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DRONENET: An Internet of Drones

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the robot-bring-me-a-sammich dept.

Transportation 108

In a series of posts on his blog, military theorist John Robb outlines what he thinks will be the next big thing — "as big as the internet," as he puts it. It's DRONENET: an internet of drones to be used as an automated delivery service. The drones themselves would require no futuristic technology. Modern quadrotor drones are available today for a few hundred dollars, and drone usage would be shared across an open, decentralized network. Robb estimates the cost for a typical delivery at about $0.25 every 10 miles, and points out that the drones would fit well alongside many ubiquitous technologies; the drone network shares obvious parallels with the internet, the drones would use GPS already-common GPS navigation, and the industry would mesh well with the open source hardware/software community. Finally, Robb talks about the standards required for building the DRONENET: "Simple rules for drone weight, dimensions, service ceiling, and speed. Simple rules for battery swap and recharging (from battery type, dimension, etc.). Simple rules for package containers. Simple rules for the dimensions and capabilities of landing pads. ... Decentralized database and transaction system for coordinating the network. Rules for announcing a landing pad (information from GPS location and services provided) to the network. Rules for announcing a drone to the network (from altitude to speed to direction to destination). Cargo announcement to the network, weight, and routing (think: DNS routing). A simple system for allocating costs and benefits (a commercial overlay). This commercial system should handle everything from the costs of recharging a drone and/or swapping a battery to drone use."

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108 comments

Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (4, Interesting)

Baldrson (78598) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488597)

IPv6 wireless mesh networking between the drones for 3 reasons:

1) Drones keeping each other informed of their vectors for distributed traffic control.

2) Additional revenue for Internet service provision to wide area near-lines-of-sight of sight to the drones current aloft. This has the added benefit of actually bootstrapping Paul Baran's original intention of packet-switching [rand.org] : route around the damage which, in this case, is damage to the Internet now potentiated by increasing centralization of internet infrastructure.

3) IPv6 offers the potential to finally put into place what I called "the primary discipline of network architecture" when I was designing Knight-Ridder/AT&T's multi-city videotex [wikipedia.org] architecture back in the early 80s: "The terminal is merely the host computer nearest the customer." Getting rid of the client-server paradigm is key to recapturing the internet's potential.

Get in touch with David P. Reed regarding the strategic approach to take for wireless mesh networking in this new regime [mit.edu] .

"I'd strongly encourage people today to ignore the IETF, and get focused on mobile, unlicensed wireless, highly reconfigurable and pervasive networking. Pursue overlays and co-existence, and create the next bigger "Internet" - the universal glue for networking things together. "

-- David P. Reed

Open Cobalt's synchronization architecture [opencobalt.org] is a good option for an open peer-to-peer network synchronization standard currently in operation. But, as I said about the wireless mesh standard, contact David P. Reed, as this synchronization standard is based on Reed's PhD thesis [mit.edu] , which, with minor modifications, I adopted for videotex architecture clear back in 1982 and it still has no RFC.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488635)

A few problems:
1. How can governments tax this? (if they can't, they won't approve it.)
2. How can you avoid trees, power lines, wind gusts that would take down the drones, etc.?
3. How can you avoid people putting explosives or hazardous wastes on the damn things?
4. Who wants drones flying over their houses all the time?
On the other hand:
1. It has potential to overcome slow postal deliveries.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488805)

On the other hand:
1. It has potential to overcome slow postal deliveries.

There's nothing slow about my NetFlix DVD mail. I put a DVD in the mail in the afternoon and NetFlix sends me an email the next morning telling me that they received it. I presume the reverse is equally fast, but I can't prove it.

More than likely though, once the post office goes bankrupt, which seems like it has to do sooner or later given the deficits it's been running, we'll need something to replace it.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

chronokitsune3233 (2170390) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488859)

That's what FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. are all for. They're around to make a killer amount of money after USPS goes under.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488933)

DHL stopped delivering in the US several years ago.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489357)

DHL stopped delivering in the US several years ago.

Source? My new bicycle came to my house (Buffalo, NY suburbs) a few weeks ago and the shipping label on the carton says, "DHL Global".

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489475)

DHL stopped delivering in the US several years ago.

Source? My new bicycle came to my house (Buffalo, NY suburbs) a few weeks ago and the shipping label on the carton says, "DHL Global".

Let me google that for you:

http://www.economist.com/node/12607051
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/10/news/companies/dhl/index.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-11-10/dhl-to-halt-express-deliveries-in-the-u-dot-s-dot-businessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice
etc.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42490181)

...Let me google that for you: http://www.economist.com/node/12607051 [economist.com] ...

Well, I'm looking at the "Non Negotiable Bill of Lading" (small print at bottom of form) and at the top it says DHL Global Forwarding. The shipper is my bike dealer in Arizona and I'm in Buffalo NY. Date shipped is 12/10/12 (US date style, December 10, 2012). I signed for the carton on 12/21/2012. Special Instructions are "Residential Delivery".

As someone wise once said, you can't always believe what you read in the papers. Or maybe it's this one, "The reports of my death are slightly exaggerated"?

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42494619)

If it's on the internet then it must be true.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

blackraven14250 (902843) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489603)

There reverse is not equally as fast. When you ship back to Netflix, they have the regional post office scan the DVDs to update inventory. While the DVD is being shipped back, the new one is already sent to you, since they know the old on is already en route to them. So, while it might take 2-3 days to actually get back, they're parallelizing the shipping to your location.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (4, Interesting)

Wingman 5 (551897) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488843)

1. The same way they tax cars, require them to be registered with a yearly registration fee.

2. Don't let anything fly anywhere, set up traffic corridors that are not near trees, power lines, and give enough space for a drone to correct itself after it gets hit by a strong wind gust.

3. Again the same way you do it with cars. You make rules and laws and if people break them there is a penalty.

4. The similar people who don't care if they live near a busy noisy street. And these will be electric, the nosiest part of any moving device is the engine, being electric instead of gas, there will be minimal noise. For one crashing in to your house, yes it could happen, but the safety level would need to get pretty high if people started to use these for widespread use. No one would ship with them if there was a 1 in 10 chance you would loose what you where delivering. For the ones that do crash the government can require liability insurance to be on them, just like cars.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489149)

1. Air worthiness license per drone vehicle
2. Fly at a safe altitude / have weather drones that monitor air conditions - air gusts originate from somewhere, so have a hemisphere of weather drones could
      provide warnings.
3. Sealed frames
4. Many people don't want buses, car, lorries driving past their homes, let alone aircraft flying overhead.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42490417)

Not to mention the random kid with a sling shot or bb gun.

These things would have to avoid airports and remain well below 1200 feet AGL. They would become popular targets. Drug dealers would steal them and re-purpose them.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

Sabriel (134364) | about a year and a half ago | (#42492189)

Of course, there is the slight problem of stealing a drone without it and forty other drones uploading real-time GPS-stamped video of your actions for law enforcement.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42494633)

Yeah but the perp and the drone are long gone by the time the cops arrive.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

Megane (129182) | about a year and a half ago | (#42490481)

4a. Not rednecks with shotguns.

Finally (5, Funny)

leaen (987954) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488747)

If internet goes down then we can use RFC 1149.

Re:Finally (1)

slick7 (1703596) | about a year and a half ago | (#42496891)

If internet goes down then we can use RFC 1149.

The dronenet will never go down, because the banksters made it self-sustaining. It's called the politician.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

Baldrson (78598) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488959)

Also, Aviation Week reports [aviationweek.com] that:

Karlsruhe-based E-volo says the Ministry has commissioned a two- to three-year trial program to create a new category of ultralight aviation to cover the two-seat VC200 rotorcraft now in development. In Europe, ultralights are aircraft weighing less than 450kg and carrying up to two people.

In place of a conventional helicopter rotor, E-volo's Volocopter has a fixed branch-like structure on which is mounted an array of battery-powered, electrically driven, individually controlled, multiply redundant mini-rotors.

Under the trial program, the German Ultralight Aircraft Association, Sport Aircraft Association and Federal Aviation Office will work with E-volo to create a manufacturing specification, legal regulations and training requirements for the new "Volocopter" ultralight rotorcraft category.

What this means is that the payload capacity of Dronet is potentially large enough to provide personal transportation given a standardized passenger "shipping container".

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

bbelt16ag (744938) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489131)

well, i think bigger devices could haul larger products, but these smaller ones could be used to send data in large open areas, with perhaps a power station near by at somebodies house, they could be licensed to the home owner and they could be reimbused with a bit extra on the power usage, you could even put some solar panel and a wind farm near by. As far as autonomous delivery though fedex and UPS might be interested in that, i am sure they are paying alot for those big planes to travel around the world, and all those trucks moving stuff.

Re:Open IPv6 Mesh With Distributed Atomic Actions (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42494905)

This is potentially a great thing to do with drones, if you leave the physical goods delivery network idea out of it. Long-flying drones, probably buoyant and/or winged (why not an inflatable plane full of hydrogen and made of something flame retardant, bellied with a battery and topped with solar film?) can finally solve the "last mile" problem until we come up with something cleverer.

not feasible (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488613)

current batteries only allow for ~~ 15 minute flights on multirotors, and this diminishes significantly as you add weight. You may be able to deliver small bags of weed or something a mile or two away

Re:not feasible (1)

Wingman 5 (551897) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488761)

Everything does not need to be a Heli- variant. If standards are in place you could go with a much more efficient normal flight and solve the landing via ILS [wikipedia.org] or a VTOL [wikipedia.org] system on the drones.

Re:not feasible (1)

FireFury03 (653718) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488985)

Everything does not need to be a Heli- variant. If standards are in place you could go with a much more efficient normal flight and solve the landing via ILS [wikipedia.org] or a VTOL [wikipedia.org] system on the drones.

How about fixed wing craft for long distance, and mid-air transfer of the cargo onto a quadrocopter (or similar) operating near the recipient for the takeoff/landing?

Re:not feasible (5, Funny)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488763)

Weed is too cheap. It would have to be coke (or HP printer ink) to make it economical.

Re:not feasible (3, Funny)

nospam007 (722110) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488911)

Would you like a few iPhones and iPads for cheap?

They fell from a drone.

Re:not feasible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489659)

How about Pizza delivery? Another marginalized personal service that needs to be further marginalized.

Re:not feasible (1)

Megane (129182) | about a year and a half ago | (#42490503)

"Cletus!"
"Wut is it, Brandine?"
"I'm-a hungry now!"
"All right, I'll go get me mah shotgun and look for one o' dem dere pizza birds flying by."

Re:not feasible (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488783)

current batteries only allow for ~~ 15 minute flights on multirotors, and this diminishes significantly as you add weight. You may be able to deliver small bags of weed or something a mile or two away

Great for drug dealers! Drone comes with money, replace money with drugs, and off it goes!

If the cops get it, well, who are they going to bust?

Terrorists will use this too for bombs and to crash these into the engine intakes of jet liners.

Then I see child pornographers using this technology to spy on little kids.

And of course, people will use this to spy on politicians.

I think I've outlined the major arguments that will cause these things to be so regulated that the costs will be prohibitive - in the US.

Re:not feasible (1)

newcastlejon (1483695) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488857)

Great for drug dealers! Drone comes with money, replace money with drugs, and off it goes!

If only it were so easy...

If the cops get it, well, who are they going to bust?

I'm guessing they'd start with the house that looks/sounds like a robotic beehive.

Re:not feasible (1)

mikael (484) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489187)

Great for drug dealers! Drone comes with money, replace money with drugs, and off it goes!

If only it were so easy...

Ideally, you'd want something capable of travelling over rough terrain, has more than three legs for stability, has a homing instinct, can scavenge for food, and can travel in groups for safety. Like a donkey train ...

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/weird-wide-web/drug-mules-caught-transporting-marijuana-donkey-lesotho-south-africa [globalpost.com]

The only disadvantage is that at some point, a human has to collect the cargo.

Re:not feasible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489397)

... I think I've outlined the major arguments that will cause these things to be so regulated that the costs will be prohibitive - in the US.

One more, how the heck will a drone open my mailbox to deliver the mail/package? Note, large "rural" style mailbox at the end of the driveway, slightly rusty. It takes a good yank to get the door open.

Re:not feasible (1)

pepty (1976012) | about a year and a half ago | (#42490855)

how the heck will a drone open my mailbox to deliver the mail/package? Note, large "rural" style mailbox at the end of the driveway, slightly rusty. It takes a good yank to get the door open.

I think the system would work best if the delivery location is the location of your smartphone. Let the phone and the drone talk amongst themselves, then drone drops the package in your hands.

Re:not feasible (2)

dr2chase (653338) | about a year and a half ago | (#42492573)

"Here's that car battery you ordered. Catch!"

Re:not feasible (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489865)

I think I've outlined the major arguments that will cause these things to be so regulated that the costs will be prohibitive - in the US.

And of course drug dealers, terrorists, and child pornographers will be careful to only use government-approved, registered drones.

Re:not feasible (1)

poity (465672) | about a year and a half ago | (#42490925)

Shoot down drone. Free money/drugs!

Re:not feasible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488995)

why use batteries, use the obvious high density solution, combustible fuel. perfect app for biofuel....

Oh Boy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488651)

The hackers are already wringing their hands in anticipation.

Kozmo can make a comeback! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488655)

Local delivery for packs of gum! Yeah!

ddos (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488685)

Well I'm not criticizing it.

Just when we use the Internet analogue, imagine a DDOS with drones :)

Wouldn't a better name be Skynet? (1)

hawks5999 (588198) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488717)

The drones fly in the sky and when they decide to kill us all, we'll at least be expecting it.

Re:Wouldn't a better name be Skynet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488935)

It'll take a long while before the drones become self-aware, so until then we know that it's Obummer who is giving the nod to kill Americans with drone strikes. Kill list, you know.

Why this won't work (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488721)

1) incompatibility with existing aviation
2) too easy to steal a drone for all kinds of purposes
3) the terrorist implications are awesome
4) too many legal implications for accidents which are extremely

Not likely the way he described (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488743)

However, Fedex and UPS may be good candidates for using autonomous aircraft.

air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Paris (4, Insightful)

fantomas (94850) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488749)

Good luck on persuading the authorities in New York, London, Paris etc that you want to fill the urban airspace with drones. How will you manage 'collision detection' in its very real and physical form if this becomes popular and there are large numbers flying around? How will they talk to other air traffic (e.g. police / ambulance helicopters)? Will they be able to re-route if emergency services wish to land rapidly? How about environmental lovers concerned about the effect they'll have on local birdlife?

I guess it is manageable but a> you'll need some fine control systems to be built b> you'll have to persuade the public that lots of little buzzing machines are a good thing and not annoying and c>you're insured against the occasional fail (if you have "millions" operating, I expect some will fall out of the sky, 5kg dropping from 100m in the air onto a city crowd?)

Re:air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Par (4, Insightful)

Gorobei (127755) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489175)

The bigger problem is that NYC, LDN, Paris, etc, don't need this at all: we already have last mile delivery infrastructure...

Right now, 150 restaurants will deliver food directly to me. Same for local liquor stores, supermarkets, pharmacies, etc. I'm told illegal drugs work the same way. For point-to-point one-offs, messenger services fill the need. Same for large items via van service. Hell, I can even ship my kids to playdates as needed via town car.

Sheesh, I've been in the middle of a public park and ordered 10 pizzas for a birthday party. 30 minutes later, a bike delivery guys shows up with them.

Re:air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Par (1)

Gorobei (127755) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489447)

Oh, and last major item delivered to my home was a christmas tree. Bought it from the Serbian guy four blocks away (discount for dec 24th, after Christmas he has to rebrand the trees as "new year trees" and sell them to Russians.) Delivered free to my living room in ten minutes by a homeless guy working as a tree hauler ($20 tip, he said he delivers 12 trees a day average, more power to him.)

Re:air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Par (1)

jon3k (691256) | about a year and a half ago | (#42495305)

Nice for densely populated places, but for more suburban places those services don't really exist, except for pizza delivery. And it's possible that those also aren't necessarily delivered in the most cost effective fashion. You could purchases several of the super high end multirotor copters [draganfly.com] for the salary of one bike messenger, let alone anyone using cars to deliver. And it could, in theory, deliver far more quickly than a person possibly could.

I think the big problem is weight. We need copters that can easily carry 20-50lbs. These days the upper end of the requirements is an expensive video DSLR with a heavy lens and articulating mount, maybe 5lbs?

Re:air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Par (1)

mikael (484) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489203)

Each drone would emit a radio signal . When other drones detect that signal they would slow down accordingly. The radio signal could encode location as GPS coordinate and altitude, as well as velocity.

who pays for the kit for emergency services? (1)

fantomas (94850) | about a year and a half ago | (#42497171)

Yes, I can see that working. But who's going to pay for the emergency services helicopters' radio equipment to make sure drones don't fly into them? (apologies if this is trivial, I don't know what equipment police/ambulance helicopters carry)

Re:air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Par (2)

Baldrson (78598) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489211)

From TFA: "Uncontrolled flight is possible over most of the US (except for cities, which are going to miss out on this, like so many other post-industrial innovations)."

Re:air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Par (1)

jon3k (691256) | about a year and a half ago | (#42495335)

Most of these are simple engineering challenges we've already solved with airplanes already (transponders, etc). I think mostly it would just be a matter of the FAA finally revising the rules for sUAS. Maybe any company operating these drones has to electronically send flight paths in real time to the local air traffic controller? There are also ways to make sUAS that are safe for flying around birds and people [youtube.com] .

Re:air traffic control? good luck in NYC, Lon, Par (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42496299)

Who's going to accept the liability? There roughly a billion dollars of liability for each aircraft. People have even been sued just for advertising they're rich by having a ($20k) airplane. The FAA has been dragging their feet for 5 years on this and have no motivation to createmrules. Given the percentage of congress which is full of lawyers, I don't blame them. The Bly way we'll have sense and avoid is trough the DoD using Title 10 (fuck you, we have guns) authority.

Nice but why fly? (1)

PiMuNu (865592) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488779)

The ability to have autonomous vehicles is immensely powerful. Flying drones is stupid and can be dismissed out of hand - but the technology to do this with the road network is already here.

Re:Nice but why fly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489117)

And starting to become legal, while "drones" get even tighter and tighter regulation.

hmmmm (1)

wbr1 (2538558) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488795)

Let me hack the network then net/otherwise intercept this drone delivering a 500 galaxy S iiiii.

Proper Editing? (2)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488815)

Saw this gem in a run on sentence:

the drones would use GPS already-common GPS navigation

What is "GPS already-common GPS" exactly?

Re:Proper Editing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489703)

Oh, that is known as "Slashdot editoring", and you will find it in every summary.

Re:Proper Editing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42494659)

Except GPS (and Google maps) say my house is number 12 and the location I'm actually at is across the street in 9.
I'll never get my pizza.

Needs to handle larger packages (1)

Animats (122034) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488841)

The system has to be able to handle delivery of more useful items than misplaced iPhones. Like groceries. A standard tote container (22"L (550mm) x 15"W (390mm) x 10"H (250mm)) is probably the minimum useful load size. There really isn't much demand for moving envelope-sized objects around any more. This is the same reason that pneumatic tube systems remain a niche product.

It's possible to scale up battery powered quadrotors [dvice.com] to that size. But they get a bit large for urban operation.

Re:Needs to handle larger packages (1)

Mandrel (765308) | about a year and a half ago | (#42490741)

An alternative to quadcopters would a mini drone version of the airship recently featured on Slashdot [slashdot.org] that uses compressors rather than ballast to adjust its buoyancy.

Ball drones (3, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488863)

Check out this ball drone [youtube.com] from Japan. This can be operated safely in tight spaces.

Re:Ball drones (1)

jackb_guppy (204733) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488943)

I like it!

Now add a few lasers and you you got the training drone of Star Wars.

Re:Ball drones (1)

evandrofisico (933918) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489177)

Last time I read about this ball drone the estimated battery life was around 15 minutes, making it useful for a very limited range. Also, this ball "drone" is still remote-controlled, putting it definitely outside of the drone category, although similar devices have been adapted to autonomous fly even by hobbyists [google.com] .

Unless someone can get a power source with better weight/stored energy ratio than the batteries usualy found at these devices, those drones will still be toys. Maybe a buoyant/quadcopter hybrid could overcome this, using far less energy to stay flying and depending on volume, a useful payload capacity.

Re:Ball drones (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42494891)

Maybe a buoyant/quadcopter hybrid could overcome this, using far less energy to stay flying and depending on volume, a useful payload capacity.

But then you have a significant problem with energy expenditure in high wind conditions, et cetera. It doesn't make unmanned dirigibles useless but it does restrict them to actually being fairly large, and only going to prepared locations in the boonies.

In short you would probably have to use a turbine for power generation and main thrust and VTOL is expensive in energy no matter what kind of engine you use, it's a bad idea.

It is an intresting idea and not new (3, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488869)

At least this idea isn't new in trying to use alternative means then road haulage to deliver packages. In The Hague the horse and cart was RE-introduced (we are not that backward here) to deliver packages in a shopping street because it looked nice. In Amsterdam packages can also be delivered by the canal to avoid the roads. These are old techs, re-introduced. But newer versions are in Utrecht were shops have their good delivered by large trucks to a central location from which they are then distributed to the actual shop by small electric carts pulling small wagons, this to avoid large trucks blocking the roads which are one way streets mostly (no way to pass a parked truck). The bike messenger is a feature of many a large city for a long time now.

A reverse idea is in place in some crowded areas were waste is sucked into the ground and away to be collected in a central area.

These ideas are all nice BUT they lack the flexibility that the motor car has brought to our world. I can send packages by truck that would kill a bike rider, that same truck can also carry a single envelope to its destination. The only reason to use alternatives that are never as flexible, are because trucks take up a LOT of space. But you also already need the roads anyway so it is only in the most crowded areas that alternatives spring up.

Now... what is it about inner cities that makes me worry about aerial delivery by small drones. Massive buildings of wildly varying heights which already make it an adventure to cycle or even walk, let alone fly an underpowered drone carrying god knows what. As a mailman one Christmas, I delivered bottles of mercury to a dentist. Dropping out of bag, it did no harm, dropping from 100 meters...

Please correct me if I am wrong, but ambulance helicopters do NOT land between two high-rises in NY do they? One cliff is already dangerous enough I would think. What makes you think that a far smaller device, flown by cheap electronics or an operator who connection might or might not work (again, inner cities are not known for their un-interrupted radio signals, for that matter, high-rises mess with GPS too).

This idea doesn't need new tech? I know of no drone tech that allows it to operate on its own in complex 3d environments. Military drones have an operator and fly in clear skies and land and take of in wide open areas. Search youtube for remote controlled airplanes and SEE the "state of the art" tech. Especially the landings. Whooo! I want THAT going on all around me. There is a reason these people operate on remote fields with rules like "NEVER FLY TOWARDS A PERSON" (often broken but only with other members of the pack).

It is a nice idea, small drones flying around carrying packages but it just isn't practical for a long time until AI's are a LOT better, this isn't just about landing a 747 by autopilot were the auto pilot doesn'thave to think but just follow the math rules programmed into it. An AI drone needs to fly around people, unknown obstructions, unpredictable weather and all that with a cargo shape/weight behavior that is unpredictable. Box with weights rolling around inside it, good luck stablizing that AND dealing with a sudden gust of wind.

Seriously, look at youtube and the art of drones, we are still in the steam powered car era. Someday maybe but not today and not this decade.

Re:It is an intresting idea and not new (1)

Sigg3.net (886486) | about a year and a half ago | (#42494511)

"I can send packages by truck that would kill a bike rider"

That is intriguing, at some point in time we would have both a reliable delivery system AND a biker-free traffic.. I, for one, welcome our biker-maiming overlords!

Might be useful as a Weather station (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488891)

I use weather spark, but it would be interesting to have weather "balloons" trolleying around dynamically displaying the location of any tornado warnings.

Re:Might be useful as a Weather station (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42494685)

Canon with smart rounds. Just point it to the general direction and it lands on your lawn.

Done That Already (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42488925)

MatterNet.us is a Silicon Valley startup who's founder Andreas Raptopoulos is one of NPR's All Tech Considered's "5 Nerds To Watch In 2013".

I'll have a new project now (1)

SternisheFan (2529412) | about a year and a half ago | (#42488927)

I've already specced out the plans for my "retrievable drone capture net", almost ready to patent it. It's going to be a profitable year!

Cost is astronomical: $500 / delivery cross countr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489015)

I wouldn't even pay this for weed. I'd put money that it is also slower than USPS First Class / Priority mail. That is 2-3 days. Express mail is also probably cheaper.

Now maybe this is the cost for a mega flying truck load worth of goods rather than the lite load that I'm thinking. However California to New Jersey isn't an unreasonable distance. This is fairly typical. Where this could possibly work is beyond me.

heli-tacos this is about 6 months old (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489041)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/tacocopter-startup-delivers-tacos-by-unmanned-drone-helicopter_n_1375842.html

What if people try to shoot these drones down? (1)

fufufang (2603203) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489063)

What if people get annoyed by the drones flying over their house, and shoot them down with catapult? Also flying over people's house could cause some privacy concern... I could mount some cameras on my drone, and fly over Girl Next Door (TM)'s house when she's having a shower.

Noise, Crashes, Insurance... (2)

bluescrn (2120492) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489205)

No, it ain't going to happen.

Fleets of small multicopters overhead would get annoyingly noisy, and they'll crash fairly frequently - quadcopters fall out of the sky if any component fails (motor/prop/speed controller/flight controller/battery). And in urban areas, a crash has a fairly high chance of either hitting somebody directly, or causing an accident indirectly by distracting a driver.

Electric multicopters also have very limited range (Most high-end hobbyist setups for aerial photography max out at around 15min flight time) and lifting capability. The only deliveries that would be worth attempting with drones would be illegal ones - getting drugs or guns across borders, for example...

Re:Noise, Crashes, Insurance... (1)

Sigg3.net (886486) | about a year and a half ago | (#42494523)

The real question is how this is an improvement over avian carriers, once a cornerstone of long distance communication.

Ridiculous (2)

scottbomb (1290580) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489225)

This whole discussion is about as ridiculous as the flying cars we were supposed to have 20 years ago.

Re:Ridiculous (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42492207)

"This whole discussion is about as ridiculous as the flying cars we were supposed to have 20 years ago."

Yep. But it was fun spending a few minutes thinking of the numerous ways I'd be fucking with these things. C'mon, you all did the exact same thing--immediately went into defensive mode. Personally, the most entertaining method I thought of would be to collect live pigeons (they're free if you know where to look, like almost fucking anywhere) and release them en masse during a flyover--let's see how well that collision avoidance shit works.

Why Stop at Just Delivery? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489247)

Law enforcement could share the drones too! Just add infrared cameras, sound recording device, and you've got a perfect tool!

Next step will be equipping them with Hellfire missiles. We're just not ready for that yet.

Not yet practical, not for a long time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489251)

For a few hundred dollars you'll get a quadcopter with a payload of a few hundred grams (maybe a kg+, but with drastically reduced flight time), a flight time of 10-20 minutes depending on battery and type of drone, GPS is not 100% reliable particularly in an environment with plenty of reflective vertical surfaces like buildings (multi-path signal problems), and charging high-performance batteries of the right type is non-trivial because they are prone to overheat and burn -- lithium fires are not fun and the charging has to be supervised and within a special fire-retardant bag. Avoiding narrow obstacles like power lines would be a challenge. Avoiding quickly-moving aerial objects such as other drones and birds would be even more challenging. And 10 mile range? Not a fricking chance. Not with any decent degree of reliability given variable weather conditions, and not for a drone costing "a few hundred dollars". It would have to be BIG to be all-weather. Many thousands of dollars.

None of that addresses the legal liability issues ("Your drone landed its peanut butter delivery in my swimming pool full of chocolate!" "You got chocolate in my peanut butter and on my drone!"). And operating autonomous drones outside line-of-sight and without the ability of manual intervention is not currently legal.

File this in the "give it another 10-20 years, then we'll see" category. Current technology might make it practical to reliably deliver USB flash keys between nearby (few hundred metres) buildings on a clear day without high winds. That's about it.

yeah, ok, this is silly (1)

convolvatron (176505) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489281)

but think about the utility of having a container standard for smaller objects that would be

    - nestable
    - stackable
    - designed to be manipulated/carried by robots
    - has a self-describing tag or at minimum a reference in a standard form to an internet object

that you could use interoperably in a variety of storage/transport applications

Re:yeah, ok, this is silly (1)

Areyoukiddingme (1289470) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489959)

Isn't that why Amazon bought Kiva Systems? Such a thing more or less exists already, in automated warehouses. Probably nobody has managed to become standard, since such systems aren't exactly common, but they do exist.

I don't think so (1)

bunratty (545641) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489581)

Autonomous unmanned flying vehicles operating outdoors with minimal supervision? I think we'll see secure Internet voting before we see that. I think cars that are able to drive themselves will happen first, too. Just for starters, what happens when the wind speed exceeds the speed the vehicle can achieve? It would have to land safely... and then what? Not to mention avoiding power lines, staying out of restricted airspace, making the system secure, batteries dying at inopportune times, communications issues, liability for damage caused, noise complaints, mechanical issues, ...

I like how everybody on /. thinks they are smarter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42489745)

Than theorist John Robb. I am certain he is right his time table is just a bit off. We are slow to accept anything we always have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the money.

Not a new idea (1)

Hentes (2461350) | about a year and a half ago | (#42489889)

I'm pretty sure some guy have already failed to start a drone delivery business.

Will work if efficient (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42490647)

A mesh network of transport vehicles would be a very efficient way of moving items of varying sizes.

The courier system could be augmented by air and water based drones. Small packages make up a significant amount of the total and the last mile problem applies here too.

A potential solution is bulk heavy transport to hubs as happens now and then drones for the final hop rather than using road. Of course swapping loads between drones would also be useful.
Properly implemented this could use less fuel and be more flexible than current courier services.
The problem of loss of cargo would be managed through better redundency design in the drone hardware/software. Noise and danger to people underneath could be managed by defining corridors into the drone map, for instance traveling above a rail line should be relatively safe as should be travelling on water.

Part of a wider open delivery service (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42491575)

Some comments highlight legitimate criticisms to this ideas adoption everywhere, in particular in cities.

However combined with other distribution methods, this could become part of a wider open delivery system where an item could use various means of transportation to be ultimately delivered to its destination.

I also like the idea of having the drones double as mesh Internet providers.

Re:Part of a wider open delivery service (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year and a half ago | (#42491943)

It's useless in cities, yes. The only niche I can imagine this being used in would be delivery to very remote, rural locations where the infrastructure is poor, and even then it's only good for small items. A small niche.

Packet collisions takes a whole new meaning... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42491777)

How are the drones going to not run into each other ? How are drones from the "older" generation: the ones not on DRONES.net, going to avoid collisions with drones that aren't on the network and that aren't able to detect other drones?

The day a delivery packet fells on a baby is the day that technology is outlawed nation-wide or continent-wide...

DoS vulnerability. (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year and a half ago | (#42491901)

I'm sure teenagers will have a great time downing these things. Stone plus string makes a rotor-tangler. Just use atlatl or traditional cartoon dennis-the-menace slingshot. With luck, you get someone's delivery. At the very least you get a mangled drone to strip for ebayables.

im not fing buying into your lies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42492161)

this is just to help fund hte usa's latest military wack a mole drone bullshit.
waste a my money cash , time , effort and most importantly some ones life.

go try and make the world a better safer place first before you come back spouting you shit...omg and they think OH JOY can i BUY ONE and help fund world destruction
LOL
seriously go away get fucked and stop war mongering by another name.

Piratebay did it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42492907)

https://torrentfreak.com/worlds-first-flying-file-sharing-drones-in-action-120320/

Take out the open and decentralized parts (1)

proca (2678743) | about a year and a half ago | (#42493445)

and the idea is genius. This could never happen without some company pioneering the idea in the private industry. Even if you had the drones flying over major highways, people would get freaked out at flying packages without some kind of massive marketing campaign.

Few Countries (1)

epSos-de (2741969) | about a year and a half ago | (#42494047)

Unfortunately there are only a few countries where the drones of today may be economical.

Look at Ecuador for example, they have slow infrastructure and insane mountains everywhere. Drones would connect this relatively small country very well. They have small landing fields everywhere and possible delivery needs of all sorts.

How about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42494543)

Reading the article the first thing that comes to mind is: Packet loss and bandwidth.
I think we will see the same problems as we have on the internet where some deliveries will just take forever or will never happen at all.
How about the reliability (a.k.a. packet loss). What happens if a drone malfunctions? What happens if the product / item that is transported gets lost?
For such a delivery service where I cannot simply resend the item (like I can do with most information on the internet) I would want some level of guaranteed delivery.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but to make this work we/he needs to put together a set of rules/policies/design features to make it work reliable and with a (near) 100% failsafe mechanism

Re:How about? (1)

sp4ni3l (1417195) | about a year and a half ago | (#42494559)

And I should login first before I hit post!

Criminals (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42496303)

This will bring on a new breed of criminals. Drone robbers. Bring a drone down as its taking off or landingt and steal the cargo. Or better yet - drone crashes due to mechanical failure. Contents are then stolen. Maybe even the drone itself is stolen.

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