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IT Job Market Recovering Faster Now Than After Dot-com Bubble Burst

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the certainly-caused-by-your-political-party's-fine-efforts dept.

Businesses 242

tsamsoniw writes "More new tech jobs have emerged since the end of the past recession than during the same recovery timelines following the dot-com bubble burst and the early-1990s recession. What's more, the unemployment rate among technology professionals is now half that of the national average — with especially low unemployment rates for database administrators and network architects. What's not clear, though, is how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned job searches."

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lol (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597373)

frsit

At least one (4, Insightful)

tverbeek (457094) | about 2 years ago | (#42597383)

Well, I've pretty much stopped looking. I suppose what I'm doing now counts as a "tech job", but the IT job market sure has lost a lot of appeal to me. Who wants to get chewed up and spit out again?

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597439)

You mean like at every job in the history of working? There is not a single employer out there who won't fire you when keeping you around is more expensive than letting you go.

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597617)

Except for all those companies that kept employees on as long as they could, hoping the economy would improve sooner rather than later. I have many customers who could have trimmed staff but chose to lose the money instead.

Re:At least one (5, Interesting)

Cryacin (657549) | about 2 years ago | (#42597689)

Same here. My current employer almost went belly up keeping everyone on without the work. Eventually when faced with either closing their doors, my boss took everyone in a room and explained it had gotten worse, asked who had options and if they were willing to exercise them, and then the remainder were let go with the crystal clear understanding that they did everything they could, that it was certainly not by bad performance on their part, and that should things turn around, they will be the first to get a call.

Contrary to what they teach you at the Ivy league schools, as the employees were treated like reasonable people, they treated the business owners the same way. Some left of their own accord, and the rest although terrified about being out in the cold, understood and agreed that this was the only course of action.

Fast forward a few months, and most of the people who left, are now back working for us, as things have turned around. The rest are all in well paying jobs, and have nothing but good things to say. If only more employers worked in this fashion.

Re:At least one (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598315)

Goodwill is a currency of its own. One may ascribe the notion as some cosmic karma and such, but it really is simply building up trust and respect. Treat a man like an actual human being and reciprocity will do its thing. When I was trying to get into the software development workforce, I had chosen poorly in selecting academic credentials and all that so I had to prove myself from a lower starting point and work up to it. When I was finally getting out of the contractor rut, my employer at the time had no means to hire me; they were barely in the black. I worked out a very illegal deal with my employer to keep me on past the legal termination date(Washington state has some particularly evil laws regarding software related contract workers contract length), but without official title or wages to reflect my position as an actual developer. It was just a handshake agreement, but after some time I was finally hired on and compensated as well.

Corporations, those fascistic entities that do not exist by their ability to serve willing customers in society but rather through use of state power, may not have many stories like mine but that is another issue. Where peaceful creativity and voluntary exchange are the standard, people react well to reciprocity. In this sort of work environment where violence is not how things 'get done', goodwill works.

Re:At least one (1)

tverbeek (457094) | about 2 years ago | (#42598467)

The place I'm working now is the one place that ever let me go on decent terms. When they had a spot for me they asked me back. Even though the new job kinda sucks (more customer service than tech), it's better (I guess) than taking an objectively better job some place that will screw me over whenever it suits them.

Re:At least one (1)

mjwx (966435) | about 2 years ago | (#42598559)

Same here. My current employer almost went belly up keeping everyone on without the work. Eventually when faced with either closing their doors, my boss took everyone in a room and explained it had gotten worse, asked who had options and if they were willing to exercise them, and then the remainder were let go with the crystal clear understanding that they did everything they could, that it was certainly not by bad performance on their part, and that should things turn around, they will be the first to get a call.

Contrary to what they teach you at the Ivy league schools, as the employees were treated like reasonable people, they treated the business owners the same way.

This,

In Australia its called voluntary redundancy. It's normally done earlier as employers have to pay out for redundancy. Good employers tend to use this before choosing redundancies.

Bad employers try to find reasons to fire people... then get dragged over the coals by Fair Work Australia. Beyond that, an employer who treats their staff well will find that staff will do the same for their employer, even to the point of taking a voluntary pay cut which is something I saw happen during the GFC (those six employees who took a cut are now earning more than they made in 2008 before the GFC).

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597703)

And a bunch of those probably went bust.

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597953)

Doesn't matter - he said those employers don't exist. I know they do. As does Cryacin above you.

Painting all employers as evil money-grubbing bastards just shows the original poster's political leanings. Well, that and the fact that he is either a fool or a propagandist.

Re:At least one (4, Funny)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about 2 years ago | (#42597759)

"It doesn't really matter. I uh, I don't like my job, and, uh, I don't think I'm gonna go anymore."

Re:At least one (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42598235)

#include <red_stapler.h>

...gonna have to move you downstairs, m'kay?

Re:At least one (2)

karnal (22275) | about 2 years ago | (#42598431)

fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'red_stapler.h': No such stapler.

Re:At least one (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597857)

I have held several government jobs and have worked with a lot of worthless IT people that they keep on for no logical reason. Yeah it doesn't pay as well as the private sector, but the benefits are still pretty good. Not as good as they were and they keep getting cut, but still. But I always left because I wanted to and never was concerned about being downsized.

Re:At least one (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598631)

There is not a single employer out there who won't fire you when keeping you around is more expensive than letting you go.

I'm working for a Fortune 50 company that doesn't do that. They're a pain to deal with in other ways, but there's no doubt that loyalty to/from employees is built into the way they do business.

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597455)

Don't give up. Hope makes the heart grow fonder.

Re:At least one (1)

redneckmother (1664119) | about 2 years ago | (#42597717)

"It's not the despair - I can deal with the despair. It's the HOPE."

Fake jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597573)

Just because a job is listed doesn't mean it is a real job opening. Look at Dice, Careerbuilder, Monster, Indeed, and SimplyHired reposting and reposting job listings week after week. Either the position was filled and the listing never removed, or the job doesn't exist to begin with and it's just for collecting resumes for the future.

Re:Fake jobs (2)

halltk1983 (855209) | about 2 years ago | (#42598067)

Or they have an unrealistic skill / compensation ratio.

Re:Fake jobs (2)

tompaulco (629533) | about 2 years ago | (#42598073)

My company has a real job posted, for a mid-level Java developer. We have received one resume, from someone 1,000 miles away who had Java in his experience somewhere, but not recent and it was not the focus of any previous job.
Of course, my company is too cheap to post on any board that is not free, and I don't think mid-level developers cruise craigslist. I sure don't when I am looking.

Re:Fake jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598107)

Wait, your company was stupid enough to only use Craiglist for a job announcement? Un - damn - believable!

Re:At least one (5, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42597597)

I was (still am) out of work for a long, long time. spent 5 years at a big-name bay area company only to get rif'd when a huge org change happend.

for the first 6 months, I looked and looked hard. companies were not hiring and those that were, were asking for god, himself. nothing you could do would be good enough and the rates were below market, taking advantage of the poor job market.

I gave up, started my own one-man company in the hardware/software area and made some product prototypes. was hoping to bring them to manufacturing but was a bit outside my experience level (I did the hardware design, software/firmware, mechanicals, user interface, pretty much everything, all using home lab equip I bought used on ebay).

FINALLY, once the year turned over, I started getting calls from companies and recruiters. like the flood gates opened! night and day. not sure why, exactly, but I'm not complaining!

it was a very dry period for a few years. fwiw, I have 30+ years writing C code in the networking field and have spent the last 20 yrs in the bay area. yet I could not get anywhere during the dry-spell of the last few years.

I hope this up-turn is going to stay. we have been at bottom long enough!

(wish me luck, too; I have some onsites this and next week).

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597645)

once they see how old you are they'll stop calling, dad

Re:At least one (2)

Synerg1y (2169962) | about 2 years ago | (#42597729)

Sounds like you're an engineer, when your career single tracks on say C programming, you may have to expand your search to national to effectively land a job. Moving is good for you anyways, but it sounds like you proved / demonstrated your skills with your self-start project showing employers a side of you that was either missing or under-represented opening doors. A good example of how to re-enter the job market and demonstrate your value to an org.

Re:At least one (3, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42597809)

its double-edged, though! I was proud of my design and implementation and on some early interviews, I actually took my hardware with me and gave a demo of it if I was allowed. it never went well, for some reason. I think it put some employers off! they thought 'he's too hardware focused and this is a pure software job'. not realizing that there is over 10k lines of c/c++ code in my embedded project, not to mention the linux host side of things (the ip stack).

I got tagged as 'too entreprenurial' and not enough of a team player. go figure! I worked on my own because I had to and I could not afford to hire anyone. that does not mean I avoid group work. but companies are very quick to summary judge you and there is such a thick stack of resumes waiting, they won't spend time with you to see that you are 'not just a hardware guy'.

when I talked about my own company, some people were not sure I'd want to stick around at -their- company. that was not true, as I was (and am) fully ready to make the change back to the corp sw-eng job again, but most companies were not happy to take any chances. 'he might leave!'. gee, that applies to anyone, though.

too much of something or too little. life is about finding the right quantity, I guess ;)

Re:At least one (2)

CptNerd (455084) | about 2 years ago | (#42597863)

HR will always find something when you're actually too old (expensive) in their opinion.

Re:At least one (3, Insightful)

Synerg1y (2169962) | about 2 years ago | (#42597975)

I've never been "hired" by HR, have you? They just screen resumes, a wise career adviser once recommend to me to tailor my resume to the job description if I really want it and include a cover letter. In grateful's case I'd simply state I made this badass project and have all the skills necessary to do it for the potential company, I wouldn't mention the words "entrepreneur", or "own company" anywhere, they play the buzz word game, so should you, it's only fair after all.

Re:At least one (3, Interesting)

GodInHell (258915) | about 2 years ago | (#42597737)

It's the clutch and hold phenomena. You don't spend a penny at the end of your fiscal year that can be saved and reported as additional net revenue as of 12/31. Once the arbitrary deadline is passed, you can start doing the job hunt that you should have started in October. Another example of the efficiency of the invisible hand of the market (i.e. short-term oriented corporate leadership gaming the numbers to increase the stock value, and thus their benefits and pay).

This is mostly limited to publicly traded companies, but any company that emphasizes end of calendar year financials is open to this kind of manipulation. Spend less, make more, at least on paper, and you do better.

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598525)

I've spent time as a consultant for large and mid-sized companies (most of them publicly traded) and see pretty much the opposite of what you are describing. Q4 is always our busiest month because companies are in a scramble to spend any money left in their budget before the fiscal year ends and the clock resets. It's a combination of red tape, politics, and psychology at play.

You are right that senior leadership wants to push the numbers down to improve the stock value, but generally speaking the senior leadership makes and locks in fiscal decisions early in the fiscal year. It is up to middle management to spend and execute once the budgets are set. These guys know how to play the game and it would be political suicide to try to grow their budget year after year -- whomever has the largest pile of cash has the most power.

Let's say as the head of IT, you propose a budget of $1mil to cover existing operating costs and some minor initiatives for the upcoming year. If you only spent $750k by the end of the fiscal year then you over-budgeted and when financial discussions around next year's budget begins you'll have an uphill battle to increase or even maintain your existing budget. You have to spend every single penny, tell senior leadership that you did more with less, that your staff is overworked and underpaid, and that you need additional resources (headcount, infrastructure, etc) next year.

Re:At least one (2)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 2 years ago | (#42598607)

I've spent time as a consultant for large and mid-sized companies (most of them publicly traded) and see pretty much the opposite of what you are describing.

I agree, I've never heard of "clutch and hold" and a google search only turns up automotive references for at least the first three pages of hits. While the opposite - "spend it or lose it" has been SOP for more decades than I've even been alive. FWIW, all of the first three pages of google's hits are variations on the theme of spending it now in order to justify future/continued budget allocations.

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597801)

What annoys me are the clueless recruiter who dare to ask "why have you been out of work more than six months?" as if they don't already know. Don't call me and then harass me!

Or, those who ask me if I know the hiring manager's name. I only fell for that one once with Mike Borgasano used to be at Skillstorm now at KForce, when he had a recruiter call my supervisor at one job and the recruiter practically gave me away when my supervisor asked how the recruiter got his name.

Now I only offer an agency contact or an authorized HR contact, and recruiters are audibly offended they couldn't get a lead from me.

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598269)

I have 30+ years writing C code

Never say you have more than 15 years experience in a particular technology field. It makes you sound like an assembly-line worker or someone who found a rut to curl up and die in.

Re:At least one (2)

Synerg1y (2169962) | about 2 years ago | (#42597669)

*shrug* so be smarter than a sheep and get out as the high tide starts to recede (2-3y is the trend I believe), you only have yourself to blame for outstaying your usefulness. It's just how IT is nowadays, the days when knowing html could net you 6 figures are long gone. If employers start to see their workers rotate themselves, it just might motivate them to improve conditions in IT and offer incentives. Live to work man, live to work...

Re:At least one (1)

GodInHell (258915) | about 2 years ago | (#42597679)

I'm out. Changed careers after the .com bubble.

Re:At least one (2)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 2 years ago | (#42597979)

I love my job, although the beginning of the year is always a bit stressful. We're always looking for people, just not people with you're attitude. ;-) No offense, just trying to point out something that's probably been obvious in a lot of your job interviews. A positive, upbeat person not only outperforms those with a negative outlook, they usually help those around them perform better as well. My one job is to make my boss happy, everything else are just means to that end. Look at it like that, be ok with that, and you'll be amazed how much happier you'll be at work... and how fast you'll get pay raises.

Re:At least one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598595)

All of you are only seeing the employment situation from your IT jobs point of view. Most other fields are laying off, going out of business, outsourcing too. At least you have a skill that requires more knowledge and experience than someone with only high school has. Over the holidays my 22yo sister told me what happened to her friend. Her friend's company was laying off whole departments and closing stores. Her boss told her that if she was willing to do a little extra she wouldn't have to worry about losing her job. She felt she had no choice and agreed. Now she gives her boss a BJ in the office twice a week. My sister said she has heard similar stories from others. If you ask around you will probably hear similar stories. Being desperate makes us all victims one way or the other.

Is the job market real? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597385)

how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned job searches

And similarly, how many job postings really have a job behind them? (As opposed to being a "let's see who's out there" kind of posting.)

Re:Is the job market real? (1)

bogaboga (793279) | about 2 years ago | (#42597479)

. What's not clear, though, is how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned job searches.

How about phrasing the statement this way:

What's not clear, though, is how many unemployed techies aren't being counted because they've abandoned available jobs due to "unfavorable" work conditions.

I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.

Needless to say, I declined the offer....still looking.

Re:Is the job market real? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597625)

I'm on call 365, any hour, and my employers haven't even wanted me to get certifications, on the outside chance I'd think I was worth more.

I do it because that's what I do, and believe it or not, it's kinda hard to get by on welfare alone with zero dependents. :/

Re:Is the job market real? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597685)

> it's kinda hard to get by on welfare alone with zero dependents. :/

so knock up some mexican chicks and live off their welfare payments, that's what most people do

Re:Is the job market real? (1)

Safety Cap (253500) | about 2 years ago | (#42598041)

So you're saying you don't know who your daddy is?

Re:Is the job market real? (4, Insightful)

niado (1650369) | about 2 years ago | (#42597639)

I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.

Needless to say, I declined the offer....still looking.

This may have been sarcasm, and if so, a big whoosh to me, but if you seriously declined a job offer because they wanted you to get some certifications and be on call for 9 weekends per year, you evidently don't really need a job.

Re:Is the job market real? (4, Insightful)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about 2 years ago | (#42597769)

This is the problem though. Give an inch, a mile is taken. What is one more weekend? One less sick day? 30 more minutes to a day? You need to bring your own computer to work on.

Re:Is the job market real? (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42598149)

as long as they don't force you to use windows 8...

ok, I'm half kidding. I'd even tolerate win8 if there was a salary in it ;)

Re:Is the job market real? (1)

mjwx (966435) | about 2 years ago | (#42598697)

You need to bring your own computer to work on.

Gadget allowances rock.

In my last job I bought an A$1800 Asus laptop, rented that back to the company for A$125 a month, over 24 months that's $3000 but that's really what less than what the company saved by me providing my own laptop (insurance et al.) plus I picked my own specs.

Above this I also received a A$500 per year allowance for work related gadgets, so tablets, phones and so forth.

Re:Is the job market real? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598367)

Sounds nice, I am expected to check my email at least hourly. If I am to be unavailable for more than an hour I must send an email to the team letting them know. I am always supposed to be available by phone. Overtime while not madatory is strongly encouraged. Weekend work is volunteer or voluntold your choice. For the first year the IT support phone was 1 of every 4 weeks and would ring as early as 5AM and as late as 2AM.
That being said I was fresh out of college a year and a half ago. I am allowed to touch just about every networking system. Large projects are thrown my way and failure is an option. (The projects just go up the chain) We have recently brought on more staff and things are getting easier. Most importantly I make half decent money and I still really like what I do.

Re:Is the job market real? (4, Informative)

vux984 (928602) | about 2 years ago | (#42597647)

I have been a victim so to speak. You see, I got a job but the employer wanted me to get "up-to-date" certification at my cost, at my time and then commit to working 5 days a week and being on-call at least one weekend every 6 weeks for the first year, then on-call for one of the weekends in two months.

That actually seems pretty reasonable to me; the only point I'd negotiate on would be the certifications at my cost relative to my starting wage and/or signing bonus.

Surely the 5 days a week, and being on call one weekend in 6 wasn't the deal breaker? Doctors deal with the same reality... people don't get sick only from 9 to 5, and computers are no more accomodating. Things break on weekends.

Re:Is the job market real? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597833)

"Work a standard 9-5 week, and be on-call one weekend every month and a half."

Fuck, it's like they're bringing back slavery!

You were not a "victim, so to speak." You were an entitled little shit who didn't want to work, and instead prefer whining about how hard it is to find a job.

Re:Is the job market real? (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#42598007)

Well, I'm pretty sure the statistics are in the "white lie, black lie, statistics" category. Compare these:

Unemployment rate [bls.gov] and Employment-population rate [bls.gov]

Of course a little bit of that can be demographic changes but for the most part it's "hidden" unemployment in people studying, giving up, getting on some kind of benefits - no more of the population is actually employed today than back in late 2009. In the EU they've already started to run out of smoke and mirrors to cover up their unemployment and debt problems. The world economy is already down but right now I think it's more likely to get a kick in the groin than to get up on its feet.

"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597397)

I left school during the bust and had no problems with job offers. In fact I turned down job offers and started my own company. Before you think I'm some guy with a trust fund I took a job working retail to fund my start-up. It's not doing fantastic (5 years in) and I'll be able to retire in a few months if I choose to. I'm 28.

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597529)

When you say "left school" are you talking about high school?

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (3, Funny)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#42597665)

When you say "left school" are you talking about high school?

He's talking about troll school and has been at slashdot ever since...

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597761)

The point of this was if your really a "techie" you won't have an income problem short of some other restraint (location, family, etc).

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (1)

niado (1650369) | about 2 years ago | (#42597683)

It's not doing fantastic (5 years in) and I'll be able to retire in a few months if I choose to. I'm 28.

What the hell definition of "fantastic" are you using??

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (4, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42597871)

I'm over 50 (just barely).

the agism (in the sf bay area) is visible and intense. my healthcare went up A LOT on my 50'th birthday and I have private HI since I'm not employed now and wasn't when I was 50, either.

companies have to pay higher rates for older employees (I'm pretty sure). they also have more legal hurdles to jump thru when they fire you. in general, they don't like older guys. lots of reasons, with very few of them actually good reasons.

fwiw, if you are in the bay area and approach mid 30's, start thinking about an 'exit strategy'. by mid 40's you should have some idea or plan. I did not and I'm paying the price for my lack of forethought (I really didn't believe this, back when I was still young).

maybe other areas of the country are more accepting of us older guys, but the bay area IS NOT! trust me. yes, there are companies that have grey-hairs there but they are usually the minority and very few of them feel totally secure in their jobs, if you ask them and if they answer honestly.

its a shame. some cultures in the world respect and honor age, experience and wisdom. the bay area, fwiw, is NOT one of them ;(

(I wish I could speak one of the asian languages or be able to move there; I am told that the eastern part of the world still DOES honor and respect age and experience.)

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598389)

the agism (in the sf bay area) is visible and intense [...] its a shame. some cultures in the world respect and honor age, experience and wisdom. the bay area, fwiw, is NOT one of them ;(

Some cultures care more for communication skills. If you write like that at work, it's not ageism holding you back. At least pretend like your words are worth reading.

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (2)

LunaticTippy (872397) | about 2 years ago | (#42598449)

You don't have to speak an asian language to be valuable. If you are interested in it, you can make a good living in Hong Kong or China or India. There are a lot of opportunities for people who understand technology and are native English speakers. You can bridge the gap between customers and engineers who speak limited English. You may not make good bay area wages depending on where you go, but you'll make excellent for local cost of living wages.

Re:"techies" unemployed? Maybe those over 50... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598533)

I hate to burst your bubble but Asia is not some magical land where everyone will love you just because you are old. If you worked for the same company for 30+ years and were still working there, and you were native then you'd get some respect. Some 50 year old guy who just shows up looking for a job, in a down economy, would not be respected for his age and experience. Try to drop the comic book nostalgia about a culture you don't have any real experience with beyond your own imagination.

IT Unemployment Rate = No Demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597413)

the unemployment rate among technology professionals is now half that of the national average

That's because they have changed careers due to the lack of a future demand. Most IT people I know are very driven and do not sit around collecting unemployment while waiting for the jobs to come back.

Re:IT Unemployment Rate = No Demand (2)

trippytom (569403) | about 2 years ago | (#42597577)

Here is where I take some offense with the article and the comparisons to 2000/2001. I watched the bubble burst here in the states and then in Europe, and let me tell you during the peak of the dotcom bubble like 50% of folks had any real technical chops. The bandwagon jumping was ferocious, even at good companies.

Just putting it out there ...

Re:IT Unemployment Rate = No Demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597911)

It's happening again. Just yesterday I was reading about a two week Ruby on Rails crash course for non-programmers. Probably about 10% of those people will end up being good developers while the other 90% will be clogging up interview slots for the next 3-4 years.

copyright and patent scams in full gear now (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597425)

yup you guessed it the entire new USA economy is base dyou guess it on a scam based totally in your mind...
NICE
cant wait for people to really wake up and show how much a fraud all this crap really is.
when we get to a point where the ipod5555 is a trillion dollars and we need a few coins form the president to buy one.

Well, doh! (3, Insightful)

Kaz Kylheku (1484) | about 2 years ago | (#42597449)

The dot com bust hit the IT sectory specifically, and followed a huge bubble in which tons of people were found in unnecessary jobs fueled by the gush of easy start-up money.

How can you even compare.

Depends on the Area (2)

Jonah Hex (651948) | about 2 years ago | (#42597485)

Welcome to Detroit, or really, most of Michigan. The same tech jobs posted over and over by the same recruiters... sorting through positions that say "Michigan" but are really redirects to another state... More invective and frustration... While there are a few good recruiting firms local the international recruiters spam the boards and inbox. Unfortunately the market doesn't support many of us who have skills and can't move out of state for whatever reason(s). I'm looking at taking a position and moving to the area it's located in since most commutes to the few "tech hubs" we have left are 1 to 2 hour drives, ironically I'm 20 minutes away from downtown Detroit but decent tech jobs there are few and far between. - HEX

Re:Depends on the Area (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597575)

yeah, job boards are pretty much just filled with fake jobs (which of course the job boards don't mind since it looks like they are active and keeps people coming back), has anyone ever really got a job off a job board? every time i got a job was through networking a job posting on a company website.

Re:Depends on the Area (1)

tompaulco (629533) | about 2 years ago | (#42598125)

I have had the same job in Pittsburgh (I don't live there) spammed at me about 6 times, all by Indian recruiting firms. I don't even bother to respond because they won't present me to the client because I am not an Indian on H1b.

Re:Depends on the Area (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598233)

Yep, I regularly delete jobs from Artech, eTeam, Enterprise Solutions, and RJT Compuquest. Same job, different agencies, all want to know my Visa status (as opposed to Citizenship status) as part of their initial application process.

On the other hand, Collabera may be slower in their process, but I did get a client interview from them (even though the client didn't give me the job).

Congratulations are in order (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597499)

Thank you President Obama!!

Clinton, Gore, Obama. Seems Democrats have the upper hand in technology deployment and job growth.

Re:Congratulations are in order (2)

Tablizer (95088) | about 2 years ago | (#42598113)

Yeah, we need another B*sh war stimulus and B*sh financial bubble.

Isn't this to be expected? (5, Insightful)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about 2 years ago | (#42597525)

The dot-com burst was a tech sector bubble.

The current burst is a finance sector bubble.

How's that finance job market recovery going?

Re:Isn't this to be expected? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597701)

Great. They just announced another round of executive bonuses.

Re:Isn't this to be expected? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597745)

When America is only made of billionaire executives who pay no taxes and welfare dependents who do no work how the hell are we going to afford this huge military? Israel better learn to get along with their neighbors as soon as possible.

Re:Isn't this to be expected? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597825)

I am pretty sure the Israel can out gun most of their neighbors.

Re:Isn't this to be expected? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597967)

Then why do they constantly need to interfere in American politics? Just today Hagel had to be "OKed" by an Israeli senator before he could be confirmed. Also why do American taxpayer have to give them three billion in handouts every year?

Every profession gets a turn to eat Ramen (2)

Tablizer (95088) | about 2 years ago | (#42598059)

How's that finance job market recovery going?

"Will calculate derivative interest for food"

Re:Isn't this to be expected? (2)

thammoud (193905) | about 2 years ago | (#42598647)

In the financial software industry. We hire both software developers and financial operational support and have job openings for both. For every 50 support resumes we get, less than a handful of Java developer applies. There is a huge demand for Java developers in Chicago. I would assume the same applies to other parts of the US.

Different cause of recession (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597527)

The dot com bubble bursting naturally wiped out a lot of tech jobs. And a lot of jobs that were merely idiots with tech-sounding titles.

This current recession was a bank panic on top of a real estate bubble bursting. Not so many tech jobs at stake to start with. I wonder how many of those "new jobs" are just normal turn over for companies, but being counted as the recovery summer we've been hearing about for 3 years.

Important to be flexible (3, Interesting)

fermion (181285) | about 2 years ago | (#42597531)

If one is going to work for a lifetime, I think it is important to flexible. This is why I prefer a good general education rather than have a two year degree where they teach you to use MS Office or configure a windows network. At some point that work is going away, and it sucks to have to look for a job that is becoming obsolete, or at least not as desperate for worker as it one was.

On hopes that people have found other jobs rather than being forced to exist on unemployment until someone gives them back what is essentially their old job. That is what recovery is. People finding work and the economy moving forward. I think it would be better if we educated ourselves for a flexible work load rather than a specific and narrow trade. That is why so many PhD students have trouble finding positions.

need more apprenticeships that why PHD's can get (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#42597659)

need more apprenticeships that why PHD's can get jobs as they have big skills gaps and to much school.

Prediction: Bye-bye "re-shoring" (5, Interesting)

mrheckman (939480) | about 2 years ago | (#42597555)

Employment in high tech is cyclical - boom to bust, followed by boom again. It seems to happen roughly every 10 years (1991, 2001, 2009 come to mind, but there was another boom around 1980). When employment booms, there's a shortage of skilled engineers and programmers, so companies look to off-shore. Meanwhile, the number of CS students in the US skyrockets. Then those students graduate, and not long after, the industry tanks, the job market softens, and there's a local surplus of skilled workers who are suddenly more affordable vis-a-vis off-shore workers. Seeing the surplus of skilled on-shore workers, companies start "re-shoring" -- bringing jobs back to the US. But lots of unemployed engineers and programmers go on to other things and, seeing so many engineers and programmers out of work, CS enrollments plummet. When the next boom hits, there's a shortage of workers again and the cycle continues.

I am about to abandon job search. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597565)

I am about to abandon job search.

I have an excellent academic profile, I have successfully created my own business, and I cannot get a job because I want to switch to a technology where I don't have 2 years of experience.

I have applied for many graduate jobs as well as junior ones but still nothing.

Well, I don't need the money, so I will be programming some open source which I like...

Re:I am about to abandon job search. (1)

mrheckman (939480) | about 2 years ago | (#42597691)

I am about to abandon job search.

I have an excellent academic profile, I have successfully created my own business, and I cannot get a job because I want to switch to a technology where I don't have 2 years of experience.

I have applied for many graduate jobs as well as junior ones but still nothing.

Well, I don't need the money, so I will be programming some open source which I like...

But, if you program open source projects for two years, that will give you the resume-worthy experience you need to get a tech job. But, by then, you'll probably have your own tech business and won't need to look for a job anywhere else.

Re:I am about to abandon job search. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598015)

I am about to abandon job search.

I have an excellent academic profile, I have successfully created my own business, and I cannot get a job because I want to switch to a technology where I don't have 2 years of experience.

I have applied for many graduate jobs as well as junior ones but still nothing.

Well, I don't need the money, so I will be programming some open source which I like...

But, if you program open source projects for two years, that will give you the resume-worthy experience you need to get a tech job. But, by then, you'll probably have your own tech business and won't need to look for a job anywhere else.

I don't like creating tech business any more because I only like the tech part, not the selling and marketing part

And you know: In the beginning everything is about sales and marketing, and almost nothing about tech...

But well, you are right about those 2 years :)

I've abandoned the job market (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597591)

IT nerds are persecuted in america (See recent news for the last few months), I'm going back to the good old ways of work. Once the Dotcom 3.0 bubble bursts "normal" people will give up on computers including Facebook and twitter and revert to 1950's style technology.

Kim Dot-com Bubble? (3, Funny)

gentryx (759438) | about 2 years ago | (#42597629)

Did anyone else read the title and thought "Megaupload's downfall wasn't that bad, wasn't it?" Or did Kim's extensive physique just lose structural integrity?

Can't get started (3, Funny)

Bramlet Abercrombie (1435537) | about 2 years ago | (#42597751)

I've got A+, Network+ and MCP and it's still not enough to get the first job in IT? What gives?

Re:Can't get started (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597849)

lol certifications ain't worth a piss. i had an MCSE when i was a teen, that shit is a joke. try getting an actual degree instead of some worthless cert that just show you can memorize a bunch of multiple choice questions...

Re:Can't get started (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598619)

Funny, I had 0 experience, 1 semester of school, and an RHCT, and that got me a job in Operations for a fortune 50 company. Was a great start, and let me skip the help desk step. Then I had about 4 years experience there, and an RHCE, and got a job as an admin.

Certs aren't worthless, you just have to get the right ones, and keep their value in realistic terms. I didn't get an entry level cert and expect 100k a year, however they're great for a step in the door.

Re:Can't get started (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597859)

I have a BS from SUNY Cum Laude in CS and cant get started? What Gives. Back to mowing lawns !

Re:Can't get started (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598425)

This means you aren't looking hard enough. On the east coast I just switched jobs and I was flooded with jobs(Only two years of exp and I had 4 actual offers within a month for Full time work). Even people straight out of school make more than decent salaries.

Re:Can't get started (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597939)

Unfortunately, that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee. You need experience to back it up; if you're replying on just the certs to get a foot in the door, you'd better have some connections wherever you're applying.

Re:Can't get started (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598147)

The unfortunate part about that it is even worse than your joke - you need $1.70 for a cup of coffee around here...

Re:Can't get started (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598047)

It's all about experience. Look at the job ads.

And it's not about experience in one thing, every ad is an arbitrary list of technologies, and employers insist that you have five years of recent, professional, verifiable experience in each and every technology the employer happens to use.

Do not fall for that "get experience by volunteering" BS. Employers insist on professional experience. Some job ads specifically state they are only interested in your paid experience.

If you makes you feel any better, there are a lot of people with credentials beyond yours that cannot find work in IT. For example, I did not even notice a college degree. An A+, N+, and MCP, are no BFD. Those are not high level certs, and without college, or experience, it's going to be tough to get started.

Good luck.

Re:Can't get started (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598095)

Put an East Indian name on your resume.

Re:Can't get started (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42598285)

what worked for me (decades ago) was to go to a co-op school where you spend some of your college time working at a real company. often doing nothing or nothing much (you are a tax wrote-off, mostly; realize that but be ok with it).

but it gets you work experience on your resume! I think that really helped me out.

if you are not yet in school, DO consider one of the co-op schools. I was at northeastern (boston area) and even with zero work experience, they were able to find some company to take you on and give you your first real start.

things may not be the same anymore, though; this was 30 yrs ago, for me. but I can only imagine that things are harder now, if you are young and starting out.

Depression (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42597843)

I've stopped looking; but I don't know what else to do. I can't get past the idea that everything becomes surveillance in the end. Even the "fun" stuff is just spying on you. I want to unplug, but I don't know how. I think I'm honest-to-God clinically depressed and am torn between seeking help and thinking that any "help" will just drain my bank account and make matters worse.

I think I have enough energy for one more startup; but it's got to be something worthwhile. Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of anything new the computer can do that would be worthwhile. Everything out there is some stupid game or surveillance app. I'm 44 yo. I've been thinking of just doing min wage work, maybe learning about food from the ground up, and perhaps getting a nice winery job some day. I think it might be better for me on the long run.

Local differences (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about 2 years ago | (#42598023)

In California the developer job market was really rough after the dot-com crash. For family reasons it was not practical to move out of state. I even started asking for minimum wage, but no takers*. It was brutal. I ran into some sleazebags who wanted me to lie, cheat, and steal for $. Sleazebags sure know how to find the desperate.

Between that and the offshoring trend, I started looking for an entire new field to go into. I considered 3D animated graphics for presentation to judges and juries in court cases, such as car accident simulation. A new trend at the time. Fortunately the Calif IT industry recovered to some degree after waiting out the storm. But it was the worse few years in my entire life. I still have nightmares about that period.

There are no guarantees in life; take nothing for granted.

* Not an intentional quote from Simon & Garfunkel.

Re:Local differences (4, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#42598127)

I went for an interview (really well known company, everyone wants to work there, or so they think) and when they told me that the job was paying about half of what I made 10 yrs ago (!!), I did not balk. it would have covered the rent, at least, and employment is honorable even if its way below your last several jobs' rates.

they would have no part of me, though. too old, way too overqualified (they said so) and they didn't want to risk taking me on. I did not (at all!) act above-the-job. I honestly would have been fine working there, even for that rate. maybe it would lead to other things or I could establish myself in that company. but no, they never even called back to give closure. (this company is known to be rude to prospective employees, and people still put up with it, too).

employers, please don't turn down those who are 'overqualified' in a tough market. get a feeling for whether they'll stay or jump; but don't just -assume- they'll jump. those who have been out of work would really appreciate the chance and they'd likely be loyal and glad to have the chance to come aboard. if they're older, they'll likely be more stable, too, and not be a job-hopper. believe me, the job-hopping days ended 10 yrs ago or even more.

the tough part is staying positive when you see the ugliness and greed that companies have, when they know its an employer's market. its soul crushing to see the lack of humanity and lack of compassion. it was a learning experience for me and I'm going to try never to do that to anyone, if I'm on the other side of the interview table.

Clearly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42598057)

President Obama has been doing what he said he would do and he has begun the long process of bringing the USA back to prosperity.

http://wh.gov/E8zG

and I bet most of it is temporary (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#42598561)

Thats one of the problems with IT, its a freaking roller coaster, one year your doing good with a big project upgrading the company to the latest and greatest thing. Then another year, often as the big project wraps up, you're out on your ass counting change for gas.

The latest thing always changes, this "hill" is going to the final death of XP, and many people are scrambling to get their decade old systems, software, and data structures up to snuff, once its done they might keep some of the good ones that didnt crack, but most will be back at the bottom of the roller coaster again.

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