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Call for Questions: Rasterman, Founder of the Enlightenment Project

Unknown Lamer posted about a year and a half ago | from the spiff-up-your-computer dept.

Enlightenment 124

Since before all other interfaces, Enlightenment has been making computers look and feel like they're from the future. On December 21, the decade long effort to rewrite Enlightenment will see the first officially stable release. With e17 a few days away, project founder and master of X11 graphics hacking Carsten Haitzler (the Rasterman) has agreed to answer your questions. Ask as many questions as you like, but only one per post please.

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124 comments

What keeps you motivated (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42315889)

What keeps you motivated? You had a long release cycle, a few dubious quality releases, all the while an abysmally small fraction of linux machines actually run your software.

Who cares? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42315903)

Enlightenment is always "about" to achieve something great but it never quite manages to actually do it. Why should I care about a point release of a WM that will probably be obsolete by the time its finished?

Re:Who cares? (1)

tgd (2822) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316027)

I thought it was pretty damn cool ... back in 1998.

Its interesting there's still cycles being spent on it. Good for them.

Re:Who cares? (3, Informative)

SourceFrog (627014) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316157)

Enlightenment was way ahead of almost anything else for quite a long time ... back in the 90's it was exceptional ... many of the desktops based on it were beautiful, works of art, better than most desktops of today from any OS. That was a time when Apple was something everyone called "dead" and the best from MS was that kludgy Win95 thing ... Enlightenment seemed to me like something that should have made a much bigger impact than it did, I'm not sure if it's because it seemed to permanently stay in alpha or something.

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316329)

Enlightenment seemed to me like something that should have made a much bigger impact than it did, I'm not sure if it's because it seemed to permanently stay in alpha or something.

It made so little impact because it was on Linux.

E! was magnificent. It was speedy, it was beautiful - it's beauty has yet to be surpassed over a decade later - and made my RedHat system seem like it was from the far distant future. It was sensible, and it simply worked.

The problem was, it was revolutionizing the desktop experience for an operating system that nobody outside of IT or academia had even heard of. This was an age where Linux was still using LILO; where Apple had been eulogized and buried; and Microsoft had effectively no competition in the desktop arena.

Godspeed, Rasterman. Microsoft is on its way out, OS X is a jumble of the worst concepts imaginable, and Linux is in serious danger of being a household name

Now's the time to deliver us from evil! (Or at least, deliver us from ugly desktops!)

Re:Who cares? (2)

rmstar (114746) | about a year and a half ago | (#42319029)

E! was magnificent. It was speedy, it was beautiful - it's beauty has yet to be surpassed over a decade later - and made my RedHat system seem like it was from the far distant future. It was sensible, and it simply worked.

I never got it to work sensibly. And, yes, it looked like the distant future, but out of a cheesy eighties movie.

Like this: http://www.erat.org/files/bluesteel/screenshot.jpg [erat.org]

Perhaps what sank it was that it promoted ricer aesthetics [freewebs.com] .

Re:Who cares? (1)

benjfowler (239527) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316413)

Given that E's niche was on the bleeding edge anyway, it's a mystery to me why they felt the need to wait until everything was ready to do a release, and then pushing everything out in one fell swoop. You wait that long, the technical ground beneath your feet keeps changing, that you're constantly rewriting code just to keep up (a bit like painting the Golden Gate Bridge -- by the time they're done painting the bridge, it's time to start again from the beginning).

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317463)

The difference is that it was primarily for Linux. Sad but true, the desktop numbers for Linux are not as good as Windows Phone's.

The people who installed an alternate, alternate (KDE/Gnome) window manager for linux has got to be a short list relative to the people with unpatched WinXP/IE6 Installs.

Re:Who cares? (1)

smash (1351) | about a year and a half ago | (#42320899)

Problem is, "pretty" doesn't make a usable desktop for getting work done.

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317631)

Almost no-one really spends any cycles on it... except Samsung. Somehow Raster managed to convince them that EFL is the mobile toolkit of the future. Go figure.

Re:Who cares? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316525)

Aha, the tired old slashdot "who cares" post. A surefire way to get modded up to +5 without adding anything of actual value to the discussion!

Mod him up, 15-year-olds, mod him up!

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317233)

Indeed. These people seem to be able to only generate repulsion/depression, and try to generate something from that. I've never in my entire life asked someone "why should I care" about something. If you care, you get into it. If not, why the hell do you even ask? Do you want to be told what do you have to care about, you little useless dickhead?

Re:Who cares? (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316533)

Enlightenment / EFL is the window manager widget set for Tizen. Its likely to end up in a 100m+ devices.

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317087)

That sounds incredibly optimistic for Tizen.

Re:Who cares? (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42317811)

I don't think so. By 2015 we may be looking at 1b phones / yr, a majority of them on the low end. Samsung is already a huge player in the market.... 20m units for 5 years is not even very aggressive.

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317199)

Until Tizen is scrapped and something new replaces it?

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42319925)

Actually, that should be due any day now, given previous cycles.

Re:Who cares? meow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317301)

Bitchy much, not like he killed your grandmother, and with that attitude why should he care if you care. Some have been actively using the project as a day to day desktop, without complaint or trouble, pretty much from the start. I wish you luck with your choice of WM.

Re:Who cares? (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | about a year and a half ago | (#42319133)

I used .15 and .16 for quite a long time. Both were very stable and beautiful and worked very well.

Re:Who cares? (1)

flayzernax (1060680) | about a year and a half ago | (#42319433)

I think they should have stuck with their first version and just upgraded it to run on more modern X11's rather then trying to refactor it over and over.

Culture (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42315907)

Are you really a Rasterferian or a covert Vectoritron?

Why does your website use unreadable blue text on (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42315929)

Why does your website use unreadable blue text on a gray background? Why should we trust your UI design abilities based on this?

Re:Why does your website use unreadable blue text (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316245)

My eyes - ze goggles do naathing!

Re:Why does your website use unreadable blue text (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316289)

Every now and then I check out the enlightenment.org website, because I want to see screenshots of it in action.
For some reason, I don't think there is a link /anywhere/ to the screenshots.
In case anyone else is interested, there /are/ screenshots on the website; they are here:
http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/

Re:Why does your website use unreadable blue text (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316327)

*** SPANK SPANK SPANK!!!
Enlightenment server is over capacity

Please wait a moment and try again later.
For more information, take a look at #e.fr on Freenode.

Well, that's hardly a professional error page...

Re:Why does your website use unreadable blue text (2)

Cinder6 (894572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42317369)

Unfortunately, most of those screenshots look nothing like the default install. I just installed it on my Pi to see what it looked like, as it's been years since I ran it. It looks nice, but it's hard to get a good feel for what it's really like on such a weak system.

Re:Why does your website use unreadable blue text (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42319519)

Why to see screenshots hen you can try it: http://www.bodhilinux.com/ ,and there are some screen captures by users.

Integrate Gnome-Shell philosophies to E please (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42315935)

Linux users are astonished by new Gnome 3's nice-looking UI that dramatically improves user experience by removing redundant complications from UI such as extra settings and simplifying workflow. By replacing task-bar with activitites panels, Gnome-3 succeded in providing more free user space. For future plans of Enlightenment, the steps taken by Gnome 3 is a meaningful precursor that should absolutely be followed.

Re:Integrate Gnome-Shell philosophies to E please (4, Insightful)

White Flame (1074973) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316037)

I know it's inappropriate to bring up death penalty arguments in a technical thread, but do NOT remove settings from software I use.

Re:Integrate Gnome-Shell philosophies to E please (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316347)

Die violently in a fire. You and people like you is everything wrong with software these last 5 years.

Troll Successfull! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316591)

Even though I know that you are trolling, I am compelled to respond.

You and Gnome 3 come mierda y muerte, hijo de puta!

Wow, that's quite the "write-up"... (-1, Flamebait)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about a year and a half ago | (#42315949)

Enlightenment has been making computers look and feel like they're from the future.

How does Microsoft feel about you stealing their Win8 UI? Also, do your farts smell like roses as well?

Re:Wow, that's quite the "write-up"... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316319)

Enlightenment has been making computers look and feel like they're from the future.

How does Microsoft feel about you stealing their Win8 UI? Also, do your farts smell like roses as well?

Only one question per post!!

Since the fart question was the most recently asked one, the answer is "yes".

Enlighten me? (0)

trevc (1471197) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316021)

Enlighten me please, what is Enlightenment and why would it take 10 years to rewrite??

Re:Enlighten me? (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316331)

You can enlighten yourself by googling. Of course, the question then becomes "what does Enlightenment bring that other desktops are lacking?" and "Why would having a desktop bigger than my monitor(s) be a good thing?"

Re:Enlighten me? (1)

trevc (1471197) | about a year and a half ago | (#42317929)

Would help if a summary was in the article.

10 FOOT UI (1)

future assassin (639396) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316047)

Can we get a 10 FOOT UI? After setting up my first HTPC last week I'm really surprised no one has a 10 FOOT UI desktop. Yah KDE has the Notebook Plasma but its just not good.

Re:10 FOOT UI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317143)

Why is your couch so far from the screen?

I used to need a 10 foot UI, then I moved my couch to about 5 feet in front of the projection screen. My screen size seemed to double, and everything is now crystal-clear.

Re:10 FOOT UI (1)

mikael_j (106439) | about a year and a half ago | (#42318085)

I'm going to say I don't really need a 10 foot UI but it would be nice with something a bit more like it than ordinary desktop UIs. Slightly larger widgets, text that defaults to a slightly larger size, just enough to make it easy to use from the couch. It's not that I can't see what's on the screen, it's that when I'm on the couch and I leave XBMC to check out some website or whatever I don't want to have to be as precise with the mouse as I am when I'm at my desktop machine.

Re:10 FOOT UI (1)

future assassin (639396) | about a year and a half ago | (#42318657)

I was hoping http://kylo.tv/ [kylo.tv] Kylo browser would fix the browser issue for me but its pretty flaky on my Linux Mint 14 Mate HTPC. Opera Mobile looked but but that too was crashing and just didn't feel like debugging it.

Design philosophy (4, Interesting)

Camaro (13996) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316081)

As a longtime Enlightenment user (since 0.9 I think!) I have seen a lot of changes to it's look and feel over the years. Has your design philosphy changed over time or is it more a matter of changes in technology?

I keep seeings announcements for E17... (2)

Loco3KGT (141999) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316085)

but my calendar doesn't say the April 1 yet, what gives?

In all seriousness, you've been working on e17 since you were what? 25? How did you go from "I want to make a window manager" to "Everyone is doing this horribly wrong and I'm tired of being everyone" at that age?

Re:I keep seeings announcements for E17... (1)

Progman3K (515744) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316471)

but my calendar doesn't say the April 1 yet, what gives?

No, look at the press-release carefully; it says that E will be released Dec 21st, 2012

They're just hoping the world ends before users are disappointed. That way they can go out on a high note.

File Manager (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316103)

What can you say about e17 File Manager, one of the most undervalued assets of having a GUI?

Why December 21st? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316155)

Is it to coincide with the end of the current Mayan Calendar Era to include the joke "Enlightenment won't be done before the world ends"?

The Future (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316163)

When KDE made their big transition from 3->4, most of the followup releases were on stability and minor improvements on the paradigm.

With E17, it seems that the amount of time taken was to ensure that the 'final' release of E17 would be bug free.

Assuming that E17 release is stable and solid, where do you see the enlightenment project going from here?

Tizen and EFL (5, Interesting)

pavon (30274) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316169)

Your work at Samsung involves making EFL a great library for designing touch-based interfaces for use in a future Linux-based smartphone platform, presumably Tizen. But every time I've heard about Tizen in the press Samsung has made a big deal about HTML5 being the development platform. How do these two development platforms play together? Also can you provide any information about when we can expect to see the first Tizen phones hitting the US?

Re:Tizen and EFL (1)

SendBot (29932) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316287)

Please mod this question up - I wanted to ask it also.

Usability vs beauty (4, Interesting)

vlm (69642) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316193)

Your thoughts on usability vs beauty... Must they always be opposed?

Re:Usability vs beauty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42318665)

what an odd question. for me the default answer is that usability and beauty are both at
their highest when they coincide exactly

Will you be improving the artwork? (3, Interesting)

polyp2000 (444682) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316201)

Back when i first heard about enlightenment - late 90's early 00's it was totally the best looking Window Manager / UI around.
I've just checked out some screenshots from e17 and I can help but think it looks really dated. Enlightenment used to stand out from the crowd
but now it seems to lag behind in this department.

What will you be doing to ensure that the new Enlightenment will once again showcase how slick and awesome a Desktop UI can look?

N.

Re:Will you be improving the artwork? (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316495)

Enlightenment was always best when used with a user-developed theme -- E was the ultimate theme-able WM before themes were really a "thing". The "default" themes were best considered examples of what you could do.

So assuming E17 didn't ditch the #1 best part of E, then the answer is -- as soon as someone makes a theme for it that matches your aesthetic sensibilities.

Re:Will you be improving the artwork? (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | about a year and a half ago | (#42319195)

Agreed completely. I had a half dozen themes I really loved in DR15/16 back when e.themes.org existed that made my desktop look incredible.

Also, Eterm.

Wayland? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316219)

As one of the few non-minimal DE projects out there, what do you guys think of Wayland? From a leader's standpoint, is it relevant? From a designer standpoint, are you looking forward to working with a newer API? From a user standpoint, do you think it will be better enough than X to be justified?

Wayland? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316243)

How does Enlightenment relate to the Wayland replacement for x11?

Re:Wayland? (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316375)

It doesn't?

Re:Wayland? (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316561)

Wayland window manager are built in. Most of the Enlightenment code couldn't be used. On the other hand the EFL probably could be ported.

Re:Wayland? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316699)

Bull. Look up their commit log for wayland references... E17 looks more "Wayland Ready" than anything else out there.

Re:Wayland? (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42317069)

From the FAQ:

How can I replace Wayland's Window Manager?

The Wayland architecture integrates the display server, window manager and compositor into one process. You can think of Wayland as a toolkit for creating clients and compositors. It is not a specific single compositor or window manager. If you want a different window manager, you can write a new one.

This may sound like a lot of work, but one of the key points about Wayland is that the boilerplate code to a Wayland compositor is comparable or less than the X boilerplate involved in becoming an X window manager and compositor. Bringing up EGL and GLES2 on the Linux KMS framebuffer and reading input from evdev can be done in less than a thousand lines of code. The Wayland server side library provides the protocol implementation and makes it easy to put the pieces together.

http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_11 [freedesktop.org]

Re:Wayland? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317679)

And ? What does "makes it easy to put the pieces together" sound to you ? Does it sound like they're saying E17 won't be portable to Wayland with little effort ? If anything Enlightenment should run better in Wayland since it's properly fractured unlike anything else out there except maybe Unity since it's written specifically with this in mind.

Re:Wayland? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317897)

You are wrong.
E17 has a lot of code that is not directly related to X11, and some of waylands designs are compatible and require similar code.
That being said, E17 does already partially work with Wayland and will be useable as a Wayland compositor very soon.

KDE (1, Interesting)

Seeteufel (1736784) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316257)

Do you like KDE?

Re:KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316749)

I doubt he's a huge fan ;)

A long term project... (3)

LinuxGeek (6139) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316261)

How difficult has it been to keep working on the Enlightenment environment all this time and has the opensource community been supportive?

Plan to move away from X11? (1, Redundant)

auntieNeo (1605623) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316303)

Does the enlightenment project have any plans for moving away from X11 and towards Wayland in the future? While X11 will certainly stick around for quite a while, the popularity of portable touchscreen devices and the development of KMS makes it look X11 is on its way out.

compliment (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316305)

no question but a compliment. You always made very fast and useable libraries, thanks.

The definition of "done" in software (4, Interesting)

benjfowler (239527) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316367)

I thought that the conventional wisdom in Open Source, was to engage users and coders by releasing early, and releasing often.

Given that software never really is ever "done"; please enlighten us (cough) about the thinking behind waiting so long to do a stable release. Was this a calculated risk, given the risk for erstwhile E fans to simply lose interest?

Re:The definition of "done" in software (1)

Xtifr (1323) | about a year and a half ago | (#42318959)

I think I can field this one. E17 was developed openly. Some people have been using it for years. The stable release is simply that--it's now considered feature-complete and solid enough to be a 1.0 release instead of a 0.x release.

Elementary & cross-platform (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316399)

First off, congratulations on getting Enlightenment (nearly) out ! In this dark times of Gnome, KDE and Unity horrors, E17 and the EFL look like divine intervention :D

What I was wondering is, to what extent has Samsung involvement changed the project if at all ?

What can EFL offer me as a cross platform GUI-centric developer ? Is Android supported ? What about iOS \ iPhone ? I remember seeing some early attempts at getting the GUI tool kit - Elementary was it ? - to play nice under Windows. Was the w32 path ever pursued ? GTK+ is really showing it's age and Qt \ WxWidgets are very C++ centric. Their bindings are also very limiting: QMainWindow for instance is mostly private meaning docks can't be implemented easily without some crazy boilerplate.

Meh? (1, Funny)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316431)

After looking at the screenshots [enlightenment.org] , I don't understand what the fuss is all about. If that's supposed to represent the future I need to remind you that we're in 2012.

From the screenshots, I'd say it looks a bit better than Windows 98, but not any better than current GUIs from all three major operating systems.

Fantastic! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316493)

After looking at the screenshots [enlightenment.org] , I don't understand what the fuss is all about. If that's supposed to represent the future I need to remind you that we're in 2012.

From the screenshots, I'd say it looks a bit better than Windows 98, but not any better than current GUIs from all three major operating systems.

I looked at the screenshots you linked to and I had a different reaction. I thought, that looks great! There's little if no unnecessary clutter, no excessive and superfluous window decorations. It's clean, without quite being spartan, and functional with everything in a fairly familiar place. Fantastic!

I don't remember Windows 98 that well, but if it was like this, it was way ahead of its time. The new interfaces of KDE 4, Windows 8, Gnome 3 and Unity suck ass. Enlightenment looks like a breath of fresh air in comparison.

Re:Fantastic! (1)

yahwotqa (817672) | about a year and a half ago | (#42318123)

I don't really care about how screenshots look like - most of that appearance can be changed to your liking with themes. What I care about is how it handles, how it can be tweaked to my workflow, so that it enables me to do my stuff and gets out of my way.

And that is something each user will have to determine for themselves, since it is very subjective.

Re:Meh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42319619)

Try the to look at the screenshots at http://www.bodhilinux.com/about_dotw.php [bodhilinux.com] ,those are actually screenshots of real users screens.

Are You The Same Rastaman? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316433)

Are you the same rastaman that hangs out on my corner selling weed?

If so, will you continue your illicit operation here or will you be moving to Colorado or Washington?

Is there a demo? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316441)

I was wondering if there was a demo video or tutorial that shows you Enlightenment in action? I went to the actual Enlightenment.org website but in two minutes of looking found nothing. Seems to me this should have been the most prominent thing on the page, no? I shouldn't have to go searching youtube.

Re:Is there a demo? (1)

uncle slacky (1125953) | about a year and a half ago | (#42317413)

Bodhi Linux (the best E17 implementation IMHO) has a short video on their site: http://www.bodhilinux.com/ [bodhilinux.com]

Has fragmented licensing impacted adoption? (4, Interesting)

undeadbill (2490070) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316477)

I've noted that while Enlightenment is BSD licensed, but some of the foundational libraries are licensed under *various* versions of the GPL. What gives? This would be confusing to most people who are looking to repackage E for use on various devices. Is there going to be a resolution for the licensing mess, or will development continue with multiple licenses that have to be negotiated by vendors and others interested in using this with their products? The issue isn't free beer vs free speech, the issue is how does one decide which license takes greatest precedence. Is the project going to go forward as GPLv3, v2, v1, or 2 clause BSD, or what?

Re:Has fragmented licensing impacted adoption? (1)

jbolden (176878) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316599)

When GPL code is intermixed with BSD the rule is either:

a) Treat it all like GPL
b) Be very careful and don't be confused about what is being used where.

Re:Has fragmented licensing impacted adoption? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317967)

There is no license mess.
The older libraries started by Rasterman and e17 are BSD 2-Clause licensed, newer libs started by other people (often working at Profusion) are LGPL-2.1 licensed.
This is very specific, it is NO GPL, only LGPL, and only one specific LGPL version.

So for any user of the libraries it has no impact on their code, for anyone contributing to the E libraries, you'll have to take a quick glance at the license file or documentation to determine if you're contributing under BSD-2 or LGPL-2.1.

Grand visions for the future (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316505)

Why does every developer at the moment want to shove hideous user hostile (unwanted) changes down the throats of users? So many features that the users want and have become accustomed to get "cleaned up" while the new way of doing things tends to be limited and restrictive. Seriously., Tool bars removed from browsers and history kept against the user's will (Firefox), popular codecs removed (Handbrake), and do I need to mention KDE or the Ubuntu desktop fiasco? It's not just open source. That abomination of a ribbon UI on Office products that forces users to remember arbitrary groupings of functionality if they ever want to get anything done (while throwing out screen realestate). The most significant thing is there is no way to revert and options that people have been adding for over a decade are steadily removed in the name of simplification (dumbing down!) the interface. Often the developers will actively force the change by removing old versions from their repositories (or in the case of commercial software from sale).

Re:Grand visions for the future (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317107)

The Ribbon is a good concept that is sadly forced fed to the users by not offering a "classic" option and customizations. Dassault's SolidWorks and Adobe Photoshop have similar workflow based GUIs that work EXTREMELY well because they offer the users the option to expose different functionality through either the provided defaults or by the user's preferences.

Essentially, It's a classic failure of imagination which is deadly to engineers and is repeated time and time again once developers stop listening to the users: The Gnome, KDE and Unity devs looked at their own workflow and decided to adjust to it. Each team was only bothered by specific lacks and needs and so designed a GUI to address this alone without stopping to think what if someone else wants a different functionality. So, they ended up repeating Microsoft's original fallacy.

b.t.w. You mentioned Firefox but you can turn the menu on in Firefox and that's why no one else complained about it. Case and point of making big changes properly.

Share the strategy (4, Interesting)

glebovitz (202712) | about a year and a half ago | (#42316547)

I would like to know how you managed to convince Intel and Samsung to build yet another mobile framework on a technology that has been really difficult to use, and has a very small share of the UI framework "market?" Is it that Enlightenment is providing UIs of the future, or is everything better encumbered by their ownership or stakeholders?

Re:Share the strategy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317733)

+1, excellent question if not very polite :)

Re:Share the strategy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42318145)

I wonder why this is making you Qt guys so mad.
Some of you at least.

Re:Share the strategy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42318447)

As a Qt dev I can't wait until I can finally throw away Qt once the EFL proves full cross-platform capacity*. Do you think I like using QThreads, QSqlDatabase and be forced to wrap everything with a QObject ?! I do it because nothing else works right with Qt. Just because we use it doesn't mean we drink from the QCoolAid.

* Windows specifically.

10th year of windows XP SIGH (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316583)

So This past year saw the tenth aniversary of the introduction of Windows XP operating system and desktop interface. I am writing from such a machine in my corporate job. Why o why has not the linux community come up with a substitute (desktop and OS) that is faster, more secure, easier to install, supports more hardware and cheaper than microsoft support contracts ( or miscrosoft OEM *taxes*)

You are on the front lines.

The arrgument KDE vs gnome is ONE problem.

Lack of support of hardware is another...

rant rant rant...

sigh

Re:10th year of windows XP SIGH (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316743)

So This past year saw the tenth aniversary of the introduction of Windows XP operating system and desktop interface. I am writing from such a machine in my corporate job. Why o why has not the linux community come up with a substitute (desktop and OS) that is faster, more secure, easier to install, supports more hardware and cheaper than microsoft support contracts ( or miscrosoft OEM *taxes*)

faster - done.
more secure - done.
easier to install - done.
supports more hardware - done.
cheaper then MS support contracts or OEM costs - I can't speak for support costs, but OS costs much less.

What area (assuming you're serious) do you think that Linux hasn't outdone XP on? Linux desktop beat Windows a long time ago. Now it's retrogressing.

rewrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316631)

I'd rewrite it again, it's outdated tech if it took 10 years to write, seriously, rewrite it again for the next 1-2 yrs keeping good ideas and scrapping old, while incorporating modern ideas.

or do we start the next rewrite now?

gg

Any things you would change? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42316855)

I really like the way E does many things (I've been using e17 for almost 10yrs now), but was wondering if in hind-sight there are things you would rather change. E.g. perhaps sandboxing modules to prevent module issues affecting the WM generally; restarting pulseaudio will crash sound mixer module will cause E to have to restart.

Desktop trends (3, Interesting)

WayToGoPhil (1341289) | about a year and a half ago | (#42317041)

Whats your view on the current trend of desktops to be more like their tablet/phone cousins? Do you see any features that can be brought over from either side without sacrificing usability? Also how do you feel about black turtleneck shirts?

ESD / PulseAudio / etc. (4, Interesting)

WhiteDragon (4556) | about a year and a half ago | (#42317111)

When Enlightenment came out, it also included ESD, the Enlightened Sound Daemon. Window events could cause sounds, which was nice, but ESD was also a sound multiplexing and remote sound protocol that was way ahead of its time. Now, there are PulseAudio, Jack, Yiff, Phonon, etc. and many people say the whole thing's a big mess. What's your opinion on the current state of sound / mixing on Linux desktops.

e16 wins (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42317907)

I'm not a heavy linux user any more - Windows 7 was enough to bring me back into Microsoft's world full-time. However, back through university and the dark days of Windows XP, e16 was the first time I'd call a GUI beautiful and functional.

However, every now and then I boot into one of my stored legacy linux boxes to tweak a long-forgotten or abandoned project of mine, and I instantly remember why I loved used e16 so much back in the day. Maybe e17 will bring me back into linux a bit more... Anyone know if a new Slackware is coming out?

Why did development stall? (1)

z00z (661886) | about a year and a half ago | (#42318035)

As a long time fan of Enlightenment, I feel really sad about its current state. What happened? Why did development stall for this long? Was it just an issue of time, or is there more to the story? And what can we expect for the future?

Prior art (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42318083)

Enlightenment seems to have introduced many new features to desktops for many years.
Do you have some anecdotes of E being used as prior art to help people fend off patent lawsuits?

eye candy and such (1)

Gozzin (2125020) | about a year and a half ago | (#42318291)

Could you add some really creative mouse themes and fix zoom so you can use superkey scroll to zoom like on Compiz?

Biggest X11 design error ? (3, Interesting)

redelm (54142) | about a year and a half ago | (#42318891)

You've done a lot of X programming, so as a user of that API, you must have strong opinions about it. What are the worst design decisions in X11? (The toughest things to get around/fix) What are the best? (Timesavers)

innovation (1)

thePsychologist (1062886) | about a year and a half ago | (#42319885)

Do you think there is any substantially new feature to be added to desktop environments? In particular, do you think the desktop environment in 20 years will be different than those of today?

FOSDEM'13 ? (1)

cfriedt (1189527) | about a year and a half ago | (#42320465)

Last year it was great seeing your presentation and getting a chance to bounce some ideas off you at FOSDEM. The 2013 schedule is still open - are you planning to go again this year and / or give a talk?

Freedesktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42320639)

What is your opinion about the various FreeDesktop standard and how that "organization" help or not the development of Linux Desktop ? Do you think it could be improved ?

Book? (2)

cfriedt (1189527) | about a year and a half ago | (#42320737)

In the small-ish world of open-source & embedded graphics, toolkits, and SW / HW rendering implementors, there are few who have been at it as long and have such a breadth / depth of experience in so many areas as yourself.

As someone who has done a fair bit of searching for resources on the theory and practical design of such systems, I must say, that there are few books out there that concisely describe the "how" and "why" in a design-patterns kind of way tie in with immediately relevant topics (e.g. fbdev, widget & drawing libs, scene-graphs). Naturally, implementors often pick up the talent and ensure that trade secret is kept that way, but you are at a bit of an advantage I think, no?

You've been at E for a *long* time and you've done an insane amount of work making SW rendering almost as efficient as HW rendering - I'm sure there is no shortage of material.

Have you ever thought about writing a book - sharing some of your expertise with the world in a less formal language? Not something that's all-encompassing by any means but maybe with references for further reading. What about a techno-biography of E?

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