Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Now the Top PC Vendor, For Some Values of PC

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the is-it-personal-does-it-compute dept.

Apple 577

tsamsoniw writes "While research companies including IDC and Gartner deemed HP the PC leader for Q4 2012, Canalys has a different perspective. The analyst firm has declared Apple the top PC vendor for the past quarter, thanks in part to the booming success of the iPad and the iPad mini. By Canalys's reckoning, Amazon, too, now beats out the likes of Acer and Asus as leading PC vendors, having shipped 4.6 million Kindles in Q4."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

So tablets at PCs now? (5, Informative)

erotic_pie (796522) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821413)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"? If that's the case we might as well start considering smart phones PCs, since a modern tablet is basically just a scaled up smart phone.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (-1)

CheShACat (999169) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821451)

Hell yes, tablets are PCs, they've always been PCs and always will be PCs. The only thing that's making you think otherwise is the vendor lock-in to their closed ecosystems.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821675)

Then we should treat game consoles, both home and portable, as PCs too. So that makes, for example, Nintendo rather significant PC vendor.~

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (-1, Flamebait)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821905)

LOL. The Wii has sold less than 100M units. All time. The iPad is doing more than that, per year.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821953)

What about NES, SNES, various Gameboys, N64, GameCube, DS?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821763)

Are smart phones PCs too?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (5, Insightful)

cellocgw (617879) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821869)

damn straight smartphones are PCs. They just happen to be small-format computers with a cellular link chipset added in.

Now, just to make both you and me look like the idiots we are, can anyone come up with an accepted, standardized definition of what constitutes a "personal computer" ? I know I can't.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (2)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821967)

A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator. This contrasted with the batch processing or time-sharing models which allowed larger, more expensive minicomputer and mainframe systems to be used by many people, usually at the same time. Large data processing systems require a full-time staff to operate efficiently.

Source:Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]

By no means authoritative, but it seems like a reasonable definition to me. If you go by that, game consoles are definitely not personal computers. I could go either way on phones (and tablets which really are the exact same thing as a phone with a slightly bigger screen).

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821857)

An open architecture has always been the defining characteristic of "personal computers", so that is not an irrelevant distinction.

Slashdot thinks iPads are crippled PCs. Customers think iPads are superior to PCs for many use cases, precisely because they are not PCs. Many people hate "PC problems", and that drives them into the tablet market.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

macs4all (973270) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821941)

An open architecture has always been the defining characteristic of "personal computers", so that is not an irrelevant distinction.

Now define "Open Architecture"

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821861)

Lack of keyboard.
Lack of mouse.
Lack of peripheral support.
No user-upgradable components.

Traditional tablets are not PCs.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1, Insightful)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821471)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"?

No, of course not. I draw the line at having an actual keyboard (which makes my daughter's HTC Desire Z phone more of a PC than a typical tablet is). TFA is just self-serving bullshit. And shame on TFS for publicizing the rubbish.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821551)

What a ridiculous thing to say. Defining by input device? Specifically, one which can optionally be added to any tablet? One which comes as part of a full laptop form factor in tablets like the Asus Eeepad? Idiot.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821575)

No, of course not. I draw the line at having an actual keyboard

Well, that's both arbitrary and wrong. The older mainframes that used paper tape and punch cards didn't have keyboards.

You don't get to define what makes a computer, and by any meaningful definition, a tablet is undeniably a computer.

ENIAC didn't have a keyboard, that doesn't mean it wasn't a computer.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (3, Insightful)

Joehonkie (665142) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821607)

PC = "personal" computer. A mainframe or a mini is not a PC. ENIAC totally isn't.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (4, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821749)

No, but you can't claim that a smart phone or tablet isn't a computer on that basis ... ENIAC wasn't personal, but by the GPs definition it didn't have a keyboard, so it wasn't a computer either. Which is blatantly false.

By the definition I learned when I got my degree in CS, if it is capable of solving Turing complete problems, it is a computer -- and why we should be having this argument on Slashdot of all places is mind boggling.

If I used a bluetooth keyboard with an iPad, do you think that keyboard magically turns it from "not a computer" to "is a computer"?? But a virtual keyboard keeps it from being one??

The architecture itself would be capable of running any programming language ported to it -- that is what makes it a computer. It has a general purpose CPU with an instruction set, and the ability to write new logic on it that isn't defined statically in hardware, ergo, computer.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

Wookact (2804191) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821727)

You are right, the ENIAC was a super computer. It was not a PC though (PERSONAL COMPUTER).

Tablets, while computers, fall into a category of their own. Different architecture, different form factor, different OS, different input method seems like good reasons for classifying it as different from a traditional PC.

Just as a PC is different from a super computer due to things liek a different archetecture, different form factor, different OS, and different input methods.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821877)

You are right, the ENIAC was a super computer. It was not a PC though (PERSONAL COMPUTER).

Gee, no kidding ... but people are saying lack of a keyboard makes it not a computer. That's not true.

So if it's a general purpose computing device (which it is), other than semantics by people who seemingly don't know anything about computers ... what specific trait about a tablet makes it not a computer? Being handheld? Being small?

Different architecture, different form factor, different OS, different input method seems like good reasons for classifying it as different from a traditional PC.

But it isn't. Look at Microsoft Surface Pro or whatever it's called.

It's running the Windows desktop OS, has the same CPU architecture (it's Intel). It's the same architecture as a PC (give or take a few details) wrapped in a box with a built in screen. But it's essentially a desktop machine that's running a desktop OS which has been re-packaged.

So would that machine be a "computer" whereas an Android one wouldn't be? Based on what specific criteria?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821747)

No, of course not. I draw the line at having an actual keyboard

Well, that's both arbitrary and wrong. The older mainframes that used paper tape and punch cards didn't have keyboards.

You don't get to define what makes a computer, and by any meaningful definition, a tablet is undeniably a computer.

ENIAC didn't have a keyboard, that doesn't mean it wasn't a computer.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

um they didn't say computer they said pc or personal computer based off of the original ibm pc which have always had keyboards.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821753)

ENIAC was not a PC.
As you said, it was a mainframe.

Arguably, tablets, smartphones, laptops, watches, dumb phones and anything that has some processing capability, while being bound to a single user in normal usage, is a PC.
If it's personal, and it computes.....

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

msauve (701917) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821927)

If a tabled is a computer, so it my microwave oven. They both have processors, and my oven even has a keyboard (and it's user programmable).

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

ElmoGonzo (627753) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821685)

I agree. If tablets are PC's then so are smartphones. Including iPhones would increase Apple's count but would drag in a bunch of other vendors.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

topgun966 (1377185) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821903)

Naw, that would be Samsung. They shipped WAY more phones than Apple. Hell, the GS3 alone beat the iPhone. Soooo no.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

cyfer2000 (548592) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821829)

my linux boxes are crying... They ain't got no keyboard...

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

node 3 (115640) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821865)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"?

No, of course not. I draw the line at having an actual keyboard (which makes my daughter's HTC Desire Z phone more of a PC than a typical tablet is). TFA is just self-serving bullshit. And shame on TFS for publicizing the rubbish.

"Self-serving bullshit" is when you engage in childish, "I'll make up some silly rule and pretend like it's valid, though only because it helps me in some way".

All tablets that I'm aware of have actual keyboards. They are on the screen, and they are, optionally, wired or wireless external keyboards, compatible with full-fledged desktop keyboards. And I'll wager a large number of people reading this (and agreeing with you) have PCs that don't have a keyboard connected to them.

Wait, what was that? Keyboards are optional on PCs as well? But I thought... Didn't you just say... Oh no! How can that be!!!

It can be because all the things people use to preclude the iPad from being a PC are "self-serving bullshit".

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821897)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"?

No, of course not. I draw the line at having an actual keyboard (which makes my daughter's HTC Desire Z phone more of a PC than a typical tablet is). TFA is just self-serving bullshit. And shame on TFS for publicizing the rubbish.

Ooh, ooh, and removable/expandable storage!

Seriously, WTF is up with many tablets not having an SD slot?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (4, Insightful)

whisper_jeff (680366) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821935)

My desktop doesn't have a built in keyboard. It requires an external keyboard to be plugged in or synced to have keyboard functionality.

My iPad has a built in (virtual) keyboard. It does not require an external keyboard to be synced to have keyboard functionality but, if I so choose, I can utilize one to have a physical keyboard.

So, by your keyboard criteria, my desktop is not a computer and my iPad is.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (5, Informative)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821533)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"?

Well, let's see .. it has a CPU, memory, can do input, processing, and output (the Von Neumann definition). It's capable of doing Turing complete things, and writing code written for it.

It's personal, and it meets all of the definitions of computer.

we might as well start considering smart phones PCs, since a modern tablet is basically just a scaled up smart phone.

By any meaningful definition, a modern smart phone is more of a computer than what we had 20 years ago -- by a huge factor.

So, tell us, what aspects of a phone or tablet make it not a computer in your mind? They'll both run rings around an old 486.

We're no longer talking about things which are hardware specific to a task, and you could easily port any programming language to that platform. The absence of a physical keyboard or mouse don't make you not a computer (because they used to have neither).

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (2)

Joehonkie (665142) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821543)

So we should include phones and game consoles as well. Got it.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821655)

So we should include phones and game consoles as well. Got it.

If they're capable of solving Turing complete problems [wikipedia.org] , they absolutely they are. By definition.

An XBox is a PC which has been wrapped in a box and sold in retail stores, but it's an example of a computer for sure. It's essentially an Intel processor and a desktop PC.

And modern phones, which can be arbitrarily programmed and aren't just hard wired to be phones? Guess what, a smart phone is essentially a computer in a little tiny case.

Walk into any CS department anywhere in the world, and argue to a professor that a smart phone or a tablet isn't a computer -- they'll either laugh at you, or educate you.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821891)

Well, to solve complex problems computer must be programmable. And since it's personal, programmable by its owner. Now, how many tablets (especially Apple tablets) are capable of executing programs written on them?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821981)

Then "by definition" almost anything with a microprocessor is a PC. Having a turing complete instruction set isn't exactly a high bar. My friend's arduino-controlled art installation is a turing complete computer. Does that make it a PC?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

macs4all (973270) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821693)

So we should include phones and game consoles as well. Got it.

Why not?

There's a longstanding geek tradition of trying to get Linux to run on everything from toaster-ovens to televisions. And with a (sort-of) Linux already running on a fairly-popular phone-platform (guess which one), and a (sort-of) Unix already running on another, why not?

Then there's all those console-modders...

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

BaronAaron (658646) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821737)

The personal in PC means the device was designed primarily to be used by one user at a time. Phones fit this criteria but there could be an argument that most game consoles do not, since they are designed to be used by at least two players simultaneously (usually 4 now-a-days). Handheled video games would fit though.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (4, Informative)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821797)

The personal in PC means the device was designed primarily to be used by one user at a time.

No, it means the device was intended to be owned by people, which was a change from when computers were big giant things in dedicated rooms nobody ever went near and no individual could ever hope to own.

My 486 Linux box could run more than one user back in 1993 -- was it not a "Personal Computer"? It was mine, it was a computer. Or did it magically become a server instead of a PC?

The number of intended users is not now, and never has been, part of the definition of "personal" in PC.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

Sique (173459) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821959)

The number of intended users is not now, and never has been, part of the definition of "personal" in PC.

Which is blatantly wrong, because the number of intended users has ever been the defining part of "personal" in PC, starting out with the first computer ever labelling itself a "personal computer", the Apple II. IBM's late entry to the game, the IBM PC, was exactly that: a computer as a personal tool for someone, different to all the terminal session based mainframes and minis, IBM was selling.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821679)

It's personal, and it meets all of the definitions of computer.

...yeah, but we're talking PCs, not computers. You know, I could have understood you making this argument if the parent had spelt out PC as "Personal Computer", because then you could have said "Oh, I missed the "personal" bit" or made a confused argument that would have ignored the fact "PC" has a specific meaning, "Personal Computer" has a specific meaning, and that neither mean quite the same thing as "any computer with any personal aspect to it."

As far as TFA goes, Slashdot is trolling us once again. Yay.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821721)

There is a reason they are called a TABLET and not a PC. Just because you want to go with the literary translation of PC, doesn't mean that a tablet is that. You could easy argue that a Mac is a PC, but its not in a consumers eye, a Mac is Mac, PC is a PC and a tablet is a tablet. Starting to do bullshit things like this is idiotic.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (3, Insightful)

jonadab (583620) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821765)

> So, tell us, what aspects of a phone or tablet make
> it not a computer in your mind? They'll both run rings
> around an old 486.

Traditionally, a PC is a _general purpose_ computer. So you could use it for a wide variety of tasks, anything from basic end-user tasks like typing up a research paper right on through to technical stuff like CAD. Indeed, people used 486s for both of those things, back in the day. So why don't you set your camera up on a tripod and make a YouTube video of yourself attempting to perform those tasks on your touchscreen-only phone? I'd like to see that. It would be highly amusing to watch.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (2)

SighKoPath (956085) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821911)

Use a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and install appropriate software. Maybe even hook it up to a larger screen via whatever video output is available. Once that's complete, it's no more difficult than doing it on a traditional PC. Maybe a little slower, but totally possible.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

vux984 (928602) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821799)

Well, let's see .. it has a CPU, memory, can do input, processing, and output (the Von Neumann definition). It's capable of doing Turing complete things, and writing code written for it.

And my OLD cellphone... not my new fancy galaxy s3... I'm tallking my old Motorola StarTAC.

Apparently that was a PC too. It even had some sort of Java and a hideous WAP browser as i recall... still miles better than what you could do with an Apple II though am i right?

So why didn't we see any articles in the 90s about how Motorola was a top 5 PC manufacturer I wonder?

So, tell us, what aspects of a phone or tablet make it not a computer in your mind? They'll both run rings around an old 486.

Because the term "personal computer" means something more than meeting the computer science definition of being capable of computing and being owned / operated by a person.

Why aren't phones or tablets personal computers? Because they are severely restricted in terms of capability relative to a contemporary personal computer.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821825)

By your definition a human being is a computer.

Central Processing Unit (CPU) = Nervous System-It processes the inputs and outputs of your body.

anyone who has done behavior modification work will tell you the human mine can be programmed, or changed.

The rest are self explanatory.

So the top PC Vendor is China.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821553)

They should count, because the majority of people replace PC usage time with Tablet usage time. I know my wife uses her tablet instead of her PC probably 80-90% of the time she previously used a PC.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821883)

By this logic cars should be counted as horses.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821557)

Why not? They're still the same basic computer architecture as traditional PCs, with the primary difference being the interface. And with Microsoft's recent release of the Surface Pro there are now tablets that will run the same software as PCs. You could even make an argument for including phones as we're starting to see things like Ubuntu phone. If phones were running x86 chips we wouldn't even be having this discussion as various Linux ports for several devices would be available for use. In another 10 years, most people will probably just dock their phone with a station that has a larger monitor and a keyboard if they need a more traditional PC experience because they probably won't need a traditional computer.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821879)

There are x86 phones. (Intel has released some phones since last year)

Linux runs just fine on ARM.

The problem is locked down firmware (and drivers, to some extent)
As soon as you get easy access to the firmware, and access to the necessary driver blobs, you could probably run a general purpose Linux on any phone from the last five years.

Archos has in the past been offering unlocked firmwares for some of their devices, and my current devices actually has three different flavors of Linux installed. It's a 5 inch tablet, with HDMI out and an USB host. It runs Linux. It's a true general purpose PC.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821559)

Yeah, and a swimming pool is just a scaled up bath tub.

You retards had that complaint before the ipad was released. You lost. Get over it.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

alen (225700) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821569)

my iphone 5 is more powerful than some of the older servers in our data center

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

micheas (231635) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821591)

I would argue that a smart phone is actually more of a Personal Computer than the workstation on my desk, which I use mostly for work.

I would guess that over 80% of my personal stuff is done on my phone.

My ipad is mostly for reading at night because the kindle does not have "paper white" display that you can read after the lights are out.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

Grizzley9 (1407005) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821609)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"? If that's the case we might as well start considering smart phones PCs, since a modern tablet is basically just a scaled up smart phone.

Does the Windows 8 tablet count as a PC? If it does, then why not other tablets.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

macs4all (973270) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821629)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"? If that's the case we might as well start considering smart phones PCs, since a modern tablet is basically just a scaled up smart phone.

Are you new here?

Slahdot-think considers ANYTHING with a microcontroller/microprocessor in it a "computer".

Now, let's sit back and watch as they try to argue the opposite in 3... 2... 1

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821745)

iOS devices aren't even "smart" in the strict sense.
You can only run approved software on them, can't access the file system etc.
They are basically appliances. I'm sure many people are happy with that, but it's an insult to call them 'real computers', which PCs usually are.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (1)

guttentag (313541) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821751)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"?

No, not all. Some tablets are only personal on the Surface. Under that veneer they're rather impersonal. Isn't that right, Siri?

Let me think. Here's what I found: Input Interpretation: "Last[{}] Microsoft"

Apparently she has a sense of humor. I think she just invented an emoticon depicting the Surface as a two-faced (multi-faceted) schizo in a box.

It is funny because the Surface gets dead.

OK, no more Pixar movies for you.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821779)

For all that processing power, why not call them servers instead?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (2)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821795)

Steve Jobs said in 2010 that we were entering the "post-PC" era. To him and Apple, tablets are a different device than PCs and that many consumers are starting to supplement their computing with tablets. Tablets do not replace PCs in all situations but are better suited in certain ones like couch surfing.

Ballmer in D8 said the opposite and that tablets were a "different form factor of PC." So Ballmer himself agrees with Gartner. Of course Ballmer is known for putting his foot in his mouth.

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821839)

Do tablets really count as a "PC"?

They are personal and they perform computations. How are they not PC's?

Re:So tablets at PCs now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821913)

Yeah, if they're going to start stretching the definition of PC, why not include anything that computes.

Well look at that, Casio (originally called Casio Computer Company no less) is one of the largest calculator manufacturers on earth. I can't find any specific stats as to how many they produce a year, but call it a hunch, it's going to be at least an order of magnitude, if not several, higher than how many tablets and desktop computers Apple puts out.

Sad day indeed.. (3, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821417)

the worst influence and bully in the tech industry hits the already much abused PC form factor.

Re:Sad day indeed.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821837)

MicroSoft? I thought this story was about Apple.

Oh comon (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821439)

In what universe does someone consider an iPad to be a personal computer?

Re:Oh comon (2)

macs4all (973270) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821717)

In what universe does someone consider an iPad to be a personal computer?

Well, the Slashdot universe, for one. Well, at least they consider Android tablets and phones to be "Personal Computers"; so it should follow for (at least jailbroken) iPads/iPhones, too.

Absurd (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821453)

I declare the Coca-Cola Company king of the PC hill, what with all their shipments of soda. See, I can mix-and-match unrelated products, too.

Re:Absurd (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821815)

If PC standards for Personal Cola, then sure, why not

Hmmm. (5, Funny)

msauve (701917) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821459)

Apple is now the top politically correct vendor. That must be because they censor apps.

Re:Hmmm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821715)

which apps have they censored?

Re:Hmmm. (1)

macs4all (973270) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821733)

Apple is now the top politically correct vendor. That must be because they censor apps.

So does Google Play, and if the Microsoft App Store had any to censor, I'm sure they would/will do it, too...

So what? No thanks. (0)

kheldan (1460303) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821485)

I'll just keep building my own computers out of parts, like I've been doing for the last 30 years or so, and I can build several computers for what Apple would have me pay for a single one of theirs.

Re:So what? No thanks. (1)

micheas (231635) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821649)

If you are going to build your own tablet or smart phone I suspect you are going to want a 3d printer to make the case, which adds a significant amount to the up front costs.

Personally, I suspect one could make ones own smart phone for under 3k, but I haven't had the time to try. Would be a cool project though.

Re:So what? No thanks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821925)

Who needs a case?
A block of wood does fine.
If done right, it's a thing of beauty [techfresh.net] .

Re:So what? No thanks. (1)

Grizzley9 (1407005) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821651)

I'll just keep building my own computers out of parts, like I've been doing for the last 30 years or so, and I can build several computers for what Apple would have me pay for a single one of theirs.

And more power to you, but for many, cost is not the sole deciding factor. /not a Mac owner

Re:So what? No thanks. (1)

macs4all (973270) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821755)

I'll just keep building my own computers out of parts, like I've been doing for the last 30 years or so, and I can build several computers for what Apple would have me pay for a single one of theirs.

Good luck building that tablet!

Re:So what? No thanks. (1)

kheldan (1460303) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821957)

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have been more specific: I'll just keep building REAL computers, you know, the desktop type? I don't count tablets, e-readers, and smartphones in the same category, and for what it's worth, I haven't found anything even close to a justification for my owning a tablet, I don't like e-books thus no need for an e-reader, and dataplans from wireless companies are a huge rip-off so far as I'm concerned, so I'd rather just have a plain-old phone, not a smartphone anyway. When tablet computers are down below $100 (or I can just instruct the matter replicator to spit one out for me) then maybe I'll get one, but still I tend to not buy things I don't have a use for, and I still don't see where it'd be anything more than a shiny toy to me.

Wrong (5, Funny)

Barlo_Mung_42 (411228) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821501)

McDonalds is the top PC vendor, if you include Big Macs.

Re:Wrong (1)

RivenAleem (1590553) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821573)

Also serves to make the point that being top doesn't make you the best, or even mediocre.

Re:Wrong (1)

jonadab (583620) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821853)

> McDonalds is the top PC vendor, if you include Big Macs.

I was going to say something like that, except with Kraft Foods.

Actually, though, I think it might really be Bayer. They make a ton of PC, under the "Makrolon" brand. There's also Nintendo, they put a lot of PCs in some of their games.

Re:Wrong (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821855)

McDonalds is the top PC vendor, if you include Big Macs.

Tablets can run applications, games, crunch numbers, communicate on a network. It may not be PC to call a tablet a PC, but equating the computational abilities of tablets and Big Macs is just stupid.

Re:Wrong (1)

guttentag (313541) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821859)

McDonalds is the top PC vendor, if you include Big Macs.

I thought McDonald's was a server vendor, not a PC vendor. Billions and Billions Served. [brandi.org]

And Procter and Gamble (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821951)

for their sales of miniPads.

Apple - number one provider of personal computing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821523)

Schwinn - number one provider of personal transportation. Auto industry in panic.

Stupid (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821577)

Everyone knows Apple only sells Macs, not PCs.

Let's just set an official category definition... (3, Interesting)

eepok (545733) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821639)

I'll start. Here's how I use the words:

Personal Devices (Very limited, proprietary software)
-- Feature Phone
-- GPS Device

Personal Computing Devices (Limited, Consumption-based OSes, optional other-source software)
-- Tablets
-- Smartphones

Personal Computers (Traditional OSes like Windows, Linux, etc.; uses applications not truncated "apps")
-- Laptops/Notebooks
-- Netbooks
-- Desktop Computers

Justification to why they are definitely NOT pcs (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821703)

Justification to why they are definitely NOT pcs...

Because you still have to have an actual computer for certain day to day functionalities.

For example: Try using a flash website on an iPad.

Or try playing a modern video game that requires more input than just moving your finger across a piece of fruit.

The keyboard requirement listed above is definitely absurd, but these things are defined by other limitations.

Desktop Computer (1)

msheekhah (903443) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821713)

This definition died with the laptop. We've been on a downward spiral to the smartphone since. If you want to define PC's as Desktop computers and Laptops, computing devices with a keyboard and or mouse like device, it's still a bit shaky.

Person Says Dumb Thing. Why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821723)

Headline: Person Says Dumb Thing.
Slashdot: Why? Why They Say Dumb Thing? I Am Mad About Dumb Thing.

Repeat forever.

Form factor doesn't prevent it from being a PC (0)

spacepimp (664856) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821739)

It has a hard drive, a CPU, a BSD based OS, a screen, an input device and built in nifty keyboard, internet connectivity. It runs applications, can use the internet. shares a code base with OSX. It is a PC, and should be afforded the same rights as a PC. This idea of locking the user out because it is thin (different form factor) is only possible by perverting the term PC. Why is it that when I notice people trying to shift a term it is always to infringe some freedom they've been afforded that hinges on the term/word? A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator.

Run for the hills!!!! (5, Insightful)

BLToday (1777712) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821757)

The "tablet is not a PC" crowd will attack. And then the "tablet is a PC" crowd will counter-attack. Out of nowhere "some tablet are PC" crowd will join, but haven't shown their alliance. The "Apple is evil" along with the "Android/Chrome OS FTW" groups will join forces to fight everybody. Unfortunately, the hills may not protect us from the "Win8 will kill everyone".

Re:Run for the hills!!!! (1)

gnasher719 (869701) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821923)

The "tablet is not a PC" crowd will attack. And then the "tablet is a PC" crowd will counter-attack. Out of nowhere "some tablet are PC" crowd will join, but haven't shown their alliance. The "Apple is evil" along with the "Android/Chrome OS FTW" groups will join forces to fight everybody. Unfortunately, the hills may not protect us from the "Win8 will kill everyone".

I suspect that whether people belong to the "tablet is a PC" or "tablet is not a PC" crowd coincides strongly with whether they want or don't want Apple to be the largest PC vendor.

In the end, PC vendors don't care how many PCs they sell, they care about how much stuff they sell. There's no price for being the leader, especially no price for setting or bending the rules so that you are the leader; but there's a price (hard cash) for selling stuff at a profit. Apple sells x Macs and y iPads, and whether someone says they sell x PCs or (x + y) PCs doesn't matter to the bottom line.

Where it is important is when businesses care about what really happens. If HP says "we are selling four times more PCs than Apple, that's all we care about", then they might be making a big mistake. If they say "we sell so many servers, so many workstations, so many laptops, so many tablets, and these are our competitors..." that's probably a lot more healthy.

Tablets and at the very least iPads are no PCs (1, Interesting)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821773)

First of all in iPads you can not install your own software and you can only have crippled programming environments on it (some Basics e.g.)
So everything that defines a PC is impossible on an iPad.
Android might be looking better ... at least it is a "computing platform" on wich you indeed can compute and instal your own stuff and have an accessible file system.

Re:Tablets and at the very least iPads are no PCs (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821845)

iPads you can not install your own software

WTF? You absolutely can install your own software on iPads.

Re:Tablets and at the very least iPads are no PCs (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821863)

What do you call the ones that software developers use? They can install software! So the same system with the same hardware is both a PC and not a PC according to your definition.

Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821775)

We counted Apple IIs and Commodore 64s as PCs. These new systems are far more powerful and capable, why not call them PCs too?

Re:Why not? (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821945)

We counted Apple IIs and Commodore 64s as PCs. These new systems are far more powerful and capable, why not call them PCs too?

Apple ]['s and Commodore 64's could be opened up, hacked, modded, and have 3rd party software installed without having to battle with the manufacturer.

Of course a tablet is a PC (0)

beringreenbear (949867) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821809)

Taking the Apple click-bait out of the equation, this sounds about right from a broad view: Tablets and "smartphones" as PCs from a decade ago or-so in terms of computing power with funny form-factors and interfaces. The Market is still trying to figure out the form factor. The mini-HDMI out on many tablets, Bluetooth keyboards and mice, styluses, and other "accessories" show this.

What do I think we're seeing? A "transformer". A tablet on-the-go, a workstation when docked. Could I be wrong? Yes. Talk to me in ten years.

Yes, they are Personal Computers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821817)

They were Personal Computers when they were on the desktop.

They were Personal Computers when they migrated from the desktop to your laptop.

They are STILL Personal Computers now that they have migrated from your lap to your hand.

They will STILL be Personal Computers when they migrate to your wrist or your ear or your glasses.

"Self-hosting" is not a valid criteria (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42821909)

The Mac existed as a "Personal Computer" for several years before it was capable of compiling its own programs but nobody had any trouble calling it a "PC".

IMO, Vendor Lock-In == Not a PC (0)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42821933)

Think about it - the term is "personal" computer.

What's personal about a device you are not allowed to have complete control over? If Apple (or Google, or MS, or whoever) gets to decide what I can and cannot do with the hardware, is it really my "personal" computer? Of course not - it's a really, really expensive platform I'm leasing, essentially, from a corporation.

Thus, I find tablets and smartphones to be decidedly not PC (pun most definitely intended)

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?