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Lenovo Could Take Over RIM

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the there's-always-a-bigger-fish dept.

Blackberry 114

judgecorp writes "China's Lenovo could take over RIM, according to Lenovo chief financial officer Wong Mai Ming, speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos Switzerland. The Canadian authorities might object, and so might BlackBerry users, after what ultimately happened to the ThinkPad brand under Lenovo's guidance. Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said, 'It’s something that we would look carefully at. We always look at foreign investment in Canada as a cause for reflection. We have to look at intelligence concerns.'"

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What happened? (3, Insightful)

gtirloni (1531285) | about 2 years ago | (#42691289)

after what ultimately happened to the ThinkPad brand under Lenovo's guidance

You mean, they would object if RIM devices kept working as before?

Re:What happened? (2)

JackL (39506) | about 2 years ago | (#42691327)

I was wondering that as well.

Re:What happened? (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 2 years ago | (#42691613)

The question in my mind is why lenovo would want to acquire RIM at all. It's like adopting the mangiest, sickliest animal at the shelter.

Re:What happened? (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 2 years ago | (#42692039)

Uh, China + secure (other) government email = large subsidy from China govt.

Re:What happened? (3, Interesting)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about 2 years ago | (#42692379)

The question in my mind is why lenovo would want to acquire RIM at all

"Traditional" computing platform sales continue to flatline (Notebooks / Desktops). Lenovo's attempts at a tablet have, to date, flopped. RIM is currently undervalued and still sells millions of handsets. It's a quick jumpstart into the mobile business for Lenovo.

Re:What happened? (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 2 years ago | (#42692689)

By "flatline", do you mean that no one buys these items anymore?

Or, by "flatline", do you mean that the market is no longer growing?

See, "flatline" is a medical term, to me, implying someone is dead, dead, dead. Obviously, laptop and desktops aren't "dead, dead, dead" because millions of us use them. Newegg and other retailers still offer and sell them.

Using the term to describe markets that no longer enjoy astronomical growth is misleading at best, and probably dishonest.

Re:What happened? (1)

krinderlin (1212738) | about 2 years ago | (#42692947)

Flatline is used commonly in business speak to refer to a market that no longer sees growth. It isn't misleading, you're just using a different context.

However, the connotation you've brought from the medical field is purposely intended. Under the current Commandments of United States Capitalism, failure to grow over last year is a precursor to a long drawn out death spiral that will cost investors a lot. Whether this should be the way of things or not, is beyond the scope of whether or not this term is valid.

TL;DR: This is an actual term in finance and business.

Re:What happened? (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 2 years ago | (#42693117)

I think the death spiral is due to the fact that fewer and fewer people buy these items each year, items which were sold on razor-thin margins anyway.

Re:What happened? (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | about 2 years ago | (#42692957)

Maybe flat but not flatlining. That's RIM. Some facts.

Lenovo’s market share is growing in the beige box market.

The market for beige boxes is flat - i.e. with little to low growth. Partly due to market saturation in the developing market, partly because the emerging market is jumping straight to tables & smartphones.

The market for beige boxes is a commodity market. Sure, there is some difference – particularly in the lap top side, but not much. Mainly it about competing by being more efficient in manufacturing then your competitors – so think high volume with low margins.

Re:What happened? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#42692577)

The question in my mind is why lenovo would want to acquire RIM at all. It's like adopting the mangiest, sickliest animal at the shelter.

Patents?

Re:What happened? (4, Informative)

Enry (630) | about 2 years ago | (#42691353)

Yeah, I'm a bit curious about this too. I've had two Thinkpads since the purchase and both have been as good of quality as when it was IBM.

Re:What happened? (1)

synapse7 (1075571) | about 2 years ago | (#42691793)

I find it odd (and sad) that Lenovo seems to offer the best and most personable support out of any PC manufacturer I've dealt with. Assuming their support has not changed in the last few years.

Re:What happened? (1)

Hel Toupee (738061) | about 2 years ago | (#42691999)

I've been putting Lenovo's on all the desks where I work, and I've found the hardware quality to be middling-to-decent, and the support to be pretty good.

Re:What happened? (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | about 2 years ago | (#42692449)

I bought a T60 shortly after the takeover and it's excellent.

Unfortunately I also bought a X series (the lower cost subnotebooks) two years ago and it was awful. I don't mean in a "Poorly spec'd" kind of way, I mean appalling quality, right down to constant freezes if connected to the wireless because of the way the wireless driver operated. And the other options at the time, in the Thinkpad range, were dreadful, with virtually every larger device having a crappy WXGA screen regardless of computer size and a sad set of CPU/GPU options.

I bought that for my home office. I replaced my T60 a year or so ago with a Dell. That's right, a Dell. NOBODY buys Dells for themselves. But I did. The choice of Thinkpads, coupled with my new experience of Lenovo "quality" pushed me to abandon the laptops I've loved and bought exclusively (one Powerbook excepting) since 1999.

It's only anecdotal evidence (but so was yours...) but I genuinely don't see Thinkpads today as having anything in common with the range at IBM except for having the only decent mobile pointing device in existence. They need to be better quality, and they need to go back to having decent hardware specs - decent screens, CPUs and GPUs.

Re:What happened? (1)

Dr. Evil (3501) | about 2 years ago | (#42692891)

There were a lot of lemon thinkpads in IBM's history. The iSeries was spectacularly crappy. The 570 was flimsy, the 760 line would burn your legs if you used it as a laptop. The crap coming out of Lenovo these days isn't much worse than the worst of IBM's history, so I'm still reserving judgement.

Thinkpads were never a sure thing. You had to know that the line was good before you bought.

Before Lenovo though, the thinkpad X and T models were a rare run of excellence. After Lenovo, they were merely okay. Hopefully they fix it.

Re:What happened? (1)

supremebob (574732) | about 2 years ago | (#42694685)

The ThinkPad T30 also had the "burn your legs if you put it on your lap" issue. The Pentium 4 M processor in that thing ran really hot, and sucked down a fully charged battery in under 90 minutes under load.

Re:What happened? (1)

ArhcAngel (247594) | about 2 years ago | (#42692609)

The only thing I can think of is they broke the ThinkPad long term support model. With the advent of the 6x series you could no longer expect the port replicator/dock or accessories you purchased with your R60/T60 to work with the subsequent R6x/T6x models. For a consumer this is not a big deal but for corporations that buy hundreds to thousands of units a year this is huge. It's akin to Microsoft, Oracle, Red Hat, or Canonical removing key features of their LTS policies. We got burned because our hardware refresh happened right when the R60 came out so we standardized on that model and when they dropped it for the R61 six months later we found the Configure To Order (CTO) we had specced was no longer compatible with our docking configuration. I worked with their support engineers (IBM was still engineering them at the time) and they finally decided it was simply incompatible despite being standards compliant.

Re:What happened? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#42692617)

That's because they were fully outsourced by IBM to Lenovo. The only thing that changed was the label. The Canadian Finance Minister needs to think before he speaks, or at least have staff people who can think for him.

Re:What happened? (2)

rwven (663186) | about 2 years ago | (#42691371)

Yeah... I was under the impression that Lenovo was doing very well. I personally feel that they made some of the best quality devices...even if they happen to be a little more on the "utilitarian" and "ugly" side of things.

Re:What happened? (-1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | about 2 years ago | (#42692529)

Let's see... chiclet keyboard, move to 6-row keyboard layout (no more grouped F-keys, no Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn grouping), and this abomination (coming soon!):

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/ThinkPad-T431s-User-Guide-amp-Pictures/m-p/993279/highlight/true#M73300 [lenovo.com]

Non-removable battery, trackpoint buttons nixed (they're now integrated in the top of the trackpad), an even bigger trackpad (aka space-waster)...

Two more generations and we'll be looking at black MacBook clones.

Re:What happened? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#42692705)

Let's see... chiclet keyboard, move to 6-row keyboard layout (no more grouped F-keys, no Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn grouping), and this abomination (coming soon!):

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/ThinkPad-T431s-User-Guide-amp-Pictures/m-p/993279/highlight/true#M73300 [lenovo.com]

Non-removable battery, trackpoint buttons nixed (they're now integrated in the top of the trackpad), an even bigger trackpad (aka space-waster)...

Two more generations and we'll be looking at black MacBook clones.

Ummm, it's an ultrabook. How many ultrabooks have removable batteries? As for the bigger trackpad, well, they could have used a smaller screen, which would have allowed a smaller case or used this screen with a lot of plastic around the trackpad instead. I do agree, though, I don't like trackpad buttons at the top of the trackpad instead of the bottom (where my thumb can hit them). However, if using the trackpoint, having them at the top of the trackpad works out pretty well.

Re:What happened? (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | about 2 years ago | (#42692809)

Does it really matter that it's an Ultrabook? Call it whatever you want, it's still a T Series Thinkpad... :(

Re:What happened? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#42696847)

Yes it matters. An iPad isn't a Powerbook and an ultrabook isn't a full laptop either. All of those devices are designed for different needs and using the wrong one based on one's need is sure to be frustrating.

Re:What happened? (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | about 2 years ago | (#42692549)

Yeah, I have a collection of ThinkPad laptops that date back to the early 90's and their overall look has not changed very much, but they're damn solid machines. Even the oldest one can still run its OS. If it ain't broke, don't break it.

Re:What happened? (1, Informative)

loufoque (1400831) | about 2 years ago | (#42691409)

While Thinkpads have essentially stayed the same (some would disagree, but I still find them to be of good quality), the services associated with the purchase, such as support and warranty, have become way worse than they used to be.
This was to be expected though.

Re:What happened? (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 2 years ago | (#42691537)

With what remains of the laptop computer market, we probably won't see decent customer service again. Prices and costs are cut to the bone because it's an industry that is in its final years. There's no incentive to premium-price becuase that market is so small. Cheap componentry and minimal support are the new normal in this industry. If you want more, the answer regrettably is probably Apple.

Re:What happened? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691563)

I work at an ASP for Lenovo, and if you're talking about their 'Think' branded stuff... the part fulfillment is still handled by IBM. The same ASPs are providing support. There are the same if not more warranty options as before. Perhaps you are talking about call centers? I've talked to them and they don't seem any worse or better than any other big brand OEM call center. Not sure how anything is 'way worse' - sounds like your perspective.

I expected things to get worse, and was somewhat surprised when they didn't.

Re:What happened? (1)

QuantumBeep (748940) | about 2 years ago | (#42696803)

and they don't seem any worse or better than any other big brand OEM call center.

This is not the yardstick of customer support. IBM Thinkpad support used to be miles ahead of everyone else.

In general, the customer support in the PC industry is stupendously bad. Now Lenovo's support is also horrible.

Re:What happened? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691591)

Worse? How, exactly?

I've kept buying T/X series, they come with 3 year warranty, and never had any trouble with support. Care to elaborate and share some horror stories?

Recently my battery kinda half-died in X220, called the support, they didn't ask too much details, just said "Yeah sounds like your battery died, we'll ship you new one" and that arrived 2 days later. As far as I know, the same people and old IBM resellers in other countries still handle the support...

Re:What happened? (3, Insightful)

scifiai (2740685) | about 2 years ago | (#42691431)

As I type this on a Lenovo ThinkPad T520i, I think to myself that the ThinkPad is the best laptop on the market.

Re:What happened? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691577)

I love my StinkPads and run them at work and at home. They are second only to MacBookPro in terms of build quality and reliability.

Re:What happened? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692015)

MacBooks have a magnesium rollcage now? And spill-resistant keyboard? It's the other way around. Macs are second only to ThinkPads

Re:What happened? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692025)

Yeah not sure what they meant by that. I've been using Thinkpads since the T20 and my W520 is running strong. Probably the best laptop I've ever had.

I know they changed their keyboards up recently on the 430/530 series, but to be honest, I kinda like them.

Re:What happened? (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | about 2 years ago | (#42692583)

Try a T530, with the 6-row tictac keyboard... and then look here:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/ThinkPad-T431s-User-Guide-amp-Pictures/m-p/993279/highlight/true#M73300 [lenovo.com]

THAT is where Lenovo is taking Thinkpads.

As a fellow T520i user (btw, swap out the display for the 1080p one... it's AWESOME!), let me be the first to say: We're fucked!

Re:What happened? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42695785)

The new keyboard is pretty nice, and honestly I think the traditional Thinkpad keyboard was starting to get a little played out. The new keyboard is quieter, less key travel than the older ones, and still feel pretty solid.

And thank christ, they kept the trackpoint.

Re:What happened? (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 2 years ago | (#42691535)

It's not like RIM is doing a sterling job with the Blackberry brand anyway. Their new OS has been coming along for how long now?

Re:What happened? (1)

Octorian (14086) | about 2 years ago | (#42692037)

And its basically ready, gold, good to go, with the public launch this coming Wednesday.

Re:What happened? (1)

steevven1 (1045978) | about 2 years ago | (#42691879)

+1...I loved having an IBM logo on my computer as much as anyone, but my Lenovo ThinkPad X220 is still an excellent machine.

Re:What happened? (1)

Sir_Sri (199544) | about 2 years ago | (#42691979)

Unlike IBM and thinkpad, where the company wasn't in any risk of bankruptcy, it was just not part of the new strategic plan, RIM is a whole other ballgame. They could well be completely bankrupt and liquidated in a couple of years and if someone is dumb enough to pay billions for it we (as in canada) should probably happily take their money. A change in direction might save the company, and failing that billions of dollars is better than not billions of dollars.

Re:What happened? (0)

bemymonkey (1244086) | about 2 years ago | (#42692455)

You must not have heard the latest news... Lenovo is nixing the trackpoint buttons in favor of a bigger touchpad (seriously!):

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/ThinkPad-T431s-User-Guide-amp-Pictures/m-p/993279/highlight/true#M73300 [lenovo.com]

I'm typing this from a (freakin awesome!) Thinkpad right now, but if these changes are implemented into the main T/X/W series lines, I'm gonna be typing from a MacBook Pro pretty soon...

Re:What happened? (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | about 2 years ago | (#42692615)

So if they remove the trackpoint buttons, then you'll switch to a laptop that also does not have trackpoint buttons?

Re:What happened? (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | about 2 years ago | (#42692743)

Yes, if only out of spite.

If I don't have a working trackpoint, I might as well get a retina display in exchange...

Re:What happened? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42695813)

The trackpoint buttons are now the top of the touchpad. They haven't disappeared completely.

It's about time they come to a sensible trade-off instead of having two separate sets of physical buttons that do the same thing.

Re:What happened? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42698009)

Okay, so tell me how to use the new integrated Thinkpoint buttons with a disabled trackpad.

Re:What happened? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692497)

after what ultimately happened to the ThinkPad brand under Lenovo's guidance

My W520 bought under a year ago seems to be as good as the oldies. Dropped it onto a hardwood floor from up high, landed on a corner, can't tell where it hit. Spilled a full glass of wine over the keyboard. Had to replace keyboard, but underlying hardware all protected.

What's the problem?

Unfortunate Name (1)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about 2 years ago | (#42691303)

I always felt Rim was an unfortunate name now it looks like they may have to bend over :D

Re:Unfortunate Name (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691413)

But if this deal goes through, it will result with greater employment at RIM.

Taking over RIM is not making any difference (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691313)

RIM is dead.

Who feeds on the carcass is not news for nerds, it's news for vultures.

Re:Taking over RIM is not making any difference (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691491)

You are incorrect. RIM has positive cash flow, no debt, and significant capital assets and cash. RIM is far from dead and with their new offerings have continued opportunity to grow.

Another thing to consider - RIM is still has the only FIPS compliant smart phone on the market. That means that any government agency that needs to send "secret" data to remote agents will almost certainly use this device set.

Re:Taking over RIM is not making any difference (1)

Bigbutt (65939) | about 2 years ago | (#42692073)

Not if Lenovo buys it.

[John]

Re:Taking over RIM is not making any difference (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | about 2 years ago | (#42692231)

You are incorrect. RIM has positive cash flow, no debt, and significant capital assets and cash. RIM is far from dead and with their new offerings have continued opportunity to grow

I think your key word here is “opportunity”, because right now they are in a tail spin.

All of the keys stats you quote are declining in the past 2 years. They are selling fewer phones at a lower cost. Yes, they have secure phones. They could survive as a small niche player selling only to a select few – until somebody else decides to make one. Remember when Apple had 5% market share vs. WinTel? It struggled financially.

It doesn’t mean they can’t turn it around – but I can’t see an easy fix.

Re:Taking over RIM is not making any difference (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692385)

You and your silly facts contribute nothing to this discussion. We all know RIM is dead because it feels right when we say it. That's all the evidence we need.

Too little cash and unattractive products (4, Insightful)

sjbe (173966) | about 2 years ago | (#42692593)

RIM has positive cash flow, no debt, and significant capital assets and cash

RIM has had an operating loss for the last 4 straight quarters [google.com] . While you are correct that the company isn't on financial life support (yet), their prospects are not looking especially cheery. Their cash hoard is around $3 billion which while substantial is tiny compared to Google, Apple, Microsoft and Samsung. All their major competitors have extremely strong balance sheets, far stronger than RIM. It's a bit like playing poker when everyone at the table has a much larger pile of chips. You still can win but the odds are not in your favor.

RIM is far from dead and with their new offerings have continued opportunity to grow.

The sales numbers for RIM's products are do not back you up. Competing products from Apple and Android makers are in far higher demand. RIM's product line is pretty widely considered to be not competitive. While RIM might succeed yet with some brilliant new products, there is little evidence so far that we should expect anything that will put them ahead of the curve.

Another thing to consider - RIM is still has the only FIPS compliant smart phone on the market.

Which is something that the majority of the market could not care less about. At best it gives them some breathing room for a little while. But the number of people who really need that level of security is a pretty small fraction of the overall market. RIM needs a product offering with much broader appeal and significant advantages over the competition. Right now this is a battle they are losing and losing badly.

Re:Taking over RIM is not making any difference (4, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#42691585)

The way I understand it is that while RIM is struggling in North America, they're still pretty dominant in the rest of the world. And the rest of the world is still a pretty big market.

Re:Taking over RIM is not making any difference (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42693063)

The way I understand it is that while RIM is struggling in North America, they're still pretty dominant in the rest of the world. And the rest of the world is still a pretty big market.

I think you need to look at real numbers instead of antedotes... RIM is struggling nearly everywhere...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/technology/20121128_RIM.pdf

Here's a smattering of numbers for new phone sales (for Oct 2011 -> Oct 2012) those that don't want to read the link....

USA: 8.5% -> 1.6% (expected)
UK: 19% -> 7.9%
France: 16% -> 7%
Spain: 23.7% -> 3.4%
Brazil: 8.7% -> 2.7%

Only in germany they increased share from 1.6% to 2.5%

Even if their installed base is large (which it isn't 80M active users vs 1B smartphones total), I don't think any of these numbers can be considered "dominant".

Re:Taking over RIM is not making any difference (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42694863)

More correct than most people think. In the USA, they are not doing well.

In some countires, they are dominant. In others, they were but market share is eroding (England for example).

I think a quarter or two ago, the Playboook outsold the iPad in Canada.

The thing is, there are places like India with 1.2 billion people and maybe half of them have smartphones. There is a huge untapped market with no built in loyalty.

concerns? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691331)

We have to look at intelligence concerns.

is it just me or is that a little bit racist? Chinese people aren't less intelligent.

Re:concerns? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691411)

I guess they meant "intelligence" as in "intelligence agency". That is, it's about the fear that the Chinese government might spy on RIM users.

Re:concerns? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691611)

WHOOOSH!

Re:concerns? (1)

cdrguru (88047) | about 2 years ago | (#42691909)

Let's see, might China have an incentive to make some changes so they could listen in on all communications with BlackBerry phones in use by the US government?

Gosh, I suppose the might.

As BlackBerry is the only certified secure phone presently, having the company in the hands of a pretty much hostile trading partner might just be a bad idea for both US and Canada.

Re:concerns? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 2 years ago | (#42692193)

If security depends on who owns the company (rather than baked into the device and supporting equipment), then it wasn't secure in the first place.

You can't trust anybody.

thinkpad (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691339)

So what is alleged here that happened to the ThinkPad brand under Lenovo?

It seems to me ThinkPads continue to be solid laptops under Lenovo, as they were under IBM.

Ilona Zuczek is a whore. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691341)

First Post

The Kingdom could buy RIM.

Nothing wrong with ThinkPads (1)

dgillmor (34127) | about 2 years ago | (#42691417)

While there's been some backsliding on customer service -- IBM set an unequalled standard in this area -- the ThinkPads are still at the top of the class in the PC space. Since moving to Linux I've run only ThinkPads, which are solid and (except for their new ultrabook) easily user-upgradable. Even the help, when I've needed it, has been fine. The customer service issue I had was a very late delivery with poor communications from Lenovo while I was waiting for my most recent model (T430s).

Re:Nothing wrong with ThinkPads (2)

gmack (197796) | about 2 years ago | (#42691511)

How do you define "easily user-upgradable"? Of the major notebook brands, only HP joins them in BIOS locking their mini PCIE slot so that third party wireless cards cause the machine not to boot. That's hardly customer friendly.

Re:Nothing wrong with ThinkPads (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691645)

The T series are great. I am not sure if the less expensive notebooks in the Lenovo line are as good.

Re:Nothing wrong with ThinkPads (0)

bemymonkey (1244086) | about 2 years ago | (#42692677)

Goddamnit, I feel like an idiot posting this 10 times, but everyone keeps saying Thinkpads are fine... they're not:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/ThinkPad-T431s-User-Guide-amp-Pictures/m-p/993279/highlight/true#M73300 [lenovo.com]

I for one am freakin terrified (I love my Thinkpads)...

This would probably kill all US Federal contracts (3, Insightful)

CuriousGeorge113 (47122) | about 2 years ago | (#42691463)

After examining how the United States treats Huawei networking gear, I'm sure this would kill all the US (and State/Local) government contracts with RIM.

US Government contracts are one of the few highlights of RIM's business right now.

Re:This would probably kill all US Federal contrac (4, Interesting)

internerdj (1319281) | about 2 years ago | (#42691623)

I had a discussion at work with a mapping vendor. They were involved with discussions on mobile device support. From what he had seen, the survival of RIM to this point and beyond was related to the way they play ball with the government in regards to encryption compared to other companies. Apparently, Apple flat out said no.

Re:This would probably kill all US Federal contrac (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42694895)

False.

The reason RIMM is still around is becauset hey have actually been growing their subrscriber base every year (even this year). Your comment seemsto be the typcial "the USA is all there is" opinion.

Re:This would probably kill all US Federal contrac (1)

steelfood (895457) | about 2 years ago | (#42694983)

I know RIM will give the government its encryption keys at the drop of a hat, but I figure Apple'd do the same too. Unless Apple was actually refusing to not give it to the U.S. government at the drop of a hat.

Re:This would probably kill all US Federal contrac (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | about 2 years ago | (#42692345)

Huawei is an opaque company. We are not sure who owns. We know there is a relationship with the Chinese military but we are not sure exactly what it is.

Lenovo, on the other hand, operators much more like a standard international company that just happens to be located in China. It has offices, engineers and factors in the US. I would assume a good chunk of RIMs offices would remain in Canada.

In short, it would be easier to establish that security was being done right with Lenovo then Huawei. I have concerns about China – let’s just make sure our fears or rational.

No... you don't do that !!! (1)

martiniturbide (1203660) | about 2 years ago | (#42691469)

You don't say "we may buy", "we could buy", "we could do...". You do it and your announce it later. Haven't learn anything from Léo Apotheker?

Concerned about Canadian Intellegence? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691501)

I'm curious what they are hiding they don't want the Chinese to see aside from how RIM encrypts a lot to make Mid Eastern countries and India upset.

Encrypted communications? (1)

Tweezak (871255) | about 2 years ago | (#42691559)

The Blackberry devices have been a favorite among lawyers and government workers for a long time because they were inherently more secure than similar portable email/telephony devices. Considering the Chinese government's position on encrypted devices and communications I seriously doubt the Blackberry as we know it would continue to exist. And even if it did...would you trust it?

Blackberry & Thinkpad? (4, Funny)

wirefarm (18470) | about 2 years ago | (#42691573)

Does China have some sort of late-1990s nostalgia thing going on that I haven't heard of?

Re:Blackberry & Thinkpad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691893)

Maybe they should buy Hostess while they're at it. Blackberries and Twinkies!

Re:Blackberry & Thinkpad? (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#42692253)

Companies with a lot of solid technology that aren't particularly trendy taking a big slump in the market and thus can be had for a fairly cheap? Sure. The value at Wall Street is pretty well measuring customer appeal, but China isn't interested in buying customers they're interested in buying technology which makes their valuation quite different.

concerns (0)

v1 (525388) | about 2 years ago | (#42691619)

"... We have to look at intelligence concerns.'"

I think what concerns the educated public the most is RIM's lack of intelligence

Just because an industry is based on your home turf is no excuse to allow embarrassing performance to continue to drag itself out. If Lenovo thinks they can "fix" RIM, I say let them try. They can't really do much worse at this point. Any business that's not totally dominate by a PHB should have by now at least started diversifying critical resources away from reliance on RIM.

Re:concerns (1)

CCarrot (1562079) | about 2 years ago | (#42692113)

"... We have to look at intelligence concerns.'"

I think what concerns the educated public the most is RIM's lack of intelligence

Awww, you beat me to it!

Any business that's not totally dominate by a PHB should have by now at least started diversifying critical resources away from reliance on RIM.

Sadly true. And even more sadly...BB is the only device authorized for 'business' use for many companies in Canada. Is it because of too many PHB's, or too much IT inertia? I'm not sure. All I hear when I ask is that 'BB is the only secure platform', and they simply don't trust anyone else. That may have been true 10, or even 5 years ago, but now?

Anyhow, *picks up the popcorn*, let's sit back and enjoy the show! :)

I have a lenovo thinkpad... (3, Informative)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 2 years ago | (#42691647)

I don't feel that Lenovo really changed anything too badly with the thinkpad line. Granted, I wouldn't buy a thinkpad edge, but the T series that I purchased works great. I've had it for over 2 years and the only problem I had was with a faulty shift key on my keyboard, which they resolved by sending out a new one for me to replace myself (much better IMHO than certain other vendors who would have asked me to send it to them).

I don't really see the difference between IBM thinkpad and Lenovo thinkpad as being significant.

Re:I have a lenovo thinkpad... (2)

Hel Toupee (738061) | about 2 years ago | (#42692077)

Typing this on my T520 right now. The reason there isn't any difference in the ThinkPad branded equipment is because Lenovo bought them, but didn't change anything. Factories stayed the same. Distribution, Management, Fulfillment, and R&D never changed - just Chinese cashing the checks and paying the bills now. Now, the 'Idea' branded stuff is different - and I think that the Edge is technically their consumer-grade junk. I wouldn't touch any of that.

Re:I have a lenovo thinkpad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42694009)

I'd recommend against the SL410. I got mine cheap, and it's been nothing but disappointment until I finally gave up on thinking about it as a real computer and decided to make it an art exercise. I'm happy to report wrapping the entire case in metal duct tape didn't make it any less reliable.

Not that that's saying much.

And then... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42691763)

People would leave RIM by the truckloads for fear everything they do will be seen by the chinese government. Just as people fled from IBM desktops when Lenovo took over.
Lets face it, any Chinese company is going to be partly owned by the government.

T430 (4, Informative)

Frankie70 (803801) | about 2 years ago | (#42691975)

So what happened to Thinkpads after Lenovo purchased it?

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad T430. I find it to be a very good laptop.

I have only 1 problem with it.
There are tons of programs it comes preinstalled with
- Evernote
- Intel AppUp(SM) center
- Intel WiDi
- Intel Control Center
- Intel Management Engine Components
- Intel OpenCL SDK
- ThinkVantage Communication Utlity

and lot more stuff. But I think lot of extra software shipped even when this was from IBM.

If someone could publish a list of stuff which could be uninstalled, it would be great.

Re:T430 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692337)

From the list youve posted, everything can be uninstalled.
(Unless of course you use Evernote, then may as well leave it)
If your laptop actually supports WiDi and you can use it with your TV, then go for it, but Ive never kept it on ours.

The Thinkpads Ive been getting for the company are all imaged with our company's Win 7 image, and the only Lenovo software I include is the Lenovo system update and power manager.
Neither of which you "need", but I find them to be two pieces of great software and have kept them on the company laptops for years.

One thing you may want to look at is what CD/DVD softwatre they include now.
I dont look at the base software package anymore, but If you dont have one you prefer then you may want to keep theirs.

Re:T430 (2)

redfox2012 (1150371) | about 2 years ago | (#42692445)

If someone could publish a list of stuff which could be uninstalled, it would be great.

I'm guessing:

- Evernote
- Intel AppUp(SM) center
- Intel WiDi
- Intel Control Center
- Intel Management Engine Components
- Intel OpenCL SDK
- ThinkVantage Communication Utlity

We just rolled out 190 of the L series and started with a clean image; the only thing Lenovo support were keen to see put back was the battery saver tool.

More love for Lenevo here, never had such a positive response to a laptop roll out!

Re:T430 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42696453)

PC Decrapifier [pcdecrapifier.com] used to be quite good. I haven't used it in a few years, though, so YMMV.

You can probably kill all of that stuff, although evernote is useful for taking notes. I'm using it as part of my job and it's been great for tracking all the little notes and thoughts that spring up in development.

That said, if it was me, I'd just wipe everything and install clean.

You had to know this was coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692257)

So, if Lenovo do buy RIM, and manage to turn things around enough to start hiring again (wait for it), will they then be said to be giving out RIM jobs?

Another desperate attempt to sink RIM? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692487)

I don't think RIM needs to be rescued and as you can see, RIM have no comment on this "news". It is probably another attempt orchestrated by Apple, Google, and the gang to sink RIM. Obviously, if RIM is to become a Chinese company then the US should consider staying away RIM devices and services due to potential national security issues. Just FUD, is what it is.

Re:Another desperate attempt to sink RIM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42693789)

Apple and Google have nothing to do with it.

This is an attempt to manipulate the stock price. As always.

No upside then (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42692509)

I would not buy a RIM phone then. BTW this would also kill any chance of stock recovery. RIM can be perceived as a good company/product having bad times, but after Chinese takeover it will be perceived as a company/product that WAS good before the takeover. AND it will be correct, if you follow what happened to Grundig, for example - a steady decline in product quality. I heard the same thing about the ThinkPad, but I don't even bother to check if this is true or not - I would rather buy Acer, know what to expect

Since when? (2)

ArhcAngel (247594) | about 2 years ago | (#42692893)

Since when does “We are looking at all opportunities -- RIM and many others,” automatically translate into "We are taking over RIM"? Seeing how countries are treating ZTE and Huawei [enterprise...planet.com] in the network space Lenovo would be crazy to buy RIM [crackberry.com] (Everyone knows RIM has a global network infrastructure right?). It does however make a lot of sense to partner with them to offer devices outside of RIM's current core.

Canadian Government BB Usage (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42693725)

There are special versions of the Blackberry that allow Canadian government users to access their various classified e-mail systems and networks. I don't imagine they want a Chinese company to have access to those communications.

Burn (1)

WizADSL (839896) | about 2 years ago | (#42695909)

It seems to me that if Lenovo goes through with this, they're going to get burned. I don't think many businesses would trust China not to peek into the data going through those Black Berrys and the devices will be dropped like hot potatoes. If Lenovo's strategy is about getting their hands on patents, then that may be an acceptable consequence to them.

"The Canadian authorities might object,"? (0)

rueger (210566) | about 2 years ago | (#42696397)

Yeah, right. Stephen Harper would happily sell his own mother to the Chinese... as he did with a big chunk of the tar-sands, over American objections.

Jim Flaherty ..... Intelligence Concerns (1)

stoicio (710327) | about 2 years ago | (#42697755)

Hmmmm.....intelligence concerns......
The party that sells out citizens info to foreign powers at every turn,
or worse loses everyones data on a portable hard disk, or just looks the other way
while personal information is bled and leaked from government databases by
public employees (ex, bored, or otherwise).

I think I'll just move to China. It's safer.

The Chinese govt owning all that security (1)

gelfling (6534) | about 2 years ago | (#42697913)

I can hear thousands of corporate and government accounts bailing when China and by definition the Chinese government and army get their hand on all the secure data and transmissions that RIM has. BB's are in fact the only handset allowed in many US Federal agencies because of the security. Not anymore.

ain't gonna happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42698053)

Ain't gonna happen. US or Canadian govt communicating over a China own infrastructure won't be allowed. The sale won't happen no matter how much Lenovo wants it.

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