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Samba: Less Important Because Windows Is Less Important

Unknown Lamer posted about a year and a half ago | from the liberating-windows-users dept.

Microsoft 162

Jeremy Allison - Sam writes "Interview Bruce Byfield did with me after the Samba 4.0 release. Discusses interactions with Microsoft, the future of the code and project, and many other things."

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First posting? (1, Offtopic)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550009)

Still important :-P

Re:First posting? (5, Insightful)

aoteoroa (596031) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550231)

Samba is absolutely still important. We just take SAMBA for granted now more than ever because it is pre-installed everywhere in almost every appliance. For example buy a $20 internet 'router' from Best Buy that can share a connected USB drive over a LAN and it probably uses SAMBA for functionality.

Re:First posting? (5, Insightful)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550265)

I use Samba at home for my media file shares, and probably still would have even if Windows interoperability wasn't an issue, it's widely supported by most non-Windows OSes (except iOS, the first OS where you need to pay to add on a Samba client. Progress!)

Re:First posting? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550713)

I consider Samba the first option to share any file between any two machines on the same network, regardless of platform. Primarily because (almost) every platform supports it, and secondly because it is both easy to set up for quickly sharing something, and powerful to accommodate teams.

Re:First posting? (2)

tibit (1762298) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551165)

It's also easier to set up than nfs4+kerberos!

Re:First posting? (5, Insightful)

Jeremy Allison - Sam (8157) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550485)

And it still probably won't come with an offer for source code (sigh :-).

Jeremy.

Re:First posting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551077)

Thank you for all your hard work!

I once dreamed, as you, that Windows would not be important anymore, and then Samba would become less important. Now I dream that samba will slowly be integrated into corporate cloud sharing services, something like Dropbox + database service, or the upcoming Octopus from VMWare. I hope Samba, or maybe rather Samba with some add-on will lead the way. (The database service so coworkers can store shared business data for merge jobs in LibreOffice, etc.)

Re:First posting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552301)

Jeremy, why do you have a photo of John Malkovich (with hair) in your profile?

Re:First posting? (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550693)

Samba is absolutely still important. We just take SAMBA for granted now more than ever because it is pre-installed everywhere in almost every appliance. For example buy a $20 internet 'router' from Best Buy that can share a connected USB drive over a LAN and it probably uses SAMBA for functionality.

Agreed.

Samba is not seen as a big issue these days because it works so incredibly well. Software only gets your attention when it fails.

As for Windows not being as important, that simply is not the case in corporate america. In fact the only reason Linux exists in the corporate world is because of Samba. Any growth if Linux in the server or workstation role is due principally to Samba, and without it there would be virtually zero Linux adaptation in the workplace. Businesses are natural mono-cultures when it comes to computing systems.

Re:First posting? (5, Interesting)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550801)

You say this while I've got a power point presentation open about our new "lets put everyone on Virtual machines and have them remote in via linux terminals!" Something I never thought I'd see. It's not going to happen tomorrow but we're never going to Windows 8 or above. That's relatively clear. Microsoft nailed their own coffin shut.

Re:First posting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551967)

This is something we're seriously testing (700+ desktops): PCs run linux (probably ubuntu) with the actual work on VMs they remote to.
Super low costs, eliminate most worries about virus/security, easy to manage... it's turning into a serious project.

Slightly off topic but.. after all the bitching about Unity, Microsoft has shown us there are worse ways to do a desktop. We're definitely not going to w8 across the company.

Go For It ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552425)

If your user don't use MS Office primarily, then virtualize the crap and use RDP to access it. Do your corporate applications either with Qt-based fat clients or in the browser using HTML5. You could also spend some money on making legacy apps work with Wine.
Especially sensitive R&D data will be much more secure on Linux and BSD machines. Allow MS Office only for "unrestricted" documents. Mandate OpenOffice with AppArmor for "secret" documents.
Do not allow the Windows VMs to surf the net - that will only give Chicom intel a chance to pwn your R&D data and then kill your employer by means of cheap copycat products.

Re:First posting? (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550887)

So you have never heard of webservers?
DNS? NTP? FTP?

All of those are commonly run on Linux. Businesses are not natural mono-cultures. Lots of businesses use many different computing systems and it has been that way since there were computing systems.

Re:First posting? (4, Interesting)

ArsonSmith (13997) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550903)

Strange, nearly 20 years and 10 companies as a Linux admin and Samba has always been a slight afterthought, rarely used. I always figured if it wasn't for exchange windows wouldn't even exist in the corporate world any more.

Re:First posting? (4, Funny)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551285)

FLASH: Man with Linux colored classes sees only Linux machines.
Film at 11.

Re:First posting? (3, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552025)

Once you get into bigger problems and more demanding SLAs, the prevalance of Windows declines rather quickly.

Re:First posting? (2)

shaitand (626655) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552159)

Yup outlook/exchange. I've never understood what is so great a technical challenge in developing open solutions that replace these well but when something pops up it seems to focus on only one piece of this or it provides calendar and email but as separate pieces within the suite and not tying and integrating all the pieces together the way exchange does.

Re:First posting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550947)

Not true at all. Actually, the reason Linux exists is because of web and database servers. File serving came in because of the door opened by the previous two.

Re:First posting? (5, Informative)

Jeremy Allison - Sam (8157) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551155)

No, you're getting the history the wrong way around.

Samba was started in '92. The web wasn't on most companies radar until the late 90's.

Web and database on Linux came in the door opened by file servers :-).

Our original platform was SunOS (not even Solaris). When Samba started Linux was a toy, it didn't even have networking.

Jeremy.

Re:First posting? (1, Informative)

shaitand (626655) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552413)

Jeremy I have no doubt you know when Samba was started but started and widely adopted are two different things.

I certainly saw no sign of serious samba deployment until after serious Linux deployment and in most organization that was after the Linux boxes were first deployed (at least deployments that stuck) in roles that were previously owned by UNIX such as web/ftp/dns and for a while email but exchange ended up winning email. It wasn't until after a company already had Linux working and proven as a reliable source of a cheap dust collector that just works before they would risk more directly desktop interfacing tasks to it like file/print and auth.

Re:First posting? (1)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551261)

Not true at all. Actually, the reason Linux exists is because of web and database servers. File serving came in because of the door opened by the previous two.

Your sense of history is sort of warped.
The vast majority of businesses with in-house web servers probably stated with Microsoft web servers, and were forced to abandon that idea when growth (and insecurity) made it no longer tenable. Same for Database servers.

But to complete your education, walk into any modern office, and count the number of Linux desktops.

Muha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551131)

You are probably talking about GM and the like. There are lots of deep pros in the financial industry and other industry datacenters who are doing customized things on Linux which do not involve SMB at all. Things like millisecond trading, market data distribution, search engines, silly things for teenagers on massive scale, and a lot more. They will never touch Windows, because they know what they do. They come from Unix, MVS, and VMS.

Only the rust-belt muppets run Windows in the datacenter.

Re:Muha (1)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551209)

I'm talking about Main-Street businesses. Not Wall Street businesses.
Look around you for pete sake. Business does not begin with GM and end at the NYSE.

Re:Muha (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552065)

An operation like that may just as likely be using a Unix based appliance. Even for small businesses, server components are no longer Windows only. In some case, the client side of the vertical apps aren't Windows only anymore either.

Re:First posting? (1)

poetmatt (793785) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551293)

If you think Linux exists because of Samba, I'd like to remind you of a company called Oracle. They are the most important in corporate america. Windows doesn't mean shit in the big picture.

Re:First posting? (1)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551463)

I suggest you look at the link I posted. I think you will find you are utterly and hopelessly misinformed.

Re:First posting? (1)

shaitand (626655) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552097)

I'm sorry but you simply don't speak for what is the case in corporate america. The only place you see windows or samba needing to replace it is on desktops, file and print servers and often authentication ties (so as to support single sign-on) and exchange. In most of those cases it is only used because it easy and popular. And thanks to Samba 4 you could drop windows from all of that but exchange and the desktops. At the end of the day the main reason you use windows/samba for print/auth is that you already have it for your desktop+outlook combo.

This all represents a very small part of the corporate server world. You aren't going to find windows boxes serving webpages or anywhere in the data center. Most applications (especially the internal apps that drive a workplace) are going to be running on Linux and served up through a web interface.

Perhaps it is just me. When you say 'corporate america' my mind goes to at least Fortune 1000. I suppose technically you could include all the small businesses that don't really have an infrastructure beyond desktop/file/print/exchange but are legally structured as a s or c corp.

Re:First posting? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551307)

-1 Overrated for karma whoring on the first post.

samba - racist (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550029)

Look, it's 2013. The President of the United States is a mulatto. And the free software world is full of racist and offensive names like "samba" and "gimp". Yeah, I got a snicker out of that when I was 15. Well, it's time to grow up.

Re: samba - racist (5, Informative)

dreold (827386) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550113)

Samba is a dance. Your confusing it with the term "Sambo" which is generally considered a racist term.

Re: samba - racist (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550407)

Funny, I thought Sambo was a martial art. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_%28martial_art%29

Re: samba - racist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550461)

sambo is a russian martial art...

Sambo's (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550517)

I use to really like eating at Sambo's.
Sambo's TV commercial. [fuzzymemories.tv] Circa 1980.

Re:Sambo's (1)

Gilmoure (18428) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550921)

I thought Sambos turned into Denny's.

Re:Sambo's (3, Funny)

OhSoLaMeow (2536022) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551769)

I thought Sambos turned into Denny's.

Like the tiger turned into butter?

Re: samba - racist (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550525)

Back in the 80's, I used to meet up with friends at the local Sambo's Restaurant. However, to maintain Political Correctness, we always referred to it as "Jigaboo's".

It's funny - laugh.

Re: samba - racist (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550899)

Real life is funnier than jokes, you know in some parts of the country there is still a chain of restaurants called Bojangles. I shit you not, look it up.

Best chicken, biscuits, and fries (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551057)

The name on its own is not racist. The company is pretty decent. The guy himself was a great dancer and quite famous. Might as well start calling people Cosby or Chappelle to somehow be derogatory. I would guess it is the same as calling native-americans Chief or Indians calling white guys boss.

Re:Best chicken, biscuits, and fries (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552325)

SHUT YOUR TRAP you uncle COSBY!

Re:Best chicken, biscuits, and fries (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552355)

Well considering that all the sports teams called 'Indians' or 'Braves' are being shamed for being 'racist' for what are clearly neutral or even positive terms, I think that 'Bojangles' falls on a more derogatory side of the line since it evokes/connotes minstrel shows. My wife, who is black, agrees.

Re: samba - racist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551491)

I don't think Bojangles is racist, and I never heard anybody complain about the name of the restaurant. Now, if you really wanted to be taken 'aback, there was the time in the 80s when somebody handed me a package of "Dixie Boy" fire crackers, which had stereotyped black kids eating watermelon on the package. It was 1986, IIRC, and he may have bought them in South Carolina. I have a hard time imagining they were actually still being sold then. They may have come from his grandfather's closet or something. I honestly don't recall if we lit them, so they may have already been a "vintage collectible" at that point.

Re: samba - racist (1)

operagost (62405) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551933)

It's a biscuits'n'gravy place. I do have to ask what's wrong with "Bojangles", though. You do know it was Bill Robinson's nickname, right? If that's racist, then so is "Coolio" or "Dr. Dre".

Re: samba - racist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551413)

Is that like Coon Chicken Inn?

Bonus points if you know the reference

Re: samba - racist (1)

DiegoBravo (324012) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550657)

In Spanish, especially in conquered Latin America, zambo was one of the (many) technical terms used to specify the different mixes resulting from white (Spanish), native american, and blacks, and their descendants. Specifically, zambo(a) was the first generation of the mix between native american and black.
It's current usage is obviously broader and informal, and no longer a "racist" term per se.

Re: samba - racist (2, Informative)

PPH (736903) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550683)

Samba is a dance.

Yes. And when we let Microsoft lead, they keep stepping on everyone's toes. I'm going to a friend's office soon to find out why the addition of one stinking Windows 8 system has broken all the file sharing between her existing Vista, Windows 7 and XP systems.

Re: samba - racist (1)

cod3r_ (2031620) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550823)

Maybe it didn't.. maybe she just told you it did so that you'd go to her office after hours. Ever think about that?

Re: samba - racist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551325)

Maybe it didn't.. maybe she just told you it did so that you'd go to her office after hours. Ever think about that?

Yeah but don't get too excited. She might be a fat chick.

I realize they have two X chromosomes but they don't actually register as "female". How can you respect a woman who doesn't respect and take care of herself?

Re: samba - racist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552203)

It's because Microsoft is an infectious cunt. Wear three condoms.

Re: samba - racist (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550771)

Offtopic, but Interesting. There is a brazillian music group called Sambo who replays famous music in Samba rythm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o95cSuXlsdk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK1YY9l8vDQ

Re: samba - racist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551329)

Sambo is a Scandinavian (Swedish, Danish and Norwegian) term meaning "the one i live together with as husband and wife", there is no gender information in the term.
Sambo may also be used by people just sharing the same apartment with equal rights, which is btw. the exact meaning of this conjunction.

Re: samba - racist (1)

Alef (605149) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551531)

It could probably be translated to "cohabitation partner". The legal term "sambo" refers to each of two people living together as a couple in a long-term relationship with a shared economy (like they were married). So simply sharing an apartment would not qualify from a legal perspective. (This is for example relevant if one of them were to die.)

Re:samba - racist (0)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550117)

Samba is just a form of dance AFAIK...now change that last A to an O, and that's something different...

Re:samba - racist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550237)

Sambo is also the name of a martial art very popular in Russia.

Re:samba - racist (1, Offtopic)

0100010001010011 (652467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550143)

Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552285)

Can you make it

"BSD is only for kiddie porn makers"

"Apache is a racial slur against Indians"

"Linux kills little penguins for the cosmetic industry"

"Hitler wrote Mein Kampf using OpenOffice"

"Amnesty International will crumble without MS Office"

"Mao was the initial core developer of SVN"

"Kim Il Dictator controls tanks using RPIs"

"Firefox is financed by brothel pimps"

I really enjoy to ram some counterpropaganda up into your Redmond asses. So keep me busy. Thank you.

I think you are looking for this classic of ol' /. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551087)

Open Source? More Like Openly Racist

Alan Cox; Richard Stallman; Bruce Perens; Wichert Akkerman.

What do you see in this list of names? Are there any African-Americans on it? Absolutely not, none of those names sound like one a self-respecting black person would have! No Maurice, no Luther, no Lil' Kim. There are many other lists such as this, you can see one here. Flip through each page, do you see anything other than white faces? Of course you don't, because Open Source and its adherents are ardent racists and they absolutely forbid access to the sacred 'kernel' by any person of color.

  Lets look at another list, this time a compendium of the companies using Linux. Are there any black owned companies on that list? Nooooooo. How about these companies? They all have something to do with Open Source software, any of them owned by an African-American? No again. Here is an extensive collection of photographs from a LUG (Linux User Gathering) meeting, more can be viewed at that link. What is odd about these pictures, and every other photograph I have ever seen of a LUG meeting, is that there is not one single black person to be seen, and probably none for miles.

  More racist overtones can be found by examining the language of Open Source. They often refer to 'white hat' hackers. These 'white hats' scurry about the Internet doing good, but illegal, acts for their fellow man. In stark contrast we find the 'black hat' hackers. They destroy the good works of others by breaking into systems, stealing data, and generally causing havoc. These two terms reflect the mindset of most Linux developers. White means good, black means bad. Anywhere there is black, there is uncontrollable destruction and lawlessness. Looking further we see black lists that inform other users of 'bad' hardware, Samba, an obvious play on the much hated Little Black Sambo book, Mandrake, which I won't explain except to say that the French are notorious racists. This type is linguistic discrimination is widespread throughout the Open Source culture, lampooned by many of its more popular sites.

  It is also a fact that all Unix 'distros' contain a plethora of racist commands with not so hidden symbolism.

  It can hardly be coincidence that the prime operating system of choice of the 'open source supremacists' - Linux, features commands which are poorly disguised racist acronyms. For example: 'awk' (All White Klan) , 'sed' (shoot nEgroes dead), 'ln' (lynch negroes), 'rpm' (raical purity mandatory), 'bash' (bring a slave home), 'ps' (persecute sambo), 'mount' (murder or unseat nubians today), 'fsck' (favored supreme Christian klan). I could go on and on about the latent racist symbolism in Linux, but I fear it would take weeks to enumerate every incidence.

  Is there a single unix command out there that does not have some hidden racist connotation ? Suffice it to say that the racism pervades Linux like a particularly bad smell. Can you imagine the effect of running such a racist operating system on the impressionable mind ? I don't have to remind you that transmitting subliminal messages is banned in the USA, and yet here we have an operating system that appears to be one enormous submliminal ad for the Klan!

  One of the few selling points of Open Source software is that it is available in many different languages. Browsing through the list I see that absolutely none are offered in Swahili, nor Ebonics. Obviously this is done to prevent black people from having access to the kernel. If it weren't for the fact that racism is so blatantly evil I would be impressed by the efforts these Open Sourcers have invested in keeping their little hobby lilly white. It even appears that they hate the Japanese, as some of these self proclaimed hackers defaced a web site with anti-Japanese slogans. Hell, these people even go all the way to Africa (South Africa mind you, better known as White Africa) and the pictures prove that they don't even get close to a black person.

  Of course, presenting overwhelming evidence such as this is a bit unfair without some attempt to determine why these Open Sourcers are so racist. Much of the evidence I have collected indicates that their views are so deeply held that they are seldom questioned by the new recruits. This, coupled with the robot-like groupthink that dominates the culture allows the racist mindset to continue to permeate the ranks. Indeed, the Open Source version of a Klan rally, OSDN (known to the world as Open Source Developer's Network, known to insiders as Open Source Denies Negroes) nearly stands up and shouts its racist views on its demographics page. It doesn't mention the black man one single time. Obviously, anyone involved with Open Source doesn't need to be told that the demographic is entirely white, it is a given.

  I have a sneaking suspicion as to why their beliefs are so closely held: they are all terrible athletes.

  Really. Much like the tragedy at Columbine High School, where two geeks went on a rampage to get back at 'jocks', these adult geeks still bear the emotional scars inflicted upon them due to their lack of athletic ability during their teen years. As African-Americans are well known for their athletic skills, they are an obvious target for the Open Source geeks. As we all know, sports builds character, thus it follows that the lack of sports destroys character. These geeks, locked away in their rooms, munching on stale pizza and Fritos, engage in no character building activities. Further, they interact only with computers and never develop the level of social skill that allows normal people to handle relationships with persons of color.

Re:I think you are looking for this classic of ol' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551487)

That was the longest troll I have ever read. Good work.

+5 Troll

Re:I think you are looking for this classic of ol' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551779)

I could do better with a +5 Bastard Sword.

Re:I think you are looking for this classic of ol' (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552029)

So you are saying Obama is also a Ballmer pawn like you ? Yeah, sounds right.

Also Homos Don't Use Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552071)

..because it discriminates against them. Use that as you next propaganda meme, Mr $hit.

Comedy silver (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550101)

Earlier today I read a man complaining to Slashdot that Linux only has two data sharing options "off" and "configure 400 settings." He was answerred with a post of "just use Samba."

And then, this.

Re:Comedy silver (4, Informative)

robmv (855035) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550423)

As the person who wrote that comment, I see no contradiction here. Samba 4.0 is needed because it updates everything adding Active Directory protocols. If for some reason all Windows system die tomorrow, Samba 4.0 is less important because the main use of it is Windows interoperability, actual samba is pretty useful for basic file sharing, and if you remove one of the uses of it to something, it become less important. Samba AD integration is not used for Linux system, it is just for Windows clients.

A project to follow for equivalent functionality of AD for pure Linux system is FreeIPA (still a lot of development ahead but the architecture is good)

Re:Comedy silver (1)

Lashat (1041424) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550615)

AD inegration is important for small, medium, and large businesses if you want to connectivity to be "out of the box" easy.

Re:Comedy silver (2)

robmv (855035) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550807)

I don't see why AD integration is needed for a small business, even some medium ones, that only is true if you run Windows clients. I have clients running pure Linux environments (one that you can call medium sized, a Hospital), for what will I need AD integration?

Re:Comedy silver (2)

Junta (36770) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550935)

Simple, if a business has AD infrastructure, AD integration is important. I've seen AD infrastructures in place even in companies of no more than a couple dozen people.

I'm not saying they couldn't have managed without it, but if the powers that be happened to pick AD, then that small business is using AD, whether you think it necessary or not.

We aren't looking for 'is it possible for a small business to avoid AD', we are looking for 'is it true that *currently* AD is not a significant player in small to medium technical businesses?'. The former is undoubtedly true, but the latter is absolutely false.

Windows is more open (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551083)

Samba is less important because windows is more open. Other than hosting cifs shares there is now little you can't do in the server room without Samba. Samba certainly makes things easier in that as others have pointed out "it just works". The fact is today AD is at the core the identity system many enterprises use.

The good news is that with nss_ldap, the mit kerberos package and little else you are off to the races now. It takes a little setup Samba would do for you, but a couple cron jobs to keep kerb TGTs refreshed, some thought about your ldap config, perhaps and AD schema extention or two and you have got what you need.

Its nothing like the bad old days of trying to participate in an NT domain. Its not great Microsoft has played fast and loose with some standards but AD is open enough that foreign clients can participate without specifically designed compatibility layers like Samba.

Re:Comedy silver (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552119)

An ActiveDirectory infastructure is unlikely in anything but a "big business". Anything smaller is simply not going to bother.

Certainly a "small business" isn't going to touch AD. They have neither the requirements nor the dedicated staff to manage it.

AD is for environments large enough that they might be using LDAP in their server room.

Re:Comedy silver (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550773)

If for some reason all Windows system die tomorrow,

Other than that 800 pound gorilla in the room, there is nobody else around....

Hand waiving away 90% of the desktop OS users [wikipedia.org] to make a point about samba being less important seems reaching at best.

I think you could safely make the if for some reason Samba dies tomorrow, Linux in the workplace gets shoveled into the same grave.

Re:Comedy silver (1)

Junta (36770) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550991)

Though I wonder if, given Samba 4.0, FreeIPA is really that critical..

You could either have Samba which can serve a pure Linux environment just fine or even cleanly cope with Windows servers.

On the other hand, FreeIPA can serve a pure Linux environment, perhaps a strict subset of samba capability.

I think FreeIPA was more critically important as it was a faster path to directory based authentication and claimed to be much more production ready than Samba 4.0 claimed to be. I think with Samba 4.0, an inflection point has been reached where there is likely no reason to 'settle' for FreeIPA when Samba may enjoy a superset of capability now...

Re:Comedy silver (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42552183)

SMB is a proprietary M$ technology designed to keep people locked into the clutches of the monopolist. It still is not properly and fully documented.
So LDAP, NFS, SVN, FreeIPA are the only *real* alternatives where you can have truly competitive vendors to sell you products and services.
If you like freedom, you hate SMB.

Re:Comedy silver (1)

Jeremy Allison - Sam (8157) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550755)

Hahahah ! Actually, that's comedy *gold*.

man smb.conf :-).

Not important? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550293)

So, integrating old machines running legacy systems with newer/different platform servers is less important?

Too bad SMB is so slow (2)

Theovon (109752) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550581)

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the latest versions of the SMB protocol were a bit more asynchronous and high-performance. But using older versions, I found SMB (Samba on one end, CIFS on the other, in general), could not saturate a gigabit ethernet link, while NFS and AFP could. I kept using it because for compatibility but stuck with NFS or AFP for performance, AFP more now that Netatalk 3.x sucks so much less than Netatalk 2.x. (Netatalk 2.x suffered from various problems like random connection drops.)

Re:Too bad SMB is so slow (5, Informative)

Jeremy Allison - Sam (8157) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550619)

It's all in how the server is configured, and if the client will pipeline requests.

I can easily saturate a gigabit network using modern Linux CIFSFS and Samba. Ensure you turn on pthread based aio on the server, and the client now issues multiple outstanding read/write requests.

SMB2 makes this easier as it does this by default even on Windows clients. Ensuring your server has the pthread-based aio is the key though (depending on server CPU availablilty - on low end systems some OEM's get more mileage by using zero-copy sendfile/recvfile instead).

Jeremy.

Re:Too bad SMB is so slow (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551339)

Yep

I was getting 98% utilization on gigabit pipes 10 years ago using Samba. It was at Sony Electronics manufacturing plant in San Diego. Throughput with Samba is nothing new.

R I G H T (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550603)

I am sure corporations are lining up hands over fists demanding to get rid of their stable Windows Servers that just work for something that is strange to them from a bearded guy who talks about how evil is for companies to make money selling software.

SMB exists in the corpoare environment only so this is a non issue outside the office. Windows Servers are serving business clients. Last I checked they all use Windows and have no plans to change. Consumers maybe switching to tablets for non work related tasks but they do not use Windows Servers at home. Apache, NGIX, or Java pages work as well as IIS for them.

I see no drop in demand at all. Maybe in 6 years as corpos are typically 5- 8 years behind the times start switching to IPADs with keyboards maybe Samba might have a point. But that day is not today.

Re:R I G H T (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551053)

SMB exists in the corpoare environment only so this is a non issue outside the office.

Eh? Most consumer grade NAS on the marker are accessed via SMB (and run Samba on Linux).

Re:R I G H T (3, Informative)

gmack (197796) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551103)

In our office we have a 2 TB NAS for backing up desktops and posting files that need to be shared to the whole office. Guess what it runs? Linux + samba + a custom web interface. The fun thing about SAMBA these days is that a lot of people running it don't realize they are running it.

Home SMB (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551255)

SMB exists in the corpoare environment only so this is a non issue outside the office.

Say what? I was under the impression that file sharing between PCs running Windows on the same LAN used the SMB protocol.

Windows Servers are serving business clients.

Not always. There used to be Windows Home Server [wikipedia.org] .

Importance not related to Windows (3, Insightful)

cait56 (677299) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550669)

Thinking that Samba is less important because "Windows is less important" is definitely off target. The obvious implication of the statement is that if Samba is less important then NFS is. I certainly am not aware of any trend there. CIFS and NFS both remain valid NAS protocols. To the extent that "Windows is less important" because PCs are less important then you are dealing with some serious trends in storage.

One trend is the growing use of virtual disks in VMs to provide storage. This is just stupidity. Shared files server users far better than virtual disks do. Files are not created for OSs, they are a mechanism for sharing information between users.
.
The other trend is away from NAS and towards object storage. That is a good trend, but not one that will make NAS protocols obsolete anytime soon.

Re:Importance not related to Windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550847)

Object storage was a fad of the late 1990s, it's going nowhere now just as it did then.

Re:Importance not related to Windows (1)

snadrus (930168) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552289)

I have seen many consider NFS (sharing-side) laborious versus RDP and seeing the files where they are.

What is displacing AD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550709)

What the hell does "windows is less important" mean, Active Directory hasn't budged, and CIFS still dominates inter-office file sharing.

gmail, dropbox (1)

bigtrike (904535) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551197)

If you've got a small enough organization, you can probably get by with gmail tied to your domain and either dropbox or serverless CIFS for sharing files.

Skewed perspective... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550715)

I had it in my career too. Back in the mid-90s, Linux was used sparingly in certain industries and Windows dominated the workplace. To survive, Linux systems did almost always have to play ball.

That balance *has* changed, but not quite that much, though perception of what is going on is very very contingent on career path. About 2003 or so, I was going from place to place with significant Linux footprint, but unavoidable Windows instances. As my experience progressed, opportunities that I pursued afforded me the chance to gravitate to nearly Linux exclusive businesses and organizations. If you are a top notch Linux developer, your reality will change so that Windows will not be a large role.

In relatively recent history, my career has had me participate in more wider sampling of companies with significantly complex IT organizations, despite my recent Linux-exclusive career. I realized that while *my* world had changed, the business world at large was still where it was about 7 years ago with respect to Windows footprint.

Particularly someone as renouned as Allison is likely to have his world changed for more than typical...

Windows? What is that? (0)

nauseous (2239684) | about a year and a half ago | (#42550749)

Are they talking about xwindows? I don't get it! Are they talking about outdated MS windows? Yeah, thanks for the outdated news, we already know it's less important. Who cares.

How to avoid Windows Server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42550999)

My boss is going to change our network from an efficient Samba-based setup to Windows server-based network. He keeps claiming that Samba doesn't provide a "real domain" (his words). We have quite a few Linux desktops and more Linux VMs, plus various Linux servers.

Through Samba, the Windows machines access the files on the main Linux fileserver, with no additional logins required (the windows machines are joined to the samba domain). We make extensive use of dynamic DNS so that machines are only addressed by name.

How to prevent this migration? I need compelling arguments. My boss is the type who is never wrong (at least, in his own mind). I suspect that the network will turn to cr*p for Linux users.

Re:How to avoid Windows Server? (1)

tibman (623933) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551221)

This should be an easy battle. Make sure he can only use linux on his workstation : )

Re:How to avoid Windows Server? (2)

bigtrike (904535) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551235)

Give him a breakdown of licensing and support costs for the next 5 years. Windows Server gets pretty expensive when you start adding the client acces licenses in for all of the different products.

Re:How to avoid Windows Server? (1)

tibit (1762298) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551423)

Have him explain, in technical terms, how what samba provides isn't real. If by it not being real he means "not AD-based", then well, samba 4 is the answer he's looking for. Learn samba4, port ldap data (if you use ldap), start it on a test server (rename the domain to something else!), log in from various versions of windows, test, then deploy and be done. I'll be doing it in the coming weeks: migrating from samba3+ldap to samba4. The dreaded old HP printers are my only nightmare, their print drivers are broken and don't work properly even with windows servers :(

Re:How to avoid Windows Server? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551681)

Very tough to go against that. SMB is a crapola invented by M$ to lock users into their products and their architecture. Little wonder that "M$ can do SMB best".

Linux users are advised to avoid this crap and use either NFS or ssh-based sharing instead. Let your bo$$ live under the impression that "everybody has switched to Windows Servers" and maintain your Linux-based servers secretly.
Here are some more excellent options for sharing:

+ svn
+ git
+ rsync
+ bittorrent
+ LDAP
+ WebDAV

If your bo$$ were open to arguments, he would recognize that FOSS software offers much better customizability, choice, flexibility, competitive vendors, much better robustness, much better security and many more advantages. I just suspect he is in love with Powerpoint and the other shiny tools by the monopolist.
Managers pride themselves in their idiocy of "I can see the quality of something by looking at it". Certainly Linux is often as ugly as a Lada, but also as sturdy, reliable and maintainable as a Lada. Managers would take a nice Alfa-Romeo over a Lada anytime, though. Even if everybody told them that the Alfa will break in the next cold rainstorm.

There is nothing you can do, short of quitting this job and joining leading-edge institutions such as Google, Deutsche Börse, the Tokio Stock exchange, Facebook (they lead in massive teenager messaging, whatever you think about it), CERN (the leading particle smashers), NASA, NSA, interactive data, French National Police, Stuttgarter Versicherungen and many more.

Re:How to avoid Windows Server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551811)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters

Re:How to avoid Windows Server? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551851)

http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linux2.html

Re:How to avoid Windows Server? (1)

Hatta (162192) | about a year and a half ago | (#42551935)

I don't understand. Samba and Windows Server have practically identical features. You should be able to mount a Windows share the same way you mount a Samba share.

Children of the Meme. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551219)

More of the desktop / server / business / content creation market is going away meme. Stop already. Nobody is buying it.

Now that apple is losing global market share and apple will be selling a 99 dollar phone, and the microsoft windows 8 / tablet combo turned out to be a dude (sic), all the players that took their chips off the desktop market and went all in on selling pink iphones to little girls have some explaining to do to the shareholders.

The smart phone margins are going to get crushed. The smart phone market is about 18 months away from the commodity phase and 3% gross margins.

And all these fools that pissed away the steady ka-ching, triple AAA cashflow of the business market are still floating the get rich quick, "smart phone bubble meme" and it's logical inverse, the "desktop is dead meme". It is misdirection to keep the older guys, the Buffets and Soros and Schiffs of the world, smart old guys with lots of money, the 800 pound titans that did not grow with an iphone in their cribs, from dropping the axe on these fools.

and valve goes to linux (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42551275)

windows isnt important ever again

Summary by the Hulk (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552169)

Interview Bruce Byfield did with me after the Samba 4.0 release.

Next week, Hulk interview Steve Ballmer. Goodnight puny humans!

Is S4 release a part of 12.04LTS repository yet? (1)

Anomalyst (742352) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552247)

or is it still at the alpha release?

What he really means... (0, Troll)

FyberOptic (813904) | about a year and a half ago | (#42552445)

...is that Samba has been such a sub-par version of the protocols for years that businesses still primarily refuse to use it in place of dedicated and reliably-functioning Windows servers. That's the only reason Samba is less important.

Seriously, you've been developing it for 20+ years and you still haven't implemented a proper mailslot interface?

I don't care what anyone says, there is no comparable product offering the same level of management and privilege control as what Microsoft offers. I can hear the open-source crowd freaking out already, but it doesn't change that fact. This is why Windows servers predominantly manage Windows clients. Linux can stick to the databases and web serving, where the file/permissions system is far less important.

I'm not even a Windows Server fan, but prefer to configure one of those any day than the nightmare of cryptic config files in the alternative.

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