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Symbian Sells Millions, Despite Nokia Pushing Windows Phone

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the will-of-the-market dept.

Windows 218

Nerval's Lobster writes "During the fourth quarter of 2012, Nokia sold 4.4 million Lumia smartphones—a significant rise from the previous quarter, which featured sales of 2.9 million Lumia devices. The Lumia line runs Microsoft's Windows Phone operating system, which largely replaced Symbian as Nokia's smartphone software of choice. Despite that shift and Nokia's emphasis on Windows Phone, however, the company still sold 2.2 million Symbian smartphones during the quarter. The question remains whether Nokia should have gone with Windows Phone in the first place, or embraced an alternate platform such as Android; an anti-Elop camp has emerged in recent months, arguing that Symbian was still a viable platform before Elop consigned it to the dustbin of tech history. For now at least, both sides seem to be right: Symbian still sells despite Nokia's attempts to take it increasingly offline, and Lumia phones are selling well. It'll take more time—perhaps a lot more time—before the ramifications of Elop's bet become clear."

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218 comments

Good bye (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553303)

Good bye Elop, good bye Windows Phone and GOOD BYE MICROSOFT!!!

Re:Good bye (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553381)

Didn't you say something similar about 10 or 15 years ago?

Re:Good bye (2, Funny)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553639)

That was a different Anonymous Coward :)

Re:Good bye (1)

Therad (2493316) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555437)

There are more than one??? I thought it was just one very disturbed person, which often argues with him/herself with conflicting views.

Re:Good bye (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553983)

You mean goodbye Apple?

Re:Good bye (1)

Nossie (753694) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554873)

your average joe didn't think a tablet would be 'good' enough 10 - 15 years ago...

shame all those tablets don't run Windows

THAT is the difference.

2013 the year of Windows Phone (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555121)

Didn't you say something similar about 10 or 15 years ago?

...I doubt it. Ironically in the context of this article Android the Os that Nokia did not choose is set to overtake Windows in Market share this year to become the dominant OS...and Sells 1.5million daily. Windows Phone sold 4.4Million...and is already expecting to sell less next quarter in its own release..

Re:Good bye (1)

Kenshin (43036) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555169)

You actually want Symbian?

Eww.

BTW, MeeGo had already flown the coop. You do know that, right?

Re:Good bye (2, Insightful)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555365)

I still have a symbian phone. It works fine.

Of course I'm a bit old school, I prefer my phone to be functional rather then stylish.

what is a symbian phone? (1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553305)

I'm in US...

Re:what is a symbian phone? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553355)

You can read more about it here. [wikipedia.org] It's really quite interesting they've decided to use this technology to make phones.

Silly Slashdot post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553325)

The question is really why does Slashdot allows retarded stories from so many Microsoft haters.

Re:Silly Slashdot post (1)

dimeglio (456244) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553997)

I think everyone loves to hate some company or other. Since this is Slashdot (and not Backslashdot) it's perfectly normal.

Re:Silly Slashdot post (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554331)

So wait a second here. The submitter is pointing out an anomaly or fluke in the statistics, and you assume he's a Microsoft hater? Submitter says he'll wait awhile to see what happens before passing judgement. And, he's a hater?

Sounds more like you're a fanboi, and anything that doesn't praise Microsoft is "hate" in your book.

Stop sniveling - there are many ways to do things, without relying on Microsoft. It's not OUR FAULT that your junior high school only has Microsoft products. Maybe when you get to high school, they'll have something different for your to play with, giving you the opportunity to learn something new and different.

Re:Silly Slashdot post (0)

ralphbecket (225429) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555151)

I think I missed the anomaly you saw.

Nokia sold 50% more lumias than the preceding quarter and a 100% more lumias than Symbian phones in the same quarter.

I've owned a Windows 7.5 phone (a Samsung) for over a year now and I'm delighted with it. I've owned an iPhone and I have Android 4 on my Kindle Fire and neither of them match up in terms of usability. I really don't understand the juvenile frothing at the mouth here whenever it is pointed out that MS has made a good product.

Re:Silly Slashdot post (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555257)

One small problem: GP never mentioned any such thing, and never performed any "frothing at the mouth". The anomaly is that Symbian was (according to Elop) supposed to be dead by now, yet it sees increasing sales.

It's people like you that necessitate a "-1 Miserable Astroturfing Shill" mod so, so badly.

WP 8 and "usability in the same sentence? Honkey please...

Re:Silly Slashdot post (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555357)

Aww, that's so sweet. The Microsoft shill said "Android 4" on his Kindle Fire.

Re:Silly Slashdot post (0)

madprof (4723) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555467)

MS have not made a good product. It absolutely not as good as iOS. No way.
I will repeat that again - Windows phones are not as good as iPhones.
One person I know got given a Lumia by MS at a conference. He used it, declared it not ready for prime time, and bought an iPhone 5. He would rather spend money on a decent device
I have seen this with a number of Windows phone users. All anecdotal but having used it a bit too, I am inclined to agree. And I think Apple are a bunch of control-freaks and would not buy an iPhone for that reason
But Windows phones are simply not "there" yet. Maybe next year?

Re:Silly Slashdot post (0)

iserlohn (49556) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555603)

"Android 4 on my Kindle Fire"

You kinda gave yourself away there. Keep on shilling.....

Re:Silly Slashdot post (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555349)

The question is really why does Slashdot allows retarded .NET "programmers" post on Slashdot.

Astroturfing (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553339)

Lumia phones are NOT SELLING WELL. Don't repeat astroturfing media BS.

Re:Astroturfing (2)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553423)

4M isn't bad for a new phone/os - you can shout and wave your little fist but there it is...

Re:Astroturfing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553731)

Nokia did not sell 4M phones with a new OS (WP7/8). It sold 4.4M smartphones which include Symbian OS.
Only 2.9M were Windows phone. The fact you've not gotten this shows you didn't really read the article. So I guess the other guy can wave his little fist cuz there it ain't.

Re:Astroturfing (4, Informative)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553939)

Nokia did not sell 4M phones with a new OS (WP7/8). It sold 4.4M smartphones which include Symbian OS. Only 2.9M were Windows phone.

You are incorrect, and have misunderstood the sentence that discussed the figures. They sold 4.4 million Windows Phone devices this quarter, compared to 2.9 million sold in the last quarter. It is a 50% improvement. From the article:

During the quarter, Nokia sold 4.4 million Lumia smartphones - a significant rise from the previous quarter, which featured sales of 2.9 million Lumia devices

Re:Astroturfing (5, Insightful)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555289)

The key numbers you have to know are that

  1. Nokia used to sell 4million smartphones every two weeks, not every three months.
  2. The current major competitors typically sell more than that on launch day
  3. RIM, which is just before it's new OS launch, and is clearly in trouble sold 6.9 Million phones; almost without any marketing.
  4. Nokia and Microsoft are putting down billions of Euros in subsidies for these phones and more in terms of marketing

150% of nothing is still nothing. A "significant rise" would behave been an increase of 15 to 30 million. That would still not put Nokia near the big league, but would suggest that they have a real chance of getting back.

If you take into account the fact that a huge proportion of these phones were bought by Nokia and Microsoft employees and partners for testing, what you come up with is an App market which has no prospect of expanding to become something close to an "eco system" within the next two to five years.

Re:Astroturfing (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553943)

Are you fucking stupid? Go read the article again.

Re:Astroturfing (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554051)

Yes, I'm stupid. I need to have sex to increase my intelligence. If I don't have sex often I become stupid. I haven't had sex for a week, so I've become quite dumb. Will you help me increase my intelligence? I prefer to have sex with busty 18-year old white girls. Please provide one for me. Leave her number and I'll give her a call.

Re:Astroturfing (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554353)

He's a horny 13 year old. He dreams of busty 18 year old females, but he'll settle for a bald old man breaking him down like a shotgun, then breech loading him. So far, that has been the totality of his sex life. Poor boy wanders around singing "Y M C A!"

Re:Astroturfing (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553951)

Call me (on your Windows 8 phone, maybe) when tech journalists learn the difference between sell-in and sell-through.

Channel stuffing... it's not just for Thanksgiving anymore!

Re:Astroturfing (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555371)

Except that windows phone is no longer new. It's been around for a while and it's in its third major iteration (7.0, 7.5, 8.0).

Re:Astroturfing (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555465)

A new phone/os?!? What are you talking about? 4.4M is the total sale of all the Lumia phones, I.e. from WP7 to WP8, from Lumia 510 to Lumia 920! Compare this with the 18M sold by the Galaxy S III, a single phone!

Re:Astroturfing (2)

thatkid_2002 (1529917) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553533)

They're not selling well when compared to iPhones or many Android phones.

However the product is actually quite good (try it, prove me wrong) but the problem is that people aren't willing to give it a shot.
Hopefully the new Nokia Lumia 620 helps crack the mid/low end markets - I doubt quality-wise it will have many competitors in the price bracket. If they went with Android they'd probably be king of the hill right now.

I'm thinking that Nokia will die if they don't downsize, but if they do downsize they have a chance of rebuilding.

Re:Astroturfing (1, Interesting)

monzie (729782) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554147)

I have a Nokia Lumia 800 ( It's basically the N9 with WP7.8 , minus the front facing camera )

It is a very good phone and I like it.

Any good apps on it? (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555393)

I wonder, what apps did you download for it, what do you use it for, apart from calling people and taking some casual snapshots? What does it make it worth more than a feature phone for you?

Re:Astroturfing (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555485)

It's not. It's missing almost all the good parts on the N9 - the software and the UX. It has all of the the bad parts - the stupid usb charger door that snaps off and causes the sim card to fall out, the non-expandable storage and the non-changable battery.

At least you don't need to reboot the phone when the sim card falls out on Meego.

It's only saving grace is the Nokia design (screen and overall look) which are pretty good.

Re:Astroturfing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554961)

Elop should have thought of that? If someething is not popular, and actually ANTIpopular, than, it should also be considered with OS choice?

Microsoft was doing asshole shit to others over course of decades, it finally comes back and bytes them in the ass. Elop didn't see it coming?
Wao, good job. I knew Nokia was finished, once I heard that QT support was dropped and they went full ahead to windows future. Or should I say, windows doom.
I had a few Nokias in my life. Last one i have is a dissapoitment.(cheap shit, that simply doesnt work 90% of time,, its not windows based, but it's irrelevant to me. It still is Nokia)

So they can suck my balls with Lumia all they want, I ain't buing this shit.

Re:Astroturfing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555389)

Nokia still can turn things around, but they will need some new ideas, and perhaps some changing in paths.

First, there is nothing wrong with Windows phones. They work. They are decently secure in the real world (I've not heard of any malware issues with them.) Their biggest two downsides are the relative lack of apps, and the locked-down architecture. Other companies sell more than one OS; it might not hurt Nokia to do similar.

Second, Nokia has the UI for the low end feature-phones down pat. Of course, smartphones are important, but there are times when one just needs a bare-bones device that can do voice and texts and not much more. Of course, there isn't any real money to be made in this sector compared to smartphones, but it is a strong point of the company, and shouldn't just be tossed.

Third, Nokia phones are well engineered. I'd say radio-wise, they come in second to Motorola for call quality. They have a decent feel, and even the inexpensive phones you find at a corner store don't feel "cheap".

Maybe Nokia should consider having more than one line of phone. Adding an Android line shouldn't be too difficult. If worried about physical security, have a bootloader unlock mechanism similar to HTC's where one signs up for a developer account, gets a decryption key, then uses that.

Of course, maybe Nokia should enter the Android market with some cool features. For example, ARM's TrustZone. Perhaps Nokia should use the "worlds" functionality to allow a phone to work in a BYOD mode. There is always the Open Virtualization project that could keep the hypervisor in the secure "world", and keep the "home" and "work" VMs separate. Of course, separate users does this functionality, but it is easier to sell separate VMs to the PHBs than try to explain the concept that this UID does not see this other UID's files no matter what.

Nokia might do well bringing enterprise elements which are somewhat lacking due to RIM being pushed out of that arena. Maybe Nokia might be able to eke out a market niche by designing an Android device from the ground up for business. Having multiple VMs would be useful for separation, but there is always adding other features, perhaps a MicroSDXC card [1] (so one could use something like Titanium Backup to copy apps in use to a safe spot.)

[1]: Newer phones either have a MicroSD card, or more space than 32 gigs of disk; I don't know of any that have both, although it would be extremely useful for backups or swapping out ROMs.

Re:Astroturfing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555511)

Their biggest two downsides are the relative lack of apps, and the locked-down architecture.

No. The two biggest downsides are the words "Microsoft" and "Windows". MS has spent 20 years building a reputation as the worst technology company in the world, both in terms of incompetence and and willingness to rip off the customer. Nobody is going to buy a phone made by them, not even if it shits rainbows and kittens.

Re:Astroturfing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555573)

First, there is nothing wrong with Windows phones. They work. They are decently secure in the real world (I've not heard of any malware issues with them.)

Why would malware writers bother writing exploits for a platform nobody uses?

Re:Astroturfing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553659)

they sold 4.4 million in a quarter where they didn't release till the second half of it. It may not be selling iphone or s3 levels of well but those are actually damn good numbers.

Re:Astroturfing (1)

networkzombie (921324) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553777)

I'm on Verizon. I've been waiting for the Lumina 920 and will buy one as soon as it is available. Where is it?

Re:Astroturfing (1)

madprof (4723) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555477)

The Lumia 920 is a brick of a phone. Don't get one. Get another Windows device if you must but not a 920.

Re:Astroturfing (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554001)

Lumia phones are NOT SELLING WELL. Don't repeat astroturfing media BS.

Compare this to previous quarterly sales figures for the iPhone [wikipedia.org] and it is not a disastrous as you want to believe. It is certainly not bad enough to make any claim of Lumia sales to have only come from Astroturfers.

Re:Astroturfing (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554369)

Unless, of course, we assume that there are two million astroturfers out there who each bought two phones. You call it a stretch, I call it a possibility. ;^)

Re:Astroturfing (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554395)

That is not a good comparison. The smartphone market exploded. Nokia sold 30 million Symbian smartphones in the quarter before the platform was declared dead. The declared plan was to replace the Symbian smartphones with Windows Phone smartphones in two years. The two years are almost over, the smartphone market doubled (or so), and Nokia sells only 4.4 million Lumia phones. This is a complete failure.

Re:Astroturfing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554889)

Yes, it is disastrous. Android sells 4.4 million phones in three days.

Yes, three days.

The question doesn't remain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555397)

"The question remains whether Nokia should have gone with Windows Phone in the first place"

Nokia should not have gone with Windows phone in first place period.

I guess most didn't know what they were buying! (2)

bogaboga (793279) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553357)

Yes, I believe most of those that bought Nokia's Windows Phones didn't know they were buying into Microsoft's phone OS.

Most of them must have bought Nokia phones because the word "NOKIA" featured prominently on the phones. Not because they featured Windows Phone 8.

All this reminds me of those early Net-book days running Linux, remember?

Re:I guess most didn't know what they were buying! (1)

Telvin_3d (855514) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553467)

You are radically over estimating consumer awareness of anything that is not an iPhone. Most of the people who bought Nokia's Windows Phone did so because they walked into the store and a salesperson recommended it.

Re:I guess most didn't know what they were buying! (5, Interesting)

morcego (260031) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553755)

Actually, in Brazil the Nokia brand carries a lot of weight. People will buy a phone because it says Nokia here. True or not, around here people believe they need to buy Nokia if they want a phone they don't need to charge every days (sometimes, twice a day).

I have no reason to doubt it is the same in at least some other countries. And regardless, Brazilian cellphone market is huge.

Re:I guess most didn't know what they were buying! (2)

Jesus_666 (702802) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555537)

True. In Germany, back before smartphones there were essentially Nokia and a few other companies no one cared about. Nokias were tanks that fit in your pocket, almost indestructible and with long battery life. In 2010, Nokia still had the reputation of being a solid choice (if somewhat old-fashioned as Meego was only starting to pick up steam and people were still associating Nokia with Symbian). I can't say much beyond that as I can only tell about the techie population but most techies I know avoid the company's products since Elop happened. As far as I can tell, Samsung and Apple have become the new Nokia: If you use Macs then Apple is the first manufacturer you consider when planning to buy a smartphone while Samsung is if you're a Windows or Linux user.

Nokia is only considered if you have already decided to buy a WinMo phone - and even that may be shaky due to Microsoft invalidating the entire current Lumia line shortly after release by making WinMo 8 incompatible with existing devices (apparently without telling Nokia how to make compatible ones before launching the OS) and making WinMo 8 apps incompatible with WinMo 7, making Nokia's smartphone unit stuck with nothing but futureless legacy phones for the second time in two years. I can imagine that even people who consciously bought a Lumia in 2010/11 would be wary about WinMo and/or Nokia after that.

I think that relatively soon even average people will realize that Nokia is no longer the mobile phone giant it was. Hell, marketing alone could take care of that; it's been months since I've seen a Nokia ad but Apple, Samsung and HTC ads are all over the place.

Re:I guess most didn't know what they were buying! (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555549)

It used to be the same here in the UK. Until the Motorola Razr (the original), I don't think there was a single other phone brand which people would seek out by name- Nokia was THE phone brand.

Right up until the iPhone, Nokia was still an extremely popular brand. Post-iPhone there was a lot of criticism of Symbian "looking tired", although it was still popular enough. Post-Elop, I think the brand is more or less dead to people now.

Re:I guess most didn't know what they were buying! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555459)

You are radically under estimating the brand value of nokia. It's on par if not more known and liked then apple in most of the Latin America and Asia.

It took a shitload of hits lately, but it's still extremely high up. They bought themselves a lot of clout with projects like bringing natal care to mothers in rural third world, and they ran dozens of these (and still do to an extent).

Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (3, Informative)

Pope Raymond Lama (57277) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553363)

Re:Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553499)

I read that and I don't get it. What exactly caused Nokia's death? How exactly did Nokia's CEO fuck up so badly?

Re:Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (4, Insightful)

mirix (1649853) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554551)

He killed the existing OSes, and bet it all on windows phone. Which was a losing proposition, apparently. He was of microsoft stock, which leads people to believe it was malice causing this decision.

Prior to that there were two 'smart' platforms:

Maemo - Linux based, still fairly infantile but showed a lot of promise.

S60 (symbian) - kind of long in the tooth, long lineage. Designed ground up for phones.. great battery life.
Nokia had recently opened most of it up, and was moving to to support Qt applications, which was going to make things easier.
The most recent release was supposed to be quite decent, from what I've heard.

Anyway, then elop announced they're both dead, and no one develops for dead platforms...

Re:Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (1)

danomatika (1977210) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553561)

TL;DR

Looking at the last graph, how much of the drop in Nokia is due to Windows Phone adoption versus the overall increase in people buying smartphones? The graph make it seem pretty clear, but dosen't part of Nokias loss/growth of rivals circa 2010 show more that smart phones are becoming cheaper, more accessible, and more people are buying them over Nokias bread and butter smart phones? If that's the case, it can be argued choosing an Android/iOS smartphone OS analog like Windows Phone was the only way to stem the loss of dumb phone sales.

Re:Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553893)

but elop killed the in house smartphone OS, bought windows 7 to nokia, hook line &sinker, and after nokia paid good money getting that OS on their phones, micro$oft wrecked that nokia product line by announcing windows 8 quarters befor the OS was available, and that fraction of cudtomers that buy the latest wizz bang toy, shut their wallets and waited, or bought the iphone 5.

Re:Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554151)

If I read it correctly, this data is all about smartphones, not dumb phones. Nokia's name is still very respected but now, it looks like two companies. One is practically a division of Mircrosoft, the other is the proud Finnish company we all love.

Re:Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (2)

blind biker (1066130) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555025)

Elop declared Symbian dead. He basically told everybody: "do not, I repeat DO NOT but our Symbian smartphones, we're closing the Ovi appstore, we're abandoning all development, and the platform has no future. We're going with Windows Phone. Yes, we're also junking Qt."

He also declared Maemo/Meego dead, even more emphatically.

Re:Oner must be pretty high to be in doubt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554623)

Oh here we go, Tomi Ahonen, Nice balanced viewpoint once again from the disgruntled ex-Nokia employee

Do consumers care about the OS? (2)

El Micko (118401) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553389)

Aside from technically literate consumers who might actually care whether their phone is powered by IOS, Symbian, Windows, or Android, would most consumers be able to meaningfully discriminate between these phone operating systems?

Wouldn't most consumers merely want a phone that works and some working apps for Facebook, Twitter, YouTube etc?

Re:Do consumers care about the OS? (1)

donaldm (919619) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554167)

Aside from technically literate consumers who might actually care whether their phone is powered by IOS, Symbian, Windows, or Android, would most consumers be able to meaningfully discriminate between these phone operating systems?

I think the best way of answering this is to look at the Android graphical interface and compare it to the iPhone GUI and while not identical there is significant similarly for customers to move from one to the other with very little extra learning so basically the human interfaces are functionally similar with nicely designed and separated icons which are labelled underneath with a comfortably readable font. When you look at the Microsoft interface which is "tile based" you see different sized tile icons with very little space (effectively a black line a few pixels wide) between them and the labelling is internal to each tile.

When a customer looks at purchasing a smart-phone I would be fairly comfortable in saying that they are going to prefer the iPhone and Android interfaces over the Microsoft interface however the saying Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" is valid and some would prefer the Microsoft tile interface over the externally labelled icons of the other smart phones.

From a personal perspective I think an icon that is well separated and has the labelling underneath is much more human readable in that it can be recognisable at a glance compared to a variable sized tile which needs to have its meaning read within the tile so much greater care has to be made in designing the tile so as not to obscure the tile labelling. Of course there will be people who disagree with me but externally labelled well separated icons on GUI's have been around for well over 30 years (years before Microsoft Windows) now and I have never heard of anyone complaining about them although I have heard of people complaining about too many icons on their desktop especially when talking about Microsoft Windows.

Re:Do consumers care about the OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555417)

They don't, but people, who they ask for help, they do...

is symbian still viable? (1)

metalmaster (1005171) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553391)

Nokia has given up, but is there still a dev community for it? Are consumers sticking to Symbian for some app that doesnt exist on other platforms?

Re:is symbian still viable? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553459)

More likely, they're consumers that just want a phone that can do calls and send and receive texts. Dumbphones are still pretty popular, and they've got to run on something.

Re:is symbian still viable? (5, Informative)

monzie (729782) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553579)

I agree. There are many folks who can live without Instagram [1] or Angry Birds.
A good/decent camera with "social stuff" like Facebook and Twitter and solid battery life is all that many people require.

Here in India Symbian still sells, sells well and people still like it, Here are some reasons that I can think of

1. Symbian phones have better battery life than most other smartphones. In a country where people travel a lot and power outages are common, a long batter life is a important. And when you ask and Indian what "good battery life" is , you'll get the answer: "2-3 days".

2. It does the job. SMS, WhatsApp, Skype, Twitter , Facebook are all the apps that people use. Using iFart apps has not really caught on. The downside is people don't use Yelp or Foursquare or GroupOn all that much in India. People just call up friends and ask. Sometimes that's easier and better :)

3. Indians hate paying for apps. Period.

Of course mine is a country of a BILLION people so generalizations are impossible But having stayed in this country all my life and having owned muliple iOS/Android devices ( currently evaluating WP 8).

Footnotes:
[1] = More people can live without Instagram, especially thanks to its new TOS

Lumias don't sell well (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553409)

The anti-Elop camp emerged the moment he has announced the Windows strategy in Feb 2011 and a lot of people predicted Nokia's downfall at that time. And in no way do the Lumia phones sell well. Not by any standard. 4.4 million Lumia phone is just pathetic. The Nokia N8 (Symbian) alone sold almost 4 million in its first quarter (Q4 2010) and the smartphone market was much smaller at that time. It is also a lie that Nokia was failing before the strategy was switched to Windows Phone. The smartphone unit had increasing sales, sold more phones than any competitor, and was profitable.

Not to be confused with (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553425)

The Sybian. [wikipedia.org] Yeah, go ahead, mod this OH FUCCCCCCCCCK! FUCCCCCCCCCK YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH! okia should have gone with Windows Phone in the first place, or embraced an alternate platform such as Android; an anti-Elop camp has emerged in recent months, arguing that Symbian was still a viable platform before Elop consigne

Hey slashdot: (-1, Offtopic)

larry bagina (561269) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553513)

why do you repost this slash-bi-curious / slash cloud shit on the front page?

Why not make Nerval's lobster an editor so we can ignore this shit?

Which bar was RIM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553529)

The article was one big, broad-brushed logical fallacy after another. With cherry picked facts.

Some of the facts like "2010 best quarter ever, nothing wrong with Nokia" could be said of Research in Motion/Blackberry.

I have no opinion on any of this and no position, but that article was just a tunnel-vision rant using a broad-brushed bar graph as the sole factual piece of evidence and a bar graph can show anything.

Anyone else read that as (-1, Offtopic)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553537)

Anyone else read that as Sybian sells millions?

Windows phones are junk by default (2, Interesting)

jonfr (888673) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553645)

Windows phones are not user friendly. There user screen cannot be properly configured (as with other mobile phones today). They have no options of setting a background image. They are hard to configure, missing features that have existed for years on Symbian, Android and Apple. It is battery unfriendly by nature (a lot of power usage).

For this reason I am never going to buy a Windows phone. I rather move to Android. But I would prefer to continue to use Symbian. But that is not a option I am afraid of. Since Nokia has almost been destroyed by the Microsoft zetaloid that was hired by Nokia board few years ago. But he did work for Microsoft, so he going for Windows Mobile is no surprise at all.

Nokia is going to be missed if it goes bankrupt. The lesson here is however is that never go into a deal with Microsoft. It is going to ruin our company in a record amount of time. It is a fact and a rule. I did see a list of companies that Microsoft made bankrupt with there bad deals. Too bad I can't find at the moment.

Re:Windows phones are junk by default (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554095)

You're definition of easy is highly suspect, for actually getting to your information wp blows android and iPhone away.

Posted ac as I can't be stuffed logging in.

Windows phones are junk (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555059)

wp blows android and iPhone away.

Posted ac as I can't be stuffed logging in.

Its not true. If it was you would have been able to make a logged in post.

Re:Windows phones are junk by default (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554163)

How is this poorly written, rambling, lacking-in-citations-and-often-just-wrong ("user screen cannot be properly configured"?!) post moded anywhere but down?

This is relevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553751)

Who posts this shit? Of course they're still using Symbian on entry level phones for Africa and poor ass countries

Re:This is relevant (1)

ToThoseOfUs (2377416) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554565)

but they aren't using symbian on entry level phones. That is where their series40 operating system dominates. i think the last symbian phone made was the 808 which came out at the beginning of last year as basically a tech demo for their new camera sensor.

Any new nokia phone out there is either windows, or series 40.

There are still older phones out there running symbian, and they are most certainly smart phones. In some ways android and iOS are only just catching up.

That betng said, my next phone will be Android, after Elop killed the symbian ecosystem.

What about Nokia's other OS? (4, Interesting)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553807)

They say numbers about Windows 8 and Symbian, but what about Meego/N9? If a platform that they declared dead and buried basically at the moment of launching it, in just one phone, performed in a not so different way than Win8 phones, that would be a big message. There were some numbers around N9 sales for Q4 2011 [osnews.com] and Q1 2012 [blogs.com] that could point that it was selling better than Lumias, but not sure how it evolved. What is possible is that if Sailfish or Ubuntu gets ported to it (have a good shape for the swipe gestures used in those incoming mobile OSs) it could be even start selling back.

Anyway, speaking about dead and buried OSs, Microsoft killed and buried the Window OS bundled in most Lumia Phones when announced Windows Phone 8, saying that present and close enough in time Lumias won't be able to run it, and that apps for Windows 7.x won't be compatible with it neither. Is not so amazing that it sells badly, even for being a Windows phones. You had to wait till Lumia 920 to have a Windows 8.

Look, Elop can't have non-WP7 success (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554061)

Having betted the company on Windows Phone 7, he cannot have a success with anything but Windows Phone 7. That means that any success N9 had, Elop would have taken steps to kill it. Likewise the Symbian continued sales are a bit of an embarrassment to him, given, as he did, talk the phone down, both in a public presentation and in private burning platform emails to employees.

It's very easy for a CEO to make failure, one swipe of a pen is all it takes. So it's very easy for him to make Symbian and N9 fail enough to make Windows Phones 4 million units seem good.

So, never mind he's basically killed the company with a non selling phone, he will ensure that no other phone succeeds from the company and then point to the failure of those [a failure he created] to say, well at least we did better than symbian.

Welcome to management 101, it's not about the company success, it's about the boss ego.

Re:Look, Elop can't have non-WP7 success (3, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554323)

It's not boss ego, it's downright fraud: he did it for Microsoft's benefit, not Nokia's.

Re:Look, Elop can't have non-WP7 success (1)

recoiledsnake (879048) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554933)

Stop with this dumb crap, if he was really doing that, he could and would've been fired in an instant. MS pays Nokia 1B/year in much needed money to aid in the transition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_directors [wikipedia.org]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorma_Ollila [wikipedia.org]

Golden Handcuffs (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555139)

MS pays Nokia 1B/year in much needed money to aid in the transition.

...and I suspect that is personally why everyone is currently going along with this madness,if they break the agreement with Microsoft now...Microsoft will want there money back. In real terms however the last figures I saw of costs of transition to Windows Phone was 10Billion...the cost in terms of staff, output, brand obviously make this figure a lot higher.

Re:Look, Elop can't have non-WP7 success (2)

Rogerborg (306625) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555589)

Calm down, dear. When - not if - Nokia go under, we'll know. I expect Elop to bungie straight back into a senior role at MS, with a corner office constructed entirely of hookers and beer.

Nokia is Microsoft. Jolla is the actual Nokia now. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555591)

The real developers of Meego and everything around it, left Nokia the very day, the Elop trojan horse infected Nokia, to form Jolla.

Sailfish is everbody you should look for now. Hell, they even provide Sailfish support for the N9!

The only thing I hope, is that they make a powerful smartphone with an actual keyboard, that isn't just available in China. Because then they will swim in our money!

I have had both. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42553949)

They are a waste of money. iOS and Android are better options.

no way (4, Insightful)

terec (2797475) | about a year and a half ago | (#42553989)

Symbian was popular, but it was a disaster in terms of technology: hard to program with one of the worst mobile user interfaces ever conceived. Nokia needed to change to something else. Windows 8 is actually not that bad in principle, but it was too little too late, and Microsoft has failed to establish it as a viable and popular platform for app developers.

Nokia should have gone with a dual Android (cash cow) and Meego (risky bet, high payoff) strategy. Nokia could have made fantastic Android phones. By now, they have lost their sales channels and their brand name, and lots of other companies have figured out how to make good hardware, so they are basically toast.

Re:no way (4, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555043)

Symbian was popular, but it was a disaster in terms of technology: hard to program with one of the worst mobile user interfaces ever conceived. Nokia needed to change to something else.

...but had a solution in place going forward with a unifying toolkit "QT" and two replacement in-house OS's Meego and Meltemi.

6.6 M units sold on Q4 XMAS quarter? Disaster! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554445)

To sell 6.6 million smartphones on Q4 XMAS quarter is a disaster.

1.5 Million Android Daily, 25 Million Apples in1/4 (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554973)

To sell 6.6 million smartphones on Q4 XMAS quarter is a disaster.

Even if you add two OS's together Windows/Symbian competitively it looks like Elops strategy of choosing a Windows Phone OS *only* over *any* other strategy looks stupid. In real terms it has taken the smartphone unit from being 2x as large as Apple and 4x as large as Symbian, and relegated Nokia to 10th largest smartphone manufacturer.

If you didn't understand the sales figures. (-1, Troll)

NemoinSpace (1118137) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554601)

The Market figured it out for you NOK up 18%. Windows phone is going to be around for awhile and probably make most AC's of this Slashdot crowd very angry. Don't ask me why, I used to like Linux and the techy things you can do with it and learn from it. But while compiling my first redhat kernel 2.2.5-15 was fun so many years ago, The number of asshole "linux genious's" with chips on their shoulders has become too much to wade through. But like I said most of them are AC's. If I they ever tried this crap on me in real life, it would end badly for them. and they know it.

Re:If you didn't understand the sales figures. (-1, Troll)

NemoinSpace (1118137) | about a year and a half ago | (#42554621)

Oh I forgot to mention, they probably emulate their asshole hero Linus Torvolds who take great care in treating people like shit and going off on tirades. I've saved up an ass kicking for that jackass too.

Linus Torvolds is Ass Kicking (0)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555027)

hero Linus Torvolds

asshole "linux genious's"(sic) consider Linus Torvols a hero(sic) because he got there through meritocracy. Ironically in the context of this article by creating a kernel that powers 75% of the opposition, and by releasing a new revision of it ever 3 1/2 months like clockwork [and in reference to your comments he does so by keeping a tight ship].

Ironically your heros whether they be Bill of Steve were both considered bastards, but even their achievements get acknowledged here.

The sad fact is whether Linus *kicks cats* (he doesn't) is nothing compared to his achievements. In reality they shouldn't matter anyway, he can wear his underwear on his head, stick pencils up his nose and say "wibble". Its the kernel that matters.

Re:If you didn't understand the sales figures. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555399)

If I they ever tried this crap on me in real life, it would end badly for them.
and they know it.

If your cowardly ass ever said that to Linus's face it would end very badly for you. Even Linus kicks the shit out of retards.

Nokia disaster (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554739)

This is terrible, and Nokia is on its way to bankruptcy.

Mobile analyst Tomi Ahonen: "Nokia preliminary market share for Q4 is 2.8% (on my target market total unit sales number Q4 of 240 million smartphones). This is down from 3.6% in Q3 and 12.4% one year ago."

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/01/nokia-surprises-us-by-releasing-q4-smartphone-results-early-so-3-for-q4-and-5-for-full-year-2012-and.html

Sybian? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42554911)

Oh. Symbian, not Sybian. You had me going there for a second.

Aldi (1)

SilenceBE (1439827) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555243)

They are selling that well in the benelux countries that Nokia is dumping Lumia phones on aldi, a discount supermarket chain. A model that sold for 499 euro six month ago for 199 euro. I still wouldn't want it for that price to be honest.

OS does not matter (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year and a half ago | (#42555351)

The OS doesnt matter. it is the UI that matters.

Re:OS does not matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42555439)

You may laugh at watching Steve Ballmer chanting "Developers! Developers! Developers!" in that old video but he isn't wrong. A smartphone OS with no developers making applications for it is doomed. This is why the OS matters. What good is your OS with a stellar user experience if nobody develops apps for it? Smartphones these days are general-purpose computers in their own right and all such platforms have always and ever lived and died by the availability of applications for them.

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