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Surface Pro: 'Virtually Unrepairable'

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the you-break-it-keep-the-pieces dept.

Handhelds 418

An anonymous reader writes with a link to an article at Wired with some harsh words for Microsoft's new tablet: "The Surface Pro is not a repair-friendly machine. In fact, it's one of the least repairable devices iFixit has seen: In a teardown of Microsoft's tablet-laptop hybrid, the company gave it a rock-bottom score of just one — one! — out of 10 for repairability, lower even than Apple's iPad and the Windows Surface RT."

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Yawn. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896223)

Nobody repairs tablets.

Re:Yawn. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896597)

Nuh uh! All 10 surface pro buyers are furious!

Re:Yawn. (4, Insightful)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896705)

And it is high time someone pointed out how stupid that is.

It's the future... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896225)

Sadly more and more devices are like this now. Apple seem to have popularised it and made is acceptable and other companies seem to be continuing the trend.

Re:It's the future... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896277)

There were many things that said 'This unit contains no user serviceable parts' long before apple came along

Yeah, but the difference is... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896315)

Most of them lied about it for liability.

When a small device manufacturer says it, they mean 'not servicable by ANYONE' :)

Re:It's the future... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896487)

Yep, popularizing is the same thing as inventing. Congrats on your lack of basic reading comprehension skills.

Re:It's the future... (1)

Desler (1608317) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896615)

They didn't popularize it, though. It was already popular long before they made an iPhone or iPad.

Re:It's the future... (5, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896659)

No USER serviceable parts is a far cry from NO REPAIRS POSSIBLE AT ALL.

A: someone can repair it.

versus

B: NO ONE can repair it.

BIG DIFFERENCE

Re:It's the future... (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896753)

This is also a side effect of miniaturization. As things get smaller, the ability to be user repairable gets harder. Take AM/FM radios for example. When radios were the size of small appliance, a consumer with the right tools could fix things. When they could be carried on a shoulder, it became harder. When they can be carried in your pocket, there is very little that can be repaired. I took apart one of these small ones. There was a single logic board with a few chips and enough space for a battery.

Re:It's the future... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896385)

Sadly more and more devices are like this now. Apple seem to have popularised it and made is acceptable and other companies seem to be continuing the trend.

And yet again Apple is at the root of all evil....

Re:It's the future... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896461)

Get used to it, been that way since Genesis.

Re:It's the future... (5, Funny)

telchine (719345) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896561)

Get used to it, been that way since Genesis.

Leave Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins out of this!

Re:It's the future... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896505)

And yet again, a fanboy blindly defends even their most egregious practices.

or it's armored (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896439)

The other posibility is that it's armored to be drop-resistant. Just saying.

Re:It's the future... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896459)

Sadly more and more devices are like this now. Apple seem to have popularised it and made is acceptable and other companies seem to be continuing the trend.

Microsoft's tablet is unrepairable BUT IT'S ALL APPLE'S FAULT!!!

Re:It's the future... (2)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896671)

Sadly more and more devices are like this now. Apple seem to have popularised it and made is acceptable and other companies seem to be continuing the trend.

Apple devices are often repairable, what they are often not is user-repairable. They will gladly offer things like battery replacements, basically at the same price for what a standalone battery would have cost you. If you ever have to replace it then it's a little bit of more work, and in return you get more battery volume and more battery time.

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY! (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896241)

just wanted to be the first to comment :)

Re:HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896263)

well, you fucked that up, I can only hope your love life is better

Re:HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY! (3, Funny)

telchine (719345) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896583)

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
And Microsoft's tablet is full of glue!

Re:HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896639)

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
And Microsoft's tablet is full of glue!

Face is all red,
Head's got no hair,
Fix Ballmer's laptop, he'll throw you his chair!

Re:HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY! (4, Funny)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896681)

Shouldn't that be

Xbox is red, Windows is blue, And Microsoft's tablet is full of glue!

Enter the modern world of ... (5, Insightful)

Skapare (16644) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896247)

... waste!!! Manufacturers just want you to buy another to replace yours which is designed to break soon. Manufacturers win with more diversion of economy (e.g. repeat sales). World loses.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (1)

war4peace (1628283) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896279)

Sad but true. I still have quite a few old phones which work perfectly fine but can't really be re-used.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (4, Funny)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896349)

Self-breaking windows :(

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (2)

systemidx (2708649) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896297)

I disagree. I think this will hurt sales more than anything. I don't own an ipad for this very reason and I won't be the owner of a surface pro either, apparently.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896419)

And you are pretty well the only one who thinks that way. Have fun living under your rock.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896571)

At least his rock is modular and replaceable.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (2)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896591)

I disagree. I think this will hurt sales more than anything.

I don't own an ipad for this very reason and I won't be the owner of a surface pro either, apparently.

Yea, this.

Given the option, I refuse to buy products that are designed to fail within a specific period of time, namely because I'm not an idiot with more money than sense.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (4, Insightful)

Desler (1608317) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896663)

And you and the GP are irrelevant minorities.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (2)

Stormwatch (703920) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896675)

Hurt what sales? I don't think many people are interested in the Surface either way.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (2)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896715)

I disagree. I think this will hurt sales more than anything.

I don't own an ipad for this very reason and I won't be the owner of a surface pro either, apparently.

You don't have to throw it away just because something breaks. Apple offers service and repairs of iPads.

Do you only buy cars that you can repair everything on yourself?

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (1)

pswPhD (1528411) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896521)

... waste!!! Manufacturers just want you to buy another to replace yours which is designed to break soon. Manufacturers win with more diversion of economy (e.g. repeat sales). World loses.

I'm not as pessimistic. I don't think that many people are going to buy one- so not much wasted. Problem solved

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (1)

Skapare (16644) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896679)

Your solution needs a heavy duty military grade "Like" button that won't break after 1048576 uses.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (5, Insightful)

bws111 (1216812) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896537)

Every clip, connector, screw, etc that is needed to make something 'repairable' adds weight, bulk, and cost. People have clearly demonstrated that weight, size, and cost win out over repairability when making their purchasing decisions. You can't lay it all (or even most of it) at the feet of the manufacturers.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (3, Insightful)

Stormthirst (66538) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896637)

And who in the consumer world expects their device to go wrong and therefore need to be repaired. People just don't think like that. They've got used to laptops being so expensive to repair they might as well buy a new one - tablets are just as bad.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896735)

The tech nerds who posted above that they won't buy products that aren't repairable.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (3, Insightful)

OolimPhon (1120895) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896701)

People have clearly demonstrated that weight, size, and cost win out over repairability when making their purchasing decisions.

Er, no. People can only buy what is available. It is the manufacturers who decide what weight, size and cost their products will be, not the purchasers.

If all manufacturers choose not to make their products repairable then where is the choice?

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (3, Insightful)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896733)

This. The surface was labeled a "brick" by many reviews for being only 0.1" thicker than an iPad. I imagine with a core i5, getting it down to 0.5" thick was an incredible challenge given the cooling needs of the processor. To be 0.5" thick *and* be easy to service with all the requisite clips and connectors seems like an impossible task.

Re:Enter the modern world of ... (4, Insightful)

rnturn (11092) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896589)

``Manufacturers just want you to buy another to replace yours which is designed to break soon.''

And it's software, too. I'm sure most /.ers saw the article about Office 2013 being tied to a specific system... for life. Fatal laptop problem that requires replacement? You'll need to buy a new copy of Office as well; no re-installation of your copy of Office on your new laptop allowed. (Frankly, I think MS is going to have to do an about face on that policy unless they want to lose home customers in droves.) My wife -- who owns the only computer in the house that runs Windows -- was disgusted when she read that. She won't be a repeat Office customer after learning that.

Planned obsolescence (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896257)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

as repairable as any modern gadget (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896281)

"It simply is not designed to be opened or fixed at home, except perhaps by teardown expert"

Hasn't that generally been the case for a few decades now, for lots and lots of things? They are basically bitching that there are lot of screws and glue. It's not a simple device.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896305)

some have still some parts to replace.

like battery etc.. http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+Teardown/12842/ [ifixit.com]

dunno why the fuck the article links to wired.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896441)

The battery is replaceable, so is the SSD. They used a heatgun, screwdriver, and tweezers to totally dismantle the entire product. How is that 'virtually impossible to repair'?

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896621)

Nobody should have to apply heat to a lithium ion battery in order to replace it. That is insane. Every step past removing the kickstand seemed to require you to pry the glass cover and LCD off a rigid metal frame, also with liberal application of heat to the device.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896743)

That's why you can send it in and let them replace the battery for you. I don't know if Microsoft offers that, but Apple does.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896643)

Because it required a heatgun and tweezers, as opposed to a screwdriver and, well, a screwdriver.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896665)

They also said that the battery is impossible to remove without destroying the back cover. Where will you get a replacement cover from? Better get your 3D printer ready. Even then, only a person of great skill could get to the battery without destroying other components in the process.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896359)

No this is a completely new manufacturing practice, invented at Microsoft R&D (aka Satan's Den). That's why it's actually news.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (4, Informative)

Zemran (3101) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896429)

Not true, a couple of years ago I would have argued with you as I repaired many MacBook Pros and Thinkpads etc. which were easy to get apart and put back together without breaking anything. Now they are specifically designed to stop you doing that. It is only the timeframe that I am arguing...

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (3, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896651)

It's not that they're specifically designed with preventing repair in mind; it's that they're not designed with repairs in mind at all. In the increased pursuit of miniaturisation Apple (and now MS) have completely removed repairability as a design consideration.

Re:as repairable as any modern gadget (2)

Hatta (162192) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896529)

Hasn't that generally been the case for a few decades now, for lots and lots of things?

Yes, but that doesn't mean we should stop complaining about it. No, it means that we should complain louder than ever. There's no reason, besides greed, that these things are not repairable.

I worked at MS... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896283)

And I got into a heated debate with my manager about Microsoft making so many of the computers in the world end up in the trash bin and poisoning 3rd world countries beyond what other tech companies were doing... I was a top performer in my group but for some reason I was given a bad review by someone who wasnt even my manager and I was basically blacklisted from moving anywhere else in the company.

So count me not surprised by this news

Re:I worked at MS... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896373)

I think the larger WTF here is that someone other than a coworker or your manager can give you a review (that matters).

Re:I worked at MS... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896447)

You're surprised? I'd say that is the "norm"...

Most companies are like High School, immature, clickish, and the people in charge (teachers/managers) can do anything they want :P

No your HR department, won't tell it can be done... (you don't actually think HR cares about you do you ?)

Re:I worked at MS... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896519)

I'm sure your internal customers wanna have a say in your performance too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360-degree_feedback [wikipedia.org]

Re:I worked at MS... (1)

virgnarus (1949790) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896453)

I take it the conversation started with a comment about the stability of Windows?

Planned Obsolescence (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896289)

Designed this way, if you can't repair it you just might buy a new one or even the 'next generation' product.

Quoting from Wikipedia (*cough*) but it's not a new concept.
E.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#Systemic_obsolescence

"Another way of introducing systemic obsolescence is to eliminate service and maintenance for a product. If a product fails, the user is forced to purchase a new one."

Welcome to your two minute hate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896295)

How predictable of Slashdot.

Re:Welcome to your two minute hate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896535)

Go fuck yourself. With a rake.

disposable tech (1)

Scaboo (2737205) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896329)

The culture of repair, a term used by a colleague of mine, has been on life support, at best, for a long time now (if it isn't already dead and buried). As much as the facts surrounding the Surface Pro and the inability to repair it are unfortunate, I wonder if people really expect to be able to fix their gadgets any more.

Re:disposable tech (3, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896409)

If they insist on killing the culture of repair, as you put it - they really need to stop throwing shit in the ocean and landfills. It's only sustainable if you actually recycle.

Re:disposable tech (1)

zrelativity (963547) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896567)

Being able to repair and able to recycle need not correlate.

With increasing level of integration, and cramming so many devices into such small packages, means that you need very specialized manufacturing process.

Re:disposable tech (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896725)

If I can't easily break down something, then chances are that the minimum wage (probably Mexican) drone at the recycling center can't/won't break it down either.

That means it will just be considered trash and not recycled.

The standards for this already set a pretty low bar for "bother".

Re:disposable tech (2)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896765)

I think you misunderstood me. What I meant to say, is if they insist on devices being unrepairable and unserviceable, then they need to enforce recycling - else we just waste that much more of the valuable resources that go into them. It's irresponsible not to do so.

Re:disposable tech (2)

dyingtolive (1393037) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896745)

The problem is that 'they' don't care about anything beyond next quarter's results.

'They' certainly don't care about your "faggy pinko" (words I'm inserting into 'their' mouths, not mine) concerns like the environment. Someone else will figure it out.

Re:disposable tech (1)

SomePgmr (2021234) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896455)

It comes and goes. Lately I've seen a lot more of it. Modding hardware, improving it, fixing things, build your own, etc. The hobby electronics/diy/maker thing is popular right now. As far as trends go, I'd say it's a pretty good one, and I hope it sticks around.

Re:disposable tech (4, Insightful)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896693)

Hardware manufacturers have been trying to kill off the repair business for the same reason video game makers are trying to kill off the used game market - every dollar you spend fixing something you already own, is a dollar they don't get.

What blows my mind are the hypocrites here on /. who will wail endlessly about EA and Sony locking a game disk to a particular console (i.e., something that really doesn't matter in the 'big scheme of things'), then subsequently accuse people who complain about hardware makers doing the exact same thing of being "buggy whip makers," even though the trend of planned obsolescence in hardware is far more dangerous to society than anything having to do with a stupid fucking video game.

Re:disposable tech (5, Informative)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896763)

I've spoken to people at my local TV repair shop, and they expect to be out of business soon. Modern hardware isn't repairable. Even replaceable components aren't: They cited the flyback transformer as an example. A frequent failure in CRT displays, and easily replaceable: A little soldering, but that's all. Except that the newer CRTs (before everything went flat) needed calibrating for the exact value of resistance and inductance of the flyback, to compensate for slight variences between individual components even off the production line, and those calibration values are stored in an EPROM chip which cannot be so easily replaced, in a propritary format for which the manufacturer never released any tools or documentation, accessible usually by entering a secret handshake known only by the manufacturer via either a hidden serial port or the IR control interface. The flyback may be replaceable, but it won't do you any good. It's easier to just buy a whole new TV than to reverse-engineer one enough to repair it.

It's sturdy like no other tablet before, though (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896345)

So unless there's a hardware-failure or you need to get a new display, both of which are likely to require service anyway, I am indifferent to this.

Re:It's sturdy like no other tablet before, though (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896619)

I cannot find a single shop is my 1.2m-citizen city that will repair any tablets or modern smartphones.

I'm shocked ... (4, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896357)

OK, not really.

For starters, I can't imagine it being easy to make a tablet you can open up and make changes to.

And then every manufacturer would rather you replace the device when it breaks or needs upgrading. And if they can get you locked into their software, even better.

Companies don't really care about consumers rights, and they never will. They're only in it to make profit -- I don't care who the vendor is, they'll all do it.

Microsoft, Apple, and even Google since they're trying to drive everything you do to the things that make them money and make sure you have to keep buying their stuff.

Brave New World (4, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896361)

"Ending is better than mending. The more stitches, the less riches."
-Aldous Huxley

Of course a consumer society isn't supposed to have anything that can be repaired by a normal human being. If you want anything, you're supposed to cough up your hard-earned cash to your corporate overlords.

Less repairable and moving parts (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896363)

Not only it is less repairable iPad, but it also has moving parts(two fans).
The short battery life also ensures the battery will go through more cycles faster.

Well that's the point. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896379)

Microsoft and the rest of the manufacturers hawking tablets at the moment don't really want you to -think- about them too much...because the more you start to think, the more you realize... Hey, my desktop or laptop already does everything that does. And more besides. Plus it actually costs less, has more storage space, runs the operating system I choose, so on and so forth... The problem is they're not selling enough new hardware, and enough new licenses for said hardware...solution? Release hardware that can't be upgraded. Get people on the upgrade "treadmill" thinking they're getting a better deal, up until they actually have to repair the thing. If the only easy option available is "get another tablet" that's what most people are going to do, even if it is a phenomenally bad idea -- because there won't be any other choice.

why repair when you can replace (1)

goblinspy (2738809) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896397)

Who wants to keep an old 1 year old tablet if there are new shinier things in the next year.

This is not news (1)

jamesl (106902) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896399)

High volume consumer devices have been not-repairable for years. If it fails during warranty, you get a new or "refurbished" unit for free. If it fails outside of warranty you may get a new or "refurbished" unit at lower than list price. Or you may not.

Short of sliding it off the table onto a concrete floor at Starbucks, the failure rate on these should be vanishingly small.

If you're really worried, you can "Protect your Surface with a 2-year extended warranty and technical support service." for $99. Best Buy will sell you a "Product Replacement Plan" for a price.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Re:This is not news (3, Funny)

mister_playboy (1474163) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896595)

Best Buy will sell you a "Product Replacement Plan" for a price.

When the BB cashier offers a warranty plan, I like to respond by saying I don't think the company will still exist in 2 years... :)

Re:This is not news (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896757)

High volume consumer devices have been not-repairable for years. If it fails during warranty, you get a new or "refurbished" unit for free.

...

Do you know not what the word "refurbished" means?

Virtually or Literally? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896411)

So virtually unrepairable would mean it's not really unrepairable, right?

http://cutewriting.blogspot.com/2009/04/literally-practically-and-virtually.html [blogspot.com]

Re:Virtually or Literally? (2)

mister_playboy (1474163) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896611)

It means you can't repair it unless you leave the holodeck first. Freakin' DRM, I tell ya...

Re:Virtually or Literally? (1)

Freshly Exhumed (105597) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896649)

And why isn't it irreparable, as opposed to unrepairable? The both pass the dictionary test, but...

virtually unrepariable
virtually irreparable
literally unrepairable
literally irreparable

I like that last one best.

Thinness, weight and repairability (4, Insightful)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896469)

There's a direct trade-off between thinness/weight and repairability. As it stands the device is already being heavily criticized for being just 0.5" thick and weighing 2 lbs. To get it even at that point, apparently glue had to be used in place of a lot of fasteners that make repairing easy. Now I expect we'll see the same people criticizing it for weight/thickness also criticizing it for not having a removable battery, hard drive, and memory, all of which add weight/thickness. Dell's Latitude 10 comes in fixed and removable battery configurations, the later weighs 0.04 lbs more. Keep in mind while it's not much, the margin between Surface and its closet competitors like iPad are 0.1" thickness and 0.5 lbs, so every bit counts.

So like everything there's a choice. Do you want a core i5 processor or do you want a long battery life? Do you want a super thin machine, or do you want an easy to repair machine?

Wastre Tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896475)

I would impose some kind of waste tax. Stuff that gets broken / unusable too quickly and leaving only special waste behind should be more expensive than long-life devices. I'm not sure how that could be accomplished though.

But will it blend? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896477)

http://willitblend.com/

Since the VCR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896489)

Almost all consumer electronic devices have been disposable.

Slashdot + internet stahp! (1, Flamebait)

m1ndcrash (2158084) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896509)

Can you stop this explainable hatred on this tablet? It's a tool aimed at professionals like myself. I want productivity and ability to work with a full OS, not a castrated version barely capable of browsing porn. When iPad/Android will be able to run Diablo 3 on maximum settings [forbes.com] we will have an adult discussion.

Re:Slashdot + internet stahp! (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896635)

Can you stop this explainable hatred on this tablet?

Can we stop the irrational hatred of Apple too? Or are you doing the usual fanboi thing?

When iPad/Android will be able to run Diablo 3 on maximum settings we will have an adult discussion.

Sorry, but when did porn and Diablo 3 is the benchmark for utility? Did I miss a memo?

Enjoy your 5 hour battery life, I'll stick with the 10 I get out of my original iPad.

Glad you like your Surface Pro -- but that doesn't mean people aren't getting a lot of use and utility out of both iPad and Android tablets.

Re:Slashdot + internet stahp! (0)

Toreo asesino (951231) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896685)

You've come to the wrong place if you wanted constructive criticism - Slashdot it only interested in positive reinforcement that Microsoft is doomed and anything it produces is in every way inferior to anything else on the market. You'll see no article that shines any positive light on MS here.

So please take your facts & reason and take them elsewhere :)

But in all seriousness, the Surface Pro is a great device - laptop & tablet in one. Yes there's some trade-offs but no other tablet let's you run legacy WinApps in quite such style, IMO.

Much huff about nothing (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896545)

Let's be realistic. Tablets and phones are pretty much assumed *NOT* to have any user serviceable parts in them. Hell, even laptops -- I don't recall these ever being held to that standard and they had a much better chance of ever getting user-upgradable CPU/RAM/Harddrive features. Most people could never take the damn things apart to upgrade them anyway. It's only been the recent last 8 years or so the Dell has removable plates next to the ram -- the CPU has always been buried. So stop with all the arm waving about how these devices are "tarred" together and can't have the battery replaced. Until someone comes out with a FULLY USER UPGRADEABLE phone or tablet, there's no point in beating anyone up over it.

Re:Much huff about nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896749)

You are being unrealistic, this isn't about user upgrades like PCs, you created that strawman. This is about repairability. Batteries are high fail rate components, that's a fact of life and will be for the forseable future. There's no need to dump a perfectly working device because the battery performance is down to 27% charge length, or has gone into "I'm dead" memory mode and will no accept a charge.

Unless substandard components have been used, like the terrible capacitors used a few years ago, electronics should last for decades. Ensuring the consumer cannot replace the battery, and have people like you defending them, they have successfully created their wet-dreams. Product that are fine, but have to be thrown away, just as in Fordism in Brave New World.

The only thing to score lower... (1)

AC-x (735297) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896547)

The iPad 2 Smart Cover [ifixit.com] , the only thing to score lower at a pitiful 0 out of 10! </joke>

unrepairable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896563)

Of course you can repair it: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Microsoft-Surface-Pro-can-run-Linux_id39712

No one wants a repairable tablet (2)

the computer guy nex (916959) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896601)

To make a tablet that can be easily repairable and upgradable, you are making concessions on the size and weight of the product.

Fact is the majority of consumers couldn't repair their tablet even if it scored '10 of 10'. Given the choice, they would choose the thinner and lighter product every time.

For Business A CAPEX Sink Hole (1)

Freshly Exhumed (105597) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896605)

The "unrepairable" Surface Pro (that Microsoft is aiming at business) is symbolic of an unfortunate trend in Corporate IT budgeting towards thinking of user devices as "burned money" with little or no long term benefit. While conventional laptops retain some value beyond the current quarter and a certain level of repair costs can be budgeted towards them, devices like the Surface Pro turn budgeting of such estimated costs into a total crap shoot.

Hype (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896633)

This is a lot of hype when it gets almost the exact same rating as the Macbook Pro. Not sure why they don't get the same flack.

Face it, no one repairs electronics anymore so is this really an issue? How is this any different than 30 or 40 years ago when TVs started using transistors and you were unable to easily replace out your tubes yourself? As things get smaller and more compact they're just not going to be user servicable.

is this a bad thing? (1)

markhahn (122033) | about a year and a half ago | (#42896657)

I like modular designs - what programmer wouldn't?
but there is no question that modularity constrains the overall design. the module itself must have a fixed interface, making it inefficient by varying degrees, depending on how far from the sweet spot you are. (imagine that cars had modular engines: would the module interface be big enough to handle a particular displacement? could you drop in a hybrid version?) not only are you loosing efficiency within the module, but the connected modules have to assume a fixed spec (drivetrain would have to handle a 250 HP engine even if you opted for the 70 HP model). all aspects of interface would be constrained - mechanical, spatial, electrical, etc.

for a tablet, integration is usually a win: glueing is cheaper and more secure than screws, and smaller and lighter. integrating touch+lcd+backlight means that breaking it means replacing it all, but the integrated version is _inherently_ better because, for instance, touch+lcd electrodes can be integrated and even tuned to minimize interference.

the main question is really where you draw the boundaries: is the tablet a whole, integrated unit, or a composite of replacable modules? to the customer, a replacable screen really only makes sense if you expect to break screens a lot (why?). batteries are in a different category, since they all have well-defined cycle-based lifespans. (though buttons do too - the difference is just that it's not expensive to engineer buttons to last a long time, and doing so doesn't impair the performance of the button. life-vs-performance is a very real tradeoff with batteries...)

Couldn't this be reasonable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42896741)

Why does something this simple need to be nefarious? Isn't there room for a common-sense explanation? Are you telling me the folks at iFixit could change the assembly to be just as small and durable without using any permanent fixtures? This is a geek website, surely some geeks can treat the design of an assembly as more than a black box that someone else needs to make "better."

Given the effort that goes into minimizing devices, isn't it just possible that building tiny yet durable devices requires the use of less convenient assembly methods? A screw (and the accompanying boss) incrementally increase the required depth and bulk of the device. Adhesive can hold load over a much larger area, reducing stress and non-uniform movement. Maybe these merits mattered, and not some sinister need to lock in customers?

Look at it this way: For some reason, iFixit complains about the number of screws holding in components (is it really that much harder to remove 29 screws than to remove 4?). Do they feel this is just to inhibit dis-assembly, given the added design and assembly cost and complexity for adding extra fasteners? I'm sure the design would use two screws if that was sufficient. As an owner, sure, it would be better if the battery was replaceable. But, considering home much real estate the battery occupies, and the need to secure that mass in a portable device, I am not surprised that the best solution for durability and size had to sacrifice repair-ability. Maybe the designers even took this into account when they saw fit to use "the Cadillac of batteries" in this device. A great battery may be a worthwhile cost when the battery can't be replaced.

For anyone here who designs anything (physical or digital), aren't there real design constraints that add to the magnitude of your work? Maybe constraints that aren't obvious until you get into the nitty-gritty of making it work? What would you say if a casual observer asserted you made your choices primarily to piss off the end user? I'm not saying that never happens, but isn't the simplest explanation just that "that was the best way to solve a hard problem?"

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