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Sony Exercising Its Acquisition of GaiKai, Plans To Stream Games To PS4

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the watch-your-caps-gentlepersons dept.

PlayStation (Games) 129

dmfinn writes "With less than 5 days until the reported PS4 launch event, new details are emerging regarding some of the console's next-gen capabilities. Since last June, Sony has been quietly sitting on its $380 million dollar acquisition of Gaikai, a cloud based gaming company. The Wall Street Journal, among other sources, is now reporting that the PS4 will have GaiKai's cloud-based gaming technology directly integrated, thought it is unclear exactly what types of games will be available for streaming. Back in June, a rumor circulated that Sony was planning to use the technology to support backwards compatibility with PS2 and PS1 games, though no further details have arisen regarding whether or not the new console will be able to play previous generation games. It appears that Sony will most likely be using the service to stream PS3 and indie games to the console, as the current technology only supports 720p, not high enough quality for blockbuster games. Constantly streaming interactive graphics, even if only at 720p, will still require a fast internet connection. Services like OnLive have struggled in the past due to the large amount of bandwidth they require, and many consumers complained of laggy connections and horrendous graphics. There is no word yet regarding the features of the games being streamed, including whether or not they will support online or local multiplayer."

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Sony: you are idiots (-1, Troll)

faragon (789704) | about a year and a half ago | (#42920901)

Why such massive computational power? Just to decode h264 streams and spend lots of money in centralized servers? For that there is no need for releasing a PS4, they could use current PS3 hardware, more than enough for receive and play such streams.

IMO, Sony will go bankrupt eventually. That is non-sense, and non-scalable.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (2)

Knuckles (8964) | about a year and a half ago | (#42920915)

Maybe console gamers want hardware that is not several years behind current PC quality?

Re:Sony: you are idiots (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42920935)

Maybe console gamers want hardware that is not several years behind current PC quality?

So basically console gamers are in a e-penis contest with pc gamers.
Ironic considering that if you stream games all that superior e-penis power goes to waste.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (5, Insightful)

Knuckles (8964) | about a year and a half ago | (#42920953)

So basically console gamers are in a e-penis contest with pc gamers.

Who said that? You know very well that it's simply fun to have a new machine with better game graphics.

Ironic considering that if you stream games all that superior e-penis power goes to waste.

Nobody said PS4 would be stream-only, as far as I can tell.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (-1, Flamebait)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921063)

You did. If the point of the console is to play remotely generated games, delivered over streamed 720p, then it can be done with 10+ year old hardware. Refreshing hardware for no technical reason, which is implied by your statements, could only be for a "horsepower" war. It's obviously not needed to deliver 720p.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (2)

Knuckles (8964) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921095)

I don't know what you are talking about. The OP had complained about PS4's horsepower, saying that it isn't needed for streaming. I replied that PS4 will not be just for streaming, and that for other games (disk-based) faster hardware is obviously desireable.

Then why not just buy a PC? (2)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921067)

You know very well that it's simply fun to have a new machine with better game graphics.

Then why not just buy a PC or put a new video card in your existing PC? A new video card will have HDMI out for your TV.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921119)

I agree that that's an option. But I don't need to reiterate to you the (perceived or real) advantates of consoles over PCs. It's a fact that some people prefer a console (at least for some games/applications/rooms) whether you like it or not, and I still think it's stupid if the OP complains about the PS4 being faster than the aged PS3. And what's really dumb is the AC saying that wanting faster hardware is automatically the same as having entered in a pissing contest, and to accuse console players in particular just because a new console generation will be launched. If wanting faster hardware was somehow wrong in itself (which it isn't) the charge should surely be directed at PC gamers.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (4, Insightful)

Kohath (38547) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921177)

Because

- too expensive
- it's no fun using keyboard and mouse on the sofa
- PCs have noisy fans and ugly cases
- you can't play Sony's exclusive games
- you also can't play other console-only games like Red Dead
- installing drivers and OS updates sucks
- PCs need to be replaced with a new model every 3-4 years. Game console cycles last 5-7 years.
- windows 8

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921409)

too expensive

A gaming PC can cost less than $400. The PS3 was ridiculed for costing "five hundred and ninety-nine U.S. dollars" at launch.

it's no fun using keyboard and mouse on the sofa

PCs support USB gamepads. These can be native PC controllers (largely made by Logitech), Xbox 360 wired controllers, Xbox 360 wireless controllers through the wireless receiver, or classic console controllers through adapters from infiniteneslives.com and retrousb.com.

PCs have noisy fans

Any noisier than Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 fans?

and ugly cases

More home-theater-appropriate cases are available.

you can't play Sony's exclusive games

Nor can you play Microsoft's exclusive games on a PlayStation family platform.

you also can't play other console-only games like Red Dead

Nor can you play PC-only games on a PlayStation family platform. I count a lot more PC-only games than PS3-only games and projected PS4-only games combined.

PCs need to be replaced with a new model every 3-4 years.

Source?

Game console cycles last 5-7 years.

There are exceptions of course. Why did the Nintendo DS replace the Game Boy Advance after about 3 1/2 years (second quarter 2001 to fourth quarter 2004)? Why did the Xbox 360 replace the Xbox after four?

windows 8

It would appear that the Modern UI-style Start Screen of Windows 8 actually makes it easier to launch games using a controller. That could be why the Xbox 360 dashboard resembles Windows 8's Start Screen more than it resembles Windows 7's Start Menu.

I'll bite (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921609)

PCs have noisy fans -> Yes, significantly

PCs need to be replaced with a new model every 3-4 years -> Gaming PC's do, but not for the sake of a new model. All that heat fries your mobo and graphics card. You're $400 gaming PC might not have this trouble though.

More home-theater-appropriate cases are available. -> You won't build a $400 gaming PC that is a) quite and b) as fast as a current gen game console. Those quite cases alone are $200.

PCs support USB gamepads -> PC's support Microsoft XBox gaming pads. It's hell to set up anything else because there's no standard for button numbering. I've pushed button 1 on my controller and had it show up as button 3 in game. Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit was particularly nightmarish to configure. XBox Controller Emulator helps this though.

Why did the Nintendo DS replace the Game Boy Advance after about 3 1/2 years -> The last GBA game was Final Fantasy IV Advanced, released 2006. So about 5 years, give or take.

Control config; daddy system (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921739)

You won't build a $400 gaming PC that is a) quite and b) as fast as a current gen game console.

Acer makes the Aspire X series of compact PCs that are roughly the size of the original Xbox 360, and anything with an AMD CPU will come with an integrated graphics processor capable of gaming. I have one, and it's been far less noisy than my cousin's original Xbox 360.

It's hell to set up anything else because there's no standard for button numbering.

I'm aware of this, and I've been doing a bit of research toward this [pineight.com] . A PC game developer's best bet is to find the most common controllers among users, possibly using some counterpart to Microsoft's Customer Experience Improvement Program, and bundle working presets for those controllers with the game. These would include at least the Gravis/Logitech layout and the Xbox 360 layout.

I've pushed button 1 on my controller and had it show up as button 3 in game.

Then you played defective games. A game seeing a particular brand of controller for the first time should show a list of buttons to press in order. Once the player has pressed Up, Down, Left, Right, Jump, Fire, Special, and Pause, the configuration for that controller is saved. Someone using a Genesis RetroPort [retrousb.com] , for example, would take eight seconds to press Up, Down, Left, Right, C, B, A, and Start, and that hurdle is surpassed on that machine.

The last GBA game was Final Fantasy IV Advanced, released 2006. So about 5 years, give or take.

You're referring to what some have called "lame duck" games and what others have called the daddy system [tvtropes.org] . Games compatible with old PCs are still being released, just as PS1 games continued to come out during the first several years of the PS2 and PS2 games continued to come out during the first several years of the PS3. So I call this a wash.

Re:Control config; daddy system (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922489)

doesn't the *very fact* that you had too explain all that exemplify why pc gaming is a huge pain in the ass for a lot of people? i like of games. i have a very nice gaming pc for the occasional pc exclusive like diablo or civ. it's great.

but i mainly play on consoles. i just like them better. they're hassle free for me. i can just sit on my couch and chill and play a game without having to worry about whether my controller works or how to hook my gaming pc into my tv. consoles are great.

but guess what? i realize other people have different opinions than me. some people love playing games on pc - great! as someone who loves games too, more power to you. i don't think there's a need for me to try and get you to switch to consoles by typing up angry rants on the internet. and vice versa.

Re:Control config; daddy system (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922825)

i have a very nice gaming pc for the occasional pc exclusive

If there were a PC-exclusive game that used gamepads in local multiplayer mode, would you reject it for using gamepads on a PC or for attempting local multiplayer on a PC? Is it inappropriate to sell a game for PC while seeking a console publisher?

Re:Control config; daddy system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42923119)

no. why would i care about that? game pads are great for some of games.

i don't play multiplayer games though so i guess i'm not sure what you're getting at.

Re:Control config; daddy system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42923229)

no. why would i care about any of that? game pads are great for some games.

i don't play multiplayer games though so i'm not sure what you're getting at.

Re:I'll bite (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922591)

PCs have noisy fans -> Yes, significantly

Nope. Gaming laptop, passively cooled desktop/settop or a PC with a quality cooling system.

PCs need to be replaced with a new model every 3-4 years -> Gaming PC's do, but not for the sake of a new model. All that heat fries your mobo and graphics card. You're $400 gaming PC might not have this trouble though.

A Geforce 8800/9800 will still play most games with good quality. For anything less, you can always adjust detail levels to get playable performance and still considerably better visuals than PS3/360. One of the benefits of PC gaming, you have precise control over how it runs. I've seen Crysis 2 and Skyrim run fine on Intel integrated GPUs when adjusted accordingly.

More home-theater-appropriate cases are available. -> You won't build a $400 gaming PC that is a) quite and b) as fast as a current gen game console. Those quite cases alone are $200.

Xi3 is $500 right now. I'm willing to bet that the Valve branded version will cost less. For just a case, try $40-50 [amazon.com]

PCs support USB gamepads -> PC's support Microsoft XBox gaming pads. It's hell to set up anything else because there's no standard for button numbering. I've pushed button 1 on my controller and had it show up as button 3 in game. Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit was particularly nightmarish to configure. XBox Controller Emulator helps this though.

I've been using game pads on my PC since the original Gravis and not a single problem. You're doing it wrong.

Why did the Nintendo DS replace the Game Boy Advance after about 3 1/2 years -> The last GBA game was Final Fantasy IV Advanced, released 2006. So about 5 years, give or take.

Yeah and the last Neo Geo (and Dreamcast) game came out in 2012, that doesn't mean the console didn't actually die off a whole lot earlier.

400$ is a BS PC and not a Gaming PC (1)

medv4380 (1604309) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921669)

The problem with the PC is that it is a moving target. I can never have all the hardware necessary to play the latest games properly on it. For 400 bucks I can tell you that you're probably not able to play Diablo III correctly, and you'd be plagued with an annoying slight stutter. Its because the dame game was made for high end hard drives and the only solution is a Solid State Drive because it's constantly streaming data off the dame thing to avoid load screens. A typical Gaming Hard drive is 250GB and at 400 bucks that's half the cost of your little "gaming" PC. According to Steam NVidia is the highest install base for Graphics cards and their highest install NVidia is the GTX 560 ti. Again that's half the cost of your 400 buck POS. Then there is RAM and Gaming RAM isn't that Cheap 20$ crap you play with. For decent Gaming RAM you're looking at spending a bit more. Then there is the God Dame Processor. According to Steam most people are running an Intel with 2 or 4 cores. That's another 200 bucks. Then there is the motherboard, monitor, and the MF constant upgrading because PCs arn't married to a single spec so developers are constantly changing the god dame target spec I need to play. 400 gets you a PC that can play games over 5 years old and No Monitor, and the latest games on the LOWEST graphical settings. You can't buy the parts to make a PC for as cheap as you can with a Console and get the relyable gameplay you do with them.

You can pick out a poorly engineered game (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921851)

For 400 bucks I can tell you that you're probably not able to play Diablo III correctly, and you'd be plagued with an annoying slight stutter. Its because the dame game was made for high end hard drives

You can pick out a poorly engineered game for any platform. Look at the long loading pauses in early PSP games. PSP Load time Heaven and Hell [youtube.com] compares a WWE game to GripShift, where the player completes several objectives in the latter while WWE is still loading the first match.

400 gets you a PC that can play games over 5 years old

I think hairyfeet's experience differs from yours. Search this discussion [slashdot.org] for hairyfeet.

Then there is RAM and Gaming RAM isn't that Cheap 20$ crap you play with.

What makes gaming RAM different?

and No Monitor

I thought this article was about the PlayStation 4, not the PlayStation Vita. Consoles that aren't handheld don't come with a monitor either, and consoles that are handheld don't work with Gaikai while away from a Wi-Fi signal.

Re:You can pick out a poorly engineered game (1)

medv4380 (1604309) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922141)

Gaming RAM is Supposed to be the higher end with a higher frequency and a lower timing latency but end up generating a lot more heat. Most people, and gamers, don't know or care what 9-9-9-24 DDR3 1333 2x2GB with no heat spreaders for 20$ vs 9-9-9-27 DDR3 1866 with heatspreaders for 30$ vs 9-9-9-24 DDR3 1866 with heat spreader and a fan for 60$. All they're looking for is it considered gaming ram and will it work with my system. You're POS econ model gets the cheep stuff, and as a result any game doing a memory intensive task gets bottle necked. It is only possible to design a game to work properly when you have a static target. The very nature of the Gaming PC caters to people who have money to blow. The only reason to go for the high end stuff is to buy some time so your system can actually work for a few years before the next forced upgrade. Any PC or Server build should always build the most economic model for the task it should be doing. But for gaming that's not possible. You've ether regulated yourself into the gutter of PC gaming or your spending money hand over fist.

Re:You can pick out a poorly engineered game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922583)

Man, since you've gone on a rant about the purity of RAM latency for games, would you like to consider these Monster cables for your 7.1 dolby surround system playing retro games? At 100$ it's a steal...

Re:You can pick out a poorly engineered game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922985)

"Gaming" RAM is a joke. It's a way to sucker clueless morons like you into paying more for the same. RAM isn't going to be a bottleneck when gaming unless you have too little of it.

Also:
Intel Core i5-2380P Quad-Core Processor 3.1 GHz 6 MB Cache LGA 1155 - $170
Foxconn H61S Intel H61 Mini ITX DDR3 1066 LGA 1155 Motherboard - $50
Corsair 8 GB DDR3 1600MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory - $35
EVGA GeForce GTX 650 1024MB GDDR5 - $110
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive - $80
Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced Mini-ITX Computer Case with USB 3.0 Ports and Long Video Card Support - $50
Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500w Power Supply - $40
---
Total: $535

I could knock $100 or more right off the top if I specced an AMD rig (AMD Athlon II X4 is $70), but then you might try to say that it wasn't a "real" gaming PC.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (3, Funny)

tompaulco (629533) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921681)

PCs have noisy fans

Any noisier than Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 fans?

I read it as he was talking about PC fanatics, but your answer still works.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921687)

PCs support USB gamepads.

PC game companies write their products for the lowest common denominator: keyboard and mouse. Gamepad support is an afterthought, and it often shows.

Not that I can blame them; even using a simple gamepad in Windows means mucking about with drivers.

Any noisier than Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 fans?

Often, yes. If nothing else, a standard desktop has more fans (CPU, GPU, PSU) than a console. Granted, my old 360 has more than one fan, but you'd never notice the quiet squirrelcage in the power brick unless you were looking for it, which brings me to my next point...

More home-theater-appropriate cases are available.

What you are referring to are essentially custom order items through specialty boutiques. Meanwhile, I can think of at least half a dozen retail shelves that have consoles on them within ten miles of where I sit.

When literally working "off the shelf," you're stuck with comparing consoles with general-purpose desktops, which are designed to be desktops.

PCs need to be replaced with a new model every 3-4 years.

Source?

ATI and nVidia.

There are exceptions of course. Why did the Nintendo DS replace the Game Boy Advance after about 3 1/2 years (second quarter 2001 to fourth quarter 2004)?

They didn't. The GBA was sold concurrently with the DS and DS Lite (note the timing of the GB micro).

Of course, if you want to use that standard to define "replacement," we can talk about the frequency with which versions of DirectX (and compatible GPUs) are similarly "replaced."

It would appear that the Modern UI-style Start Screen of Windows 8 actually makes it easier to launch games using a controller.

Setting aside for the moment that we're suddenly living in a world where the steps to play a game are more complicated than "Insert game, turn on," does the Windows 8 UI even accept a gamepad as input out of the box?

Daddy system; no Wii autostart; JoyToKey (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921957)

PC game companies write their products for the lowest common denominator: keyboard and mouse. Gamepad support is an afterthought, and it often shows.

Are you talking major developers or indie developers? And are you talking about games in mouse-heavy genres (FPS/RTS) or games in other genres?

even using a simple gamepad in Windows means mucking about with drivers.

How so? The drivers for both my Xbox 360 controller and my Logitech controller installed automatically when I plugged them into my PC's front USB ports.

What you are referring to are essentially custom order items through specialty boutiques. Meanwhile, I can think of at least half a dozen retail shelves that have consoles on them within ten miles of where I sit.

So your argument, as I understand it, is that products on brick-and-mortar shelves are inherently superior to mail-order products. What did I misunderstand?

The GBA was sold concurrently with the DS and DS Lite

And the PSOne was sold concurrently with the PS2. And the gaming PC was sold concurrently with homework-and-Facebook PCs with Intel GMA (Graphics My Ass) and with netbooks containing a Pentium 4-equivalent Atom CPU. It's called the daddy system [tvtropes.org] . An advantage of PC games is that many support scalable detail levels, which is like getting the PS2 and PS3 versions of a game in one box: when you upgrade your PC, your game will grow with you.

Setting aside for the moment that we're suddenly living in a world where the steps to play a game are more complicated than "Insert game, turn on,"

Wii has been more complicated than "insert game, turn on" since 2006: you have to use the remote and the Sensor Bar to activate the Disc Channel, even if your game uses GameCube controllers or the Wii Classic Controller.

does the Windows 8 UI even accept a gamepad as input out of the box?

I admit that Windows still requires a bit of tweaking for set-top use. but apparently there's an app for that [maximumpc.com] , more than one in fact [windows8core.com] . Console UI can't be customized at all.

Re:Daddy system; no Wii autostart; JoyToKey (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | about a year and a half ago | (#42923091)

PC game companies write their products for the lowest common denominator: keyboard and mouse. Gamepad support is an afterthought, and it often shows.

Are you talking major developers or indie developers? And are you talking about games in mouse-heavy genres (FPS/RTS) or games in other genres?

Since we're talking general-purpose gaming, I'm talking in general terms.

How so? The drivers for both my Xbox 360 controller and my Logitech controller installed automatically when I plugged them into my PC's front USB ports.

Getting all controller functionality working in all games generally requires user interaction in setting up a system tray app. Otherwise, your 360 controller triggers function as rudder pedals and your Logitech controller won't rumble (and will have the same "rudder" issues if you forget to flick the switch to DirectInput instead of XInput)

What you are referring to are essentially custom order items through specialty boutiques. Meanwhile, I can think of at least half a dozen retail shelves that have consoles on them within ten miles of where I sit.

So your argument, as I understand it, is that products on brick-and-mortar shelves are inherently superior to mail-order products. What did I misunderstand?

My argument is that you're not going to get all the benefits you keep listing (small footprint, quiet fans, etc.) with the $400 price point you cited earlier. I can wait two weeks and spend $1000 to have the PC you're describing, or I can spend $300 and have a console now.

An advantage of PC games is that many support scalable detail levels,

Complete with scalable price tag. And they don't scale at the same rate.

Meanwhile, the game publisher is expected to make sure that their products look acceptable at all possible scaling options (or at least the popular ones), rather than focusing on other issues.

when you upgrade your PC, your game will grow with you.

You assume perfect backwards compatibility with your old hardware and software. Some GPU manufacturers have a hard enough time not breaking compatibility with current games/DirectX versions/etc. between different driver revisions.

I admit that Windows still requires a bit of tweaking for set-top use. but apparently there's an app for that [maximumpc.com]

This would be described by the phrase "mucking about with drivers" that I used earlier.

Console UI can't be customized at all.

Aside from the fact that the 360 you were using in comparison can be set to boot directly to a game, time spent customizing is time spent not playing a game.

Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42923465)

Meanwhile, the game publisher is expected to make sure that their products look acceptable at all possible scaling options (or at least the popular ones), rather than focusing on other issues.

Is making sure that a product looks good on Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA any harder than making sure that a product looks good on Wii, Xbox 360, and PlayStation 3? Or navigating the developer qualification processes of three console makers?

Re:Daddy system; no Wii autostart; JoyToKey (1)

Pubstar (2525396) | about a year and a half ago | (#42923759)

Just going to throw this out there: My system is around $1300, but it was never built at this price. Its been a slow, steady stream of upgrades ($200-ish a year), and I have a beast of a system. Its overclocked pretty hard (3.6Ghz to 4.4Ghz) and is still whisper quiet ($55 Corsair H60 liquid cooling). The box is also set up next to the TV in the living room and its own 27" monitor. The footprint is rather large, but its still hidden well away. Almost all games that come out now have gamepad support (even FPS) right out of the box for XBox 360 controllers (its in DX11).

Just so that you know, the Xbox 360 next to my PC is considerably louder than my PC.

I also have a second PC set up in here (roommate's) that is pretty much build out of spare parts that I've upgraded from. Slapped in a $125 video card, runs most games at mid/mid-high settings at a smooth 60FPS.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921751)

Don't forget Steam offers a wealth of games at reasonable prices (1 cost for multi platform games, too); and that are many controllers that work fine most PC games, whether it be the Xbox controller, or logitech gamepags [logitech.com] , just to name a few.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921973)

Frankly, it just sounds like you're pushing an agenda. The fact is that consoles have a lot to offer. So do PCs. While I'm a die-hard life-long PC gamer and I build a glorious new rig every year or two (the video cards alone in my most recent rig -- 3 4gb 670s -- were $1,500), but I also enjoy games on the consoles. I wish PC gaming was bigger, more wide-spread, and more focused on than consoles. Totally. That's where my main interest is. But I don't have to convert everyone from their console to a PC and people can, frankly, have both.

The only agenda I'm pushing (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921997)

Frankly, it just sounds like you're pushing an agenda.

The only agenda I'm pushing is reducing the entry barrier to developing for a platform that has local multiplayer. PCs have games from small studios but local multiplayer is rare due to tradition. Consoles have local multiplayer but small studios with low budgets face cost-prohibitive overheads.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922315)

A gaming PC can cost less than $400. The PS3 was ridiculed for costing "five hundred and ninety-nine U.S. dollars" at launch.

Yes and it would run Bejeweled just fine, not sure about Crisis though. Also BD support and all that shit.

PCs support USB gamepads.

But the games besides console ports and multi-platform releases rarely support them properly.

Any noisier than Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 fans?

Don't know about Xbox but definitely noisier than PS3 especially the gaming rigs that can play anything.

Source?

Experience. Of course with PC you can also choose the other way and play all newer games on low details with AA and the rest of pretties turned off.

It would appear that the Modern UI-style Start Screen of Windows 8 actually makes it easier to launch games using a controller.

Yes it also makes all the other shit like os/sw/drivers maintenance a chore.

Smaller games (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922405)

But the games besides console ports and multi-platform releases rarely support [gamepads] properly.

That and smaller-scope indie games that probably would have been a multi-platform release had the developer been big enough to afford the organizational overhead of console game development. Since the announcement of Big Picture and the Steam box, those have been popping up on Steam lately.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922691)

It would appear that the Modern UI-style Start Screen of Windows 8 actually makes it easier to launch games using a controller. That could be why the Xbox 360 dashboard resembles Windows 8's Start Screen more than it resembles Windows 7's Start Menu.

Personally, I've found that it's most definitely not easier to control the XBox interface with the new interface. Until the latest update it was even difficult to tell which panel was active. The whole things seems like a compromise to try to make the interface work with Kinect, which it's fairly poor at as well.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921645)

No it's not, at least when you know what you are doing. initial expense is high, rest of them are not so bad.
No, but you can connect playstation controllers if you like.
No they dont, and with current technology they dont probably even need to be in same room with you
shit, i wont ever buy one
same
no you don't. if it works - you dont have to.
if your games work - you dont ever have to replace anything. and if you do - you get better performance boost and eye candy.
windows 7, linux, etc. i dont even speak about shitty console interface and controllers. i dont want sit on a couch when i play competitive games.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (1)

wild_quinine (998562) | about a year and a half ago | (#42923065)

- PCs need to be replaced with a new model every 3-4 years. Game console cycles last 5-7 years.

The rest of your points are bollocks as well, but this. Wow. This isn't just wrong, it's actively misinterpreting one of the most significant advantages of PCs.

It is not that you *must* replace your model every 3-4 years, the fact is that you *can* replace it every 3-4 years. (In practice you probably only need to think about replacing the video card, as a quad core bought in 2008/9 is just as fast today as it was then, and CPUs haven't been the bottleneck in the majority of games for quite a long time.)

Those PC games will scale to your hardware, and your 2008 graphics card will still produce better graphics at higher resolutions than either the PS3 or Xbox 360, it's just that a 2012/3 card will do even more - if you want to go there.

Because it's expensive to develop exclusively for the PC, and because the console market is more lucrative, the consoles have effectively been holding better graphics on the PC back for seven years. All PC owners get is higher resolution basically for free, and if we're very, very lucky some kind of texture pack.

Please note that the PS3 originally released in the same week as nVidia launched the 8800 series, the first DX10 cards. Sony made such a hoo-hah at the time about how the truly next gen experience could begin. But the truth was, it was already last generation at launch.

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (0)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921949)

That's not even a fair comparison. A high end video card is $600-$750. A console, on launch, will probably be less than that. And as a die-hard PC gamer (who also owns several of every console), I have no interest in putting together a $3,000 rig and sitting it next to my home theater so that all I can use it for is gaming. Also, there is a bit of a chasm between PC experiences and console experiences for a lot of games, due to developer and publisher focus on consoles and lack of enthusiasm about development for PC (see the recent Dead Space 3 for an example).

And, of course, these are things your average consumer are simply not going to do -- period.

High end video card (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921987)

A high end video card is $600-$750. A console, on launch, will probably be less than that.

Does this refer to a "high end video card" marketed for use by creative professionals and CAD engineers? We'll have to wait for the release of PS4's official specs to see whether or not it has a "high end video card" or just a midrange one.

Also, there is a bit of a chasm between PC experiences and console experiences for a lot of games, due to developer and publisher focus on consoles and lack of enthusiasm about development for PC

So for what platform should small developers develop games in genres that tend toward two to four gamepads rather than a separate mouse, keyboard, and monitor per player?

Re:Then why not just buy a PC? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922429)

Because then you can't sit huddled around in cramped quarters with your broke family, playing four player first-person shooters in low resolution postage stamp sized split-screen on gamepads.

Other genres exist (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922475)

broke family

Buying a whole LAN of gaming PCs and extra copies of each game for house guests is a luxury. I don't see how a family that doesn't do so is necessarily "broke" in a sense worthy of derision.

first-person shooters

Other genres exist. Would you rather require buying two to four PCs and two to four monitors to play, say, a fighting game or a vertically scrolling shoot-em-up?

postage stamp sized

One-fourth of a modern HDTV is probably bigger than the monitor you played the first two or three Quake games on.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (2, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921155)

Considering Sony's past history of screwing over paying customers with the XCP trojan, the OtherOs removal, and other evils, my guess is the extra horsepower is for DRM, spying, or other consumer-hostile purpose.

With their history, I don't understand why anybody would buy anything from Sony.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (2)

Knuckles (8964) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921183)

Right, and the graphics and CPU power available to games will be exactly the same as the PS3. I don't think so. Look, I dislike Sony just as much as you, but one can do that without making ridiculous claims.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921817)

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. It just isn't beneath them -- nothing is.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921287)

Because all the good japanese games are on Sony game consoles.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922027)

Sony sold 6.3 million PS3s in Japan in total, compared to worldwide sales of 70.2 million.

If they made a Japanese-only console they'd lose over 90% of their sales.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922023)

Considering Pretendo's past history of screwing over developers and consumers into exclusive contracts, censorship, outdated technology (cartridges on the Pretendo 64 when CDs were required for better gameplay) and other evils, my guess is the extra horsepower on the Pretendo Piss on U is for DRM, spying, or other consumer-hostile purpose.

Considering M$'s past history of screwing over developers and consumers into exclusive contracts by abusing their monopoly, security holes(Allowing the XCP trojan from Sony-Bony, hijacked hexbox live accounts), horrible quality (Red ring of death) and other evils, my guess is the extra horsepower on the Hexbox 720 will be for DRM, spying, or other consumer-hostile purpose.

With their histories, I don't understand why anybody would buy anything from Pretendo or M$. Like you said; fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. It just isn't beneath them -- nothing is. Best to stick with the FLOSS route when it comes to gaming rather than use solutions that use proprietary software then use hardware that uses drivers that are open-source rather than closed-source.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42923113)

OtherOS didn't affect any home users, Linux on the PS3 was DOA due to the lock hypervisor and no access to video hardware. It couldn't play back video any better than XMBC on the original xbox, and it was terrible as a desktop. Other than number crunching research boffins, the removal of otherOS was just an internet outrage.

The XCP torjan, again, affected no one, it was found, Sony sued. End of matter.

You are such an anti-sony dweeb, you're an embarrassment. Sony have many more anti-consumer practices, but you failed to list any. Get back to you MS noise box Mr. Zealot.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922225)

Maybe console gamers want hardware that is not several years behind current PC quality?

If they wanted that, they'd buy a PC.

Most gamers are quite satisfied with current-gen graphics. Sure, prettier is always welcome, but it's no longer a driving force in game sales anymore.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the increased popularity of so-called "retro-" games, where modern games intentionally mimic old-school graphics.

PC games might have an edge in textures, view-distance and polygon-count, but ultimately it's the gameplay that makes or breaks a game, and that generally will be the same regardless of the rendering capabilities of the platform. The /perceived/ difficulties (cost, maintenance, availability of titles, compatibility) of a running a PC outweigh any marginal advantages in eye-candy that a PC may have over its console brethren to many gamers.

Having said that, I'm posting this on Slashdot so it should be obvious where my sympathies lie. How anyone can play an FPS without a mouse and keyboard, I'll /never/ understand.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (1)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about a year and a half ago | (#42923131)

Maybe console gamers want hardware that is not several years behind current PC quality?

Maybe true console gamers don't give a fuck about PC games? Just a wild guess, considering they are console gamers after all. I, for one, have always been a console gamer and for the most part have never given a rat's ass about the PC side of things.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about a year and a half ago | (#42923159)

Yeah, I'm similar, the PC was only used for comparison of graphic power. You may not give a fuck about PC games, but most console gamers still want a somewhat contemporary machine.

Re: Sony: you are idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921029)

New console means new forms of DRM and other content restrictions. You can't just sit idly by while people are playing games on your old consoles. You need to find better ways to take their money and limit the value provided.

It's Sony's take on "supply and demand": we demand more money while we supply lesser services and poorer experiences.

Re: Sony: you are idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921305)

Indeed this is supply and demand. People are falling over themselves buying Sony's gaming products and it is only natural that they continue to increase prices and return less value.

Honestly, I applaud their efforts in employing technical measures to fight piracy. In this they are thinking beyond the next quarter's profits and attempting to cultivate an environment of locked down gaming, arguably a boon to many gamers in the long run. My only point of contention is when Sony start following the example set by the big American media companies and start to lobby for laws which undermine individual's basic rights and even here I place much more blame on the scummy bags of shit we call politicians, a group of spineless psychopaths second in aggregate evil only to the lawyers.

Re: Sony: you are idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921559)

arguably a boon to many gamers in the long run.

It's exactly the opposite. Are you an idiot?

Re: Sony: you are idiots (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921993)

DRM only affects and impacts paying customers and publishers are not concerned with piracy. It's the excuse they use, but what they really are concerned with is people exercising their first-sale rights.

Three reasons to sell a game for a new console (2)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921093)

For that there is no need for releasing a PS4, they could use current PS3 hardware

Likewise, for a game like Lumines in 2005, there wasn't much need for releasing it on PSP when it could have been easily done on the existing Game Boy Advance. In fact, three different developers ended up releasing three different fan-made ports: Gleam, Luminesweeper, and Luminate.

There are three reasons to sell a game for a new console rather than the old:

  • The old console is no longer manufactured. This is the case, for example, for PlayStation 2.
  • The console maker has bribed the developer to make the game exclusive to the new console.
  • The game is too small in scope for the previous console's distribution method. This might be the case for things like flOw, because the PS2 had no download store, and it's surely the case for all the Xbox Live Indie Games.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921101)

Actually, you are clearly the idiot. This streaming feature is but 1 feature of the system. It will have beefed up off the shelf pc components, still nothing compared to a 3 grand pc rig of course, and will still have optical bluray based games.

For christ sake they have been talking about the new plans for disk based DRM to be implemented on the ps4 before they even released the specs of the device (leaked)

The only thing that makes no sense is why someone obviously smart enough to read slashdot would be so stupid.

Streaming games, maybe current psn titles, would work for a lot of users, anything beyond cute little time wasters simply won't work for 80% of the users, it's a dead end for now.

Re:Sony: you are idiots (2)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921929)

I'm sorry, but your comment makes absolutely no sense. Are you saying that console gaming should not be improved? That they shouldn't have more power, better graphics, and more features? What does decoding h264 have to do with how powerful the PS4 is going to be? It's like complaining that my PC is too powerful "just to stream video". Sure, maybe it is just to stream video. But how about everything else I do with it? How about everything else you do with the PS4? You know, like playing non streaming games? (Especially since OnLive and GaiKai have very unsatisfactory experiences due to input/response lag and lower graphic fidelity).

Re:Sony: you are idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922339)

what massive computational power? where is that mentioned anywhere? we've seen specs for the next xbox, and it's rumored the ps4 will be very similar. both will be roughly equivalent to a decent gaming pc today.

then there's gaikai, which sony will use to stream older games. that way they won't need to do backward compatibility in hardware. this sounds GREAT to me.

so ... what are you taking about ?

Pointless (2)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about a year and a half ago | (#42920965)

None of those old single player games were designed for lag and the vast majority of people just don't have the net connection for it. There's a reason online streaming of games went no where, it sucks.

Design for lag (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921011)

None of those old single player games were designed for lag

Games with a slower pace, such as anything that's not a bunny-hopping FPS or clickfest RTS, could probably be adapted to 100 ms control lag. In fact, rhythm games have had explicit lag settings in one form or another since Dance Dance Revolution Konamix on the original PlayStation to account for upscaler lag in the monitor.

Re:Design for lag (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921455)

100 Ms?? Much of the world dreams of getting such latency. In Asus many online services run at 200+. Game streaming sucks balls at the best of times. I hope Sony fails hard on this.

ASUS or Aus? (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921517)

In Asus many online services run at 200+.

I haven't had problems with ASUS [wikipedia.org] products. What problems did you have? Or if by "Asus" you meant "Aus" as in Australia, try playing games published by Australian companies on Australian servers.

An excuse to make people buy games again (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921001)

If this is how they implement backwards compatibility what happens to people's existing catalog of PS1, 2, and 3 games? Do they have to pay again for the right to stream the games they already bought? This sounds like a wonderful idea to rip off consumers. (also Oxford comma forever)

Re:An excuse to make people buy games again (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921031)

Assuming that the PlayStation 4 has an optical drive of some sort, which it'll have to have anyway to reach gamers in rural areas without cable or fiber, it can still read PS1, PS2, and PS3 discs if only to hash their TOC and directory tracks.

Re:An excuse to make people buy games again (2)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922025)

Media companies suckered/forced people into buying music all over again on 8-track to replace their records. Then again, on cassette. Then again on CD. Then again, digitally. Even though all you really owned for those things was a license to listen to the music and nothing else. Everyone was happy to see digital distribution of everything, because now there is finally a format of distribution that won't need to be replaced!. (But you still only own a license to enjoy the content for as long as they want to allow you to).

The truth, I suspect, is that Microsoft and Sony will probably just tell you that you have to buy your content all over again on the new platforms. They might even claim "well, gosh, it requires so much money to make those old XBLA/PSN games work on the new system, so we have to charge you for them again!". Or they might not even make your digital games playable at all on the new systems (because, you know, making 2013 hardware capable of emulating almost decade-old software is . .. I don't know -- impossible or something).

Tachyons! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921037)

Tachyons : The Returnening.

These things are just seriously not useful for any game that requires twitch or even fast reactions.
Other games, sure, fine.

Of course, MP servers for those types of games would likely be killed to make space for new games, so local play (if it even exists) would be the only option, or self-hosted servers (again, if it even exists).
I will still never know why these stupid companies won't let you rent a server with actual cash, they'd make quite a bit of money from it.

Sequel revenue > server rental revenue (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921061)

I will still never know why these stupid companies won't let you rent a server with actual cash, they'd make quite a bit of money from it.

Because the amount of cash that one would be willing to pay to rent a server wouldn't be as big as the amount of cash if every player would buy the game's sequel.

Re:Sequel revenue server rental revenue (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921197)

Because the amount of cash that one would be willing to pay to rent a server wouldn't be as big as the amount of cash if every player would buy the game's sequel.

Wow... why would one need to rent a server? Doesn't anyone remember the golden age of gaming when online games came with server software pre-installed? For instance, most of the Quake servers were on gamers' machines. Pay for running a server? Maybe I'm just old but that sounds insane to me.

I guess in this age of corporate hypergreed we're not likely to see gamers running their own servers again. They're going to extract every pound of flesh from customers as they can. People just bend over and take it these days. Personally, I miss computer gaming but I just can't stomach today's corporate greed.

Failure to deploy IPv6 (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921359)

Doesn't anyone remember the golden age of gaming when online games came with server software pre-installed? For instance, most of the Quake servers were on gamers' machines.

The Quake 1 era was before the era of a half-dozen or more devices behind a NAT.

Pay for running a server? Maybe I'm just old but that sounds insane to me.

Then explain why Internet hosting companies don't give a VPS away for free.

I guess in this age of corporate hypergreed we're not likely to see gamers running their own servers again.

It's not just game publishers' hypergreed as much as the combination of ISPs' hypergreed and ISPs' failure to deploy IPv6 to home users in a timely manner.

Re:Sequel revenue server rental revenue (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922045)

A lot of console games do not have servers hosted by the developer/publisher and they don't allow users to host the games on their own consoles. Or, rather, I should rephrase that -- the developer/publisher does host servers for the games -- but players have to pay a monthly fee to rent and run them. This is happening more often on PCs, too.

In other words, they no longer give you the facilities to simply install and run your own servers. And, in many cases, to even rent servers from a third party. And they don't provide their own community servers for free. They offload the cost of running those servers to players and force them to pay for it.

I'm serious (2, Insightful)

Mike Frett (2811077) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921087)

Serious question, am I the only one that sees the end coming for these big name Consoles? I don't know much about what Nintendo is doing, but Sony and Microsoft seem to be trying to, almost Rape people.

No used games, Massive DRM, Streaming, Lock-ins, Insane prices etc. These types of things are Bad, if they continue adding things that are Consumer unfriendly, I just can't see a future for these Companies.

You got these Mini-Consoles popping up now, almost as if they are the next evolution in Consoles and alternatives for people tired of the Big Boys behavior. You guys can't see all of this happening? It's quite clear to me.

Re:I'm serious (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921153)

You got these Mini-Consoles popping up now

And if none of these mini-consoles happen to catch on, Sony and Nintendo still win. Case in point: None of the GP2X series consoles caught on among the general public, Pandora was far too delayed to catch on, and the nD appears to have been canceled.

Re:I'm serious (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921215)

If Ouya (for example) comes out on time and on budget, that will differentiate it from your other examples — perhaps significantly enough to permit it to sell.

Fail even if on time and on budget (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921451)

True, the Pandora and nD failed to "come[] out on time and on budget". The original GP2X, GP2X Wiz, and GP2X Caanoo failed to gain professional developer support in the North American market despite "com[ing] out on time and on budget". What's to say Ouya won't fail just like GP2X?

Re:Fail even if on time and on budget (1)

BanHammor (2587175) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922513)

Developer support for Ouya is not extreme, but quite nice - it's pretty much well-done Android, so there's little effort to port.

Re:I'm serious (1)

Tagged_84 (1144281) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921263)

I take it you haven't seen the January sales figures of the WiiU, win seems to be the exact opposite of Nintendo's strategy.

Re:I'm serious (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921233)

I wouldn't be surprised at the rate the larger companies have been toward consume unfriendliness (Sony and Microsoft in particular) flat out went always online, (IE you have to be connected to play anything) drm with the new consoles, which will be fun if connectivity or the server dies.

Re:I'm serious (1)

tompaulco (629533) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921731)

I have already sworn off one of my favorite games of all times (simcity) due to "always online", and I'm not afraid to swear off a whole console or all consoles if they do "always online".

copy-protection (3, Interesting)

Sarin (112173) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921173)

they could use it for streaming the menus of certain games, so an essential part of the game is ran on their servers while the game itself resides on the console.

Re:copy-protection (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921285)

dont give 'em any ideas.. although the one time use serials and linking serials to online accounts or consoles is bad enough, drm with resale and rental killing power.

Re:copy-protection (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922823)

But no one is thinking of the consumers, as usual. I absolutely hate the 'here's your product you bought, but we're just going to hang on to this integral piece...come and see us if you need it thought!' This will drive costs way way up for Sony who now has to put up with this, and will have to suffer the lawsuits when they decide 'Well, it's time for the next Madden, so shut down the old one!' and suddenly no one can play the old one. This translates into a price hike for the consumers, because we all so much love to pay more for less product...it's the American way, honestly, getting people to pay more for less because their choice is either your way or the highway.

Streaming only parts (2)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921249)

I very much suspect they plan to stream only parts of the game. You'd be missing an integral part (not only data as textures, but computations), which would make a pretty solid copy protection.

I doubt they scream graphics, as you notice the lag. But I very much could assume they stream the AI, background sounds (music), cutscenes or generally execute scrips (quest progression etc) on a server. That is easily queueable and you'd not notice some lag of 100 ms.

Re:Streaming only parts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921393)

You're almost certainly right with regards to the anti-piracy angle.

However it's a big "fuck you" to people with limited or no internet access. If they force this into every game to replace DRM, Sony dies a horrible death at the hands of unreliable internet connections.

Rural could be an edge case not worth serving (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921473)

If what you say is true, why haven't MMORPGs already "die[d] a horrible death at the hands of unreliable internet connections"? I'm guessing advocates of always-on DRM would assume that the rural market is an edge case, and the marginal earnings from selling more new copies because infringing copies and used copies won't work outweighs the marginal earnings from serving the rural market. Even handheld games are starting to assume always-on due to the proliferation of cellular data plans.

Re:Rural could be an edge case not worth serving (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921991)

I live in a third world country. Internet probably won't be reliable here in my lifetime.

Markets like China, India and Brazil are growing rapidly, unlike the Western gaming audience. Telling half the world that they can't buy your console - the half that are getting rich enough to consider their first console purchase - seems like a bone-headed move that will drive potential customers to MS and Nintendo.

Developing countries also an edge case (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922041)

Developers need to pay the bills, and the cost of labor tends to run higher in the countries where major developers are located. This means the developers have to charge more. Customers in the BRIC markets [wikipedia.org] have less disposable income, when converted to U.S. dollars, than customers in G7 countries. This is because their currencies have a lower value, in turn due to a history of producing fewer exportable goods [wikipedia.org] . As of right now, I'm guessing advocates of always-on DRM would assume that the BRIC market is an edge case, and the marginal earnings from selling more new copies to G7 countries outweighs the marginal earnings from serving the BRIC market. Perhaps what the industry needs is a brazillion more Brazilian game developers exporting their games to the G7 to even the trade balance.

Re:Developing countries also an edge case (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922207)

You make good points about the development costs of games. Certainly developers can and will make whatever decisions maximize their profit for any individual game.

Console sales are a slightly different beast, however. They take place over maybe 7 years, during which time currency fluctuations and booms/recessions can drastically change the world market. Selling more consoles and becoming the "number 1" console worldwide carries huge advantages, like exclusive games and economies of scale for manufacturing.

If Sony decide to make gaming difficult/impossible for anyone without a rock-steady broadband connection, they automatically forfeit a huge percentage of potential customers. My guess is that streaming content would be optional for developers rather than mandatory - but many developers will opt in. The resulting shutout would hurt Sony's reputation with customers far more than the developers. After all, it was Sony that opened this particular door and made streaming console games possible.

Re:Streaming only parts (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921461)

We're not yet ready for a video stream only games, but beyond that you could stream everything. Just keep the game engine running locally and enough stuff cached in memory. Even today's consoles pull data constantly from optical disc, which has quite big latency times.

72 Mbps and no monthly cap (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921531)

Even today's consoles pull data constantly from optical disc, which has quite big latency times.

The difference here is that a Blu-ray Disc has 72 Mbps download speed and no monthly cap. Satellite Internet has a 10 GB per month cap (source: exede.com), which isn't even enough to transfer a 25 GB layer of a Blu-ray Disc in one month.

Local Multiplayer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921377)

There is no word yet regarding the features of the games being streamed, including whether or not they will support online or local multiplayer.

The fuckers will carry on doing everything in their power to kill local multiplayer.

All my favorite experiences with console gaming involved getting together with groups of friends or family and playing a game IN THE SAME ROOM. Many great nights were had. Loads of PS1 and PS2 games had 2,4 and even 8 simultaneous players. Now you are lucky to find a split-screen game, never mind a 4 player version - which would have been enormous fun now that we have our 1080 big TVs.

Online multiplayer is NOT a superior replacement for local multiplayer. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Kill or just abandon? (2)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921503)

The fuckers will carry on doing everything in their power to kill local multiplayer.

How can the big game studios "kill" local multiplayer? They can abandon it in their own titles [cracked.com] , but that would just leave the genres associated with local multiplayer to indie developers, and connecting a gaming PC, Steam box, or Ouya console to a TV would become a more attractive option.

Online multiplayer is NOT a superior replacement for local multiplayer. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

For people who live alone or with a non-gamer and can never find the time to schedule play dates, weaknesses outnumber strengths. Online multiplayer is the only way to play multiplayer with pickup groups of strangers. For genres where each player really needs his own view and pointing device, such as RTS, weaknesses outnumber strengths. And for game types that depend on hiding information from your opponents, such as FPS where both players aren't on the same team, weaknesses outnumber strengths.

Re:Kill or just abandon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922099)

Well, exactly - the big game studios ARE abandoning it in their own titles. It isn't like there's some big militant group of gamers demanding local multiplayer, so it will just get forgotten about in the coming years.

Latency online will never go away - and lots of titles will become less fun and more frustrating as a consequence.

Don't forget why this has come about - developers believe they will sell more copies of a game if they abandon local multiplayer and force everyone online. It isn't happening because of technological progress, it's happening because of greed.

Greed, deadlines, and genre (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922365)

Don't forget why this has come about - developers believe they will sell more copies of a game if they abandon local multiplayer and force everyone online.

It could be because of greed; if so, David Wong of Cracked agrees with you [cracked.com] . But it could also be because of deadlines. There might not be enough time before release to optimize the renderer for two to four split-screen views when the engine is having trouble handling one. But good luck getting a fighting game like Street Fighter series or Mortal Kombat series or Smash Bros. series or whatever they're playing nowadays to require a separate copy of the game per player. In general, games that put both players in a single view instead of splitting the screen are more likely to keep local multiplayer.

Is this a posible cross-platform solution? (1)

some old guy (674482) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921399)

Sony screwed the pooch on their best franchise mark, EverQuest, with a lame PS2 version and no PS3 capability for Everquest II.

With the 3rd (4th?) redevelopment of EverQuest Next in the wings, I wonder if this is supposed to somehow enable cross-platform functionality with the PS4 for EQ and other MMO's.

Or is that to much vision to ask of SOE?

Attention spelling nazis: (1)

some old guy (674482) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921433)

I know, I know. It is early and I have a hangover.

quality? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921407)

"not high enough quality for blockbuster games"

God Of War 3 ran at native 720p. That was a blockbuster game if I ever played one.

Parent poster, please stop talking.

Re: quality? (1)

dmfinn (2840625) | about a year and a half ago | (#42921925)

GOW III had the ability to upscale to 1080p, and may I also remind you that SCE Santa Monica's announcement of native 720p brought major criticism.

Re: quality? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42922473)

Upscaling != running at 1080p

OMFG! The LAG!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42921535)

Jesus Christ the lag is already so bad as to make these things unplayable. Now they plan to stream games, in HD no less!

I'm no hardcore gamer, but here's what I want:

1. Games that don't lag.

2. Games that are not reliant on online only.

3. Online games that are not reliant on vendor servers, so that when EA loses interest my games does not evaporate.

4. Games that don't promise extreme realism and graphics, yet take 5 HEADSHOTS to bring down an opponent.

Now I realize that these are all issues for the game developer to deal with, not the hardware, but that's what I want.

On the hardware side:

1. I want some loading speed so I don't have to wait 60 seconds for every new game or scene to load.

2. Sony updates SUCK! Every time I turn the console on, there is another update that takes half a freaking hour to download and install, won't let you proceed without installing, and significantly changes the nature of the console. New store, new social "features" remove features like alternative OSes, block mods... Shove that SHIT!

3. I want a quiet console. I don't want to hear the fan howling because the game is playing HD cut scenes. Build in adequate passive cooling and keep the fan quiet!

4. Don't make me feel like everything I do, even just watching a Blu-Ray movie is under review and scrutiny. Give me back my privacy!

Beware PS1, PS2 (PS3) backwards compatibility (1)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about a year and a half ago | (#42922391)

I bought my PS3 for $600+ (U.S.) it came bundled with the game
"Metal Gear Solid 4" 6 actions to shoot POS.

I had no use for the PS3 as I had gone to the PC for the CoD series but
it was the last version to be backwards compatible and I have a lot of PS1, 2 games.

My PC went down (had to replace the mother board) so I replayed my Ratchet and Clank
"Up your Arsenal". When you break crates nuts and bolt fly towards Ratchet; a lot of
crates and the PS3 emulator couldn't keep up with the graphics.

I ended up repurchasing all 3 of the PS2 versions of Ratchet and Clank on one CD (10Th anniversary edition or such.)
While very inexpensive by itself that game CD cost me hundreds of bucks ($, £, mula) everything considered.

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