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Australian Spy Agency Seeks Permission To Hack Third-Party Computers

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the you-are-doing-it-wrong dept.

Australia 210

New submitter LordLucless writes "ASIO, Australia's spy agency, is pushing for the ability to lawfully hijack peoples' computers — even if they are not under suspicion of any crime. They seek the ability to gain access to a third party's computer in order to facilitate gaining access to the real target — essentially using any person's personal computer as a proxy for their hacking attempts. The current legislation prohibits any action by ASIO that, among other things, interferes with a person's legitimate use of their computer. Conceivably, over-turning this restriction would give ASIO the ability to build their own bot-net of compromised machines. Perhaps inevitably, they say these changes are required to help them catch terrorists."

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How do we stop them? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42570935)

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

The only thing I can think of at the moment is to use Linux and make sure I've closed all uncessary ports...?

What else? I am not a security buff. Encryption doesn't seem particularly useful, since the problem here isn't that ASIO is accessing our files (although they would probably definitely be doing that too), but that they're using our bandwidth and processing resources.

Re:How do we stop them? (2)

Scarletdown (886459) | about 2 years ago | (#42570985)

Hopefully, someone with some significant power there in the Australian government cordially invites them to piss off.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about 2 years ago | (#42571121)

If you read the article. it's a senior member of the government proposing the legislation.

Re:How do we stop them? (2)

Scarletdown (886459) | about 2 years ago | (#42571451)

I did actually have a look at the article, and saw that it was Australia's AG that is proposing this. Surely there are more people higher up the government food chain than the AG?

Re:How do we stop them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571699)

The courts... Which is why they want legislative support.

Otherwise if they get caught working for the RIAA and Hollywood, like happened in New Zealand, they might get asked difficult questions.

Re: How do we stop them? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571793)

Not really the AG is pretty high up. She is a totalitarian bitch though, along with Conroy they plan to make Australia worse than China. I am honestly considering moving countries because both major parties are evil.
I really hope the Green party have something to say about this, they seem to be the only voice of reason in regards to anything in relation to privacy and government powers.
Time for a massive change in politics in Australia.

Re:How do we stop them? (5, Insightful)

davester666 (731373) | about 2 years ago | (#42571835)

You can use this argument to do anything

-open and read every piece of mail
-listen to every phone call
-attach gps monitors to every vehicle
-install and record video cameras everywhere
-require every computing device to have a backdoor so the gov't can search through it unhindered
-stop and search everyone in a given area

The gov't would potentially 'catch a terrorist' with any of these things. Obviously, they must be implemented immediately.

What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" ? (5, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 2 years ago | (#42571133)

Last time when we talk about Soviet Union and/or China and/or Cuba and/or Iran and/or North Korea or East Germany, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

And they deserved it, for those countries never about the human rights of their citizens, and those countries spied on their own citizens.

Nowadays, countries that are supposed to be "FREE", such as Australia, New Zealand, United Kingdom and United States are becoming more and more like those rogue states.

What the fuck has happened to the spirit of "FREEDOM" of the free world?

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571291)

Last time when we talk about Soviet Union and/or China and/or Cuba and/or Iran and/or North Korea or East Germany, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

I seriously doubt that.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (4, Funny)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 2 years ago | (#42571323)

Pal, Australia. What does the word conjure up? Think. I know you had history classes in school. Australia was a penal colony. Meaning, they were rogues before they ever got to Australia. They are EXPECTED to be rogue! Putting the words "Australia" and "rogue" in the same sentence is redundant and repetitive.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571561)

No, the word you are thinking of is "alcoholic", not "rogue".

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (5, Informative)

stymy (1223496) | about 2 years ago | (#42571889)

It sounds like you need to brush up on your own history classes -- unless they were in the US, in which cases they made some important omissions. Such as the fact that England started shipping its inmates to Australia only after the American Revolution made them lose their favorite penal colony. Prior to then, many punishments for criminals consisted of them having to spend several years or their whole lives in the US.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571349)

What the fuck has happened to the spirit of "FREEDOM" of the free world?
The UN doesn't believe in a free world. How's it feel to get fucked by the powers that be? Welcome to 1984.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571463)

Exactly how an Australian government action morphs into a UN action isn't clear UNLESS we have yet another Jesus rode dinosaurs 6000 years ago, the earth is flat, cutting corporate taxes while increasing personal income taxes will reduce the deficit, black helicopter rightard speaking

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571351)

, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

Reds under the bed, eh?

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (2)

Yaa 101 (664725) | about 2 years ago | (#42571475)

It got sold away under your ass...

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (2, Informative)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 2 years ago | (#42571481)

Last time when we talk about Soviet Union and/or China and/or Cuba and/or Iran and/or North Korea or East Germany, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

Well, technically, Iran has never been a "rouge nation". On the other hand, that's an apt description for all the communist nations...

On the other hand, if you really meant "ROGUE nation", then Iran would also fit nicely.

Why do so many supposedly educated people get "rouge" and "rogue" confused?

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (3, Funny)

Pf0tzenpfritz (1402005) | about 2 years ago | (#42571703)

Brian damage, perhaps?

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42571809) to keep the loonies on the path.

(and that means, you and me!)

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (2)

Phrogman (80473) | about 2 years ago | (#42571505)

The Spirit of Freedom has been bought and sold to the mega-corporations and their client governments. Privacy doesn't need to be dead, but its more advantageous to the business community if it is, therefore things like this proposed legislation to "Combat Terrorism" - i.e. to combat those whom the Media Industry wants to close down and prevent from copying their copyright works.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (3, Insightful)

Archfeld (6757) | about 2 years ago | (#42571707)

No, buying is a bad practice in the corporate world. It has just been co-opted by the DiscoverCard Spirit of Freedom(TM), brought to you in part by McDonald's, and by the generous donation of the Monsanto Corporation. They are "Loving It"

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42571797)

freedom was ok when there weren't so many things the folks in charge could invade and bug or tap.

but now, there is so much out there to bug and snoop on, well, you can't blame a kid for being hungry in a candy store, can you?


and they have most of the power to do whatever they want. in fact, 'asking' is just a formality, these days. if you are on a network, folks in charge think they have a right to your data.

THIS is the brave new world. huxley had zero idea about what the real future was going to be like.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" (1)

ikarys (865465) | about 2 years ago | (#42571919)


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571145)

i doubt much of the australian government has any idea who they are even dealing with

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571185)

I assure you they do. The official cracking industry employs a few very smart computer security people.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571659)

you're assurance isn't reassuring. i doubt most politicians know what asio does on the hacking front. they probably know asio is a security organisation with a website and a building

Re:How do we stop them? (4, Interesting)

spazdor (902907) | about 2 years ago | (#42571153)

Or, if the ASIO really needs the resources it says it needs, let them go to the Australian people with their hat in their hands and ask for volunteers to run an Aussie-Government 'network agent' on their Internet-connected PCs to help them catch child molesters and plane-bombers for the good of the homeland, and if appeals to patriotism don't do the trick, let them offer money, and we'll find out how much a person's Internet privacy sells for on the open market.

Re:How do we stop them? (4, Funny)

sabri (584428) | about 2 years ago | (#42570989)

I am an Australian.

Find the nearest Equadorian embassy and request political asylum :-)

Re:How do we stop them? (-1, Troll)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571173)

Find the nearest Equadorian embassy and request political asylum :-)

or just burn all your aussie id, hire a boat and go find a navy vessel off the north west coast

you get more government benefits as an illegal immigrant in australian detention centres than you do as an australian citizen (unless you're aboriginal or a torres strait islander, in which case you're set for life)

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571239)

Find the nearest Equadorian embassy and request political asylum :-)

or just burn all your aussie id, hire a boat and go find a navy vessel off the north west coast

you get more government benefits as an illegal immigrant in australian detention centres than you do as an australian citizen (unless you're aboriginal or a torres strait islander, in which case you're set for life)

This post is racist, it is factually incorrect, and it is pretty much just a paraphrase of one of the moronic soundbites coming out of Tony "Stop the Boats" Abbott's mouth.

Kindly take your bullshit somewhere less enlightened. Slashdot doesn't need your taint.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571645)

i hate tony "budgie smuggler" abbott, and i'm not racist because i hate all races equally

go take your politically motivated garbage elsewhere

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

epyT-R (613989) | about 2 years ago | (#42571765)

So it's only ok to have racist government policy that gives entitlements to certain races and not others, but not ok when someone complains about it on the internet?

You've drunk too much PC kool-aid.

Re:How do we stop them? (4, Interesting)

jamesh (87723) | about 2 years ago | (#42571025)

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

Over here! We have a troublemaker!

Seriously though, I wouldn't worry too much. All the hardening you already do to you computer to keep the existing viruses out will be just fine. The only possible problem will be that the antivirus vendors may be persuaded to ignore government sanctioned malware, but such a thing will be self correcting when the malware authors figure out how to mimic government malware.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

GoodNewsJimDotCom (2244874) | about 2 years ago | (#42571347)

I've been concerned Microsoft already has back doors into computers already with the whole warrant-less wiretapping in the US. Maybe AUS will force MS and Apple into compliance and force backdoors onto computers. Then as governments are known to do lately, just adopt a law that is 'working' in another nation. They don't try this stuff as much in the US first anymore because we had massive public backlash against SOPA/PIPA. Maybe its time for the people AUS to stand up now. I always think it is a beautiful thing when the people stand up against bad laws and stop them.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571041)

Most likely they will instrument your operating system or hardware in your absence so look at ways to keep it secure while you are away, or keep it with you at all times. Remember that they could log keystrokes with a simple device inserted into your machine.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about 2 years ago | (#42571221)

So it's okay for Conroy to ban technology company Huawei from supplying equipment for the NBN over spying concerns yet it's okay for our government to target its own citizens. Hmmm...

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571315)

Yeah because we elected him.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

drankr (2796221) | about 2 years ago | (#42571051)

Why aren't you using Linux already?

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571177)

don't use windows as your os for starters

Re:How do we stop them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571419)

I think the days of remote admin exploits for Windows are long gone. Or at least they are on par with what's available for Linux or Mac OS X.. which is very rare nowadays. Or do you have evidence that current Windows versions are inherently buggy on that front?

That beings said, no system can withstand dumb users clicking where they shouldn't.

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571651)

windows isn't overly buggy... it's just inherently insecure

Re:How do we stop them? (4, Informative)

bakuun (976228) | about 2 years ago | (#42571295)

How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

ASIO would come in the same way that normal cybercriminals would, so it's a matter of standard common-sense security precautions.

If you're using Windows, keep it up-to-date and use a decent antivirus program - Microsoft's security essentials works fine. Don't click links in emails from strange people. Don't open email attachments from strange people. In terms of software, a good rule, originally by Brian Krebs I believe, is not to install software if you didn't search for that software in the first place (with other words, don't install if it comes to you by email, or if it pops up when you're browsing around generally, etc etc).

In addition to the operating system, a few other pieces of software are fairly important to keep up-to-date: Your internet browser. Adobe flash and reader, if you use those. Java (or better yet, disable Java in the browser completely).

Re:How do we stop them? (1)

whoever57 (658626) | about 2 years ago | (#42571629)

If you're using Windows, keep it up-to-date and use a decent antivirus program -

I you are using Windows, then the simple answer is that you can never be sure that your machine is secure. You can never know if Microsoft has put a backdoor into the system that hides itself.

Even if you are using anti-virus, it is ineffective. I have seen 2 machines compromised in the last year that both had fully up-to-date antivirus. Only a couple of days after the compromise did the anti-virus detect the issue (in the first case, I tracked down the executable and submitted it to a site that tests against multiple anti-virus engines and most did not detect it until a few days later).

Re:How do we stop them? (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42571815)

antivirus will NEVER catch government approved bugs!

if you think about it, you'll understand.

and you won't ever trust antivirus apps again. they only block the things 'theyre allowed to'.

and yes, I'm serious. this has been covered several times before.

Re:How do we stop them? (3, Informative)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571557)

install linux (i prefer debian stable, but that's just me)

closed all uncessary ports

that's usually a function of your router, but linux can also be used for routing functions using an iptables script... here's an example that you can execute from /etc/rc.local (on a debian machine anyway):

echo -n "Loading iptables firewall..."
iptables -F
iptables -P FORWARD DROP
iptables -P INPUT DROP
iptables -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -j DROP
echo "done."
exit 0

not the most locked down firewall that you can make with iptables, but its probably a similar configuration to what you would find in most off-the-shelf routers by default. you only need to add more exceptions if you run servers of sorts (ports 80 and 443 for httpd, 25 and 110 for mail, 53 for dns, etc). you can also nat between networks with iptables.

edit /etc/hosts.deny and make the only non-commented line ALL:ALL, and make sure there is nothing (except comments) in /etc/hosts.allow

also be sure to configure all users except human users and root so that shell is /bin/false in /etc/passwd and /etc/passwd-

also, don't install any programs from sources other than official repositories (except for things like flash from adobe website) and don't install garbage apps and avoid torrrent clients which are a breeding ground for malware for all operating systems. i tend to favor stable repositories (with auto security repos update), with many vulnerabilities being due to inadequately tested updates. despite the hype, the testing aspects of both waterfall and extreme programming methodologies are rarely followed in open source projects, with the most common being the "code and test" or (derogative) "cowboy coding" methodology.

use shields up @ [] to verify if you have any exposed ports

also, to protect your wifi network(s), only use wpa2 (don't use wep) and set up an access list so that only registered mac addresses will be able to connect

always use https for online banking and make sure the top and 2nd level domains are what you expect (most modern browsers highlight them)

some of this stuff is less to do with asio and more to do with security in general. no doubt other /. users will chime in if i've said something wrong or if i've missed something obvious. there's also other security things like wheel group, and there are hardening tutorials for most major distros out there. debian has a good one here: [] but for controlling remote access, the best way is to harden your browser settings (uninstall/disable any unneccesary plugins, disable java, etc), tighten up your wifi security and make sure no router ports are open

the internet is a scary place, but most viruses and malware is unintentionally installed by users from a web browser or email client (in windows). hacking is a problem, but its only serious if you're hosting. look up how a router works and that may help cool some of your fears. grc has a good info page here: []
summary: think of a nat router as sort of being like a one-way valve, so you can make requests out but only responses to your requests can come back in (ininvited requests are dropped)
if your computer is part of a botnet, there's a good chance that you unintentionally installed software from your web browser or email (or junkware/shareware) that caused it. malware rarely if ever gets onto your pc on its own, and also having malware or virus infected files on your machine is ok as long as they aren't opened/executed. linux filesystem permissions help with this somewhat. i noticed that when i downloadd executables off the web, their executable permission isn't set so even if i have wine installed it won't run unless i manually set the file execute permission.

be careful of anyone who claims to be a computer security expert (there are few and those that likely are don't need to justify or brag like that). i'm definitely not, and what i've said here definitely isn't the be all and end all of any level of security, but because i run a web server i'm probably a little more security conscious than the average user. probably those at the forefront of security are the hackers that everyone tries (often in vain) to protect themselves from or the malware writers (not script kiddies, but the folks that write the tools that the script kiddies use, like nmap), but there are some respected people like bruce schneier (

Re:How do we stop them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571745)

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

- set up (make sure it's hosted out of the country and doesn't use WordPress or a similarly insecure product).
- solicit advice from local experts.
- sell ads.
- profit!
- use your new wealth to move to a less oppressive country (such as Somalia?).

Insanity (2)

xtal (49134) | about 2 years ago | (#42570941)

So what happens when one of these third parties is detained as a spy, if their compromised computer is detected at a border? Depending on where you go, taking a machine with you sounds like it could actually put your life - or at least, your freedom - at risk?

Have we given up even maintaining the facade of the rule of law now?

Huh... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42570947)

You know... you start trespassing on peoples property and eventually you find some people who do the same back at you.

I don't have the remotest sense of faith anything public servants or defense personnel put together in this country could stand to defend against penetration attempts from vetted software security experts.

Is this really a smart idea? It's like asking for backlash, with the risk of having potentially sensitive information exposed as a result.

Re:Huh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571307)

It's like asking for backlash

Definitely. You will know your machine has been used as a proxy by ASIO when the organized crime comes knocking the doors down.

Re:Huh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571643)

Or when your transfer (used to be download, but most a lot of isps count bytes in both directions now) quota vanishes....

All Governments (1)

grantspassalan (2531078) | about 2 years ago | (#42570959)

These days are justifying their actions with âoehelp the childrenâ or âoecatch terroristsâ.

What happens if you get rid of their backdoor.. (4, Interesting)

NettiWelho (1147351) | about 2 years ago | (#42570981)

You get charged with interfering with law enforcement operation?

I can hear a dingo... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571027)

...eating your rights!

Re:I can hear a dingo... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571751)

we keep telling them to chew with their mouths shut but they just don't listen

Ha (3, Insightful)

Moe1975 (885721) | about 2 years ago | (#42571047)

I'd like to see them do that to someone's OpenBSD box!

Re:Ha (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571065)

Key logger

Re:Ha (1)

Moe1975 (885721) | about 2 years ago | (#42571099)

Not remotely.

Re:Ha (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571169)

Sure. Break in to the guys house to install your logger, with a cellular network connection. ASIO can break into houses easily enough.

Re:Ha (1)

Moe1975 (885721) | about 2 years ago | (#42571211)

Right. Which would defeat the whole purpose of what they aim to achieve in this instance: use people's computers in a lawful, discreet, and efficient manner.

Re:Ha (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571275)

Its lawful because they can go to the parliament to get the power to do it. It can be discreet and efficient because they can set themselves up to do it properly. Follow all the people who live in the house. Employ lock experts. Buy vehicles and brand themselves as electricians, whatever. Just walk in and do the job.

Re:Ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571375)

It would be more efficient to simply get their own hardware/software resources to achieve the objective (use other people's machines) than to do all that, and more discreet. Going to parliament every time, the administrative resoources needed to set it up, personnel to run surveillance, locksmiths, vehicles, disguises, all that, costs money and time and other resources, plus it is not as discreet as it may sound. Why do all that to get at someone's OpenBSD box when they can just basically waltz in to a Windows box? That has been my point, and I will say it again, I would like to see them remotely hijack an OpenBSD box.

Re:Ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571435)

They might want to break into your computer because it has already been compromised by someone else and they want this someone else to keep using it so they can collect enough evidence. If they have to break into your house and install something, so be it. They currently don't have that ability (under current law).

There is NO freaking operating system capable of protecting you when the attacker has physical access. And when I say no I mean no.

Re:Ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571539)

In the hands of the wrong user from their point of view, even with physical access it would be nearly impossible: I myself would be able to tell if something is off with my keyboard cable in seconds which is where a hardware keylogger would go, and I am NOT going to use a wireless keyboard - ever. And as far as gaining access to the OS, if the whole disk is encrypted and you have an adequate login password, there is no way to get into an OpenBSD box. Now, keystrokes can be snooped upon from a distance, but that is not easy to do either.

Re:Ha (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571943)

Congratulations Mr AC. Due to your fanstastic karma score Thinkgeek have given you a brand new Das keyboard for your ongoing posting convenience.

Re:Ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571217)

You're talking about modus operandi when they want to catch the owner of the box.

Article and GP speak about ASIO making people "volunteer" CPU and bandwidth for proxies and botnets.

I really hope that they don't yet have government permission to break in and bug houses at random.

Re:Ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571739)

dude, you can surely only watch "antitrust" so many times before it gets boring

Re:Ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571267)

Nah, they'll just make secure systems illegal.

Who is terrorizing who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571067)

Is terrorism even a thing to worry about down under? (other than from the government)

Re:Who is terrorizing who? (2)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571085)

Its partly because of our close relationship with the US. We have to keep track of terrorists living in Australia, and possibly migrating here.

Re:Who is terrorizing who? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571599)

australia is a backwater country with a small population and small economy (even though standard of living and per capita stats are good)

there are some large cities (melbourne, sydney, brisbane) but there isn't really much in the way of populated landmarks that would make good targets like the wtc in nyc

there are very few nuclear facilities (lucas heights) and a huge sparsely populated landmass to hide military facilities in

even our government is pretty tame in the big scheme of things

guess that's why its called the lucky country

Status of ASIO members ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571069)

Outside of Australia, what would be the status of ASIO members and those that authorize them?

Re:Status of ASIO members ? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571603)

asio is probably akin to the cia in the states

The Aussie government is criminal. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571091)

Seems fitting somehow, since the original settlers of Australia were
people who had been branded as criminals by the power structure in
England at the time. Of course the truth is that those who were deported
to Australia were more often economically disadvantaged and not actually
any sort of hardened criminals. The current Australian government on the
other hand is looking like a very seasoned and very hardened criminal right now.

Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the NWO? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571093) []

I donâ(TM)t know about you, but I find it very curious that comedian George Carlin died of chest pains a few months after his new, scathing routine on the powers-that-be got excerpted in a you-tube video, and five days after it was announced to the press that âoeCarlin was being awarded the 11th annual Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, which will be presented Nov. 10 in Washington and broadcast on PBS.â (quote from AP article appearing on yahoo! this morning)

Were the bad boys afraid of what would happen if honor-laden Carlin spoke his mind about the global conspiracy on national public television to millions of intelligent viewers? Stranger things have happened. I attended a lecture 12 years years ago by Bill Cooper, a retired naval intelligence officer who had written a book, âoeBehold a Pale Horse,â that spilled many secrets he had been privy to during his service.

Cooper said he had taken an oath, as a military officer, to defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, domestic and foreign. He believed it was his duty to that oath to expose the truth that was being kept from the American public, threatening American freedom. He had received warnings on his life and said if he wound up dead, it would prove everything he had been saying was true. Three years later I read that he had been shot to death on the front yard of his home.

Bill Cooper was not the first âoetrutherâ to be assassinated, but itâ(TM)s a name that sometimes gets forgotten on the list, which is reason enough to mention it. Was George Carlin a victim of something similar? Hard to say. But when an outspoken, fearless man with a growing public image steps forward claiming the people who âoeownâ the country have swallowed our freedoms and intend to swallow those few remaining, that tends to get noticed by the âoeownersâ he is talking about. How could they let Carlin stay on the loose?

Assassinations show us that aware people must collectively shoulder the burden of speaking about the whatâ(TM)s really happening in the world, quietly and in our personal circles. We must also, when we feel our numbers are great enough, act en masse, in huge nonviolent demonstrations and broad, collective acts of civil disobedience, against rules that infringe on basic human rights.

The few who become public targets by revealing information that points to the guilty (heroes like David Kelly, the Kennedys, David Icke) find themselves murdered or their reputations murdered. We can prevent that happening when we are everywhere, acting in a grassroots, âoethought-guerrillaâ fashion. The little mice, in the fable, freed the lion. The big beasts couldnâ(TM)t do it.

I discovered this you-tube announcement for a âoeRally Against the New World Orderâ scheduled to take place in London and in Washington, D.C. on July 4. We can support our heroes by standing with them on this day. Donâ(TM)t let David Icke, Alex Jones and other brave individuals try to stop the emerging fascist state alone. The time comes when each of us must do something.

Those who want to microchip humanity and establish a global government can sniper-shot our leaders. They canâ(TM)t kill millions of people who choose to oppose their strategies.

Itâ(TM)s time for us to speak out together. I believe the time has come to demonstrate, to make our message and presence widely known to the world.

The press canâ(TM)t ignore demonstrations that take place in massive proportions. Will these rallies be massive? Are we ready yet? Where will you be on July 4?

Bronte Baxter

© Bronte Baxter 2008

Anyone may republish this article on another website as long as they include the copyright and a back link to this site.

Re:Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the N (1)

graphius (907855) | about 2 years ago | (#42571197)

I donâ(TM)t know about you, but I find it very curious that comedian George Carlin died of chest pains a few months after his new, scathing routine

or maybe the fact he was 80 years old, with a history of heart problems....

Re:Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the N (1)

swalve (1980968) | about 2 years ago | (#42571619)

And a long life of drug abuse.

Probably (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571331)

Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the NWO?


all large organizations are the enemy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571097)

anytime an organization gets large enough it is invariably taken over by sociopaths and used to further their personal agendas

governments, corporations, churches are all the enemy of the individual

because the way the evil people at the top think unless an individual is their puppet, or under their thumb then the individual is a threat and power must be expanded until everyone is of that status

the "leaders" will use any excuse or lie to justify their power expansion but the results are always the same, larger budgets, more power, less accountability

there is no way to "fight" because I'm not evil enough to use their tactics, so all I can do is live quietly and hope they don't notice me or my family

I'd worry about a Tempest virus (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571107) []

"I'd worry about a Tempest virus that polled a personal computer's
CD-ROM drive to pulse the motor as a signalling method:

* Modern high-speed CD-ROM drive motors are both acoustically and
    electrically noisy, giving you two attack methods for the price of one;

* Laptop computer users without CRTs, and the PC users that can afford
    large LCD screens instead of CRTs, often have CD-ROM drives;

* Users are getting quite used to sitting patiently while their
    CD-ROM drives grind away for no visibly obvious reason (but
    that's quite enough about the widespread installs of software from
    Microsoft CD-ROMs that prompted Kuhn's investigation in the first place.)"

Re:I'd worry about a Tempest virus (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 2 years ago | (#42571219)

"I'd worry about a Tempest virus that polled a personal computer's CD-ROM drive to pulse the motor as a signalling method:

Why bother when it could use a small cellular modem?

What will Woz Do? (4, Insightful)

Macrat (638047) | about 2 years ago | (#42571117)

Will Woz still want to buy Aussie citizenship if this is allowed?

TEMPEST Attacks! LCD Monitor leaks to FRS! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571125)

TEMPEST Attacks! LCD Monitor leaks system noise to FRS

This post is one example of why Tor developers should focus on anti-TEMPEST-ing the Tor Browser, in color, fonts, etc.
I don't operate any wireless equipment at my living location. This includes computers, computer equipment, routers, non-computer equipment, etc.

I'm having a problem with one of my LCD monitors.

It works without problems. That was until I picked up some heavy static noises from a hand held radio. I eliminated all sources of generating this type of noise until I came towards an LCD monitor. When the monitor is on and there is content on the screen the radio makes several types of garbage(static) sounds. As I manipulate contents on the screen, maximize and minimize windows, open different applications, the radio responds with scratchy(static) noises to match the activity on the screen. This includes typing and mouse movement.

When I switched the desktop background to a solid black color without wallpaper, the radio noise went down to almost nothing. But when I loaded any program with a white background, the noise from the radio exploded in volume.

When I passed the radio across different computer and non-computer electronic devices other than the LCD monitor, the wired mouse made a high pitched squeal sound within the static. None of the other computing devices such as the tower generated any noise.

I tried CRT monitors and separate computers attached to the CRT monitors but they did not generate any noise in the radio. On the computer connected to the net, I unplugged the cable leading to the router to rule this out but it made no difference, the LCD monitor is at fault.

While monitoring the radio noise, there were several instances where the noise on the channel being monitored stopped, and I switched to another channel and the same noise appeared. Why would the noise from the LCD switch channels during normal use of the LCD? Back and forth throughout the day the noise generated by the LCD would switch from one channel to the next and back to the first channel again.

The noise extends several steps within my living location. I'll test this another day to determine if it extends outside my living location and if so by how many feet.

The computer/monitor are grounded and attached to a surge protector. I'm not sure what I need to do to stop this, or if I should ignore it.

I assumed LCDs would be quieter than CRTs when it came to noise.

Unless I have a radio tuned to a specific channel, the LCD does not generate any noise which I can detect, unless it's above my hearing capacity.

The LCD monitor also functions as speakers, and while the sound cable is connected to the tower, I have disabled the onboard sound in my BIOS. The only other connection is the DVI cable to the tower.

How may I decrease this noise or eliminate it? It seems like the LCD is a mini radio station. When I turn it off the noise in the radio stops, if I blacken the screen the noise lessens. When I switch to a colorful background or load white screened applications like a web browser the noise jumps up loudly. I've tried grabbing and moving a browser window around the screen and the movement matches the noises in the radio.

Would any of this be considered normal?
This certainly isn't unheard of, it's because some part of the monitor is unshielded. The more fix-it stuff is at the top of the following, with the technical backdrop that just might be good to know is at the bottom.

Unfortunately, the issue is most likely the panel charging the LCs. The only thing you can do is see if the manufacturer will replace it or upgrade you. Complain to the manufacturer, be sure to come up with some important thing it's interfering with(if I recall some medical devices use some sort of radio).

If the issue is actually internal wiring which is highly unlikely as detailed below, and it isn't in warranty, attempt to shield it yourself. To shield it yourself, you'll need thin foil(not kitchen foil) and electrical tape.

So, in any given monitor, there's 3 main parts. Input, logic, and output. Output, as previously mentioned, can't really be shielded. To shield both of the other sections, all you really need to do is manipulate the wiring to reduce the number of holes in the foil wrap needed to put it all back together. Obviously this will take some trial and error, and time.


Shielding wires can best be thought of as a encasing a wire in a Faraday cage, made of foil. If you want to see an example, Apple's iPod charging cords are all shielded, strip the insulation and see for yourself. This shielding acts doubly, keeping EM noise from messing with the signal, and keeps the signal's own noise from leaving.

Because of the specific details you provided( bravo to you, the amount of data provided helped ), I can conclude that the charging panel(the array of electrodes responsible for producing the image) is putting out the interference. Three of your observations prove this.

First, you state the noise ceases completely when the monitor is turned off, which is consistent with it being EM noise.
Second, the noise's perceived pitch changes when the display is manipulated, which is to be expected, as the electrode charges would change as the display changes.
Third, a black screen is "quieter" than a white screen. Black is the lowest charge state, with the only power in use going to the backlight.

As for your questions:
Noise hopping channels isn't unheard of, though I don't know the science behind it. My best guess is that because the noise isn't an intended result of the electricity, small changes in voltage/amperage result in those hops.
(indirect question-ish) The mouse was likely the only other emitter because it has a fairly high density of wires + it emits light.

What 1s the d1fference between - and where may 1 obta1n the non-k1tchen "foil" you ment1oned?

The d1sturbances sound l1ke a bugged env1ronment. The squeal com1ng from one area and/or dev1ce could mean the locat1on of the bug has been found - and 1 know adding a small dev1ce and/or mod1f1cation to a keyboard and/or mouse 1s s1mple enough - espec1ally for a quick 1n and out the door type bugging.

1s there an affordable method of sh1elding the equ1pment while not violating FCC/TEMPEST laws? Would a simple screen d1mmer attached to the monitor bring the no1se down? Or would 1t be best to put out the extra money requ1red by purchas1ng spec1al paint or wallpaper wh1ch blocks RF signals?

Whether or not 1t's a bug, at this point you are broadcast1ng your computer mon1tor and 1ts activ1t1es, down to the keyboard and mouse movements. What 1s the use of using Tor or any other l1ke serv1ce 1f you are pwned over the a1r waves?
You could use kitchen foil, it's just more unwieldy to work with.

Yes, it could be a bug, I was running under the assumption you had no reason to believe you were bugged, and if you did you ran bug sweeps. If you believe you are bugged, you should definitely dismantle things to make sure a bug isn't simply piggybacking on the same power source.

Dimming the screen would reduce noise, but not completely eliminate it.
Thanks, W00t.

"Dimming the screen would reduce noise, but not completely eliminate it."

I have modified my browser to function with a black background and my choice of text colors and unchecked the option for all pages to use their own colors, so every page I visit is black with my choice of font/links colors. I'll rescan to determine if this lessens the noise. It's ugly, but tolerable. Coupled with a black theme for the desktop, including the background and system wide applications should also help - including disabling images in the browser.

You mentioned foil. I'm not an electrician, but wouldn't wrapping cords with foil and finishing the job off with a layer of strong black tape possibly conduct electricity? Are you suggesting I cover all wires leading to the computer(s) using this method? Wouldn't they each require special grounding? How many repeating layers of this and/or other material is needed? Have you tried "conductive tubing?"

While I want to shield enough to block noisy RF, I don't want to create a microwave type scenario where RF is contained but it still remains and is possibly amplified so as to add to the degeneration of my health, if that's possible.

1. Ferrite beads
2. Split beads
3. Toroids


I could try some or all of the three options above in addition to your advice? TY
Anyways this reminding me of Van Eck phreaking look it up, some pretty interesting stuff.

Yep, had the same thought.

Countermeasures are detailed in the article on TEMPEST, the NSA's standard on spy-proofing digital equipment. One countermeasure involves shielding the equipment to minimize electromagnetic emissions. Another method, specifically for video information, scrambles the signals such that the image is perceptually undisturbed, but the emissions are harder to reverse engineer into images. Examples of this include low pass filtering fonts and randomizing the least significant bit of the video data information.
can someone please point me to techie LCD monitor internal guides? If I'm going to take it apart I'd like to know what to expect. I've read more about Van Eck and Tempest than anyone can teach me here. Now I'm looking for LCD guides of what's inside.
To be honest, its not the whats inside the LCD monitor you should be worrying about if you want to phreak LCD's . You should be worry more about the RF side of things, and figuring out the spread spectrum clock signal so you can pick up the signal. Top if off background noise is going to be bitch when it comes to LCD. Old CRT monitors are way easier to phreak those thing throw off EM radiation like nobody business.
The noise coming from the LCD monitor is appearing on FRS channels:

- []

It continues for several minutes before it jumps to another channel then after a few minutes jumps back to the original channel. One of my concerns is the ability for others to pluck this noise from the air (Van Eck/TEMPEST) and monitor my activity, or possibly use an attack against the computer somehow. A recent UN report mentioned a high tech method(s):

* U.N. report reveals secret law enforcement techniques

"Point 201: Mentions a new covert communications technique using software defined high frequency radio receivers routed through the computer creating no logs, using no central server and extremely difficult for law enforcement to intercept."

- []
- []

In addition, I don't want my LCD monitor constantly sending monitor and/or system activity to a FRS channel(s) for others to hear. I choose wired over wireless for a reason, and there shouldn't be any noise coming from my LCD monitor and appearing over FRS, unless there is a bug or problem with the monitor. All of my
CRT systems are silent on FRS.

When I position the radio near different components, the power supply doesn't emit any noise on FRS, but it could be a problem, I don't know, I'll move to that once I resolve the LCD monitor problem, unless the PSU is the problem and not the monitor.

I may take apart the LCD monitor, I'm looking for a good list of what I'll find if I do.

I peered inside the vents on the top/back left hand side with a strong flashlight and came across a strange piece of silver tape inside, here's how I describe it:


OO = a small thin black material coming out from underneath the silver piece of tape
GG = the strip of silver tape
__ = the bottom right hand portion of the silver tape is raised enough to allow a pinky finger entry

The silver tape/material/opening under tape is on the top left corner inside the monitor. The rest of the length and area inside that I can see contain no tape or black material. I've seen photos of planted bugs in people's living spaces and most if not all of the invasive ones are wrapped/covered in silver foil. I've found no other reason for that strip and material to be there, but what do I know.
In addition, my CDROM drive light blinks once every second, sometimes with a second or 1/2 second in between, and I found this: []

"I'd worry about a Tempest virus that polled a personal computer's
CD-ROM drive to pulse the motor as a signalling method:

* Modern high-speed CD-ROM drive motors are both acoustically and
electrically noisy, giving you two attack methods for the price of one;

* Laptop computer users without CRTs, and the PC users that can afford
large LCD screens instead of CRTs, often have CD-ROM drives;

* Users are getting quite used to sitting patiently while their
CD-ROM drives grind away for no visibly obvious reason (but
that's quite enough about the widespread installs of software from
Microsoft CD-ROMs that prompted Kuhn's investigation in the first place.)"
"I'd worry about a Tempest virus that polled a personal computer' personal computer' CD-ROM drive"

Yes and the hard drive and in some PC's the cooling fans as well are under CPU control.

You can also do it with PC's where the CPU does not control the fan, but the hardware has a simple thermal sensor to control it's speed. You do this by simply having a process that uses power expensive instructions in tight loops, thus raising the CPU temprature (it's one of the side channels I was considering a long time ago when thinking about how the temp inside the case changed various things including the CPU clock XTAL frequency).

The change in sound side channel is one of the first identified problems with Quantum Key Distribution. Basicaly the bod who came up with the idea whilst first testing the idea could tell the state of "Alice's polarizer" simply by the amount of noise it made...

The CD-ROM motor idea I'd heard befor but could not remember where till I followed your link.

Dr Lloyd Wood has worked with the UK's Surrey Uni, the European Space Agency and Americas NASA and one or two other places as part of his work for Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd. He has been involved with CLEO (Cisco router in Low Earth Orbit) and other work on what's being called "The Space Internet".

Of interest is his work on Delay and Disruption Tolerant Networks (DTN). It's not been said "publicaly" as far as I'm aware but the work has aspects that are important to anonymity networks such as TOR.

You can read more on Dr Wood's DTN work etc at, []

The UK occupies an odd position in the "Space Race" it is the only nation who having put a satellite into space then stopped further space rocket development (the Black Knight launch platform was considerably safer and more economic than the then US and CCCP systems). The UK has however continued in the Space Game and is perhaps the leading designers of payloads for scientific and industrial satellites (it probably is on military sats as well but nobody who knows for sure is telling ;-)

Clive Robinson []
I don't think there should be anymore blinking if you remove the CD/DVD inside.
If it keeps blinking, find out which process uses it.
Anyway, you can disable it when you're not using it, if it's bothering you.

And shield your monitor. []
"I don't think there should be anymore blinking if you remove the CD/DVD inside."

Does Tails support this at boot?

If not, is there a Linux LiveCD which allows this and does not give you root access at boot?

I've looked at several different distributions which allow you to boot into RAM and remove the CD, but they all give you root and that's a very insecure environment to run TBB in!

"If it keeps blinking, find out which process uses it."

It doesn't blink on the several distros which boot into RAM, but I don't want to run Tor as root or reconfigure the permissions/PAM/etc. just to use TBB. As above, with Tails and many LiveCDs which don't boot into RAM, 99% of them have this blinking light issue. The actual INSTALLS I've done to HDD experience constant light activity too, even more so, without anything to explain them.

For Linux, I've ran rkhunter, chkrootkit, tiger, and other tools and nothing malicious is found. Without a deep binary analysis I don't know what else I could do.

For Windows, I use a few programs in the SysInternals Suite and they display strange usage on the system and reference programs which cannot be found with a search on the system, references to impersonation, spoofing, and more. I've ran almost every N.American scanner on the Windows systems, including command line only rootkit detectors and I've seen some strange 'strings' of binaries mentioned, but have no idea on how to clean the system.

I prefer to run LiveCDs because all installations, Windows and Linux, contain unexplainable frenzies of blinking lights, far worse than the blink every second on most LiveCDs. I'm wondering if this is firmware malware on my NIC or the CDROM itself. This has existed for years and never goes away, no matter what system I use, this strange baggage seems to re-infect everything.

"Anyway, you can disable it when you're not using it, if it's bothering you."

Disable what?

"And shield your monitor."

Thanks. I'm investigating and most of the guides require specific addons to the computer's cabling system. Most of the guides appear incomplete, or are in another language other than English.

Any comments on the Tempest/blinking light possibility?

Any comments on why it's spewing out noise to FRS stations and freq hopping?
More comments from elsewhere:


"You're making a mountain out of a mole hill."

I respect your opinion and I don't wish to argue against it, but please look at it from the way I and some others have. I want to eliminate the noise created by the LCD monitor. If this was such a common experience, I would expect at least one of the dozens of other electronic equipment to generate some noise, however faint, on FRS - but they do not.

"You are under the wrong impression that somehow RF hash from the back light can somehow carry data. A liquid crystal display (LCD) does not generate its own light like a CRT or plasma screen and requires a light source to make the display visible. Even those that do cannot transmit computer data being none reaches the monitor."

The LCD is connected to a tower, which other devices connect to. Under testing I've heard the CDROM drive accessing data noises within the FRS channels, along with mouse movements and keyboard activity, along with other noises. When I disable the LCD monitor, all of these disturbances vanish. This means the weakness is in the monitor, and my tower is well shielded or shielded enough so as not to generate any noise in radios I can notice. The reference I made to the strange tape and material within the back side of the LCD monitor at the top could be a sign of some type of antenna or device for amping.

"Their FRS radios will only hear what yours does, RF hash, no data whatsoever THAT IS if one is standing outside your house tapping the radio and scratching his head wondering what's the matter with his radio. You and only you know what it is and where it's coming from."

And what of experienced and curious sysadmins? Rogue crackers? Bored HAMs?
Are there any remote radio injection attacks against systems? This is something I'll research later, as I do believe it was mentioned in at least one whitepaper on side channel attacks.

"Thanks for the chuckles, if the report reveals secrets it would not be published but sent by secret courier to the KGB in Moscow."

I'm not aware of any secrets revealed within the document. But it did raise an interesting point without exposing the method(s) delivered to us from an interesting party. This wasn't just some random article written by some anonymous, disturbed fellow and posted to a pastebin or conspiracy minded blog or forum. And one cannot deny the dozens of TEMPEST attacks available today.

"So... all this and no word on moving the radio farther from the monitor. Why don't you try talking somewhere besides in front of the computer if it bothers you so much?"

Thank you for considering conversation as my reason for posting this, but it is not. I would not choose a noisy channel to talk on. Clear conversation is not the point of this thread. I desire the elimination of this garbage coming from the LCD monitor. I don't care if no one in the world can pick up on it and hear it, I would like to properly resolve it and not ignore it.

One can also dredge up the subject of EMF on health, too, but I have not experienced any disturbance of health from exposure to this noise and most people would argue any possible EMF effects on health to be one of one's over active imagination and not real world application.


A continued discussion was posted elsewhere, this may be useful in the voyage to remove this "noise":


In addition, my CDROM drive light blinks once every second, sometimes with a second or 1/2 second in between, and I found this:

[-] []

"I'd worry about a Tempest virus that polled a personal computer's
CD-ROM drive to pulse the motor as a signalling method:

* Modern high-speed CD-ROM drive motors are both acoustically and
electrically noisy, giving you two attack methods for the price of one;

* Laptop computer users without CRTs, and the PC users that can afford
large LCD screens instead of CRTs, often have CD-ROM drives;

* Users are getting quite used to sitting patiently while their
CD-ROM drives grind away for no visibly obvious reason (but
that's quite enough about the widespread installs of software from
Microsoft CD-ROMs that prompted Kuhn's investigation in the first place.)"


Any comments on the silver tape and material inside the back of the LCD? ...Disconnection of the LED CDROM and HDD lights could be something I should do to relieve one possible issue.


Some articles with examples:

"If everything is just right, you can pick up signals from some distance. "I was able to eavesdrop certain laptops through three walls," says Kuhn. "At the CEBIT conference, in 2006, I was able to see the Powerpoint presentation from a stand 25 metres away."

uhn also mentioned that one laptop was vulnerable because it had metal hinges that carried the signal of the display cable. I asked if you could alter a device to make it easier to spy on. "There are a lot of innocuous modifications you can make to maximise the chance of getting a good signal," he told me. For example, adding small pieces of wire or cable to a display could make a big difference.

As for defending against this kind of attack, Kuhn says using well-shielded cables, certain combinations of colours and making everything a little fuzzy all work."

- []


Online viewer for PDF, PostScript and Word:

"This is an online viewer, with which you can view PDF and PostScript files as browsable images and Word documents as web pages. Given a URL on the net or a file on your computer, the viewer will try to retrieve the document, convert it and show it to you. No plugin software is required." []

The viewer software is open source, licensed under the GNU Public License.

Electromagnetic eavesdropping risks of flat-panel displays []


Eavesdropping attacks on computer displays
- []


Compromising emanations: eavesdropping risks of computer displays
- []
- []


Compromising emanations of LCD TV sets
- []


"Q: Can I use filtered fonts also on flat-panel displays

My experience so far has been that with LCDs, the video cable is the most significant source of radiated information leakage. Where an analogue video cable (with 15-pin VGA connector) is used, low-pass filtered fonts have the same benefits as with CRTs. Where a purely digital video cable is used (DVI-D, laptop-internal displays with FPD/LVDS links, etc.) only the last step, namely randomizing the least-significant bits, should be implemented.

Where the video signal is entirely encoded in digital form, the low-pass filtered step will not have the desired effect. In fact, it can actually increase the differences between the signal generated by individual characters, and thereby make automatic radio character recognition more reliable."

- []


Remotely Eavesdropping on Keyboards (and read the comments!)

"The researchers from the Security and Cryptography Laboratory at Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne are able to capture keystrokes by monitoring the electromagnetic radiation of PS/2, universal serial bus, or laptop keyboards. They've outline four separate attack methods, some that work at a distance of as much as 65 feet from the target.

In one video demonstration, researchers Martin Vuagnoux and Sylvain Pasini sniff out the the keystrokes typed into a standard keyboard using a large antenna that's about 20 to 30 feet away in an adjacent room."

- []


Video eavesdropping demo at CeBIT 2006
- []


Optical Emission Security â" Frequently Asked Questions

"Q: What about LEDs?

For devices with RS-232 serial ports, it is customary to provide a status indicator LED for some of the signal lines (in particular transmit data and receive data). Often, these LEDs are directly connected to the line via just a resistor. As a result, anyone with a line of sight to the LED, some optics and a simple photosensor can see the data stream. Joe Loughry and David A. Umphress have recently announced a detailed study (submitted to ACM Transactions on Information and System Security) in which they tested 39 communications devices with 164 LED indicators, and on 14 of the tested devices they found serial port data in the LED light. Based on their findings, it seems reasonable to conclude that LEDs for RS-232 ports are most likely carrying the data signal today, whereas LEDs on high-speed data links (LANs, harddisk) do not. Even these LEDs are still available as a covert channel for malicious software that actively tries to transmit data optically.

I expect that this paper will cause a number of modem manufacturers to add a little pulse stretcher (monostable multivibrator) to the LEDs in the next chip set revision, and that at some facilities with particular security concerns, the relevant LEDs will be removed or covered with black tape.

The data traffic on LEDs is not a periodic signal, and therefore, unlike with video signals, periodic averaging cannot be used to improve the signal-to-noise ratio. The shot-noise limit estimation technique that I used to estimate the CRT eavesdropping risk can even more easily (because no deconvolution is needed) also be applied to serial port indicators and allows us to estimate a lower bound for the bit-error rate at a given distance. I have performed a few example calculations and concluded that with a direct line of sight, and a 100 kbit/s signal (typical for an external telephone modem), at 500 m distance it should be no problem to acquire a reliable signal (one wrong bit every 10 megabit), whereas for indirect reflection from the wall of a dark room, a somewhat more noisy signal (at least one wrong bit per 10 kilobit) can be expected to be receivable in a few tens of meters distance.

- []


Ancient Story on Slashdot: Coming to a Desktop near you: Tempest Capabilities

"New Scientist has an interesting article about a new toy we will all want. It's a card that plugs in one of your PCI slots and allows you to scan the EMF spectrum and read your neighbours terminal. In about 5 years you might be able to get one for just under £1000. (Modern Tempest Hardware costs about £30000) " []


"Any unshielded electrical device with a variable current (including LCDs) will give out EMF radiation. It's the nature of the beast.

For that matter, light is EMF radiation, so unless you have your LCD in a coal-mine, it's reflecting EMF all the time it's switched on.

Then, there's the fact that screen monitoring isn't the only monitoring you can do. I used to use a radio, tuned into the bus for the PET, as a sound card. Worked surprisingly well, for all that very clunky metal shielding. What's to stop a much higher-quality receiver from seeing the data, in an unshielded box, being sent TO the LCD, or to any other device on the machine?

It's a mistake to assume that Tempest technology is single-function and that that single-function only works in a single situation."

- []


800Mbps Wireless Network Made With LED Light Bulbs
- []


There are a lot of other files, many in PPT format, which can be found easily on this subject of LCD monitor (and other computing devices) TEMPEST sniffing.


Sources for this discussion:

- []
- http://clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10919 [clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion] .onion link above requires a running Tor client session in order to view. (

This on-going discussion backed up to Pastebin(s) in order to retain it as an artifact. Many of these
types of discussions are REMOVED from the net because of the nature of the discussion (TEMPEST).

Re:TEMPEST Attacks! LCD Monitor leaks to FRS! (1)

graphius (907855) | about 2 years ago | (#42571233)

Does this get the record for the longest TL;DR reply? It has to be in the running

(ENF) Electrical Network Frequency analysis (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571135)

Archived @: [] [] []
The hum that helps to fight crime (ENF) Electrical Network Frequency analysis

"For the last seven years, at the Metropolitan Police forensic lab in south London, audio specialists have been continuously recording the sound of mains electricity.

It is an all pervasive hum that we normally cannot hear. But boost it a little, and a metallic and not very pleasant buzz fills the air. ...

"The power is sent out over the national grid to factories, shops and of course our homes. Normally this frequency, known as the mains frequency, is about 50Hz," explains Dr Alan Cooper, a senior digital forensic practitioner at the Met Police.

Any digital recording made anywhere near an electrical power source, be it plug socket, light or pylon, will pick up this noise and it will be embedded throughout the audio.

This buzz is an annoyance for sound engineers trying to make the highest quality recordings. But for forensic experts, it has turned out to be an invaluable tool in the fight against crime.

While the frequency of the electricity supplied by the national grid is about 50Hz, if you look at it over time, you can see minute fluctuations. ...

Comparing the unique pattern of the frequencies on an audio recording with a database that has been logging these changes for 24 hours a day, 365 days a year provides a digital watermark: a date and time stamp on the recording.

Philip Harrison, from JP French Associates, another forensic audio laboratory that has been logging the hum for several years, says: "Even if [the hum] is picked up at a very low level that you cannot hear, we can extract this information."

It is a technique known as Electric Network Frequency (ENF) analysis, and it is helping forensic scientists to separate genuine, unedited recordings from those that have been tampered with."

- []
- []


Met lab claims 'biggest breakthrough since Watergate'
Power lines act as police informers

- []


Noisy, muffled, incoherent recordings are an audio engineerâ(TM)s worst nightmare, but all too often they contain vital evidence in criminal trials. Itâ(TM)s the job of the forensic audio specialist to extract that evidence.

- []


(discussion forum) Electrical network frequency analysis, Mains frequency variations detectable in digital audio recordings?

- []


Met Police use electrical 'hum' to solve crimes

The Metropolitan Police is using the "hum" of background noise produced by mains electricity to help solve crimes, it has been disclosed.

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Related Research
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Engineers Use Electrical Hum To Fight Crime

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Howâ(TM)s the 60Hz coming from your wall?

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Detecting Edited Audio

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Dating Recordings by Power Line Fluctuations

- []


NFI ENF Collector (software!)

"This is an ENF collector in java for collecting the variation in frequency in the electric network via the audio card with a AC adapter with the correct voltage. It can assist in forensic research for determining the time of the recording."

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ENF Extraction From Digital Recordings Using Adaptive Techniques and Frequency Tracking

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Electrical network frequency analysis @

"Electrical network frequency (ENF) analysis is a forensic science technique for validating audio recordings by comparing frequency changes in background mains hum in the recording with long-term high-precision historical records of mains frequency changes from a database. In effect the mains hum signal is treated as if it were a time-dependent digital watermark that can help identify when the recording was created, and help detect any edits in the recording. Historical records of main frequency changes are kept on record e.g. by police in the German federal state of Bavaria since 2010.

The technology has been hailed as "the most significant development in audio forensics since Watergate." However, according to a paper by Huijbregtse and Geradts, the ENF technique, although powerful, has significant limitations caused by ambiguity based on fixed frequency offsets during recording, and self-similarity within the mains frequency database, particularly for recordings shorter than 10 minutes.

More recently, researchers demonstrated that the indoor lights such as fluorescent lights and incandescent bulbs vary their light intensity in accordance with the voltage supplied, which in turn depends on the voltage supply frequency. As a result, the light intensity can carry the frequency fluctuation information to the visual sensor recordings in the similar way as the electromagnetic waves from the power transmission lines carry the ENF information to audio sensing mechanisms. Based on this result, researchers demonstrated that visual track from still video taken in an indoor lighting environments also contain ENF traces that can be extracted by estimating the frequency at which ENF will appear in a video as low sampling frequency of video (25â"30 Hz) cause significant aliasing. It was also demonstrated in the same research that the ENF signatures from visual stream and the ENF signature from audio stream in a given video should match. As a result, the matching between the two signals can be used to determine if the audio and visual track was recorded together or superimposed later."

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I'd like to report a terrorist (4, Insightful)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 2 years ago | (#42571147)

Dear ASIO, The only people (and I use that term loosely) currently terrorising Australia are you. Kindly take your hacking desires against lawful citizens and shove them.

CIA Head: We Will Spy On Americans Through EA's (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571151)

Archived @: [] [] []
CIA Head: We Will Spy On Americans Through Electrical Appliances

Global information surveillance grid being constructed; willing Americans embrace gadgets used to spy on them

Steve Watson | | March 16, 2012 []

"CIA director David Petraeus has said that the rise of new "smart" gadgets means that Americans are effectively bugging their own homes, saving US spy agencies a job when it identifies any "persons of interest".

Speaking at a summit for In-Q-Tel, the CIA's technology investment operation, Petraeus made the comments when discussing new technologies which aim to add processors and web connections to previously 'dumb' home appliances such as fridges, ovens and lighting systems.

Wired reports the details via its Danger Room Blog[1]:

"'Transformational' is an overused word, but I do believe it properly applies to these technologies," Petraeus enthused, "particularly to their effect on clandestine tradecraft."

"Items of interest will be located, identified, monitored, and remotely controlled through technologies such as radio-frequency identification, sensor networks, tiny embedded servers, and energy harvesters - all connected to the next-generation internet using abundant, low-cost, and high-power computing," Petraeus said.

"the latter now going to cloud computing, in many areas greater and greater supercomputing, and, ultimately, heading to quantum computing." the CIA head added.

Petraeus also stated that such devices within the home "change our notions of secrecy".

Petraeus' comments come in the same week that one of the biggest microchip companies in the world, ARM, unveiled new processors that are designed to give practically every household appliance an internet connection[2], in order that they can be remote controlled and operate in tandem with applications.

ARM describes the concept as an "internet of things".

Where will all the information from such devices be sent and analyzed? It can be no coincidence that the NSA is currently building a monolithic heavily fortified $2 billion facility[3] deep in the Utah desert and surrounded by mountains. The facility is set to go fully live in September 2013.

"The Utah data center is the centerpiece of the Global Information Grid, a military project that will handle yottabytes of data, an amount so huge that there is no other data unit after it." reports Gizmodo.

"This center-with every listening post, spy satellite and NSA datacenter connected to it, will make the NSA the most powerful spy agency in the world."

Wired reports[4] that the incoming data is being mined by plugging into telecommunications companies' switches, essentially the same method the NSA infamously uses for warrantless wiretapping of domestic communications[5], as exposed six years ago.

Former intelligence analyst turned best selling author James Bamford, has penned a lengthy piece[6] on the NSA facility and warns "It is, in some measure, the realization of the 'total information awareness' program created during the first term of the Bush administration-an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans' privacy."


Steve Watson is the London based writer and editor for Alex Jones'[7], and[8]. He has a Masters Degree in International Relations from the School of Politics at The University of Nottingham in England.

(C) 2012 is a Free Speech Systems, LLC company. All rights reserved.

[1] []
[2] []
[3] []
[4] []
[5] []
[6] []
[7] []
[8] []


ASIO (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571203)

AH. For the good old days. Way back in the day the then Attorney-General personally led a raid on the HQ of ASIO on the grounds that he believed that ASIO had not given him full or accurate information about...yes...terrorist activity in Australia by Croatians. And this was back in the early 1970's

The kicker was that he did not consult with the Prime Minister or the Cabinet before he did it. The Government of the day had a great mistrust of Intelligence agencies

Welcome to communist Australia.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571227)

Please hand over your freedoms to your nearest politician.

Sounds like... (0)

holophrastic (221104) | about 2 years ago | (#42571249)

...commandeer a vehicle. Makes sense, as long is it's obvious and understandable. I'd happily back away from some work if a big message popped up saying that they needed my machine for a while. And since they don't have a warrant to search my machine, anything they find is inadmissable I imagine? That works for me. And if it's obvious, especially if I can't use my machine concurrently, then bot-nets aren't an issue.

Re:Sounds like... (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571705)

as long as they don't steal your kiddie pr0n collection

so... uhhh.... question! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571287)

what's the difference between cops and criminals again?

Translation (4, Insightful)

russotto (537200) | about 2 years ago | (#42571321)

Headline: "ASIO is already breaking into third-party computers unlawfully, but is tired of covering it up."

''The purpose of this power is to allow ASIO to access the computer of suspected terrorists and other security interests,'' : "The purpose of this power is power".

''(It would be used) in extremely limited circumstances and only when explicitly approved by the Attorney-General through a warrant.": "We'll use it whenever and order several redundant sets of rubber stamps for the warrants"

'The Attorney-General's Department refused to explain yesterday how third-party computers would be used, ''as this may divulge operationally sensitive information and methods used by ASIO in sensitive national security investigations.''' : "We use them for all sorts of things no one in their right mind would approve of"

Suggestions: (4, Informative)

thedarb (181754) | about 2 years ago | (#42571431)

* Run a BSD or Linux system. - Secure it. If you don't know how to do this, do your home work.
* Use a snapshot capable filesystem, and take snapshots (ZFS / BTRFS). - You can use these to identify file that have changed.
* Use Tripwire or a clone like AIDE. - This is a second level of checking for file changes.
* Manually audit your system regularly.
* Use OS repositories from outside Australia.

And the list would not end there.

Where have I heard this before? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571509)

"You are being watched. The government has a secret system: a machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it. I designed the machine to detect acts of terror, but it sees everything. Violent crimes involving ordinary people, people like you. Crimes the government considered irrelevant. They wouldn't act, so I decided I would. But I needed a partner, someone with the skills to intervene. Hunted by the authorities, we work in secret. You'll never find us, but victim or perpetrator, if your number's up... we'll find you".

Good news (5, Insightful)

KeensMustard (655606) | about 2 years ago | (#42571523)

Ever since terrorism became such a huge problem in Australia, ASIO have been unable to catch a single terrorist. So hampered were they by a lack of access to my computer, they have been unable to foil a single, credible terrorist plot. In the last decade or so, an attack by terrorists has been imminent, at any moment, I expect to be attacked by terrorists. The lack of an actual attack, the lack of any suspicion of an actual attack, the lack of any identifiable group with any plausible reason to attack, the lack of any identifiable person associated with any group planning to attack, these are simply indicators of how clever these devious, brown people are. If only someone would use my computer to hack into theirs, then Australians would know the reason for the constant stream of messages telling us to fear.

Ermahgerd (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571579)

In free societies, spy agencies still do (necessary) "evil" - but they ask permission first.

and you want blood you got it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571617)

to use a slightly differant little australian rock bands music lyric.

how about we on earth all hack every australian pc and see how there govt thinks about that after...

in other news... (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 2 years ago | (#42571697)

...ASIO computers have been hacked!

If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists (4, Insightful)

kawabago (551139) | about 2 years ago | (#42571795)

I'd rather have terrorists.

Re:If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42571927)

I couldn't agree more. I'd have to see dozens of deaths per day at the hands of "terrorists" before allowing my computer to be rooted by a government organisation even became an option. However, I suspect this is not the normal attitude.

Indeed, if we disregard advertising and assume all market participants are well-informed and rational it seems that the majority of people would pay considerably more for a pre-compromised device than a reasonably secure but otherwise roughly equivalent one. The notion of getting this feature for free and fighting terrorism is a big vote winner in my opinion.

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