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30 Days Is Too Long: Animated Rant About Windows 8

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the devil's-advocate dept.

Bug 1110

First time accepted submitter Funksaw writes "Back in 2007, I wrote three articles on Ubuntu 6, Mac OS X 10.4, and Windows Vista, which were all featured on Slashdot. Now, with the release of Windows 8, I took a different tactic and produced an animated video. Those expecting me to bust out the performance tests and in-depth use of the OS are going to be disappointed. While that was my intention coming into the project, I couldn't even use Windows 8 long enough to get to the in-depth technical tests. In my opinion, Windows 8 is so horribly broken that it should be recalled."

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Not again... (-1, Troll)

recoiledsnake (879048) | about 2 years ago | (#42353803)

The rants and negativity is getting old while there are tons of people who take a few minutes to get used to it and feel it's actually better.

Why not learn from a 3 year old how to use Windows 8?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlZgcAacIxU [youtube.com]

Or from a five year old?
http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-portugal-shows-the-simplicity-of-windows-8-in-a-different-way/ [microsoft-news.com]

Re:Not again... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353829)

Hey just because its easier to brainwash a child does not mean we should be attempting to brainwash ourselves.

Also 3 is way to young to be allowed electronics or access to IT/telecommunications. Not until 5 yrs old and only with supervision and seriously protective software installed (I want my kids to be expert A+ hackers, not 2cnd rate script kiddies)

Re:Not again... (4, Funny)

Russ1642 (1087959) | about 2 years ago | (#42354163)

My three year old got on my computer and sold my car, bought some drugs, and posted nude photos of herself on Facebook. But seriously, what's with the FUD over electronics and children? Get over yourself.

Re:Not again... (2, Insightful)

fredprado (2569351) | about 2 years ago | (#42353839)

No amount of ranting is enough in this matter. Windows 8 is trash.

Re:Not again... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353853)

Not conviced. From both design and functionality standpoints it's utterly horrible, and a kid isn't going to fix that.

Re:Not again... (5, Insightful)

cbiltcliffe (186293) | about 2 years ago | (#42354117)

No...what recoiledsnake means is this:

If you use a computer like a 3 year old, then Windows 8 is perfect. That includes splashy, bright coloured interfaces, and chunky buttons big enough that someone lacking good fine motor control can still click on them.

For anybody who actually uses a computer like an adult, though, it sucks rocks.

Re:Not again... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353863)

Yeah, the author's attitude is more than a little arrogant. You expect reasonable people to give your video a chance after speaking like that?

Yes I have used Windows 8, and while I am one of the hoards who loves the old start menu, apart from that change Win 8 is simply better. 7 was excellent, 8 has a few improvements over that.

Re:Not again... (4, Interesting)

cbiltcliffe (186293) | about 2 years ago | (#42354141)

So removing windowing, and requiring all programs to be full screen, so only able to run one program at a time, is an improvement to you?
This is Windows 1.01 level technology, not an improvement on Windows 7.

Re:Not again... (1, Insightful)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#42354169)

So removing windowing, and requiring all programs to be full screen, so only able to run one program at a time, is an improvement to you?

Yeah, that would be terrible... too bad Windows 8 does exactly none of that.

Re:Not again... (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354211)

too bad Windows 8 does exactly none of that.

Until you accidentally swipe the wrong way, and your desktop disappears and is replaced by a full-screen weather application.

Re:Not again... (-1, Troll)

murdocj (543661) | about 2 years ago | (#42354237)

You mean sort of the way I accidently hit something on my Mac and Firefox went full screen? Or you run a game on pretty much any computer and it goes full screen? Sounds like a horrific bug.

Re:Not again... (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#42354335)

and is replaced by a full-screen weather application.

Which can be run side by side with the desktop and other apps, and does not prevent any other applications from running. The fact that some subset of programs run fullscreen does not mean Windows 8 requires all programs run full screen, and only one program can run at a time. This would be like saying "Windows 7 removes windowing, and requires all programs to be full screen, so only able to run one program at a time" just because you run games in fullscreen mode.

In fact, even for the programs that run full screen (metro apps) they can run in the background simultaneously, and side by side.

Re:Not again... (0)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#42354293)

You've never used Windows 8, have you? I've had it for almost a month and I haven't used a single fullscreen app in... well, almost a month. I found them to be buggy, so I just boot straight to the desktop and use Start Menu Classic.

And even if you do use fullscreen apps, it still allows two apps side by side... it's not great, but it's still a far cry from Windows 1.01

Re:Not again... (2)

exomondo (1725132) | about 2 years ago | (#42354321)

So removing windowing, and requiring all programs to be full screen, so only able to run one program at a time, is an improvement to you?

You seem to be confused between Windows RT and Windows 8, the latter (which is what we are talking about) does not have the attributes you describe.

Re:Not again... (0, Troll)

mystikkman (1487801) | about 2 years ago | (#42353871)

This is reminding of Slashdot's lame attempts and FUD against Windows 7 with the fake benchmark shit and false claims of DRM.

Seriously, I know several people who actually like Windows 8 better.

Watch a couple of videos if you're lazy and learn some shortcuts and it's a better Windows 7 at the worst.

How to use Windows 8 in 4 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc [youtube.com]

Windows 8 Tutorial in 12 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1UxI5I_jo [youtube.com]

Re:Not again... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353967)

3 year old

five year old

I would expect them to be better at it. It was designed for them.

Re:Not again... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353971)

Why are you shilling for MS? How much do they pay?

Re:Not again... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353983)

It's getting old. This shill account might be pretty old (879048), yet just check the posting history. Not a single post not related to Microsoft.

Re:Not again... (1)

Cute and Cuddly (2646619) | about 2 years ago | (#42354013)

So, you are saying that we should have half chewed biscuits over the keyboard, drop or glasses or orange juice inside the CD Rom and hit the PC with a heavy Tonka truck? If we do it that way, a PC with Windoze 8 may be good to use as a brick in a couple of weeks, but I do prefer to put Linux on it.

Re:Not again... (5, Insightful)

Luke727 (547923) | about 2 years ago | (#42354027)

The problem is not that it's difficult to learn (though it is a bit of a shock at first); the problem is that some people just don't like it. You might be perfectly content with a touch-first tablet interface on your desktop, but Windows 8 will never touch any of my personal machines. That being said, I am still interested to try it out on a tablet device where many of the design decisions might actually make sense.

Re:Not again... (1)

Grave (8234) | about 2 years ago | (#42354109)

No, the problem is that people keep using it as if the touch interface is the only option. If you use it like you do Windows 7, it's actually a fantastic OS. Use the desktop, and treat the Start screen like a full-screen version of the Start menu. You don't need a Start orb to click on -- just hit the Windows key. I seriously cannot understand why Microsoft chose to market the Metro/Modern UI interface as the primary interface for the OS instead of easing people into it by treating that as a new Start menu (which is what it really is).

Re:Not again... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354185)

It's the primary interface because they will collect a 30% fee of the retail sales price of every program written for it. So obviously they want to coerce people into using it.

Re:Not again... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354227)

Microsoft needs to destroy Android or they will lose their monopoly pricing power, and the only way to do that is with pushing Windows Phone and it's Metro application stack. If the users see desktop first there's no reason for Metro apps to be developed, and with no applications, no reason to by WinPho.

Amnesia as you go through a doorway (5, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354257)

treat the Start screen like a full-screen version of the Start menu

And because it's full-screen, it all but encourages the user to forget what he's working on. Ever have amnesia as you go through a doorway [scientificamerican.com] ? The fact that the Start screen is full-screen is like that.

You don't need a Start orb to click on -- just hit the Windows key.

How are users who have been opening the Start menu with the mouse for a decade and a half expected to discover the Windows key?

Re:Not again... (0)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#42354193)

The problem is not that it's difficult to learn (though it is a bit of a shock at first); the problem is that some people just don't like it.

And how is that a problem? Just install a start menu replacement that you like and use the Desktop. What you're left with is an OS that is better than Windows 7 in every appreciable way from security, compatibility, performance, and resource consumption.

Re:Not again... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354051)

Because three- and five-year olds don't actually have to get any work done?

Re:Not again... (4, Informative)

LiquidHAL (801263) | about 2 years ago | (#42354063)

I've been using it. I don't like the metro UI, so I installed a tiny program I found on ninite.com called Classic Start, self-explanatory. It works, I don't interact with metro, everything behaves as expected. Before that I classified it as a minor annoyance. They made some poor design decisions, but I don't understand the tantrums and hyperbole, I do all my work in the browser or in programs and there's no change there. And the desktop is virtually identical to windows 7. MMC, powershell, command line, control panel are the same. It might be because I've always used keyboard shortcuts to navigate windows, I just don't understand the vitriol.

Re:Not again... (1)

rolfwind (528248) | about 2 years ago | (#42354067)

Just because little kids can use it doesn't make it a good idea.

Most kids are happy to get their blinkenlights and playing their games, they aren't demanding or advanced users in lots of ways. (Note: I fixed my nephews' and niece's computers more than once or set shit up. The old truism that all kids are prodigies at technology is annoying. Some of those computers were truly malware-infested-from-free-hello-kitty crapware shit boxes.)

Re:Not again... (0)

Keith111 (1862190) | about 2 years ago | (#42354069)

You guys must be doing something seriously wrong if you think Windows 8 is worse than 7... Windows 8, used properly, is superior in every single way to 7. By use properly I mean uninstall everything called an "app" and learn to use Windows+E and Windows+X keys combinations. Use start screen only to search for programs. Also avoid the store, because you can only buy "apps" there, not programs.

Soooooo... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354157)

I'm holding it wrong?

Re:Not again... (4, Insightful)

Arker (91948) | about 2 years ago | (#42354077)

Why would I want to use an interface designed for a 3 year old? Hmm? Come on.

Yes I use the command line and the function keys and I can fly around the thing when I have to. Doesnt change the fact it's just about the worst interface imaginable, and confuzzles the regular users to no end, resulting in them constantly calling me to figure out how to do the simplest of things. I am not saying previous windows interfaces were all that great, but in general people had gotten to the point of being accustomed to them at least. Breaking things for the sake of breaking things does not a good product make.

Re:Not again... (2)

some old guy (674482) | about 2 years ago | (#42354135)

I have no use for an OS or GUI designed for 3-year-olds.

Re:Not again... (4, Insightful)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | about 2 years ago | (#42354177)

If you can avoid metro, it's pretty usable.

But metro intrudes at annoying times for various routine tasks. Frustrating indeed. Showing how a child can perform cherry-picked tasks doesn't change this.

We're not 3 & 5 yr. old children/blank slates. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354181)

QUESTION: Why'd Microsoft attempt to shove something down folks' throats they didn't, & clearly DON'T, want (and the figures show that much backing me)?

* Answer me a another question: Why should I, or anyone else, have to learn anything new they didn't WANT IN THE 1st PLACE??

(We're all used to the Win9x style interface, there was nothing wrong with it @ all - so what was YOUR point???)

Understand this as well, per my subject-line above:

You're using "blank slates" in 3 & 5 yr. old children!

So - have you considered the rest of us are NOT "blank slates", & that we're already conditioned & used to something we've all used for, what?? 17 yrs. or more now???

Please... your links are comparing us to children who haven't gotten used to a damned thing yet.

E.G.-> Why don't you learn how to drive a crane to work instead of your car... oh, wait - what's that?? You aren't used to it??? What's the MATTER with you, boy!!!

APK

P.S.=> A cardinal rule of sales: You can't sell something people don't want... & they do NOT want to have to LEARN what they do not want to - get it? Good... now, try make Microsoft understand that, & thanks.

Above ALL else here - This, from me? It isn't "negativity"... it's just telling it how it is, & I'm probably 1 of a VERY SMALL MINORITY AROUND HERE (windows fans, vs. *nix folks)

... apk

have kids try working desktop and metro apps at th (2)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#42354225)

have kids try working desktop and metro apps at the same time.

MS will need to let you install metro apps out side of the app store and let up on some of the sand boxing as well.

The Sandboxing in the app store apps just get's in the way of many work flows.

Re:Not again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354267)

As this little girl knows, all Windows machines should be cleaned thoroughly [youtube.com] prior to first use.

Re:Not again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354295)

A [small] child does not use the computer the same way you or I do; less keyboard interaction (textual and shortcuts), less drag-and-drop between windows... The same way can be said about our non-techie relatives. Yet XP, Vista, and 7 preserved and even successively enhanced my basic workflow (Vista's deadly sins were resource hogging and excessive UAC prompts).

I'm not saying 8 is bad; just that a small kid launching apps and arranging viewports (tiles?) is not an entirely valid demonstration of usability.

Odd, it works perfectly fine for me. (1, Insightful)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | about 2 years ago | (#42353819)

Sounds like a user problem to me. Windows 8 is working just fine for me.

Re:Odd, it works perfectly fine for me. (1)

Tempestas (2625317) | about 2 years ago | (#42353925)

It is either a OHS error (Operator Head Space Error) or a ID 10 T Error. Take your pick. Is it perfect? Well I think it was maybe created by Microsoft so heck no. Haters are going to Hate.

Re:Odd, it works perfectly fine for me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354017)

Win 8 cant have ID 10 T's if its a touch screen metro interface! Such an improvement!

Re:Odd, it works perfectly fine for me. (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#42354137)

Why can't it have a ID 10T error>
Did you mean PEBKAC error?

Re:Odd, it works perfectly fine for me. (1)

evil_aaronm (671521) | about 2 years ago | (#42354259)

You're thinking PEBKAC. ID10T has no peripheral requirements.

Re:Odd, it works perfectly fine for me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354099)

And the rest of us remain thankful you're not in charge of designing a GUI. Unfortunately, someone with a similar mindset to yours was.

"Windows 8 is so horribly broken..." (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353825)

Nope.

Saw what he wanted to see. (3, Insightful)

pieisgood (841871) | about 2 years ago | (#42353827)

" Windows 8 is so horribly broken that it should be recalled."

Now, forgive me, but you can totally enter into windows 8 from a standard windows interface (as I understand it). That and, data shows, people are becoming familiar with it. Put that onto anecdotal evidence that younger individuals pick up the interface just fine and I'm inclined to think you knew what you thought before ever using windows 8.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (3, Informative)

Threni (635302) | about 2 years ago | (#42353873)

Yes, once you've seen what was called Metro before Microsoft discovered that they were going to have to give it another name, and you've googled for `uh..how do I do stuff on my computer like..uh..get the control panel up...shut it down...exit full screen mode on that ugly application` you'll find the Windows key, which allows you entry into a whole new front end, which is a little like Windows 7 only the stuff at the bottom of the screen is missing. You have to move the mouse around in the corners and the edges of the screen and usually the same stuff will appear that appeared last time you sort of moved your mouse around that part of the screen.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353901)

Was your point that you're completely retarded and unable to follow basic instructions? Because you managed to make it. There's literally a fucking tutorial that shows you how to access most of what you mentioned if not all.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (5, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354075)

There's literally a fucking tutorial that shows you how to access most of what you mentioned

How are new users of Windows 8 expected to discover that this tutorial exists before they end up accidentally opening weather and not knowing how to make it go away?

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (0)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#42354151)

Since every person I know with a windows 8 machine has no problem figuring anything out on their own, I don't see that as an issue.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354153)

It's part of OOBE, which usually works even with premade computers (like those sold by HP) and is the first thing that appears when you boot the operating system.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (3, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354309)

[The tutorial in the out-of-box experience of Windows 8] is the first thing that appears when you boot the operating system.

Is it displayed only when the PC's owner boots the operating system for the first time, or also when another user of the same computer boots the operating system for the first time?

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (1)

DavidRawling (864446) | about 2 years ago | (#42354311)

In this case, the tutorial appears the first time any new user logs in (be that domain or local). Need to find out how to kill it, actually, via GPO, or it'll drive me batty.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (3, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#42354231)

The tutorial plays the first time you log on to a new account. It tells you to move your mouse to any corner, and shows you the charms bar opening if you move the mouse to the top right. This gives you shortcuts for search, start, and settings. This accounts for everything the GP complained is hidden and confusing.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354127)

If an average computer user needs a tutorial to figure out how to navigate the 'desktop', it means your UI is not very discoverable.

An undiscoverable UI is a horrible UI.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354171)

By tutorial I mean a 10 seconds thing that shows you where the start menu is, how to access settings and how to power down the computer. Things that someone with an IQ of over 20 are still able to find out by themselves, so I'm sorry if you and Threni are really that dumb.

Re:Saw what he wanted to see. (5, Insightful)

Tom (822) | about 2 years ago | (#42354209)

Yes, people are amazingly adaptable.

That doesn't mean what they adapt to is any good. You can create the most horrible UI of all times, intentionally, and if you force them then people will learn to use it. Having to use it because of work or because you know nothing else is a kind of force.

I haven't used W8 yet, so I don't have an opinion. But I have used most other versions of windows, and the UI is pretty stupid, inconsistent and basically cobbled together. Always has been. Don't see why W8 would be any different all of a sudden.

Looks like a zero punctuation short (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353849)

This video shows that you just can't copy Yahtzee Croshaw without his motor mouth rambling, it just doesn't feel right :D

Captcha: copied :D

Re:Looks like a zero punctuation short (-1, Troll)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | about 2 years ago | (#42353959)

Its just like Yahtzee, minus the humor plus a big fat whining idiot.

Ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353851)

Glad we can ignore you and read someone else that is less biased about things.

Re:Ok (1)

Johann Lau (1040920) | about 2 years ago | (#42353993)

But can you ignore the goblin fart? Can you?!

Unusable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353875)

Tens of millions of licenses have been sold... I don't understand how you can claim that you didn't like it because you weren't used to the interface when you gave up on it immediately.

What else runs Windows applications? (5, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354107)

Tens of millions of licenses have been sold because there's no choice. One buys a PC with an operating system to view and edit files, and a lot of industries have standardized on file formats exclusive to applications that are in turn exclusive to Windows. Windows 8 is the only thing that sort of reliably runs these applications that Microsoft still sells for bundling with a new PC. If Windows 7 were still widely available, tens of millions of Windows 7 licenses would be sold instead. If application publishers made a point of supporting Wine, at least millions (if not tens of millions) of Xubuntu licenses would be sold instead.

Re:Unusable? (2)

plaukas pyragely (1630517) | about 2 years ago | (#42354275)

Happy user of Lenovo X1. Got it with Windows8 (no other option), played for 4 hours and installed Ubuntu. And since Windows for some reason showed me that there's only 65 gigs of free space left on my shiny new computer with 128Gb(Gib?) SSD I wiped windows cleanly (including recovery partition).

I also got a new Dell workstation at work. Not sure if it was managements fault or there is no choice but it came with Windows8, which was wiped immediately. Got it on VirtualBox now for IE testing which is about 1hr/month. I'm not sure if many of those millions had a choice.

Usability (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353877)

So if I have no problem using it, does that make you dumb, or just lazy?

This guy is an idiot (1, Informative)

jdastrup (1075795) | about 2 years ago | (#42353883)

I've been using it just. I put up with the NewUI instead of the Start Menu when I have to, but other than that, I spend 99.9% of the time on the desktop and it works just like Windows 7. I haven't used the NewUI/Metro Tiles/Apps or Store since the first day I installed it, and I have no plans to either.

Re:This guy is an idiot (1)

tywjohn (1676686) | about 2 years ago | (#42354073)

Same here. I have to use Windows at work and I'm on the desktop 99% of the time. I can't really see the benefit of Windows 8 over 7 at the moment though so I'm considering going back.

Re:This guy is an idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354221)

I can't really see the benefit of Windows 8 over 7 at the moment though so I'm considering going back.

Then conversely I assume you can't see the benefit of Windows 7 over 8. So why bother reinstalling Windows 7?

Actually you should wait for Windows 8 SP1, which should have a bunch of tweeks and fixes, before you decide to revert to Windows 7.

Re:This guy is an idiot (3, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#42354261)

I can't really see the benefit of Windows 8 over 7 at the moment though so I'm considering going back.

Why even bother going back? Just install a start menu replacement (one of dozens available), and you'll have a machine that looks and acts like Windows 7. You'll never even have to touch metro, as they disable hot corners and boot to desktop. Then you retain the performance, security, and new features in Windows 8, with all the benefits of Windows 7.

Re:This guy is an idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354213)

> This guy is an idiot because he doesn't use the software the same way I do.

I agree entirely. He's definitely an idiot because he has an opinion that differs from you, and that he tries to use the software as it was configured rather than configuring it to fit him. I mean, come on, the defaults are terrible in every application ever, right? The only reason they're defaults is so you'll change it, wasting your time.

Sigh (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353885)

Been using it for months. At first it is a bit odd, after awhile it is really not very different than Win7 other than being faster. Metro is cool IF you have a touch device. Otherwise it is kind of in the way.

Really? (3, Informative)

Lawrence_Bird (67278) | about 2 years ago | (#42353889)

I just finished building a budget pc to replace a dinosaur. I put the XP SP3 on and did a clean 'upgrade' to 8 Pro. After three days, I have to say I quite like it. I mostly use the desktop but flipflop to the metro stuff now and then too. Still a bit put off by lack of start button but I've not really gone too deep into the whole Win8 thing to find out all the short cuts and other features (I've not had to). BTW, my other OS on the machine is FreeBSD so hardly a rah rah MSFT guy. But I do think much of the hyperobole against it is misplaced.

Windows 8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353913)

Honestly, it seems like this guy just had a bone to pick. I've been using Windows 8 on my primary computer for a month. While I didn't like it at first, it took maybe a day to get used to it. Now I rarely ever venture into the Metro interface. To be frank, the shit is cake and people complain just to complain.

Cake (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354145)

Now I rarely ever venture into the Metro interface.

How do you prevent yourself from swiping the wrong way on your laptop's trackpad to accidentally bring up weather, as the video points out? And if the interface formerly known as Metro is something to be avoided, why was it made the default in the first place?

To be frank, the shit is cake

Is this in the sense of "let them eat cake" or "the cake is a lie"?

and people complain just to complain.

No, they complain because they can't change it back to what they know they can operate at least as efficiently.

One of the Best Usability Rants I've Ever Seen (4, Informative)

ios and web coder (2552484) | about 2 years ago | (#42353915)

It seems a bit over the top for the context, but it is well-done.

Re:One of the Best Usability Rants I've Ever Seen (0)

hort_wort (1401963) | about 2 years ago | (#42353995)

Agreed. This guy sounds like a techie Lewis Black. :)

Re:One of the Best Usability Rants I've Ever Seen (4, Informative)

ios and web coder (2552484) | about 2 years ago | (#42354121)

Unfortunately, he mispeld "Nielsen." [nngroup.com]

Those guys get upset when we don't spell write.

As someone who has done plenty of criticizing (and received it), I can say that we need to get our facts straight when we do it.

That said, I'm a HUGE proponent of usability. I think tecchies, as a species, tend to really suck at it (I include myself, there). I am constantly amazed at how "stupid" my users are.

Except...they can be doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers, teachers, etc. Real smart folks.

When a whole bunch of real smart folks make the same mistake, over and over again, then it's probably a real good idea to examine the usability of the interface.

This book [jnd.org] changed the way I view the world (Don Norman is Nielsen's buddy). Ever since I read it, I learned a new appreciation for human interface.

Serving a constituency that tends to take personal frustration and embarrassment out in rather pithy fashion [youtube.com] helps to keep me focused on making UX accessible.

Re:One of the Best Usability Rants I've Ever Seen (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#42354131)

A person who makes up and embellishes stories? yes, I agree.

Who? (1, Insightful)

mydn (195771) | about 2 years ago | (#42353931)

And who are you? "Those expecting me to..."; who was expecting you to do anything? You wrote about some OS releases 7 or 8 years ago, and now you didn't even write anything up, you made an animated video?
I'm supposed to care about this guy why?

First World Problems (2, Insightful)

KiwiSurfer (309836) | about 2 years ago | (#42353933)

I have been using Windows 8 for the last few weeks and it seems to work just as well as Windows 7 did on the same machine. I suspect most of the issues the OP is having is just due to change anxiety due to for example the new Metro interface. Metro does take a while to get used to but like the ribbon it grows on you after a while. I think there are better things to rant about than Windows 8 to be honest.

Re:First World Problems (4, Insightful)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about 2 years ago | (#42353997)

The ribbon is a horrible UI design. At least with menu (bars) you can SEE ALL your choices. WIth the ribbon if your window width is too small you don't. It also completely sucks that you can't customize it like you could with a REAL tool bar.

With that said I actually like the Ribbon on OS X Office because I have BOTH -- menu bars AND ribbon. Forcing users to only work ONE way tells me the UI designer was an retard who doesn't understand HOW people use computers.

Re:First World Problems (2, Interesting)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#42354119)

Ribbon are incredibly intuitive. I see non computer people understand them immediately.
People who can't think beyond what is staring them in the face may have some issues.

Re:First World Problems (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#42354149)

At least with menu (bars) you can SEE ALL your choices. WIth the ribbon if your window width is too small you don't.

Ribbon starts removing functions from view when the windows is less than 1024 pixels wide (depending on the specific ribbon. Most are much less than this). According to stat counter, this accounts for about 15% of internet users.

Further, with menu bars, you can see all the menu options, just as you can in a ribbon (e.g. File, Edit, Insert etc. in a menu bar vs. Home, Inset, Design etc. for the Word ribbon). The menu entries within the menu headings are equivalent to the functions on the ribbon. Within these menu entries are further nested lists and flyout windows, which are always hidden no matter the resolution. So while the menu bar might be better for 15% of users, it's worse for 85%.

Finally, in the menu bar system, tool bars are also a interface common item. These also typically hide functions as the window size decreases.

It also completely sucks that you can't customize it like you could with a REAL tool bar.

Ribbons are completely customizable in Office 2010 and above. You can even create your own ribbons. In Windows 8 ribbon and Office ribbons, you also get a quick access toolbar to pin items. The Windows 7 explorer shell did not allow these customizations.

Re:First World Problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354215)

Toolbars have a "show the rest of the buttons" thing on them, no clue whether ribbons also have that or not.

Re:First World Problems (2)

benjfowler (239527) | about 2 years ago | (#42354251)

I beg to differ. I think the Ribbon is a very clever piece of design, apart from how they mix nouns and verbs.

Actions get grouped logically, and bigger buttons are bound to more common buttons. Going the other way, the size of the button gives cues to how important that function is.

Re:First World Problems (1)

bakes (87194) | about 2 years ago | (#42354305)

I agree, a lot of the pain described in the video IS just due to change anxiety.

He does make some good points though. There are no visual cues on how to pull up the 'charm bar', get to the control panel, and close metro apps. Sure, all of those things are easy enough once you know how to do them, but it takes experimentation by moving the mouse around a bit (or poking the touchscreen in the right place) to find them. It shouldn't be that hard.

Derrr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42353989)

You're not technically adept if you have trouble with Windows 8. Sorry, but it's true. There is literally no difference in desktop mode other than the re-location of a few Control Panel options, and the Metro apps are like any tablet/phone OS; they're big, take up the whole screen and generally don't have the same flexibility as apps in Desktop mode. You have two options for apps, not particularly complicated.

Re:Derrr (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354173)

There is literally no difference in desktop mode other than the re-location of a few Control Panel options

That and 2. the complete removal of the ability to display the Start menu on top of the desktop, and 3. the risk of accidentally activating Metro by swiping the wrong way.

spelling (1)

defective_warthog (776271) | about 2 years ago | (#42354003)

whilst

Whta an idiot (1, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#42354101)

in short:
"It's not what I am use to so I won't bother with a in depth analyses that may not support my bias."

For a guy who "learned Linux"... (2, Informative)

Rossman (593924) | about 2 years ago | (#42354103)

He's not real bright.

You can pretty much use Windows 8 just like Windows 7, just the "start menu" is now fullscreen. Press the windows key, start typing what you want, bingo.

Re:For a guy who "learned Linux"... (5, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#42354201)

You can pretty much use Windows 8 just like Windows 7, just the "start menu" is now fullscreen.

Which is exactly the problem. You lose conveyance: there's no obvious way to discover how to open the Start menu with the mouse. And you lose context: opening the Start menu completely covers up the application you're using,

But it's a lot easier than punch cards (5, Insightful)

rasper99 (247555) | about 2 years ago | (#42354129)

Some of us started on paper tape and punch cards. Windows 8, Unity, whatever. It's not going to stay the same forever. Cry me a river!

There's only one problem with Windows 8... (1)

tmach (886393) | about 2 years ago | (#42354183)

...from a usability standpoint; and as everyone has pointed out a million times, it's the lack of some type of Start menu. It just doesn't make sense to have to completely leave the desktop whenever you want to launch another application. The silly corners aren't even that big of a deal (although they work much better in a tablet environment than on a desktop).

Win8 was obviously built for a touch screen. Microsoft sees things headed in that direction and decided to make that the primary focus. The desktop gets what feels like a "port".

It's sad too, because other than that Win8 works really well. And it really could have been the perfect desktop. Picture this: You boot into Metro. That's perfect for people who just want to check email or a quick look at the news or weather or what have you. It's good for mouse and awesome for touch screen. When you have serious work (or gaming) to do, you click the "desktop" icon and boom, you have your actual desktop. I mean a real desktop, with its own menu for launching applications. If you want to go back to the Metro it could be a hot corner or even a right-click option. Whatever.

The point is, if you're in the middle of something and need to launch, say, a calculator it's just silly to have to leave the desktop to do it. Sure, you could clutter things up putting the icons everywhere but who wants to do that? I get why MS wanted this for its tablet (how is the Surface working out for you, by the way?) but it seems just plain lazy to not have a true desktop version.

I'd imagine that someone will come up with a mod that essentially adds it back (actually, there already is one, although all it does is put metro in a window on the lower right of the screen where the Start menu would be--not ideal, but it shows people are thinking about it) or maybe even MS will realize that it's best to give people what they want.

But then, everyone knows you skip every other version of Windows anyway.

Re:There's only one problem with Windows 8... (1)

tmach (886393) | about 2 years ago | (#42354247)

Okay, I forgot all about classic-shell. Use that and it solves the vast majority of Windows 8's problems. Figures the open source community would solve that one.

I still say it's lazy on MS part, though.

It's not Vista (5, Insightful)

stox (131684) | about 2 years ago | (#42354219)

Coming from someone who has had a deep and long dislike of Microsoft, Windows 8 is not that bad. Metro is half baked and feels like it was tossed in at the last moment. Other than that, I have had less issues with Windows 8 than its predecessors.

Now then, what were they thinking with Metro? I have no idea. It feels half assed, and adds no value. The screen looks like someone's idea for webcasting push technology from the late 1990's.

I felt stupid... (5, Interesting)

benjfowler (239527) | about 2 years ago | (#42354223)

Just out of interest, I walked into a PC World store to check out the new touch-screen PCs running Windows 8.

I timed myself: I was sitting there trying to work out how to do the gesture to get the Start screen. 90 seconds later, I simply gave up.

Windows 8, even on high-spec hardware with multitouch displays is completely unintuitive, completely undiscoverable, clunky, and amateur-looking.

I am GOBSMACKED, that Microsoft claimed that they've put a million user-hours into usability testing.

It'll snow in Hell before I put my hand in my pocket to upgrade.

Dunno... (5, Informative)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#42354233)

There's inevitably going to be fans for any OS, even windows ME.

Since we have a Windows 7 slate that I really wanted to upgrade (read: make usable, as 7 is pants on a slate) daughter and I went to an Office Despot that had Win8 running on a big touch screen monitor, and I tried to get it to do stuff. Never touched Win8 before, but had worked on most previous Windows operating systems, (starting with 3.1, 3.51, 95, 98 SE, NT 4, 2000, ME (shudder), XP (still using it) and 7, plus experience with server 2000 and 2008) how hard could it be?

I massaged the screen for about ten minutes and couldn't get it to do anything useful. Oh, you can touch a tile and something happens, but it's easy to get into a mode where it's not at all obvious how to get out. GUIs, especially touch GUIs, should have visual cues on how to navigate, or at very least do things in consistent ways.

After awhile, daughter pushed me aside, as she has experience with Windows 7, Android and iOS on touchscreen, she wanted to take a crack at it. She figured out how to get out from where I had gotten stuck, but not much else after another ten minutes of pawing at the thing. Like 7, there seems to be little cabalistic gestures one has to learn to perform certain actions in 8, and they don't seem to be similar to what you had to do in 7. We finally gave up.

Mind you, I'm sure it's possible to learn Windows 8. The point is, it's not at all obvious how to use it.

Sort of agree (1)

Georules (655379) | about 2 years ago | (#42354265)

I don't like the fact Win8 has two "modes" and hidden context/UI, but frankly, being a VIM user, I don't think I have the right to make that complaint.

Which is why I'm not an early adopter! (2)

eagee (1308589) | about 2 years ago | (#42354269)

Seriously, there's a lot that's broken about Windows 8 right now, but I'm willing to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt long term. I'm certainly not going to upgrade until they've fixed a lot of their poor UX decisions, but I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out by the next version. Microsoft "Window" is a very apt analogy at the moment, but I'm putting my money on this being a success long term.

Say what you will, (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42354279)

...But I found this entertaining and pretty accurate. But hey, I have no connection to Microsoft. For all the guys calling this man an idiot, well, that's just idiotic. He's clearly no idiot; just doing quite a good job at a well-deserved rant about a grotesque product. It sure beats 20 minutes of jabbing pins into a Billy doll, which I'm sure many are doing or should be, just in case it has an effect.

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