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Moscow Plane Crash Caught On Passerby's Dash Cam

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the tape-it-all-let-god-sort-it-out dept.

Transportation 253

acidradio writes "Yesterday a Tupolev 204 (Russian-made aircraft equivalent to an Airbus 321 or a shortened 757) overran the runway at Moscow Vnukovo airport and crashed into a nearby highway. A plane crash is always bad, but what makes this seem different is how well it was recorded. It seems like everyone in Russia has a dashcam, here is footage. A driver who just happened to be driving by on the nearby M3 highway (right about here on the map) is pelted by flying nose wheels and a row of coach-class seats! An accident like this has probably never been filmed so up close. We are getting better and better at recording accidents and disasters (whether by coincidence due to overuse of surveillance or maybe on purpose). What does that say about our level of documentation and recording of people's everyday lives? And what's the deal with dashcams in every Russian car?"

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One word: Lawsuits (4, Insightful)

Kid Zero (4866) | about 2 years ago | (#42427099)

Seriously, Dash Cams are the best defense against scam artists.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (5, Interesting)

sabri (584428) | about 2 years ago | (#42427203)

Seriously, Dash Cams are the best defense against scam artists.

Or to prove that you weren't the culprit. Have a look at these videos, taken from my own dashcam in San Jose, CA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BgkCUbeuck [youtube.com]
This is my wife driving. Watch the grey SUV on the right lane at 00:09.

Or the "best" one I ever caught: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9g7H0-NelI [youtube.com]
Skip to 00:50 for the action. You can clearly see the red car turning left on a red light. After the accident I provided first aid until CHP arrived (none of the injured had life threatening injuries). I lived close to the accident site so I drove home and burned the 1080p video on a DVD and gave it to the police.

Two months later I get a call from the insurer of the red car. Apparently they were unaware of the existence of the video: "Are you sure you saw that the light was red? Are you really really sure? Really??". So I answer "I got it on video on my dashcam". "Oh, ok, thanks -click".

Re:One word: Lawsuits (4)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#42427285)

Seriously, Dash Cams are the best defense against scam artists.

Or to prove that you weren't the culprit. Have a look at these videos, taken from my own dashcam in San Jose, CA:

The Youtube page says you're using a dod-tec GS600 dashcam -- are you happy with it? The Amazon page [amazon.com] for the camera has mostly 1 star ratings.

I'm looking for a good, relatively inexpensive dash-cam. Something small that I can "set-and-forget" - mount it on the windshield, run 12V power to it and be reasonably confident that it's going to record everything without me needing to check on it or replace SD cards.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (5, Informative)

Mononoke (88668) | about 2 years ago | (#42427399)

Not that you asked me, but I'm using the Roadhawk DC-1: http://www.roadhawk.co.uk/roadhawk-dc-1-car-black-box-camera/prod_18.html [roadhawk.co.uk]

The Roadhawk is the best implementation of a black box camera I have seen. It has enough on-board backup power to write the necessary EOF so that the actually crash video isn't corrupted (that's where the dod-tec apparently fails). It stores incident (accelerometer triggered) video files in a separate folder so that aren't eventually written over. It creates 60 sec. standard MP4 video files that can be played anywhere, yet those same files when read with Roadhawk's Windows software also show accelerometer graphs, speed of travel, and GPS maps. "Incident" files get written as 20 sec MP4 files with the triggering incident at the 10 second point in the file. Yes, they sell to US customers also.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (4, Interesting)

immaterial (1520413) | about 2 years ago | (#42427603)

That camera looks pretty damn nice overall. But given that a simple GoPro can record quite clear 1080p, the 640x480 resolution seems anemic. Image quality isn't the absolute most important feature (as long as it is clear enough that you can see who did what), but I'd still love to find a great 1080p-capable dash cam (more likely to capture plate numbers of hit-and-runs or potential witnesses, etc.). I'm also a little wary of GPS data; normal flow of traffic around here is 5-10 MPH over the limit (depending on the road or freeway) and I'd hate to have someone entirely at fault for hitting me try to claim contributory negligence on my part based on my own recorded evidence (I'm sure someone here will take issue with this, but the camera is to cover my ass, not anyone else's).

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

immaterial (1520413) | about 2 years ago | (#42427441)

I've also been looking for a good dash cam and would love some input from Slashdotters. Every single one I've looked at so far seems to get terrible reviews, and/or requires its own proprietary windows-only software to view videos in some funky format (!!?).

Earlier this year I was driving down the street and was suddenly hit by an old lady who was parked at the curb and suddenly pulled out to make a U-turn. Fortunately, as soon as our cars came to a crunching stop, I jumped out and snapped photos with my phone - which went straight to both her and my insurance companies within the hour. Initially her insurance company refused to admit fault, based on her story that she was just innocently driving down the road and tried to make a left turn, whereupon she ran into my car which was crazily driving the wrong way down the oncoming lane. I called them up and asked how the hell they could buy that story when my photos clearly showed me in the correct lane and her at the curb; apparently they never bothered to look at the photos I'd sent! They caved and admitted fault within the hour.

But if it hadn't been for those pictures... suffice it to say, I *really* want a dash cam. (Preferably, if they're cheap enough, two - one rearview.)

Re:One word: Lawsuits (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427477)

I have one and they are teh crap.

It often freezes up, recording nothing until you notice (blinkylight is not blinking) and press the reset button. The fact that it has a reset button should have made me suspicious. Sometimes it freezes up in such a way that I need to reformat the memory card in order to get it going again.

So, you can't rely on it to have recorded anything in case you do have an accident. Not good.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427765)

Lol. "Are you sure you are happy with it? Are you really really sure? Really??"

Re:One word: Lawsuits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427347)

That's what happens when people are blabbing away on their phones instead of paying attention to the road.

Aside from that, I don't know if your camera didn't pick up on it, but it didn't look like you were using your turn signals when you pulled out of your parking space and again when you turned out onto the road. The cabbie in front of you was late on his turn signal and he also made an illegal left turn.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

PNutts (199112) | about 2 years ago | (#42427521)

And if we're picking nits, she ended up going 52 MPH in a 45 MPH zone. :)

GP: Thanks for posting the vids. Very cool.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427567)

Nothing is picking nits when you're in control of a large piece of machinery hurtling down the road. Accidents are caused because people neglect those little nits, such as not properly signaling, not turning into the correct lane, not using rearview mirrors, not turning your head to look when making a turn/changing lanes, not driving the speed limit, talking on the phone, etc.

For example, driving 52 in a 45 zone may not seem like a big deal, but if she had been driving 45, that close call would have been more of a "what an asshole" moment instead of "oh shit, I'm going to get hit".

Re:One word: Lawsuits (2)

PNutts (199112) | about 2 years ago | (#42427733)

Nah, that was just a poor joke. :) Had she been going 52 and collided with the SUV, I assume the SUV's insurance company would successfully argue that she was double-digit percent at fault for the accident.

I used to work for a guy that always speeded (sped?). He could never figure out why people always cut him off changing lanes or by pulling out in front of him. He just couldn't understand that other drivers don't expect and aren't used to other vehicles going must faster than the speed limit.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#42427445)

This is my wife driving. Watch the grey SUV on the right lane at 00:09.

I think your wife singing in the car is funnier. You could have cut this video at 00:10.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (4, Funny)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 2 years ago | (#42427485)

This is my wife driving. Watch the grey SUV on the right lane at 00:09.

In my country we either sound our horn for one long continuous 30 second blast to publicly shame the offender, or simply allow the accident and claim vast sums of $currency for whiplash injury compensation. I think you guys could learn from this.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (4, Insightful)

CaptainLard (1902452) | about 2 years ago | (#42427711)

Or you could just easily avoid the accident as the GP did and get home for dinner on time and rant for 3 min about some idiot on the road. In the process you'll save yourself an hour at the scene talking to police, 6 hours in the emergency room, 2 hours on the phone with your insurance, a week waiting for your car to get fixed, a day talking with your lawyer, a day or two in court/mediation, 1-2 years waiting for settlement negotiations, and then another 6-12 months for payment assuming its not doled out periodically over many years (*my numbers are wild speculation but the hassle is not). Seriously, bad drivers piss me off royally but I'd rather not give up potentially hundreds of hours of my life for spite and a small chance of a financial return greater than all of the work hours I missed if I can just avoid the accident. Not to mention if I actually did end up with whiplash and have neck problems for the rest of my life.People in your country should learn from slashdot nerds and get a hobby. Bad drivers suck but sometimes its best to just let it go.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428099)

I don't know about you, but my spinal cord is more valuable to me than a cash payment. Wouldn't gamble it on something like this.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427597)

Skip to 00:50 for the action. You can clearly see the red car turning left on a red light.

I've watched that video a few times, and I can't see any red lights in front of that car. I can see your red light. I can see several green lights in front of the red car on the left edge of the video well before they start their turn. I can see adjacent cars driving through the intersection both before and after them because they have the same green light.

Was there some 'no turn except on advance green' signal at that intersection that we can't see from watching it? If not, the driver of the red car did NOT run a red light, though they were still at fault for the accident by turning in front of oncoming traffic.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

cathector (972646) | about 2 years ago | (#42427671)

i also do not see the light controlling the intersection for the red car.
it's off-screen on the left the entire time.
from the video alone it might be red or green.

but perhaps with special knowledge of the intersection's patterns, the light's color could be deduced.
for example, perhaps the green lights for the left-to-right moving traffic implies that the red car's turn lane had a red.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

tumnasgt (1350615) | about 2 years ago | (#42427735)

On the approach the intersection there are left turn lights clearly visible for the traffic traveling from left to right on-screen.
If you look along the pole holding the lights for the right to left traffic you can see there are two lights for left turning traffic just as there are for the opposite direction. While not the clearest, they are definitely red.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

jtownatpunk.net (245670) | about 2 years ago | (#42427759)

I can see it. Switch to 1080p and fullscreen. You can see the two red lights controlling the two left turn lanes in the red car's direction of travel. You can also see that the opposing traffic has "straight" green lights as the red car is entering the intersection tho those lights pass out of frame before the accident.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427631)

to be honest the reason why I don't have a dashcam is that I am worried it might incriminate me when I do mess up

as it is I ask the front seat passenger, assuming there is one, to watch just in case i might miss something - because i figure two heads are better than one

however i am now actually thinking that actually having one might be a good idea as it would let me review when I have messed up and see if I could read the road better next time.

Btw just to say i haven't had a vehicle involved incident in 10 years - but there have been so very close calls and I don't know if its me or the other parties.

besides how else can I improve, except analysing my mistakes

any advice on where to get good review/advice (beyond a search by DuckDuckGo) would be appreciated

and thanks for the videos

Re:One word: Lawsuits (2)

Kethinov (636034) | about 2 years ago | (#42427737)

Wow your videos hit a bit too close to home for me! I drive down that road in your first video all the time. I've also been considering getting a dashcam for the same reason you have one. My only concern is finding one that doesn't require a lot of fuss. I'm looking for something that auto-activates when the car is on and shuts itself off when the car is off. Ideally it'd roll over the video too, only keeping a memory of the last X hours. That way I only have to do anything with the dashcam when I actually want to permanently archive some video when something notable happens.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427907)

I notice at 0:52 in the first video you're going 52 in 45. I have notified the authorities.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

Maow (620678) | about 2 years ago | (#42427925)

Or the "best" one I ever caught: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9g7H0-NelI [youtube.com]

Skip to 00:50 for the action. You can clearly see the red car turning left on a red light. After the accident I provided first aid until CHP arrived (none of the injured had life threatening injuries). I lived close to the accident site so I drove home and burned the 1080p video on a DVD and gave it to the police.

Two months later I get a call from the insurer of the red car. Apparently they were unaware of the existence of the video: "Are you sure you saw that the light was red? Are you really really sure? Really??". So I answer "I got it on video on my dashcam". "Oh, ok, thanks -click".

Is there a separate left turn control for the red car? Because I watched the video and I saw green lights for traffic in both directions.

Regardless, the red car obviously turned left whilst it was unsafe to do so, so they are still responsible. It's just that I can't determine any red light.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427215)

And the scam artists are a huge problem there, which is why everyone has dash cams there.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427223)

No, they're the best defense against police. When a policeman pulls you over and tries to extract a bribe, the dash cam is how you prove that you didn't follow too close, change lanes too suddenly, or whatever.

dom

Re:One word: Lawsuits (1)

Garridan (597129) | about 2 years ago | (#42427291)

No, they're the best defense against scam artists.

FTFY.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (2)

ls671 (1122017) | about 2 years ago | (#42427833)

You will see what I will do of your dash cam and your silly evidence next time I stop you AC.

Your friendly neighborhood sheriff.

Re:One word: Lawsuits (4, Interesting)

JWSmythe (446288) | about 2 years ago | (#42427781)

To start, I'm an American, living in the United States.

I started recording all my driving a few months ago. I got a red light ticket, and I specifically remember the light being green until it was out of view, obscured by the roof of my car.

I've also been in car accidents, where people lie about what happened. There have also been incidents where the police make wild claims about my driving which just weren't true. "Careless driving" where you were swerving in the lane is hard to argue in court, but easier with video proof.

My logic is, rather than let my word stand up in court, let the video testify for me.

Since I'm recording with my phone, it eliminates any question of if I'm texting or talking on the phone while I'm driving. I can't. The phone is busy recording. If I had a second phone, you'd hear me talking. The only talking you hear is the radio, or if I dictate license plates.

I'm using the Android app "Torque Recorder". It's not perfect. Well, it's much less than perfect. It does record my OBDII information, but when it encodes to combine the data, the data and video skew. It's about 5 seconds in 15 minutes of driving. It also sucks down the battery in my phone horribly. In a 2.1A charger in the car, it drops about 2% in 30 minutes. Without charging, it will have sucked about 90% of the battery in 30 minutes.

The other problem is the video quality. It's fine for seeing which car did what, and ambient noises. You can't read license plates. That's why I dictate the occasional license plate. If someone is driving badly, and I think there might be a problem, I already have the plate dictated which can be heard on playback. It also gets confused about focus. There's no setting for manual focus, and sometimes it'll focus back to the windshield rather than the objects in front of the car. Like, if it's raining, the focus changes from windshield to cars when the wipers sweep by.

Sometimes the Torque Recorder encoding program can't actually encode the stored video. The video is just MP4, so it's fine. It just doesn't have the vehicle data included. If it had to go to court, I can provide the data file, since it's just a CSV.

So far, I've been lucky. There have been some lunatics. I've had to make extreme maneuvers to avoid them, but so far there has been no accident. Lately, I've caught the end result of two accidents resulting in fatalities (after the police arrived, not the accident itself), and lots of smoke from people locking up their tires skidding to a stop just short of accidents.

I don't worry about it while I'm driving. I just have to remember to start it when I start driving, and stop it when I get to my destination.

Since it's recording some select OBDII information, I have my throttle position and actual ground speed recorded, rather than trusting the

I intend to work on my own app, and hopefully fix the video quality, battery life, and encoding problems.

Hopefully I'll never be "lucky" enough to catch a plane crash.

Frosty piss? (5, Interesting)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about 2 years ago | (#42427111)

Easy answer to this - I was working in Moscow all this year. If you have an accident, you HAVE to wat for the police to come to make an official report, (otherwise your car insurance will not pay out).

When they get there, the person with the biggest bribe gets the favourable report...

So, better to have a dashcam...

Re:Frosty piss? (2)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about 2 years ago | (#42427123)

Yeah, yeah..."wait"', sorry...fucking virtual keyboards...

Amit4u.com (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427357)

NIce to read.......... Also Visit http://www.amit4u.com/

Re:Amit4u.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427499)

As if bots weren't bad enough, now we have this! Get off slashdot!

Re:Amit4u.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427651)

You'd think if they were smart they would parse the URLS....

Dashcams (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427113)

Dashcams provide proof of what happened in a culture full of corrupt law enforcement officers.

Re:Dashcams (5, Interesting)

CdBee (742846) | about 2 years ago | (#42427141)

And - it has regrettably to be said - in a culture full of batshit-insane drivers. Even President Medyedev has gone on the record as stating that the Russian Federation has a lot of very poor and excessively reckless drivers.

Someone once told me that in Russian the words for yield/give way and surrender are identical and Russians surrender to nobody. Don't know if that's true. Not sure I want it to be....

Re:Dashcams (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427311)

It's not true in Russian, two completely unrelated words ( and ). In English it's true though, as yield can mean surrender.
The phrase "I yield to no one" is also in English (but has Latin roots).

Re:Dashcams (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427329)

Slashdot ate the text in Russian, it was "ustupat'" and "sdavat'sya" in Cyrillic letters.

Re:Dashcams (1)

CdBee (742846) | about 2 years ago | (#42427337)

Thanks

Re:Dashcams (2)

nmb3000 (741169) | about 2 years ago | (#42427697)

And - it has regrettably to be said - in a culture full of batshit-insane drivers.

No joke. There are some pretty crazy Russian dashcam/streetcam compilations on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFw1dpGw9uQ [youtube.com] (0:55).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvX9SVAlk0 [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTb4CGhp_eo [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XB-B3Bqsm4 [youtube.com] (2:52, 8:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiBLfLcUmZs [youtube.com] (11:02)

It seems to be a combination of driving too fast for conditions (and/or bald tires) and assuming everyone else will jump the hell out of your way.

Re:Dashcams (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428111)

It sounds like a joke with a kernel of truth.

Re:Dashcams (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428137)

In Chicago, the rules of the road are "Yield applies to you and right of way applies to me."

Re:Dashcams (3, Insightful)

ultranova (717540) | about 2 years ago | (#42427383)

Dashcams provide proof of what happened in a culture full of corrupt law enforcement officers.

And if proof matters, you don't yet know the real meaning of corruption.

Dash car cams (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427117)

The dash car cams is because of a law that allows people to sue the driver if they get hurt. Lots of people pretend and pretty much jump in front of slow moving cars because its one of the easiest way to make money

In Soviet Russia... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427121)

In Soviet Russia, plane boards YOU!

Re:In Soviet Russia... (1)

Psicopatico (1005433) | about 2 years ago | (#42427403)

In Soviet Russia, population supervise the government.

In Soviet Russia... (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427145)

the plane boards you!

Says Who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427149)

Who says there are dashcams in every Russian car?

Re:Says Who? (1)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#42427293)

Who says there are dashcams in every Russian car?

The huge number of Russian crash videos that keep popping up on Youtube and other places. They may not be in *every* car, but there sure seem to be a lot of them.

russian dashcam videos (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427155)

I watch a lot of car accidents on youtube for fun/ education, and I also wondered why they were always russian. One of the posters said it's because of car insurance reasons (or the lack thereof), and dashcam vids helps with claims. If you watch enough of these videos like I have on youtube, it's a free-for-all driving over there. Signs and traffic lights are pretty much optional.

But this is just one random explanation I've found and it seems plausible. Feel free to prove me wrong, as I'd like to know the "real" reasons too.

Re:russian dashcam videos (2)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 2 years ago | (#42427199)

If you watch enough of these videos like I have on youtube, it's a free-for-all driving over there. Signs and traffic lights are pretty much optional.

I've seen quite a bunch of those videos myself and yeah, it's amazing how EXCEEDINGLY bad drivers there are, it's just god damn horrible. And it's only slightly better when they visit Finland: Lappeenranta here in Finland is a city that's pretty well filled with russians and every time I have to drive there I dread at the sight of russian drivers. Been in many a situation where the russian driver just decides to swerve right in front of me, or pushes me out of the lane, drives straight through red lights and so on and so forth.

I can't say much about them as people as I don't know any personally, but I find myself wishing they were never given cars or driver's licenses.

Re:russian dashcam videos (1)

Caedite Eos (2769585) | about 2 years ago | (#42427255)

> it's amazing how EXCEEDINGLY bad drivers there are If you'd have ever driven there you'd know that driving is organized chaos. Barely organized, at that. So, any driver that has managed to stay alive for a few years ... automatically good driver. Still assholes, but not bad drivers. IMHO and all that.

Re:russian dashcam videos (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427379)

It's about traffic culture more than lack of skills. I've driven in Puerto Rico and lerned many a lesson on creative driving. I've been to Bangalore, India, and once you get over the horror of the traffic, you learn to appreciate the sheer choreography of the whole thing.

Yes, there are a lot of accidents but much fewer than you'd expect given the seeming chaos. In reality, it's not chaos but a whole different set of subtle cues you give by honking, flashing and initiative.

Of course, when driving cultures clash (as with Russians in Finland or vice versa), you are in greatest danger because those cues are not noticed or are misinterpreted.

Re:russian dashcam videos (1)

WGFCrafty (1062506) | about 2 years ago | (#42427675)

This is a good point. I noticed while driving in the Bahamas, they use the horns to say 'what's up' to other drivers, and signal turns and what not. The lanes are narrow, and the driving was scary to me (from Texas), but it worked for them. Honking like they did in Texas would be taken as an offense to many people, maybe they're just more cheerful people, it sure seemed like that. I didn't see one unhappy Bahamian.

Dash cams are in Russia because.. Russia's Russia. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427163)

The driving in Russia is absolutely horrible. That's precisely the reason why so many people over there have dash cams.

As a matter of fact, as with anything else, there are a number of compilations of Russian dashcam videos that show some pretty outrageous things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlxHPJAONpE
No wrecks in any other country have anything on Russia. Seriously.

have you never seen this? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427171)

Russian pedestrians diving under cars to try and get compensated for an accident.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c12_1349902324

Re:have you never seen this? (3, Insightful)

mvar (1386987) | about 2 years ago | (#42427573)

shit that's insane

Re:Dashcams (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427235)

I was in Taipei a few weeks ago an saw that most taxi's had dash cams - very small, very common. It makes sense to me for have these for a multitude of reasons as stated above. I don't see these being sold in the US - yet another case being behind the rest of the world - but of course we will never admit that...

Re:Dashcams (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427361)

I don't see these being sold in the US - yet another case being behind the rest of the world - but of course we will never admit that...

Did you even bother checking Amazon before you posted that?

Re:Dashcams (4, Interesting)

prisma (1038806) | about 2 years ago | (#42427635)

I was in Taipei a few weeks ago an saw that most taxi's had dash cams - very small, very common. It makes sense to me for have these for a multitude of reasons as stated above. I don't see these being sold in the US - yet another case being behind the rest of the world - but of course we will never admit that...

I'd argue it's the opposite: It is because the relevant parts of American culture is/was ahead of many nations such that our police force and citizens are/were, on average, more honest than those in places where dash cams are more common and necessary.

You could try to counter this by saying that there's been a regression in society these days but that would only deflect the argument to a completely separate but debatable subject of its own.

The other replies ahead of mine have also already pointed out that dashcams are (and have been) available for sale in the US for quite some time. They just aren't very commonly used by the general public. Many law enforcement agencies already have them installed as standard equipment on their cruisers.

Combined Navigation gadgets come with dashcams (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427243)

Combined GPS and Navigation software gadgets come with dashcams included.
Like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evDImqICY1w

Exaggeration (1, Troll)

Mike Mentalist (544984) | about 2 years ago | (#42427265)

Um, it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the crash was caught on camera.

Re:Exaggeration (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 2 years ago | (#42427401)

Yup, looked like aftermath only. A wheel, some seats, and assorted debris crossing a road that the plane itself did not. The real question though is, did they fine the pilot for littering?

Re:Exaggeration (3)

PNutts (199112) | about 2 years ago | (#42427615)

The real question though is, did they fine the pilot for littering?

Considering the pilot was killed, no. A fifth person died so keep the jokes coming.

Re:Exaggeration (1, Troll)

AK Marc (707885) | about 2 years ago | (#42427729)

What, too soon?

Re:Exaggeration (3, Informative)

PNutts (199112) | about 2 years ago | (#42427577)

If you watch it in slow motion, you see an intact jet fuselage disappear (probably into a ditch) and then see the results of it slamming into the other side with debris flying up and over. That was the real crash, not the plane 4 wheeling off-road after overrunning the runway. I assume there were some kind of arresting barriers but if those wheels were from the nose gear the barriers sure didn't do much. The moments before this video were probably boring with the plane simply continuing on past the runway. The final impact was the money shot. Another angle would have been Hollywood perfect but in real life you take what you can get.

Every Russian has a dash cam because.... (5, Interesting)

Above (100351) | about 2 years ago | (#42427267)

Every Russian has a dash cam because the insurance company and courts there have a history of not paying out a dime unless you have proof. Where Americans seem to think in a "reasonable doubt" methodology from our courts, in Russia it's apparently "any doubt at all" and you lose. So if someone hits you while you're parked and they show up and say you ran into them you'd better have video or witnesses or something or no money for you!

Other countries seem to have systems that skew that way, and thus more dash cams (China, Taiwan, Korea), but not the quantity of videos. I think that's due to the bad Russian driving, there's simply more wild videos coming out of Russia than anywhere else!

Over at Jalopnik [jalopnik.com] there is an entire section devoted to Russian dash cams [jalopnik.com] . If you waste the next few hours watching them all it's not my fault!

Re:Every Russian has a dash cam because.... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427397)

Every Russian has a dash cam because the insurance company and courts there have a history of not paying out a dime unless you have proof. Where Americans seem to think in a "reasonable doubt" methodology from our courts, in Russia it's apparently "any doubt at all" and you lose. So if someone hits you while you're parked and they show up and say you ran into them you'd better have video or witnesses or something or no money for you!

Other countries seem to have systems that skew that way, and thus more dash cams (China, Taiwan, Korea), but not the quantity of videos.

That sounds pretty crazy.

Car accidents never go to court in Australia, one of the two drivers always freely admits to being at-fault and their insurance company always pays out (or else the two insurance companies will sue each other).

If both drivers claim to be innocent, then it will go to court — and the punishment for lying to a police officer about events during the crash will be so harsh, nobody within a few degrees of separation will ever dare try it again. Jail time for sure.

If possible, and if there are no injuries, we'll even try to avoid letting insurance companies or police get involved at all. Better to shake hands, give the other person enough cash to repair the car, and walk away from it. Insurance companies are slow, it takes for ever to get the repairs authorised. And the cops are likely to hand one of you a stiff penalty (and maybe even defend yourself in court to avoid loosing your license) for "failing to maintain proper control of a vehicle" or some such.

If the at-fault driver doesn't have insurance (medical insurance is mandatory but vehicle damage insurance is not), then they'll definitely want to keep it under the radar or else the other driver's insurance company will fleece them.

Re:Every Russian has a dash cam because.... (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 2 years ago | (#42427433)

I wanted to have a system that notices when my parked car is bumped and takes photos/videos of everything around it. Then I realized that if someone dented it opening their door (car park spaces keep getting smaller, cars keep getting bigger) it wouldn't capture their number plate and would thus be useless.

A simpler option would be to just record any movement events with an accelerometer. By noting the exact time of the bump you could then request CCTV footage of the incident from the car park operator (law says they must hand it over for a £10 admin fee).

Re:Every Russian has a dash cam because.... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427531)

Or just realise that you regularly leave your car unattended outside, at the mercy of nature and people in the area, and don't worry about small dents and scratches. Leave the dents there and just polish off the scratches to prevent rust. Cars need to look shiny and pristine only if you're foolish enough to believe everything the marketing department tells you.

Re:Every Russian has a dash cam because.... (1)

PNutts (199112) | about 2 years ago | (#42427653)

Or just realise that you regularly leave your car unattended outside, at the mercy of nature and people in the area, and don't worry about small dents and scratches. Leave the dents there and just polish off the scratches to prevent rust. Cars need to look shiny and pristine only if you're foolish enough to believe everything the marketing department tells you.

My car got bumped a few days ago and now the backup object sensor is giving "false positives". Yeah, first world problems, but now I have to decide if the beep is bogus or my kid is behind the car. I'll have to fix it $$$ or turn it off and validate about what's behind me like I did for 31 years and humans have done for about 250 years but that's one of the safety features that made me buy this particular car after spawning. I don't give a hoot about the missing paint on the bumper or the four year old dent on the side, it's not an iPhone.

Why clean is good (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 2 years ago | (#42427719)

Cars need to look shiny and pristine only if you're foolish enough to believe everything the marketing department tells you.

Never heard of the broken window theory, have you?

It works on the owner too. It's nothing to do with marketing, I keep my car washed regularly because if you care enough to keep the car clean, you are also thinking about other issues - like should I get the oil changed yet, should I ignore that noise etc.

It also helps you notice things like scratches earlier so you can take care of them, otherwise you might lose the car earlier than you should to rust. That's simply wasteful.

Also people are more likely when parking next to a clean car to avoid dinging it, no mater how old the car is otherwise. You keeping your car clean makes it less likely to suffer minor injuries.

Re:Why clean is good (1)

whoever57 (658626) | about 2 years ago | (#42427969)

It also helps you notice things like scratches earlier so you can take care of them, otherwise you might lose the car earlier than you should to rust. That's simply wasteful.

Depends on where you live. In many parts of the world cars don't rust quickly enough to matter even if the paint gets scraped.

Re:Every Russian has a dash cam because.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427821)

Or just realise that you regularly leave your car unattended outside, at the mercy of nature and people in the area, and don't worry about small dents and scratches. Leave the dents there and just polish off the scratches to prevent rust. Cars need to look shiny and pristine only if you're foolish enough to believe everything the marketing department tells you.

Don't be so American, in some countries, like Japan, it's actually illegal to drive a car that has a dent in it.

Re:Every Russian has a dash cam because.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427883)

Not necessarily useless. A system could be setup to continue recording for a few minutes after the event that triggered it. Provided the set of cameras recording has a good forward or backward viewing angle, there would still be a high possibility of to getting a plate number from the offender's car.

I also very much want one of these systems, and am disappointed that the current marketplace has failed to provide it. Not necessarily for stupid parking lot dings (which can usually be avoided if you don't mind walking a bit more), but to catch footage of that asshole teenager that gets their jollies from vandalizing people's cars at night. I'd like the police to have their picture, and once they end up in court, see the look on their face when over $3000 in criminal damage (that's what it costs for a proper re-paint here) is considered a felony in my state.

Am I vindictive much? Maybe. But I'm tired of the bullshit when I don't have the money to fix stuff that shouldn't happen in the first place. Why shouldn't I be allowed to have (somewhat) nice things just because somebody else wants to be an ass-clown?

Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (0, Troll)

hottoh (540941) | about 2 years ago | (#42427301)

Doing nothing was a better option. Locking the brakes and turning the wheel was not so good.

Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (3, Interesting)

AK Marc (707885) | about 2 years ago | (#42427395)

Added what to the tragedy? The cam-driver didn't do any additional damage to anything, and the driver in front didn't lock up their brakes or turn the wheel, as far as I could tell. And based on US data, locked wheels stop much faster than the average American driver (why cars like Mercedes are adding brake assist, where a quick application of the brake triggers a stronger stopping force than requested because American drivers don't stop nearly as fast as possible in their cars, rarely beyond what you get sliding along on melted rubber.

Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427641)

Like to steer much? Because you can't when the wheels aren't turning.

Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 2 years ago | (#42427727)

You didn't answer how locking up the wheels in this case added to the tragedy. Lying hyperbole much?

Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (1)

whoever57 (658626) | about 2 years ago | (#42427985)

why cars like Mercedes are adding brake assist, where a quick application of the brake triggers a stronger stopping force than requested because American drivers don't stop nearly as fast as possible in their cars, rarely beyond what you get sliding along on melted rubber.

Not just expensive cars. It is (or at least, was) an option on the Nissan Versa (at one time the cheapest car in the USA).

Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (4, Interesting)

Lost Race (681080) | about 2 years ago | (#42427455)

The driver lost control because the car was hit by flying debris not visible on the dash-cam. After that he actually did a pretty good job of not making it worse.

Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (-1)

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Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (-1)

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Re:Over reactive driver - added to the tragedy (-1, Flamebait)

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Dashcams (4, Interesting)

zyzko (6739) | about 2 years ago | (#42427363)

Apparently, dashcams are as popular as GPS devices in Russia, and you can get a basic model for an equivalent of about 40 euros, and an advanced model is as pricey as an advanced GPS is (with nice features). And the reason to get one can be seen in Youtube, if you are pretty much run into by a car with government plates you better have some hard evidence that you were not the culprit. As the traffic is often worse than in southern Europe (where there is a lot of honking and hand-waving, even "pushing it through" but people are used to minor dents in cars in cities and they don't often care) compared to the fact that there is a lot of high-priced cars in Russia and insurance money is big factor, plus as an added bonus police can be corrupt and the one with biggest handout on the scene gets the money from the insurance because of the police report.

I live near a pretty busy skiing resort in Finland where there are a lot of Russian tourists this time of year. Most of them do drive responsibly. And I urge you to do so here abroad (we have a pretty decent police who can write accurate reports if there is an accident and are not for sale) as well as home. There is no rush here, just relax on the Sunday-traffic off the resort. Don't be a jerk in traffic, really.

Re:Dashcams (1)

girlinatrainingbra (2738457) | about 2 years ago | (#42428073)

That explains the prevalence of dashcams in Russia. But even in the year 2000, there were enough people driving with cellphones that could take pictures and with videocameras on them as they drove that some interesting videos and images were captured even then.
-- the Concorde crash [wikipedia.org] after takeoff at Charles De Gaulle airport; has footage of the flames coming out of the engines
-- whenever there's a light-airplane, experimental airplane crash that occurs soon after takeoff (i.e. right near the airport runway), there's often another pilot or family member who captures videocamera or cellphone video footage of the incident (an incident in Kearney Mesa about 3 months ago)

And what's with dashcams in every Russian car? (2)

AK Marc (707885) | about 2 years ago | (#42427369)

Obviously to record that the crash of the landing gear into your car wasn't your fault.

Front car ESP? (1)

cachimaster (127194) | about 2 years ago | (#42427381)

I wonder, did the driver of the car hit by the wheel had remarkable driving skills or the car was stabilized by the ESP?

I think we can all agree (3, Funny)

nimbius (983462) | about 2 years ago | (#42427385)

this could have been a lot worse. Air Canada would have charged them a service fee for shuttling them to the nearest ground transportation.

Re:I think we can all agree (1)

ciurana (2603) | about 2 years ago | (#42427725)

Are you thinking Ryan Air, perhaps?

Russian dashcams explained (1)

Beamboom (2692671) | about 2 years ago | (#42427411)

... by a Russian (written in English), here: http://www.animalnewyork.com/2012/russian-dashcam/ [animalnewyork.com] Highly recommended to read - it's a fascinating article, with several other video examples too.

in soviet russia plane crashes you! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427439)

in soviet russia plane crashes you!

Plane crashes on video (1)

OzPeter (195038) | about 2 years ago | (#42427691)

It's not like people haven't crashed planes to see what happens [discovery.com] and filmed it from all sorts of angles.

Video not available (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427967)

It says "this video is not available in your location". That's offending.

amazing that there are not more cams at airports (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 2 years ago | (#42427739)

Seriously, cams are pretty cheap. I would think that somebody with a decent inexpensive system would be able to put up loads of cams all over runways, etc. This is not for use in insurances, but more for NTSB, and the equivalence at other nations. Basically, it is useful to see why/how an airplane loses control. And keep in mind that the vast majority of accidents occur at landing/take-off.

A row of coach-class seats? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 2 years ago | (#42427779)

I might never complain about poor seating again, at least the last time I flew I arrived inside the airplane.

Birds do it, Russians do it, you would too.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42427953)

The deal in Russia is that it is very hard to make a claim for insurance money for your vehicle if it is involved in an accident, Insurance companies in Russia easily get out of paying by blaming the driver who is making a claim. To get out of this, Russians have mounted cams in their cars. This way they can go to court and get reimbursement for insurance claims very easily. If you do not have video you will not get any money from the company who has issued a policy on your vehicle. Now with all the vehicles having cams you can see the results of accidents, thefts etc.

video of the Concorde Flight 4590 crash (1)

girlinatrainingbra (2738457) | about 2 years ago | (#42428101)

Even almost thirteen years ago in the year 2000, there were enough people with cellphones on them at all times who could take pictures and with videocameras on them as they drove people to/from the airport that some interesting videos and images were captured even then.
.
-- the Concorde crash [wikipedia.org] after takeoff at Charles De Gaulle airport; has footage of the flames coming out of the engines
-- whenever there's a light-airplane or experimental airplane crash that occurs soon after takeoff (i.e. right near the airport runway), there's often another pilot or family member who captures videocamera or cellphone video footage of the incident (an incident in Kearney Mesa about 3 months ago)
-- whenever a crash occurs at flight shows or flight contests, there are often multiple videos available taken by onlookers and viewers of the events (see Oshkosh, almost every other year there will be a crash)
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