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Ubuntu Community Manager: RMS's Post Seems a Bit Childish To Me

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the war-or-words dept.

GNU is Not Unix 529

spacenet writes "As a response to RMS speaking out against Ubuntu about its privacy-violating integrated Amazon search results, which he considers to be spyware, Ubuntu Community Manager Jono Bacon has addressed RMS's statements. In his reply, Jono claims that Stallman's views on privacy do not align with Canonical's, that some of his statements are worded in order to 'generate fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Ubuntu' and that 'it just seems a bit childish to me.' The comments on the post itself are well worth a read."

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Ooh boy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236645)

Ooh boy.

Re: Ooh boy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236685)

Linux troll trying to deflect the conversation. No critisim of Linux allowed

Re: Ooh boy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237133)

A post such as above reinforces every opinion I hold of Microsoft, its tactics, and its camp followers.

Snappyhole (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236649)

Your butthole is now a circular door from a science fiction movie.

Nothing wrong with him (-1, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#42236669)

Nothing wrong at all with this man [youtube.com]

Re:DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236741)

It is RMS alright!!

It is worse than goatse however. Be warned!!

Re:Nothing wrong with him (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236755)

Worse than goatse. For real.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (1, Insightful)

egr (932620) | about 2 years ago | (#42236771)

Getting kinda old though

Re:Nothing wrong with him (-1, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#42236789)

I have never seen until about a week ago.

I am surprised it was never linked here. Or maybe I never saw it?

Re:Nothing wrong with him (4, Insightful)

Tough Love (215404) | about 2 years ago | (#42236781)

A post such as above reinfrorces every opinion I hold of Microsoft, its tactics, and its camp followers.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (0)

kokako (2499876) | about 2 years ago | (#42236983)

I wish I had mod points for this. Who cares what Stallman eats or does with his toes. What counts is whether he has a point or not, and surely Slashdot of all places should embrace the geeks and freaks that don't care about bourgeois social norms and Emily Post etiquette bullshit. Fuck all of you juvenile morons / Microsoft trolls.

That said, I like Ubuntu. But I do agree that the shopping lens stuff is a bad move, and Bacon doesn't address its critics at all here.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237029)

Who cares what Stallman eats or does with his toes.

The live audience probably cared.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236811)

Ad hominem much? I often eat my dandruff but that doesn't mean I can't do algebra or understand my rights.

Re:Nothing wrong with him...apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237071)

I don't know about dandruff but I often eat my own semen. As well as the semen of other, of course. It is nutricious and tasty => http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3304761&cid=42236811 [slashdot.org]

APK

PS: if you're interested, we can swap semen some time. Either through the mouth or butt.

...apk

Re:Nothing wrong with him (3, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#42236835)

Ad-hominem. Your entire post is invalid.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (2, Insightful)

alucardX (734977) | about 2 years ago | (#42236985)

Bad hygiene is one thing, opinions and ideas are another. I think that everyone should leave this video out of discussions about real issues. All it does is detract from the topic under discussion. If you want to fixate on that video start a blog and talk about it all that you want.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236987)

Argumentum ad pedem.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237089)

I would like to see a video if Bill Gates chewing the corporations he bankrupt just for profit

Re:Nothing wrong with him (2)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | about 2 years ago | (#42237129)

Feel better, Mr nobody?

"Bertrand Russell was so inept, physically, that he could never learn to make a pot of tea."

"Immanuel Kant could not manage to sharpen a quill pen with a penknife."

"John Stuart Mill could barely tie a simple knot."

Who cares? They are not fameous for that.

Re:Nothing wrong with him (5, Funny)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | about 2 years ago | (#42237135)

It's famous, idoit!

Re:Nothing wrong with him (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237167)

He's from Britain you insensitve cloud!

Re:Nothing wrong with him (3, Informative)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | about 2 years ago | (#42237239)

No, I'm not.

Yeah.. and? (5, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about 2 years ago | (#42236689)

I think we can agree that RMS can be childish. I was in the room when he broke into the room yelling at OSCON's Openoffice announcement. That's the way he is.

Even though I don't and never will agree with him 100% (that's worship) I am happy he's there, especially when there are thousands of people on the other side in IT yelling through coporate bullhorns constantly. His big mouth is a counterweight. If the braindead microsoft zombies that control IT in corporate america have heard of anyone's views it is probably his. I am not sure if Ubuntu is trying to become yet another Open Source company that is canibalized and eaten from inside by today's vile corporate belief system, but at least RMS let us know it COULD happen...

Re:Yeah.. and? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236701)

"His big mouth is a counterweight"

I think more likely he has a foot in his mouth [youtube.com] .

Re:Yeah.. and? (4, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about 2 years ago | (#42236705)

we saw it once. You can stop posting it.

Re:Yeah.. and? (-1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 2 years ago | (#42236747)

we saw it once. You can stop posting it.

I've never seen it...

Re:Yeah.. and? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236803)

Pretty much my first thought, too. How do you tell if RMS is sounding childish? His lips are moving. But reasonable people rarely really change anything.

Exactly. (5, Insightful)

Rob Simpson (533360) | about 2 years ago | (#42236879)

Is RMS wrong? It doesn't sound like it. I don't care if he's childish.

Re:Exactly. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237115)

Is RMS wrong? It doesn't sound like it. I don't care if he's childish.

Yes. I strongly believe he is wrong on every substantial issue he raises. I think his use of copyright law to force sharing (the GPL) is a clever legal hack, but his desire to prioritize the "freedom" of systems over those systems actually doing anything useful is totally unreasonable. Talking about "freedom" from proprietary software strikes me as ridiculous over-the-top rhetoric. Software freedom is so much less importsant than other forms of freedom (freedom from slavery, freedom of speech, freedom of association, etc) in the real world that I can't take his writing seriously.

I took the time to read his views and come to that conclusion. Given his childish behavior, rant-laden writing style, and inability to express a coherent argument, I am sure the vast majority of software developers have never bothered to learn what his actual positions are. The only people who can stand to listen to him are those who forgive those traits because they already agree with what he says. You can't expect to grow a movement that way, even if your movement has a purpose that makes sense.

Re:Yeah.. and? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236977)

His big mouth is a counterweight.

No, his big mouth is a liability for the open-source community. He is not a passionate but outspoken advocate of a movement; he is a single-minded, uncompromising advocate for his own opinions at the expense of everyone else's. Either you agree with him, or you are wrong.

Have you ever encountered one of the Free Software Foundation's articles about a particular software topic, like copyright or patents or the advantages of free software? Ever notice that, typically, at least 80% of the citations in the article are to other articles by Richard Stallman? Like this one? [fsfe.org] The only opinion Richard Stallman really recognizes as objective or authoritative is his own earlier opinion.

Re:Yeah.. and? (4, Insightful)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 2 years ago | (#42237057)

Without corporate involvement, Linux wouldn't be anywhere near what it is today.

OpenOffice and its derivatives (basically the de-facto office suites of linux) itself was born out of corporate interests.

The GPL had the effect (unintended? I don't know as the philosophy of many developers involved in GPL projects seems to vary) of being that the software provides a service, and we don't (necessarily) profit from distributing the software itself, but rather profit from selling the services that it provides, or profit from selling services that provide for its users. Redistributing changes for others to use therefore does not harm your bottom line.

Linux itself was written by Linus Torvalds, not RMS. And as far as I'm aware, other than GCC the majority of corporate distribution of linux to end users doesn't use GNUtils very much (e.g. android, tivo, soho routers, and many others.) Even if they did, they could always just take the BSD implementations which in nearly all cases are every bit as good.

If RMS takes issue with that, he can go promote Hurd (aka Turd) to the world, which has little if any corporate involvement, and likewise is back in the stone age by comparison.

Re:Yeah.. and? (4, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#42237095)

but at least RMS let us know it COULD happen...

He could have a little class though doing it. Like bursting in and yelling "TROLL! In the dungeon! ... Thought you'd want to know," and then collapsing on the floor. Busting in on someone else's announcement and unleashing a string of profanities and ranting isn't classy -- it's how drunk people act. Is that really who we want as the poster child for the open source movement? A guy who looks like he hasn't shaved or showered in ages and acts piss drunk in public?

Interesting.... (2, Interesting)

3seas (184403) | about 2 years ago | (#42236695)

Now I'm being managed.... What another good linux distro? Anyone?

Good grief... (3, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 2 years ago | (#42236815)

Now I'm being managed.... What another good linux distro? Anyone?

It is so trivial to disable (and remove) this "feature" that bitching about it is almost meaningless and indeed borderlines on childishness.

In reality, it is not much different that an ad-supported application (such as Opera had at one time), except with those, you didn't have the freedom to permanently remove the ad without paying up - which is not the case here.

And of course, no one is forcing anyone to download and install Ubuntu, unless of course you are interested in a fairly easy to install distro that works out of the box with most modern equipment - which is a great thing for the less technically savvy.

In short, this is a non-issue and RMS is (as expected) over-reacting to something that doesn't fit into his perfect Socialist software society.

RMS is a great man, but like many great men, sometimes he's a raving lunatic.

Re:Good grief... (5, Insightful)

Rob the Bold (788862) | about 2 years ago | (#42236963)

It is so trivial to disable (and remove) this "feature" that bitching about it is almost meaningless and indeed borderlines on childishness.

Yes, for those of us aware of the issue and are a little more technically savvy . . . but . . .

[Ubuntu is] a fairly easy to install distro that works out of the box with most modern equipment - which is a great thing for the less technically savvy.

(Last emphasis in quote is mine.) A less technically savvy person could google "remove amazon search dash" and probably figure out how to disable it, but he'd first need to know about it.

Re:Good grief... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237125)

What, those images from Amazon that appear in the Dash under "Online results" isn't enough of a clue that their searches are going out over the internet? Spyware indeed.

Re:Good grief... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237025)

In reality, it is not much different that an ad-supported application (such as Opera had at one time), except with those, you didn't have the freedom to permanently remove the ad without paying up - which is not the case here.

No, this is spyware, because it is sending information about user activity to the net in settings where users might not expect it. The closest you get in Opera and the likes is search suggestions, which can send your half-typed URLs to Google, but at least then you pretty much expect the data to end up on the net.

no one is forcing anyone to download and install Ubuntu

Exactly. We are free to tell them to go fuck themselves, and we should. It's not like their users are getting anything in return for this. It's pretty clear that Ubuntu is just going to keep adding abuse upon their users whether it be for monetization or politics. I'd certainly never direct the "less technically savvy" to a distro that keeps fucking up the sound and the user interface.

Switch to a distro that respects you.

Re:Good grief... (4, Insightful)

hazah (807503) | about 2 years ago | (#42237051)

You should not have to disable anything. On the contrary, this "feature" should be deliberatly enabled by the user. No one is arguing over the triviality of how to disable it. You said it yourself, this is a distribution that works out of the box. It stands to reason that the majority of its users do not understand the issue nor its implications. Therefore it's plausible that they will not be able to recognize the real need to disable this "feature". This put's Ubuntu against the spirit of the entire community within which they've setup shop. No one here is really arguing that Ubuntu should not be free to operate as they see fit to make a profit, however, they are now stepping on the toes of the giants on which they are shouldered. A completely dickhead attitude that isn't going to lend them any credit for the spirit of freedom.

Re:Good grief... (1)

EvolutionInAction (2623513) | about 2 years ago | (#42237053)

Nobody is forcing him to use Ubuntu. So what the hell are you bitching about? Canonical has intentionally implemented something that 3seas doesn't like, and has repeatedly defended the decision. Why should 3seas continue to use a product they put out? Hell, I don't particularly trust them anymore, either. I don't care if they had the very best of intentions.

Re:Good grief... (5, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | about 2 years ago | (#42237171)

In short, this is a non-issue and RMS is (as expected) over-reacting to something that doesn't fit into his perfect Socialist software society.

You know, RMS has been vindicated so many times, I am frankly surprised there still are people trying to put him down, especially with the kind of labeling ("perfect Socialist software society") that makes you look like a douche.

Re:Good grief... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237193)

Well, if it's so trivial, then why do Canonical not remove it?

Re:Good grief... (2)

marcello_dl (667940) | about 2 years ago | (#42237221)

It is not a big issue itself, it's a big signal though: those who sell user data without a fricking "I agree" dialog are not very trustworthy. I had already lost Canonical when they decided a 50 meg tomboy app was to stay in an installation cd and gimp had to go.

This is not spreading FUD, this is being in FUD and telling others.

The ease of solving the problem posed by Canonical choices is a BIG advertisement to FOSS philosophy. Ultimately the user is free. Free to hop to another distro without losing documents, or even configuration files. To remove the unwanted feature.

Re:Interesting.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236895)

Jono has held the position of "community manager" at Canonical since 2006.

Re:Interesting.... (4, Insightful)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42236917)

Try Mint. You will never go back to Ubuntu.

Re:Interesting.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237009)

Most of us are going (back) to Debian.

It's broken away from some of the bad habits that made Ubuntu relevant in the first place.

Although it still has its fair share of issues, but you'll have those in any group.

Re:Interesting.... (4, Interesting)

chronokitsune3233 (2170390) | about 2 years ago | (#42237139)

Debian isn't too bad, and it's what Ubuntu is based upon, though it's not as "bleeding-edge" while still being stable. Others might suggest Fedora, Arch or Slackware if you want that, and I've heard good things about Sabayon as well, especially in the eye candy department, though it has been a few years.

In all honesty, I keep going back to Debian. My needs aren't too difficult to satisfy, and I can compile something myself if I really need to. I'd recommend using virtual machines to test them first. Why overwrite a perfectly good installation just to find you don't like something?

Re:Interesting.... (5, Informative)

blind biker (1066130) | about 2 years ago | (#42237195)

What another good linux distro?

When Ubuntu decided to poop on their users with Unity, there was an exodus of biblical proportions to Linux Mint. That's why Mint is now the #1 distro.

And thanks to Ubuntu's newest decisions, the Mint userbase is destined to grow even further.

I can't comment on his post... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236699)

Because my privacy filter is disabling the commenting function of his...

The world wide web and half of the Internet is tracking itself to death.

But I'm using Debian and I wouldn't touch Ubuntu or any other closed source or privacy-invading OS with a ten foot pole.

Childis,h says Jono Bacon .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236723)

... of LugRadio fame ... ha ha ha ;-)

This from "Jono" (-1, Troll)

devloop (983641) | about 2 years ago | (#42236727)

Yeah, and "Jonathan Edward James Bacon" calling himself "Jono" is oh-so-totally mature and not childish at all.

Re:This from "Jono" (2)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about 2 years ago | (#42236875)

Hmmm, I don't know if you've met many Jonathans but some abbreviate their name Jon, others Jono because it's less confusing than having people think your name is 'John'.

No different than being named Steve, Bob, Jim, Dave, Pete etc.

You really want to offend RMS? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236735)

Send him some gift-wrapped soap.

He crazy but necessary (4, Insightful)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 2 years ago | (#42236737)

Richard is an academic. He doesn't live in the real world and it doesn't help that he is probably a little looney. That said, he can be right on a lot of points and even if he's wrong if he opens up a discussion then you can still say he's done his bit.

Re: He crazy but necessary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236851)

With a comment like that, I bet you can't wait to do his bit again.

Re:He crazy but necessary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236869)

How exactly is he an academic? He has a degree, but he hasn't been employed by a school nor has he been a student in a very long time.

Re:He crazy but necessary (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236993)

"Academic" has a lot of meanings.

- A member of the Academy; a follower of Plato, a Platonist.
- A member of an academy, college, or university; an academician.
- A person who attends an academy.
- One who is academic in practice.
- Belonging to an academy or other higher institution of learning; also a scholarly society or organization.
- Pertaining to or characteristic of a school.
- Belonging to the school or philosophy of Plato; as, the academic sect or philosophy.
- Being scholarly; literary or classical, in distinction from scientific.
- Conforming to set rules and traditions; conventional; formalistic.
- Having an aptitude for study.
- (pejorative) Having no practical importance.
- To be so scholarly as to be unaware of the outside world.
- Theoretical or speculative.

Re:He crazy but necessary (2, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#42236979)

He doesn't live in the real world and it doesn't help that he is probably a little looney.

That's a bigger problem than most people want to admit. Very often, an open source project doesn't fail because it's technically inferior to other products, but because of ideological differences between developers. Take the *BSD community: It's dying right now because it split off into four major variants due to political in-fighting. The reason why Linux and Apache have succeeded isn't just technical superiority, but because those groups kept political infighting to a managable level. That's the biggest problem in the open source community right now -- it's leadership ability. Frankly, there isn't a whole lot of that with engineers. Engineers want to build things, not manage it, and their respect of others within a project is based solely on technical ability. So the only projects that really succeed are when by happy coincidence the lead developer also possesses leadership ability. And this is a rare combination! Not just in open source, but everywhere. The better you are at technical skills (as a rule) the worse you are with people skills.

Richard could be one of those much-needed bridge people who can lead and also garner respect for his technical skills, but he's too damn stubborn and headstrong. His only real use in the community anymore is as a lighthouse -- a warning to others not to become too political, lest you become marginalized and gimp. If he'd just let up a little bit and recognize that getting 90% of what you want is still a win, maybe he could be useful. Right now though, the "All or nothing" approach isn't doing him any favors, just like almost everyone else -- whether it's business, politics, or hobby, very few people succeed with that attitude.

Re:He crazy but necessary (4, Insightful)

orasio (188021) | about 2 years ago | (#42237091)

Well, that's your point of view.
What I see is that the GPL is one of the most used software licenses in the world, and it represents exacly his idea.
RMS has had great, awesome partial successes. His philosophy is shared by a lot of people, in practice, and his work has been key to us having real, viable, modern, free software platforms today. Without his work particularly and him been so "political", I don't think we could have gone this far.

Re:He crazy but necessary (3, Insightful)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | about 2 years ago | (#42237105)

Richard is an academic.

RMS is a religion.

Defines ethics for people to follow? Check.

Loves to shove his views down other people's throats? Check.

Ostracizes anyone who don't follow his strict views? Check.

Has a confusing mix of greater-good that helps people tolerate his batshit-crazy? Check.

Has an old tome with several revisions and unfortunate interpretations, which many people praise without actually understanding it? Check.

Ubuntu (1)

Tyler R. (2787023) | about 2 years ago | (#42236743)

If anything, I think Canonical's being a tad bit childish. They lock us out of alpha/beta test to develop in "secret", and are in the process of turning their OS into a shopping cart. What next?!? Close source the project? It's the very reason I'm typing this from my Kubuntu machine and loving it. :-)

Re:Ubuntu (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236831)

no, they have not locked anyone out of alpha or beta testing. They do daily builds and this time they are not calling any particular one of them an alpha or a beta, but nobody is locked out of any of them. If they said they were doing "daily betas" that would be just as true, but a different spin on it. Here, have a copy of the Alpha that was released today. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/

Re:Ubuntu (1)

Tyler R. (2787023) | about 2 years ago | (#42236955)

Thank You. I was not aware of this. I thought they cut pre-releases all together. I'll try it our in VMware when I get the chance. :-)

Busted (5, Insightful)

Tough Love (215404) | about 2 years ago | (#42236757)

Busted by RMS for adding spyware to Linux, which is not in doubt. Cue the defiant spin. Bad strategy. Ubuntu guys should talk less about their Apple envy and more about doing the right thing.

Re:Busted (4, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 2 years ago | (#42236827)

I think that is exactly their problem. As I posted in the other related story here, they seem to be hoping that they can make an OS with an 'oooooh, shiny' factors that makes people drop their principles. Asking their users for money is a much better approach than defaulting to sending search results to Amazon, and I think they'd get more money long term. By all means, have one of the 'lenses' installable so that people can do Amazon searches if they want, but having it as a default is not going to make very many people happy.

Re:Busted (0)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 2 years ago | (#42237013)

As I posted in the other related story here, they seem to be hoping that they can make an OS with an 'oooooh, shiny' factors that makes people drop their principles.

Also known as the Apple strategy.

Re:Busted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237113)

Apple users don't have any principles ;-)

Re:Busted (1)

Curupira (1899458) | about 2 years ago | (#42237225)

Asking their users for money is a much better approach than defaulting to sending search results to Amazon, and I think they'd get more money long term.

Please read: A Personal Appeal from Ubuntu Founder Mark Shuttleworth

Hey, it worked for Jimmy Wales!

It's all about the benjamins (2)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 2 years ago | (#42237039)

The truth is Ubuntu will not continue to exist unless they can make money. This isn't the first strategy they've tried.

As much as I despise the "feature," I'd rather have to disable some settings when I install than to not have Ubuntu (and its derivatives.)

Re:Busted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237165)

Like it or not, if Linux is going to move into the future and get out of the hole it's in, It's going to be Ubuntu that moves it forward; and quite frankly HAS been moving it forward. Don't like the feature? It's Open Source, remove it yourself.

Which is more than I can say for the Ads in Windows Apps, yeah try removing those yourself!. You guys better get your head out your ass.

Pretty much Godwin's Law (5, Insightful)

trollboy (46578) | about 2 years ago | (#42236763)

When you say "just look at facebook" for a comparison of your privacy policies... you kinda prove RMS's point.

Re:Pretty much Godwin's Law (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237027)

Facebook as the new Hitler. That's adorably accurate.

Does Amazon pay Canonical for this? (5, Interesting)

astrashe (7452) | about 2 years ago | (#42236793)

Doesn't Amazon pay Canonical if people make purchases? (I might be wrong about this -- if I am, please correct me.)

*If* Amazon does pay Canonical, and Bacon doesn't mention that in his post, I kind of feel like Bacon loses the argument. I mean, if they're getting paid, and he's making posts that say, "We're doing this only because we want you to have the best search experience," it seems a little disingenuous.

Re:Does Amazon pay Canonical for this? (5, Informative)

spacenet (2555388) | about 2 years ago | (#42236807)

All the search results open an Amazon webpage with Canonical's Amazon Affiliate Code [amazon.com] , which adds a tracking cookie to your session and makes Canonical get back an undisclosed percentage of all your Amazon purchases, as long as that cookie stays there.

Re:Does Amazon pay Canonical for this? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236967)

you say "undisclosed" as if it was something being kept secret from you. The rates are here https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/gp/associates/join/landing/referralfees.html it is a sliding scale with some other complications like different categories of products getting different rates. They will get a mix of commissions, generally between 5 and 10% and Canonical won't know until the reports come in from Amazon what the exact percentages are going to be.

Re:Does Amazon pay Canonical for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236971)

I wonder if someone has a patent on this type of business model ...

Re:Does Amazon pay Canonical for this? (5, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | about 2 years ago | (#42237081)

All the search results open an Amazon webpage with Canonical's Amazon Affiliate Code [amazon.com], which adds a tracking cookie to your session and makes Canonical get back an undisclosed percentage of all your Amazon purchases, as long as that cookie stays there.

In the Windows world, we call that "malware".

"Privacy-violating integrated Amazon results??" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236813)

I detect the slightest of agendas of the writer here. Just the slightest.

Seriously, I am all for privacy protection, but can /. stop crying wolf? There are far more deadly threats to privacy out there then the equivalent of going to amazon.com....

Re:"Privacy-violating integrated Amazon results??" (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236853)

The issue here is not to go to amazon.com, it's that everything you type in Ubuntu's search bar is sent to Canonical and to Amazon, whether you want Amazon search results or not. (Unless you manually disable it)

Re:"Privacy-violating integrated Amazon results??" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236915)

Why are you posting AC? There are far more deadly threats to privacy out there then [sic] the equivalent of posting using a CB handle.

screw canonical RMS is right on (switch to fedora) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236833)

RMS is correct Ubuntu added very invasive non-opt in desktop search spyware in effect. It was certainly I a very negative surprise to me to learn that anything you type in the auto-complete app search - which you have to use to find anything on their awful UX - that it sends that to canonical HQ! Thats absolutely horrible. What if I type something confidential not realizing its doing that (like the name of a bid or competitive information or something relevant to a huge court case), then canonical gets hit with subpoenas for the search archives. Boom.

Or canonical gets hacked by someone like anonymous and the search terms collected and leaked. Its mega embarrassing on the part of canonical.

RMS is not wrong. RMS is very right in this case. (And usually as far as that goes - I support whole heartedly most things he has to say about DRM, copyright control, patents. Just because corporate interests aggressively use and abuse those unethical and unproductive government enforced monopolies doesnt make it right.

Goodbye, Ubuntu. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236855)

"If you can't get the message get the man" - Mel Gibson from an interview

I like how, in the previous RMS post to Slashdot, people were attacking him, even pointing out some disgusting behavior in the first few posts. It makes me wonder how many shill accounts exist just for this purpose, for Linux and FOSS articles a lot of the time sock puppets are the first to post and are usually OT and/or trolls.

The message is what matters, and in this matter I support what RMS has said.

Most people of high intelligence are also a bit eccentric somewhere in their lives. It's when they're very smart but poor we call them crazy.

âoeThe worst thing you can call someone is crazy, itâ(TM)s dismissive.â
- Dave Chappelle from inside the actors studio

Calling RMS crazy is a little bit like calling Hawking disgusting because he isn't sexually attractive to most and lacks something because of the way he delivers his speeches.

More and more people are driven today to admire the rich, pretty looking, but stupid vs. the eccentric ones with the wisdom and intelligence. It's like high school all over again.

IMO, Ubuntu is headed in the wrong direction. While they had or have money from Shuttleworth and/or others, they should buy up some companies selling proprietary software and liberate it by making it FOSS, in areas where Linux is weak, one example of something lacking is a good video editor, and I've tried them all, they all feel like shit and some crash often. There are many other proprietary programs of different function(s) which they could benefit from by buying and liberating. But instead they've gone the way of Unity and now this so-called spyware issue.

Thankfully Distrowatch points us to many other choices, Mint being one of them, for those of us who have had enough of these changes in Ubuntu while feeling the developers, or those who micro manage them are out of touch.

So goodbye, Ubuntu. I'll miss you. Maybe we'll see another rich individual put their money behind a distro and launch some real advertising in the media to awaken the sleeping Windows users.

OT:

U.N. report reveals secret law enforcement techniques

        "Point 201: Mentions a new covert communications technique using software defined high frequency radio receivers routed through the computer creating no logs, using no central server and extremely difficult for law enforcement to intercept."

http://www.unodc.org/documents/frontpage/Use_of_Internet_for_Terrorist_Purposes.pdf [unodc.org]

http://www.hacker10.com/other-computing/u-n-report-reveals-secret-law-enforcement-techniques/ [hacker10.com]

Re:Goodbye, Ubuntu. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237109)

It's funny that you'd site a coke-head and a biggot to try to prove your point about being dismissive of people, then refer to anyone who disagrees with RMS as an obvious shill/troll.

It's funny because Mel Gibson the man really did ruin Mel Gibson the Actor, and it has nothing to do with people "going after him". People didn't make up that he went on an anti-semitic tirade after being pulled over for drunk driving. They also never said he was a bad actor, just that in the future they don't want to work with a person like that. If you notice no one is doubting the things that RMS says as far as whether the Amazon search is in there, but plenty of people disagree about whether his opinion that most things people like should be wiped off the face of the earth should be put up on a pedestal.

Ad Hominem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237163)

I like how, in the previous RMS post to Slashdot, people were attacking him, even pointing out some disgusting behavior in the first few posts.

It's called an ad hominem attack.

It makes me wonder how many shill accounts exist just for this purpose, for Linux and FOSS articles a lot of the time sock puppets are the first to post and are usually OT and/or trolls.

Yep, that's how to do it.

Canonical doesn't get it! And that's the problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236857)

I'm certainly somewhere in the middle and while I'm not going to say RMS is right about everything he has done more for us than anybody else. Canonical, Linus, and others are more or less in the way. The humorous part is Linus and various others are bitching about the SAME DAMM THINGS! Ok. So now we have Canonical doing something awful. It's not exactly Microsoft although it doesn't matter that much either. The reason is Canonical doesn't get free software and they have merely done a better job PR wise than Linsire, Novell, and some others. Canonical isn't going to make it. Not because they don't get free software (although that is part of the problem as to why they won't make it) but because they don't have a business model!

Canonical could have been successful with the desktop although they failed to develop the sales channels which would have made it a success and then went off in another direction entirely (servers, tablets, phones, enterprise support, etc). They needed to start small and develop an Ubuntu Software Center for hardware. Doing this alongside the software would have made them financially successful. What mark didn't understand when he asked the community about building a freedom friendly laptop was the community wasn't in a position to understand the benefits. It didn't matter though. The hardware needs to be freedom friendly if your going to target the masses even if your users don't understand what they are getting from it. Ultimately Ubuntu could have had a store with well supported hardware offering and something along the lines of Apple (except the exact opposite in some ways).

Humorously ThinkPenguin is basically going to eat Canonical's bread and butter. The difference is ThinkPenguin's funding the distributions rather than developing one itself. But they get that the hardware needs to be freedom friendly in order to support the masses.

Siding with RMS on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236901)

Usually I find RMS to be far too out in left field for my taste, but I have to agree with him on this one. Ubuntu's move was bad for their users, they have refused to listen to feedback and both the EFF and RMS have correctly called them out for bad behaviour. Mark Shuttleworth going off about how "we already have root" didn't exactly help Canonical's position. Now another Ubuntu developer is screaming "FUD" and whining about how people are calling them out for spying on their users. Really, they just seem to be trying to dig a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.

PETA:animals rights :: RMS:privacy (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236913)

Both can be annoying and counter-productive when pushed to extremes. Yet, it's not necessarily bad to have them in the world.

QA (1)

RedHackTea (2779623) | about 2 years ago | (#42236931)

When it comes to Ubuntu and most FOSS, we are the QA, and in my opinion, the QA is very important. It doesn't mean that you should listen to every wisecrack out there, but RMS has a valid opinion here. While I won't admit that it is spyware, it is spyware-like. For the average non-techie user, are they going to know how to uninstall the automatic amazon searches? I bet not. Their search data will be collected. It could possibly slow down searching on the computer (as it will search both their filesystem and amazon; they probably don't know how to use "find" or "grep" appropriately in the terminal). There is no option to opt out of it when installing the OS or an easy way to uninstall it. If you read the definition of Spyware [wikipedia.org] it keeps sounding more and more similar. This isn't FUD. Take your head out of your ass for a minute and actually listen to the community that uses your distro.

understand (1)

101percent (589072) | about 2 years ago | (#42236935)

What I still don't understand is why Ubuntu/Canonical wants to invest in this (dash) "experience" when, if you hold them to their stated goal, there are tons of other worthwhile efforts to engage in that need help. Why not leave the "find things that are interesting and relevant to you" to the billion-plus profit companies who have been doing this for over a decade online. When it is an OS vendors job to innovate in this area, unless they are talking out of the side of their mouths? One can only logically conclude they are doing this as a source of revenue, which is totally fine, however this apology is just another instance in which they say one thing and do another thing.

Typical Canonical/PR bullshit. (4, Insightful)

c0l0 (826165) | about 2 years ago | (#42236939)

It's not that I would expect anything else from someone who is a "community manager" (FOSS' modern-day equivalent to the appendix, in my opinion), but this "personal blog entry" is, of course, a steaming turd. I don't see RMS spreading FUD about Ubuntu, not at all. In fact, he makes it quite clear what they get, in his opinion at least, wrong, and why he sees it that way - and he leaves nothing about that "in doubt" or, in one way or anther, vague. Discrediting this kind of honest and up-front criticism as FUD, whilst he himself is weasling around the true motives (turn desktop users into dollar bills for Canonical's pockets) for the Amazon integration with all that hey-everybody-let's-disregard-that-and-feel-good sidetracking that's going on in that posting really makes me nauseous. "Better user experience", "creating desirable products", yaddah yaddah - yeah, fine and dandy, but trying to sell us this (in my opionion pretty crazy) add-on, that submits all the text I enter - be it to start a new program or open a document I stored - to a web service the users absolutely don't control, as an improvement for the good of the general public is not only ridiculous, but also demeaning to the intelligence of everyone who they expect to fall for the kind of "argument" Jono Bacon is trying to make on his blog. It's the FOSS-equivalent to the Ask.com toolbar, or Bonzy Buddy "form filling" browser-add on from days of yore, that Windows users get shoved down their collective throats if they miss unchecking a box in popular "freeware" installation wizards these days, and everyone with half a brain can see right through that.

The response is obvious (1)

water-and-sewer (612923) | about 2 years ago | (#42236959)

Former Ubuntu users to Ubuntu's community manager: "We former-users of your once-good distribution now think it sucks."

Let's see if they understand *that.*

Know what I want? (1)

stevez67 (2374822) | about 2 years ago | (#42236961)

The tin foil hat concession in the room when these people rant about privacy. You should realize they're all in their own little tizzy because they can't stand being out of the limelight and for the sake of income. No drama = no $$.

And children are often (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42236995)

...known for their keen method of pointing out things that have become invisible to adults.

Ubuntu have lost their way (4, Insightful)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | about 2 years ago | (#42237017)

First they totally ignore user wishes by foisting Unity on previously happy Ubuntu users, with a "for your own good" attitude. Thank goodness there is Linux Mint is all I can say about the desktop nonsense.

Now Ubuntu are integrating privacy-destroying searches. Then they have the temerity to criticize the guy who inspired the ecosystem they depend on (and profit from), when he points out that what is good for Canonical is not good for the privacy of their users.

What a tragedy. Ubuntu's focus on ease of use was such a great leap forward for Linux usability. Now they've lost the plot and forgot about their constituency, instead trying to drive more and more revenue with things the user's don't actually want.

It used to be, "In order for Microsoft to 'win', the customer must lose". You could extend that to "In order for Canonical to win, the customer must lose". You could then generalize that (as RMS does) to "In order for $COMPANY to win, the customer must lose". There are still some companies around that actually care about their employees and users (not just paying lip service to it), but that number is clearly decreasing. RMS is right to call them out for ignoring user desire for privacy (privacy should be the default, with effort to opt-in).

Jono has what seems a reasonable post. He never addresses RMS' assertion not that searches go to Amazon, but that your files and folders that are also searched also have metadata submitted to Canonical (and then presumably, portions go to Amazon). Jono never dismisses this citing stuff about "personal preference" instead. It would be nice if Canonical came out with a statement saying that they don't transfer information from your searched files and folders to Amazon, because they haven't yet (at least not in my reading of Jono's post). Until Canonical prove otherwise it appear that RMS is completely right in this issue.

Re:Ubuntu have lost their way (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237197)

I guess they just marked their #1 bug as "Wontfix"

Wasn't it a child (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237085)

That pointed out that the emperor had no clothes?

Childish? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237107)

The man is a fundamental loon. No different than a religious zealot. He's a wart on the ass of computing and he's giving the field a bad name.

Stop Encouraging Him (0, Troll)

FyberOptic (813904) | about 2 years ago | (#42237117)

Richard Stallman has been childish since the day Symbolics told him he couldn't have their source code anymore, to which he set out on an infantile mission of revenge by cloning their software to a tee to give away for free (which today would put him in a lot of trouble), not to mention threatened to blow up their building (which would get you into a whole different kind of trouble in post-911 America). These days, he simply revises the GPL whenever a company (like Tivo) sends him into one of his rages.

Can the tech media please stop posting RMS stories? Like with any other child acting out, you're only encouraging him.

Milking it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237145)

Wow, /. is really getting some mileage out of this non-story. Too bad I have adblock+ installed to block any potential commercial value /. gets from perpetuating the contraversy.

RMS Sitting on a Pointy Pedestal, Exposing Sinners (1, Insightful)

reallocate (142797) | about 2 years ago | (#42237183)

Stallman is very much more concerned with how his software is made than what it can do. That's an attitude that's the mirror image of pretty much the rest of the human race. He has constructed an elitist pedestal of pseudo-morailty around software development and placed himself on top of it. Free software has obvious advantages in terms of spreading technique, etc., but Stallman's trashings of anyone who does not adhere to his gospel is demagoguery at its finest.

I'm much more offended by the clutter and annoyance of Ubuntu's lens feature than I am by the supposed offense of the product's becoming one of millions of Amazon Associates. Ubuntu is trying to make a bit of cash, and that seems to offend a lot of people much more than any perceived violation of the Stallman Code.

Does it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42237213)

UCM's post seems a bit sinister to me.

RMS raises some valid questions about current Canonical policy and they reply with name calling.

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