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RIM's BB10 Campaign Requires Some Serious Work

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the market-share-is-for-closers dept.

Blackberry 171

adeelarshad82 writes "With the BlackBerry 10 launch just around the corner, there is a lot of pressure on RIM's CEO to provide a 'Steve Jobs Moment.' However, given BlackBerry's 1.1% percent market share compared to the combined 92% share between rivals Android and iOS, it's a long road back. To add to the struggle, no other first-generation smartphone leader has been able to pull off this kind of rebirth. Palm and Symbian are dead and Microsoft is struggling. But, as one mobile analyst explains, RIM has a chance to carve out its own market with tomorrow's launch of BlackBerry 10 given that they get a few things right. They need to heavily promote their devices to CEOs, heavily promote the top apps to users, and most of all, they need to be able to explain why people should give it a look."

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I'll say. They need to (1, Flamebait)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730281)

All they need to do is build a time machine and release BB10 three years ago when they still had a chance. Is that too hard?

Re:I'll say. They need to (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730665)

All they need to do is build a time machine and release BB10 three years ago when they still had a chance. Is that too hard?

No they said a Steve Jobs moment. So that would mean claiming to have invented everything years ago personally.

Re:I'll say. They need to (1)

Pieroxy (222434) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731415)

Actually, RIM is the one company that surprised me most (by their success) in the past 5 years (since the release of the iPhone).

Palm was already dead and their HP story was pitiful (blame HP here)
Nokia did shoot themselves where it hurts most - their own wallet.
Everyone else jumped in the Android bandwagon
RIM continued to sell a shitload of their pieces of crap for years and years before they really went under. And make no mistake, a comeback now would be short of a miracle. It's just not in their DNA to build something user friendly, sexy and fun. And if nothing else, that's what the iPhone and Androids have shown the world a phone could very well be while being a real tool at the same time. Granted, there still are a few minor areas where BB shines (such as productivity) but it's really meaningless now.

What a terrible headline (0)

Zeromous (668365) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730325)

So does it need serious work, or does RIM need to seriously work hard?

The ambiguity is smarmy, like many headlines on slashdot these days. Clearly it is intentional, since no one is actually interested in a re-report of the obvious, am I right?

It couldn't be that actual nerds are interested in what RIM is doing, not what some dolt thinks they should be doing (right after they explain how impossible the whole thing is).

Keep it up slashdot and I won't keep coming back. I tire of this nonsense.

Why to CEOs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730329)

Because they are, as a class, idiots and know nothing about technology.

WANK WANK WANK

Re:Why to CEOs? (2)

AuMatar (183847) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730475)

Because the big feature of Blackberrys was always business features, like exchange integration and email encryption. Iphone and Android have been eating away at this market. This advice is to tie them up again. Too little too late, but it would have been sound advice 4 years ago.

Re:Why to CEOs? (5, Insightful)

Daetrin (576516) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730911)

My company has a iPad app for interfacing with our software. We don't have an Android app (though as an afterthought we have started developing an "agnostic" HTML5 interface.) Why is that? It wasn't because of market studies or user feedback or anything like that. It was because our CEO got an iPad, and she really liked it. So she thought we ought to be able to use our software with an iPad.

It doesn't matter how dumb you think CEOs are on average (though i've got to say, our CEO is pretty smart in general, even if i don't agree with her on this one decision) they can have a massive influence on what direction a company takes. Whether it's deciding which platforms to develop software for or what brand of phone the company will supply or something else i'm not even thinking of, if you can convince a bunch of CEOs that your product is a great thing there's probably something they can do to help you out.

Indeed, same with OSX and Linux (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731663)

I never had it easier getting to use a Linux desktop in a Windows environment then when the Director/Owner/etc has a Mac. Oh you want Linux, that is the same as OSX right, sure no problem, IT will make it happen, just tell them I send you". Much seething from Windows admins but they got to support it because the boss said so.

It is something sales/marketing people tend to forget. Things happen because they are made to happen by the rather random taste of people who have influence. In Holland a rather famous case is where a comedian made a joke about brand of beer and its sales NOSEDIVED. Crackberry's were IT! And then the iPhone was IT.

What does this mean? That you must do TWO things. Keep doing the same thing AND innovate. You do the same thing to keep the customers who made their choice and you innovate to catch new customers AND keep the ones who bought your product but want something new.

That is why companies die when they become efficient and save on R&D because R&D isn't efficient and we got good products now what is left to research and develop? What happens is then that your customers die off (in some longer running industries literally) and aren't replaced. You become the old fogy brand, still selling but to a declining audience. Ask Sony.

And you never see that coming because it seems for the longest time that your competition has even less of a clue. Lets remember just how long Apple was NOT part of the smartphone market compared to how long they ruled it AND how long Samsung has been ruling it now (total sales vs single model sales).

Things... change...

Apple stopped innovating, there have been LOTS of innovative cell phone designs, none of them from Apple, even their design is not their own. Oblong phone mostly screen? The XDA was that 10 years ago.

Samsung has enormous issues with support, what updates you get and when is a lottery, you are going to loose. Cyanogenmod is a nice enough idea but it can't keep up. Cooking your own is possible but it makes running linux a decade ago seem like a cakewalk. Meanwhile it is pretty obvious that if do persist, it is possible to get a LOT more performance out of Samsungs devices then their own software can. Not suprising when you realize the difference between CM+Gapps and Samsungs official roms is 300mb. Half the size.

The world... well me and the world revolves around me, is ready for a mobile phone that is more PC like. Open, kept up to date easily and easily modified to suit my tastes. Or maybe it is ready for a phone that isn't the lightest or thinnest but has a serious battery so it simply can run for several days. Or real fast multitasking with phones finally getting some real memory akin to PC's. Or a phone that pulls a Nokia, tells the US telco's to go screw themselves and makes phones based around the idea of selling hardware not software.

IT might seem like it is ruled for ages by the same giants but that is just because people have bad memories, things change all the time and enemies you thought un-important rip your head off when you least expect it. Take Linux, for a decade we talked about the year of the desktop and nobody even heard of the name. Then Apple launches OSX and suddenly people who buy Macs know what Unix is and a search engine company and a no-brand tv maker use Linux and Java (another "year off" product) to give MS and its victim (Nokia) a beating that so far has left Ballmer gasping for air.

For years everything a CEO knew was windows software, suddenly it had become an iOS app and now Android has gained root, HTML5 is getting a massive boost out of nowhere (Jobless? Become a frontend developer, they can't get them at all).

It will be intresting to see what this year is going to produce. Will Samsung and Apple do something original or just an S4, Note 3 and iPhone 6? Will whatever meego is called now produce a phone by a company doing the radical thing of actually selling it in the west? Will Blackberry recover form the their tablet failure?

I will be disappointedif 2013 ends and we still have slab telephones with the same tired old interfaces.

Re:Why to CEOs? (1)

Critical Facilities (850111) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731737)

This. Exactly this.

I know it's popular for everyone to go on and on about how all CEOs are morons, and how if they'd just listen to us geeks more often, the wheels of commerce would turn so much easier, but this type of thing (for better or for worse) happens ALL THE TIME in corporate America. In my opinion, Blackberry should not have tried to expand their market to compete with other smartphones at all. They should have recognized their dominance in corporate deployments and done everything they could to cater to those customers. Sure, it's an "eggs in one basket" strategy, but you're dealing with huge, Fortune 500 companies who do not make company-wide hardware decisions lightly, and usually cringe at the idea of having to do massive deployments of completely new equipment.

How many of us have seen older, un-sexy pieces of gear get perpetually propped up by companies just because they've got way too much money/time invested in the present solution than they could justify scrapping it all? Heck, even if it's a bit predatory, RIM would have been smart to realize this edge, and if they had to build in a couple of proprietary hooks that they could have convinced a few CEO's that they "can't live without" they'd have had a client base for life.

Analysts saying the obvious? (1)

bogaboga (793279) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730361)

"RIM has a chance to carve out its own market with tomorrow's launch of BlackBerry 10 given that they get a few things right. They need to heavily promote their devices to CEOs, heavily promote the top apps to users, and most of all, they need to be able to explain why people should give it a look."

The analyst's statement sounds obvious to me. Seriously, does one need an analyst to come up with such an appraisal?

I guess I could be one, right?

Re:Analysts saying the obvious? (2)

vakuona (788200) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730495)

The statement is obvious and wrong and typical CEO-think. Heck, it is what Ballmer thought he needed to do to go past the iPhone. Don't believe me, lookup the infamous video on Youtube where Ballmer declares the iPhone DOA because "it doesn't appeal to business customers because it doesn't have a keyboard". What has been lost in that is that business users no longer drive smartphone adoption. Heck, many companies now let ordinary users pick the devices they want.

Blackberry needs to take 1 or 2 billion dollars and pay people to develop or port apps to their platform, and give them away exclusively on the BB. That is the only way they can get a large library quickly enough to encourage normal users to buy their phones. Smartphones are all about software now, and not just the OS, but the ecosystem. iOS has it, Android has it, WP has it and BB10 doesn't.

Re:Analysts saying the obvious? (1)

John Bayko (632961) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731193)

I assume when you say "Blackberry needs to..." you mean RIM, and this is just a slip-up, not an indication that you're ignorant of what you're talking about.

But what you're saying is correct, and that is what RIM is doing - any app that has a minimum of sales (fairly low, $1000) will be awarded an immediate guarantee of $10,000 (see this [engadget.com] ). I assume the fact that you didn't know that is, again, not an indication that you don't know much about the subject you're talking about.

Re:Analysts saying the obvious? (2, Insightful)

narcc (412956) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731213)

Blackberry needs to take 1 or 2 billion dollars and pay people to develop or port apps to their platform

Why? Developers have been flocking to the platform. BB10 will have >70,000 apps at launch. RIM's new developer tools are great and have been very well received. Their developer outreach program has also been a phenomenal success.

Why on earth would they spend a billion or two to pay developers to do what they're already doing?

Re:Analysts saying the obvious? (1)

PerfectionLost (1004287) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731449)

They already did this:

https://developer.blackberry.com/builtforblackberry/documentation/10kcommitment.html [blackberry.com]

They even sent me a free tablet on the hopes I'd build an app for them.

http://www.madewithmarmalade.com/press/rim-and-marmalade-offer-developers-free-sdk-licences-and-blackberry-playbook-tablet [madewithmarmalade.com]

It was a pretty sweet deal I have to admit.

Uphill battle ahead for RIM (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730379)

^ There, I summerized the obvious in one phrase.

Oops, guess I should have written a two page listicle so I could call myself a "mobile analyst" and get paid for stating the really fucking obvious.

No hard keyboard! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730443)

They should have at least thought of an option of a "clip on" keyboard to simulate the previous models. The ability to touch and feel the buttons provides a much faster and easier way to type.

I don't see an reason to get one. An optional clip-on keyboard would have made me consider it as an option to replace my Galaxy S2.

Re:No hard keyboard! (2)

Unknown1337 (2697703) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730625)

The first model of the BB10 labelled 'N' is a full touch. Expect the model 'L' which will run OS 10 to resemble something closer to a BB Bold with your ever desired physical keys.

Re:No hard keyboard! (4, Informative)

compro01 (777531) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730691)

Wrong way around. The Z10 L-series is the touch-only unit. The X10 N-series is the keyboard+touch.

Re:No hard keyboard! (1)

Unknown1337 (2697703) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730769)

Woops, typing to quickly. Thanks for the correction.

Re:No hard keyboard! (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730999)

Wow, those model numbers are so intuitive. I can't see what could go wrong.

Re:No hard keyboard! (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731047)

They could call it BB10 RT. That won't confuse anyone.

Re:No hard keyboard! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731219)

yes but then they would have to nix the BB trackpad for tiles

Re:No hard keyboard! (0)

sunderland56 (621843) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731077)

Wow, those model numbers are so intuitive. I can't see what could go wrong.

How about the upcoming confusion between "OS 10" and "OS X" ?

Re:No hard keyboard! (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731393)

Yeah.
Samsung sucks at it too.
I mean who would buy a Samsung SGH-i747?

Re:No hard keyboard! (1)

compro01 (777531) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731853)

If RIM released devices with intuitive model numbers, their customer base would get spooked and run away.

Re:No hard keyboard! (1)

compro01 (777531) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730673)

There's also a version with a physical keyboard called the X10 N-series.

Patience (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730453)

In just few hours we will get the full announce, and then decide if they need to improve or not. The user interface looks pretty nice (a step forward the one in the N9), if they add to that android app compatibility and ability to run apps from other QT based mobile OSs (no matter so much now, but probably will do in 6-12 months) and dont get crazy with prices (i.e. not 3+ x times the Nexus 4), they should be ok.

Re:Patience (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730477)

If it still requires BES it will be stillborn.

Re:Patience (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731083)

It doesn't. BB10 can hook up with ActiveSync just the same way iOS & Android can.

Re:Patience (1)

zlives (2009072) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731253)

doesn't require "BES" but does provide some additional security options for enterprise with BES 10 Services

Re:Patience (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731281)

No one cares anymore.

BES sucks too much for the small gain. If you doubt it ask anyone who ever had to admin a BES server.

If their product was not so terrible they would never have ended up in this position.

Re:Patience (1)

zlives (2009072) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731451)

"admin a BES server" ... umm that would be me :) , and personally I never really had much issues with it.
if by their product, you mean the phone devices, i would agree. I did like the fact that BB phones always assumed i wanted to use the phone as a phone first.
the BB10 services is kind of like MAAS360 and other Activesync device mgmt software so personally once the devices are out we will test them out and compare with their competition.

Re:Patience (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731573)

You never had to restart it to get a device working again? No pushing of service books and in general it being a pain in the ass?

Smart devices are not phones first. I use mine for computer like tasks hundreds of times more than for phone calls. Honestly if I had to lose one feature the phone would be the first one my list to go.

Re:Patience (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730927)

I want to know if they've solved the basic problems of email integration with their existing stack.
Best I can tell is that their messaging stack is (or was) fundamentally incompatible with their new QNX based OS, and that is why you didnt have email on the playbook from the getgo.

I think they fired the wrong developer, or lost some source somewhere along the way. Who wants to bet their messaging stack is a binary blob running in a VM?

Should be interesting ... (3, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730471)

I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

I suspect a lot of people have mostly decided RIM is a dead horse and moved on. You could offer me a BlackBerry for free, and I'm not sure I'd care. And the dirty looks I still get from the wife when her Playbook is crashing tells me she's not someone who would recommend any of their products.

If what they release is business-centric with a focus on connecting to an Exchange server, then I predict that the consumers who buy most smart phones nowadays will decide they're not offering anything of value.

It's become like the Amiga or SGI ... a couple of the die hard fans still saying how awesome it is and how we're all missing out, and a huge amount of people not interested.

Re:Should be interesting ... (1)

Unknown1337 (2697703) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730683)

There's no denying RIM's made some mistakes and targeted the wrong audience with there recent devices, but from everything I've seen the BB10 is a real turnaround to what they do right and what people want. Business oriented, with speed and just a touch of flashiness to go with it. If people can get it out of their head that RIM is dead (which they're not: no debt and rising stock prices, over hiring resulting in mass layoffs, etc., but that's a discussion for another time) they might just find the new BB10 isn't half bad.

Re:Should be interesting ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730789)

See this sounds exactly like the type of person described in the last sentence of the GP post.

Re:Should be interesting ... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730847)

But even you are saying that it's business oriented, and we've established over the last few years that the consumer market is much more significant.

But if the majority of people buying phones aren't looking for business oriented, they'll go elsewhere. People want Angry Birds and Facebook, not Exchange and Outlook.

I'm not sure a phone targeted to business users is going to give them anywhere near the chances of getting people to be interested.

It really is like those "I'm a PC/I'm a Mac" commercials where the PC is talking about spreadsheets and powerpoint slides; if you;'re selling functionality most people don't need, then you're pretty limited in who wants it. Native ability to view an Excel spreadsheet is going to appeal to a fairly small percentage of the market.

Re:Should be interesting ... (2)

muon-catalyzed (2483394) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731109)

Never too late for a secure phone. Doubt Android will ever be a truly private experience because that is where they make the money. I would rather buy an American phone like BB or Apple then some cheap phone made in China loaded with OS that wants to "monetize" me and recoup subsidy costs some other way..

Re:Should be interesting ... (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731447)

It is incredibly easy to never sync with a gmail account, and not use the Play store.
You do not need to load Maps, or Youtube on it.
You can Root and side load whatever apps you like.
There are also very secure ROMs you can run.

Re:Should be interesting ... (0)

Some Bitch (645438) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731227)

People wrote off the Playbook in 2011 but it outsold the latest generation of iPad in the UK for the last few months of 2012. I'm not convinced RIM is down and out just yet.

Re:Should be interesting ... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731391)

People wrote off the Playbook in 2011 but it outsold the latest generation of iPad in the UK for the last few months of 2012.

I wonder if that's related to the fire-sale pricing -- for a while you could buy a playbook for something like $99. It was crashy and didn't have a lot of software, but it was cheap. That's why I bought one for the wife.

I'm not convinced RIM is down and out just yet.

I'm not suggesting they are, I'm saying that for a lot of consumers, they might as well be; and if they can't convince people to give them a second look, they may well be.

It may be an absolutely awesome platform, but if they focus on the ability to connect to your corporate Exchange server instead of what most non-business users are doing with it -- well, then they will only get the business users.

We've already established that most of the growth in smart phones in the last few years has been with consumers, not business. If they have all of the features a consumer wants, they should be marketing the hell out of that.

The coming QML Revolution (-1, Offtopic)

scorp1us (235526) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730481)

Currently, Flash is the only cross-platform app building method. But BB10 uses Qt5 and QML. The Ubuntu Phone supports it as well. Development on Android is ongoing and and iOS on on the horizon. WindowsRT can be done as well. This isn't yet a huge deal for consumers and it never will be. But for developers, a QML app will open them up to maintaining one platform for all the phone platforms. Which means the platforms become mostly irrelevant to consumers since the exact same app will be on all. You might like the particular way that you have notifications, or widgets on your home screen, but that will be the deciding factor, unless there are artificial limitations (Apple). The hardware is all equivalent now. The apps will be equivalent. Only the OS and policies will shape the buying choice. I for one will not buy an Apple product until they allow the Swype keyboard. So I think it's now about what it's NOT got...

Re:The coming QML Revolution (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730901)

Not just QT/QML, a more complete API sharing is what they should embrace, something like are trying to normalize Plasma Active, Sailfish and Ubuntu Mobile [slashdot.org] . You could have all the apps in all platforms, and choosing the right one based on your needs (they seem to have different targets), not a particular app you want.

Re:The coming QML Revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731119)

So QT/QML, C++ native, Adobe Air, HTML5, Sencha, and Marmalade aren't enough?

They're taking the right approach (2)

crazyjj (2598719) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730483)

Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach. But they're still going to have to prove themselves on both fronts. And the clock is definitely ticking.

I don't think it's too late for them, but it's definitely the 11th hour.

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

PNutts (199112) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730729)

Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach. But they're still going to have to prove themselves on both fronts. And the clock is definitely ticking.

I don't think it's too late for them, but it's definitely the 11th hour.

iOS and Android already have this so what's going to make it stand out?

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

crazyjj (2598719) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731001)

They still have some clout in enterprise circles, where they're coasting on their name and one-time legendary rep, basically.

Not saying that's going to be enough. Just saying that if there is a CHANCE, this is the best hope they've got.

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

ctr2sprt (574731) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731241)

I'd love to see an email app that complies with IT demands for a PIN lock, encryption, and remote wipe capabilities without turning those features on for the entire phone. I don't want to enter a goddamn PIN code just so I can play Zookeeper Battle. I don't need to encrypt the pictures of my wife and kid I have on my phone. And I don't think IT really cares if my Plants vs. Zombies achievements get stolen by a hacker.

I mean, I still wouldn't buy a Blackberry device. But that strikes me as an actual business-related value-add they could offer. All the other stuff people are talking about here -- "connect to an Exchange server" and "view Excel spreadsheets" seem to be the most common -- can already be done by every other phone in existence. Those aren't awesome things your BB does. Those are basic, entry-level features that any modern smartphone must have.

No sandboxes for work/home in iOS or Android (1)

dstyle5 (702493) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731331)

From what I've heard BB10 has discrete sand-boxing functionality for work and home email, contacts, phone books, etc built into the OS. My Nexus 4 certainly doesn't have that, not sure about the iOS world. The closest thing I've seen on another phone is "kids mode" on Windows 8 phones, which is a great idea IMO. Companies are requiring more and more security measures in place phones, PCs, etc so I think this feature will at least get some notice by the Fortune 500.

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

ArhcAngel (247594) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731601)

Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach. But they're still going to have to prove themselves on both fronts. And the clock is definitely ticking.

I don't think it's too late for them, but it's definitely the 11th hour.

iOS and Android already have this so what's going to make it stand out?

No...they don't. They really don't. Neither OS was designed with enterprise deployment in mind. The new BYOD model is exactly like herding cats. A quick glance at this chart [wikipedia.org] shows just how much is left untouched.

IBM's Endpoint Manager [ibm.com] which wants to be the BES for Apple devices is a royal PITA to use and certainly not as seamless as a BB BES solution. I am praying we ditch it for BES 10 now that it is out and allows BB, Android or iOS devices to be managed. I have been saying it since the first iOS devices started showing up...All it will take to get the entire company back on BlackBerry is for sensitive data to get leaked by one of these devices and it cost us money. Everyone will be mad because they have to give up their precious while the PR and Security teams do damage control.

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730921)

Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach.

It was the right approach 3 years ago when everybody else did it, too: iOS, Android and Windows Phone 7 & 8 have that already.

They need to move beyond "enterprise", because what was previously their selling point is now just another bulletpoint feature all smartphones have.

Re:They're taking the right approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731027)

Nobody else has the ability to separate your personal use from your business use on one device as the BB10 will.

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

narcc (412956) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731473)

Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach.

It was the right approach 3 years ago when everybody else did it, too: iOS, Android and Windows Phone 7 & 8 have that already.

Yeah, because "security" is synonymous with iOS, Android, and WP. What color is the sky in your world?

RIM still offers the only enterprise-ready smartphone and still offers the best and most comprehensive MDM solution. iOS and Android aren't even close *today* let alone three years ago!

This is to say nothing about features like Balance that truly separate business and personal use in an unobtrusive way that, quite frankly, other platforms simply can't manage.

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731501)

How's the weather up there in Waterloo?

Re:They're taking the right approach (1)

narcc (412956) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731705)

Did I say something inaccurate?

As far as I can tell, that's just the way things are. Stating the facts shouldn't mark me as a shill!

It's not pinin,' it's passed on! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730485)

This smart phone is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late smart phone! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to your business unit would be pushing up the daisies! Its market processes are of interest only to historians! It's hopped the twig! It's shuffled off this mortal coil! It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This.... is an EX-SMARTPHONE!

Re:It's not pinin,' it's passed on! (1)

Unknown1337 (2697703) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730709)

Repeating the same thing in different terms does not amount to a meaningful opinion. Generally a reason or fact follows such statements as a sign of supporting evidence.

Re:It's not pinin,' it's passed on! (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730771)

Okay, that's unforgivable - turn in your geek card, pronto.

Re:It's not pinin,' it's passed on! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731053)

no, i'm totally with unknown1337. referencing so-called nerdy shit just because it's "nerdy" is *not* funny. it's lame. practically all "nerd" humor is lame, particularly the endlessly memetic slashdot brand. should try actually being clever or smart for once.

Dead Parrot sketch vs. Bring Out Your Dead scene (1)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731787)

Invisible hand of the market: Bring out yer dead! Bring out yer dead!
Consumers: Here's one!
IHOTM: Ninepence.
RIM: I'm not dead!
IHOTM: What?
Consumers: Nothing, here's your ninepence
RIM: I'm not dead!
IHOTM: Here, he says he's not dead.
Consumers: Yes he is.
RIM: I'm not!
IHOTM: He's not.
Consumers: Well, he will be soon, his products are rubbish
RIM: They're getting better!
Consumers: No they aren't, and your market share is crap. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
IHOTM: Well I can't take him like that. It's against regulations*.
RIM: I don't want to go to bankruptcy court.
Consumers: Oh, don't be such a baby.
IHOTM: I can't take him. Nobody wants to buy his trademarks, not even Samsung.
RIM: I feel fine!
Consumers: Oh, do us a favor.
IHOTM: I can't!
Consumers: Well, can you wait around a couple of quarters? He won't be long.
IHOTM: No, I promised I'd be at Microsoft's, they've lost nine today.
Consumers: Well, when's your next round?
IHOTM: Q2
RIM: I think I'll pursue business customers instead of direct consumers
Consumers: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you can do?
RIM: I feel happy. I feel happy!
*thump*
Consumers: Ah, thank you very much
IHOTM: Not at all. See you on Thursday.

* As an added joke, enjoy the irony of the physical avatar of capitalism caring about regulations

Symbian had no chance at rebirth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730507)

Palm and Blackberry are dying from natural causes, but Symbian was basically murdered by a Microsoft hitman. It was declining in market share and may have died on it's own, but the flexibility of it might have kept it going for a long time. It's multitasking was light years ahead of what's available now. I still like it better than Android or IOS.

Re:Symbian had no chance at rebirth (1)

YodasEvilTwin (2014446) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730875)

Just curious, what did Symbian have over BB in terms of multitasking?

It has a chance (4, Interesting)

blind biker (1066130) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730521)

I've seen it in action, and it reminded me of Android, but in many aspects it's better. Porting Android apps to BB10 is, apparently, pretty straightforward (sometimes downright effortless) and there will be 70.000 ready at launch.

So it has a fighting chance. Let's see how it plays out. Personally, I think it has slightly better odds than Windows Phone.

Re:It has a chance (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730785)

I think it has farm better odds than the Windows phone. Firstly, India is heavily entrenched in the blackberry, which makes the transition to BB10, for them, a cash cow. Secondly, RIM is competing with an iPhone clone. Given how successful the Android platform has been in this regard, I think the Z10 will succeed. Third, the developer tools are far better than what was there before and seeing what has been submitted to the app store, it will only become richer.

TL;DR: RIM has a very good chance to be a solid #3 player with Android and iPhone.

I agree, they have good focus (4, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731275)

I was at a developer conference and went to a BB10 presentation.

The thing that impressed me is the focus on being really good at what Blackberry always did well, just revamped for a modern age.

For instance they had a really nice way to "peek" at what was going on. And email was always just a motion away, it was still core to the system just as it has been in older blackberry devices.

Also Blackberry realized that lots of people love blackberries because of the typing. Blackberry 10 has the best virtual keyboard I have seen for typing and completion.

BB10 is also really agnostic as to how you develop software for it, as noted Android ports are simple and they have other paths as well.

Before I saw it in action I thought they were toast. Now, like you, I think it has a real chance. Like you, I like the odds for its success even more than WP8 now.

Just CEOs? (1)

kaizendojo (956951) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730541)

They need to pitch it to CIOs as they will be the ones placing the orders.

Potentially awesome devices for BYOD.. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730543)

One of the big features is having multiple profiles on the BB10 phones, so you can have a Home profile as well as a Business profile, each with it's own apps and data that you can switch on the fly. When you leave a company, the business profile is wiped and you can continue using the device.

Demoed one of the employee's units some time ago, it was pretty cool. Definitely geared for business users, but it's the only modern smartphone I've seen with this functionality.

Microsoft? (1, Insightful)

mvar (1386987) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730547)

no other first-generation smartphone leader has been able to pull off this kind of rebirth. Palm and Symbian are dead and Microsoft is struggling

So the crap-failure that was Windows CE managed to make Microsoft a "smartphone leader" and on top of that they are now struggling for a rebirth?!?

What they need to do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730563)

They need to build a machine that has longer battery life than all other smartphones on the market.

Re:What they need to do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730821)

They need to build a machine that has longer battery life than all other smartphones on the market.

Easy, eliminate GPS, bluetooth, wifi and Bob's you'r uncle

The phones and OS will need to be amazing (1)

JoeyRox (2711699) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730567)

They'll get some early and easy sales momentum from their installed base, which hasn't seen a new model in 18 months and hasn't seen innovation from RIMM in forever. Sustaining that momentum will require an incredible OS and lots of word of mouth. The timing is actually pretty good for them - iOS has lost its momentum, Android is doing well but also kind of staid, so people are looking for something new.

Wrong approach (2, Insightful)

grasshoppa (657393) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730587)

I maintain that they should be focusing on mobile security and management software, and should have been for the past several years.

Even as recently as last year, RIM had a reputation for security mobile data devices. The problem was, nobody wanted those devices. So instead of spending the fortune on building a new handset/OS, they should have spent time and money developing a decent mobile management server, with associated mobile clients for android, iphone and MS kit ( with plugins for the various data sources; exchange, groupwise, ect... ).

They could have parleyed their reputation on to the entire mobile market for business handhelds, instead of floating a NEW hand held in an already contentious market.

Re:Wrong approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730717)

I agree. If Microsoft implements full outlook functionality including encryption into Windows Phone they could take the remaining enterprise business away from RIM. Too bad they haven't done that yet.

Re:Wrong approach (1)

YodasEvilTwin (2014446) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730953)

That doesn't make sense to me. You can't secure an OS with a client. Is everything supposed to be sandboxed & contained within the client? There will still be host security concerns and apart from that the experience would suffer heavily. And people would pay for that?

Re:Wrong approach (1)

grasshoppa (657393) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730971)

With the clout RIM has? They could have worked with the vendors to get their kit built in as part of the OS, sandboxed and all.

Look at it like this: It would have created a "business" class of devices, that came "Ready for the Enterprise" because of the extended functionality.

Android and iphone don't really have anything in this arena, even now, so I would expect that this would have gone over very well.

Re:Wrong approach (3, Informative)

EvilDroid (705289) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731257)

Wow, you really did your homework! Except they actually did exactly what you claim they should have done. (well, except for the MS part)

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/77152.html [technewsworld.com]

Re:Wrong approach (1)

grasshoppa (657393) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731287)

Great, now if only they can do this about 3 years ago it'd be perfect.

Re:Wrong approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731497)

Why is the above post not 5 starred? This was my exact thought also!

People like grasshoppa need to stop makign assumptions (based on their own ignorance) and stating them as fact. grasshoppa is 100% off basis and gets a score of 4? Please correct to 1 or atleast 5 star EvilDroid.

Come on slashdot!

Re:Wrong approach (1)

Some Bitch (645438) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731311)

So instead of spending the fortune on building a new handset/OS, they should have spent time and money developing a decent mobile management server, with associated mobile clients for android, iphone and MS kit ( with plugins for the various data sources; exchange, groupwise, ect... ).

They could have parleyed their reputation on to the entire mobile market for business handhelds, instead of floating a NEW hand held in an already contentious market.

They did [blackberry.com] .

Re:Wrong approach (1)

narcc (412956) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731605)

I maintain that they should be focusing on mobile security and management software, and should have been for the past several years.

It's a good think that they've been doing just that. As always they offer the best and most comprehensive MDM solution on the market and (obviously) they're still light-years ahead of the competition when it comes to mobile security.

They could have parleyed their reputation on to the entire mobile market for business handhelds, instead of floating a NEW hand held in an already contentious market.

Yeah, it's a shame they didn't introduce innovative (and unrivaled) features like Balance or expand their MDM tools to cover other platforms in addition to BBOS and BB10. (Oh, wait, they did!)

Reality distortion field (0)

mschaffer (97223) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730643)

Since nobody at RIM has access to the reality distortion field generating device, they are going to get smacked down hard.
Besides, their device is, at best, an also-ran device. Had they come out with the Z10 a year or two earlier it would be a bit of a different story.

Steve Jobs Moment (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730669)

In response to providing a 'Steve Jobs Moment' the CEO of RIM spent 3 hours yelling at employees then removed his license plate and parked in a handicap parking spot.

They don't seem willing to commit. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730685)

I think that there's a market for a business phone, but they aren't capitalizing on it.

If I were making the new BlackBerry, I'd brand it as a premium phone. Give it a big battery - 3500mAh - so that it gets days of battery life. Tethering everywhere, so that you are always connected, including built in secure VPN tunneling. Two sims, so it's a real world phone. Sync with the cloud. Fingerprint security. This is a phone for Getting Things Done.

Then your ads - not directly, mind you - can infer that the other phones are cute if you want to play Angry Birds, but that they're toys. Sure, we can do that, but that's not what we're about. These are phones to get work done on.

Then get onto a disciplined Apple-esque release schedule. New BlackBerry, every year, at least. Not every 3 years or whatever they're at now. Two product lines - the Bold, and the Torch. One version of each, save perhaps for different memory configurations.

Will they do this? Probably not. They'll try to be all things to all people and slowly fade away, but hey, who knows.

Re:They don't seem willing to commit. (1)

vlm (69642) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731231)

No cameras so some workplaces actually allow it.

In fact no external plugs USB or removable memory or whatever. Inductive charging, wifi, bt, and nfc thats it.

Built in rdesktop / vnc / whatever support.

Blasphemy.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42730711)

No mention of Nokia?

Re:Blasphemy.. (1)

sunderland56 (621843) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731137)

No mention of Nokia?

TFS said "Microsoft is struggling".

Re:Blasphemy.. (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731223)

Rip Van Winkle - is that you?

Apps are all that count. (2)

Jahf (21968) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730759)

If it doesn't come with a fully functional Facebook, Twitter, Evernote, Angry Birds etc then it is virtually dead. Not barely working apps but fully working apps that are equal to their iOS / Android counterparts. BB already has great email support but they will need to have good Google Calendar sync, etc as well.

If the apps work ... and the right apps are there ... then it won't be as hard as most people think. Outside the geek/techno realm people care few shits about the OS. It is all about the app ecosystem. It has to have the big apps on release and it has to see new apps come out at the same time as on the other platforms.

And ... from what I've read ... there is actually a decent chance of this happening.

One of the things people don't realize is that while BB has a smaller share ... people on that platform tend to be willing to pay for apps more often (and more per app) so as long as BB can get this out the door properly (big if, no doubt) the developers may well join. Especially if their app support team is as good as I've been reading and porting is as simple as they've made it sound.

Will -I- buy one? No. I want an open platform for my own purposes. But my exec bosses? They couldn't care less about rooting/jailbreaking/shell sessions/etc. And most of them don't care about fringe apps, they just want their core apps to work excellently and their phone to be secure.

Re:Apps are all that count. (1)

vlm (69642) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731255)

they just want their core apps to work excellently and their phone to be secure.

They have no way to evaluate the latter, and for the former they'd buy an iphone.

Re:Apps are all that count. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731583)

BB10 has Facebook fully integrated into their hub. That's the place where e-mail and everythign else cosnider social or siacial app resides.

Twitters should be there also.

Angry Birds has long been known to be coming to BB10.

To take things a step further. Pandora is not coming which stinks. BUT! I read that someone sideloaded it (from Android) onto their BB10 development phone (known as Dev Alphas) and it worked flawlessly. Which brings up a point. Almost any app that Android does, BB10 can do via sideloading.

I'm pretty sure some surpises are in store for Wednesday. Only about 40% off the BB10 has been shown off according to those with Dev Alphas. And there are probably going to be some surprises regarding apps.

People tend to forget that BB10 is going to start showiung up in their cars info/entertainment systems in serious fasion. Google Bentley RIMM and watch videos if you don't believe me.

Sorry, but it's over (2)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#42730853)

The idea of pitching from the top down was always the Microsoft approach - and it no longer works. iOS and Android have succeeded despite not having any official sanction - it was exactly the opposite approach. The rank and file bought these devices themselves, and pretty much refused to cow-tow to the company line because their personal devices already did what they needed, even in the workplace.

Blackberry's time has come and gone. The end game has already been played. They should just part out the remaining assets and give the money back to the shareholders.

oh, One. More. Thing. (1)

swschrad (312009) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731085)

our wrist Blackberry now comes with a full-sized 101-key keyboard with trackpad. Nobody else can make that claim.

Just in time for the holidays!! (1)

BenSchuarmer (922752) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731197)

everybody gets lots of gifts on Ground Hog's Day and Presidents' Day, right?

It can pickup as fast as it went down (1)

Ravaldy (2621787) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731225)

The mobile market is not cimented because nobody owns anything that makes or breaks the industry. For that reason BB has a solid chance of regaining a part of the market share. On the other hand, believing they will own as much of the market as they did before is just silly. Wether in the past they failed to follow the market or not, they would have still lost a chunk of the market just due to the availability of alternatives. The more viable options the market offers the more the market is diluted.

The pitch for RIM (4, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731263)

"Many of you have an Apple iPhone. Some of you have Google Android phones. Some of you use Microsoft's Skype service.

Apple can monitor the location of your iPhone from their control center. They can turn your phone off. They can put software on it. Apple has the keys to your iPhone.

With Google Android devices, Google has the keys to your phone. Google can change what's on your phone. With Skype, all your calls go through Microsoft, and Microsoft won't say who's listening in.

With RIM, you are in control. The server that controls your devices is in your data center, under your control. We at RIM have no control over your devices. You have the keys, and you set the keys. We have no way to get into your phone. We can't listen in, nor can we let a government listen in.

Do you want to give out the keys to your company? It's your choice.

Thank you."

Re:The pitch for RIM (3, Interesting)

MrEdofCourse (2670081) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731479)

" Apple can monitor the location of your iPhone from their control center. They can turn your phone off. They can put software on it. Apple has the keys to your iPhone. "

That's not entirely true. You can deploy iPhones for your enterprise:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/it-center/ [apple.com]

I don't know enough about Android, but I thought the same type of thing was possible, that is, it's possible to have an Android phone that has no connection to Google or Google services whatsoever. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

"Some of you use Microsoft's Skype service. "

So don't use Skype if you don't trust it. You don't have to use Skype with WP8, Android or iPhones, it's just an option. Will Skype be an option with BB10?

Re:The pitch for RIM (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42731545)

"We can't listen in, nor can we let a government listen in."

Uh huh. Unless you're in India.

Re:The pitch for RIM (1)

omfglearntoplay (1163771) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731879)

I despise companies looking at all of my information. It's nice to know that RIM is apparently not so evil. Maybe it's because their Canadian. ;)

ActiveSync Works just like iPhones (1)

omfglearntoplay (1163771) | about a year and a half ago | (#42731933)

Pretty neat that you can now use BB10 devices with ActiveSync if you don't have a new BB 10 server. Or if you don't need tight security and want to save a few bucks. I might run mine this way.

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