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New York Paper Uses Public Records To Publish Gun-Owner Map

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the verified-no-gun-map-would-be-more-interesting dept.

Privacy 1232

New submitter Isaac-1 writes "First it was the sex offenders being mapped using public records, now it seems to be gun owners — I wonder who will be next? It seems a newspaper in New York has published an interactive map with the names and addresses of people with [handguns]." It's happened before: In 2007, Virginia's Roanoke Times raised the ire of many gun owners by publishing a database of Virginia's gun permit holders that it assembled based on public records inquiries. (The paper later withdrew that database.) Similarly, WRAL-TV in North Carolina published a database earlier this year with searchable map of (partially redacted) information about permit holders in that state, and Philadelphia made the news for a similar disclosure — complete with interactive map and addresses — of hundreds of gun permit applicants and holders.

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So Proud of Gun Ownership (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387223)

Yet such resistance to open up data on it. These are legal guns and these maps allow prospective homeowners to know which neighborhoods are "safer" (one way or the other). Leave it up.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (1, Troll)

jhoegl (638955) | about 2 years ago | (#42387265)

Yup, first amendment vs second amendment.
It is funny to see those gun owners who run to the amendment, get outed by the one right above it.
Really gun owners.... really?

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (5, Insightful)

Major Blud (789630) | about 2 years ago | (#42387277)

According to the article, they obtained the information through "Freedom of Information" laws. By your reasoning, shouldn't I be able to obtain your social security number, credit score, and medical information through the same laws?

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (4, Insightful)

Python (1141) | about 2 years ago | (#42387321)

Indeed. I don't understand why this is public information to begin with. It's no ones business what products I buy or own.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (2)

flyneye (84093) | about 2 years ago | (#42387421)

Wish I hadn't already posted, you sir need a fast-track to insightful.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387479)

It's in the second amendement, right? You can't have a WELL REGULATED militia without record keeping.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (4, Informative)

kimvette (919543) | about 2 years ago | (#42387613)

By "well-regulated militia" the founding fathers meant that individual citizens are trained to use guns, to secure a free state. Free from what? Tyranny and fascism. So, what does "well-regulated" mean? It means that you know how to use that gun to kill tyrants.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387529)

Why is the list of permit holders anybody else's business?

If it's registered with the state or feds it's basically "publicly obtainable information". Cars, businesses, professional licenses, etc. are all public (in one form or another) and searchable (in one form or another). Why should anything else that is registered with the state/feds be any different?

SSN's aren't the same at all and should not be public information. SSN's aren't registered, they are assigned, and all US residents are legally required to have one [wikipedia.org] by the age of one y/o.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387405)

You are an ignorant sheep pussy. Really dork... really?

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (5, Insightful)

Scutter (18425) | about 2 years ago | (#42387269)

Or it's a list of prospective homeowners with property worth stealing. Or a list of people who are trying to hide from abusive exes who got gun permits to protect themselves. Why is the list of permit holders anybody else's business?

More Irrational Gun Nuts (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387285)

Or it's a list of prospective homeowners with property worth stealing. Or a list of people who are trying to hide from abusive exes who got gun permits to protect themselves. Why is the list of permit holders anybody else's business?

So it's gun ownership at the cost of everything else -- including freedom of speech (a civil liberty), huh? You gun nuts are fucking crazy.

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (2, Insightful)

Scutter (18425) | about 2 years ago | (#42387309)

So, the best response you could come up with is an ad hominem attack and profanity? Nice.

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (1)

iggymanz (596061) | about 2 years ago | (#42387387)

don't forget posting as anonymous chickenshit too

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387495)

No, the response he came up with was to refer to the First Amendment, which gun nuts are conveniently ignoring, and thus are probably not mentally stable enough to own a gun.

Ad Hominem means "You insulted people instead of presenting an argument", not "Even though you presented a logical and coherent argument, I'm going to pretend it's invalid because you also happened to insult people and use naughty words while presenting it. And because I have no counter-argument".

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (1)

flyneye (84093) | about 2 years ago | (#42387513)

I think there's an app for that!

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about 2 years ago | (#42387583)

If i was a burglar i'd want to know what weapon to take to a house. If i know the owner has a hand gun, i can take a bigger one. And then i'd also know which houses i didn't need to take a weapon with me.

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (3, Insightful)

flyneye (84093) | about 2 years ago | (#42387483)

Well when the paper uses it's free speech to endanger the lives and property of others by noting for criminals which houses are unprotected and may be burglarized without fear of adding a felony gun crime to possible charges when a crowbar will do. On the other hand if one has a gun and wants another it becomes easier to do your shopping if you know where to go, which really amounts to the paper condoning, hell, even facilitating future " gun crimes", how extremely profitable for the paper. Not so much for free speech or free people. This is an example of the fatal error of slackly publicly educated liberals ignorantly shouting FIRE! in a theatre to generate headlines of people being trampled. UYYEAAAHHH , free speech alright.....Doh, Homer!

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about 2 years ago | (#42387601)

its also useful to people who want guns to wait until the occupier leaves and then steal the gun to use else where.

Re:More Irrational Gun Nuts (1, Interesting)

flayzernax (1060680) | about 2 years ago | (#42387487)

Because its an abuse of the freedoms you have to use to protest something that everyone deserves, its just not right to use constitutional amendments to attack other constitutional amendments, its amounts to mass insanity. It shows how bad our culture has been damaged by the stupid bullshit all the conspiracy nuts are always crying about.

Why is the list of permit holders anybody ... (3, Interesting)

Tim Ward (514198) | about 2 years ago | (#42387381)

... else's business?

Maybe I'm trying to work out where I'm going to live, and want to avoid neighbourhoods that are so dangerous that their residents think they need guns.

Re:Why is the list of permit holders anybody ... (1)

L473ncy (987793) | about 2 years ago | (#42387473)

A better metric to measure is to try and order pizza to the new house and see if the pizza place has any restrictions or just straight up won't deliver to that neighbourhood.

Re:Why is the list of permit holders anybody ... (2, Interesting)

dgatwood (11270) | about 2 years ago | (#42387517)

I think the comparison to the sex offenders map is apt. This map serves as a perfect counterbalance to that registered sex offenders map.

You see, there's a fine line between self defense and vigilantism. Whenever somebody gets raped or a child goes missing, there's a heightened risk of violence against people on the sex offenders list because everybody assumes they did it. Since random gun owners now know where former sex offenders live, it's only fair that the knowledge be mutual. :-)

Re:Why is the list of permit holders anybody ... (-1, Flamebait)

Barsteward (969998) | about 2 years ago | (#42387621)

"....so dangerous that their residents think they need guns."

i think its more of not wanting live where a lot of dickless live who think they need a gun to have a dick.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (4, Insightful)

JWSmythe (446288) | about 2 years ago | (#42387605)

    I see this ass an introduction on how a newspaper can be involved as a conspirator or accomplice to a variety of crimes.

    I've known people who get firearms permits for all kinds of reasons. Some people get them to protect themselves because of their line of work. Like managers of stores carry because they are transporting the end of day cash to the bank. Some people get them for self defense after threat or action has threatened their lives. Some just do it because they do have the right.

    In one jurisdiction, at least it was, off-duty police couldn't carry their firearms unless they had a permit. Their weapon went in the trunk of their car at the end of the shift, and then they moved it from the trunk to their home. So virtually all police officers were also concealed carry permit holders.

    I am concealed weapons holder. I've carried a few times, for need. If I lived there, I really wouldn't want my name and address published. I'd be furious.

    This list is not a list to inform. A dot map without specific names and addresses would have done that job. What they've done is made public a shopping list for criminals. They know they can observe a residence for a while, learn the patterns of the occupants, and when they aren't home, rob it. There's an increased chance of finding a home containing firearms.

    While B&E to a home can get them some pretty high value items, not many items are as compact and easy to transport, and as valuable on the black market, as a firearm. A $500 pistol that can fit in your pocket can bring double that on the black market. A $500 TV doesn't fit in your pocket, and will only sell at a small percent of it's list price.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42387297)

They could be targeted by anti-gun zealots.
It's like publishing a map which pinpoints where the jews are. Maybe they should put a star on their houses.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387333)

They could be targeted by anti-gun zealots. It's like publishing a map which pinpoints where the jews are. Maybe they should put a star on their houses.

You're really going to compare antisemitism to anti-gun sentiment? Show me one case of an anti-gun zealot doing anything wrong against a pro-gun owner. Just one is all I ask, never mind a Holocaust.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387371)

This article is one example.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 2 years ago | (#42387335)

They could be targeted by anti-gun zealots.
It's like publishing a map which pinpoints where the jews are. Maybe they should put a star on their houses.

.....You're comparing jews to guns?

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42387497)

I'm comparing arbitrary criteria that can be used for discrimination.
I used jews as a referential since people have usually been indoctrinated that discrimination against jews is particularly bad.

Discriminating people based on religion or ethnicity makes as much sense as discriminating them based on what they own. (which is, in both cases, none).

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387355)

Laughing criminal no permit other criminal but the map said you did not, bang.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (1)

flyneye (84093) | about 2 years ago | (#42387401)

It also reduces the effectiveness of neighborhood protection and even home protection by charting who does and effectivly, who doesn't own a gun.
It makes it a clear market for home break ins. Know when to take a gun or when to take a crowbar, the paper just made it easier for crime to happen,facilitated it, advertised it and now can be blamed and sued for endangering the lives of both gun owners and non-gun owners. You're a real fart smeller...er..smart feller , aren't you?

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0)

flayzernax (1060680) | about 2 years ago | (#42387413)

The problem is, fuckin Nazi's no one remembers how bad things were and can get so we just fuck with each other in the most petty ways imaginable.

THIS IS A PETTY IMMATURE AND FUCKING IMBICILIC ACTION. YES ALL MOTHERFUCKING CAPS.

I served in the goddamned U.S. Motherfucking Army and I am pissed to see American's with this god damned YUPPI AFLUENZIC fucking attitude.

Oh and by the way Merry Xmas, continue along, as I support your right to be a total dipshit.

But fuck me if I don't point out that it angers me.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (1)

flayzernax (1060680) | about 2 years ago | (#42387429)

Its not about rights, morals, or ethics, its about having an attitude conducive to freedom, liberty, and all that good shit that happens on the weekends.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (4, Insightful)

lightknight (213164) | about 2 years ago | (#42387459)

OMFG, this is such a bad idea! They've just publicly announced, for every felon nearby, which homes to search for a weapon!

It's going to be like the Walmart of guns! "Bob, age 32, drives to work every day at 9 AM...has a dog, Mr. Scruffles...leaves his garage door unlocked. Well, we know he has a gun, probably in the closet or under his pillow. Let's pick it up after he leaves for work, I feel naked walking around without a gun after prison..."

Why don't you publish the names, addresses, and photos of children in the local area whose parents get home late! It's about that level of FAIL.

They've single-handedly just increased the number of gun deaths and home invasions. *golf clap* Well played, well played.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (1)

hawkeyeMI (412577) | about 2 years ago | (#42387577)

This, it's totally irresponsible.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387467)

Except guns are very valuable and with such a map i guarantee there will be a rash of breakin and thefts of guns, then ebcause of the newspaper that published the list there are many more guns in the hands of criminals.

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387503)

I'm afraid I can't speak directly to the American context, but as a Canadian I think this is a terrible misapplication of free speech. I am a firearm owner (and it's worth pointing out I don't have a constitutional right to do so, I've simply complied with statutory requirements such as a firearm safety course, background checks, and agree to comply with storage and reporting requirements). Part of my responsibility as a firearm owner is to ensure that my firearms are safely and securely stored in such a way that they don't fall into the "wrong" (i.e.; anyone who isn't me) hands. As it stands they're locked inside a steel gun safe, which I've recessed into a wall and hidden behind a bookshelf that can swing out of the way. The firearms are additionally equipped with trigger locks, and where possible I've removed the firing pins and discretely set them aside. Oh, and I don't store ammunition in the house, I just buy what I need at the range and discharge it up there the same day. But because I have an obligation to do *everything* I can to ensure the secure storage of those firearms, I additionally don't tell people I have firearms. I don't have to worry about some kid trying to come in and steal something they don't even know I have. It's a very small number of people who know what's in my collection, and I've only told those people so that they can deal with the firearms should anything ever happen to me (by that I don't mean firearm related, but should I get in a car accident tonight and someone needs to clear out my house they should probably know about the safe, right?)

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about 2 years ago | (#42387543)

It just proves the right to privacy is meaningless if you have to tell the government what you are doing, buying and owning.

This practice will just make gun owners buy their stuff "illegally."

Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership (1)

seededfury (699094) | about 2 years ago | (#42387581)

80% or so of the gun crimes in america are because of stolen guns. This map will make it much easier for criminals to locate guns for their crimes. awesome idea.

AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387229)

AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob.

Re:AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387249)

AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob.

Conversely, half a million guns are stolen in the United States every year.

Re:AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387385)

Interestingly, half a million guns are not kept in a safe in the United States every year.

Re:AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob. (4, Insightful)

romco (61131) | about 2 years ago | (#42387325)

>AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob.

Unless you are looking for guns.

Re:AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob. (2)

lightknight (213164) | about 2 years ago | (#42387469)

Exactly. They've just destroyed the element of surprise for those homeowners. Might as well have posted the security codes to their alarm systems.

Re:AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob. (5, Insightful)

cervesaebraciator (2352888) | about 2 years ago | (#42387531)

Which gives lie to this sort of stunt. Ostensibly, you do this sort of thing for public safety. But if you facilitate the theft of guns, by definition you're helping to remove guns from the hands of people who follow laws and put them in the hands of criminals. Nevertheless, this sort of stunt is done because the issue is political and you have to win political battles because the other side is full of bad people.

Re:AKA A map of which houses NOT to rob. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387505)

A map of houses where you shoot-at-sight if you meet anyone while robbing.

So... Question, (2, Interesting)

skovnymfe (1671822) | about 2 years ago | (#42387231)

All these people that shoot up eachother, are their guns legal or are they illegal?

Re:So... Question, (1, Insightful)

Smallpond (221300) | about 2 years ago | (#42387423)

Columbine and Newtown school shootings were both with legally acquired guns in the wrong hands. Robberies and drug deal shootings frequently use illegal (hence less traceable) guns.

Re:So... Question, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387437)

The vast majority were legally produced and sold, from there on the trail (predictably) becomes hard to follow.

The criminals are thankful this holiday season (0)

b5bartender (2175066) | about 2 years ago | (#42387237)

for now they know which homes not to invade.

Re:The criminals are thankful this holiday season (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387253)

Or which homes to watch for when their owners go on vacation... then invade.

Re:The criminals are thankful this holiday season (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387267)

Actually now they know which homes to watch to be empty and invade so they can get guns.

Re:The criminals are thankful this holiday season (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387271)

I think it's worse than that. I think they now know which homes to burgalarize when no one is home, and steal guns. Recently, the home of a sheriff's deputy nearby was burgalarized and his dog shot. They caught the teens that had done it since they left DNA at the scene, but when questioned they said they had picked that house because they were looking specifically for weapons.

A map for crime (4, Insightful)

Python (1141) | about 2 years ago | (#42387243)

So basically its a map of people without guns, and therefore excellent homes to invade and rob. Thanks Journal News! Douch bags.

Re:A map for crime (2)

lightknight (213164) | about 2 years ago | (#42387493)

Both, actually. Homes that aren't marked are safer to rob, while homes which are marked are now offering a gun-special.

Criminal Shopping List (4, Insightful)

micron (164661) | about 2 years ago | (#42387245)

This is just a great example of responsible journalism. Now the criminals know exactly where to go to get firearms that will never be traced back to them.

Re:Criminal Shopping List (3, Interesting)

Rockoon (1252108) | about 2 years ago | (#42387313)

..and then which places to invade after they have a firearm.

Re:Criminal Shopping List (3, Insightful)

Python (1141) | about 2 years ago | (#42387337)

That, and which homes are also the safest to rob. All in all, a bang up job for the journal! Really, this should call attention to the poor privacy laws in New York. This kind of information should not be public.

That info could already be obtained by criminals (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387373)

The difference now is that they have a browsing wy to check for it. So it makes it easier for them, but neither it was difficult before publication.

Re:Criminal Shopping List (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387575)

I am a gun owner in northern British Columbia. I venture to say that 3/4 of the homes here have some sort of firearm. I would not use my firearms to stop a would be robber. I keep my firearms locked up. I deplore the violence that has happened in the schools and malls etc. What bothers me too is when people shrug and say "shit happens." Where I work, twice people have made comments to the effect that they should bring a firearm to work and "clean up." That made me shudder. (The first person has since passed away and the second one I reported). Just as we are people of a multitude of physical ailments, so there are the whole gammit of mental "issues". It isn't only killers who are sick. Whether we are newspapers or anyone else, we have the ability to tear down or build up, to be supportive and offer constructive criticism.

The price of freedom of the press... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387259)

Ha! very good initiative from this New York newspaper.
There's nothing illegal publishing public records, and it has one heavy effect. It puts shame on gun owners.
Make it a socially reprehensible act to possess fire arms (even though it's not illegal) and you'll see how fast people's attitude towards guns will change for the better. And the good news ? You don't have to get Congress involved, or the NRA etc...
Just public shame.

Re:The price of freedom of the press... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387457)

This doesn't shame gun owners. Many gun owners are fairly open regarding their gun collection, and are more than willing to take friends and family to the range with them.

As many have already pointed out, it will allow criminals the chance to choose their targets better.

Re:The price of freedom of the press... (1)

donny77 (891484) | about 2 years ago | (#42387553)

I doubt it provides any shame. Those who support the second amendment view this as a privacy violation. We are already used to our friends and family that are anti-gun complaining ;-P

Re:The price of freedom of the press... (2, Insightful)

lightknight (213164) | about 2 years ago | (#42387567)

Uhh, no. No shame in owning a weapon. Instead, they just announced who to rob, and who to rob during the day when the home's occupants are at work. Because a fair number of felons acquire guns after leaving prison, and this newspaper just handed them a holiday shopping list. Merry Christmas everyone!

I'm sure the people with guns will be happy knowing that their homes may be ransacked by criminals looking for their guns (worth more than jewelry), while the people without will be happy knowing that criminals now know that they do not possess any firearm, and so can murder / rape / whatever them without fear of dad or mom busting out a .44. "My dad is going to shoot you!" "No he isn't; Bob here has that gun permit map thingy from that journal a while back loaded up on his phone, and it says neither you, nor any of your neighbors have any guns. Now Bob here...he hasn't seen a woman in years, on account of him being on the inside, so I'm gonna go make some popcorn while the two of you get comfortable."

Ah, right... (1)

Millennium (2451) | about 2 years ago | (#42387279)

Because, as we all know, only bad people have guns, or even want them.

bad idea (1)

AxemRed (755470) | about 2 years ago | (#42387289)

I'm not sure what they're hoping to do other than to harass law-abiding gun owners, but this is a bad idea regardless. It will give criminals a list of people who have guns at their houses. It may make them safer from break-ins by criminals looking for some easy cash and no trouble, but it could make them targets for criminals who are specifically trying to get a hold of guns.

Re:bad idea (1, Troll)

aaarrrgggh (9205) | about 2 years ago | (#42387395)

And if your gun is properly locked up, how is that going to happen?

Re:bad idea (2)

houghi (78078) | about 2 years ago | (#42387599)

[About how robbers would get your gun when that gun is locked up]
They put a gun to your kids head (or a knife to their throat) and politely ask for the key to the guns.
Now it is up to you to use your right to defend yourself with said gun and shoot the robber. Extra points if your kid gets away unharmed.

Pinebrow bouldvard forest avenue (1)

aepervius (535155) | about 2 years ago | (#42387301)

Is this sector udner another administration county ? What is there ? It seems to be in the middle of the zone but quasi empty of guns.

Re:Pinebrow bouldvard forest avenue (1)

Smallpond (221300) | about 2 years ago | (#42387451)

I remember looking at a voter turnout map. One county had a very high population but almost no poll responses or voters. Turned out to be where the prison was located.

I quit (2, Funny)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387303)

Dear America,

I have tried and tried to defend you and get you to see just how idiotic you all are. I've attempted to defend your right to pirate and your right to defend your opinions. However, I believed in the Constitution wholeheartedly. I had believed the good in all, even the lousiest men. However, time and again, you have shown only the dark, ugly side of you, beginning with the war on Rebecca Black's Friday. You all make me ashamed to be an American right now, letting the government seduce you into thinking that guns are bad simply because one maniac decided to let loose on an elementary school.

Removing guns will not solve anything, in fact it will cause more problems. Our will is slowly being drained as they try to pass more and more laws restricting our freedoms, taking away our pride, and eventually turning us into slaves. I came from the 1990s, the final decade where we didn't let government tell us what to do, we all had individual thoughts and cared for the whole rather than ourselves

The internet, while a fantastic tool, has only reinforced the point I have been trying to make. It has made us less unique and forced us to think like a bee hive - all the same thoughts and act in the same way. What happened to being different? Right, being different means you are either gay, a Nazi, or pathetic. Well, call me all those names, but I'm through sticking up for this sorry-ass country I live in. It sickens me to admit I actually tried to defend you and the Constitution.

Now that gun owners are being tracked, it tells me that the final stages are being put forth along with our loss of ownership over photos. Good job, America, you've screwed yourself on all levels. Would you like to be chain and whipped or held in concentration camps while your so-called "government" protects you?

Re:I quit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387363)

I've attempted to defend your right to pirate

Taking something that isn't yours is called stealing and it's not a right. You lose all credibility with this sentence.

Re:I quit (1)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387369)

Freedom of speech.

Re:I quit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387407)

Pirating has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Re:I quit (1)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387435)

So says the AC. If you really believed in that, show your face.

Re:I quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387465)

So your birth name is Jetra? You have a single name like Prince or Seal?

Re:I quit (1)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387565)

Stop going AC you cowardly bastard.

Re:I quit (2)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 2 years ago | (#42387383)

Copyright infringement is called rape, actually. Get it right!

Re:I quit (1)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387415)

Those copyrights are BS and you know it. Life + 45? WTH!?

Re:I quit (1)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387391)

And nice going AC because you don't want to lose your karma.

Re:I quit (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 2 years ago | (#42387403)

Taking something that isn't yours is called stealing

True. However, when you pirate something you don't steal anything.

Re:I quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387545)

Yes you do

stealing present participle of steal (Verb)
Verb
Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".
Dishonestly pass off (another person's ideas) as one's own: "accusations that one group had stolen ideas from the other were soon flying".

Re:I quit (1)

cervesaebraciator (2352888) | about 2 years ago | (#42387461)

Wow. I never looked at it that way. When you take something that's not yours, the other person doesn't have it anymore. People who've pirated books, it seems, are taking something that's not theirs and so they really ought to give them back. Otherwise, the publishers won't have books anymore. How will people have access to knowledge if the publishers have all their books stolen?

Re:I quit (4, Insightful)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 2 years ago | (#42387439)

That's what happens when people get obsessed with safety. Freedoms are sacrificed to get safety, and sometimes the safety received isn't even real. That is precisely why we have the TSA, the Patriot Act, and other such nonsense, and why people try so hard to get rid of guns. They'd rather remove people's freedoms than accept a few casualties.

Re:I quit (2)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387499)

Isn't there a nice balance or do we just think in extreme black and white?

Re:I quit (1)

dgatwood (11270) | about 2 years ago | (#42387539)

beginning with the war on Rebecca Black's Friday.

It began with the war on drugs. If everyone were stoned enough, that song would freaking rock.

Re:I quit (1)

Jetra (2622687) | about 2 years ago | (#42387587)

True dat.

Consider this map of Gun Deaths By State (5, Insightful)

wombatmobile (623057) | about 2 years ago | (#42387317)

Does gun ownership make for a safer, better, society, or something else? Statistical correlation is not the same thing as causality, but what do these facts [goo.gl] tell us?

Re:Consider this map of Gun Deaths By State (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387399)

I'd suggest you temper your map with some localized information from these charts http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leadingcauses.html. You'll see that a simple map of "injury from a firearm" almost always includes suicides.

The concerning part is the illogical application of constitutional amendments here. If I published a list of all the people who commented on political forums in 2012 with their home address would that be okay?

Re:Consider this map of Gun Deaths By State (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387433)

Those are some pretty weak correlations but hey, whatever suits your anti-gun agenda. Don't worry fruitcakes. You'll probably get your wish some day and then you can just cower and hope you don't die in the shootouts between cops and criminals.

Re:Consider this map of Gun Deaths By State (1)

Major Blud (789630) | about 2 years ago | (#42387491)

Except those facts clearly state acts of suicide and self-defense. Move along please.

Re:Consider this map of Gun Deaths By State (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387527)

They tell you nothing. For one, "gun deaths" have nothing to do with the actual number of homicides committed using firearms. The phrase "gun deaths" is used by those pushing an agenda because they get to pump up their numbers with suicides (which would occur with or without guns). Suicides account for more than two-thirds of the "gun deaths" in the US, and our suicide rate doesn't even come close to matching many other countries (including ones such as South Korea and Japan where gun ownership is severely restricted).

As far as murder rate, the US is relatively far down the list with approximately 4.2 per 100,000. Compare this to ~91 per 100,000 for Honduras.

In other words, when you look at this from a neutral angle rather than trying to push one side or another things don't seem as dire as they appear.

Laugh.. (1)

koan (80826) | about 2 years ago | (#42387339)

Is that supposed to shame people? Because now they will need their guns for self defense from nutjobs.

Seen the new Dredd movie? Still think we don't have a problem with ultra violent media?

Pointless exercise (1)

Lawrence_Bird (67278) | about 2 years ago | (#42387349)

though in some respects it makes me want to get a permit as my neighborhood appears undefended. Hmm.. maybe thats the point of it? Left out of all of this is that NY does not require permits for shotguns or rifles.

Re:Pointless exercise (3, Insightful)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 2 years ago | (#42387585)

Which is an exceedingly important fact. While handguns and long guns go together like .... well, I'll leave it to your imaginations - lots of people have one or the other. So the only utility of this map is to annoy gun owners and make some sort of social noise (ooh, lots of people have guns).

Let's rephrase it: This is a map of people with registered handguns. Not rifles, not caches of ammunition, diesel and ammonium nitrate (those are the people you want to have a reasonable buffer around), not unregistered guns. So it tells you - not much.

Want to see who has more disposable income? Check out property values. Look at cars.
Want to see how many people have alarm systems? Stumble around Google Maps or for heaven's sake, walk around a neighborhood ('case the joint').

It's a dick move and won't help move the discussion very far, but that's journalism.

great idea (2)

Dolphinzilla (199489) | about 2 years ago | (#42387477)

lets give everyone another reason to buy guns on the black/gray market and not register them - that is utter stupidity

Re:great idea (1)

Dolphinzilla (199489) | about 2 years ago | (#42387523)

oh and lets make sure criminals know where they can go to break in and steal guns - on the other hand maybe a lot of criminals will get shot and killed, I can only hope that such irresponsible journalism has visible consequences.

List of homes not to f*ck with. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387551)

I now know which homes aren't safe to break into, wonder if any of those people would be sympathetic towards their neighbors if I broke into those homes.

Brilliant (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387561)

Being aware of the presence of a gun and whether it is in a safe mode is essential when children are involved.

So... I have just looked at the map, and discovered that my little nephews live next to gun owners on three sides. Their parents now know this, and can ensure that their neighbors properly "safe" their weapons if they are at their house.

IMHO, this was a very important community service.

Nice List (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42387563)

Either a shopping list for burglars who want to steal guns, or a list of addresses not to burglarize for fear of being shot.

Here in Florida, concealed carry license holders' information was removed from public record ages ago.

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