Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

GNU Hands Out Trisquel At a Microsoft Store

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the alternative-to-solid-color-rectangles dept.

GNU is Not Unix 274

alexanderb writes "Remember GNU's Windows 8 launch trick or treat in October, where Free Software Foundation activists handed out gratis copies of the free (as in freedom) system Trisquel GNU/Linux? Well, GNU returned for a Microsoft store's 'Tech for Tots' session on December 20th in Boston, MA. Like in October, the activists (accompanied by a gnu) handed out gratis copies of Trisquel GNU/Linux — a free alternative to Microsoft's new operating system, Windows 8."

cancel ×

274 comments

Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365213)

Every new computer at the store includes Windows, so you have to pay for it even if you don't want it.

(Yes, I know you can build your own computer, but most people don't).

Re:Ignoring the problem. (4, Funny)

Sir_Sri (199544) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365281)

No, the problem is that they're trying to compete with windows 8.

The best way to compete with windows 8 is let people try it.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (3, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365299)

True, but every new Linux user will start demanding either that the OEMs stop bundling Windows, find one more amenable to their requests, or they'll start building their own boxes.

It also means that each new Linux user isn't buying MS Office, using IE, or all the other bits and bobs that Microsoft also sells.

You gotta eat that elephant one bite at a time, yanno?

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1, Troll)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365441)

Then you need to give up on the Microsoft store, and focus on corporate consumers and IT admins, because those are the people who keep MS alive. MS at the consumer level is a joke, no one WANTS their product, it's just the path of least resistance. Get it out of the corporation and your task is complete, but IT admins are well and truly sold on ActiveDirectory and their ability to micromanage settings on user machines at an individual basis. Sometimes I can't argue with them either, as users really are retarded sometimes.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (3, Insightful)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365565)

I'm a sole developer in my shop (in addition to being our Linux server admin). My workstations all run Debian and I'm about as pro-GNU as you can get. With that said, if it weren't for Active Directory keeping our end users from random acts of jackassery, our entire organization would have degraded to a Mad Max-esque wasteland where roving bands of IT geeks roam the cubicle ranges keeping everything in check manually.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (4, Insightful)

hairyfish (1653411) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365581)

To beat any incumbent you need to offer better products. MS isn't just a Windows desktop, it's the server, terminal services, AD, DNS, DHCP, Exchange, SQL, IIS, .Net, Sharepoint and a whole hoard of other stuff that works, and works nicely together with very little effort. As much as the Linux fanbase would this not be true, there is no linux solution that even comes close to this. Sure you could cobble together a bit of this and a bit of that that sort does something similar, but it takes 10x as much effort, only has 1/2 as many features, and is a nightmare to support or troubleshoot when it breaks (or a new guy comes onboard and has to figure out your homebrew mess you created.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (5, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365947)

Exactly. Hell look at how Linux as an "OS" is managed, you got fifty billion little fiefdoms, NONE of which are ruled by one grouped or even really has to talk to one another on a regular basis, and then all these "little programs written by little groups with their own agendas" get slapped together and called an OS.

Now this works just great on a SERVER for several reasons. 1.- Removing the GUI and sound subsystems cuts out a LOT of complexity and overhead, 2.- You can "mix and match" to build a system that is right for the jobs your company is doing, 3.- MSFT prices itself very stupidly in that market, with Windows SBS costing $400 a pop, so 4.- Even after hiring an admin at 6 figures you are still gonna be ahead in a large org by the money you save not dealing with the mess that is Windows Server licensing.

But on the desktop this is exactly reversed, you HAVE to have a well built GUI and sound subsystem and frankly X-Server is a crashy mess, and Pulse is a bad joke, the users WILL NOT put up with CLI fiddling and "open up Bash and type" like a server admin would, and finally the cost for most users is practically zero because with trialware the OEMs end up getting windows Home and Basic for free, maybe even make a few bucks which they can use to lower the price.

So I'm sorry but Linux just isn't in the same league as OSX and Windows when it comes to ease of use, user friendliness, stability..its just not even in the same ballpark. I would argue that "free as in freedom" all volunteer doing your own thing nature that so many in the Linux community prizes so highly also insures that it never ever will be up to the task of standing in the same arena with OSX and Windows, because you just can't have the level of QA and QC with everybody doing their own thing. The X-Server guys don't listen to the DE guys who don't listen to the Pulse guys and so on so all it takes is ONE of these groups to change a pointer in the right spot and the whole thing falls down like a house of cards. Go look up the rant Thom that runs OSNews had when he tried to watch a video while chatting and the whole system crashed, its THAT kind of shit, probably caused by the video player team expecting something to be A when the X-Server team changed it to B, that gives Linux a bad rep.

I have said before and I'll say again not a single distro can pass the "Hairyfeet challenge" yet, not one. We take one of the user friendly distros like Ubuntu or PCLOS and install it side by side with Vista, along with a range of average software. We make sure ALL the drivers are working, then we update both to current. The vista machines WILL have 100% working drivers and software, the Linux system? Will be a mess. heck in just the last 5 years we've seen the devs gut both the DEs and the audio and wireless subsystems so good luck getting those systems to update without making a mess.

Until one can pass the Hairyfeet Challenge with flying colors, where every driver and every program still runs without a single forum hunt? Then I'm sorry but your product simply isn't in the same league, end of story.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366165)

Have you used Microsoft Windows or Mac OS X? Because you seem to be describing those operating systems. Not GNU/Linux.

GNU/Linux is by far easier to use if you have even the slightest clue.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366413)

I don't have the time or inclanation to bother correcting everything that's wrong with this post, but here's a few facts that run counter to your inane babbling:

*Windoze crashed constantly when I used it. The acronym BSOD is a household name, because of that "stability" on the MS desktop.

*OSX is a Unix based OS. It is, by its very design, in the same league as Linux.

*Linux doesn't have "a bad rep."

*Your statements are very biased and inaccurate, especially when saying that a Vista machine will run 100% perfectly.

I'm out of time, but i'm sure a bunch of people will pick-up where I left off and correct the rest of the fallacies in your post.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (3, Interesting)

B1oodAnge1 (1485419) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366557)

Find me a windows system where every driver works without a single forum hunt... You're delusional. I use windows almost exclusively, mostly because I game a lot, and I have problems requiring forum hunting all the time.
Just today I've spent ages trying to get this stupid usb headset driver to work in 7x64. Apparently Rosewill still hasn't made it easy after however many years 7 has been out.

A normal user using Ubuntu or another well crafted distro will have a computer exactly as messed up as their windows computer would be.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1, Troll)

Eirenarch (1099517) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365653)

I once had to write 40 pages in Open Office. The next day I ordered MS Office. I'd like to apologize to friends and family for polluting their machines with Open Office. I swear it looked like a good idea before I actually used it.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365913)

Care to expand on that?

Re:Ignoring the problem. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365931)

Use Open Office, it's self explanatory. Google Docs works better.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366011)

No, it isn'. I've written 15 pages in OO.o with no issue. It takes keyboard input, and produces unicode characters on the screen. Exactly what isn't working as stated?

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366039)

Google Docs works better.

I do a lot of my work while riding the bus with no Internet access. Does the offline part of Google Docs work better than Open Office or LibreOffice?

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366153)

Yes.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366201)

I use LibreOffice every day. It works just fine. Every time I open Microsoft Office I'm baffled by the stupidity of Microsoft's changes.

What worked OK was MS Office 95/97. Nothing since then has worked well if you ask me.

They added activation headaches, hidden menus (I believe that was a 2000 versions), and then totally screwed up 2007. Then they fixed some issues in 2010 although largely left the major problems in tact (ribbon, but they did bring back file).

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1)

Eirenarch (1099517) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366125)

When I did this (late 2010) Open Office had some weird undo behavior when you had pictures in the document. You would do something like increase a font which would move pictures to new pages. Say you don't like it you press undo but things won't return to the previous state. It turns out that pictures had some kind of anchor or something that would not be affected by undo. Office 2010 was coming out and it had that killer live preview feature. On one side I had Open Office that could not do proper undo and on the other I had MS Office that could change formatting and undo it just by moving the cursor through the menu. In addition Open Office crashed when I had more than one OO program open. I wanted to work with Writer and Draw at the same time but it seems like a shared component or something caused them to crash.

Maybe things are much better now but I never bothered to check and probably never will.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365951)

I once had to write 40 pages in MS Office. The next day I learned LaTeX. I'm not apologising.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1, Interesting)

SteveFoerster (136027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365955)

All other things being equal I suppose I'd prefer Micosoft Office to LibreOffice. But when price and freedom are considered, I'm happy with LibreOffice.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365991)

It really is awful. Difficult to pin down exactly what the problem is but generally 'unintuitive' sums it up. The usual argument against that is that people have been 'trained' to use Microsoft Office so it seems more useable. But that's not it - I've happily used multiple versions of Word (Powerpoint, etc.), made a happy transition to the ribbon (sorry) as well as used Pages, Keynote and Numbers on Mac.

Open Office is just bad software.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366003)

You got lucky friend, try making one of the bog standard DBs that SMBs use every day in Base and then get back to me. I tried making a copy of what I consider to be about the most bog standard DB you'll ever see is, the contact and customer info DB and the thing crashed more than it ran and corrupted the DB no less than 4 times before i gave up on it and consigned LO to be strictly for my home users, where little Billy is making a book report or grandpa is making a shopping list.

Because if you think LO Writer is painful you ain't seen nothing until your try Base and Calc, the OO.o/LO teams give writer the most love so if you think writer is bad then you haven't messed with the others, they are MUCH worse. In fact I'm seriously thinking about dropping LO altogether even for my home users and just pointing them at Google Docs, there they can do what tasks they have without messing with the horrible mess that is LO. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the LO guys as Sun basically let OO.o rot for several years so I figure its gonna take them a couple of years just to clean out the cruft and make it modern and modular, but that don't help my users now and right now LO just doesn't cut the mustard, which is why you saw governments like Germany going back to MS Office, because its really not in the same league as even MS Office 2K.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1)

Eirenarch (1099517) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366147)

This happened before LibreOffice. I did not use anything too advanced but when I used Draw and Writer at the same time something crashed bad :) I don't even want to think about Base.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366023)

This is the truth. FOSS often sucks with its default OOBE. Often requires hacking config files and such just to get it to work even close to commercial software.

The only benefit is zero cost, but not much more.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366031)

Is this the best MS can do these days? Paid PR shills awaiting their chance on forums like Slashdot.

The tragedy is this. Even haters of MS have to agree XP and Win7 were fine operating systems, and a good basis to build a future business. Win8, and Microsoft's rush to clone every aspect of Apple's business models are running MS into the ground several years earlier than any sensible analyst thought inevitable.

When Android releases a desktop version sometime in 2013, running on the A15 generation of ARM chips from all the important SoC players, Microsoft and Intel are essentially finished. These two old dinosaurs won't disappear overnight, but their age of absolute dominance is ended, and all they have to look forward to is terminal decline.

Yes, today you can't do better than a Windows platform for serious, or heavy duty gaming apps. This situation wasn't created by MS, but users of windows. These same creative coding types have no incentive to stay with braindead Microsoft now.

CP/M and the Z80 once ruled all powerful too. A simple change in technology, not even 1% as important as the rise of ARM, destroyed the dominance of both almost overnight.

If MS had even one clue today, we wouldn't get the flood of shill posts seen here. The first half of 2013 will see 'blood in the water' at MS, as the company enters full panic mode. It will try to convince itself that it can turn around its fortunes in the same way as when it abandoned the interactive CDROM for the Internet (Prior to this, MS had bet the bank on the Internet being a bust, and the optical disk being the future). However, when MS throws its full weight behind ARM (as Apple will too), and knifes Intel multiple times in the back, its actions will simply strengthen the market success of Google (Android) and Apple. There is no room for a third successful player.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366237)

I have written descent sized projects on Open/LibreOffice(.org) and never had a problem with it. What were your problems with it exactly? My only problem so far has been when i tried opening a MSWorks document and a recent bug with long load times for .RTF documents in LibreOffice.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366243)

Not sure what the problem is.

I've written a 100+ page book with OpenOffice 2.x without any problems.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (5, Insightful)

OhPlz (168413) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365495)

Every new computer at the store includes Windows, so you have to pay for it even if you don't want it.

That must suck for people buying Macs.

Face it, the demand isn't there. That's the problem that's being ignored. Big names like Dell have tried to market systems with alternative operating systems, but the sales don't justify it. I can't see how sending two guys and a furry to intercept shoppers is going to help either. If anything, having people see them getting hauled off by security is going to put a negative image in people's minds.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1)

DaHat (247651) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365765)

If I had mod points... they would be yours. Well said.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365863)

Big names like Dell have tried to market systems with alternative operating systems

They haven't, really. They make half-hearted attempts and go back and forth with Microsoft on it. In the server land it's another deal entirely but in the consumer world, Dell is pretty much balls-to-the-wall Microsoft.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365975)

look, you're pretty much saying 'BUT THEY DIDN'T DO ENOUGH' because they should completely abandon a component of the business model they've built for years because you just HAPPEN to like linux. Most who use it, don't. If they had, it would have caught on more and they would have been able to transition, but they didn't sell. It's that simple.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (2)

OhPlz (168413) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366253)

You admit that Dell treats the server market differently. Why is that? It's not because Microsoft has surrendered in the server market. If anything, Windows Server 2012 shows a lot of effort to compete in that space. Dell handles multiple environments in the server market because that's where the demand is. Dell's number one job is to make money. Linux makes money in the server realm.

Why is the consumer market different? It's because Dell's consumer customers are balls-to-the-wall Microsoft, even if they don't realize it. They want a PC that works like those their peers have and is a natural migration from their last PC. PC manufacturers targeting the consumer mass market aren't going to want to spend a fortune to generate demand for another operating system. This makes me think back to when IBM went to great lengths to get OS/2 into homes. It didn't work, and they went at it "full-hearted". It's a high risk in a market where the margins are razor thin. The slightest misstep can cost big time.

The fact that I cringe even using the term "Linux" doesn't help. I'm sure there's a small army of geeks that are ready to say it's the wrong term to use. Consumers are going to walk away if you start battles like that. That's not even getting into issues such as KDE vs Gnome vs Unity or this distro versus that distro and so on.

Re:Ignoring the problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366267)

There is demand. The problem is it is too complicated to mix and match. Apple's stuff sorta works because they have are not trying to sell Microsoft. Consumers get that. Consumers already are presented with too many decisions. Dell can't sell GNU/Linux. To the extent they offer it the solutions suck.

ThinkPenguin.com's the only company which is even offering a complete solution right now. Support, accessories, computers, etc.

The next closest competitors are Dell and maybe System76. Neither of which understand the problems behind shipping hardware dependent on non-free drivers/firmware. Consumers don't understand the problems with getting such hardware. However they do run into problems later and blame GNU/Linux. It's not GNU/Linux that is the problem. It's stupid companies, uninformed consumers, and MS FUD.

If you give a shit about "Linux" you don't buy from Dell, System76, or any other company that's shipping hardware dependent on proprietary crap. That's not going to give you a solid solution long term. The long term solution is going to be based on a free software stack. Anything short of that and your going to run into problems because of the design/support/development of the stack.

You can keep badmouthing GNU/Linux or make the decision to put your money where it counts and get something that works right (companies whom will actually support it and aren't shipping hardware targeted at Microsoft's OS).

And then you ask them about support. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365257)

And they say...pay somebody else???

Re:And then you ask them about support. (1)

SteveFoerster (136027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365967)

This may not be flattering to Trisquel Linux, but it makes a real point and didn't deserve to be modded into oblivion.

Stupid! (2)

notknown86 (1190215) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365263)

Handing out an desktop operating system that only has a desktop user interface?

This is 20-damn-12, I'd expect a mimimum of at least one useless user interface!

Re:Stupid! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365291)

There are plenty of useless user interfaces on Linux as well. You can always download GNOME3, Unity, KDE4, etc with a single command =)

Gnews: Gnus bearing gifts! (3, Interesting)

girlinatrainingbra (2738457) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365271)

I welcome these Gnus bearing free gifts! (valid to say "free gifts" in this context, with free as in software freedom. It's redundant to say "free gifts" with "free as in beer" as the word "gift" by itself implies "free as in beer"). [On Grimm, they mentioned that "gift" means "poison" in German, {'Geschenk' is the german word of the english word "gift"}so is it necessary to disavow that meaning? Free as is beer not as in poison?]

Re:Gnews: Gnus bearing gifts! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365527)

But it's a well-established fact that alcohol is basically poison...

Re:Gnews: Gnus bearing gifts! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365997)

So is oxygen

Re:Gnews: Gnus bearing gifts! (1)

GNious (953874) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365579)

"gift" in Danish (a germanic language) means poison ...
it also means "to be married" ...

Re:Gnews: Gnus bearing gifts! (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365617)

. . . and in Germany, Microsoft is handing out free copies of Windows 8 in "Schmuck" stores . . .

. . . but I have never figured out why people there would deposit their money in a place called Sparkasse . . .

Re:Gnews: Gnus bearing gifts! (1)

ByteSlicer (735276) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365691)

so is it necessary to disavow that meaning?

Obviously not, as it is a different language. You would never mix English and German and say "free Gift" (note the capitalization, also the plural is Gifte).

Re:Gnews: Gnus bearing gifts! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365769)

{'Geschenk' is the german word of the english word "gift"}

Since I have some time to spare and it might make for some nice trivia: Gift in German is indeed "poison", and Handy is a "cell phone", Box is usually a "loudspeaker". When Germans talk about a Brief they mean "letter", an Evergreen is an "oldie", and don't even get me started on what a Showmaster is. Fast means "almost", which turns Fast Food into "almost food" even though the expression is used in German ignoring the inherent pun (long vs. short a). Gymnasium is a "grammar school", Hose is "trousers", Mist is "dung" or "rubbish". Pickel is a "pimple" - yum! Rat means "advice", while rentabel is "profitable", our Rock is of course a "skirt", and if you have a Sense here, it is a "scythe". I might even wear a Smoking ("tuxedo"), unless I am a Tramper ("hitchhiker").

Good luck with that (5, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365285)

Ubuntu is a tough enough sale and that's with some proprietary stuff added on. Don't even want to know if Trisquel can play DVDs out of the box or not.

Re:Good luck with that (0)

interval1066 (668936) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365489)

if you don't get media versions of a distro installing media players/codecs is hardly rocket science.

Re:Good luck with that (1)

Nethemas the Great (909900) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366315)

If you are the type that buys your PC at a brick-and-mortar it hardly matters...

Re:Good luck with that (1)

The New Andy (873493) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365637)

Ubuntu is a tough enough sale and that's with some proprietary stuff added on. Don't even want to know if Trisquel can play DVDs out of the box or not.

Well since Windows 8 can't play DVDs out of the box, I'm guessing they are going to be even on that one. But I think putting Windows 8 "out of the box" up against nearly any Linux distribution is going to look bad for Windows 8. Can Windows 8 read pdfs out of the box? Word documents? Excel spreadsheets?

Re:Good luck with that (2)

anagama (611277) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365767)

Well, the question is how easy it is to get these things installed. For me, Linux is no issue, and I totally see how it is easier to type yum install [whatever] or apt-get install [whatever] -- but that makes most people balk.

Unfortunately, searching for programs is not always straightforward. Even experienced users get hung up. For example, I like the photo viewer formerly called GQview, but which is now named so badly the only way I can ever figure out what to type for the [whatever] part of the install command, is to google around for the new name, a name which violates spelling so bad it is practically impossible for me to keep it in my brain: geeqie

Seriously -- why?

Re:Good luck with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366295)

Trisquel's not totally user friendly and while I wouldn't want to try and support it most of the issues are related to adobe flash. Fix that and there isn't much else that is going to be a problem for most.

I don't know if Trisquel will play DVDs out of the box although there is no ethical issue with it. Trisquel could ship with support for playing commercial DRM encumbered DVDs. Playing DVDs is last century. There isn't much demand for it among consumers these days. It's like the floppy drive now. It's dead.

Trisquel? (3, Informative)

assertation (1255714) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365287)

I never heard of that distro before?

What is it like?

Zero proprietary drivers and media files?

GNOME desktop?

PITA to install?

Curious

Thanks

Steve

Re:Trisquel? (3, Informative)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365333)

It's another Debian-based distribution.

Re:Trisquel? (0)

mutube (981006) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365939)

Debian based,

Less whitespace

Than

Your

Comment

Re:Trisquel? (2)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366439)

My first thought when i saw the distro they choose to handout was "failure".
          It won't install on the new windows 8 desktop because of the secure boot without messing with the efi module at (are the computers sold by MS at the MS store required to have the secure boot disabled?) it won't play any of their media unless for some odd reason they have been saving it all in .ogg . It won't contain the necessary drivers. No flash(no hulu, or flash games or about 90% of streamed media) no Silverlight(by extension no netflix) no Adobe reader(so no overdrive ebooks from the local library) no idevice support. It is running a DE that most of the Linux community hates or at least treats with mild disdain, and people who have no experience with non-windows environment will look and act just as alien as DE formerly know as metro. For the things that are missing they will have to add repos and keys mess with the command line and grok the forums to find instruction on how to fix the distro in the end all it will do is reinforce the perception of Linux as a nerdgasim that is a pain to use and incompatible with all of their software. Even the software that they all ready use has been re-branded (over purely silly philosophical reasons see icecat the gnu fork of iceweisle the debian fork of firefox) so as to still seem alien at worst and like a knock off at best. the best thing the cold have done for free software is handout (kde, xfce, gnome fallback, (or unity/gnome 3for the adventurous) )ubuntu and linux mint discs and discs loaded with open source windows software. All this will do is make us look like a bunch of (G)NUts
Are you sure that Balmers privet army of ninjas hasn't planted a chip is Stalmens head and turned him into a saboteur?

Trisquel? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365289)

Trisquel GNU/Linux — a free alternative to Microsoft's new operating system, Windows 8.

Does Trisquel suck ass too? Like Windows 8, but free/Free? Unity?

world un-domination (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365295)

first step: hand out copies of trisquel to normal human beings

Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (4, Insightful)

Latent Heat (558884) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365301)

Yeah, yeah, "Linux" is just the kernel, but if it weren't for Mr. Torvald's kernel, the GNU project would be still spinning its wheels.

To the average "dude or dudette on the street", it is just plain "Linux", and this "GNU/Linux" label just oozes righteous political correctness.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365421)

if it weren't for Mr. Torvald's kernel, the GNU project would be still spinning its wheels.

True, but where would Linux be without GNU?
The GNU project created all the other parts of an operating system, and then Linus created a kernel.
He built it using GNU, and he built it to use GNU.
Linux didn't replace GNU; it is de facto part of GNU.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365697)

I didn't build Linux to use GNU, I built Linux to download pr0n from the local BBS.

-- Linus Torvalds

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366053)

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" -- Abraham Lincoln

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (1)

isorox (205688) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365941)

if it weren't for Mr. Torvald's kernel, the GNU project would be still spinning its wheels.

True, but where would Linux be without GNU?
The GNU project created all the other parts of an operating system, and then Linus created a kernel.
He built it using GNU, and he built it to use GNU.
Linux didn't replace GNU; it is de facto part of GNU.

A desktop os needs a browser (Firefox), text editor (vim), office suite (OpenOffice), PDF reader (evince), window manager (kde), etc

Gcc and Libc are very important, but to the end user gnu is a tiny part of the system.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (1)

byolinux (535260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366323)

> A desktop os needs a browser (Firefox), text editor (vim), office suite (OpenOffice), PDF reader (evince), window manager (kde), etc

Browser: GNU Icecat, text editor: emacs, office suite: GNOME Office, PDF reader: GNU PDF, window manager: GNOME.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366505)

He could of used assorted other lesser known utils or maybe used the ones from BSD after they beat AT&T. As it stands now there are a number of Linux sans gnu OS's out their, Android being the largest inferno a interesting set of programs that i have contemplated playing with i like a number of concepts plan9 had. Also as to your saying "Linux is part of defacto part of GNU" even Stallman would and has said your full of sh!t on that one. And don't go say "well call it gnu/linux then" as there are a whole shit ton of there major projects tools included on my system to. Should I call it GNU/Apache/BSD/X11/Mate/KDE/XFCE/Oracle/Mozilla/Linux as I have packages from all of them installed? Where do you draw the line? I would say call it Linux because that is what they all run on top of.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365431)

If it wasn't for Linux doing a great job, we might actually have a [well] working HURD kernel.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365525)

What is there against the GNU handing out "GNU/Linux" for free?

The GNU is about an idea, an ideal even. And they promote their idea by giving it away for free, completely in accordance with what they believe in and what they stand for.

Did you ever receive a C&D letter from GNU for calling "Linux" just "Linux", or what?

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (1)

berarma (1472191) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365567)

No, it's technical correctness. Android uses Linux like GNU/Linux uses Linux, none of them is Linux. Your views are political, this is a technical issue. Like saying the browser is the internet, no way, and it's not political correctness, it's (technical) correctness.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (4, Interesting)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365635)

if it weren't for Mr. Torvald's kernel, the GNU project would be still spinning its wheels.

Creating a kernel is easy. How long did it take Linus? Certainly not DECADES. Were it not for GNU, Linus's kernel wouldn't have done ANYTHING, and we'd STILL be waiting for him to get a decent compiler and userland tool suit running. Think about it. "I'm going to install the Linux Kernel!" "Why, it just sits there not doing a damned thing, doesn't even have a file system." Seriously. People make Monolithic Kernels all the damn time [osdev.org] , it's not even hard. I wrote such a kernel and boot loader in x86 ASM in about two weeks worth of evenings for my toy OS. Linus' was just the first one to come along, and that's good enough for FLOSS. It sucks that GNU gets dropped from the name given how much MORE work was put into it than the dead simple kernel Linus wrote, and it really sucks that he didn't use the "at your option any future version" text in the license, -- I mean, he made it impossible to change the license why? It's not like commercial folks couldn't stay with GPL2 "at their option". I don't know man, you sound like you're putting Linus on a much higher pedestal than you need to. Great guy and all, but come on, what he did was and still is a TINY fraction of the work.

*BSD wouldn't be dying, for one (2)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365723)

Were it not for GNU, Linux's userland would be based on that of BSD. USL v. BSDi finished about a year after Linux came out.

Re:*BSD wouldn't be dying, for one (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365895)

Were it not for the lawsuit, rather. GNU was available and had a shell, compiler, and editor ready to go with no legal questions. GNU couldn't have blocked something that wasn't available at the time.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365813)

creating a kernel might be easy but creating a brand isnt.
As a brand GNU is terrible, its poor visually, aurally and is just an all around crap collection of letters, even more so is the meaning behind the letters, which would get laughed out of just about any boardroom in industry you pick.

Linux is a brand AND a kernel, sure the project might not of worked without GNUs input, but it wouldnt work without all the rest of what makes a distro either.

tldr: GNU/ is a crap brand name, lose it.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (4, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366111)

Creating a kernel is easy.

Well in that case...

it really sucks that he didn't use the "at your option any future version" text in the license, -- I mean, he made it impossible to change the license why

Fortunately this can be resolved by simply writing a new kernel.

Which is easy.

And best of all you can make it compatible with the linux kernel, and then just substitute it in with GPLv2 or later in the license.

You said it could be ready in 2 weeks? Can't wait.

Re:Linux, Linux, Linux, Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366445)

Oh really? If creating a kernel is sooo damned easy, then why didn't anyone, you know, ACTUALLY DO IT? Right now, Linux can and does exist without any GNU involved - ever heard of, you know, Android? On the other hand non-Linux GNU (Hurd) is an utter joke. And that's ignoring the fact that most of its drivers are stolen from Linux.

Pathetic (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365321)

Seriously... you fucking lost. A long time ago. Nobody fucking cares about you. FSF, Stallman, whoever the fuck else... just go away and stop making yourselves look like douchebags.

Re:Window 8 is Pathetic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365907)

Millions of Android phones using Gnu tools and Gnu/linux, Apple used GTK to build OSX{v10} GUI, BSD used GNU to build their OS, Sun Microsystems used BSD to build SunOS, Microsoft used BSD code to build NTv3, Next computer inc., used BSD to build Next OS which apple computer purchased, Microsoft used BSD to build Xenix, and IBM used BSD to build AIX. RMS planted the seed which became the root of a productivity boom. RMS is a GOD and his contributions to computer science far exceed those of Bill Gates. So it is you who are pathetic for not realizing.

Based on Ubuntu (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365359)

Which is based on Debian, which is already "free"

round and round we go

Re:Based on Ubuntu (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365395)

Nuh uh! Debian allows you install software that Richard Stalin disagrees with. You're more free by being denied this ability!

Re:Based on Ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365735)

Oh that makes me angry! Picture you're me, trying to get Debian 6 running on an old PC. I could get to my data on the network, maybe, but nooooo...Debian decided that the firmware for my e100 card was not free enough, despite the fact that it was free enough to be distributed with the Linux kernel sources. So I had to get the real (not Debian) Linux kernel source and how to figure out how to get it to my fresh Debian install without network access. There's a bit of that nonsense in Debian, wasting my time in one case out of two. And for what? The Debian folks are making a decent effort to please RMS and those who think like him, all for GNU to officially snub Debian from their approved distributions list, because it's too easy to use Debian to get non-free software.

So when I read about how GNU people go out to Microsoft kids events during the holidays to distribute a relatively unknown version of Linux because their fervor has their sensibilities slightly out of whack, it all looks so GNU to me.

BTW, I like RMS, and I think of him wandering around, yelling like Sam Breakstone, "It's not FREE ENOUGH!...Still not FREE ENOUGH!" But he really needs to tell the GNU project to show Debian the slightest bit of mercy. Besides, mall shoppers would be extremely impressed if people were handing out 100-disc spools of Debian to passers-by. "You can get THIS MUCH free software! You can install one disc, or you can install all of them. It's up to you!"

Re:Based on Ubuntu (1)

byolinux (535260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366357)

"free enough to be distributed with the Linux kernel sources"

the firmware files are typically under a license that prohibits modification and even redistribution.

Let them be. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365455)

I say why not. If they would like to give out Trisquel GNU/Linux CD then I say go for it. I'm both a linux and a windows fan so I wouldn't really care. Linux is great for some people and bad fro some. I don't think they will really get many supported out of this. Fist off, Most people done want or know how to load an OS. This is the main reason computers come pre-installed with them. The people that will be shopping at the windows store will not be tech savy.most like, so not sure there going to use it. Also most will want a computer that can game, use microsoft office (because that is what they are use to), run without glitches and such. Linux can in many way not fufill that. Most games are not able to run on linux (WINE can't keep up with them), Open office while great can't do alot of the functions they may need to do that office 2010 can do, and While i love linux i have had to track down many problems with driver.
I would say if they really want to make an impact and not just get into the news, sitting outside of a computer parts store like Microcenter, frys, or the local computer shop would give better results. That is how I learned about linux not because i was went to windows store or Apple store or DELL or HP Store were i would have already been looking for a pre packaged computer.

bet most people threw the disks away (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365487)

who would trust some random person handing out free software anyway? Even if they were interested, they would promptly ditch it once they realize an all free software distro runs like shit without the proprietary drivers needed to run their computer well

Re:bet most people threw the disks away (1)

bhlowe (1803290) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365669)

Good point. Reminds me of all those "free" AOL CD-ROMs I used to get.

tris-what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365515)

seriously....what the hell?

why do closed-source get all the cool names?

Re:tris-what? (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366473)

It's Spanish for the 3-legged symbol that appears, among other places, on the flag of the Isle of Man.

See, the spaniards of Galicia claim celtic heritage.

Still not cool enough for you?

What? (2)

Mr_Silver (213637) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365537)

Why Trisquel?

Why not Linux Mint or Ubuntu or Debian or Redhat or one other distribution that is not only widely known, but has appropriate support, forums and users who can help?

I'm all for showing people what alternatives to Windows are out there, but surely it would be better to give them something else that - well - a decent number of people actually use?

Re:What? (5, Informative)

Microlith (54737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365571)

Because the FSF doesn't support projects that integrate (or allow the integration of) proprietary bits and pieces. This includes firmwares that need to be loaded on a device prior to operation, so there's a fair amount of hardware with completely open drivers that don't work on Trisquel because they omitted the firmware.

Re:What? (2)

Mr_Silver (213637) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365775)

Because the FSF doesn't support projects that integrate (or allow the integration of) proprietary bits and pieces. This includes firmwares that need to be loaded on a device prior to operation, so there's a fair amount of hardware with completely open drivers that don't work on Trisquel because they omitted the firmware.

Thanks for the explanation. Whilst it makes sense from an idealistic point of view, I can't help feeling that it's one of those great ideas that could ultimately do more bad than good - especially if the hardware someone uses doesn't work and the advice they find is "don't use that distribution, use this instead".

I suppose it comes down to goals: would the FSF rather someone stick with Windows if they are unable to use a FSF approved Linux distribution? Or is the goal to get people starting to move away from OSX and Windows, even if the first step is to what they consider an "imperfect" Linux distribution?

Re:What? (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365855)

It's silly because they would cease to complain about the firmware if it were stored on the device. Lack of this baseline capability (and simple things like the ability to play mp3/m4a) is what ensures I won't use it.

would the FSF rather someone stick with Windows if they are unable to use a FSF approved Linux distribution

The FSF is on the far end of things, anti-copyright, anti-patent and taking a "closed source software is immoral stance." They lead the charge, though, and we're way, way past the halfway point towards the walled garden, wholly proprietary camps of Microsoft and Apple so I won't begrudge them of their position.

Or is the goal to get people starting to move away from OSX and Windows, even if the first step is to what they consider an "imperfect" Linux distribution?

Awareness itself is often valuable on its own, particularly to consumers who don't know about anything but Windows or Apple.

Buy a new PC (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366079)

would the FSF rather someone stick with Windows if they are unable to use a FSF approved Linux distribution?

I assume FSF would want users to buy a new PC whose hardware supports a GNU/Linux distribution that does not contain or advertise proprietary software.

Re:Buy a new PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366375)

What the FSF wants is for hardware manufacturers to publish quality hardware specifications. When they do that, the software community can burden the responsibility of writing drivers.

Re:What? (1, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365885)

Because the FSF doesn't support projects that integrate (or allow the integration of) proprietary bits and pieces.

So basically they're doing their level best to make sure the average person considers Linux a non-functioning piece of crap.

Re:What? (1)

Desler (1608317) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365583)

Because it's the FSF and they don't endorse those distros.

Free beer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365551)

I would rather free beer though

What about OSX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42365649)

Are they also doing this demonstration at events at Apple Stores? If they were really serious about their message, and not just trying for a pissing contest with Microsoft, you would likely hear more about their efforts against Apple. My bet is that they have confused themselves in their fight against paid software, and made it a fight against Microsoft.

What about Apple? (1)

Ariake Shikima (1279458) | about a year and a half ago | (#42365683)

Are they also doing this demonstration at events at Apple Stores? If they were really serious about their message, and not just trying for a pissing contest with Microsoft, you would likely hear more about their efforts against Apple. My bet is that they have confused themselves in their fight against paid software, and made it a fight against Microsoft.

Re:What about Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366103)

Are they also doing this demonstration at events at Apple Stores?

No, because this sort of nonsense smacks of religious idiocy. In such a battle of zealotry, the FSF would be utterly destroyed by the Church of Jobs.

(Posted from my MacBook Air. Hail Apple! All Hail Saint Jobs!)

Re:What about Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366387)

I think you missed these events.
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/FSF-Targets-Apple-Stores-in-AntiDRM-Protests/
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/01/protestors-ipad-is-nothing-more-than-a-golden-calf-of-drm/
http://www.fsf.org/news/ibad_launch

Re:What about Apple? (1)

byolinux (535260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366511)

They've done dozens of events at Apple Stores, including the huge Apple store about 100 metres from this Microsoft store.

Re:What about Apple? (2)

Ariake Shikima (1279458) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366551)

Really. Interesting that I haven't heard about those events on /. but do when it's against Microsoft.

Trisquel GNU/Linux is not "free software". (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42366305)

They should have been handing out a desktop-oriented BSD distro instead.

Trisquel may avoid proprietary software / firmware (though to a lesser extent than OpenBSD), but it is still marred by support for intellectual property monopolies in the form of restrictive copyleft licensing. In fact, copyleft depends on copyright MUCH MORE than most businesses in the software industry do today, as many transition to explicit contracts like SaaS, hardware bundling, support contracts, etc. GPL is morally identical to SOPA, but with a different set of demagogues seeking to gain power from it.

--libman

Such a waste (2)

FyberOptic (813904) | about a year and a half ago | (#42366313)

They're getting desperate. This is like a church handing out pamphlets outside of a movie theater or arcade. It'll all go in the garbage, and end up being a waste of time and resources.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...