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Anonymous Helps Find Evidence In Gang Rape Case

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the sometimes-you're-glad-people-are-dumb dept.

Crime 436

jfruh writes "Evidence of a gang rape committed by members of an Ohio high school football team, including video, was, in the way of digital native teenagers today, put online on various social media sites — and was quickly taken down as students began realizing the magnitude of the situation. The hactivist group Anonymous has been able to find archived and cached versions of the damning content, which may help prosecutors make their case." (The original story from December at the New York Times adds more detail.)

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Anonymous has become Batman. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519121)

No boundaries, no jurisdictions... just results.

All of the power of the harnessed internet with the face of the silent auction bidder.

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (4, Insightful)

kilodelta (843627) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519229)

I know. I love what Anonymous is doing. It's the Justice League of the net.

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (3, Funny)

Applekid (993327) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519311)

So, who are the Legion of Doom?

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (5, Insightful)

EdZ (755139) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519343)

Anonymous.

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519727)

High school football teams.

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (4, Funny)

tnk1 (899206) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519973)

High school football teams.

They're more like the Legion of Dumb.

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519825)

So, who are the Legion of Doom?

The MPAA/RIAA, obviously.

What does "gang" mean? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519987)

Um, I'm a little puzzled by the phrase "Gang Rape" in the headline here.

Reading through the two-page article in the New York Times, it sounds like a lot of drunken high-school idiots making assholes of themselves... but the only part that is actually "rape" seems to be one kid bragging that he "slipped a finger" inside the drunken girl. No question here: if he did that, and isn't just bragging to his buddies, that is indeed rape, since she was too drunk to consent (and, apparently, too drunk to even know). ... but if it's one person, it can't be "gang" rape.

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (5, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519487)

Yeah, and they would never frame anybody or tamper with evidence or anything, because their motives are always pure and above reproach. And unlike public officers, they're completely accountable!

Wait, who are these people again?

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (4, Insightful)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519865)

Yeah, and they would never frame anybody or tamper with evidence or anything, because their motives are always pure and above reproach. And unlike public officers, they're completely accountable!

Wait, who are these people again?

I can't tell if you're a smart guy trying to slam Anonymous or an idiot idolizing public officers. Either could be corrupt and/or unaccountable. Anonymous, however, has no vested interest either way in the lives, well-being and reputations of those in Steubenville Ohio - or their football team (which, if you read the NYT article, seems to be the main concern of many in the town)

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (4, Insightful)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519543)

Uh. They're chaotic-whatthefuck. They do what they want with no regard for impact, just attention.

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (5, Funny)

Zephyn (415698) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519587)

Its parent groups were killed off while it was watching, what else did you expect?

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (2)

epp_b (944299) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519605)

Ha, I thought precisely the same thing as I parsed the headline.

It's interesting to see how they've gone from hated, wanted outlaws to (at least in my mind) maybe-they're-not-so-bad...

Re:Anonymous has become Batman. (1, Offtopic)

crazyjj (2598719) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519907)

Being a nerd, I feel compelled to point out that Batman has TONS of boundaries. He won't use guns, won't kill--generally won't do anything to criminals aside from beating them up and maybe helping provide some evidence for police of their criminal activity (evidence that would almost certainly be worthless in a courtroom). It's one of the many reasons why he and other comic book heroes look great in a comic book or movie, but could never exist in real life.

Finally... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519129)

Anonymous does something truly useful and good!

Way to go guys!

Re:Finally... (3, Insightful)

ciderbrew (1860166) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519235)

I'm sure they'll say the evidence isn't admissible.

Re:Finally... (5, Interesting)

SirAstral (1349985) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519315)

Well, if the video can be forensically shown to be un-tampered with then it will be admissible. The nature of the evidence is taken into account as well as the methods of collection. In the case of video, anyone can find it under just about any circumstance because the actions depicted in the video is the evidence itself, which tends to avoid the issues associated with other types of evidence that can be planted which is why they have to follow a strict chain of custody and procedures.

Its a lot more difficult to plant video evidence of you raping someone as opposed to me walking in and claiming I found this illegal gun with the serial filled off in your home.

Re:Finally... (3, Insightful)

nametaken (610866) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519783)

Maybe, maybe not.

More important, cops will know who to question directly, same as if they'd had an anonymous tip. They can do that.

Apply pressure to the people involved, one will flip. Everyone goes down, one with a lesser charge.

Re:Finally... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42520009)

Well, the question is, was it actually rape? I understand that Slashdot wimps are biased against athletes out of jealousy of good looks, social skills, and success with women. I also understand that Slashdot wimps, living sheltered religious lives as kids, could not comprehend how any female would willingly enjoy sex with more than one man in a night and/or while in an intoxicated state - because it's always rape when alcohol* or multiple partners are involved even when all parties are willing? Is the pressure to prosecute coming from the girl herself more than it is a bunch of jealous neckbeards beating their dicks to the circulating video?

* I knew a woman whose fetish was to become helplessly drunk and put herself situations like the above. Additionally, 99% of women I know have rape fantasies and have experienced group sex at some point in their lives. Shocking, I know...ah, what it is to have a life.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:Finally... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519633)

You're kidding right? 99% of these people probably did it so they could watch it and fap, and wish they were there.

Tainted evidence (-1, Troll)

Kinthelt (96845) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519169)

In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

Re:Tainted evidence (1)

CurunirAran (2811035) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519213)

Actually, wouldn't the evidence just be rejected, instead of the case being dropped entirely?

Re:Tainted evidence (1)

Kinthelt (96845) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519329)

Yes, the evidence would be inadmissible in court. The correct procedure is to let the police gather it.

Re:Tainted evidence (3, Insightful)

CurunirAran (2811035) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519399)

But sadly most police forces are actually incapable of gathering such evidence,

Re:Tainted evidence (2)

John Napkintosh (140126) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519429)

So can anonymous tips be used in investigation? How can it be known whether the information in a tip was collected legally if the police didn't collect it? And therefore how can any information discovered from following such a tip be allowed?

Re:Tainted evidence (3, Interesting)

cusco (717999) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519709)

Anonymous tips can be used to get a search warrant, but considering the technological competence of the average cop that I've worked with they wouldn't bother following it up because they wouldn't have a clue how. They mostly become cops because they want to be heroes and/or because they like to push people around, not because they got bored being a computer guru. Most often anonymous tips are used in drug cases (because the cops can seize the property and sell it) and murder cases that have made the front page. In fairness though, there just isn't enough manpower available to follow even the most obvious trail unless the crime has made it to the high priority list for some reason, and police work doesn't pay enough to attract anyone competent at computer forensics.

Re:Tainted evidence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42520001)

And most engineers build secret entrances into the buildings so they can rob you in the night. They mainly do it so they can steal all your tinfoil hats that you are using to keep the aliens from reading your mind. I love your pessimism about the police. I'm sure they're not all good but you've been watching way to many cop movies on TV. I bet you're just sad they can openly carry their guns and you can't.

Re:Tainted evidence (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519959)

Evidence which is obtained through illegal means, such as hacking someone's email account, can be admitted as long as the person who gathered the evidence was not following the direction of law enforcement at the time they were committing the crime.

Re:Tainted evidence (1)

John Napkintosh (140126) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519219)

Is that how it works? If prosecutors aren't directly involved in the acquisition of the evidence (i.e.: soliciting anonymous to collect it), I thought it was admissible.

Re:Tainted evidence (5, Informative)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519237)

When this story came out, the prosecutor told the press that they already had collected the video in question. And still hadn't charged anybody.

In other words, there's an untainted trail of the evidence, and the reason that Anonymous got involved at all is that they're trying to shame the prosecutor's office into doing something.

Re:Tainted evidence (5, Informative)

0100010001010011 (652467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519625)

The prosecutor, you mean the mother of one of the kids on the football team?

Hurray small town america.

Re:Tainted evidence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519813)

The prosecutor, you mean the mother of one of the kids on the football team?

Hurray small town america.

So, will she prosecute her sons' sociopathic friends and allow her snowflake to be shunned and bullied?

Probably not.

Wrong (5, Informative)

daveschroeder (516195) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519871)

"Under Ohio law, the Ohio Attorney General is elected by the voters of the state and does not have the independent jurisdiction or ability to undertake investigations or prosecutions of juvenile crime. In this case, the Jefferson County Prosecuting Attorney who has such authority delegated her authority to the Attorney General's office to act as special prosecutor in the matter. The special prosecutors are not from the Steubenville area and graduated high school elsewhere."

Source [steubenvillefacts.com]

Huh? Not charged? (5, Informative)

daveschroeder (516195) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519921)

-August 11-12, 2012. The incident that began this case occurred.

-August 14, 2012. The incident was reported to Steubenville Police.

-August 16, 2012. Electronic devices of people who potentially had knowledge of the incident were taken, pursuant to search warrants.

-August 17, 2012. Steubenville Police request technical and investigative support from the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation "BCI" (a state agency supervised by the Ohio Attorney General). At the request of Steubenville Police, BCI expedited the evidence analysis. The analysis involved uncovering and reviewing tens of thousands of emails, texts, and photos from approximately a dozen electronic devices. The vast majority of such data was unrelated to the case. Investigators and forensic examiners never found any video of the alleged crime.

-August 22, 2012. Based on the investigation of the Steubenville Police, two juvenile males were arrested and charged. Their names are Trent Mays and Ma'lik Richmond. Suspects remained in juvenile detention until November 1, 2012 when the Visiting Judge (from outside the county) assigned to the case placed the suspects on home arrest.

-August 28, 2012. County Prosecuting Attorney delegates her authority to special prosecutors from the Ohio Attorney General's Office.

-August 30, 2012. Steubenville Police meet with the special prosecutors.

-The Juvenile Court trial in this case is scheduled for February 13, 2013. Circumstances surrounding media and public access to that trial are controlled by the Visiting Judge.

Source [squarespace.com]

Re:Tainted evidence (3, Interesting)

cusco (717999) | about a year and a half ago | (#42520035)

Yeah, good luck with that. I grew up in a cliquish cesspit like that, in northern Michigan in the '70s. The mayor's kid, a star of the high school football team, date-raped at least two girls (and probably more), and when they had the audacity to complain the entire community branded them as 'sluts' who were just jealous of his new girl. Police refused to investigate, and no lawyer in town would represent them. He boasted later about having gone back and sodomized one of the girls "to shut her up" and that she had enjoyed it so much that she agreed not to complain any more. He's probably someone important there now.

Re:Tainted evidence (1)

alen (225700) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519261)

not like the cops did any better

may not be enough for a criminal conviction, but the victim will probably get some justice now from civil suits

Re:Tainted evidence (3, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519565)

>In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

Um no. First of all, Police get evidence ALL THE TIME from secondhand sources. And they don't need a warrant for that either.

Second, I doubt anonymous was able to touch the item that filmed this video. It's still in the camera, even if "deleted". Police got a big heads up to its existence.

Courts most of the time don't go "OMG, IT AINT PURE!!!". They consider many factors and some even *gasp* come to reasonable conclusions.

Re:Tainted evidence (2)

PhxBlue (562201) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519651)

In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

Yes, because police and prosecutors have never relied on anonymous tips to generate leads in cases before.

Re:Tainted evidence (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519697)

Actually, it is admissible. IAaL, I am assuming you are not an attorney. Any objection the defense has will go the weight and not the admissibility. All you need is someone to testify to the video, and that the contents are a fair and accurate representation of the events that occurred. It is a matter of course to identify the videographer, people in the video, etc. If the defense wants to attack the authenticity of the video, or if it was edited, that is fine, but it will, as stated above, only serve to limit the weight the jury gives it and not the admissibility for consideration. Additionally, you don't need video evidence of a rape to prove rape. They arrested, convicted and punished people for 1000s of years without video evidence, and in most cases today there is none.

Re:Tainted evidence (1)

gpmanrpi (548447) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519719)

And I forgot to login :)

Re:Tainted evidence (1)

pla (258480) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519787)

In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

Sorry, no.

For the same reason we rant against calling copyright violations "stealing", the fact that anonymous found it first doesn't have any impact on the admissibility of the evidence. The police, now that someone has shown them how to do their jobs, can go to the same "untainted" sources and obtain the same evidence with a clean chain of custody. Happy day!

Sheriff says he'll arrest the hackers. (4, Interesting)

Andy Prough (2730467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519897)

The sheriff is going after KnightSec, says none of the "evidence" they provided was actual evidence of a crime: http://www.wtov9.com/news/news/sheriff-anonymous-hacker-im-coming-after-you/nTnNX/ [wtov9.com] .

From this article:

"Why put their names out there? Why put their addresses out there? With all the crackpots we have running around this country? With all of the sex offenders were have out there, plenty of them in Jefferson County, why put children’s names out there?” said Abdalla. "Mothers have taken their children out of school in fear of what may happen. This has gone too far. Enough is enough." Abdalla also claimed to know the identity of the person leading the online effort. "I'll deal with that at another time," said Abdalla. "I know where he lives. I know his name, his mother's name, his father's name, his brother's name."

And still no death penalty for rape (5, Interesting)

smooth wombat (796938) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519175)

I've been half-heartedly following this story once I heard the initial reports and what took place was almost, but not quite, as bad as the Indian student who was attacked, raped and beaten on a bus in India and later died.

This girl was, apparently, passed out drunk (she was 16) and while passed out, was raped by at least 2 members of the football. Her limp, violated, body was carried by her arms and legs, all while being recorded and while others stood by and did nothing.

Some people present tweeted what was taking place, some took pictures and one shining example of the human race was recorded for a length of time bragging about how much she was fucked (worse than in the movie Pulp Fiction according to him). No one called the police.

Further, when asked about how he would feel if his daughter was raped (he apparently at the ripe of a late teenager had a daughter) in 10 years, he pontificated that in ten years his daughter would be raped and dead. What a wonderful guy.

While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society. There isn't something new in not raping, murdering, shooting, tealing from, beating or otherwise doing something to someone, and people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519345)

I've always thought the death penalty is the easy way out. I'm not sure I'd want to be in prison for the rest of my life (which could amount to 60 or more years), given what I've heard some prisons can be like.

If you really want, we could still execute people, but let's stick 'em behind bars for a bit first.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (2)

ZorinLynx (31751) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519427)

I would honestly rather not pay to keep these scumbags alive.

These people chose their own fate. They chose to rape that girl. I have no sympathy because this isn't something that can happen by accident.

"Yeah my dick just came out and dragged me over to her."

No. Just end them. They are a serious threat to others and have shown it, willingly and without remorse.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1, Insightful)

cusco (717999) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519753)

There are two civilizations that I've heard of that were almost crime-free, medieval Japan and the Inca. In both the punishment for almost any crime was death, delivered quickly and with no possibility of appeal. The death penalty can work, just not the way we implement it.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519799)

You'll pay more to execute them, fyi.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

Comen (321331) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519935)

There are many reasons for a death penalty though, many times people that might have cared deeply for the deceased might not themselves outlive the person that did the crime, so this way they know that justice is served and the person is dead beyond the point of getting let out of prison. Also while many think only of themselves when they as jurors have to decide if a person lives of dies, I personally would take it as a slap to the face to a parent whose daughter was raped and killed if you told them you did not want to be responsible for putting someone who killed their daughter to death for instance. If I was the father of a girl that was raped and killed I would personally want to see them dead not in jail, just in case I was to die unexpectedly and not able to be sure they died in jail.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519455)

If you give death penalty for such cases then they would still rape the girl but then kill her to prevent her from testifying.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519857)

She hasn't testified yet, has she?

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519503)

I've been half-heartedly following this story once I heard the initial reports and what took place was almost, but not quite, as bad as the Indian student who was attacked, raped and beaten on a bus in India and later died.

This girl was, apparently, passed out drunk (she was 16) and while passed out, was raped by at least 2 members of the football. Her limp, violated, body was carried by her arms and legs, all while being recorded and while others stood by and did nothing.

Some people present tweeted what was taking place, some took pictures and one shining example of the human race was recorded for a length of time bragging about how much she was fucked (worse than in the movie Pulp Fiction according to him). No one called the police.

Further, when asked about how he would feel if his daughter was raped (he apparently at the ripe of a late teenager had a daughter) in 10 years, he pontificated that in ten years his daughter would be raped and dead. What a wonderful guy.

While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society. There isn't something new in not raping, murdering, shooting, tealing from, beating or otherwise doing something to someone, and people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

Yeah prove how excellent our society is by killing everyone who does something we don't like. Put them in prison by all means but killing them just proves that you are no better than them.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (3, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519561)

What's next, cutting off a thief's hands? Death penalty is not proportional to the crime. Yes, rape is bad, but it's not murder.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (5, Interesting)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519657)

What's next, cutting off a thief's hands? Death penalty is not proportional to the crime. Yes, rape is bad, but it's not murder.

Obviously, castration would be proportional to this. :-)

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519667)

I would argue that the death penalty *is* proportional to rape and murder.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519741)

It may not make you feel good, but some people are permanently broken and need to be removed permanently from society. If the accusations are true this person is broken and needs to be removed. A bullet to the head is a quick, simple, cheap solution to this problem. The only reason it's more expensive than life in prison is because assholes like you get your feelings hurt.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519757)

What's next, cutting off a thief's hands? Death penalty is not proportional to the crime. Yes, rape is bad, but it's not murder.

*sigh* You must be new to the internet. Hi. Welcome.

Because of this, you're clearly not aware of how this sort of argument works around these parts. So, since I'm not in the mood to put up with the inevitable bullshit that'll follow, I'll just escalate it to the end now and swear that the correct punishment for rape should be the complete genocide of the race responsible for it (and let's just toss in the rapist's religion, too, just in case (yes, including atheism and agnosticism, smartass; and if you don't shut your face, we'll drag you unitarians into things as well)), and then I'll feel outraged at you for thinking they deserve anything less.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519969)

Yeah, let's all rape them! FUCK YEAH!!!!

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (2)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519583)

This girl was, apparently, passed out drunk (she was 16) and while passed out, was raped by at least 2 members of the football. Her limp, violated, body was carried by her arms and legs, all while being recorded and while others stood by and did nothing.

Do you know how much porn is online from what counts as respectable pornographic film companies doing exactly that? I don't mean staged content; I mean a couple 40 year old guys slip into a college party and fuck a completely drunk, barely awake (if even) college girl.

Alcohol is considered fair play. I know too many girls who, when I bring up that I don't mess with girls once they've had more than a minor buzz, proceed to carefully explain to me that what they do when they're drunk as fuck is their business and their responsibility--up to and including fucking the hell out of everyone when they're too far gone to remember their own name (or stay conscious).

People just don't see this as wrong. I don't know why.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (5, Insightful)

KozmoStevnNaut (630146) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519801)

Do you know how much porn is online from what counts as respectable pornographic film companies doing exactly that? I don't mean staged content; I mean a couple 40 year old guys slip into a college party and fuck a completely drunk, barely awake (if even) college girl.

You probably believe those Dancing Bear videos where a male stripper shows up to a bachelorette party and ends up fucking the bride-to-be and all the bridesmaids aren't staged either.

No, those bangbus guys don't just pick up random girls on the street and fuck them in the back of a van for cash, either.

Repeat after me: all porn is fake. Yes, ALL of it.

Do you have any idea how much pressure is on porn producers to verify and document the legal age of every single performer in their productions? They will get shut down if records are missing or tampered with. All performers are required to submit to regular health and STD checks. Stringent records and contracts are kept.

Why take a gigantic risk and have your male talent (which is in severely limited supply) rape some random girl on camera, provided they would even agree to do so and not just hand you over to the cops immediately? They would basically be filming their own confession.

It's fake. All of it. Yes, even that video you just found that looks really authentic. Fake.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (5, Insightful)

slim (1652) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519985)

They do, however, have girls sign consent forms, then genuinely coerce them into doing stuff they didn't want to.

That is, the girl makes it clear when she takes the job that there's no anal, nothing rough, no bondage - then one by one, her agent, the director, the male co-star, etc. - browbeat her (verbally) into submission. It wouldn't surprise me at all if girls were given alcohol to expedite the process.

For example, recently a documentary aired on British TV (sorry, can't remember the name) in which exactly this was happening, until the documentary film crew felt they had to intervene, rather than be accessories to rape.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (0)

Hatta (162192) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519591)

Rape is in no way comparable to murder. Punishing rape with death is disproportionate.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

Rude Turnip (49495) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519691)

I'd bet that the next big thing in a few years will be "social justice": Anonymous + bitcoin = assassinations.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1, Informative)

kannibal_klown (531544) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519751)

Actually, the Death Penalty would be counter-intuitive... it would lead to more dead rape victims.

If a rapist is going to get the death penalty anyway, a LOT more of them would probably decide to kill the victim so they couldn't turn them in / report it / etc.

Obviously you have psychos that kill their victims already (before or after) and you have some people that probably still wouldn't kill even if the death penalty was already on the table. But a large percentage would probably decide to do it.

So, by killing the rapists you wind up killing more of the victims.

Don't get me wrong: I feel that rapists and the lot deserve a very painful existence followed by an eternity in the lowest pits of Hell. But I also think that as bad as the victims feel... they deserve a chance to actually LIVE afterwards.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519961)

NOTE: by "they deserve a chance" I mean "the VICTIMS deserve a chance"

My post is all about the victims.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519763)

I've been half-heartedly following this story once I heard the initial reports and what took place was almost, but not quite, as bad as the Indian student who was attacked, raped and beaten on a bus in India and later died.

I think raping someone passed-out without other significant physical harm, which seems to be what you are describing, is a whole lot less heinous than beating up two people for hours so that one of them dies and also raping them. It's still heinous and bad and must be stopped and deserves punishment, but it's a whole lot less heinous than "almost but not quite as bad". Consider this: would you rather have what happened here happen to you 5 times or would you prefer that Indian incident once? You'd prefer this 5 times. Unless your description in terms of "being carried by arms and legs while being recorded" is hyperbole by way of understatement.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (4, Informative)

epp_b (944299) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519869)

Sorry, but there are mounds of evidence as to why the death penalty is not a deterrent (ie.: crimes of passion, psychological studies that show humans are *really* bad at thinking ahead and considering consequences ) and as long as there a still a chance of wrongful conviction, I won't stand for mandated state murder. Not to mention killing is morally wrong no matter what the context or circumstances.

I will happily see my tax dollars spent (and even increased) to incarcerate truly haneous offenders as long as is necessary.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (5, Insightful)

Bob9113 (14996) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519881)

people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

I agree, but then why are you regarding them so much? Why are you spending so much of yourself on hating them? Why not just remove them from society and get on with your life? Why would you let them turn you into a killer? Why let them poison who you are?

It's like torturing terrorists when you don't get actionable intel; even if they genuinely deserve it, that's not the point. It's about what we subject ourselves to. We choose not to torture because torturing harms us, not because the sonofabitch doesn't deserve it.

We choose not to kill because killing is a nasty business, and is not necessary to achieve the goal of minimizing the rapist's ability to effect our world. Rather, it increases his effect on who we are. He does not deserve that power.

Government cannot be trusted (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519889)

You are correct that rape deserves a harsher sentence, but you are absolutely wrong that the solution is the death penalty. The reason why the death penalty should be abolished is that government cannot be trusted with such power. The death penalty is irreversible, and government makes mistakes -- whether accidental or not. That alone is all the rationale we need to abolish the death penalty. But if you care to open your eyes, the evidence [wikipedia.org] is absolutely startling. It is a regular occurance for inmates on death row to later be found innocent, and the rate seems to be increasing. It is very likely that the US government has already executed an innocent man, probably more.

That's not a shortcoming of the judicial system. That's murder, plain and simple.

Re:And still no death penalty for rape (1)

corbettw (214229) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519909)

I understand the emotional aspect of wanting the death penalty for rape; I'm a father and husband, and if someone treated either of my girls or my wife the way these guys did, I might have to stand for murder, myself.

But the cold hard truth is that, if you make the punishment for rape the same as murder, there is literally no reason not to murder the rape victim once you're done. If you're gonna fry either way, might as well not leave any witnesses.

So no, we can't have the death penalty for rape. Not if we don't want something even worse to happen to our loved ones/selves.

The really disturbing part (4, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519185)

The really disturbing part is not just the fact that a 17-year-old was gang-raped, and no charges have been filed. No, the really really disturbing part was that a significant portion of the population of the town have actively opposed doing anything about it.

I mean, why bother even having laws against rape if you're not going to enforce them?

Re:The really disturbing part (2, Informative)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519259)

I mean, why bother even having laws against rape if you're not going to enforce them?

I forget; Which box is listed after "jury" in that famous quote about defending liberty?

Re:The really disturbing part (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42520007)

I mean, why bother even having laws against rape if you're not going to enforce them?

I forget; Which box is listed after "jury" in that famous quote about defending liberty?

Then start shooting, tough guy.

No, seriously. Get off your fat ass, grab a gun, and start defending liberty more than hiding behind a computer screen and regurgitating someone else's memes into an echo chamber. What's wrong? Don't you like liberty?

You don't? Oh. Well then, sorry to disturb you. Keep up the good work, I'm certain something from Wikiquotes will make you a hero someday.

Re:The really disturbing part (5, Insightful)

alen (225700) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519277)

but these were jocks, football players

they are more equal than others

Re:The really disturbing part (5, Insightful)

ZorinLynx (31751) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519477)

Why is being able to run fast and throw/catch a ball accurately considered something that elevates these people above everyone else?

Why can't people be elevated for doing things that actually contribute to society?

Our priorities as a culture are SERIOUSLY fucked up.

Re:The really disturbing part (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519791)

Nick Saban would probably disagree with you.

Re:The really disturbing part (4, Informative)

Kinthelt (96845) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519381)

The NYT article clearly states that two football players were arrested 11 days later, and are being held under house arrest until their trial.

Re:The really disturbing part (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519453)

In Western Pennsylvania, football trumps justice. See the Penn State / Sandusky case for another example.

Re:The really disturbing part (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519501)

This is southeastern Ohio, not western PA. But yes, I'm not terribly surprised - I actually know a few people from the town in question, and it's a real dump.

Re:The really disturbing part (2)

John Napkintosh (140126) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519467)

It's not really disturbing. This is common in small-town America. The parents might be successful members of the community, they might know local government figures who can quietly plead with the small police force to investigate selectively. The mayor's son and the police chief's son might be on the same team. They might be all banding together to protect their kids from a lifelong fate that resulted from a terrible thing they did when they were a bunch of stupid kids.

Note that I'm not condoning this AT ALL. It's totally believable, though.

Re:The really disturbing part (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519481)

Remember the duke lacrosse issue? I wonder why that case was so high profile, eventhough the accuser was shown to be lying and this is the first time i am hearing about this

Re:The really disturbing part (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519639)

In the Duke case, the DA was pandering to constituents who wanted action(it was a serious town/gown thing, and students don't do much voting in local politics). In this case, the relevant authorities are pandering to constituents who want inaction to protect their precious football heroes.

Different incentives; but both good examples of the fact that criminal investigations can be...modified...by the desires of local stakeholders.

Re:The really disturbing part (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519771)

on a local level that may have been true. All I can really remember about it at the time was the media making it about race. but the point does still stand. pandering instead of upholding the rule of law

Re:The really disturbing part (5, Interesting)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519729)

Because sex with drunk chicks is a major past time in America. Parties are arranged with alcohol specifically because people want to get drunk and fuck. It is well known that women do not go to bars to get laid; they go to bars to have fun, which is why we have wingmen--distract the girl's friends so she is isolated, because she's not there to get picked up. That's why guys take home so many drunk chicks: they did not come there to get taken home, they're just too drunk to think straight!

Guys go out to the bar to find drunk bitches to fuck. Guys arrange parties and tell their friends to find chicks to bring so they can get them drunk and fuck them. This is not what college kids do. This is not what teenagers do. Thirties, forties guys do this. It is common, consistent, continuous behavior.

Most laymen don't register this as 'wrong' until somebody calls it rape. Hell even women don't really take much notice that they've been taken for a romp; they just wake up, ask where the hell they are, and try to find their way home without giving it much thought.

There is a sickness in the world, though perhaps I am pessimistic. Maybe the only reason we freak out when someone calls it 'rape' is because we've accepted this behavior to such a level that everyone pre-accepts the consequences--women don't go out to get fucked while they're passed out drunk, but when it happens most of them are like, "Oh yeah, that happens lol... man I was druuuuunk..." and don't flinch. Is this really what we are?

archive.org (1)

schneidafunk (795759) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519203)

I do not see anything in the article that describes how they 'hacked' their way to the truth. It looks like a simple look up of cached info.

Robots.txt is your friend (3, Funny)

Okian Warrior (537106) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519395)

... It looks like a simple look up of cached info.

I always use robots.txt to forbid caching my incriminating evidence.

You can't be too careful these days...

It would appear... (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519249)

The better title might be 'Anonymous actually gives a damn about gang rape case, unlike clannish and football crazed natives of some backwater hellhole'.

The perps in this case were almost unbelievably sloppy in concealing their activities; but the people supposed to be enforcing the law were, by turns, overtly apathetic and far more interested in protecting their hometown heroes and their precious football season than actually seeing justice done.

Re:It would appear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519355)

When asked for comment, 4chan replied "we all like the staged videos, but there's something creepy when it really happens,"

Re:It would appear... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519627)

The authorities aren't overtly apathetic, they're seem to be in full-on coverup mode. According to the narrative that Anonymous/Localleaks/Knight Sec are telling, they have a vested interest that goes well beyond preserving hometown pride. One of the players implicated is the son of the county prosecutor attached to the case, and allegedly the girl transported to the prosecutor's residence during that night and raped before being transported to another location.

Re:It would appear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519983)

For those who did not bother with TFA, mod parent up

Video link (5, Informative)

Amorymeltzer (1213818) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519283)

Deadspin has been great about following this story (see the other links(, and this page from a few days ago is more in depth and has the video itself (and some choice quotes if you can't listen to this sort of thing):

http://deadspin.com/5972527/she-is-so-raped-right-now-former-student-jokes-about-the-steubenville-accuser-the-night-of-the-alleged-rape [deadspin.com]

Truly despicable.

This just in (4, Insightful)

s0nicfreak (615390) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519377)

Anonymous wanted for possession of child porn

Re:This just in (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519965)

That's not news...

False dichotomies ... (2)

BenBoy (615230) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519469)

Not addressing the rape here, but the tech ... It's striking, I think, that we still frame the conversations "The People", with cameras (social media), and "Big Brother", with cameras. But it's all just data, isn't it? And every side gets a chance to try to obtain and to frame that data. I wonder if London didn't waste a bunch of cash installing their panopticon when crowd-sourcing seems to be getting the job done so nicely.

Right guys... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519475)

Right guys, that's the reason they started seeking out and saving this rape video... yep... 'justice'... no other motive at all.

Re:Right guys... (0)

PhxBlue (562201) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519675)

Right guys, that's the reason they started seeking out and saving this rape video... yep... 'justice'... no other motive at all.

Scoff if you want, but there're a lot of "white knight" anons out there, and a lot of people who are in it to see justice done.

Not sure which is more disturbing... (1)

kaizendojo (956951) | about a year and a half ago | (#42519611)

The story or the synopsis posting... "Evidence of a gang rape committed by members of an Ohio high school football team, including video, was, in the way of digital native teenagers today, put online on various social media sites — and was quickly taken down as students began realizing the magnitude of the situation." Enough to make your ears bleed.

OK, the story itself is more disturbing, but c'mon editors; please read these posts before approving them. A touch of grammar saves the day.

Vote Anonymous (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519701)

Sounds like Anonymous is interested in becoming a political party.

Irrelevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519863)

Who cares, it's just random people on the Internet looking for headlines, again. Anonymous is irrelevant. It always has been and always will be.

Bastards. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519925)

I hope they get everything they deserve.

Sad thing about all this is (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42519971)

I bet the girl who got raped will be forced to still keep on living in this "Small town AMERICUH" where everyone is related to everyone else through incest and she will get no help whatsoever in dealing with being raped and her parents won't move out of that town so she doesn't have to face her rapists everyday in school along with the other kids who just stood there and watched taking pictures.

"Yep gotta just say here GOD BLESS AMERICUH AND DUR FOOTBALL"...

And they wonder why the rest of the world looks down upon the USA as one giant landmass of fucking morons and rednecks...

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