims like the Koei games, i just want to get in there and have fun, not worry about how many liters of fuel i need to requisition for each base before a campaign.

Re:FUCK YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42229865)

Anyone who's played it would readily agree it shouldn't be in the same genre as Diablo 2. I think most of the praise here makes it pretty clear that this game does NOT take place in a high fantasy setting, relishes in its weirdness, and is extremely text-centric in its storytelling... the equivalent of several fat novels. If that's not your cup of tea great. Thing is, we've had 15 years and nothing else like it, save a few other Black Isle games that were much less ambitious in prose or setting (Fallout 1-2 were pretty good though.) Meanwhile, thirty-seven thousand hack and slash games have been churned out. So I think it's worth the hyperbolic praise, so long as it's made clear that the praise is in part due to it being such a radically different sort of game.

I don't think a youtube video is the best way to make up your mind though, again because it is so very text-centric. If you've never seen a VGA resolution game before or enjoyed reading a serious novel then no, this is probably is not the game for you.

Re:FUCK YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228549)

It's only "not that good" if you're not that into reading, or feel that written words shouldn't ever be paired with a graphical game.

There's absolutely nothing that it compares with.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

0111 1110 (518466) | about 2 years ago | (#42228641)

I guess it depends on how you define "good". Can you give even one example of a modern video game which even remotely resembles Planescape: Torment? Such games just aren't being made and haven't been made since. So there really isn't anything to compare it too. Well, maybe Mask of the Betrayer, but that was technically an expansion and not a complete game in itself. The graphics will take a little getting used to if you never played early post-millenium cRPGs, but the game as a whole doesn't compare to most modern games because it is much, much better. People who never learned to read or can't be bother reading should avoid it though.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42228845)

I tried playing MotB not long ago. I gave up 2 minutes in.
The camera controls were a mess, the game was unplayable.

It doesn't matter if you've got a good story, if the game technically sucks and you cannot bring it to an audience, it's just useless.

Re:FUCK YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42229233)

They did bring it to an audience, when it was released. Unfortunately, this medium advances rapidly. Part of discovering the magic of old games is the willingness to bring yourself to the game. 2 minutes is not a sufficient amount of time to do that. No one said it's easy, but everyone who has done so reports back that it was rewarding. Allow yourself to try.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

0111 1110 (518466) | about 2 years ago | (#42230549)

I agree that, although noticeably improved from the utterly unplayable interface of pre-MotB NWN2, the interface was still awful. If you can manage to get past it though MotB was still one of the best cRPGs that had been made in years.

Re:FUCK YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228829)

What do you mean play a mage? As I recall, you played multiple character classes throughout the course of the game. One more reason PS:T is, imho, the best RPG ever made. Great writing and art (for the time), voice acting was decent, and the gameplay was at least as good as baldur's gate. Shadows of amn had a bit more polish, but it wasn't nearly as gritty or as fun - and for the story and writing there's no comparison...

Re:FUCK YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228939)

Yes, you can change classes. However, your initial statistic allocation affects how successful you are in each of the classes. Also, at one points there's a commitment phase, where you get plusses to attributes depending on which class you want to specialize in. So yes you could spend your points on intelligence and wisdom, and specialize as a mage, and then switch to fighter anyway, but I'm assuming combat would be pretty tricky.

There's an argument for specializing in the physical skills instead, since the game seems to offer more bonuses to mental skills along the way. However, some of the big ones don't come until later on, by which point you'll have missed a bunch of interesting dialog options. High physical stats give you additional options too, usually in the form of dialog-based instakills, but that's not nearly so interesting.

Re:FUCK YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42229521)

"What can change the nature of a man?" Near the end of the game another incarnation of the main character will give you an answer. It's a good one, but it feels incomplete...

I always thought the main point of this question is that each person has his own answer. But then, your thinking that answer given near the end of the game is also, in a way, your own answer.

Re:FUCK YES (1)

Simploid (1649955) | about 2 years ago | (#42237721)

"What can change the nature of a man?"

Will, for the purposeful

The flipside (2)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 2 years ago | (#42227825)

The flipside of this is if you make it too alien, the players won't have anything to relate to, nothing to grasp and identify with. Finding the right balance is the trick.

Fuck balance. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42227909)

Fuck balance, I want to meet more letters of the alphabet. Perhaps in a bar whose mascot is an everburning archmage, a living portal to the elemental plane of fire. And afterwards haggle with the bartender to sell me back my eye, floating in a glass jar behind the bar.

Yes, you do stuff like that (actually, exactly that) in Planescape:Torment.

Re:Fuck balance. (1)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 2 years ago | (#42227963)

But I can immediately understand and relate to everything you just said. Its wacky but its not particularly alien. My concern is with comments like "The farther away we stray from comfortable routine, the more likely we are to challenge ourselves", the problem being if you stray too far the challenge of just understanding what's going on becomes less and less fun.

Re:Fuck balance. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228077)

Can we maybe figure out how to cross that bridge when we come to it? I can't recall too many video games that are utterly unintelligible.

Re:Fuck balance. (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | about 2 years ago | (#42228009)

I just want to create people simply by saying a random name enough times.

Re:Fuck balance. (1)

TFAFalcon (1839122) | about 2 years ago | (#42228111)

Eh, that you sold the guy your eye was the 'normal' part of this encounter. That you buy back the pickled eye, pluck out your current eye (the barman helpfully cuts the optic nerve) and stuff the rapidly decomposing eye in your head is the really fun part.

Re:The flipside (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228115)

As long as there are characters, dialogue and causation, anything can be relatable.

Good luck with that (4, Interesting)

Mitreya (579078) | about 2 years ago | (#42227913)

Planescape was such a wonderful game because there was a lot of interesting dialog (I believe all but 4 situations in the entire game could potentially be resolved without fighting, by bluff/threats/etc)

The game probably failed (commercially) because it required a lot of reading. What are the chances they will risk doing that again?

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | about 2 years ago | (#42228003)

I could see a kickstarter campaign being successful. The game definitely has a following, even if it's still cult status. Space sims are pretty niche these days, and yet Star Citizen did amazingly well.

Re:Good luck with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228095)

Because project eternity was just backed att almost 4 times its 1.1 million dollar budget? Mainly due to having made games just like Planescape: Torment. A kickstarter would not just be succesful, it will easily be funded at 2 million dollars, practically over night.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42228363)

Many japanese games require a lot of reading and are commercial successes.
But then, they have cute girls in them.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42228543)

The game didn't fail. It wasn't exactly a blockbuster, but it sold well.

Re:Good luck with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228717)

The game probably failed (commercially) because it required a lot of reading. What are the chances they will risk doing that again?

...and then there's the numerous bugs and fact that the item system while neat wasn't exactly finished. Not to say it wasn't an awesome game, quite the opposite. It was a great game even accounting for all the bugs.

Don't need luck, just competent marketing (2)

d_gorn (2426908) | about 2 years ago | (#42232419)

PS:T didn't fail because of the reading required. It failed because it was advertised as another 'Diablo'.

If the marketing had been better, it would've crushed. Believe it or not, ppl need to play a game before deciding it's 'too wordy'. The sale comes first, then the 'boredom'.

To whit: "It's clearly the best traditional computer role-playing game of the year and is bound to be an all-time favorite for many of its inevitable fans." ( http://www.gamespot.com/planescape-torment/ [gamespot.com] )

Nothing wrong with the game, bro.

Wizards of the Coast sheeesh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42228047)

All I can say from years of reading about these guys is that they are a bunch of stingy, stubborn asshats. They buy the rights to items and then sit on them. They don't improve them, they don't make sequels or prequels for them, they just sit and wait for someone to ask for rights and then say "NO!! :("

I'm not hopeful... (1)

Ginger_Chris (1068390) | about 2 years ago | (#42228119)

This is a quote from a different interview he did:

"I'd put it some place other than Planescape. I'd use a system other than D&D, because I'd want to align the player's story axes along different lines than Good/Evil or Law/Chaos to something more subjective"

So, it's just going to be another RPG then? Hopefully a good one with deep characters and excellent writing - but I'm sure sure how this will be the sequel to Planescape: Torment.

Re:I'm not hopeful... (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42228389)

Just trying to build some hype and get the planescape fans to into the project

Re:I'm not hopeful... (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about 2 years ago | (#42228917)

Comparing vaporware to Planescape is a great way to draw the ire of Planescape fans.

Spiritual sequel is not a sequel (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about 2 years ago | (#42228809)

More than half of what made planescape torment was the planescape setting. "$unfamiliar_fantasy_setting torment" sounds less likely to draw my dollars (not that I'd pay for a DRM crippled planescape game anyway).

Re:Spiritual sequel is not a sequel (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42230421)

Good logic.

I'm not familiar with Middle Earth, therefore I avoid reading The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

Re:Spiritual sequel is not a sequel (1)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 2 years ago | (#42240211)

You're missing the point.

If you already have a massive world to lean back on, the flavor of the world is already there.

That is what makes the forgotten realms and planescape games so great, the worlds are so amazingly complex that you get a whole normal fantasy world out of a single region or even country.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/wd_maps/FRposterLarge_150.jpg [wizards.com]

Look at that map.
Notice the tiny area south of Baldur's Gate reaching the way to Tethyr?
That would be the entire Baldur's Gate Saga, barring a few other locations you where at.

That region is not even one of the more mapped out ones in the world.

Every region could house such a game and have automatic flavor.

And here's the kicker, that map is pretty much just the equivalent of Europe+western Asia (think Russia) and Africa.
They also have the far east and some limited material about the equivalnet of America.

There is no point in building an actual world for a game, hence, using one that already exists gives you a MUCH richer flavor.

Re:Spiritual sequel is not a sequel (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42235501)

I completely agree. If there is no setting continuity, it's a brand new game with similar game mechanics at best (kind of like Dune 2 vs C&C or Doom 2 vs Quake).

Continuity is a big part of the success equation, otherwise why would game companies, movie producers, or book writers bother to maintain a story from release to release.

Losing perspective... (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | about 2 years ago | (#42230281)

... while planescape was good for what it was, the huge story emphasis and the old combat system may turn off newer gamers.

Not only that planescape is closer to a visual novel then a game because of its huge over-emphasis on conversations and story, if anything planescape is closer to the cut-scene based dialogue heavy games like Mass effect then it is to oldschool RPG's - true dungeon crawlers, like say eye of the beholder, wizardry, early ultima's, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, PC RPG's from the late 90's like baldurs gate and torment moved away from good dungeon crawling combat of the earliest PC RPG's and their combat systems never felt as well designed as earlier games. I play RPG's for combat, if the combat sucks I'm out. Story is nice to have but I wanted great combat and dungeon crawling before story.

I loved Grimrock for it's attempt to put dungeon crawling back at the fore front (gameplay) over story in RPG's.

http://www.grimrock.net/ [grimrock.net]

Now Grimrocks combat wasn't perfect but I'd love to see new developments in making combat intrinsically rewarding and interesting again, instead of too much resources spent on story/cut-scenes like in modern games and mid to late 90's RPG's like torment. I feel most RPG's over the last 15 or so years have gotten far away from what made old RPG's great - the combat, exploration and puzzle solving. Instead of huge emphasis on cutscenes, story and dialogue.

Re:Losing perspective... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42230447)

There are literally thousands of hack and slash "RPG"s available to you. It would be a good idea if the action was good enough to keep people like you busy, but that's just for marketing reasons. The story focus must be kept. There's no sane reason to convert something unique into something that's been done to death.

I also have to strongly disagree that Torment's text-heavy, dialog-based system is anything like cutscenes. They both tell a story, true, but this is a very superficial similarity:

1. Reading is massively different from watching (arguably better, if the writing is excellent and tied well into the graphics, and if the reader has a good imagination.)

2. Torment lets you choose how the scene plays out, with massively different consequences depending on your choice.

3. Text is really, really cheap compared to cutscenes. 800,000 is a HELL of a lot of words. Do you have any idea how many unique interactions there are? Text lets you increase the amount of *stuff* you can do by an order of magnitude, maybe two.

Torment had a tremendous number of puzzles btw, though they were often story-based.

Re:Losing perspective... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42230477)

So if a game decides to defy genre conventions and do something genuinely novel, they are "losing focus"?

Its gonna suck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42230419)

The original was made in 1999 when games were different, developers were inspired gamers who strived to make their mark and make a game they were passionate about, the entire gaming industry was different and gamers themselves were different. So if people expect this to be good based purely on nostalgia they are in for a rude awakening. Games are a product of their era, a snapshot in time. Sure you can make a game look retro all you want but hardly anyone is able to capture what made the originals so much because things have changed and people changed.

The movie industry is the same way when they ressurect some old movie a decade or more then it always sucks because look at indiana jones and kingdom of the crystal skull, the star wars prequels, rocky 5, blues brothers 2000, and basically every remake of a old horror movie.

But gamers just like movie goers are fucking idiots. They see a name of something old slapped on a new product and a wave of nostalgia washes over them and they get brainwashed into thinking its going to be good just because it bares a name of something from their youth.

Personally Id rather see them make something new, make something their own instead of just trying to stay within the confines of a outdated product created in a different era of gaming by different people. It limits their abilities to be creative by having to stick with something someone else did a long time ago. Im sick of shameless cash ins by developers trying to pander to gamers sense of nostalgia by throwing together a remake or just another sequel in order to get some quick cash. Id rather have new games, games that seem inspired, games that try to have their own voice instead of just shitting out the same old thing.

And thats why I hate kickstarter because kickstarter does nothing but foster this among small time developers. They just do the same thing the big developers do and make the same old garbage only this time its the gamers footing the bill upfront before the product is even created or made. Thats why you constantly hear about yet another kickstarter game that is just a sequel or remake of some old series that isnt around now for a reason. It encourages developers to be lazy by doing another sequel and getting money for it.

A true sequel to Planescape Torment will flop now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42230605)

Too many kids with ADD who have a short attention span and want instant gratification.

They're not going to click through lines of dialogue text. They'll just scoff it and call it 'boring', ' wall of text' or 'TL:DR'.
They prefer to play hack&slash games or first person shooters.
They don't even read books regularly.

And that is precisely why (real-time and turn based) strategy games have been languishing in the last decade.
I'll give you a good example: Koei would rather ignore its turn-based strategy game 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' for years and instead develop the crappy ''Dynasty Warriors' games. So kids who have zero patience can hack and slash mindlessly on their consoles.

It's a sad state of gaming these days. On one hand, you have the casual game 'freemium' devs who want to monetize everything and apply microstransactions everywhere. On the other hand, you have the graphics whores who put up flashy trailers but it turns out the games are shallow and have next to no replay value, maybe except for 'unlocking' stuff. And if content is lacking in the original game... they'll just put up DLCs which you have to pay for. DLCs which are in the most traditional sense NOT expansion packs.

And that is why EA, despite itself, is doing well.

i loved playing that freaking game (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#42230779)

the audio, the sublime plots, the weird characters, the engrossing environments, the cool ideas

this is really wonderful news

except: this time, ditch the "choose your own adventure" endless dialog boxes, that was the only source of tedium

Five bucks it sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42231475)

One, anytime I hear the term 'spiritual successor' I cringe. Its a crappy marketing term. It means: "we really want you to believe this is like the old game (even though its not). Please suspend any critical thought and gives us your money.

Two, its been twelve years. Do you really think you are the target audience? The people the game is being made for are NOT YOU. Sure, there are some crusty flakes out there that played the old one, but old fans aren't the demographic that is gonna make them money.

Three, its been twelve years! Games are an amalgamation of gaming trends, technology, and the actual people who developed the game. None of these things are the same. Even if someone on the old development team is now involved in the new one, do you really think he or she is the same person or will make the same kinda of game? If you do, you need to watch the latest Indiana Jones film.

Redo Planescape Torment. (2)

Lord Chaos EOG (1683154) | about 2 years ago | (#42234549)

Don't make a successor like that, I think it will likely suck or at least will be shied away from by gamers. They should upgradet the original game to modern graphics and interface. Keep the original story and characters. (heck even hire the original voice actors) This would be way better

Huh (1)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 2 years ago | (#42240217)

Spritual successor, which doesn't even use the same setting, the setting which was a fundamental part of the success and the reason the game was awesome.

Kinda lika saying kicking around a ham alone would be a spiritual successor to soccer.

Cheap T-Shirt,belt,hat,sunglasses sale (1)

iueyuqru (2793603) | about 2 years ago | (#42260265)

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Planescape:Torment is $5 on gog.com (1)

foreverdisillusioned (763799) | about 2 years ago | (#42269753)

http://www.gog.com/gamecard/planescape_torment [gog.com] DRM free, it appears

http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.com/2009/01/planescape-torment-fully-modded.html

Platinum rating running under Wine: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=294 [winehq.org]

If you're ok with 90s graphics and the fact that this is much more an interactive novel than hack n slash, there's absolutely no reason not to check it out.
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