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Samsung And Docomo Reportedly Working on Tizen Phone

Unknown Lamer posted about a year ago | from the meego-lives-on dept.

Cellphones 88

sfcrazy writes with this excerpt from Muktware: "Samsung, which became a market leader thanks to Android, is reportedly working on a smartphone powered by Linux-based Tizen operating system. The company is working with NTT Docomo to create a Tizen powered smartphone. ... Samsung already has its Bada operating system which it uses in some devices. Samsung was expected to merge Bada efforts with Tizen but there has been no attempt in that regards. How Samsung, the Android market leader, positions this phone and creates an app ecosystem around it will be interesting to watch."

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Hmmm (-1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year ago | (#42450125)

I'm sure Apple has a patent on Linux on phones. I mean, their products are Unix-based. I bet SCO might get in on some of this action too, lol.

Re:Hmmm (4, Informative)

ClaraBow (212734) | about a year ago | (#42450209)

Dude, stop trolling. It's Microsoft that's collection money on every Android/ Linux phone sold!

Re:Hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450533)

From Samsung and HTC sure. Buy some other brand, and they get nothing.

Re:Hmmm (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | about a year ago | (#42450713)

From Samsung and HTC sure. Buy some other brand, and they get nothing.

And I'm not even sure that they are collecting anything from the two - considering how fast the deals were made.

MSFT needs Samsung and HTC - as Windows phone producers - more than they need MSFT. It's very likely that under the deal they pay the usual Windows phone license fees, which now also magically (and mostly for PR purposes) covers the MSFT's Android claims.

Re:Hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450363)

FYI, your use of "lol" demonstrates that you're an idiot.

Re:Hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450627)

Never mind, I take that comment back.

Bada is dead (1)

Dynamoo (527749) | about a year ago | (#42450131)

Bada is dead as far as I can see, the last handsets running that OS were released in 2011, with no activity at all during 2012. It would seem pretty obvious though that Samsung would develop a Tizen handset as it was a leading proponent of LiMo which folded into Tizen.

Whether or not anyone will care about Tizen is another matter. Samsung tried to push LiMo with the Vodafone 360 range back in 2009. That was pretty much a failure, I don't think that the odds are in favour of a Tizen device, especially if it is a carrier exclusive.

Bada dead, Tizen undead (3, Informative)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | about a year ago | (#42450231)

I don't think that the odds are in favour of a Tizen device, especially if it is a carrier exclusive.

But it might work in the rest of the world, where carrier-exclusive handsets are uncommon. Such tying of handsets to carriers is sometimes frowned upon legally, but more often rejected by the customers who recognize its inherent disadvantages for them. Actually, many of us can't fathom the carrier-exclusivity and "subsidies" which are widespread in the US market.

Re:Bada dead, Tizen undead (1)

Desler (1608317) | about a year ago | (#42450421)

What does the US have to do with Samsung making a carrier-exclusive phone in Japan?

Re:Bada dead, Tizen undead (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450465)

What does the US have to do with Samsung making a carrier-exclusive phone in Japan?

Because it's a Linux based phone, and we here on /. know two things to be true: this year is the year of the Linux desktop and everything is inevitably about the US.

Re:Bada dead, Tizen undead (1)

obarthelemy (160321) | about a year ago | (#42452013)

the subsidies are easy to fathom:

1- people would rather pay $100 up front and then $100 per month for 2 years (total = $2.500) rather than $600 + $50x25 = $1.850. that's idiotic, but that's the way the mind works.
2- People don't realize they'd pay a lot less by doing a consumer credit on the phone, and getting a no-commitment contract
3- The government is not acting against what are, in effect, usury rates

Re:Bada dead, Tizen undead (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42453703)

3- The government is not acting against what are, in effect, usury rates

I suspect item #1 is the biggest issue for most people. Meanwhile, for people who do the math, the problem is you have a rather limited choice of national carriers. T-Mobile is the only one that will give you a SIM card, and a SIM card-only. Even once your contract is up, AT&T won't give the phone subsidy back to you. Then there is the issue of phones having rather short half-lives, notice how much they tend to advance generation to generation? With the rapid advances in cellphone, getting a new handset every 2 years seems fairly sensible to most people.

Re:Bada dead, Tizen undead (1)

Belial6 (794905) | about a year ago | (#42455579)

Your reasons are correct. #1 is the biggest problem though. It stems from the fact that most children in the US are never taught what the word "Free" (as in beer) actually means. The word "Free" gets thrown around for things that must be paid for non-stop in the US, and most of the population eats it up.

This summer at the California State Fair, my son got an itch to go and get all of the "Free" stuff that was being offered in the exhibit halls. Having had the "Free" conversation many times, we gave him a quick reminder, and let him have at it. There were a lot of venders that got real uncomfortable when an 8 year old asked them if the item they posted as "Free" was really free or if he would have to pay with personal information. Many were incapable of understanding the question. The one place that was giving away free promotional items with no strings attached was ecstatic with the question.

In the US most people think that they are getting a free phone. If you point out that they are paying for the phone, they will tell you that they understand, and then explain that it is OK because their phone was free.

Re:Bada dead, Tizen undead (1)

DuckDodgers (541817) | about a year ago | (#42461777)

In general, I agree with your logic. But in the particular case of smart phones and wireless plans in the US, from my research it's cheaper to go no-contract if you're an individual but cheaper to get a contract if you're buying for two or more people (and plan to stay with the carrier for at least two years).

On contract for Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, and T-Mobile I'm pretty sure the first phone and its minutes and data cost a lot more than a no-contract plan, but each additional phone shares the plan for a flat $40 or $45 extra. Verizon, for example, is $80 per month for no-contract smart phone plans with 2GB of data but about $120 per month for a roughly equivalent contract plan. For an individual, the no-contract option saves money. But for two people, either way they spend $160 per month and with a contract the purchase price of their two phones is $400, while on no-contract the purchase price of the two phones could be as much as $1200.

AT&T Wireless is $65 per month for no contract smart phones, but it's $15 per GB after the first (so if you use more than 1 GB of data per month, you're spending $80, same as the Verizon Wireless no contract smart phone plan). And the on-contract pricing is similar.

Sprint, as far as I can tell, doesn't have its own no-contract plans and instead farms that out to subsidiaries Virgin Mobile and Boost Mobile. Virgin Mobile and Boost Mobile don't let you bring your own device, as far as I can tell, so you can save money on their contracts but you're restricted to phones a few generations old. I don't particularly care if my phone can't play Angry Birds Star Wars, but with my Virgin Mobile LG Optimus V (purchased 18 months ago) even when I'm using the house wifi it takes twenty five seconds to render the mobile web page with the local weather report. The next time I purchase a phone, it won't be Virgin Mobile - I've decided having a nerfed smart phone is a waste.

Of course if you really want to save money, you skip the funky phones entirely and go for a cheap feature phone and no contract setup. The next time I buy a phone, I may go for a big upgrade and spend a fortune on a top of the line Samsung, HTC, or LG device on another carrier. But I might just decide to keep more money in my bank account and drop back to a feature phone.

Re:Bada is dead (1)

peppepz (1311345) | about a year ago | (#42452155)

Even being dead, Bada still managed to sell 20% more than Windows Phone in Q3 2012 ( http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=2237315 [gartner.com] ) .

Samsung Bada phones cost about 20% less than Samsung Android phones based on equivalent hardware (see the Wave 3 vs the Galaxy S Plus for instance). People who buy phones for their out-of-the-box features might be interested in the saving.

Re:Bada is dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42457235)

Not hard to do, since effectively, there wasn't a windows phone till the Q4.
Now that Nokia's Lumia 920 has established itself, next quarter you can stop misinterpreting other peoples statistics.

Re:Bada is dead (1)

Trongy (64652) | about a year ago | (#42457611)

Sure. The Nokia Lumina 800 and 710 didn't exist prior to Q4, neither did the HTC Titan, Samsung Focus and many others.

Re:Bada is dead (1)

DuckDodgers (541817) | about a year ago | (#42461873)

To be fair, the handful of people that pay attention to Windows Phone are probably the same handful of consumers that knew Windows Phone 8 was coming in Q4 and also knew that no older Windows Phone devices would get upgraded with the new software.

I've seen Windows Phone and I like it, but I'm not surprised it's dead in the market. Microsoft comes out with Windows Mobile, a few Microsoft enthusiasts buy it, then they abandon it. Then Microsoft comes out with Windows Phone 7, a few Microsoft enthusiasts buy it, and then they abandon it again. Microsoft took the early adopters who could be the people using word of mouth to build hype for their product, and screwed them. Between that and the fact that Microsoft brought its big guns to the mobile game at least four years after Apple and Google, I'm not surprise it's a failure.

Re:Bada is dead (1)

peppepz (1311345) | about a year ago | (#42473703)

Those statistics include all kinds of Microsoft mobile OSes, including Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, which have been around for a long time, and in particular, one is as old as Bada, while the other is much older.

They can't be serious! (4, Funny)

erroneus (253617) | about a year ago | (#42450147)

Are they just Tizen us?

Re:They can't be serious! (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | about a year ago | (#42464183)

Seriously, that's how we're supposed to be pronouncing it? I've been pronouncing it with an "aye" sound, as in "Tizer" (the soft drink), or "Tiger" (the, er, tiger).

What is the point (3, Informative)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | about a year ago | (#42450221)

For consumers what is the benefit of another phone OS with another incompatible app store? What features does this OS have. Is it faster? Cheaper? Prettier?

Re:What is the point (0)

alen (225700) | about a year ago | (#42450319)

the android market is really the Samsung market since Samsung takes home something like 95% of all profits on android phones and sells the most units

samsung would be dumb not to think about dumping google

Re:What is the point (0)

farlukar (225243) | about a year ago | (#42450353)

For consumers what is the benefit of another phone OS with another incompatible app store? What features does this OS have. Is it faster? Cheaper? Prettier?

Yeah, heaven forbid we ever make something new. Choice is bad, h'mkay?

Re:What is the point (3, Insightful)

neokushan (932374) | about a year ago | (#42450437)

He's not saying that new things are bad, he's saying that new things that have no benefit over the old things are pointless. In fact, he's not even saying that, he's asking what would make this new OS better than existing offerings, enough to make dealing with a new app ecosystem worth bothering with. He's asking a question, not making a statement.

I'm inclined to agree - what's so special about Tizen? Educate on why it'd be worth getting a Tizen phone over Android, Bada, Windows Phone or iOS.

Re:What is the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450499)

He's not saying that new things are bad, he's saying that new things that have no benefit over the old things are pointless.

It doesn't have to be better. It can just be different, cheaper (to buy or to manufacture), longer battery life, etc, etc. Maybe it's just better for Samsung to have more control over the OS. Could be patents related, could be Google's % of the app store take, could be this OS has lower hardware requirements so Samsung can use cheaper chips, less RAM, etc ... it could be many things. None of it has to be better for the consumer, though that cold turn out to be one of the byproducts.

Re:What is the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42451123)

Would not being cheaper to buy and having better battery life be features that make it 'better'? It is precisely those things that the person was asking if this OS would bring.

Re:What is the point (1)

alteran (70039) | about a year ago | (#42461779)

There's not a lot in it for the consumer. Surprise!

For Samsung, however, moving away from Android likely gets them out of an expensive and pointless proxy war with Apple. That's a big deal for Samsung.

Apple's Android vendetta has been about Holy Vengeance Upon Google from the beginning, not really about Samsung. If Samsung could gain a platform that they won't be sued over for including basic functions, Samsung could get back to the business of making smartphones, rather than being a professional defendant.

Making smartphones is actually something Samsung does phenomenally well. Also, Tizen is targeted at other gadgets (read: tablets and smart TVs), other areas of Samsung strength.

The downside for Samsung is that Tizen does not yet have an app-building community like iOS or Android, and it would take years to build one. This looks like Samsung testing waters to me.

Re:What is the point (1)

neokushan (932374) | about a year ago | (#42462009)

Samsung already has their own mobile OS, though: Bada. That's mostly why this move is being questioned as a large "..er?". That and there's actually several existing OS's that are free and open source, so why make yet another one? There has to be more benefit than just "It's not Android" for it to be worthwhile. I don't think anyone thinks Samsung is stupid, I think it's more a case of we don't seem to know a lot about Tizen and what makes it so special.

Re:What is the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42456533)

For consumers what is the benefit of another phone OS with another incompatible app store? What features does this OS have. Is it faster? Cheaper? Prettier?

Yeah, heaven forbid we ever make something new. Choice is bad, h'mkay?

To extend your argument, the best ecosystem we ever had was when EVERY PHONE had a different operating system! There was lots of choice then!

Re:What is the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450359)

You are right. We should have stuck with what we had in the 90s.

Re:What is the point (3, Insightful)

UpnAtom (551727) | about a year ago | (#42450557)

It'll be cheaper than iOS of course.

There's a good chance it'll be faster than Android (no Dalvik layer) but many suspect that HTML5 isn't a good basis for apps and that Sailfish will be the fastest Linux-based operating system.

If it's real Linux, it's inherently more secure than iOS and Android. Depending on how open the source is, it may be future proof.

Tizen was announced before Sailfish and really the latter stole its thunder with the Maemo/MeeGo community.

Sailfish has compatibility with MeeGo, is largely open source, will probably be very fast and has an advanced UI. Whereas Tizen has Samsung behind it.

Re:What is the point (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about a year ago | (#42450783)

it'll be cheaper than Android probable, and possibly more profitable for Samsung too (they won't have to pay the Microsoft tax on each android handset)

As for HTML5, its almost certainly crap for high-performance stuff like games, but perfectly capable for the most low-perf stuff like displaying screens and buttons. But then you can say the same for dalvik - all the high-perf apps I have turn out to be written with the NDK. Mozilla's firefox OS would disagree with you though.

Re:What is the point (1)

ultrasawblade (2105922) | about a year ago | (#42450883)

Doesn't Dalvik give Android apps CPU independence like Java does, though? I mean, you never know when x86 might actually gain a foothold in mobile, or maybe Hitachi might rise from the ashes with another SuperH chip ...

Re:What is the point (1)

Desler (1608317) | about a year ago | (#42451139)

Sure, but many performance-sensitive apps like games use the NDK and are compiled for ARM only.

Re:What is the point (1)

fph il quozientatore (971015) | about a year ago | (#42451263)

I never really understood what the point of platform independence here is. What is the problem with running a compiler once for every platform you are shipping to, and shipping the right binary to your customers? Is it really worth to pay in performance just to have "platform independence"?

Re:What is the point (1)

Belial6 (794905) | about a year ago | (#42455771)

Yes it is worth it. Your suggestion is what the old Windows phones used to do. It simply didn't work. Way too much stuff targeted only one processor, and it was often hard to tell if apps were even written for your device. The speed issue is a red herring. Current processors are plenty fast for running an emulation layer that creates platform independence. The vast majority of users would not notice the difference between an emulated environment vs. a native environment. Most phones are not running the absolute fastest processors out their. Thus is speed was their biggest problem, they can easily solve by getting a faster phone.

Beyond all of that, processor independence is future proofing of the OS. As we have seen with desktop Windows, most people choose their OS based on what has tons of software and wide support. Look at Windows Phone to see what happens when you have to dump your entire old library of software and start from scratch.

Re:What is the point (1)

DuckDodgers (541817) | about a year ago | (#42461959)

Platform independence with Java for Android gave Google three big advantages in additions to the ones Belial6 mentioned:

1. The barrier to entry for developers was very low. You can write Android applications using a Mac, a Windows PC, or a Linux PC. For iOS and Windows Phone, you need a Mac or Windows PC, respectively, to develop for it.

2. Java is more widely known and easier to learn than C++ or Objective C.

3. Java has security features built into its virtual machine - you can launch a Java program with specific restrictions on what APIs it can use or what portions of the filesystem it can access. I presume Dalvik has the same features. I believe it would be much harder to enforce the same constraints on a native application. ( I am not saying Java security is flawless - security flaws in the JVM are discovered often, including in enforcement of the security restrictions. But I suspect even so, it's easier to restrict an application written in Java from certain activities than to restrict the equivalent C++ or Objective C application. )

Re:What is the point (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | about a year ago | (#42459301)

If it's real Linux, it's inherently more secure than iOS and Android. Depending on how open the source is, it may be future proof.

WTF does this even mean?

Re:What is the point (1)

Raenex (947668) | about a year ago | (#42466039)

If it's real Linux, it's inherently more secure than iOS and Android.

Why do you say that? First of all, Android is already based on Linux. Second, Android is already more secure than the typical Linux desktop in that the apps are permission-based, compared with the typical desktop apps that run installers as root and have all the permissions of the user when running afterwards.

Re:What is the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450611)

The big potential benefit is that it could be the second smartphone to ever appear on the market, which doesn't utterly completely suck beyond redemption. (The first was Nokia's N900.)

If we are ever going to have good phones, then phones which don't suck will have to be mass produced first. You can't go from iOS or Android straight to non-suckiness; people would find the change to jarringly radical. Baby steps. Tizen is the best hope we all have, at the moment.

Re:What is the point (1)

Mints (146243) | about a year ago | (#42450635)

For consumers what is the benefit of another choice with more choices?

Fixed that for you. And the answer is choice is the benefit for consumers. Maybe even competition for consumers by providers.

Re:What is the point (1)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | about a year ago | (#42451667)

I understand that it is a new choice. But as a consumer why would I choose this OS? I listed a couple reasons people choose one product over the other. What is the two sentence pitch for Tizen?

Re:What is the point (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | about a year ago | (#42460861)

> What is the two sentence pitch for Tizen?

"Tizen: not a toy"

You can use the second sentence for backup purposes.

Recursive acronym (1)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | about a year ago | (#42461681)

> What is the two sentence pitch for Tizen?

"Tizen: not a toy"

You can use the second sentence for backup purposes.

Fail. You started with a T but failed to use the rest of the letters. Please try again.
"Tizen Is Zword Eword Nword"

Re:What is the point (2)

ThePhilips (752041) | about a year ago | (#42450805)

For consumers what is the benefit of another phone OS with another incompatible app store? What features does this OS have. Is it faster? Cheaper? Prettier?

Probably the same advantages as the Bada OS. In other words, very few advantages for consumers. (Though I'm hopeful that Bada's battery life would get to Tizen. 2-4 days on single charge!)

The purpose of the new OS is to ensure that the manufacturers have a bargaining chip when dealing with the OS providers, Google and Microsoft. Also they can develop it independently and integrate whatever features they want - if the Google or Microsoft are reluctant to act or demand too high pay for the customization.

The only real advantage of another mobile OS I can imagine is that we, consumers, potentially now even further from monopoly/duopoly of mobile OSs. That guarantees that we would have more choices down the road.

Re:What is the point (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | about a year ago | (#42451099)

More competition is always good. Keeps the rest on their toes. That's why I'd like to see MS succeed with their mobile offering - a third player is good, more competition - but unfortunately they messed it up quite thoroughly.

So well maybe Samsung can manage. They have good hardware for starters. Key problem is going to be the apps, of course. Both Android and iOS have created a very serious lock-in factor that way.

Re:What is the point (1)

mlts (1038732) | about a year ago | (#42452837)

Competition is good, but I don't want yet another locked down app platform to choose from. The least locked down is Android because having full root control of the phone does not mean that apps are in any way less contained (unlike iOS where a JB means that the internal security is completely compromised, and apps can write outside of their cells.)

If I could have the ideal OS, it would be like Tizen, except it would allow the RPM packages to have signed native code (which can be written in C, C++, or anything that can produce a Linux ELF binary.) That way, no JIT is needed except for the UI stuff. The OS would enforce permissions with SELinux, perhaps with chroot as well.

On the user side, permissions would be done similar to iOS and BlackberryOS. If an app wants access to the phone, GPS, contacts, music, photos, or other items, the user will be asked.

Of course, there would be a mechanism similar to ADB so if a phone is completely corrupted, it can be booted in a recovery mode, accessed from a desktop computer, the encrypted LUKS filesystems mounted, and either files recovered, or new images copied over.

All and all, the closest thing to an open, usable phone distro is Android on a rooted device with an unlocked bootloader. I think the way HTC handles bootloader unlocking is a fair compromise between keeping a novice user relatively safe, while allowing the tech savvy people who build, develop, and change ROMS the full use of their device.

Re:What is the point (1)

kubernet3s (1954672) | about a year ago | (#42451627)

Hence "Linux based." Apps will only need to be repackaged, the source code probably won't even need to be changed.

Re:What is the point (1)

mlts (1038732) | about a year ago | (#42452457)

Bingo. Also as important is their security model and app structure:

Tizen uses sandboxes (where apps can read their files and system libs, but not other app directories), similar to iOS and a security manager called SMACK (Simple Mandatory Access Control Kernel). It uses two UIDs, root and the UID the apps run under. For package management, it appears to use RPM.

I see a number of good/bad/ugly points about it. If I have root on the device, in theory, it should not affect app security (unlike iOS where a jailbreak kills all app security.)

The biggest downside is that apps have to be written in HTML5. It would be nice if the platform allowed native binaries to be used, but it appears that all apps have to be in HTML. This by itself is a downer, as I don't know of any JIT interpreter for HTML, and the translating is relatively slow.

So, (and this is IMHO of course), for writing relative fluff like another Angry Birds port, Tizen will be fine. However, if I'm looking to do something more complex than that on the platform [1], that would be difficult, and with the HTML5 translating, would require a lot more CPU than the Dalvik JIT VM, or iOS's Objective-C binaries.

It would be nice if Tizen's RPM packages could offer both... so I can have a HTML5 frontend for the UI, but have Linux binaries [2] for the serious work.

[1]: On Android, I can pop up a command shell, fetch a confidential Word document via sftp, fire up an Office app to edit it, convert it to PDF, gpg sign and encrypt it, then E-mail it to a potential client, all on a device that has hard disk protection. On iOS this is doable (although with a jailbroken device, it is far easier). However on a device that just groks HTML5, doing this type of workflow would be impossible.

[2]: Assuming there are usable libraries on the system. I can always statically link, but that would mean the apps made would be porky.

Re:What is the point (1)

DuckDodgers (541817) | about a year ago | (#42462345)

With Android you can use the Native Development Kit if you want to do things that it's not feasible to do well with Java/Dalvik. So I presume Tizen could do the same. HTML5 would be for mainstream applications like Angry Birds and Cut the Rope and weather widgets. I presume you could still write native applications in C or whatever language you wanted, Tizen is open source after all.

In terms of performance, Javascript is on a path to become the fastest interpreted language in the world. IE, Opera, Safari, and especially Chrome and Firefox are locked in a performance war and of course Chrome and Firefox are fully open source so anyone can benefit from their work. Watch the performance jumps between the various editions of Tom's Hardware's "Browser Grand Prix" web browser comparison test. I believe Chrome does in fact to JIT translation for Javascript, and since Firefox's performance is not too far behind I suspect they do too.

Re:What is the point (1)

ducomputergeek (595742) | about a year ago | (#42454033)

This is really a hedge against Google. WIth Google aquiring Motorola Mobility, they are actually posed to start producing their own consumer oriented branded hardware for Android. This far the "Google phones/tablets" have really been aimed at developers, not the end consumers. Therefore they aren't a perceived threat to Samsung. But the instant Google gets serious about releasing their own branded hardware aimed at consumers you'll notice how quickly Samsung will start to ship other OSes.

I"m curious to know (2)

ClaraBow (212734) | about a year ago | (#42450251)

Does anyone know if there is an Android comparability layer?

Waste of time and energy (1)

NaCh0 (6124) | about a year ago | (#42450259)

I love linux and use it everywhere but let's be honest - Tizen isn't going anywhere. These developers would be better off building a GPL pure ecosystem around Android.

Re:Waste of time and energy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450337)

Not as long as Google is doing real strange things with respect to wlan adhoc mode...

The ecosystem is already there (4, Interesting)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#42450261)

is called HTML5. A lot of the stack can be found and used elsewhere (i.e. Apache Cordova [apache.org]) and shared by a lot of mobile OSs (webos, tizen, bada, sailfish, mer, and probably others, and more important, could be installed in the other platforms, including desktop.

Re:The ecosystem is already there (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450643)

By installing Hydra [maemo.org], the Nokia N9 already supports Cordova, including W3C, Opera and indeed Tizen apps. But it also shows the weak spots: usability, functionality and speed is very much sub par compared to the native Qt environment. And HTML5/JS being a mediocre platform at best for programming applications, I can't find a reason why anyone would want a Tizen device.

I'm much more interested in SailfishOS, which builds on Qt/QML, but will have support for Python and Android as well. Undoubtedly, since Sailfish is based on Mer, a full Linux distro and because Jolla is much more open source minded (so they claim), support for Cordova and other platforms will come very quickly. Most of the stuff already available for the N9 could be ported very easily.

Re:The ecosystem is already there (1)

UpnAtom (551727) | about a year ago | (#42450773)

Sailfish will be mostly open and compatible with Nemo.

https://sailfishos.org/wiki/QA [sailfishos.org]

I suspect nearly all MeeGo apps will run natively assuming ARM architecture. Maemo apps (of which there's about 700) will need minimal adjustment.

Re:The ecosystem is already there (1)

Lisias (447563) | about a year ago | (#42450761)

PhoneGap sucked badly on anything except the most basic applications. Little marketing apps were ok (or almost) on it. Everything else endup on a terrible user experience.

I don't see how Cordova could overcome this.

Re:The ecosystem is already there (1)

scorp1us (235526) | about a year ago | (#42451413)

All the HTML5 apps I've seen sucked. Don't take my word for it, Zuckerberg made Facebook go back to a native app. Let's face it web developers and their develoment paradigms are not up to the task of really cool, responsive interfaces. If you disagree with me, then please explain how a very organic, unorganized process of evolution from client/server architecture using HTML 1 to 4 coupled with a bolted-on interpreter, and bolted on Style Sheets produce an ideal app development environment.

I, and many others, prefer true object oriented app development. These are your traditional native interfaces - Java (Android), C++ (Qt/Wt), C#/.NET. flexibly monolithic or client server, meanwhile you have HTML/JS/CSS competing over client-server (and failing.. SPDY/WebSockets anyone?) In fact, Wt (Qt copied to be for web sites) shows that the OOP model is superior because Wt will down-convert your C++ OOP app to HTML/JS/CSS (and on the fly too), but there exists no way to take HTML/JS/CSS and create an OOP app. The result is the OOP paradigm wins. Non-client server apps have the advantage of not having to shuffle data (images, 1meg+) over a socket (even a local one) so the resulting apps feels snappier because it is. We'll also be using 3D on phones eventually. Sure it is possible now, but how do you get that HTML5 app to shuffle textures around quickly.

I can tell you how we got here, and it's thanks to Microsoft. They kept trying for vendor lock-in and the web was the best way (at the time - trumpet winsock days) to target everyone. HTML did not care about your platform. But MS fought that with their implementation of the box model (and fortunately lost) Somewhere along the line, the fact that you didn't have to care about the platform was a win. But eventually it slipped . You had to care about the browser, and you still do. This is why when you make a web app you still need to worry. Meanwhile in OOP land, we don't care anymore. As long as your API version is supported you know it will work, and 100%. That is worth it. You don't need 3 browsers installed to consume all the web apps, your platform just supports whatever APIs, transparent to the user.

So Tizen will fail because Tizen apps are not portable. If people were to invest in Qt5 apps, that would be a much better platform, as Qt already has the transparency layer (pun not intended). Then your Qt5 app will work (eventually) on iOS, Android, WP8, Win8, as well as whatever desktop OS you have. [Note: I say "eventually" because specific platform support is still evolving for WP8/W8, iOS, and Android each platform at its own pace. The transfer to Digia has renewed interest in porting Qt to those newer modern mobile platforms.]

Waiting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450265)

I'm waiting for the Tizen haha


Destroy Android please Samsung (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450283)

Samsung should just make a proprietary fork of Android like Amazon did and give Google the middle finger. They have the market lead and the butthurt from the freetard crowd would be epic.

Re:Destroy Android please Samsung (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450355)

Samsung recently hired the Cyanogenmod guy.

Anybody here excited? (4, Interesting)

horza (87255) | about a year ago | (#42450287)

Going to tizen.org web site, they seem pretty determined to hide information from potential developers. It's not until you get down to the tutorials that they admit supposed "apps" are just html and javascript pages. I can't see a future for a platform with no apps apart from toy ones. I guess it's aimed at dumb-phones given away free by the carriers, but a phone with no apps is going to be a hard sell.


Re:Anybody here excited? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450483)

> no apps apart from toy ones

Why would you only be able to create "toy apps"? Why wouldn't you be able to create the exact same apps in JavaScript as you are in java or objective-c? All the languages are Turing complete and presumably you will have the same device access through the platform framework.

Re:Anybody here excited? (2)

Sloppy (14984) | about a year ago | (#42450653)

All the languages are Turing complete

That's why I wrote my raytracer in awk.

Re:Anybody here excited? (1)

slim (1652) | about a year ago | (#42450847)

Sure, OK, Turing Complete probably isn't sufficient. But Turing complete, fast, and backed up with a full-featured system library is sufficient.

A good Javascript implementation, with HTML5 for display, user input and storage, is good enough for serious apps, not just toys.

If you don't like writing Javascript, use one of the many languages that compile to Javascript. If you don't like the DOM, abstract it into an API you do like.

Re:Anybody here excited? (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | about a year ago | (#42450943)

I can't see a future for a platform with no apps apart from toy ones.

You should get out more often. 90% of time I see people playing some simple games on their smartphones. Remaining 10% mostly browsing, reading news.

I guess it's aimed at dumb-phones [...]

You can't imagine how hard right now it is to come by a decent dumb/feature-phone.

[...] given away free by the carriers, but a phone with no apps is going to be a hard sell.

Not many people need the apps. A phone which has weather widget and decent browser covers heck a lot of consumers.

If Sammy/Docomo also would manage to improve battery life (e.g. Samsung Wave with Bada OS can go 2-4 days on single charge) I personally would gladly trade the choice of apps for the dumbphone.

Re:Anybody here excited? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42451055)

I don't know what a released device will be like, but underneath it runs a fairly flavour of linux, so most linux and X11 based apps work quite happily.

TBH I think a more suitable market for tizen is in other embedded devices such as smart TVs or automotive devices

Re:Anybody here excited? (1)

bimozx (2689433) | about a year ago | (#42451781)

It can't be helped that HTML and JS apps on Mobile Phones haven't been taken seriously, but to be fair they are usually treated as a second citizen there. HTML and JS app is actually a pretty good platform to develop with, it's pretty simple and robust, in my experience. And the growth of development techniques and tools used in web development can also propagate to the development of mobile apps that uses the same technology as a platform.

Also some project have proved that it is feasible to create an experience on par with the native apps. One of them is Sencha's fastbook [html5isready.com], and that app shows that, even if it is HTML and JS app, it can provide similar experience to native, IF it is done right. I think it's a pretty sane decision also, since in the end most Mobile Apps have similar utility as their website counterpart if not completely the same. Let's not forget that the quality of app in any platform is usually correlated with the interest in the platform rather than the limitation the platform itself.

Lastly, I don't think a lot of people is eager to invest in an another language to develop in a NEW platform that enters this late in the game especially with no Big name to back them up. By using HTML and JS, people that have already dabble in it for a living can at least tread the water and maybe make an app or two for fun. If the platform tanks they can at least salvage a website out of it. Guess what I'm trying to say is, HTML and JS is the most promising option at hand, even if it doesn't seem all that promising.

Samsung/Microsoft joint venture (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42450307)

Samsung is working with Microsoft in search software for its phones. They're going to call it:

<puts on sunglasses>

Bada Bing!

Re:Samsung/Microsoft joint venture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42451363)

don 2 (dn)
tr.v. donned, donning, dons
1. To put on (clothing).
2. To assume or take on: donned the air of the injured party.

snappier than "puts on" ;-)

Re:Samsung/Microsoft joint venture (1)

Lisias (447563) | about a year ago | (#42456857)

Samsung is working with Microsoft in search software for its phones. They're going to call it:

<puts on sunglasses>

Bada Bing!

Beakman? It's you? :-)

Meamo + Moblin = Meego - Nokia + Samsung = Tizen (2)

ArhcAngel (247594) | about a year ago | (#42450361)

In case anyone was wondering where Tizen came from.

Meamo (Nokia) + Moblin (Intel) = Meego [meego.com] - Nokia + Samsung = Tizen [theverge.com]

Re:Meamo + Moblin = Meego - Nokia + Samsung = Tize (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year ago | (#42450699)

Tizen has nothing in common with Maemo or MeeGo. Its Samsung's internal Linux platform, LiMo, and some things from Intel and a lot hidden behind closed doors.

Re:Meamo + Moblin = Meego - Nokia + Samsung = Tize (4, Informative)

ArhcAngel (247594) | about a year ago | (#42452061)

I suspect you were tl;dr the links I supplied. The Meego web site has a post from Imad Sousou of Intel's Open Source technology center handing the torch off from Meego to Tizen. [tizen.org]

Tizen has nothing in common with Maemo or MeeGo.

"There has been a lot of great work done in the Meego project, and we are pleased to see that code carried over to Tizen." - Imad Sousa (Meego’s technical steering group co-leader)

Its Samsung's internal Linux platform

If by internal you mean it is maintained by the Linux Foundation [linuxfoundation.org] then OK.

Re:Meamo + Moblin = Meego - Nokia + Samsung = Tize (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42484997)

fuck you slashdot captch you can suck a mother fucking dick.

need maemo replacement (1)

davydagger (2566757) | about a year ago | (#42451665)

the market is up for grabs in a GNU/Linux cell phone

1. I don't think anyone new is ever going to catch apple/android

2. there is a small niche(self included) market segment, that wants a GNU/Linux phone. These people bought the nokia n900. These are probably the most vicious and loyal fanbois there are, and we've been without a standard phone bearer for 3 years already. There is no reason you won't sell 1 million devices to the same people every development cycle.

3. Built it we will come. There is no need for advertisement, as soon as one nerd finds out about it, it will be here, on /. and all over the tech world.

4. Run GNU/Liunx, unlocked bootloader, unlocked carrier, and leave all firmware needed for hardware free to re-distribute, at the least.

5. hildon is open source, so is most of the software you need. most of the design work is done already. All the chipsets, CPUs, GPUS, are all commercially available.

6. Android runs the linux kernel, and all the patches have been mainlined, there is no reason you cannot offer an android API extraction layer to run android apps, given you will most likely use the same sort of hardware.

We will all line up to buy it, and you'll sell 1 million phones everytime you make a new one.

If you think this all sounds ridicolous, you'll still sell more phones if you ran windows. If you think I'm bullshiting you, ask nokia, who's gotta be kicking themselves in the ass for handing you this market segment.
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