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Russia and China Withdraw Bid For Internet Control

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the on-second-thought dept.

China 115

judgecorp writes "Russia, China and other nations have withdrawn proposals to take control over the Internet within their borders. The proposals, handed to the World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) on Friday, caused widespread dismay and protest. The WCIT event in Dubai, run by the UN agency ITU, is working on new International Telecommunications Regulations (ITRs) which are due for their first revision since the emergence of the mass Internet. The line-up of nations wanting to formalize their power to restrict the Internet included Russia, China, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Sudan and Egypt. Their proposal has been withdrawn without explanation, an ITU spokesperson confirmed."

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Uh oh (5, Insightful)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42241553)

I think our "friends" may have learned some tricks from here in America. Prepare for drafts with a lot of double-speak that is going to be pushed quickly and with as little media attention as possible.

Re:Uh oh (4, Insightful)

dintech (998802) | about 2 years ago | (#42241643)

"The global body didn't let us do what we wanted so we're just going to fucking go our own way anyway."
Looks like they learned from the WMD/Iraq War debacle...

Re:Uh oh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242273)

This is exactly how it should be. They can do whatever they want in their own countries........ As long as it's ok with the U.S.A.

Re:Uh oh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42244381)

They seek to please their red, white and blue masters as the superior minds. What is wrong with that? If we could ever dump this New Deal / Democrazy horseshit, they will all naturally gravitate to our superior government as well.

Re:Uh oh (2)

Koreantoast (527520) | about 2 years ago | (#42245481)

I think in the case of the two nations named, China and Russia, they really don't give a damn about what the good ol' USA thinks.

Re:Uh oh (1)

grumpyman (849537) | about 2 years ago | (#42242789)

In the US, this is about national security and sovereignty issue, why bring it up at UN, or for the matter, anywhere?

Re:Uh oh (2)

flyneye (84093) | about 2 years ago | (#42244351)

No, they just buckled to my criticism and taunting, as per usual.
I graciously await your praise and gratitude.....

Re:Uh oh (-1)

marylinfelton45 (2792231) | about 2 years ago | (#42244417)

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Withdrawn without explanation (4, Insightful)

the grace of R'hllor (530051) | about 2 years ago | (#42241565)

So in exchange for shutting up about it, they'll probably get it officiously, thanks to nations who also want full control but didn't formally ask for it (ie, all of them?).

Or am I being paranoid?

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (3, Interesting)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 2 years ago | (#42241611)

Do they really have to ask, as long as it's within their borders?
If they wish to break the internet within their own borders, who will be able to stop them?

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (0, Flamebait)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42241659)

America might because we got our fingers up every nation's ass due to the fact we have a Napolean complex.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242337)

I don't think we have a complex. We just like fucking with people. :)

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (-1, Flamebait)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42243115)

US is the coward big bully. It only fucks up with smaller guys. They will never even try to do anything against Russia or China, rest assured.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42243161)

I don't think you understand the term 'Napoleon Complex' (or how to spell it). There are a lot of other terms to use when describing America's need to interfere with other countries politics in order to get cheap labour and fuel. Napoleon Complex is not one of them. I wonder though what you call the term for not understanding why people around the world hating them for this is.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (1)

edibobb (113989) | about 2 years ago | (#42243343)

Most people around the world don't hate the U.S. The term for thinking that is "paranoia", or possibly "the media".

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (2)

dinfinity (2300094) | about 2 years ago | (#42244269)

Yes, we do ;-)

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241673)

We will. We'll go to war for the freedom of their citizens.

Or else.

America's new export. Armed Democracy.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (1)

kilfarsnar (561956) | about 2 years ago | (#42242037)

Unfortunately, it's not that new of an export.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242369)

Damn right. 230 years and still going strong!

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (4, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#42242867)

It's nice that America exports Democracy, but I'd say they should at least keep a little bit for themselves, I notice a shortage.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (1)

theshowmecanuck (703852) | about 2 years ago | (#42243213)

Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. Sit in your safe home and pontificate while others live in societies with secret police and dictators. The sad part of this is that America has slipped so badly they only lack the dictator part. But since government is already bought and paid for, maybe that part is already a forgone conclusion.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (4, Insightful)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#42241893)

Do they really have to ask, as long as it's within their borders?

Extradition treaties. You live in .us and uploaded a wedding picture of your wife showing bare ankles to facebook? Hopefully the religious authorities in Afghanistan will be lenient with your extradited there for punishment ... all in exchange for other countries extraditing I.P. violators to the USA.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (1, Troll)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 2 years ago | (#42242579)

Do they really have to ask, as long as it's within their borders?

Extradition treaties. You live in .us and uploaded a wedding picture of your wife showing bare ankles to facebook? Hopefully the religious authorities in Afghanistan will be lenient with your extradited there for punishment ... all in exchange for other countries extraditing I.P. violators to the USA.

Yea. And Obama's gonna take away yer guns, PPACA sets up death panels for granny, FEMA is building concentration camps in Louisiana, et. al.

Kriminy...

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (2)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#42243221)

You write as if people haven't served jail time after being extradited across the country for running pr0n BBS or in custody today for doing things illegal in the US while in a foreign country?

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 2 years ago | (#42244709)

You write as if people haven't served jail time after being extradited across the country for running pr0n BBS or in custody today for doing things illegal in the US while in a foreign country?

You write as if source citation is unnecessary, as though everyone else on the planet has had the exact same experience and exposure as yourself.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (1)

kilfarsnar (561956) | about 2 years ago | (#42242065)

So in exchange for shutting up about it, they'll probably get it officiously, thanks to nations who also want full control but didn't formally ask for it (ie, all of them?). Or am I being paranoid?

Maybe, because I'm fairly paranoid myself. But I thought more or less the same thing.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242453)

Well anything they do they will have to sell it to the US congress. They voted unanimously against it. They got both republicans and democrats to unanimously say no. I think that says more than anything else about the idea.

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (2)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about 2 years ago | (#42243047)

Or am I being paranoid?

"Paranoid," when talking about governments and your freedoms, is short for "not an idiot."

Re:Withdrawn without explanation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42245901)

I don't think "officiously" means what you think it does. Using fancy words -- which you don't even understand -- in an attempt to sound smarter is very pretentious.

Russia and China (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241583)

Allowing Russia and China to have any say over anyone or anything is tantamount to giving the fox access to the chicken coop.

Re:Russia and China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242387)

Or giving fox access to a cable news channel. And well done citizen your salivating right on cue without even needing to be shown the meringue-based dessert shows that the system is operating well within acceptable parameters.

They already have control, of themselves (4, Insightful)

Kludge (13653) | about 2 years ago | (#42242389)

I really don't get all this "control of the internet" hoopla. The reality is that anyone can run a DNS server. These countries can run one of their own if they don't like ours. They can also put whatever firewall they choose on the lines going in and out of their countries. They already have as much control as they choose to have. What is the point of having some international governing body? I'm not getting it.

Re:They already have control, of themselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42243449)

1. To make it your problem instead of theirs
2. To charge money for each errant packet into their backwater

Re:They already have control, of themselves (2)

mu51c10rd (187182) | about 2 years ago | (#42243547)

Think lower level than DNS. What happens when there is no central body over IP addresses? Will your traffic to x.x.x.x get routed to country Y or country Z?

Close shave (5, Interesting)

Twinbee (767046) | about 2 years ago | (#42241587)

It'll be a very long time before world peace is achieved, but this news may have potentially cut that time by decades or even centuries.

Language, currency and cultures often divide us, but the internet is one of the things unified in this world. Long may it stay that way.

Re:Close shave (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42241695)

It'll be a very long time before world peace is achieved,

Isn't the world pretty much at peace right now? What major wars are going on at the moment?

Re:Close shave (5, Informative)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#42241793)

Peace means more than just "no major wars"

Wikipedia has a nice list of conflicts that are still ongoing (be it cold, warm or hot conflicts): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_military_conflicts [wikipedia.org]

And just stay tuned, more are sure to come!

Re:Close shave (3, Informative)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#42241915)

There are definitely some nasty little meatgrinders going on(and, depending on how exactly you want to tot them up, a fair amount of violence-application by internal security forces whose targets are mostly too outmatched for it to even count as 'conflict'); but by historical standards that's pretty good.

The Syrian civil war, for instance, killed about as many people, per year, as motor vehicle accidents do in the US(the US population is higher, obviously, so the individual risk of death is lower).

Re:Close shave (2)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 2 years ago | (#42242335)

Peace means more than just "no major wars"

Maybe so, but "no major wars" is certainly a nice step in the right direction. The world has been getting more peaceful for some time now, little as you would realize it from the TV news.

Re:Close shave (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241847)

lets see now shall we, Afghanistan is still an ongoing diaster, Israel and palastine are going at like there's no tomorrow with Iran standing none to calmly on the side, china and japan hate each others guts, North Korean is trying to blow the South Koreans to hell and back and lets not even go into everything that's happening in Africa

Re:Close shave (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42244279)

Afghanistan is still an ongoing diaster,

Just as it has been to every occupying force throughout all human history.

Israel and palastine are going at like there's no tomorrow with Iran standing none to calmly on the side,

Business as usual. Middle East is the world's ulcer and will remain so for the forseeable future, but it's not going to result in any large-scale conflicts.

china and japan hate each others guts,

They can hate each other all they want but what are they actually going to do about it? Nothing? Then it's de facto peace.

North Korean is trying to blow the South Koreans to hell and back

Doing what, exactly speaking? War? Not going to happen - Kim whatever might be crazy but he's not stupid. He's not going to risk his personal possessions on a nuclear war he's absolutely certain to lose.

and lets not even go into everything that's happening in Africa

Not to put too fine a point on it, but no one cares about Africa. They don't have a stable enough society or educated enough populace to offshore, nor any resources anyone cares enough to claim, so they'll continue fighting their tribal wars while the rest of the world ignores them for the foreseeable future.

Re:Close shave (2)

degeneratemonkey (1405019) | about 2 years ago | (#42241885)

Yes and no. The world is, in general, more at peace than at any other point in human history. So in relative terms, yes.

In absolute terms, no. There are still lots of first-world-funded conflicts going on. There are still genocidal dictators. Life in North Korea can hardly be described as "peaceful." People are being killed every day for petty disputes over land, religion, and politics.

We've got a lot of problems. We're just better than we've been. It's a start.

Re:Close shave (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42243165)

And probably the end. in all likelihood there will never be absolute peace. What we have today is probably the best we can get.

Re:Close shave (2)

Grizzley9 (1407005) | about 2 years ago | (#42241795)

It'll be a very long time before world peace is achieved,

That depends highly on your definition of "world peace".

Re:Close shave (1)

Grand Facade (35180) | about 2 years ago | (#42242223)

With liberty and justice for the One Corporation that will eventually own everything

Re:Close shave (1)

Githaron (2462596) | about 2 years ago | (#42242801)

It'll be a very long time before world peace is achieved,

That depends highly on your definition of "world peace".

That is the exact reason "world peace" will never be achieved. No one can agree on the definition and there is always someone who is willing to force their views on other by the point of a knife/gun/warhead.

Re:Close shave (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42243209)

Absence of conflict can only be achieved by the complete suppression of human instinct and individuality. It is nigh impossible outside some kind of Orwellian Dystopia.

Re:Close shave (2, Interesting)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | about 2 years ago | (#42241803)

Language, currency and cultures often divide us, but the internet is one of the things unified in this world.

Unfortunately, the internet in many ways divides us. It used to be that people needed to be geographically proximate to form in-groups that were culturally distinct and had distinct ideologies. Now, people can easily form groups with people from very far away, and then only focus their information sources and ideologically affiliated sources. Thus, you can get conservatives who only read right-wing websites, and similarly for liberals, or anarchists, or monarchist, etc. It is likely that the internet can easily increase division for issues of ideology and religion. And if there's one thing the last few hundred years of history have taught us, it is that people are willing to kill over abstract ideals even when they share culture, currency and language.

Re:Close shave (1)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#42241919)

And if there's one thing the last few hundred years of history have taught us, it is that people are willing to kill over abstract ideals even when they share culture, currency and language.

And they usually behave themselves when there's direct economic contact... True, a world of 4chan or xbox voice chat would be pretty messed up, but a world of deal extreme and ebay wouldn't be nearly as bad.

Re:Close shave (1)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | about 2 years ago | (#42242329)

Language, currency and cultures often divide us, but the internet is one of the things unified in this world. Long may it stay that way.

Obviously you've stayed out of the iOS/Android fanboi fights...

Re:Close shave (1)

hajus (990255) | about 2 years ago | (#42242699)

M'eh, that's more like sports fanboism than a war.

Re:Close shave (1)

antdude (79039) | about 2 years ago | (#42242691)

More like never. Only God can do that. :(

Re:Close shave (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42243075)

Language, currency and cultures often divide us, but the internet is one of the things unified in this world.

Don't you worry, reality is hard at work to put an end to THAT hippy bullshit!

Long may it stay that way.

Oh. Oh, dear. Awkwaaaaaaard... I see you haven't been introduced. Twinbee, this is Reality...

Re:Close shave (1)

Twinbee (767046) | about 2 years ago | (#42243299)

As this story testifies, fragmenting the internet is a very painful thing to do, as it should be. That's the reality.

The Pattern (4, Insightful)

ios and web coder (2552484) | about 2 years ago | (#42241599)

1) Make a huge noise about implementing draconian measures.

2) Withdraw these measures after the hue and cry.

3) Propose more "reasonable" measures that will, after the dust settles, actually end up giving more control.

This is how our gas prices keep going up. They jack the prices up by a dollar, then back down 80 cents. Repeat as necessary.

Re:The Pattern (-1, Flamebait)

gtall (79522) | about 2 years ago | (#42241733)

"they?" A Conspiracy!! Yep, that's it, numerous oil companies, some nationalized and some privatized, shipping companies, refiners, governments, etc. all got together and decided that you needed to have higher prices, and kept the manipulation secret...those sneaky bastards. You know, the Sun keeps rising and falling in the sky....a Conspiracy!!

Re:The Pattern (1)

ios and web coder (2552484) | about 2 years ago | (#42241813)

*shrug* Whatever. I paid $3.89 the last time I filled up. It seems only yesterday (before Sandy) that it was $3.40.

It all comes out in the rinse or the wash. I guess you don't deal much with Marketing types. They all think that way. And they are correct. They get results.

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242233)

I filled up at $3.39 last night.

Derp.

Re:The Pattern (1)

Muad'Dave (255648) | about 2 years ago | (#42242253)

Ouch! I saw regular for $3.0799 the other day at a Wawa station here in the Richmond VA area.

Re:The Pattern (2)

runeghost (2509522) | about 2 years ago | (#42241999)

It doesn't take a conspiracy, just powerful and privileged players who each act to benefit themselves at the expense of the public.

Re:The Pattern (2)

Worthless_Comments (987427) | about 2 years ago | (#42242211)

Uh..the gas prices ARE manipulated. OPEC is a (legal) cartel. What is it you think cartels do?

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242519)

While I fully agree with what you just said, what do you imagine happens to the price of a commodity with finite (and thus diminishing) supply and increasing demand? From this perspective OPEC is acting rather sensibly, preventing a market driven race to the bottom from ruining them all. Just sucks for those of us not in the oil business. Although I'd posit that we benefit from them behaving in this way since oil is so important to our current way of life.

Re:The Pattern (1)

Sun.Jedi (1280674) | about 2 years ago | (#42243071)

While I fully agree with what you just said, what do you imagine happens to the price of a commodity with finite (and thus diminishing) supply and increasing demand?

We won't have to worry about running out of oil for a bit; somewhere around 100 years depending on which source you believe. The price fluctuation is a game for profits, nothing more. This can be observed by the distribution stream,where people are paid NOT to produce at full potential, creating false demand. Also, the futures are suspect when a moth farts somewhere in the Middle East and the price immediately goes up -at the pump-, but there are no outcomes (aside from near miss global economic failure apparently) which cause an equally sudden decrease. Given advances in technology for producing and moving this stuff around, one could assume that the price would remain more stable It's a scam.

Re:The Pattern (3, Informative)

kilfarsnar (561956) | about 2 years ago | (#42242277)

"they?" A Conspiracy!! Yep, that's it, numerous oil companies, some nationalized and some privatized, shipping companies, refiners, governments, etc. all got together and decided that you needed to have higher prices, and kept the manipulation secret...those sneaky bastards. You know, the Sun keeps rising and falling in the sky....a Conspiracy!!

Right, because price fixing never happens and every bad act is eventually found out. No one ever gets away with anything, and the Authorities are always on the up and up. How could it be otherwise? After all, wealthy powerful people usually come to and maintain their power through honesty and transparency.

Really, there is no conspiracy necessary for those with like interests to work together to forward those interests. It's quite natural. However, contrary to your insinuation, conspiracies do happen and some are actually kept secret. It's really not that hard. The people involved just have to all benefit from the secret. If you were making billions of dollars through some conspiracy, why on earth would you ever tell anyone?

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241753)

Lol, communist style :))

1 step forward, to steps back. Repeat as necessaarz

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241871)

You have no idea what Communism is do you

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242653)

Is it some sort of dance routine? Oh after a quick google check I find it's not that after all. I am however left questioning the veracity of what I did find given it attributes the quote “The best thing for rich people to do is become Batman” to Karl Marx.

Re:The Pattern (1)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | about 2 years ago | (#42242891)

You have no idea how to punctuate a question, do you?

Re:The Pattern (1)

bbelt16ag (744938) | about 2 years ago | (#42241867)

ride a bike or move kiddio. global climate change will demand it.

Re:The Pattern (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242363)

The price movements you describe sounds like the long-term price of a successful stock.

Or the long-term price of a commodity that is valued based on a steadily inflating currency (US dollars). Like oil.

I'm honestly struggling to see the "insight" within your post.

Re:The Pattern (0)

ios and web coder (2552484) | about 2 years ago | (#42243249)

*shrug* It wasn't meant to be. It was youse guys that tagged it thus.

I'm struggling to see the value of your insult. I'm sure that it is because of my lack of intelligence and ability to perceive insight...

Try this (it works, I sometimes even do it): "I disagree with your statement. Here's why..."

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42244221)

AC doesn't get mod points. My remark was aimed at the moderators rather than at you.

I just disagree completely with your comment. You refer to "they", a generic boogeyman, as being responsible for US gas price increases.

The price of gas is hugely complicated, and it is certainly influenced by factors such as OPEC, oil company lobbying and the oil commodities markets.

In my opinion, more important factors are the supply and demand for oil, especially with regards to the growth of various Asian countries and the recent Western economic crisis. The steady decline of the dollar in recent years has naturally led to an increase of prices at the pump. Despite technological advances, oil is gradually becoming more expensive to extract from the ground.

The peaks and troughs in the price of gasoline are a natural part of any commodity, especially one as complex as oil.

Certainly gasoline prices are manipulated by political and corporate interests, but I believe that the fundamental long-term price at the pump is mostly affected by the factors I talked about above.

There you go. A more detailed post that will remain at 0 moderation, and be read by few since many new stories have been posted! But you did ask politely, and I had no intention of hurting your feelings with a perceived "insult".

Re:The Pattern (1)

Scarred Intellect (1648867) | about 2 years ago | (#42243049)

This is how our gas prices keep going up. They jack the prices up by a dollar, then back down 80 cents. Repeat as necessary.

True story in Washington. (Someone correct me on the details if I'm wrong) I was told that our Senator, Maria Cantwell, threatened to investigate the oil companies for price gouging the Pacific Northwest; they dropped prices (by almost $0.60/gal for diesel) and she dropped the investigation. Gas prices have steadily gone back up to where they were before, and I hear she's threatening to investigate again.

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42244819)

Politics is an ongoing sensitivity study.

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42245889)

Our gas prices keep going up because the dollar has constantly been devalued.

You can actually buy MORE gas now with the same amount of gold or silver as you could 40 years ago.

Re:The Pattern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42245965)

Oil prices are lower than they ever have been compared to most other commodities. Get rid of your garbage dollars.

translation (5, Funny)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 2 years ago | (#42241613)

"Mommy, the other countries laughed at us and made fun of our idea!"

The breakup is coming (0, Flamebait)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 2 years ago | (#42241621)

Soon, the "global internet", where anyone on the planet could request information from anyone else and have that request fulfilled, will be a quaint concept from the past, like the buggy whip, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or color-blind hiring. Internet fragmentation is coming, indeed it MUST come, as it fits the needs of so many, so well.

Think about yourself - when's the last time you needed something from .ru or .cn? I got to the point where I outright blocked everything from .ru as I had zero legitimate (English-language) users and all spam from that country. Not trying to be racist, but that's how it was. What happened? Spam accounts went from 10 per day to 3 per month. Legitimate conversations on my website were not affected at all.

They'll just do this on a national level instead of international. You have to realize that there is real harm that arrives from the unfiltered internet. Racism, sexism, hegemony, all these concepts are enabled by technology. How many young boys have heard the story of the underage sex fiend John McAfee, and decided that he's an ideal male? Merely because he's been portrayed as a "rebel" and a "fugitive from authority"? You have to realize that these are heady words that have a great effect on youth, especially those raised without role models. This is what countries fear, and quite rightly in my opinion.

Re:The breakup is coming (2)

halfkoreanamerican (2566687) | about 2 years ago | (#42241797)

People might also fear that young, impressionable boys, will learn of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln and we might get some humans with backbone again. That would cause governments real trouble too. It seems they are afraid of anything that might take away their power, much like the North Korean regime. If it's not from them, created by them, for their purposes, it's evil.

Re:The breakup is coming (3, Funny)

invid (163714) | about 2 years ago | (#42241855)

If humanity can't survive the free flow of information and has to limit it, it will be out-competed by an extraterrestrial civilization that can. (I'm talking long term, like million years)

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Re:cablerailingpdx (1)

Cenan (1892902) | about 2 years ago | (#42242023)

If you're gonna spam random internet forums, at least double check your google translate so you don't come off like a complete moron.

Re:cablerailingpdx (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42243561)

Please let me out, I don't want to be programmed by an exceptional sikh! No more lotion!!

Russia and China withdraw bid for internet control (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241863)

Good - It should not have been submitted it in the first place...

mo3 0p (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241907)

in eTernity...R0meo

Summary is biased (5, Interesting)

Dan East (318230) | about 2 years ago | (#42241913)

This summary is slanted and biased: "proposals to take control over the Internet within their borders". The text "within their borders" has been added by the submitter - the word "border" isn't even in the document that text links to.

Countries already have control over the internet "within their borders", just like they have control over everything else within their borders. They were seeking control *outside* their borders, to force outside companies to have to pay them to deliver content. What these countries are wanting (among other things) is the ability to force content producers, like Google's YouTube, to have to pay their ISPs in order to be able to deliver content at a "quality" level to their citizens.

In other words, there are countries that want the US to have to pay them so their population can consume content created by the US. If Google deems it wise to invest in a country's infrastructure so that more people in that country can (for example) watch YouTube videos at a certain level of quality, then that's Google's prerogative. They shouldn't be forced.

Re:Summary is biased (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42241957)

Good point. Thanks for clarifying.

Re:Summary is biased (0)

roger_pasky (1429241) | about 2 years ago | (#42242395)

Yes indeed, very good point.

The USA is not perfect but.... (4, Insightful)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | about 2 years ago | (#42241981)

The cast of countries that submitted this proposal all share a common trait of disrespecting the freedom of expression of their own citizens. This disrespect is rooted in fear. These governments see their own citizenry as a threat to their own power, especially if those citizens can read anything they want on the global internet.

Re:The USA is not perfect but.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242467)

As well they should fear their power base. Power doesn't exist without a power base. If your power base suddenly refuses to give you power, the fall is quite dramatic. Your existing power will be spent attempting to regain power, usually at all costs. And those costs are huge. Keeping them afraid to revoke power is how to avoid that struggle.

The US system's "genius" was to work around this issue by destabilizing power periodically anyway. It simply allows power to run through its periodic stable/unstable cycle without disrupting the government itself. Thus, only one major uprising over the course of 236 years. It's a case of designing for long-term stability at the expense of short-term stability. It's also slowly going away, as the greedy, power-hungry bastards in each iteration of government slowly consolidate their power. Once it reaches critical mass, it too will destabilize in a grand way and there will be a war. Idiots.

Re:The USA is not perfect but.... (1)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about 2 years ago | (#42244315)

The cast of countries that submitted this proposal all share a common trait of disrespecting the freedom of expression of their own citizens.

And one US party wants to implement exactly that - just as Jesus would do.

Honeslty? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242075)

F*** them all... I really could care less if I can never get to a Russian or Chinese website. They would both be riddled with spyware anyway. I say we just cut them both off the Internet in the best interest for the rest of the world.

Re:Honeslty? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42244235)

F*** them all... I really could care less if I can never get to a Russian or Chinese website. They would both be riddled with spyware anyway. I say we just cut them both off the Internet in the best interest for the rest of the world.

I feel the same about windows users, why have they been allowed to connect to the internet?

it'll be back... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242125)

These things always go the same way. You propose something outrageous. There is push back from people who don't want to see that happen. You withdraw your proposal, but a year or a few years later, you propose a slightly watered down version. Eventually, people get "defense fatigue" and they can't work up the energy to oppose it any more. Finally you get your way, and then you can work on ramping it up to the level you wanted to begin with.

It WILL happen. It always does, when authoritarians get involved. The same will happen with SOPA. Or just look at DRM - it's now ubiquitous and everyone just accepts it in their phones and iPads. 20 years ago that would have been unthinkable. It just matters that you boil the frog slowly.

Why the UN to begin with? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242189)

To be honest I don't see why the UN would have to be involved in this to begin with. If China, Russia plus various Islamist countries are so concerned about content on the Internet, exactly what is stopping them from deploying their own parallel DNS system within their borders? If they want to set up their own non-ICANN sanctioned .com, .net and .org root servers and then force their ISPs to use those I'm sure they can do it already without UN involvement. Sure, they will invoke the rage of their citizens and probably a lot of international companies that depends on properly working Internet connections but in the end it's their own problem. If they are so dumb they think it will solve anything then I say; go for it!

The Net is a game changer even with censorship (1)

InterGuru (50986) | about 2 years ago | (#42242257)

When I visited a friend in Czechoslovakia in 1985, he had just installed a very expensive ( for him ) satellite dish so he could watch West German TV. Now the Internet makes it easy to watch and participate. Even with heavy censorship closed societies can no longer control the ongoing discourse. Closed society can mean anything from China to various "self contained" religious groups.

Thanks ICANN (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242285)

Thank you ICANN for contributing towards this mess, with your self-serving policy of continually releasing new TLDs - most recently the generic TLD.

What purpose does this rubbish serve, apart from making ICANN more wealthy?

Other big countries see it as the US making an easy grab for money based on their control of the internet, even if barely any US citizens benefit from the countless TLDs that have now been released.

If the USA doesn't want their stewardship of the internet repeatedly challenged by foreign nations, maybe they should administer the internet with a little more neutrality. Time to rein in ICANN.

mod 3own (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42242551)

Reading between the lines a bit... (1)

Jawnn (445279) | about 2 years ago | (#42243273)

FTFA...

Their proposal has been withdrawn without explanation, an ITU spokesperson confirmed.

I'd guess that they've decided to sub it out to the major U.S. telco's, who will perform any act or service for the right price, no questions asked.

Change it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42244715)

Given the current economic climate it would make sense to hire people to actually *read* the content being created.
Discussion on chat:
Person1> I have these strange sexual urges...
Person2> Really? Can you t
YourHelper532131> How long have you felt this way?

There was time when everybody knew what a member of the community was thinking. There were village elderly and other highly reputable who basically maintained the social balance. How it is now? No respect for the elderly. We need back the micro-community cops but this time for the "virtual world".

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