Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Israel To Get Massive Countrywide Optical Upgrade

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the just-in-time-for-the-censorship dept.

Networking 157

A Google Fiberhood-style rollout in the U.S., says a Goldman-Sachs estimate, would cost in the neighborhood of $140 billion. Even for Israel, a country approximately the size of New Jersey, there's a high pricetag ("billions of shekels") for installing fiber optics dense enough to reach most of the population, but just a massive fiber-optic rollout is planned, with the project led by Swedish firm Viaeuropa. If the scheme succeeds, it will cover two thirds of the country over the next 10 years or so.

cancel ×

157 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

LG or SONY ?? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405393)

I hope LG !! Korea RULEZ !!

better make it rocketproof (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405397)

And I would be interested to find out if they run it to the settlements, or just the west J and metro areas.

That high? (-1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405403)

Israel has about the population of NYC and it will cost $140 Billion? We are talking $20,000 per person which seems incredibly high, especially when you consider the small amount of land. How can it possibly cost this much?

Re:That high? (1, Informative)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405429)

The $140B estimate is for the entire US, according to TFA. That's about $450/person.

Re:That high? (1, Informative)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405455)

Whoops. I guess I am guilty of quickly scanning. I'd assumed that because the title was about Israel that the first amount shown would be for the cost to Israel. Please mod my OP down.

Re:That high? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405625)

To put that in perspective, it is slightly less than the 2010 USA Navy budget (149 billion) :)

Re:That hight? No, it's extortion. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405723)

Goldman-Sachs estimate is a bunch of B.S. The baby Bells in the late 80s to mid 90s rolled out fiber to cover the entire U.S., this is just posturing by G.S. to extract more money from the citizens by justifying metered internet or promoting a paying only for packets sent, yet receiving packets are free. F u k u Neocons some day soon Americans will awake from their slumber.

Re:That hight? No, it's extortion. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406027)

The baby Bells in the late 80s to mid 90s rolled out fiber to cover the entire U.S.

Pretty impressive considering I thought they were more focused on the processed cheese market.

Re:That high? (1)

MrDoh! (71235) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406469)

And it's also by a Goldman Sachs analyst who /might/ have an interest in valuing the cost as higher than it actually is.

Re:That high? (1)

joocemann (1273720) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407637)

The $140B estimate is for the entire US, according to TFA. That's about $450/person.

LETS DO THIS AND GET DONE WITH ALL THE CURRENT CRAP!

Infrastructure has been a great investment. Right now we spend all our infrastructure money on the DoD in one form or another and we could cut it in half and still be awesome.

LETS DO THIS! Someone with time please organize a petition!

Re:That high? (1)

nschubach (922175) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405435)

It's worded funny. I don't think there's a dollar amount applied to the Israel rollout. Just "The project will cost billions of shekels to deploy some 25,000 kilometers of fiber optics"

Re:That high? (4, Informative)

nschubach (922175) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405451)

Sorry to repost, but I just did a Google conversion: 1,000,000,000 Israeli New Sheqel equals 268,190,000 US Dollars

Re:That high? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407649)

Everyone seems to care about converting to USD? Is that because they think it will be paid for with USD? Maybe so...

Re:That high? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405461)

The way I read it is that it would cost $140B to roll out fiber over the entire United States.
Israel would be "billions of shekels", what that is in USD I have no idea.

Re:That high? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405537)

its all taxes to fight their wars

i sold an old iphone 4 to someone in israel for $200. it costs a lot more if you buy it locally there

Re:That high? (1)

iamhassi (659463) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406223)

Israel has about the population of NYC and it will cost $140 Billion? We are talking $20,000 per person which seems incredibly high, especially when you consider the small amount of land. How can it possibly cost this much?

It doesn't, but why bother at all? Run the fiber to my house so I can hook it to my wireless router? Why not just stick with wireless to begin with? 4G is 100mbps, already faster than the 802.11g most people are using with their wifi router, why would anyone waste billions on fiber when they can just offer 4G? And 10 yrs from now we'll probably all have 5G or 6G, just five years ago in 2007 4G didn't even exist and now we all have 4G cellphones. Landlines are dead, stick with wireless.

Re:That high? (1)

BitZtream (692029) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407315)

Other than wasting spectrum?

How about the ease in taking down a single tower rather than cutting several lines to kill a large populations connectivity.

Wireless is a stupid solution to any problem that involves a stationary target. Its often times short term easy and short term less expensive, but eventually when you have no more spectrum, you're fucked. Welcome to America's current spectrum issue, morons who thought 'lets just make it wireless!' when it doesn't need to be.

Re:That high? (1)

blackraven14250 (902843) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407903)

4G is shared between so many people that you're never going to get 100 mbps.

Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it too (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405449)

Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it too? Kinda useless considering their isp only gives access to 400 orthodox enough sites.

captcha: Hooker

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405647)

Illegal settlements? Citation needed.

Settlements on land claimed by Israel after Israel was attacked in an attempt to destroy Israel and take over Israeli land? RTFA.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405759)

Dude, wake up... even the Israeli Prime Minister acknowledges that many current and planned settlements are in violation of internationally-recognized borders, and he openly admits that he doesn't give a rat's ass. When even the puppets running the institution that you are white-knighting for decide that defending their actions is a waste of time, it may be time for you to take up a different hobby.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405939)

"Internationally-recognized borders". Hmm. Just when and how were these "borders" established? The 1948 armistice agreement delineating them specifically disclaims any establishment of "borders". UN Resolution 232, the most usually cited authority on "international recognition" of the so-called "pre-1967 borders" is in fact deliberately vague on the subject. Why should any Israeli give a rat's ass about these "borders"?

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406025)

Because nearly every nation in the world soundly denounces their actions as "illegal" and "infringing upon internationally-recognized borders". Here's about eight pages of citations: https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+illegal+settlements&tbm=nws.

Play semantics all you want, but it doesn't change the facts: they know what they are doing is wrong, and they don't care, so why do you give a crap when somebody calls them on it?

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406623)

Only the piece of shit anti-semite, arab, nazi fuckers denounce them. Everyone who has intelligence do not. So no, as is accepted by the intelligencia of the world, Israel has not done anything wrong. And what garbage like you has to say... does not matter.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407069)

Oh, please... This "only nazi say bad things about Israel" BS got tired a long ago.

Don't you have a newer lame excuse instead of that?

What happened to the so inventive "superior ashkenazi IQ [wikipedia.org] "?

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407107)

Nice. So, everyone else in the world is wrong except for you and your good buddy the US? Because that's who you just called "piece of shit anti-semite, arab, nazi fuckers." That's indicative of a serious mental condition which you should have checked out at your earliest convenience.

Is everyone who introduces you to the facts "garbage," or does that only apply to people not born into the tribe?

Nazi, indeed...

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406741)

Don't defend yourself. Sounds great.

Next time someone breaks into your house, make sure you tell yourself not to harm the intruder. Not the perfect analogy, but damn close.

Israel wants to pull out their military from those areas, but terrorist organizations keep attacking the local legal Israel people and the local authorities refuse to help.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407127)

So, the obvious solution is to establish civilian settlements in those areas? Genius! If only we'd used this tactic in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (2)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407475)

Because nearly every nation in the world soundly denounces their actions as "illegal" and "infringing upon internationally-recognized borders.

Ah, yes. The sacred and infallible will of the majority of UN members [wikipedia.org] must be respected.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1, Insightful)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407695)

Here's a video showing how the United Nations is now acting in a way contrary to its founding principles. This is because the Organization of Islamic Countries and Non-Alignment movement have created a voting bloc. This is why there are bogus resolutions in the UN where criticism of religion (eg. the iron-age barbaric death cult of Islam; read the Qur'an and hadiths, they are true hate speech!) is equivalent to hate speech. Then we have the ITU grasp of the Internet for the purposes of censorship. Here's the video explaining how the UN came to be so corrupted against Englightenment values (and countries with them):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Mupoo1At8 [youtube.com]

Here's a video showing how sneaky resolutions against Free Speech are being worded and passed in the UN (OIC up to its tricks again):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Zp4ulrO9c [youtube.com]

While we're at it, here is are a couple of videos explaining the situation in the Middle East from a historical perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hTOaRu7h4 [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ByJb7QQ9U [youtube.com]

So, Mr Anonymous Coward, your citations are pretty much irrelevant because the United Nations has been making resolutions based on the political totalitarian ideology currently passing bogus resolutions in the UN.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407849)

blah blah blah Look! We're better than Iran, so let us go on stealing water and wiping our ass with the 4th Geneva Convention, because we're a democracy blah blah blah

missing from your bar graph : millions of dead caused by the US.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | about a year and a half ago | (#42408229)

missing from your bar graph : millions of dead caused by the US.

I call bullshit. Citation required for "millions" dead caused directly by the US.

stealing water and wiping our ass with the 4th Geneva Convention,

I call bullshit. Citation required for stealing water. What do you mean by "wiping our ass"?

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407801)

"Internationally-recognized borders". Hmm. Just when and how were these "borders" established? The 1948 armistice agreement delineating them specifically disclaims any establishment of "borders". UN Resolution 232, the most usually cited authority on "international recognition" of the so-called "pre-1967 borders" is in fact deliberately vague on the subject.

The borders were established in the 1994 treaty between Israel and Jordan. Incidentally, it gives the whole West Bank to Israel. Go look it up.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406357)

Dude, wake up...

I'm not wearing a bathrobe, don't call me dude.

even the Israeli Prime Minister acknowledges that many current and planned settlements are in violation of internationally-recognized borders,

I don't think there's much debate that many countries don't recognize these territories. Why shouldn't he acknowledge the stated opinions of other countries?

and he openly admits that he doesn't give a rat's ass.

Again, why should he? I don't think it's a newsflash that the countries that attacked Israel and then lost territory [wikipedia.org] are upset about it.
Question for you: If Israel had lost territory during the war, would you be clamoring for Jordan, Syria, or Egypt to return it to them?

When even the puppets running the institution that you are white-knighting for decide that defending their actions is a waste of time,

Puppets? Really? Think about exactly who you're defending here.

it may be time for you to take up a different hobby.

My hobby is enlightening the ignorant, and I will never give it up. There is too much to be done.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406557)

Dude, from the very page you're citing [wikipedia.org] :

The war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields after a period of high tension that included an Israeli raid into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank,[11][12] Israeli initiated aerial clashes over Syrian territory,[13] Syrian artillery attacks against Israeli settlements in the vicinity of the border followed by Israeli response against Syrian positions in the Golan Heights and encroachments of increasing intensity and frequency (initiated by Israel) into the demilitarized zones along the Syrian border[14] and culminating in the Egyptian imposition of a naval blockade on Eilat and ordering of the evacuation from the Sinai Peninsula of the U.N. buffer force.

(emphasis mine). Now go back to your hobby. As you say, much to be done.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406559)

I don't think there's much debate that many countries don't recognize these territories. Why shouldn't he acknowledge the stated opinions of other countries?

Because 'other countries' enabled the creation of Israel through UN Resolution 181.

I don't think it's a newsflash that the countries that attacked Israel and then lost territory are upset about it.

We don't recognize the accumulation of territory by force as being legitimate. Germany attacked the allies and lost. Ultimately, the victors didn't keep Germany.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (3, Informative)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406671)

We don't recognize the accumulation of territory by force as being legitimate

Nonsense. If this were the case:

Acquisition of territory by force has happened all through history, is continuing to happen, and will continue to happen for the forseeable future. The supposed illegitimacy of this practice is used as a tool to demonize Israel, but it's completely ignored when anyone else does it.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

nbauman (624611) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406877)

That was then, this is now.

After the Second World War and the Nurenberg trials, a bunch of international lawyers (many of them Jewish, I'm proud to say) got together and wrote a set of international laws and agreements, including the Geneva conventions, which most countries signed, which would prevent acquisition of territory by force from ever happening again.

So now it violates international law. And Israel is violating international law.

What Israel's right-wing government is doing also violates basic intelligence. If you want your country to be safe and secure, don't make enemies of everybody in the world. You saw how well that worked for Germany.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (3, Insightful)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406979)

That was then, this is now.

Well, how conveeeenient. We (the USA, Russia, etc.) have grabbed all the territory we need, so now we'll make what we did illegal and grandfather ourselves.

There have certainly been other land grabs since the Geneva conventions (Turkey grabbing northern Cyprus; Russia grabbing Abkhazia and South Ossetia) and yet we don't see the hate-fueled virulent outcry against Turkey and Russia that we see against Israel.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407193)

Yes, it's quite convenient. Sorry that Israel, a country formed by a consensus of the international community, missed out on the opportunity to gobble up territory through military conflict due to restrictions put into place by the international community. How terrible it is for Israel to be unable to legitimately expand its borders by waging bloody conflicts, as it has traditionally done throughout history.

Do you really understand what it is you're arguing for here? Are you really that fucking stupid?

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (2)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407431)

I am arguing for Israel to be treated by the international community (wrt to annexation of territory) exactly the way other countries such as Russia, China and Turkey are treated.

Or if you like, treat those countries the way Israel is treated. But at least have some fairness and consistency.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

nbauman (624611) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407307)

Take it to the International Criminal Court.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407455)

Take it to the International Criminal Court.

That court doesn't have jurisdiction over Israel since Israel never signed on.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42408129)

It will soon once Palestine signs the Rome treaty. Only one party needs to be a signatory.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (3, Insightful)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406991)

If you want your country to be safe and secure, don't make enemies of everybody in the world.

What's the alternative? If Israel evacuated the West Bank today, it would have rockets landing in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem tomorrow.

There is no solution to the problem. The best Israel can do is keep a lid on the violence and make sure it only proceeds at a low-level. Eventually, it may find a real peace partner in the Palestinians. But I'm not optimistic. Even the "moderate" Palestinians say very different things in Arabic to their own constituency compared to what they say in English for the international community.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407241)

What's the alternative? If Israel evacuated the West Bank today, it would have rockets landing in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem tomorrow.

That is a false dichotomy used to perpetuate the status quo. True or not, it is no reason for the israeli government to continue with provocative policies like building new settlements.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

dskoll (99328) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407445)

That is a false dichotomy used to perpetuate the status quo.

Easy to say if you live in the US or Canada. Not so easy if you live in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

it is no reason for the israeli government to continue with provocative policies like building new settlements.

I happen to agree. The Israeli government is astoundingly stupid and is compounding Israel's bad PR and international ill-will. Nevertheless, it's one thing to stop building settlements and quite another to withdraw from the West Bank or to expect peace from the Palestinians.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407703)

... but they won't stop building settlements... and that is why rational people with no side to take view Israel's leadership, and thus the state, as a piece of shit. They lie through their teeth about peace-seeking, then perpetually agonize and abuse the underdogs and only because they know nobody can back them up when they have the US behind them.

If the US didn't back Israel, they would not be barking loudly at all. They would be passive and actually peace-seeking. With the way the state acts, Israel will *always* be dependent on the US. No neighbors would ever respect them with the way they act if not for fear of the US.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42408149)

The natives are fighting back so we must continue the ethnic cleansing.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407971)

That was then, this is now.

After the Second World War ...

The Arab League countries invaded Israel and seized the Gaza Strip and West Bank from Israel.
China invaded Tibet.
Russia invaded Eastern European countries that looked to be going independent.
Russia and China invaded South Korea.
The Viet Cong invaded South Vietnam.
Pakistan invaded India repeatedly and seized half of Kashmir.
A fuckton of Russian-puppet forces conquered the independent former European colonies on the grounds of "national liberation".
The Arab League countries invaded Israel again and lost the Gaza Strip and West Bank that they had previously seized from Israel.
Turkey invaded Cyprus and seized half of the island. This happened after 1967. They still occupy the land illegally. Ask yourself why you have not heard of it.
Iran invaded Lebanon and named the Iranian army there "Hezbollah".
The Taliban invaded Afghanistan in 1994 and seized that country several years after it had become independent of the Soviets.
The Muslim Brotherhood invaded Somalia in the early 1990s, led by a man named Osama bin Laden, and seized the southern half of the country.
The Muslim Brotherhood invaded the Yugoslavian region of Bosnia and wiped out most of the rural Serbian population. You have probably heard of this as Serbs ethnically cleansing Bosnian Muslims. The exact opposite happened.
The Muslim Brotherhood invaded the Yugoslavian region of Kosovo and expelled upwards of 80% of the Serbian population.
The Muslim Brotherhood invaded the southern and western provinces of Sudan, slaughtering any non-Muslims they could find and claiming the land for Islam.
The Muslim Brotherhood sacked and burned the smaller Christian communities of Egypt and claimed their land for Islam. You probably heard of this as the "Arab Spring".
The Muslim Brotherhood invaded and conquered Libya, with guns and air support thanks to President Obama.
The Muslim Brotherhood invaded Syria, with guns again provided by President Obama.
Malaysia is sending armed forces into Thailand to slaughter the Buddhists and claim their land for Islam.
The Muslim Brotherhood is slaughtering non-Muslims in northern Nigeria and claiming their land for Islam.
The Muslim Brotherhood invaded Mali and began destroying the old Muslim shrines belonging to a different strain of Islam that they consider to be heresy.

It looks like those international agreements aren't enforced worth shit and they don't apply to Israel's situation anyway.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

nbauman (624611) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406943)

I don't think it's a newsflash that the countries that attacked Israel and then lost territory [wikipedia.org] are upset about it.

Newsflash: Israel attacked.

The war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields after a period of high tension that included an Israeli raid into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank,[11][12] Israeli initiated aerial clashes over Syrian territory,[13] Syrian artillery attacks against Israeli settlements in the vicinity of the border followed by Israeli response against Syrian positions in the Golan Heights and encroachments of increasing intensity and frequency (initiated by Israel) into the demilitarized zones along the Syrian border[14] and culminating in the Egyptian imposition of a naval blockade on Eilat and ordering of the evacuation from the Sinai Peninsula of the U.N. buffer force.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (4, Informative)

MisterMidi (1119653) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405789)

Here's a citation:

Israel dismantled 18 settlements in the Sinai Peninsula in 1982, and all 21 in the Gaza Strip and 4 in the West Bank in 2005, but continues to both expand its settlements and settle new areas in the West Bank in spite of the Oslo Accords, which specified in article 31 that neither side would take any step that would change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations. However, Israeli settlement expansion has continued unabated.The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal. Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem and communities in the Golan Heights, areas which have been annexed by Israel, are also considered settlements by the international community, which does not recognise Israel's annexations of these territories. The United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal, and no foreign government supports Israel's settlements.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

codewarren (927270) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406379)

Actually that's a blockquote. A citation is when you say where you got your info from.

Here's a citation:

A citation is when you say where you got the information from, not when you just put quote tags around it

See what I mean? That's not really a citation... I just put quote tags around my own words.

I suspect you actually copied and pasted that from somewhere instead of making it up yourself, but if you don't cite that source, then it is impossible to tell the difference between sock puppet and actual citation. I see you've been modded up which means people on /. don't really care whether there's a citation or not as long as it sounds official.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (1)

MisterMidi (1119653) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406449)

You're right. I got it from the Israeli settlement page on wikipedia [wikipedia.org] . I was lazy and figured most slashdotters would find it in about 2 seconds :)

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (2)

nbauman (624611) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406791)

The entire international community, including the U.S., the U.N., and the International Court of Justice, consider the settlements to be illegal.

Not only that, but Theodor Meron, the legal counsel of Israel's own Foreign Ministry in September 1967, said so. The Prime Minister’s Office asked him for his opinion on the legality of civilian settlement in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. He wrote that it was clearly illegal: “civilian settlement in the administered territories contravenes the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention.”

So that was the Israeli government's own official legal opinion.

Gershom Gorenberg, an Israeli historian, found a copy of the memo when he was doing research in the archives. http://southjerusalem.com/settlement-and-occupation-historical-documents/ [southjerusalem.com]

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (-1, Troll)

benjfowler (239527) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406113)

Possession is nine tenths of the law. I don't care about the Palestinians if they're too weak or stupid to figure out how to take the land back either with themselves, or with the aid of the mighty Muslim ummah.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (-1, Flamebait)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406225)

Ah, but if they fight to take the land back then they're labelled "terrorists". I guess they should just quietly lie down and let themselves be herded into ghettos, so that Israel can expand its lebensraum.

I wonder when the Israelis are going to start being honest about what they are doing to the Palestinians, and maybe start tattooing numbers on their arms before they slaughter them?

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (2)

crunchygranola (1954152) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406261)

Possession is nine tenths of the law. I don't care about the Palestinians if they're too weak or stupid to figure out how to take the land back either with themselves, or with the aid of the mighty Muslim ummah.

So you are actively encouraging the Palestinians to take up violence against Israel! Interesting position...

NB: If Israel wants to take possession of the West Bank, they need to give full citizenship rights to all of the Palestinians, otherwise they are not a democratic state but an apartheid regime.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406697)

So you are actively encouraging the Palestinians to take up violence against Israel! Interesting position...

Worse yet, he's inciting Muslims to turn to violence against Israel. Stand by for missiles from the East. With nukes.

they need to give full citizenship rights to all of the Palestinians, otherwise they are not a democratic state but an apartheid regime.

Israel would immediately cease to exist as a Jewish state. If the Palesinians don't outnumber them now, they'll easily outbreed them. And then outvote them. Its going to have to be a two state solution. Which means, when the borders are all settled, some of the Jews who built settlements in the West bank will find themselves under a Palestinian government. One can only hope that they will receive the same treatment as Israelis bestow upon Israeli Arabs.

Re:Nice! Wonder if the illegal settlements get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406845)

One can only hope that they will receive the same treatment as Israelis bestow upon Israeli Arabs.

Something tells me they'll receive exactly the same treatment they bestow upon the Israeli Arabs.

New glasses (4, Funny)

Intropy (2009018) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405457)

Anyone else read the headline and think everyone was getting new prescription eyeglasses?

Re:New glasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405591)

More like telescreens [wikipedia.org] . Secure beneath the watchful eyes!

Re:New glasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405977)

Anyone else read the headline and think everyone was getting new prescription eyeglasses?

Great post there. It really added to the topic of conversation and made a really good point with savvy and insight. You must be very intelligent to come up with such thought provoking commentary like that because it was well worth all of our times to read it.

Oh wait, that was just sarcasm at your pointless and stupid comment.

Re:New glasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406197)

Anyone else read the headline and think everyone was getting new prescription eyeglasses?

No, because we arent all fucking morons.

Re:New glasses (2)

Johann Lau (1040920) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406387)

You are one though, seeing how the poster asked "did anyone", not "did all of you".

I knew it wasn't going to be about eyeglasses, but yeah, that was my first association too, as if "optics" was a new hip word for it like "shades". Made me smile, as did dressing you down ^^

Re:New glasses (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406399)

Anyone else read the headline and think everyone was getting new prescription eyeglasses?

Or perhaps their houses' fronts were getting a new paint, countrywide. Or a new spy satellite for Mossad is going to be deployed. The possibilities are endless!

Re:New glasses (2)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406527)

No I figured it was yet another country getting what they paid for while we get fucked by the corps and end up on the short bus to the info superhighway.

Despite what Wolfram & Hart...err I mean Goldman Sachs says we have actually paid over 200 billion [pbs.org] in the form of massive tax breaks and other incentives to get nationwide fiber over a decade ago, what did we get? A low res Goatse from the ISPs who gave their CEOs bonuses with the money.

Scream socialism all you want but the ONLY WAY we are gonna get nationwide fiber is to nationalize the system, have the states lay it just like the roads, and then lease the lines to the companies who will have to compete for customers. because we are already falling behind the rest of the planet, hell Romania is kicking our ass when it comes to bandwidth, and we have already seen that rather than lay lines the corps will just put ever nastier caps while pocketing the profits. You can't have a free market when most people are stuck with a duopoly at best, most with only a monopoly, so we really have no choice but to nationalize the system.

After all if 200 billion in tax breaks and other incentives couldn't get the ISPs to lay down shit what makes anybody think they will just because their customers want netflix? They know they have you by the balls, so it'll be ever nastier caps and ever worse service while the rest of the world passes us by.

Re:New glasses (0)

cavreader (1903280) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407281)

Oh please! Stop comparing Romania and other relatively small states against the US. Pull up a map of the world and compare the size of Europe against the size of the US. And yes China and Russia are similar in size to the continental US but the Gobi desert in China and large areas of northern Russia are not exactly loaded with people needing an Internet connection. The government and businesses have already sunk a shitload of money into the existing system. An existing system that has, for better or worse, been built piece by piece over many years. Before you run an entirely new network keep in mind you will still need to pay for and continue to support the existing networks. And asking for the government to be responsible for an entirely new network is stupid in the extreme. Have you seen any indication the US government is competent enough to pull off a project like this? It would take hundreds of committee meetings and a billion dollars for them just to re-wire my neighborhood. Also keep in mind that the "government" doesn't have a Department of Network Installation and Support. They contract with 3rd party companies to do the work and you end up where we are today. So lobby the government or start your own company but stop acting like a fast internet connection is laid out in the bill of rights or is any shape or form a human right.

Re:New glasses (2)

Catbeller (118204) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407515)

Yes, we are bigger than Romania. We also have more money than they, per capita, and more people. Your point is puzzling; we aren't trying to do the same with the same amount of money. Resources scale with population and wealth. If what you said somehow made sense, we'd have no highways or electrical power outside of the cities.

You did't address the fact that the ISPs and telcos were given tens of billions in tax breaks in the last fifteen years to build the networks they now say they cannot afford to build. I was there, I remember. They stole the money; the OP is correct.

And the "government" built the roads, the phone lines, the water systems, the waste management systems, the airports, the regulatory systems that you use every day without noticing. Not only is government - that's us, it's us - capable, but does it far more cheaply than private entrepeneurs claim they can do it. Private investors want profits, and will game the customers for ever more each quarter. And do; this is abundantly obvious from the current example of the telcos sandbagging Netflix and raising rates. Other countries (as we used to do) set up the projects, build the infrastructure, and contract out the maintenance. And get far, far more payback for far less outlay. In the US, the outlay is eternal and goes into tens of billions in profits each year instead of network growth. The profits finance 1) raises for executives 2) political bribery 3) war chests for buying out competitors and patents so that the companies can protect their monopoly status. It's robbery by ideology. The free market doesn't work, because markets are not free - they are gamed by clever, motivated tribes of thieves who are far more agile and informed than you or your representatives can hope to be. Cut them out.

Re:New glasses (1)

joocemann (1273720) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407743)

I wish I could throw a turd at your comment.

Uruguay Fiber Optic Plan (5, Interesting)

fyi101 (2715891) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405485)

Here in Uruguay we are rolling out fiber optics for the entire country (3.5 million people approx.), with about 240,000 connections by now, and connections for all populated centers of 3500 homes and above by 2015. Price tag is about U$S 550 million. I think the plan is to replace the entire copper infrastructure in a few years. Each country is different, but in principle it's doable... (Of course we have the advantage of a state monopoly on wired telecommunications. Yes, I do mean advantage.) See http://www.elobservador.com.uy/noticia/236698/fibra-optica-un-plan-estrategico-de-us-550-millones/ [elobservador.com.uy] use Google Translate for the Spanish-impaired.

Re:Uruguay Fiber Optic Plan (2)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405525)

During the "stimulus" think a couple of years ago there were a lot of talking heads saying that stuff like this was wasteful.

I think it's exactly the opposite. There is nothing better you can do in rural and smaller areas. You can't have businesses anywhere without good Internet.

Here in the US we're going to see a 3rd world status in regards to networking by the end of our lifetimes (that is if it's not already that way yet).

Re:Uruguay Fiber Optic Plan (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405645)

Here in the US we're going to see a 3rd world status in regards to networking by the end of our lifetimes (that is if it's not already that way yet).

No, we are not. People and companies willing to pay for top-quality networking have access to it. The expectation that rural areas should get equal connectivity at the same cost as urban areas will always keep the average service below the average service in other countries that are willing to pay what it costs. But that is not 3rd world status.

Besides, do you really think that fiber is going to be cutting edge by the end of our lifetimes? Maybe if you are old. I personally am holding out hope for cost-effective neutrino-based wireless communication, where the boundary of urban and rural makes no difference.

Re:Uruguay Fiber Optic Plan (1)

fyi101 (2715891) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405829)

Here in the US we're going to see a 3rd world status in regards to networking by the end of our lifetimes (that is if it's not already that way yet).

No, we are not. People and companies willing to pay for top-quality networking have access to it. The expectation that rural areas should get equal connectivity at the same cost as urban areas will always keep the average service below the average service in other countries that are willing to pay what it costs. But that is not 3rd world status.

Besides, do you really think that fiber is going to be cutting edge by the end of our lifetimes? Maybe if you are old. I personally am holding out hope for cost-effective neutrino-based wireless communication, where the boundary of urban and rural makes no difference.

HAHAHAHAHAA*gasp*HAHAHAHA I love this kind of brilliant satire, so close to a Poe. Here, lemme help you:

"No, we are not. People and companies willing to pay for top-quality healthcare have access to it. The expectation that poor people should get equal access to healthcare at the same level of decent healthcare as rich folk will always keep the average service below the average service in other countries that are willing to pay what it costs. But that is not 3rd world status.

Besides, do you really think that transplants are going to be cutting edge by the end of our lifetimes? Maybe if you are old. I personally am holding out hope for cost-effective Star Trek Teleporter regeneration, where the boundary of fantasy and reality makes no difference."

HAHAHAHA Hey, if you think neutrino-based telecommunications is great, wait until they activate the Ansible! I just hope those damned Buggers don't find us. 10/10 Troll, Would laugh again

Re:Uruguay Fiber Optic Plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405897)

The debate is on who pays.
If it's publicly funded (Israel, Australia, Uruguay), everyone gets it.
If it's privately funded (US), only limited geographies where a business case can be put forward, the risk accounted for and an entrepreneur and investor found get it.

Ironically, (loosely quoting Tom Friedman here) it is the US who came up with the biggest public/private partnership of all time - the government covering infrastructure (roads, power), skill supply (education & immigration), capital availability for business (central bank, treasury), and security and private sector doing pretty much everything else.
It is the US who proved to the entire world that this model is a recipe for economic success.. but hasn't wisened up to carry it over into the 21st century.

What the US didn't do (its was realize internet connectivity belongs in there as well.

Re:Uruguay Fiber Optic Plan (1)

Marxdot (2699183) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406343)

It is the US who proved to the entire world that this model is a recipe for economic success

Until it irredeemably goes tits-up.

Re:Uruguay Fiber Optic Plan (2)

careysub (976506) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406595)

Here in the US we're going to see a 3rd world status in regards to networking by the end of our lifetimes (that is if it's not already that way yet).

No, we are not. People and companies willing to pay for top-quality networking have access to it.

You left of "willing and ABLE to pay". So as long as the rich can get top-quality networking the U.S. is golden? The U.S. is 19th in the world in broadband penetration, and 19th in the world in broadband speed. Can a nation compete economically when it is far behind in the core infrastructure of the 21st Century?

The expectation that rural areas should get equal connectivity at the same cost as urban areas will always keep the average service below the average service in other countries that are willing to pay what it costs.

How dare rural people expect electricity at affordable prices, decent roads like city-folk, mail service, and broadband? Who do the think they are? Real Americans? You would think they were citizens of what claims to be the greatest nation on Earth or something!

Oddly enough those rural people are in deep red state territory, vote heavily Republican, yet the people seem concerned whether they get access to 21st Century technology are those Marxist America-hating Progressives.

And actually U.S. broadband penetration is so poor (22%) most city-dwellers can't get it.

huh? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405561)

Google fiber? In Israel?
But... why?

The Chosen People (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407867)

They increase in God's favor.

tanks and nukes! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405657)

Israel needs tanks and nukes to fight palestinians with stones, not phiber optical infra-structures :)

Israel before America! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405669)

I hope you all enjoy knowing your tax dollars have rolled out all of Israel's Optical infrastructure.. (along with their entire military industrial complex)

*grins wide*

Re:Israel before America! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405755)

*grins wide*

Because you can't spout out that much cr*p without grinning wide...

Re:Israel before America! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407003)

Are facts now considered "crap"?

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/international/conflicts/u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-2012-congressional-report

*still grinning wide*

Will the American people pay for this... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405691)

... like they pay for just about everything else the Jews take as 'aid'?

Re:Will the American people pay for this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406099)

If this is the price of remaining and/or restoring in Divine favor, it's worth it. Perhaps this will please YHWH and stop sending deadly and destructive storms to send America " a message".

Right-of-way aquisition underway (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42405799)

500 meter wide utility corridors are being cut through Palestinian neighborhoods and agricultural land in preparation for fiber rollout.

they are slow like dial-up (3, Informative)

sudo (194998) | about a year and a half ago | (#42405949)

Lets hope they also upgrade their connectivity to the rest of the world.

Our company has tech centers in Israel and most of the time it feels like they are connected via dial up.
Even copying files they regularly stall.

A universally hated people needs to be secure (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406063)

It would come as no surprise whatsoever if a significant percentage of that bandwidth will be dedicated for security purposes. However, I see nothing wrong with that. Israel is not the USA. She is a homeland to a people whom the world hates because they dare present to humanity (brace yourselves) MORALITY. You know stuff that spoils fun, like no f**king outside marriage (adultery) or before marriage (fornication), not forcing input into an output-only device (homosexual activity). She is not a liberty experiment that is about to go bankrupt because people have found it easier to be LAZY than to be AMBITIOUS and vote to maintain an addiction to OPM (other people's money). If I had my say, I would plaster that jurisdiction with the most advanced sensing technology and cameras and back it with some cutting edge AI. Make it so uncomfortable for all potential enemies that they will self-deport.

So all you hypereducated cosmopolitan freaks with the Plaques On The Wall® get ready to gum up your BVD's with jizz over your favorite antisemitic epithets that at this very moment swirl amongst your neurons.

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. For the Jews, it is the price of survival.

See the finger come out of the screen and feel it poking YOUR nose and no one else's. If you are not pissed, I have NOT done my job, SCIENCE DAMN IT!

Re:A universally hated people needs to be secure (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406371)

She is a homeland to a people whom the world hates because they dare present to humanity (brace yourselves) MORALITY.

Bernie Madoff.

So much for that morality bullshit. Jews are neither no more nor no less moral than anyone else. The reason the world hates Jews is that they place their own insular culture above the interests of the countries that they live in. They aren't Germans or Poles or Russians or Americans. They are Jews. (But don't worry. Muslims are hard at work catching up.) Now that you have your own country, if you feel the need to place your culture above that of this country, move there. But I mean, really move. Drop the dual citizenship. Stop lobbying my government to support your nations interests above mine. And quit expecting me to subsidize your genocidal property acquisition.

Other than that, you are pretty nice people with an interesting culture. Just don't let your archeologists bulldoze the Dome of the Rock until after we've dug up the Vatican to study the Roman bathhouses underneath.

Re:A universally hated people needs to be secure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406897)

Stop lobbying my government

So foreign people are able to persuade a government that you yourself can directly influence by voting.
Sounds like someone has the upper hand and is still coming up short.

Re:A universally hated people needs to be secure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407595)

How did this bullshit get modded up? Christ, what a waste of electrons.

Re:A universally hated people needs to be secure (3, Informative)

Catbeller (118204) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407679)

"She is a homeland to a people whom the world hates because they dare present to humanity (brace yourselves) MORALITY"

The Palestinians? Never thought of it that way before. Thanks. Yeah, they are Semites, ain't they? We should stop being so anti-Semitic...

Waiting for the pre-4000 BC Ebla-ites to stake their claim. After all, they were there before anyone else. Plenty of descendants about, mostly Palestinian, I'd imagine. Prior possession is 100% of the law, ya know. Might be some Neaderthals or Cro-Magnon claimaints, too. There's been people in that once-fertile land for over twelve thousand years. Probably hundreds of thousands. Maybe a half million years, depending on how you define homo sapiens.

The land is a mined-out, farmed-out dessicated near-wasteland of the not-so-real. It's been peopled to death.

Your tax DOLLARS at work (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406265)

" The fiscal year 2013 budget request “includes $3.1 billion in Foreign Military Financing [FMF] for Israel and $15 million for refugee resettlement. Within the U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Missile Defense Agency’s FY2013 budget request includes $99.8 million in joint U.S.-Israeli co-development for missile defense.""

"To date, the United States has provided Israel $115 billion in bilateral assistance. It is currently the second largest recipient of aid worldwide, with Afghanistan now first."

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel: 2012 Congressional Report - Christopher Olver | April 26, 2012 ....I realize the US trade empire has a vested interest in a friendly outpost in the middle east, but when will Israel be considered strong enough to stop getting what amounts to charity?

Re:Your tax DOLLARS at work (1, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | about a year and a half ago | (#42408267)

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel: 2012 Congressional Report - Christopher Olver | April 26, 2012 ....I realize the US trade empire has a vested interest in a friendly outpost in the middle east, but when will Israel be considered strong enough to stop getting what amounts to charity?

Considering that the Arab Spring is getting hijacked by Islamists who have more in common with Iran ("lsrael should be wiped off the map") than the various dictators they replaced, I'm guessing Israel will find itself even more in the middle of hostile territory now. As for when the US will stop backing them up, they're best buddies. When the UN voted 188-3 to condemn the US trade embargo against Cuba, who were the three? The US, Israel and Palau. Even their usual lapdog the UK wouldn't side with US on that one, but Israel would.

squirrels and grenades (1, Interesting)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year and a half ago | (#42406425)

If fiber optic networks' #1 enemy is squirrels, imagine what rockets, grenades, and assorted bombs would do to it. Considering the sensitivity and the repair costs, this seems pretty stupid. They even shy away from putting optical fiber in earthquake areas let alone a recurring war zone.

Re:squirrels and grenades (1)

twistofsin (718250) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407419)

If fiber optic networks' #1 enemy is squirrels, imagine what rockets, grenades, and assorted bombs would do to it. Considering the sensitivity and the repair costs, this seems pretty stupid. They even shy away from putting optical fiber in earthquake areas let alone a recurring war zone.

Israel isn't a war zone. They have skirmishes and rockets launched at their borders but that isn't where the majority of the population lives. No one in the foreseeable future is going to significantly damage their comm network like you suggest.

Re:squirrels and grenades (1)

blackraven14250 (902843) | about a year and a half ago | (#42407927)

As if they don't launch rockets at Tel Aviv from Gaza...

Paid for by the US taxpayer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42406579)

Like everything else in Israel - military, technology, ...

Re:Paid for by the US taxpayer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407655)

What a bullshit. Military aid to Israel is ~2% of Israeli government budget, tiny percentage of GDP and its main purpose is to keep Israel on a tight leash.

Every nation should be like the Czechs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42407119)

Concerning about Israel, I am very proud of the Czechs.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/joseph-puder/czech-israeli-relations-an-enduring-friendship/

Israel Mauser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabiner_98k

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>