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New Releases From FreeBSD and NetBSD

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the under-the-new-year's-wire dept.

Operating Systems 149

tearmeapart writes "The teams at FreeBSD have reached another great achievement with FreeBSD 9.1, with improvements to the already fantastic zfs features, more VM improvements (helping bringing FreeBSD to the next generation of VMs), and improvements in speed to many parts of the network system. Support FreeBSD via the FreeBSD mall or download/upgrade FreeBSD from a mirror. Unfortunately, the torrent server is still down due to the previous security incident." And new submitter northar writes "The other day the NetBSD project released their first update to the 6.x series, 6.0.1. They also (rather discreetly) announced a fund drive targeting 60.000 USD before the end of 2012 in the release notes. They better get going if their donation page is anything like recently updated."

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60 dollars? (5, Funny)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#42428185)

Now that is cost efficiency!

Re:60 dollars? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428211)

What is it with programmers and measuring money to more than two decimal places?

Re:60 dollars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428227)

It is because we have all these coupons that say they have a cash value of 1/100 of a cent. So we have to store up a bunch of them and track the current value of our pile of coupons - which requires 4 decimal places.

Re:60 dollars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428253)

It stems from the loss of precision related to the way that computers calculate floating-point numbers.

Jewish engineers realized that they were coming up short a few pennies everytime their machines would calculate operations with money, so they created a new datatype -- a double-precision number, which was so precise that their operations would ensure that faulty computing would never cheat them out of their precious pennies again. Later, the same engineers realized that they could avoid losing even fractions of pennies by using 64-bit values instead of 32-bit values. They used their media clout to convince everybody to move to x64 for that same reason.

Re:60 dollars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428399)

Copper wire was invented by two Checkpoint* developers fighting over a penny.

*Firewall company based in Israel.

Re:60 dollars? (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | about 2 years ago | (#42428465)

Copper wire was invented by two Checkpoint* developers fighting over a penny.

The CEO of a company at which I worked, who had a Dutch last name (I don't know how many generations back his Dutch ancestors arrived in the US) told the same joke, but it was "two Dutchmen..." Googling also finds "Scotsmen" and "lawyers" used.

Re:60 dollars? (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | about 2 years ago | (#42429897)

What is it with programmers and measuring money to more than two decimal places?

FWIW there used to be a plastic coin called a mill worth 0.1 cent. You still see millage in taxes.

Re:60 dollars? (1)

reboot246 (623534) | about 2 years ago | (#42428235)

I think I may be able to donate the whole amount!

Re:60 dollars? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428243)

$60 dollars is a lot of money in netbsd land!

Re:60 dollars? (1)

davester666 (731373) | about 2 years ago | (#42428305)

It's a hardware drive. They want to buy an Arduino [high-end model] to port FreeBSD to it.

Re:60 dollars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428675)

Why would NetBSD be running a donation drive to buy hardware to port FreeBSD?

No need to hurry (2)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 2 years ago | (#42428307)

"They better get going if their donation page is anything like recently updated."

Well, since the date on the image is Dec 30, 2009, I don't think you need to be in any sort of hurry.

Re:60 dollars? (3, Informative)

andrewa (18630) | about 2 years ago | (#42428309)

Submitter could be from any of these countries.... Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada (French-speaking), Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both forms are in use elsewhere), Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Georgia, Greece, Greenland, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kirgistan, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both marks officially), Macau (in Portuguese text), Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa (officially[15]), Spain, Sweden, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark [wikipedia.org]

Re:60 dollars? (1)

reboot246 (623534) | about 2 years ago | (#42428411)

We understand that, but the amount was given in USD - United States Dollars.

Re:60 dollars? (1)

andrewa (18630) | about 2 years ago | (#42428845)

Yes, USD was specified - doesn't mean it has to actually follow the format. I could say "60,000 Euro" and it might seem unusually formatted to a German. Basically, just get over it - it was either a typo, or the submitter was from a country that has different formats - we're all intelligent (might be a bit of an optimistic assumption I suppose) people here....

Re:60 dollars? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429775)

your talking US dollars on a US site, how fucking hard do you have to stretch to dignify your dumbass comment?

Re:60 dollars? (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#42430541)

newsflash: the site may be hosted in the US, but the internet is international. it is visible globally and used by a global audience.

Re:60 dollars? (1)

andrewa (18630) | about 2 years ago | (#42431281)

My assumption was clearly too optimistic....

Re:60 dollars? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 2 years ago | (#42431435)

This list is a lot smaller if you limit it to countries where English is the native language. I would expect the same sorts of complaints if I translated something into French, but left the number separators in my own locale. Given that almost all of the English-speaking world uses the same thousands and decimal separators, it seems fairly simple to assume that, if you are writing for an English-speaking audience, you should use those.

Re:60 dollars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430319)

The summary obviously meant to say "sixty thousand", but it used a non-English convention amidst English text (comma vs period for decimal mark vs thousands separator). The donation page [netbsd.org] itself says "60,000", with a comma.

The current national conventions [wikipedia.org] are as follows:

Countries where a dot "." is used to mark the radix point [(called "decimal point" when dealing with base-10)] include: Australia, Botswana, British West Indies, Brunei, Canada (English-speaking), Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Kenya, Korea (both North and South), Lebanon, Luxembourg (uses both marks officially), Macau (in Chinese and English text), Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Mongolia, Nepal, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Panama, People's Republic of China, Philippines, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Taiwan, Tanzania, Thailand, Uganda, United Kingdom, United States (including insular areas), Zimbabwe.

Countries where a comma "," is used to mark the radix point include: Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada (French-speaking), Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both forms are in use elsewhere), Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Georgia, Greece, Greenland, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kirgistan, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both marks officially), Macau (in Portuguese text), Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa (officially), Spain, Sweden, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Although I was born in Russia, I think the English / USA'ian / majority-Asian way (period for decimal point) is better than the continental European way, and the whole world should get on the same page. Think of it as a victory prize for USA winning the Cold War... or a consolation prize for Englishmen (and someday USA'ians too) abandoning their "imperial system" for the much-superior metric system [freetalklive.com] . ;-)

The world already uses periods as logical separators in dotted decimal notation [wikipedia.org] of IP addresses, DNS (though sadly little-endian), member separators, etc.

As for the decorative thousands separation - any character except a period would do, with comma being the tradition, but I think the underscore is best. Commas only cause grammatical confusion. Sixty thousand is 60_000. Seems perfectly natural to someone with experience in a programming language like perl, ruby, or nimrod [nimrod-code.org] .

--libman

Re:60 dollars? (1)

Razgorov Prikazka (1699498) | about 2 years ago | (#42431199)

>> Countries where a dot "." is used to mark the radix point (called "decimal point" when dealing with base-10) include: [...] India [...]
Just to make sure I got it right, it is 0.6 Lakh right? Not 0,6 Lakh?

More on-topic, great work from the *BSD guy's! And on a less serious note; I hope that 2013 will finally be the year of the *BSD desktop! :-)
Happy 2013 for all of you /.ers!

The Year of Web Apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431429)

I hope that 2013 will finally be the year of the *BSD desktop! :-)

I understand you were joking, but...

What is more likely to happen is "a year of web apps", as they become viable and replace many desktop widget-based apps, from autocad to miro to zsnes. I know that web apps currently have a reputation for closedness and bad usability, but that can change in the coming year(s). Advancements that will make it possible include HTML5+ (beyond what's already available) [wikipedia.org] , related audio/video standards [wikipedia.org] , client-side DB API [wikipedia.org] , Web-specific GPU acceleration [wikipedia.org] , faster and better client-side scripting languages [wikipedia.org] , and perhaps something like NaCl [wikipedia.org] for fast sandboxed binaries.

Since there are standardized (mostly)copyfree multi-platform [wikipedia.org] browser implementations, this would benefit everyone, from UNIX to Windows to AmigaOS to HaikuOS users. And it will particularly benefit "genuinely free software" [copyfree.org] puritans like myself, as GTK / Qt / SWT / wx / etc (and most projects based on top of them) are not copyfree.

Of course relying on remote apps has its downsides, but specific free software standards can be developed: copyfree server-side code, copyfree unobfuscated client-side code, copyfree databases, and tools to simplify copying / syncing an app from a remote server to your local PC / network. There can be free'n'open common UI and usability guidelines for Web Apps as well.

--libman

Re:60 dollars? (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#42430535)

Euro thousands seperator.

Penis ass shit rape cunt cock poo blowjob bollucks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428199)

Gay fat austistc penguin tux alzeimers nigger shit.

Re:Penis ass shit rape cunt cock poo blowjob bollu (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428791)

rene descartes - is that you?

netbsd=hobby (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428249)

I work at a multinational corporation with 30,000 employees worldwide.
Accessing netbsd.org [netbsd.org] from our corporate network gives permission denied
The explaination for the site access ban is netbsd=hobby site by the ranking of the net filtering service my company uses

Re:netbsd=hobby (3, Funny)

reboot246 (623534) | about 2 years ago | (#42428295)

Don't you mean 30.000 employees?

hobby fox (1)

epine (68316) | about 2 years ago | (#42429537)

A fox joins the lion and donkey in hunting. When the donkey divides their catch into three equal portions, the angry lion kills the donkey and eats him. Then the fox put everything into one pile, leaving just a tiny bit for herself, and told the lion to choose. When the lion asked her how she learned to share things this way, the fox replied, "From the donkey(slashcode fuckup)s misfortune."

I'd rather have a foxhole hobby than be foxy humble.

Re:netbsd=hobby (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428743)

So you just discovered you work in a craptastic corporation. I bet they also force IE6 and Acrobat Reader on you.

Hint: Much money does not correlate with much knowledge.

Re:netbsd=hobby (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429255)

Yeah...

Some employees have access sensitive to information (perhaps even your information) that they are required by law (and good business sense) to protect. I would not want to be the one to have to clean up after 30,000 clueless employees browsing every malware-infested lolcat site on the internet. The IT department doesn't have time to personally vet every website you might want to visit. Old browsers are a necessary evil when you run web-based applications on your intranet, and having the latest and greatest browser doesn't make you immune anyway.

If it's getting in the way of doing your job, ask to have the site unblocked. If it's not, use your own computer and internet connection.

Welcome to the real world. I hope it's not too much of a shock.

Re:netbsd=hobby (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about 2 years ago | (#42429041)

I can access Youtube, Facebook, ./, etc from work, but only 1,000 employees.

Who needs BSD ? It's dead ! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428261)

I mean, who needs BSD these days ? It's like an abortion or afterbirth. Nothing more. Just plain ego's who still work on something and have big clash with the Linux fraction because the one sucks more than the other. BSD is basicly EOL.

After entering protected mode and going to _main with the far jump simply return EOL; or something similar. That's all there is for a new BSD release. Nothing else.

FreeBSD is the most popular free software OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430375)

Noting that restrictively-licensed copyleft is not free software.

--libman

Did I miss something? (-1)

Rod Beauvex (832040) | about 2 years ago | (#42428271)

When did Free BSD come back?

Re:Did I miss something? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428293)

Netcraft has confirmed: BSD is a living dead.

Re:Did I miss something? (1)

Andrewkov (140579) | about 2 years ago | (#42429633)

Zombie process?

Re:Did I miss something? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428455)

It never left, and FYI it's FreeBSD, not "Free BSD".

tl;dr (-1)

BSDISDYINGGUY (2805049) | about 2 years ago | (#42428281)

tl;dr no point in reading BSD is dying and you're wasting your money by donating.

Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428297)

Great news! I've been waiting for this release so long, it's like a second christmas to me!
Thanks!

Lots of good fixes (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428355)

It should be an easy upgrade for anyone running 9.0, and it does add some neat stuff. These dot releases are usually logical improvements and fixes, but important new features do get introduced with regularity when they've been tested extensively in the the development branches.

9.1 is adding KMS for intel (Unless that was already MFC'd back to 9), I think the new code for LSI cards including IBM M1015, support for newer Ralink wireless cards, lots of bug fixes and improvements.

http://www.freebsd.org/releases/9.1R/relnotes.html

FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (5, Insightful)

AddisonW (2318666) | about 2 years ago | (#42428363)

I've got FreeBSD 9.1 running on my machine now and it is absolute Unix heaven.

The NVidia drivers work perfectly with my 580 card. The rest of my hardware was recognized and works properly.

All my gaming is done on my PS3 and Wii and a little bit on my Android devices. So my FreeBSD is primarily used for development and some webbrowsing. Working on a system that is stable and free from the crazy and random crap that plagues the various Linux distros is wonderful. The only negative I've found so far is the desktop's ports aren't as fully setup as you get as with something like Ubunut or Mint since the major focus of most of the FreeBSD devs is on server use.

I would like to thank all the lame people who have so diligently been posting their lame 'is dying' posts. I would never have checked out BSD if it wasn't for them. And it looks like the latest attempt at BSD FUD about funding massively backfired and led to a huge surge in project donations.

I usually hate these type of cute little sayings but after having switched from Linux to FreeBSD it really rings true:

Linux is for people who hate Microsoft
BSD is for people who love Unix

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1, Interesting)

KiloByte (825081) | about 2 years ago | (#42428559)

FreeBSD kernel: perhaps. It's userland, though... What I remember about IRIX was nicer to use than current BSD, and that was aeons ago. I have no need for BSD at the moment, but if I did, it'd be a toss-up between Debian/kFreeBSD and unstable hacks [zfsonlinux.org] .

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

chuckymonkey (1059244) | about 2 years ago | (#42428695)

Oh man, IRIX. You know, that's still probably the fastest and most responsive DE that I've ever used. At least it was on good hardware, I think overall the user interface blew, but it was fast.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (3, Insightful)

LizardKing (5245) | about 2 years ago | (#42428805)

Dear God. I used IRIX on an SGI Indy, and it was the perfect disaster of buggy, unstable software on top opf painfully slow hardware. In comparison, the OpenWindows desktop on my Sun workstation was a thing of reliable elegance.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

chuckymonkey (1059244) | about 2 years ago | (#42429095)

INDY were garbage, it was great on the Onyx3 or Tezro(basically the same thing) systems.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (4, Informative)

Lord_Naikon (1837226) | about 2 years ago | (#42428561)

Yes, that is exactly the way to enjoy FreeBSD - use it for what it's good at. FreeBSD + nVidia is awesome. State of the art compilers, every port installs its development headers, knowing that _you_ are in complete control of the system instead of the other way around. Outstanding development platform. I love it!

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428601)

"crazy and random crap that plagues the various Linux distros"

Speaking of FUD..

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428663)

It's not FUD when it's true.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430453)

You can (and, on a long-enough timeline, will) unwittingly destroy a Debian / Ubuntu / Mint system, leaving it unbootable, simply by selecting a wrong package in Synaptic. Package installer also enables and launches daemons without asking you, which is a huge security problem. That's never the case on any BSD's. The base system is kept separate, and screwing up with packages never screws up your whole system.

Linux distros also tend to be desktop-oriented and bloated. (For example, can you name one Linux distro that doesn't absolutely require perl? FreeBSD doesn't - in that aspect it is even more flexible than Gentoo!) For me sound always "just works" in FreeBSD, while all popular Linux distros require a huge bloated stack of needlessly-complex crap (ALSA, PulseAudio, etc) in order to make it work. I run `top` on my FreeBSD desktop, and I know what everything is, with no process being redundant; I run `top` on Linux, and I feel like I'm trapped in Mumbai during rush hour! As the result of this Linux bloat, FreeBSD actually runs faster than Linux without even trying!

--libman

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (0)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about 2 years ago | (#42431443)

Have already posted in this thread, so can't mod you up, but someone should. I hope you don't get hammered by the zealots, who mistake objective criticism for trolling.

To be fair, many of the problems stem from a desire to make Linux desktops with great functionality, and of course it's perfectly possible to make enterprise-quality stable and robust server and desktop platforms using Linux...

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431317)

"crazy and random crap that plagues the various Linux distros"

Speaking of FUD..

The OP should have clarified it.

1) The 'can't have separate /usr partition' was annoying (Fedora). No, putting parts of usr onto the boot image and overmounting it from network isn't a clean solution.
2) Switching libc because we don't like the old maintainer (Debian) led to different groups for users on remote vs local login.
3) Referencing your home folder for configuration files as a package maintainer is a no go.
4) Why can't nfsv4 on linux use 'advanced' crypto for crypto.

There is a list of minor things which all relate to remote mounts and weird fs location choices which don't affect solitary desktops.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431807)

Yeah, this is why Linux users does not like BSD users, since you are purposefully lying about your "facts":
http://wiki.linux-nfs.org/wiki/index.php/Nfsv4_configuration#Common_NFS4_misunderstandings

I'm not going to bother responding to your other points, but if the BSD people cannot fathom why they are pushing large amounts of people from the FLOSS community away from them, then fuck'em. They're getting pushed further and further into the server room, and they seem pretty happy to gobble down on Apple cock.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428633)

I was about to up-vote your post for your BSD love, but then it devolved into Linux hate. Sterotypes are fun for jokes, but degrade any argument.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428639)

OS X is for people who love Unix.
FreeBSD is for people who love Unix but too cheap to get a Mac.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428869)

You have never used FreeBSD or a traditional UNIX. I get it.

OS X is neat, but entirely 100% different. Please don't bring up the UNIX trademark.

I used OS X before FreeBSD (FreeBSD was not evening running on PowerPC at the time) and MacBSD before there was an OS X.

OS X is much more similar to NeXT/OpenStep than it is to FreeBSD.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (4, Insightful)

AddisonW (2318666) | about 2 years ago | (#42428897)

Why would I pay effectively double for a Mac that:

1. I can't even get a Blu-Ray drive with

2. Apple's crap OpenGL drivers

Having had a tablet now for the past year and finding I spend most of my casual computing done with it and all my development work on my FreeBSD system.

Buying a Mac would be a waste of money. The only reason I would ever get a Mac desktop would be if for some reason I needed to work on a Mac desktop application. That is highly unlikely to ever happen.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430691)

But... They're so shiny:)

My current laptop is the first Mac I've owned. (Mid 2010 17" Macbook Pro) It's a nice piece of hardware, has an excellent warranty, and can run any modern OS, including OS/X. Haven't tried FreeBSD on it yet, but now I'm thinking I might give it a try (I'm guessing it'll support my hardware.)

A while back, I broke the screen (dropped a heavy physics book on it.) I brought it in to the Apple store and they replaced the screen right there in the store, in less than an hour, zero charge, and never even asked me how it broke. (Yes I bought the AppleCare extended warranty.) Is that even possible with any other laptop?

I'm a happy customer. When this one dies, I'll probably replace it with another Macbook. (Shame they discontinued the 17" version tho).

YMMV.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430721)

With retina displays coming fast and furious why would you want some obsolete low res shit like bluray?

BSD is for people who hate Linux (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428697)

Judging by your comments I would say that BSD is for people who hate Linux. :(

Re:BSD is for people who hate Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428947)

This seems to be the case. Anytime Linux comes up on the FreeBSD forums it turns into a huge flame fest. In fact anytime someone suggests adding new drivers, programs or features to FreeBSD it seems to spark a hate fest which gets turned against Linux. It's really a shame. It certainly doesn't encourage people to use FreeBSD or develop for the community.

Re:BSD is for people who hate Linux (4, Insightful)

Bengie (1121981) | about 2 years ago | (#42429145)

More like any time some troll comes in to the FreeBSD forums and smack talks about how great Linux is and how bad BSD is, it turns into a "Linux is teh awesomeest!!!!!1!" and "FreeBSD works well for us"

Re:BSD is for people who hate Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429393)

No, if you like Gentoo or Arch do try FreeBSD. Trolls are for people that hate rational discussion :)

Re:BSD is for people who hate Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429939)

I can't say I hate Linux... I still use it for my main PC at home. It's still a key part in my pay checks.

But keeping Linux up to date and still functional for the two media PCs at home was becoming a pain. With FreeBSD it's still a pain, but with one exception the stupidity has been my own (not making sure that xbmc 12rc1 actually compiled in poudriere is theirs. But with ports in subversion and a directory specific log... that's been reverted).

And BTRFS is a brilliant idea on Linux... but it's still not to the point of ZFS on FreeBSD.

And then there is firewall maintenance and even Rusty Russell agrees that PF is less of a PITA than iptables.

One size doesn't fit all. One size generally doesn't fit most.
If you learn a few, and learn them well, you stand a much better chance of stopping a screwup early.

Re:BSD is for people who hate Linux (1)

AlexLibman (785653) | about 2 years ago | (#42430465)

I don't hate Linux.

I hate its commie license.

--libman

Re:BSD is for people who hate Linux (1)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about 2 years ago | (#42431457)

Not true. See quotes by BSD fans like me. We're not trashing Linux at all - BSD has its good and bad points, so do the various flavours of Linux. This used to be a place where people could come for objective discussion and advice, (sometimes still is) as well as a good chuckle now and then.

Only by admitting that issues exist can we fix them. This is supposed to open software, remember?

Re:BSD is for people who hate Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431745)

BSD users and devs are pretentious assholes, only beaten in annoyance levels by Apple and Ubuntu users.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 2 years ago | (#42429273)

Honest question from a long time Linux user - what does FreeBSD give me that CentOS wont?

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (3, Informative)

siDDis (961791) | about 2 years ago | (#42430239)

There are many reasons!

Jails
ZFS
GEOM Framework
Ports
PF
Carp
Hast
The FreeBSD Handbook / Documentation with consistency

However FreeBSD doesn't excell for everything, for example Java support is far away from production ready. And another thing I ran into recently was that monitoring a lot of files for changes was slow/not scalable at all because kqueue uses file descriptors for monitoring changes in your filesystem. Linux, OS X or even Windows have scalable and working solutions for this.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

rs79 (71822) | about 2 years ago | (#42430825)

"Java is dead" - FreeBSD

Rightly so too. Utter rubbish.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

laffer1 (701823) | about 2 years ago | (#42431201)

Java support is decent in FreeBSD provided OpenJDK will work for you. The only thing I can think of that doesn't work right is the Netbeans profiler and that's mostly their fault.

As for the file descriptor issue, that's quite true. In fact, I started to write an article for BSD magazine on the subject in relation to making decent file system search tools. I never got around to finishing it. The interface is cleaner for the programmer in BSD, but it's not scalable. It's quite common to have search index tools crash in FreeBSD from Gnome or KDE for instance. Someone was working on inotify support for the linuxolator awhile back. Not sure if that was ever finished, but if so it should be made usable natively too.

I would also argue there is one small flaw in GEOM. It's metadata storage conflicts with GPT disk layouts. The backup of the GPT table cannot be stored in the standard location due to GEOM storing it's data at the end of the disk.

It should also be pointed out that PF comes from OpenBSD.

FreeBSD also has poor power management for laptop use. Decent sleep functionality is missing and there isn't a user friendly way to check battery life built in. I added a command line tool, batt(1) to MidnightBSD that can read the sysctl's for battery life and report them easily to work around that issue. I wish they'd do something like that in FreeBSD.

In particular, I find FreeBSD to be an amazing web server and a decent database server. As a file server, it's a little slow with samba without tuning. NFS performance is reasonable, but there are some client compatibility issues with some versions of linux on NFSv4.

Re:FreeBSD 9.1 Is Unix Heaven (1)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about 2 years ago | (#42431407)

You're already at 5, so I can't mod you up, so will just say "well said Sir!"

(Yeah, i know, I'm well known here as a BSD fanboy...but there's a reason for it!)

And yes everyone, I have tried the others - latest attempt being to get Mint to run on an old Eee PC last night...

SEO/link spam donations ftw. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428485)

the netbsd donations pages look like some SEO figured out it was worth donating money to get a link!

http://www.netbsd.org/donations/2012.html

amazing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428487)

With the performance and technology in BSD, why the hell does anyone run Linux again?

Re:amazing. (2)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 2 years ago | (#42428611)

License, GNU userland by default, testing various crazy ideas...? Anyway, to me, this question sounds more like "why would anyone eat more than one kind of soup?".

Re:amazing. (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#42430565)

The license and GNU userland are both traps.

Re:amazing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431905)

This question gets asked time and time again in BSD stories. If you want an actual answer, and not a big crap fest where everybody is patting themselves on the back too hard to bother with the truth, then I'll tell you.

BSDs are behind in some significant areas. Kernel performance and scalability in fact often lags behind Linux, although that is not the biggest reason why many people run Linux today, but it has been a factor in the past which brought more people over. It is a significant reason why Google's server fleet uses Linux. Wider range of architecture and driver support in Linux is a significant factor. Commercial certification and support from a wide range of ISVs and IHVs is a large reason why it is used in the server space. Configurability to small footprint, low power usage, and excellent ARM support is a significant reason why Android went with Linux for its kernel. Ease of installation and promotion of distros like Ubuntu and Fedora are a significant reason why there are so many desktop users.

BSD loses support from Open Source (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428519)

I'm just reading an article on LWN.net

http://lwn.net/Articles/524606/

Where it's claimed that BSD is losing a lot of support due to Linux related tools and development processes only cares for Linux and not BSD.

So basicly because of GNOME adopting things like PulseAudio, systemd and so on makes this desktop to disappear from BSD one day because these underlaying technologies doesn't exist on their systems.

The BSD developers are certainly concerned about this issue.

Please read above article for further informations.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428787)

I can't comment on Lennart Poettering's other abomination (systemd), but PulseAudio doesn't cause issues on NetBSD. Since NetBSD has a decent audio subsystem in the kernel that doesn't require the same userland bodge job that ALSA does, there is just a PulseAudio shim library that sits between stuff like GNOME and the NetBSD audio system calls.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429727)

Pulse works fine on FreeBSD, if you want it.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (1, Insightful)

rmstar (114746) | about 2 years ago | (#42428871)

[...]Where it's claimed that BSD is losing a lot of support due to Linux related tools and development processes only cares for Linux and not BSD.[...]

You know, part of the problem is that they have a crappy package management infrastructure, something I really find puzzling. Ports just does not scale, and things like a WM environment (kde, or xfce) are just hard to get working.

For example, if you start from a bare install, and build & install xfce (which will take a while) you will be surprised to find that X isn't a dependency. If you compile X, well, startx has to be compiled separately, which sort of makes sense if you are seriously autistic. Gdm? It builds, no problem. Installs in a broken and unusable state by default. Xfce plugins? Please build each one separately. And it goes on and on and on like this.

The net result is that freebsd is frustrating to install and use. More so than slackware was a decade ago, and this should really tell you how bad the situation is.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (5, Informative)

ottdmk (1376807) | about 2 years ago | (#42429195)

I have to respectfully disagree. While it takes some getting used to, the FreeBSD ports system is, imo, absolutely awesome. Running into conflicts is extremely rare. I ran into a software conflict two months ago. It was the first time in probably five years. (I've been using FreeBSD as my main home system since 2002.)

Yes, if you install a desktop, X is not automatically a dependency. This situation works rather well for those who want to remotely log into the machine and use a GUI. Until recently FreeBSD supported FreeNX quite well (I've had trouble with the port recently. In my spare time I'm hacking away at it.). If you're remote administering a headless system, having X pulled in as a dependency is not what you want.

I'm sorry you ran into difficulties with X. The thing with X is that you have to remember to use the x11/xorg meta-port. You can install all the X components one at a time through the other ports and I imagine that if you're building a desktop it would be an exercise in extreme frustration.

If you ever decide to try FreeBSD again you might want to try PC-BSD [pcbsd.org] . It's a full FreeBSD system (they just released 9.1 as well) but the installer installs a desktop by default and the PBI system is less arcane then ports can be. (Bear in mind that PBI is built from the FreeBSD ports system and ports remain available to users in PC-BSD.)

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (1)

Alex Zepeda (10955) | about 2 years ago | (#42429643)

The ports system is an absolute nightmare. Sure you've got things like portmaster and portupgrade (the latter is currently broken with no fix in sight). I spend far more time mangling ports than I do dealing with package management on any Debian based system. It took over forty seconds(!!) on an otherwise idle system (Ivy Bridge i5 w/ SSD) to list all the installed ports and their versions (pkg_version). Using the ports system is akin to pulling teeth as far as I can tell.

The problems with X, for me, have mainly been lack of driver support (Ivy Bridge support is pants). But that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430045)

I'll admit the package management system that ships with FreeBSD 9.0 is a bit dated.

portmaster and portupgrade were valiant attempts to work around their deficiencies.
pkgng and poudriere do a better job of it.

And there are some caveats.
Debian appears faster at that query of installed ports and versions because that data is stored in one flat text file. *IF* there is a disk corruption, it can be very dicey recovering that file.
FreeBSD's traditional package management kept that same data in several files per port. Harder to corrupt the whole, but significantly slower.
The pkgng approach is to put it into sqlite. It's significantly faster than Debian, but I don't look forward to when I corrupt the database. But so far it looks like I can backup and version control that information much more easily than I can under Debian.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430871)

I really like the ports system, I miss it when I am on arch linux or windows.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431339)

I have to respectfully disagree. While it takes some getting used to, the FreeBSD ports system is, imo, absolutely awesome. Running into conflicts is extremely rare. I ran into a software conflict two months ago. It was the first time in probably five years. (I've been using FreeBSD as my main home system since 2002.)

Sorry but I kinda disagree.

I use FreeBSD on various servers, its my main choice for a server, I like the main system, I like the idea of ports, BUT:
- a *lot* of times a software gets a new version and the ports skip it. So you install mediawiki 1.18.1 and then update to 1.18.4. (just an example).
- patch backport: I really hate backporting of patches. so sometimes you have version 1.1 of a software and then you get version 1.1_1 which is actually almost 1.2. never liked it, I prefer the vanilla software.
- there *are* software conflicts. Try to install a couple of things that requires icu and keep them up to date. most likely you will not be able to update une of the packages 'cause it doesn't work with the old/new version of icu. Avahi still requires icu 3.8, guess what, it's not in the ports anymore.

The ports idea is very nice, but to me it feels like it's not really well maintained.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429493)

Sounds like you are doing it wrong. Both ports have meta-ports which pull all dependencies. However, if you try to install piecewise, it won't stop you.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429791)

I admit to having gotten a few less than desirable surprises when I first setup FreeBSD 9.0 for the home media PCs. But I can't say they were worse than the surprises Ubuntu had given me the past couple of years either.

No, xfce4, gnome, and xbmc did not require an X server to be built. But I had my choices of x servers to choose from.
No, xorg's xservers did not require hal, but then if you explicitly provide an xorg.conf, you don't need hal.
Hal not requiring dbus wasn't pleasant... but I'm not sure that hal needing dbus to actually work is pleasant either.
I should be frustrated by those... but having suffered through getting newer versions of X11 built on AIX, it's generally an indicator of how much I've been paying attention to how X has been re-architected.

If you don't mind the default options, most of these were resolvable with 'pkg-add -r' and the default repos.

Portmaster reduced a lot of the pain.

More pain was resolved when I discovered poudriere and pkgng.

And the last little bit of pain seems to have been resolved since I discovered when I have to tell pkgng that I want to do shlib tracking and double check behind the maintainers.

The standard packaging system in FreeBSD is somewhat primitive, but not quite as primitive as I have to suffer through with Solaris 10 and 9.
pkgng is pretty damn slick.
Being able to customize the options to a port is pretty damn slick and easier to shove into source control than I could manage with RPM and DEB based Linux distros.

All in all it's less pain than getting Electronic Design Automation software to play nice with SuSE. It's been low enough pain I've contemplated seeing how much of the EDA software I can get to run under FreeBSD.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (1)

Ankle (633399) | about 2 years ago | (#42429995)

There is always the new package manager if you don't need any special options and are fine with binaries:
http://wiki.freebsd.org/pkgng [freebsd.org]
https://mebsd.com/make-build-your-freebsd-word/pkgng-first-look-at-freebsds-new-package-manager.html [mebsd.com]

It easily rivals apt-get but I still stick with the regular ports system because I need to compile several packages (other than the dependancies) myself for the different options not available with binaries and I've never found compiling from source anywhere near as simple on linux distributions as it is on FreeBSD.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 2 years ago | (#42431469)

pkg-ng does probably address all of the grandparent's complaints. Unfortunately, the security incident means that we don't currently have any binary package sets available (hopefully they'll appear very soon). It's also worth noting that a PackageKit back end for pkg-ng is underway, which should make it easy to use your favourite desktop environment's package management tool on FreeBSD. As most of the pkgng logic is in a shared library, with the pkg tool being a thin wrapper around it, it's very easy to integrate into GUI tools.

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430389)

Ehh? Ports is worse than Gentoo's Portage?

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430597)

Not when you take the license [gentoo.org] into account...

--libman

Re:BSD loses support from Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42429525)

GMONE3 is poorly designed junk, so nothing of value is lost. Use a good desktop manager instead, the BSD support many of them

Alive & Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428843)

Now we know for sure: *BSD is alive and well.

Netflix uses FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42428881)

The FreeBSD main page links to this story at Phoronix :
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTExNDM

Note the comment "Netflix represents 30% of all North American internet traffic during peak hours"

Working Great (5, Informative)

Sadsfae (242195) | about 2 years ago | (#42429561)

I've been using 9.1-RELEASE since SVN was tagged 2012-12-04 on both my home and work desktop. ZFS root is awesome, and userland is pretty much the latest bleeding edge upstream, I've had absolutely no issues running a full-fledged XFCE-4.10, Firefox ESR 10.x with Flash, 3D accel, everything desktop.

I've used freebsd-update to go from both 9.1-RC3 and 9.0-RELEASE to 9.1-RELEASE also switching to pkgng.
I'd recommend folks to look at the following guides if they want to use ZFS root or create a nice, full-featured desktop OS.

http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=31662 [freebsd.org] (ZFS ROOT)
https://cooltrainer.org/2012/01/02/a-freebsd-9-desktop-how-to [cooltrainer.org] (good desktop guide)

Great job BSD devs, keep it up.

Re:Working Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431279)

I read the second link and here my notes:
  you dont expect people to edit, configure a system that way? Hello? We are in the end of 2012 now.
  gnome 2.32 is old. Tell us how to compile GNOME 3.8 on BSD.

Bent over, spread wide, take that black box! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430567)

Yes! That's why I choose FOSS like BSD and Linux!

So I can install a proprietary driver like NVidia's 'blob' for BSD or Linux, which has had at least 2-3 remote exploits which were patched and we don't know if there's more because we cannot audit the code.

Between NVidia's proprietary driver(s) and proprietary Flash, you guys make me laugh.

Would you install a rootkit too, if it jacked you off?

Re:Bent over, spread wide, take that black box! (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about 2 years ago | (#42431121)

FreeBSD works similar to Linux in that regard. Nvidia's driver is available if you want it, but you don't have to use it and the OS certainly doesn't include it by default.

The main difference is that when Nvidia came to FreeBSD the FreeBSD developers (unlike the Linux kernel counterpart) appreciated that a big hardware vendor wanted to support their OS.

BSD is dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42430821)

Long live BSD!

BSD is Dying (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42431095)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7tvI6JCXD0

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