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Israeli Bill Would Allow Secret Blacklists For Websites

timothy posted about a year ago | from the blacklist-is-so-dark-you-can't-see-it dept.

Censorship 132

jonklinger writes with the lead from his report on a move to hamper internet freedom in Israel: "Israel is to attempt, again, to pass a bill that authorizes police officers to issue warrants to Internet service providers to block or restrict access to specific websites involved either in gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement. The bill itself proposes that such administrative procedures shall be clandestine and that court decisions shall be made ex-parte, where some of the court's ruling will not be even dislosed to the owner of the website, and the court may hear and use inadmissible evidence."

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132 comments

Slopes were made for slippin' (4, Insightful)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year ago | (#42370007)

Oooh secret courts! Censorship! Illegally-obtained evidence!

So much for "never again". We have become our enemy.

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' (5, Insightful)

flayzernax (1060680) | about a year ago | (#42370287)

I like how all of these current politicaly hip ideas " gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement" to regulate are all being lumped into the same bill.

I hate to say this but they are all nothing alike, and the reasons for blocking each individualy differ quite a bit. To make it secret is even worse. Why don't you do the internet a service and educate people about these issues directly.

Should some things be blocked, taken down, raided, removed from the group think, yep, definately child porn, but lets not erode everything else to do it. It can be done responsably.

I suppose you will take down WALL STREET's webs since their all about gambling. Or the myriad content producers who violate their own rules. (disney recently in the news asking google to filter its own results out of the web)

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year ago | (#42371745)

I understand the desire to keep the list secret -- some people will use a published list as a catalog of sites to visit -- but, as usual, I strongly recommend against building tools of tyrrany. "We won't misuse it" is part of tyrrany's meme spread mechanism.

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' (2)

sortius_nod (1080919) | about a year ago | (#42372255)

You don't think that a determined enough person can find these sites anyway? The lists should never be secret, the cases should always be open.

The idea that even the site's owner won't be notified shows a "guilty with no chance to prove innocence" process. I hate to skirt a Godwin, but this kind of activity reeks of fascism.

hitler would be proud (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370323)

the jews are now acting worse then nazis all they need do is start a genocide oh wait ..palestinians anyone....

Re:hitler would be proud (1, Insightful)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year ago | (#42370381)

the jews are now acting worse then nazis all they need do is start a genocide oh wait ..palestinians anyone....

Israel is not just Jews. This story is about the political power in Israel, it has nothing to do with Judaism.

Re:hitler would be proud (2, Informative)

ladoga (931420) | about a year ago | (#42370631)

Except that if you want to get into politics in Israel you have to recognize the state of Israel as a Jewish state.

In other words, people who belong to certain religious group are more equal than others.

Re:hitler would be proud (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371073)

Unless of course you're in the 20% of the Israeli parliament that's Arab or one of the many parties that doesn't care about religion or is anti-religious.

Israel is a Jewish state like America is a Christian country. I.e. they're not really.

Re:hitler would be proud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371149)

misinformation about israel?

man... now i've seen everything.

Re:hitler would be proud (4, Informative)

sentientbeing (688713) | about a year ago | (#42371165)

This is bullshit. Israel defines itself as a Jewish state. It demands that other people recognize it as such.

The US specifically defines itself NOT as a Christian state.

Re:hitler would be proud (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371293)

Amen to that brother and may God bless America.

Re:hitler would be proud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371229)

I didn't know the JIDF visited slashdot.

Re:hitler would be proud (1)

ddfire (1114249) | about a year ago | (#42371683)

hey did you know there are muslims and arabs in the israeli congres? oh no? yes you are just an ignorant troll....

Re:hitler would be proud (3, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year ago | (#42370419)

I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians. The converse however is not true.

Re:hitler would be proud (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370549)

"I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians."

Of course they don't say it; they're much to smart for that. (Imagine the international repercussions.) Instead, they just methodically take slow steps towards that end, taking West Bank resources and land, effectively imprisoning Gaza, calculating just enough calories to keep Palestinians alive but stunt the physical and brain growth of their children to ensure a stupid and obedient next generation, etc.

Re:hitler would be proud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370639)

If the situation was reversed you might well hear it. As it is low cost worker have to come from some where.

Re:hitler would be proud (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370667)

I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians. The converse however is not true.

There certainly are extreme factions within the Palestinian community who want to kill all Israelis, just like there are extremists in Israel which want to kill all Palestinians. Wasn't it Rabbi Meir Kahane who called Arabs a "cancer" that had to be cut out of the flesh of Israel? How do his utterances differ from those of the most hateful of the Hamas extremists? The man advocated the abolishment of democracy in Israel in the event that Israeli Arabs became more numerous than Jews to secure the dominance of the Jews because otherwise, by the rules of democracy, the Jews would get outvoted. To me that sounds like a pretty close description of the apartheid state in S-Africa. There are ignorant fanatics on both sides, your attempts to try to convince us that the viewpoints of the most extreme of the Palestinian fanatics are the views of all Palestinians everywhere just serves to highlight how intolerant and ignorant you are yourself.

Re:hitler would be proud (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371091)

You're entirely right, except you missed the part where Israel made Meir Kahane's faction illegal in the country.

Contrast this with Hamas or Fatah where Kill all Jews and destroy Israel is literally in their charter.

It might very well be that the view is extreme, but as long as that is the view of their government, that's the main view you have to worry about.

Re:hitler would be proud (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371619)

You're entirely right, except you missed the part where Israel made Meir Kahane's faction illegal in the country.

Contrast this with Hamas or Fatah where Kill all Jews and destroy Israel is literally in their charter.

It might very well be that the view is extreme, but as long as that is the view of their government, that's the main view you have to worry about.

In 1948 a group of Jewish militia murdered count Folke Bernadotte [wikipedia.org]. This was the same Folke Bernadotte who negotiated with the Nazis for the release of thousands of prisoners form Nazi death camps while most of the rest of the world was refusing to believe these camps existed. Bernadotte then became a central figure in organising a convoy of vehicles [wikipedia.org] to travel from Sweden (running a gauntlet of Allied submarines and naval mines) to collect these people. Clearly these Jewish activists had murdered a man who by rights belonged on that deservedly much admired list of the Righteous among the Nations that the Yad Vashem in Israel keeps. Now if you thought that the state of Israel threw the book at the killers of this man, you would be wrong. They did convict them of murder but then immediately pardoned them. One of the shot callers behind the murder, Nathan Yellin-Mor, was even elected to the Knesset. The moral of this story is that the state of Israel has a long history, going back to it's foundation, of appearing to severely punish extremists like the Kahane faction only to let them off the hook once Israel's leaders feel the dust has settled.

P.S. In case you are wondering, the last time I checked Bernadotte had still not been added to the list of Righteous among the Nations even though his convoy rescued hundreds of Danish Jews from Theresienstadt concentration camp and thereby from certain death. The murder of Bernadotte continues to clog up relations between Sweden and Israel today, over half a century later.

Re:hitler would be proud (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370733)

Actions speak louder than words, and Israel's actions are unambiguously saying they want to displace or kill all Palestinians.

Re:hitler would be proud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371571)

completely wrong. If Israel wanted to eradicate the palestinians they are more than capable of doing so.
Since they haven't it is obvious that that is not their goal.

Re:hitler would be proud (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371747)

completely wrong. If Israel wanted to eradicate the palestinians they are more than capable of doing so.
Since they haven't it is obvious that that is not their goal.

There is a difference between being able to do something and getting away with it. If Israel really let loose it's extremists and committed large scale pogroms on the Palestinians even the USA could possibly protect them but practically every other country on earth would embargo Israel and freeze it's assets. They got away with the pogroms in Sabra and Shatila because it happened in Lebanon and the people involved were mostly their Lebanese stooges. A Knesset investigation blamed Ariel Sharon and several army commanders for the Sabra and Shatila pogrom and not doing jack shit to stop it. Predictably Arial Sharon never suffered any consequences.

Re:hitler would be proud (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370753)

they didn't say they want to..... but they do it anyway

Re:hitler would be proud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370843)

Got a link to where "Palestine" in its entirety says "we want to kill all Israelis"?

Re:hitler would be proud (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371119)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.

The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.

Re:hitler would be proud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42372105)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.

The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.

The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.

Are you really trying to tell us that just because Hamas says something it must follow that every Palestinian everywhere agrees with it? You are sticking a label on an entire population which is a strong indication of the fact that you are closed minded and ignorant.

Re:hitler would be proud (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371167)

No however they have been caught sending military memos that dictate that for every Israeli citizen killed they will kill ten Palestinian civilians. All Israelis are valid targets as military service is compulsory, the same does not stand for the Palestinians. Since this has already Godwinned, you really would think that any Jew and every Israeli would know what they are doing to Gaza is immoral and very close to that which they most hate. But that's the problem with post traumatic stress on such a large scale the people are still screwed from WW2.

Re:hitler would be proud (3, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#42371551)

Technically correct, and completely symbolic and irrelevant.

Israeli policy in the West Bank has typically been to take land by force and demand that the Palestinians do nothing about it. Israeli policy in the Gaza Strip has been to blockade all shipments to the area and to forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, and then periodically "mow the grass" (this is the Israeli term for their periodic indiscriminate bombing of Gaza).

Any reasonably fair way of looking at the conflict in the Levant acknowledges three basic facts:
1. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been absolutely brutal, including attacking and terrorizing civilians.
2. Israel is currently winning by a wide margin. For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died, and approximately 10 Israelis died. Or you can look at who controls what land [thehypertexts.com]. Or you can look at the casualties over the last 10 years, which give Israel approximately a 6:1 advantage.
3. Neither Israel nor Hamas nor Fatah operate within the bounds of international law.

Re:hitler would be proud (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371899)

Technically correct, and completely symbolic and irrelevant.

Israeli policy in the West Bank has typically been to take land by force and demand that the Palestinians do nothing about it. Israeli policy in the Gaza Strip has been to blockade all shipments to the area and to forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, and then periodically "mow the grass" (this is the Israeli term for their periodic indiscriminate bombing of Gaza).

Any reasonably fair way of looking at the conflict in the Levant acknowledges three basic facts:
1. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been absolutely brutal, including attacking and terrorizing civilians.
2. Israel is currently winning by a wide margin. For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died, and approximately 10 Israelis died. Or you can look at who controls what land [thehypertexts.com]. Or you can look at the casualties over the last 10 years, which give Israel approximately a 6:1 advantage.
3. Neither Israel nor Hamas nor Fatah operate within the bounds of international law.

I know a doctor who has been going to Gaza for years to operate on people injured and crippled in Israeli attacks. According to him, while the Israelis don't block medical shipments, they delay them until medications are time expired and they do things like store delicate medical equipment outside exposed to the elements until it is useless before releasing it or search sealed sterile containers without resealing them properly resulting in equipment arriving full of dust and dirt i.e. useless. If you want to get medical equipment into Gaza you are better off shipping medicine and medical equipment to Egypt and then negotiating with criminals to smuggle it into Gaza via tunnels. At least that way it will get to Gaza in a usable condition. The Israelis will also refuse medical professionals and aid workers entry after making them wait for weeks, without any rational explanation as to why they are being turned back.

Re:hitler would be proud (3, Interesting)

offerk (764276) | about a year ago | (#42371999)

> For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cloud_Pillar [wikipedia.org] ) this is actually the number of Palestinians *injured*, not killed:

"Between 158 and 177 Palestinians died in the operation, with between 55 and 120 of them being combatants. An additional 1,200-1,300 Palestinians were injured, and between 350 and 700 Palestinian families displaced."

Re:hitler would be proud (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371343)

the jews are now acting worse then nazis all they need do is start a genocide oh wait ..palestinians anyone....

Fuck you idiot

Re:hitler would be proud (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371449)

While jews in general are great peole and to stereotype them as such is is wrong.

The statement that "some Zoinists are becoming worse then Nazi's" may be fairly correct. I know nothing of the ones oversease, but there are a few congressmen and government officials in America who are very fascist in nature.

Of course theres great ones too. Thank god they more or less balance eachother out, however I would like to see more tolerance for everyone in politics. Even the worst of the worst people deserve some compassion in this world.

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371007)

Don't you dare criticize your jewish masters! They own your money through the banks, they own your mind through media, and now they are going to own your body as well. You'll be thrown in jail and you won't even know why, because it's a secret shared only in the synagogue. And you thought the "international jewry" Hitler raved about in the 1930's-1940's were just the ravings of a madman...

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371121)

So you court is saying Hitler was right. He just lost a war.

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42372303)

Duh, no, the JEWS are our enemy, idiot.

"We have become our enemy" indeed.

Good old Israel, telling the world what to do...

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42372397)

These Jews aren't stupid.
If you want to be successful like China rather than a shithole like the USA, then you need to emulate Chinese policies.

This is how it should be... (1, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | about a year ago | (#42370011)

Each nation should be able to legislate and govern internet access in the way it sees fit; and best suite for its citizen's good. What's good for the US may not be good enough for Israel or even the UK, China or India. Just because the internet as it has eveolved so far is inter-operable across nations, does not mean it should be governed by a single set of rules, protocols and conventions.

Re:This is how it should be... (5, Insightful)

CosmicMuse (2751635) | about a year ago | (#42370185)

While there's potentially merit in your argument, I think most people worldwide would agree that "government censorship through secret court proceedings using illegal evidence" is not a beneficial protocol for... well, any country. This proposal isn't a slippery slope, it's a canyon drop-off, and at the bottom is "government-approved communication" and "arrests without trial for dissenting speech".

Re:This is how it should be... (4, Insightful)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about a year ago | (#42370223)

Irony. You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.

Re:This is how it should be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370803)

Irony. You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.

That's not ironic, it's coincidental!

Re:This is how it should be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371145)

You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.

1. It worked quite well for the source of the policy (the nazi government had no problems until they lost the war)
2. Politicians all over the world are well aware of 1
3. While all politicians agree that Nazis where evil there is also the attempt to limit information about how they did their evil - "nazis where evil but you do not need to know how we^W they manage to brainwash people into following us^W them". (at least that is what I see the politicians doing here in germany - scientific examination of nazi propaganda? freely available for the public? of course not.)

Re:This is how it should be... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42372023)

Nazis were evil because we are told that they were evil.

Re:This is how it should be... (4, Insightful)

interval1066 (668936) | about a year ago | (#42370257)

While there's potentially merit in your argument...

No, there's no merit to censorship. Its all about control and who rules. End of discussion.

Re:This is how it should be... (3, Informative)

Sun (104778) | about a year ago | (#42370711)

The only good news is that I think (hope?) that this proposal has little chance of passing. Past experience with fighting such stupid proposals tells me that we (voice of reason) can usually garner enough support within the parliament to block such stupid law proposals.

Please remember that proposing such laws only require one member of Knesset. Passing them, well, that requires a little more.

Shachar

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

Dunbal (464142) | about a year ago | (#42372005)

and "arrests without trial for dissenting speech"

Only at the beginning. Once people realize there are no consequences, it will just be arrests without trial. This has happened numerous times before, history is full of examples. It will happen again.

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

BSAtHome (455370) | about a year ago | (#42370199)

And let /. be the first on that secret list. There can not come any good from discussion, ever, how good or sad it is performed..

Re:This is how it should be... (2)

jkrise (535370) | about a year ago | (#42370357)

And let /. be the first on that secret list.

If democratically elected officials are following due process, and coming to arbitrary conclusions, their people deserve it, and need to elect someone else. That is a lesser burden on society than unfettered crime on the internet that does not go away.And if /. be deemed to be a dangerous site, so be it.

Re:This is how it should be... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370215)

Last I checked Human Rights were called Human Rights, not qualified with "only for citizens of Country-XYZ". If a state wants to be considered civilised then it should have a civilised perspective on and adhere to human rights, whether it be Israel, China, USA or South Sudan.

Re:This is how it should be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371021)

Last I checked Human Rights were called Human Rights, not qualified with "only for citizens of Country-XYZ". If a state wants to be considered civilised then it should have a civilised perspective on and adhere to human rights, whether it be Israel, China, USA or South Sudan.

Last I checked Human Rights were called Human Rights, not qualified with "only for citizens of Country-XYZ".

That is a very common viewpoint, this is a conversation I had not that long ago about Moslem women and the their islamic dress-code:

A: Hijabs should be forbidden.
B: Why? We live in a democracy, if women want to wear headscarves and veils that is their right.
A: You know if I was a woman and I went to Saudi Arabia I'd have to wear a headscarf.
B: So because western women visiting Saudi Arabia are forced to wear a headscarf we should ban moslem women in our country from wearing one?
A: Yes.
B: Even though it is their right of moslem women under the constitution of our democracy to wear any kind of clothing they want like any other citizen?
A: Yes.
B: So If I understand you correctly, We should punish people from country X that live among us in our country because the government of country X is doing things you don't approve of. How about North Koreans? If you went to North Korea you'd probably be detained as a spy, should we start rounding up Korean people and lock them up in retaliation?
A: That's not what I said...
B: Well I picked that example to demonstrate how silly your POW is. You just said that Moslem women should not be allowed to wear a headscarf in this country even though it is their right to do so and you tried to justify it by pointing out that western women in Saudi Arabia are made to wear one. I don't really care what the Saudis are doing, I refuse to sacrifice our democratic principles to punish local moslems for something that is happening in another country just because you don't like headscarves.
A: Uhhhhhh.... you are twisting my words, I'm all in favour of this democracy thing but I just think Moslems should be banned from wearing headscarves....
B: *** sigh *** GOTO _beginning_

Re:This is how it should be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370217)

The problem arise when sociopaths make the laws and the calls, while terrorizing their citizens and neighbours.

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

interval1066 (668936) | about a year ago | (#42370243)

I always love the "freedom of speech may work in the US but its not necessarily appropriate for my country..."

Re:This is how it should be... (2, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | about a year ago | (#42370321)

I always love the "freedom of speech may work in the US but its not necessarily appropriate for my country..."

Freedom of speech isn't the only thing at issue here; consider a company known to clandestinely distributing malware / legitimate software that monitors user's activities by reporting back to its servers. I'm talking about CarrierIQ which is installed in many mobile devices; reporting back keystrokes, messages etc., getting access to data even before it is encrypted on the device.

There was lots of noise about a year or so ago as I recall; followed by total silence. The Trevor Eckart's video revealed potential abuse of several federal laws, and yet the company seems to be operating unscathed.

Now, the Israel govt. has the choice to bring legal proceedings followed by lengthy trials etc.; but seeing as this matter has been hushed; might feel the publicity might not be worth the effort. So it could simply issue a blacklist order on all ISPs to simply blacklist the offending IP address and be done with it; pending investigation. This is not a Freedom of Speech issue; more of a national security issue.

There could be many more such scenarios.

Re:This is how it should be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370371)

And who decides what's "best suited for its citizen's good"? If it's not a superior being then it needs to be voted upon by the citizenry.

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

jkrise (535370) | about a year ago | (#42370397)

And who decides what's "best suited for its citizen's good"?
Democratically elected officials who are trying to get this Bill passed. They have the right to decide what's good for their citizens.

If it's not a superior being then it needs to be voted upon by the citizenry.

Not every single issue merits going through a public referendum. If it's such a big deal, the citizenry could vote out those in power and get a better party in its place.

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

ugglybabee (2435320) | about a year ago | (#42370409)

How it's going to be, maybe, but surely there are limits to what a govenrment can do to its people's rights and still have it be "the way it ought to be."

Here's the thing: if decisions are made ex parte and in secret, the odds that these decisions will be strictly limited to include only cases of "gambling, child pronography, and copyright infringement" are just about zero per cent.

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

jkrise (535370) | about a year ago | (#42370479)

Here's the thing: if decisions are made ex parte and in secret, the odds that these decisions will be strictly limited to include only cases of "gambling, child pronography, and copyright infringement" are just about zero per cent.

Fair enough, maybe it was worded that way to make it palatable to the legislators... a bit like SOPA was worded, and later rejected. While Israleis are normally a very clever bunch of people, a sizable number of them might not know what is good for themselves, and might be falling prey to dangerous activities occurring on the internet. They might need to be protected from themselves and this legislation could be of help, and indeed might be the only practical way to limit great harm. It is an issue best left to the legislators voting on the Bill.

Re:This is how it should be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370975)

Yes, and installing Why not incarcerate everyone in camps where their movements and activities can be more easily observed and controlled?

Re:This is how it should be... (4, Insightful)

Blue Stone (582566) | about a year ago | (#42370541)

>Each nation should be able to legislate and govern internet access in the way it sees fit; and best suite for its citizen's good.

They way you phrased this, someone could interpret you as saying that all governments act in the best interests of the people they govern.

That can't be what you meant, though, because I know nobody's *that* naive in this day and age.

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

terec (2797475) | about a year ago | (#42370611)

I don't see anybody calling for Israel to be prevented from doing this. However, the rest of us can still comment on it, can't we?

Re:This is how it should be... (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year ago | (#42371765)

"Each clustered local group of dominants should be able create control mechanisms that engender their continuation in power, and I encourage them to use memetic rationalizations that easily spread to the common worker cogs when doing so."

FTFY

Wherever their culture draws the thin line... (2)

Art Popp (29075) | about a year ago | (#42370053)

between "person who blogged about Olmert's overly aggressive war against Lebannon" and "Subversive Hezbollah sympathizer," that line needs to be in clear public view. It is a symbol of a country's bravery in times of fear. Ex-parte, non-disclosed proceedings will make it impossible for people to know the "why" and the balance the court has placed on fighting crime vs. sacrificing free speech. Without that visibility, there is zero chance that the line will be held in place, uninfluenced by politics.

Of all the people that I assumed would be on guard for the State taking powers that could easily be abused to silence the minority, I thought it would be them.

Re:Wherever their culture draws the thin line... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370169)

between "person who blogged about Olmert's overly aggressive war against Lebannon" and "Subversive Hezbollah sympathizer," that line needs to be in clear public view. It is a symbol of a country's bravery in times of fear. Ex-parte, non-disclosed proceedings will make it impossible for people to know the "why" and the balance the court has placed on fighting crime vs. sacrificing free speech. Without that visibility, there is zero chance that the line will be held in place, uninfluenced by politics.

Of all the people that I assumed would be on guard for the State taking powers that could easily be abused to silence the minority, I thought it would be them.

Israelis weren't on guard for the state putting Palestinians into concentration camps and stealing their land; why would Israelis be on guard for the state taking yet more powers that could easily be used to silence a minority and generally crack down any other vulnerable groups? Seems to me the Israeli state has simply expanded it's oppression efforts to encompass yet more vulnerable groups which is not exactly a new development. What interests me is how long will it take before the Israeli people get tired of living in a state of constant war with all the draconian 'security measures' that come with it? You'd think that half a century was enough to wear any population down to the point where trying to end the bloodshed began to seem like a good idea.

Re:Wherever their culture draws the thin line... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370309)

this is the problem.

its not that some clear delineation exists between legal and illegal behavior and they just decided to keep it a secret

its a secret because there is no line. there is no distinction between a citizen exercising the right to a reasonable
and polite dissent of policies and a terrorist. if you get to be too much of a pain in the ass you will be silenced.

and if 10 years from now its expedient to circumcise some other behaviors, then you as the government dont need to
worry about any kind of messy legal analysis or political process...you already have a blank check to do whatever the hell you want.

Re:Wherever their culture draws the thin line... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370465)

this is the problem.

its not that some clear delineation exists between legal and illegal behavior and they just decided to keep it a secret

its a secret because there is no line. there is no distinction between a citizen exercising the right to a reasonable
and polite dissent of policies and a terrorist. if you get to be too much of a pain in the ass you will be silenced.

and if 10 years from now its expedient to circumcise some other behaviors, then you as the government dont need to
worry about any kind of messy legal analysis or political process...you already have a blank check to do whatever the hell you want.

So ISRAEL is learning from the US.
It seems that the rule of law will only be upheld in the EU at this rate.

Secret? (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about a year ago | (#42370121)

It's kind of hard to "secretly" block a web site, isn't it?

"Don't tell anyone, but no one can access this web site in Israel..."

Re:Secret? (1)

jonklinger (1166633) | about a year ago | (#42370333)

Not really; the secret part is the arguments the court ruled on. Meaning, you'll get a court order saying "well, we'll block access to your website, but we can't let you see the evidence we have saying that there's gambling going on there".

Re:Secret? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370347)

Except if you use ISPs outside the nation? VPN, satellite connections, Tor, etc. etc.

But it is interesting how child porn is now on same level as copyright infringement. Very interesting. What's next stop? You don't agree with Israeli-Palestinian segregation and concentration camps? How about you don't agree with the First-Strike-on-Iran dogma? Those blogs and websites probably will not be available in Israel very long.

Tell Bill to knock it off (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370141)

Weirdo.

Let Israel build a wall around themselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370153)

Fuck Israel, let themselves segregate themselves into oblivion. I'm soo tired of hearing about ISREAL shut the fuck up about them. there are more worthy news topics out there.

TOR, VPN, Proxies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370197)

Hi:

Good thing none of these things exist.

One impoertant piece of information is missing (2)

alexo (9335) | about a year ago | (#42370301)

Which MP(s) are behind this initiative?

Re:One impoertant piece of information is missing (2)

jonklinger (1166633) | about a year ago | (#42370343)

This is actually not a private bill, but a governmental bill. Meaning it is not being presented by any specific member of Knesset, but by the government itself.

Re:One impoertant piece of information is missing (1)

Sun (104778) | about a year ago | (#42370743)

This is actually not a private bill, but a governmental bill. Meaning it is not being presented by any specific member of Knesset, but by the government itself.

I am not 100% sure about this, but I believe you are wrong. "Governmental bill" means that the MP who signed off on this atrocity is a member of the government. There is still someone specific to blame.

When I get a chance, I'll go through Knesset site and search for the specific proposal.

Shachar

This is a draft by the ministry of justice (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370837)

They don't have any elected officials behind this yet.
The government isn't behind this yet either.
We're one month away from the elections.
Literally everything legislative is on hold, which is why this didn't get any media attention in Israel.
The chances it gets started before 2014 are slim.
The chances it gets the approval of Netanyahu is zero.
He routinely kills such laws proposed by back benchers to limit the damage to Israel's reputation only to things he really cares about such as settlements...

Back to watching CSI re-runs...

This used to be a joke... (5, Interesting)

CanEHdian (1098955) | about a year ago | (#42370311)

block or restrict access to specific websites involved either in gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement.

It used to be a joke when "copyright infringement" was put in the same category as serious offences, see this wonderful video [vimeo.com]. Are these politicians out of their mind, or are these people bought and paid for as the video suggests?

Re:This used to be a joke... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370591)

People might object to a pure anti-piracy bill. No one would protest an anti-child porn bill.

Pedophiles are always a very convenient boogyman for lawmakers.

communist laws vs human rights (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370315)

is governments getting rid of civil rights and human rights in favor of communist type of laws.

Seriously not flamebait... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370433)

Why is 'because holocaust' acceptable to defend deplorable acts of the Israeli government and yet 'because slavery' is not acceptable to rationalize the deplorable acts of a minority of people with a darker skin tone than their European cousins?

Re:Seriously not flamebait... (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#42370485)

Why is 'because holocaust' acceptable to defend deplorable acts of the Israeli government

Who's saying it is?

the deplorable acts of a minority of people with a darker skin tone than their European cousins?

Which acts by the descendants of slaves are you thinking of?

Re:Seriously not flamebait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370671)

1) Any time anyone brings up things that the Israeli government does in bad light is branded anti-semitic by a very powerful and vocal group.

2) I'm talking about general street crime and social disadvantages as a result of racism. Slavery might have ended a while ago but segregation and state sanctioned racism is still well within living memory. When this is brought up however, we're told to 'get over it', that was 'a long time ago and has no relevance to society now'.

Re:Seriously not flamebait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42372029)

Why is 'because holocaust' acceptable to defend deplorable acts of the Israeli government

Who's saying it is?

Depressingly often, when I see Jewish activists and Israelis, arguing with other people about controversial things that Israel does, as soon as they get painted into a corner, they start to bringing up the holocaust or accusing their opponents of being anti semites. It's a very convenient tactic because it forces their opponent to stop successfully painting them into a corner about bombing the bajeezes out of the Gaza strip and killing 1200 people over a few Katyusha rockets and defend himself against charges of being a holocaust denier and a neo-nazi.

Also, they should burn all the unjewish books (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370463)

Inappropriate?

Why The Need for Such Secrecy? (2)

hduff (570443) | about a year ago | (#42370505)

If they are trying to do good in a legal way, why does the government need such secrecy?

i.e. If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?

There's a theocratic aspect to this (5, Informative)

Animats (122034) | about a year ago | (#42370587)

Note that the proposed law gives the power to censor to the Israeli justice minister. Yaakov Neeman, the current justice minister, is kind of weird. News articles:

There's a sizable ultra-orthodox faction in Israel which wants a political system where rabbis run things. Neeman is from that faction. Israel already has rabbinical courts, but they're currently restricted to ruling on religious issues and divorces. Neeman has said he wants to expand the authority of rabbinical courts, which in Israel are dominated by ultra-othodox rabbis.

Ultra-orthodox groups are very anti-Internet. [nymag.com] This goes way beyond censoring pornography. There are special censored ISPs that only allow a list of 400 approved sites, most of which are religious.

So that's where this may be going, or at least where one faction would like to go. (Israel politics is currently deadlocked worse than US politics. There are many parties, none with a majority, and shifting coalitions. Different factions control different ministries as part of the deals made to put coalitions together. Just because the Justice Minister wants something doesn't mean the Government does.)

Its good to know we are not... (1)

3seas (184403) | about a year ago | (#42370605)

...individuals....

What the Fu& is this nations crap all about..... I'm not a nation and neither are you.

The more open we are about the fact of being individuals the less those in command and control over "nations" have over us individuals.

Secretly blocking a site? (1)

Threni (635302) | about a year ago | (#42370813)

How does that work? Either you can get to the site or you can't. Perhaps the IsItDownForJustMe type sites can be extended: IsItDownForJustOtherIsraelisOrEverythingElseToo.com perhaps?

Re:Secretly blocking a site? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371237)

No. The idea is that the site is blocked and the owner isn't informed about it. In addition, the site will likely behave as if it is broken. They won't display "blocked by the FBI" or whatever. It'll just say the site isn't accessible. Possibly some default message.

It'll likely work about as well as the Swedish child porn filter. (ie not at all)

Per country slashdot? (1)

techhead79 (1517299) | about a year ago | (#42370835)

Ok. I live in a country with 300 million plus inhabitants. Why should I care about a country with 8 million? Likewise why should someone in china give two craps about US tech news...

Re:Per country slashdot? (1)

JustNiz (692889) | about a year ago | (#42371839)

Because for some reason, the US seems think everyone should be disproportionately concerned about Israel.
I guess thats an indicator of the degree of Jewish money/power/influence over the government and media in the USA.

Are you sure this is Israel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42370853)

This sounds [wikipedia.org] more like a certain country just south of Canada.

Note: Access to the web site above may be blocked in your country.

Everyday in denmark since 2005 (3, Interesting)

pinkishpunk (1461107) | about a year ago | (#42371031)

In 2005 such a DNS based filter was rolled out here in Denmark, First toured as a filter against Child pornography, as a none binding aggrement between the danish branch of save the children and the biggest Isp. By design its ofcause a none public liste, later in 2006 allofmp3.com was blocked using the same system, then the pirate bay was added, then sites that sells medicin that requires a prescription, and the lates addion was gamling sites that doesnt pay danish tax. In 2008 the list was leaked ( http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Denmark:_3863_sites_on_censorship_list%2C_Feb_2008 [wikileaks.org] ) , was found to be blocking sites not related to what it was intented to, legitime sites. It always starts out as against Child pornography, and then they will start put more and more into it.

Halleluja (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371185)

I heard there was a secret court
Knesset used and it pleased the horde
but you don't really care for justice, do ya?

A piece of non-news... (2)

urdak (457938) | about a year ago | (#42371361)

The summary, as well as the article, contains the sentence "Israel is to attempt, again, to pass a bill ...".
Another way to phrase it is: "The bill did *not* pass last time, and may end up not passing again.".
Sounds less sinister, doesn't it? And non-news....

In other words., unlike some other countries (most notably the U.S.) where laws for taking down Websites have passed and have been used, laws outlawing various behaviors that have nothing to do with copying as "copyright circumvention", laws allowing people to be banished from the Internet have passed etc., - none of this crap exists in Israel. So if anything, the Internet freedom situation is *better* in Israel than in most countries.

Nazi Jews? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42371483)

For a nation of people who suffered through a genocide by a fascist state, there couldn't be a more shameful thing than to turn their own country into a fascist state. UN gave them their country, and they should have it taken away for this kind of nonsense.

We shall condemn Israel (1)

ComradeMauser (2751597) | about a year ago | (#42371783)

Israel has to be condemned for trying to pass the law outlawing freedoms. If the law will fail to pass, we shall condemn Israel for condoning the crimes that the bill targets. Israel, what would we do without it?!!

Maybe I understand it wrong (1)

skitchen8 (1832190) | about a year ago | (#42372021)

But isn't copyright infringement a civil matter? The state can prosecute you for gambling, and child pornography, but doesn't an individual or company have to file a claim for copyright infringement? This seems like a ridiculous thing for a national level government to be concerning itself with.
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