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Australian ISP iiNet Walks Out of Piracy Warning System Talks

Unknown Lamer posted about a year and a half ago | from the good-luck-pirating-with-data-caps dept.

The Internet 120

An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from Torrent Freak: "A leading Australian Internet service provider has pulled out of negotiations to create a warning notice scheme aimed at reducing online piracy. iiNet, the ISP that was sued by Hollywood after refusing to help chase down alleged infringers, said that it can't make any progress with rightsholders if they don't make their content freely available at a reasonable price. The ISP adds that holding extra data on customers' habits is inappropriate and not their responsibility."

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FIRST POST!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42323571)

BITCH!!!

Good on them. (5, Insightful)

crafty.munchkin (1220528) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323593)

As an Aussie, I approve of them making a stand against how everyone in this country is ripped off by all the media outlets - especially when our dollar is worth more than the US dollar. And as for making us wait 3-6 months because they don't want us watching... well, the internet tore down that time barrier as well.

Re:Good on them. (5, Interesting)

lilrobbie (1193045) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323607)

These guys have been doing this for years as well. I actually have kept overbuying my broadband allocations (I use probably 20% a month) simply because they have been so honest and decent. Good service... and they have gone to bat for my rights every time. iiNet is changing the shape of Aussie ISPs, doing a wonderful job keeping Telstra/Optus and co. honest. The others see iiNet back out, and suddenly realise you can say no to the media industry on unrealistic or overly power-hungry requests.

I don't work for them... just a very satisfied consumer of their services.

Re:Good on them. (4, Interesting)

tezbobobo (879983) | about a year and a half ago | (#42325569)

They've been my ISP for almost a decade now and I will continue to support them for exactly the same reason. I think it is amazing that you get companies that spout the "do no evil" crap, and here is iiNet just going about its business doing right by their clients. Good on ya iiNet. Disclaimer: I don't work for iiNet, but I did apply for a job there once. Disclaimer 2: They phoned me but did not give me an interview. We're till on good terms though.

Re:Good on them. (4, Informative)

Arker (91948) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323671)

I would love to see a US ISP take the same stances, but it's actually easier for them to do it in au, precisely because Hollywood is so used to treating y'all as 'secondary markets' to be abused, which fact tends to swing the nationalist vote in on the side of the angels. If Hollywood were located outside Sydney I am sure they would never have the balls to stand up to them.

Re:Good on them. (5, Informative)

erroneus (253617) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324265)

A US ISP would find itself destroyed just in legal fees. To survive such an assault, the 'free[dom] lawyers groups' would have to be standing by to take up the defense of any rebelious ISP in the US.

It would all get real ugly real fast. And in the US, media companies are often also ISPs or are very closely connected to them as many offer TV services as well as telephone and internet. So any ISP who fits that profile would find themselves unable to offer TV services shortly thereafter.

Re:Good on them. (1)

heypete (60671) | about a year and a half ago | (#42325667)

sonic.net is pretty solid in that regard.

Disclaimer: family members are sonic customers but otherwise neither I nor anyone I know have any interest in the company.

Re:Good on them. (3, Interesting)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323687)

Damn. That must be the ONLY honest, customer-friendly ISP on the whole planet. Cling to them like your lives depended on it!

Re:Good on them. (2)

crafty.munchkin (1220528) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323733)

Is it wrong that I left them because they screwed me over in other ways (hey, they are an ISP, after all!)?

Re:Good on them. (4, Informative)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323761)

TekSavvy in Canada is a similar provider. Vote with your dollars folks.

Re:Good on them. (4, Informative)

Anubis350 (772791) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323939)

Speakeasy in the US is similar too. We have FiOS now for our primary connection since it's so much faster, but still use Speakeasy for an extra, redundant business line since their support is so good.

Re:Good on them. (2)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324119)

Andrews and Arnold in the UK. http://aaisp.net/ [aaisp.net] .

Re:Good on them. (5, Informative)

Tsingi (870990) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324361)

And TekSavvy is currently refusing to give up 1100 names in a tentative media lawsuit.
Glad to see this comment, TekSavvy is the Canadian iiNET.

Re:Good on them. (2)

Seek_1 (639070) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324573)

Here's another positive voice of support for TekSavvy.

If you live in Canada, call and see if you can get them. They're a fantastic ISP (not to mention extremely competitive) and the company actually cares about their customers.

Re:Good on them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42327777)

they are giving the names up.
they have a court injunction to delay the procedure to January 14, but they have opted not to represent the users as a whole. i believe they feel that will increase the effort and cost of Voltage's lawyers.
i'm hoping the whole things dies quickly.

Re:Good on them. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42323875)

That type of service is actually quite common from Aussie ISP's, not of all of them though. Having worked at iiNet and other Aussie ISP's myself, I know first hand how such an excellent enviroment iiNet and some of the others are, not only for customers but for staff too. Especially iiNet - you should see the (new) iiNet offices: http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/06/inside-iinets-perth-hq-bob-fruit-finn/

Oh, and the title to this article/thread is misleading: Aussies have had unlimited plans for ages now, and for cheap. I myself am sitting on unlimited DSL2+ (and not TPG/Dodo/etc either). True that some other Aussie ISP's don't have unlimited plans, but most, like iiNet, have 1TB+ monthly plans, which is more than enough for most people. I also find the title ironic, considering how (at least some of) the USA ISP's are imposing download limits on their plans now :)

Re:Good on them. (2)

jampola (1994582) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324071)

I haven't lived in Aus for a few years now but there are quite a lot of honest ISP back home. I remmeber Exetel, Westnet and a few others who were quite good. I am looking forward to seeing how that whole purely wholesale fibre ISP will go.

Re:Good on them. (1)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | about a year and a half ago | (#42326531)

FYI, iiNet has taken over most of the good ones, including Westnet. Their last marketing campaign was based around the slogan "We're number two". Not referring to the fact that they were sh!t (number 2) except ironically, but instead saying that they'd achieved the second largest market share of broadband after Telstra (the Australian company that had a virtual telco monopoly) DISCLAIMER: My housemate works for iiNet and I've been a long term customer.

Re:Good on them. (2)

oobayly (1056050) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324989)

In the UK there's Andrews and Arnold [aaisp.net] . Native IPv6, excellect monitoring (I get an SMS when the line goes down and back up), and genuinely knowledgeable people. They cost extra, but for me it's well worth it.

Their opinions on filtering [aaisp.net] are quite interesting too (my emphasis):

...There is a lot of nasty stuff on the Internet as well as useful content. This is, however, your responsibility and not something we are offering. There are many packages available for various operating systems.

We do not have any black boxes designed to filter or monitor traffic and you are welcome to ask RevK on irc if this is still true at any time and take a lack of reply or evasive reply as you wish. Obviously we will ask if the law requires us to actually lie if ever we are subject to such legislation, and if not this statement would be removed. It is an interesting point as the statement that we are not filtering or monitoring is done for financial gain (to get customers) so if we were required to lie under RIPA we would be committing an offence under the Fraud Act. A debate to be had if ever it happens. You can probably get a clue if ever we dissolve the company and move all the contracts to a new company at any time...

Re:Good on them. (1)

I cant believe its n (1103137) | about a year and a half ago | (#42330497)

Sweden has Bahnhof [bahnhof.se] .

Re:Good on them. (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324365)

Even with piracy it's more profitable to screw you. Sure, they could sell you a DRM free high quality video file the second it finishes airing in the US, but then they couldn't sell it to some Australian channel that will pay even more for it.

Well, perhaps... No one has actually tried giving you what you want with a major TV show, so perhaps it would work. Broadcast TV is already dying, relegated to being little more than a release platform for people's DVRs and BitTorrent clients.

Re:Good on them. (0)

mumblestheclown (569987) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324543)

how is the consumer "ripped off" in a voluntary exchange of money and non-essential goods for which there are countless substitutes, including countless free ones?

how does the value printed on your dollar make it worth more or less than the US dollar? if the number printed on the bill makes a big difference to you, then i'll offer you a great deal - one billion melmac dollars for just 1000 of your aussie ones.

guys, i'm sure crafty munchkin's a nice person, but he clearly lacks even the basics in terms of knowledge of economics and policy. why did he get +5 again?

It isn't a voluntary exchange of money (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325023)

It isn't a voluntary exchange of money because the seller sets the price and therefore there is no negotiation.

If you want to claim "They didn't have to buy it", then piracy is just the free market managing to find the route that gives a price close to the percieved value of the product. If you can't negotiate the price, piracy is the next nearest acceptable price on offer.

Remember, the don't have to make the movies. They could just decide to do something else instead. Nobody is MAKING them make music/movies/whatever and it's not like piracy was sprung on them out of the blue: it's been known about for decades.

Re:Good on them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42326405)

The consumer is getting "ripped off" because the consumer had a right to access culture removed in the understanding that the consumer would benefit from the government granted monopoly to the media.

Instead, the media is abusing monopolistic powers to squeeze an "unfair" amount of money. If the amount wasn't "unfair" piracy wouldn't be an issue. I don't agree with commercial piracy, but "at-home" piracy should not be out-laws, but be considered "legal competition" to unfair media pricing.

Good news! (5, Insightful)

It took my meds (1843456) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323629)

I'm so glad I'm with iiNet; they take a stand for me as a consumer. I don't pirate anything, nor do I view content that is outside the norms of adult society, however my browsing habits are not other people's business - especially corporate entities!

Re:Good news! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324065)

I'm so glad I'm with iiNet; they take a stand for me as a consumer. I don't pirate anything, nor do I view content that is outside the norms of adult society, however my browsing habits are not other people's business - especially corporate entities!

No disrespect intended, but there isn't anything special about that. You are just like the vast majority of other internet users. It's high time that the media companies and the government get that through their head.

Should everyone be "tracked like an animal" on the internet just because some people abuse it? No. Same goes for the advertisers who think tracking everybody is their god given right.

Congratulations (4, Interesting)

cffrost (885375) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323649)

My congratulations to Australians for having an ISP that stands up for the interests of its customers.

I wonder if we could ever get something like that in the United States? Haha, I'm just kidding... I know we can't.

However, I wish you all the best in keeping iiNet—particularly, resisting pressure and bullying tactics from my country's government and its corporate controllers.

Re:Congratulations (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42323793)

> My congratulations to Australians for having an ISP that stands up for the interests of its customers.

I am not a customer of iiNet, but rather Internode, which was recently bought by iiNet. I chose Internode because they use Linux themselves, they don't care if you use a Linux desktop as a customer, and they have a great unmetered mirror for FOSS software:

http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/

I can get 62,000+ packages for my desktop Linux distribution (Kubuntu 12.10) available as un-metered download (so that it doesn't count towards my download cap). I can effortlessly maintain all of my desktop software for zero cost this way.

I can also access the ABC's iView, and I can also access iiNet's freezone.

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/entertainment/unmetered_content/

Re:Congratulations (1)

Tsingi (870990) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324375)

It's a rare ISP that doesn't use Linux.

Re:Congratulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324653)

yeah I was gonna say, what? Moreover, I've never heard of any ISP that cares what OS you use.

Re:Congratulations (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324961)

yeah I was gonna say, what? Moreover, I've never heard of any ISP that cares what OS you use.

You've never heard of any major corporate ISP then. None of them support Linux and all of them want you to take various troubleshooting steps in Windows if you call them up with a problem that you've already traced to their network.

Re:Congratulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325497)

oh, if you're talking about support, then fine. i've never had to call isp tech support though and i probably never would.

Re:Congratulations (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42325567)

oh, if you're talking about support, then fine. i've never had to call isp tech support though and i probably never would.

So, if your connection were down, and it wasn't coming back up on its own, and you had eliminated your equipment as a source of problems, you'd just sit and wait for someone to bring an Ethernet cable in your window?

Re:Congratulations (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#42326215)

Indeed, when I connected to AT&T's DSL, I couldn't log in to the connection screen because it was Windows-only and both my computers were running Linux. Luckily there was a Windows laptop I could borrow to log in with.

Re:Congratulations (1)

oobayly (1056050) | about a year and a half ago | (#42325027)

Ones that want to install their shitty software onto their machine. For example, BT install an Help executable (that wants to be updated occasionaly). All it does is open their help page in Internet Exploder (even if it's not your default browser).

Re:Congratulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324975)

Ii net at home and internode at work.

They have always been virtually identical except that iinet gives separate allowances for on and off peak which works for me at home and internode lets me use the whole thing on peak which works at work.

I run a cafe with an open hotspot.

Completely open. As long as I don't see something illegal while serving I don't ask questions, block ports or anything.

I am thinking about it though as my limit gets reached very quickly each month!!

Re:Congratulations (3, Insightful)

Chewbacon (797801) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323809)

Nah, the dollar is so much sweeter than consumer rights when you're a big business. And most people don't mind having their rights taken away from them!

Can't? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324215)

Really? Is there something stopping you from starting one? I don't think so. If you REALLY believe in it, go out there, find some like-minded people, raise some money and start one.

Re:Congratulations (1)

stephanruby (542433) | about a year and a half ago | (#42325135)

My congratulations to Australians for having an ISP that stands up for the interests of its customers. I wonder if we could ever get something like that in the United States? Haha, I'm just kidding... I know we can't.

There are ISPs like that in the United States like that one. It just depends on where you live, and if you took the time to do your research. [broadbandreports.com]

I assume it's the same in Australia. Since Australia is huge too, I'll bet that most aussies couldn't get iinet even if they wanted to.

Re:Congratulations (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325859)

Australia is generally DSL and cable in select areas.

DSL is unbundled although you get better speeds and caps if your isp is not reselling telstra wholesale.

iinet have a presence in tons of telephone exchanges i.e their own DSLAM's as do at least 5 other major providers.

Even if your exchange is Telstra wholesale only, almost any ISP can resell it although the plans are nowhere near as good they are still quite livable.

At my local telephone exchange I have 6 DSLAM providers available.

iinet is the 2nd largest ISP here.

Lastly Australia may be huge (99% of continuous continental USA) but only about 10% is practically habitable, more than 90% of the population live along the coast.

Re:Congratulations (2)

Sabriel (134364) | about a year and a half ago | (#42330611)

There are ISPs like that in the United States like that one. It just depends on where you live, and if you took the time to do your research. [broadbandreports.com]

I assume it's the same in Australia. Since Australia is huge too, I'll bet that most aussies couldn't get iinet even if they wanted to.

Actually, mostly we can. Australia has not been carved up into fiefdoms by the big telcos like the US has, though the suits certainly tried (and tried, and tried, and are still trying). And that was actually in part because we saw what happened in the US (e.g. with AT&T and the Baby Bells), and the government at the time went "hell, no". Whether future Aussie governments will continue to remember these lessons is anybody's guess. I hope so.

nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42323667)

I especially like

The ISP adds that holding extra data on customers' habits is inappropriate and not their responsibility."

Now that they actually don't do that is something else, but at least their saying it, and leaving the talks, so theres a good possibility they respect their customers privacy.

It also shows something else,these talks are probably organized with the idea that both parties could potentially benefit somehow. iiNet clearly states that none of that would be happening and the rights holders aren't looking for a scenario that would be positive for both parties, they only want to get free rides on the ISPs back. That's why the ISP is walking out with the nice taglines, they don't see any possible solution where they can benefit from talking with the rights holders.

Also in Australia... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42323677)

...Someone did or didn't do something to or with someone or something.

Or possibly not.

But it was in Australia, or it involved Australians, or otherwise had an Australian connection, maybe, therefore it should be reported on Slashdot.

Because Slashdot fucking loves all things Australian.

Re:Also in Australia... (1)

Fluffeh (1273756) | about a year and a half ago | (#42330405)

Because Slashdot fucking loves all things Australian.

Whoa there cowboy, slow down. What's not to like about us? Settle down mate, here, have a tinnie, I'll throw some extra prawns on the barbie.

We'll get you in the right frame of mind soon enough.

She's a good Sheila,Bruce,and not at all stuck up. (1)

korbulon (2792438) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323727)

Crack a series of tubes.

To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42323743)

If you don't live here, in Australia - you don't understand.

We get gouged, delayed or denied on a lot.

Last week I bought a Steinberg Cubase 7 upgrade. A DOWNLOAD product - I paid $199. It's $149 to US customers. That's a typical situation for us. It's always the same story in this country. The distributors/retailers (whether they be television channels, bricks and mortar sellers or whatever), they control the price through publisher->retailer relationship and that means we get it when they want, for the price they want and fuck you if you don't want to pay for their shitty overheads.

If I want games off steam, often,I have to pay up to 90 US for a release title. Not steam's fault.

If I wanted to watch the final season of sopranos legitimately (and believe me, I tried), I saw something like 2 episodes, then it went away for about a month, came back for another couple of episodes and it was gone again. Typical television patronage, here. My response? What am I supposed to do? Hang out for the tv guide, every week? Sorry, you created my desire to watch your program and I'm now going to watch it.

If I want to watch English Premier League games online (because I can't afford the $70-80 a month for all inclusive pay tv) - I'm only able to watch a few games of someone elses choice through their online service because like so many things online, currently, the content just goes to whoever will front for it. Telstra own the rights to online rugby league coverage in this country - they do next to NOTHING with it.

I could go on with hours of fragments of information and complaints on the situation and I'm sure the grass is green here in many ways - but it is a little frustrating to have to constantly circumvent the legitimate purchase method (whether it be through downloading the product for free, or buying it at a grey import seller) - just so I can't feel like a chump for paying twice the price everybody else on earth does.

And let's get something straight - I PREFER to buy. Steam completely and utterly destroyed piracy for me. I love it. But what I don't love is how the shitheads running unprofitable stores contributing fuck all to my gaming life necessitate that I can't buy a game for the price retailers in the rest of the world sell it for.

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (2)

isorox (205688) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323807)

If I wanted to watch the final season of sopranos legitimately (and believe me, I tried), I saw something like 2 episodes, then it went away for about a month, came back for another couple of episodes and it was gone again. Typical television patronage, here. My response? What am I supposed to do? Hang out for the tv guide, every week? Sorry, you created my desire to watch your program and I'm now going to watch it.

We had this through the 90s in the uk, so people like me downloaded the episodes (starting off on 56k modems at about 128kbit)

Then sky caught on and now episodes are broadcast within a week of u.s. airings (some series we had the episodes before the u.s!)

However we don't bother any more, too much hassle, we simply wait for the DVDs to come out. Just finished watching Sanctuary, and have reached season 7 of 24 (we gave up when it left the BBC after day 2). We do lose something in the lack of cliffhangers, but the lack of adverts, the lack of faff of downloading, and the instant availability when and where we want, more than makes up for it.

We occasionally dip back into TV -- we watched Terra Nova last year. Just got into it, and then it was cancelled. By waiting a few years we can see when a series is worthwhile buying.

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (2)

FireFury03 (653718) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323911)

Then sky caught on and now episodes are broadcast within a week of u.s. airings (some series we had the episodes before the u.s!)

The stuff we got before the US always tended to be because the US insist on having a mid-season break whereas we generally don't. So the start of the series came a couple of weeks after the US showed it, and then the US went into their mid-season break and we overtook them for the second half.

However we don't bother any more, too much hassle, we simply wait for the DVDs to come out. Just finished watching Sanctuary, and have reached season 7 of 24 (we gave up when it left the BBC after day 2). We do lose something in the lack of cliffhangers, but the lack of adverts, the lack of faff of downloading, and the instant availability when and where we want, more than makes up for it.

We occasionally dip back into TV -- we watched Terra Nova last year. Just got into it, and then it was cancelled. By waiting a few years we can see when a series is worthwhile buying.

I gave up my Sky subscription years ago. I realised that I was basically only watching 2 or 3 programmes on Sky, and for that had to pay £20/month for 60 channels I wasn't interested in. Cheaper to buy the DVDs of the shows I want to watch. I do still watch broadcast TV, but its pretty much entirely BBC and S4C, I certainly don't feel like I'm losing out by dropping pay TV. If the pay-TV broadcasters stopped bundling channels I'm not interested in (and making me pay for them), stopped the wall-to-wall adverts, *and* stopped with their crazy DRM that prevents me using MythTV with their broadcasts, then its vaguely possible I might resubscribe, but to be honest the convenience of just buying DVDs instead of having to deal with the broadcasters' shit is good.

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324509)

On that cancellation part, this is why I prefer the shorter series system. It is much easier to gauge interest in a show compared to those absolutely broken and retarded viewership systems that simply do not work.

Honestly, sometimes I actually do wish they would force TVs on people that would watch their viewing habits. I couldn't give less of a f*&(k about the privacy implications of my damn TV habits, or the paranoid freaks that cry about it.
Oh no, they know I like the sci-fis and horror, MAYBE THE SHOWS WILL SURVIVE FOR ANOTHER SEASON NOW, THE HORROR!

Game of Thrones from theoatmeal (4, Insightful)

Hyperhaplo (575219) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323861)

Americans have a similar situation.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones [theoatmeal.com]

Mod parent up... (1)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324007)

Americans have a similar situation.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones [theoatmeal.com]

Americans are not the only ones. I generally try to pay for stuff that I feel is worth watching, listening to or running. Pirating takes too long, the quality is often crap, and pirated stuff is riddled with malware. That cartoon is basically the story of what happened when I tried to pay for the privilege of watching Season 2, except most of these services that cartoon character tried are "... unfortunately unable to finalize the transaction due to geographical restrictions" even when the stuff I want is available. The only other ways to get to watch GoT Season 2 was a 3 month minimum package subscription featuring a legion of channels that I never watch or.... put up with the 12 hour delay and pirate GoT after exhausting all legal alternatives except overpriced cable subscriptions.

Re:Mod parent up... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324117)

Pirating takes too long, the quality is often crap, and pirated stuff is riddled with malware.
That might be the case with some pirating categories. Anime fan encodes/fansubs are generally much better than legal alternatives.

takes too long
Only if legal alternative is available (depending on your country of residence, it might be or it might not be).

quality is often crap
http://blisswater.info/regarding-crunchyroll-and-1080p-streaming/
Quoting article (Daiz),
The importance of filtering is even bigger for CR than it is for fansubs. If you are a legit customer of CR and watch their streams on their website, you can't apply any kind of postprocessing whatsoever, unlike with illegal downloads. ..

Just having similar quality to Japanese TV isn't enough when the western anime fanbase, in other words CR's entire audience, is used to watching filtered fansubs rather than raw unfiltered broadcasts.

And then the last point.
pirated stuff is riddled with malware.
I don't remember a single malware incident where file that was being offered on group's own website/being hosted on trusted tracker. And ~everyone who downloads anime knows where those are (they don't really try to hide it).

Re:Mod parent up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324143)

Pirating takes too long

You're doing it wrong.

the quality is often crap

You're doing it wrong. There are often many different things available, all at different qualities.

and pirated stuff is riddled with malware.

Why are you on Slashdot? This shit isn't even a problem if you know what you're doing.

Re:Mod parent up... (0)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324439)

Pirating takes too long

You're doing it wrong.

Really? It seems I have to queue up even for the most popular downloads for tens of minutes or even hours and then they take hours to download.

the quality is often crap

You're doing it wrong. There are often many different things available, all at different qualities.

Right, and stuff is mislabeled, has TV station logos in the corners, texts and crap overlaid, ... the list goes on. As it happened with GoT the first things to show up just after the HBO premier were low quality rips with many of them being sub-texted in French, Spanish, Russian. I'm sure that if you wait long enough the HD rip that you want eventually shows up, I was not prepared to wait. As it was I finally found an un-texted low quality rip and watched it before the international GoT premier.

and pirated stuff is riddled with malware.

Why are you on Slashdot? This shit isn't even a problem if you know what you're doing.

First, allow me to complement you on the tone of that statement, you did a good job of sounding like a condescending asshole. But, your character flaws notwithstanding, your're probably right. If you are prepared to filter your downloads through a malware/root-kit detection suite with all the associated hassle that's your business. I'm not willing to spend the time you obviously lavish on your pirating since I do this only pirate occasionally, I actually have a life and don't spend large portions of my spare time downloading terabytes upon terabytes of crap that I never watch or listen to. Thus legal downloads won't cost me a fortune anyway.

Re:Mod parent up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324479)

It seems I have to queue up even for the most popular downloads for tens of minutes or even hours and then they take hours to download.

You can do other things while it's downloading. Unless you need something immediately, this isn't really a problem (for me).

Right, and stuff is mislabeled, has TV station logos in the corners, texts and crap overlaid, ... the list goes on.

I honestly don't have these problems. I use private trackers and pay attention to comments, so...

I'm not willing to spend the time you obviously lavish on your pirating since I do this only pirate occasionally

I don't really pirate that much, but it's not difficult for me to find what I'm looking for.

I actually have a life

As do I. Or did you just assume that pirating a few things means you don't have a life? There are 24 hours in a day and 7 days a week, my friend; plenty of time to do other things.

mislabelled is different (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324585)

the quality is often crap... ...and stuff is mislabeled, has TV station logos in the corners, texts and crap overlaid,

Yeah, lets read that again.

a) Mislabeled. Who cares? You didn't pay for it, download a real one. Often the mislabelling is done to deliberately piss off infringers.
b) The stuff you get legally has TV station logos in the corners, text and crap overlaid AND HAS ADVERTS AS WELL.

"First, allow me to complement you on the tone of that statement"

First, allow me to complement you on avoiding the issue. Your assertion of malware in downloads. You have even manged to sound like a WHINING condescending asshole AS WELL AS an idiot who can't justify their statements so go off on an irrelevant tangent. Well done!

"If you are prepared to filter your downloads through a malware/root-kit detection suite with all the associated hassle..."

Nope, just a simple virus checker that, if you're on windows, you will already have and will automatically run for you too. Wow. What a hassle.

Despite that, 99.9% of the downloads or more have NO MALWARE AT ALL. Indeed, the Sony Rootkit shows your shop-bought CD is more likely to have malware installed.

The care you take is not go looking for malware ridden sites.

Torrents are almost never (and i've NEVER had one) malware infected: there's no profit in it: a malware torrent site gets avoided when its found out, a malware seeded file looks different from the others and gets no seeders when the malware is discovered. The malware stuff never exists for long and the volume of non-malware stuff far outstrips the manlwared stuff you have to go deliberately looking for it.

PS the legal downloads will cost you with malware and DRM fuckuppery.

Re:mislabelled is different (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42326827)

the quality is often crap... ...and stuff is mislabeled, has TV station logos in the corners, texts and crap overlaid,

Yeah, lets read that again.

a) Mislabeled. Who cares? You didn't pay for it, download a real one. Often the mislabelling is done to deliberately piss off infringers.
b) The stuff you get legally has TV station logos in the corners, text and crap overlaid AND HAS ADVERTS AS WELL.

"First, allow me to complement you on the tone of that statement"

The time and bandwidth I used to download the wrong file are an opportunity cost that I not only did pay, but was tricked into paying it.

The content I get from services like iTunes and Netflix does not have logo overlays or advertisements.

Still nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42326413)

Still nothing other than the bare claim that malware abounds in torrent downloads?

PS you already have a virus checker. Big hassle, huh?

Re:Mod parent up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42327871)

You don't know what you're doing if you have to queue up for anything.

ANY tv show is available 30 minutes after the newest airs to me. And it will be completed in half that time.

ANY movie is available to me on the day or before the dvd comes out. And will be completed in less time than it would take to watch that movie.

logos? Only for tv shows. And if you had watched it the 'legal' way you'd have seen that too. null point.

malware? know how much malware i've seen for video files? zero.
Know how much i've seen for games? actual executable content? zero.

And that's in thousands and thousands of downloads. the crap to quality ratio is better than any legal content distribution on the planet. by far.

The reality is i click. search. click twice more. and what i want is completed within the hour. Truely on demand. And there is NO legal way to do that. none. zip. zero. nada. you can't fucking do it that simply for all the money in the world.

stop being bullheaded about it all. aside from the legal/illegal issue piracy is perfect.

Re:Game of Thrones from theoatmeal (3, Insightful)

Phrogman (80473) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324011)

Yes given that you need to pay for Cable up here in Canada, then pay for specialty channels etc, someone in another forum post worked out that watching Game of Thrones would cost you something around $1000 Cdn. I can't recall the math but its hardly impossible.
I don't have cable at the moment and haven't had it for most of the past 3 years - except when the Olympics are on or something similar - because the bulk of the programming is complete shit and not worth watching, and the few shows that I do consider worth watching are only available if I subscribe to specialty channel packages that are arranged to maximize Shaw's profits (although Telus is no better), not to be convenient to the customer. TV is simply not worth bothering with. Oh and of course I now no longer have to endure ads.
If I need to watch something, there are DvDs. In the end its far cheaper to download the content, or go buy the content, or take it out of the library than it is to sign up for cable TV.
Netflix and the iOS BBC app are a godsend for good programs. This is the way to go for the future IMHO.

The content producers are pricing themselves out of the market and making consuming their content so difficult that potential customers chose other means - sometimes illegally downloading that content. If it was priced effectively and conveniently a *lot* of those users would choose to pay for it. Instead they present as many obstacles to viewing their content as I can conceive possible.
Bad marketing strategy is bad and doomed to fail.

Re:Game of Thrones from theoatmeal (2)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324169)

f it was priced effectively and conveniently a *lot* of those users would choose to pay for it.

Indeed.

A typical series is 20 to 25 episodes.

There are plenty of series I would happily pay £2 per eposide to download it instantly and watch real time (1 episode per week). Of course, I would never pay £40-£50 to buy the boxed series, but £2 for a decent fraction of an evening's entertainment is excellent value.

To be able to pay £2 and even get full SD without too much compression would be great.

Oh and no DRM. I'm already paying, so I am by definition not a pirate.

And no stupid geographical restrictions and delays either.

One of the fun things about being a really big fan in the current age is the online communities.

Re:Game of Thrones from theoatmeal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324861)

I'm already paying, so I am by definition not a pirate.

If that definition held, most pirated content wouldn't exist.

Re:Game of Thrones from theoatmeal (1)

Hyperhaplo (575219) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324969)

I've ranted it before.. so won't go again.. but.. all I want is to but something once, be able to download it whenever I need to, and be able to play it whenever I want to.

One day it will be like that. Quite possibly first in the illegal realm, then later in the legal realm. Until then we just have to do what we can with what we have where we are.

$1000 Cdn? Geez. And I thought excess data charges were terrible

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324151)

Re: Steam.
VPN to the US for $5 per month and buy at their rates. First purchase you make saves more than enough compared to the AUS price.

Obviously this is against the ToS, but it's better than 2x game price. Further, only buy sale items, and check the price of sale items against other retailers. I've seen items for £14.99 on Steam which were under £10.00 on Amazon / Play. It's not always the cheapest, but it is often the most convenient.

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (1)

smash (1351) | about a year and a half ago | (#42326513)

Oh there are ways around it of course. That's not the point....

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324217)

whatever.

while you're playing games, I'm porking your sheila in the next room.

She likes it hard and deep.

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (1)

alen (225700) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324223)

Ten to one odds its your shitty government passing protectionist laws and high taxes

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324263)

Stop moaning about download pricing. You're on /., use a US proxy service for your purchases.

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325869)

"If I want games off steam, often,I have to pay up to 90 US for a release title. Not steam's fault."

It's hardly restricted to new releases. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is still $90 on the Australian steam store. (Currently $20 in the US). That game is now over 3 years old.

Activation sets initial game prices, then never revises them downwards on the Australian steam store. It's cheaper in bricks and mortar stores, though not by much. It seems the local distributor doesn't believe that games lose value as they age.

I liked Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, MW2 and MW3 have been no sale because of this BS.

See also: http://www.steamprices.com/au/topripoffs (If it has zero results, check the "compare with" at the top right is correct for your location)

Re:To the coming onslaught of obnoxiousness.. (1)

EvilIdler (21087) | about a year and a half ago | (#42328527)

I don't buy music software from people who do regional pricing AND awful DRM ;)

Ableton give me dollar prices (and dual-platform licenses!), PreSonus show local currency at the current exchange rate. Apple charge US prices+VAT for Logic, and recalculate the tier prices on their app stores now and then. I don't recommend supporting a company which charges such wildly different prices in different regions. There's no one company with a choke hold on DAWs :)

Steam is generally good, but I've just stopped supporting regional pricing there. Valve's own aren't so bad, but they're not exactly releasing new titles frequently. I'm using skeevy game key sites for bigger games. ShopTo also have a few Steam games in their download section, at much more reasonable prices than Steam itself.

TV? I haven't used a real TV in over a decade. It's been all torrents and proxies for other services. Netflix is fairly acceptable once it thinks you're in the US, and the same services that enable this make many previously locked websites suddenly available :)

As long as people are being treated differently they'll be using methods illegal or in the grey zone to get content. The big media companies need to do something about licensing procedures, since it clearly is too hard now. Over a year of negotiations to add another country? HBO Nordic delayed by several months already? Not even when they own all their content is it possible to add a region. Or even a single country. I don't think the problem is technical.

Sign me up (3, Interesting)

oodaloop (1229816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323765)

Do they have service in eastern USA?

Waiting for NBN and then signing with iiNet (2)

asifyoucare (302582) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323817)

I'm waiting for NBN (national broadband network) availability in my area. I will use iiNet as the retailer because I want an ISP that treats me as a CUSTOMER, a customer to be valued, and not sold down the river after the slightest legal threat by big media. Who knows what other demands those other ISPs are complying with, against the interests of their customers.

I don't care if they cost a little extra. Being treated properly is worth it to me, and also I don't mind supporting someone who is fighting the good fight.

Re:Waiting for NBN and then signing with iiNet (4, Funny)

asifyoucare (302582) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323833)

Oh, and fuck senator Conroy and his hairdresser.

And Nicola Roxon too... (1)

reluctantjoiner (2486248) | about a year and a half ago | (#42330841)

Seriously, what is it about the Attorney General's department that turns ordinary politicians into authoritarian arseholes?

FUCKING FREE SHIT !! AT A REASONABLE PRICE !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42323821)

Yeah, motherfuckas !! We want that shit for free, but at a reasonable price !1 But we still want that shit for free !! Motherfuckas !!

The content (1)

xushi (740195) | about a year and a half ago | (#42323959)

"freely available at a reasonable price."

How does that work out? Free as in open formats?

Thanks.

Re:The content (5, Insightful)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324037)

How does that work out?

Not laden with ungodly amounts of DRM and silly timing restrictions?

The trouble is that not only is pirated content free, it's also better, because of the lack of DRM, and lack of silly timing restrictions.

If you torrent, you get it *now* and can put it on a media server, transcode it for your phone, pause, skip the ads (as it were), etc etc.

If you pay, not only do you have to wait a lot longer, you also get a worse product for your troubles. I once purchased a DVD of Castle which was laden with some lame attempt at extra copy protection. Basically, they split the DVD files up into teeny slices. The results it that the DVD player would occasionally pause for a visible fraction of a second between some of the odder transitions and the forward and backwards seeking wouldn't work properly.

Nice.

So, I did wait, and I did pay, and I got treated like a complete crook and sold a heap of crap which was a far worse experience than if I had downloaded it.

Re:The content (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42325033)

So, I did wait, and I did pay, and I got treated like a complete crook and sold a heap of crap which was a far worse experience than if I had downloaded it.

Even better, if you live in one of the countries where ripping the DVD is illegal even if you have a legal right to format shift, because the act of circumventing the protection is itself illegal regardless, then while you can fix the problem by ripping to a file, you can't legally do so.

Re:The content (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325037)

Did you return it?

Really, we need to return media/games/whatever we buy and feel wasn't worth the money because of DRM or similar shit.
If they don't want to refund it, loudly tell them you'll never buy anything like that again or anything they offer again.

If we can do this enough, it will go into some statistic somewhere or maybe reach some authoritative figures ears and it may influence what products we get next.
If we don't make it clear we absolutely don't like that DRM, the idea that DRM scares away customers won't even come to their minds.

Re:The content (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324041)

Freely available as in no more "This content is unavailable in your country,which we get whenever we try to use something like hulu

Re:The content (1)

lexa1979 (2020026) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324055)

"freely available" as in "available from/for any country, over any TCP/IP connection and at the same price everywhere since it's a downloadable content" ?

Re:The content (1)

Farmer Tim (530755) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324057)

I suspect it means free from geographic or other artificial restrictions, unlike the currently available QuickFlix download service, which is a bit of a joke.

Re:The content (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324061)

My take on this is that 'Freely' does not mean 'Free' but abailable without the silly restrictions that Hollywood puts on shows.
This could be related to DRM but equally well to the artificial delays that they impose on stuff being broadcast around the world.
That delay does nothing IMHO but increase the risk that the show/film will be pirated for the markets where it isn't being shown yet.
IMHO, it should also mean not stopping people from outside the USofA from legitimaly purchasing the show/movie from US Sites.

'Reasonable Price' means not using an exchange rate of $1 = 1GBP and then adding VAT to it.

Re:The content (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324491)

Free as in no restriction systems, no country codes, no gouging, no differences in release dates between regions, etc.

freely available at a reasonable price (1)

portablejim (1538997) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324175)

...and at the same time as the rest of the world. Social media is big enough that a delay is really noticeable.

Note: Please don't talk about the Hobbit film. It releases for us on the 26th December 2012. (thankfully not in December 2013)

Re:freely available at a reasonable price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324563)

That's unfortunate. Your wait will be well worth it.

What BS.. (0)

SuperDre (982372) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324191)

what are 'reasonable' prices? In my opinion the prices the ISP asks aren't reasonable themselves, but that's just my OPINION, they have the right to ask anything they want as it's their product.. Just like content is the product of those entertainmentcompanies, they created/put up the money so they can decide what prices are asked, not some moron who thinks he can put his will onto others.. Clearly people are interested in the content otherwise they wouldn't consume them, but remember, all content is still just a luxury product, if you think the price is too high, then leave it be, but don't go 'stealing' it. You can always wait until it's a more reasonable price or on the radio/tv..
and in this case, the ISP is just a big hypocrit, as they profit from all the need for content, because without that content most people didn't really need such speedy connections..

Re:What BS.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324315)

Bullcrap. If you don't want people getting content for free, then offer reasonable terms. Adding an entirely unreasonable markup on prices without reason is hardly going to sway users away from free and more convenient ways of obtaining said content. Go troll someplace else.

Re:What BS.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324379)

Well, if your goal is to make a larger number of people actually buy your product, then lowering your price is one thing you could try. Actually making your product available to potential customers is another one.

The reality seems to be that if you don't make it simple for potential customers to buy your product, you open yourself up to more copyright infringement than you otherwise would; no amount of insults or arguing with pirates will change that.

Offer negotiation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325227)

Instead of you setting a price, offer a price and accept a counteroffer.

If you, the seller, cannot agree with the buyer on a price, then either you cave in and sell it anyway or the buyer caves, or the transaction doesn't happen.

However, at the moment, the price is the price set by the seller and no negotiation is available.

THAT is why you don't know what a "reasonable price" is: you aren't asking for one, only claiming a price YOU want, not what the customer wants to pay.

Shema Yisrael! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42326123)

> content is the product of those entertainment companies, they created / put up the money so they can decide what prices are asked

Exactly! In fact, those entertainment companies (Hollywood, Broadway) were all founded, are still owned and governed by jewish investors. Pirating is therefore equal to robbing jews, which is an antisemitic crime. Hurting jews is hurting YHWH himself, because they are his chosen tribe! Protestant christians are supposed to respect jews like their older brothers, so why do the gentiles of America pirate? Please repent.

(One should also not pirate asian popular media, because that one is full of underage sexual perversion and leads to a sinful moral fall. Japan and Korea are full of sick minds, because they have not received the wisdom of the Ten Commandments.)

It isn't their job (1)

NynexNinja (379583) | about a year and a half ago | (#42324295)

It isn't the ISP's job to do deep packet inspection on their customers, nor is it their job to restrict or remove their customers access to their pipe. I would say in the case of public safety it might be reasonable, but not because a third party doesn't like what the customer is downloading? Be real.

Re:It isn't their job (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324429)

I would say in the case of public safety it might be reasonable

What, you mean like the TSA? Freedom > safety, in my books.

fuc4er (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42324841)

OpenBSD. How many GAY NIIGERS FROM gave the BSD

Media companies have awakened a sleeping giant (1)

zerofoo (262795) | about a year and a half ago | (#42325013)

Here in the US, network providers have an enormous negotiating advantage when dealing with media companies. The one or two wires leading to your house are owned by the ISPs.

If media companies continue to turn the screws on ISPs, the ISPs can simply refuse to carry their content.

Think of the potential fall-out. Disney decides that Verizon isn't playing ball with regards to copyright enforcement. Disney makes unreasonable demands of Verizon and how they treat their customers. Verizon can simply stop distributing Disney's channels. The advertising and merchandising dollars that result from Phineas and Ferb would be sorely missed by Disney.

Let's be honest. If a carrier or two decides to make an example out of one of the content providers, there isn't much the content providers can do about it. There are only a couple of ways I can get TV and Internet. It's not like I can go out and get another ISP very easily.

Media companies better tread lightly here. They need the network operators to distribute their products. The network operators need us to keep paying the bill.

Re:Media companies have awakened a sleeping giant (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325321)

Disney owns ABC. ABC runs broadcast network station where network operators provides service. The government forces network operators to carry these broadcast stations. Disney says you can carry our ABC station only if you carry the Disney Channel, ESPN and other properties and force everyone to pay for them, and fuck you. No point in making a stand, so the network operator just passes on that fuck you.

Re:Media companies have awakened a sleeping giant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42326971)

The media companies would prefer that network providers drop their content. They want the sneaker-net back, where they can sell a new coppy of the same content to the same customer every time storage media change.

I've been saying this for years (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42325713)

When I worked for 2 different ISP's I repeated this mantra over and over. It's the responsibility of the rights holder to sell the product at a fair price so that people will want to use there services. You can't use ISP's to enforce your copyrights on bad products. ISP's don't have the manpower or money to act as the free gatekeepers of a corporations IP and should never be expected to.

The gaming industry came up with serials to manage online gameplay. The RIAA and MPAA need to understand that there tactics are doing everyone good (for the community) by driving people to make Indy projects that can be digitally shared for pennies on the dollar to millions of people. The business models of these outdated giants need to die and be replaced by something fair and open to the artists that produce the art.

Small wa company grown up (1)

smash (1351) | about a year and a half ago | (#42326431)

Thanks Iinet. It's good to see a small wa company do well and continue to have morals. Was a custome for years, currently with internode who are now Iinet owned anway. I remember one of the early Iinet user group meetings at a local Perth pizza joint. Come a long way.
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