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Lots of Changes for Intel Graphics Coming in Linux 3.9

Unknown Lamer posted about a year and a half ago | from the crush-all-insects dept.

Intel 102

With the Linux 3.8 merge over, the Intel Linux graphics developers are looking toward 3.9. From a weblog entry by one of them: "Let's first look at bit at the drm core changes: The headline item this time around is the reworked kernel modeset locking. Finally the kernel doesn't stall for a few frames while probing outputs in the background! ... For general robustness of our GEM implementation we've clarified the various gpu reset state transitions. This should prevent applications from crashing while a gpu reset is going on due to the kernel leaking that transitory state to userspace. Ville Syrjälä also started to fix up our handling of pageflips across gpu hangs so that compositors no longer get stuck after a reset. Unfortunately not all of his patches made it into 3.9. Somewhat related is Mika Kuoppala's work to fix bugs across the seqnqo wrap-around. And to make sure that those bugs won't pop up again he also added some testing infrastructure. " The thing I am most looking forward to is the gen4 relocation regression finally being fixed. No more GPU hangs when under heavy I/O load (the bane of my existence for a while now). The bug report is a good read if you think hunting for a tricky bug is fun.

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3.8 has been released (5, Informative)

Lennie (16154) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940561)

The merge for 3.8 isn't just over, it has already been released.

Re:3.8 has been released (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940593)

From the submissions log, I'm guessing that story will be posted very soon...

can I buy an intel video card yet? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940573)

Currently, when I look in store I really only see one vendor.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (3)

Tumbleweed (3706) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940733)

Currently, when I look in store I really only see one vendor.

I hope you mean two vendors: AMD and Nvidia. Many motherboards have onboard video by Intel. So, there ya go.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (-1, Troll)

Kawahee (901497) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940927)

I hope you mean two vendors: AMD and Nvidia.

I only see Nvidia, by choice. If I were to buy an AMD card I'd have to install AMD Crapalyst Craptrol Manager or whatever unstable driver package they've come out this time in addition to suffering through frame latency spikes.

Many motherboards have onboard video by Intel

AC said "Intel video card". So while your statement is true, it's not relevant to what the AC was talking about.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941085)

And I only see AMD/ATI by choice because I know with an nVidia graphics chip there is no hope of an open source driver coming from then. Guess we both are voting with our wallets. Your vote is for "please me now", my vote is for "please me forever".

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (5, Interesting)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941227)

I hate to say it but Nvidia is making it happen now. They've managed to make installing graphics drivers totally painless. Hell it's easier than Windows! I'd love an open source driver that works but unfortunately I can choose AMD and have shitty graphics speed or I can fly with Nvidia. My religion just isn't strong enough.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

EzInKy (115248) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941549)

Guess I'm "third party" then, my concious makes me vote my concious. Perhaps there is real world parallel would could point to?

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42943467)

Your conscience is conscious but your spelling ... not so much

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942651)

I hate to say it but Nvidia is making it happen now. They've managed to make installing graphics drivers totally painless.

You're obviously joking. Not only is their driver pain to install, but in the end you find it doesn't support typical setups.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (2)

lordbeejee (732882) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942951)

I just go to software sources and select in the additional drivers tab whether I want the old, current or experimental drivers and video updates are transparant from that point. Since switching my gaming machine to experimental drivers (beta nvidia i think) I didn't have any problems, drivers are always latest beta. The machines at work just run the default nvidia ubuntu driver but they are all nvidia ion based, the most work they do in 3d is google earth, desktop accell is not that hard. :)

I guess the ease of install is probably more Ubuntu than nvidia (don't know if other distro's have it this easy).
Are there many distro's that still require manual installation of the nv driver?

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

TheSunborn (68004) | about a year and a half ago | (#42944673)

I just do a sudo yum install xorg-x11-drv-nvidia to get the drivers. Not that difficult, but there is a gui to select the nvidia binary package, if you prefer that kind of thing.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940981)

Many motherboards have onboard video by Intel

All Socket 1155 boards have on board video because it's integrated into the CPU.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

washu_k (1628007) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941411)

Nope. P67 boards do not support the onboard video of any CPUs, so effectively it's not there. There are also the P versions of some 1155 CPUs that have no onboard video at all.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (4, Informative)

petermgreen (876956) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940763)

can I buy an intel video card yet?

Intel briefly sold a discrete gpu back in the early days of agp but it was a failure in the market and since then they seem to have decided to sell their GPU techology as an integrated component of their platform (previously in the northbridge, now in the CPU).

Currently, when I look in store I really only see one vendor.

Your stores must suck, both NVIDIA and ATI are readilly available round here.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

Kjella (173770) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940891)

Your stores must suck, both NVIDIA and ATI are readilly available round here.

If they're still trying to sell off 2010 inventory I'd say pot, meet kettle - you might want to check out the new AMD cards.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942301)

If they're still trying to sell off 2010 inventory I'd say pot, meet kettle - you might want to check out the new AMD cards.

Why would I want to buy a new AMD card after the bullshit they pulled on the Linux driver support on models below HD5000? So my HD3450 or let's even say an HD4*(highest model) is now a bastard child of AMD. So now I should check out the new cards? Yeah. I'll make sure to get a new ATI card to run in Linux to have the driver support crap out after two years. Fuck you and fuck AMD.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942753)

That HD3450 was released FIVE years ago. Not two. You have some very unrealistic expectations of support, especially since the reason the old drivers don't work is because the Linux kernel ABI is changed to stop them working, deliberately. Use the open source Radeon drivers instead, they're pretty stable and decent these days.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942815)

Nouveau drivers sucks

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

makomk (752139) | about a year and a half ago | (#42943101)

And NVidia still support cards that are much older than that in their closed source Linux drivers, plus open source support for their cards seems to be coming along much better than support for AMD cards right now. Also, some of the GPUs that AMD dropped support for were still being sold in new machines - particularly laptops - when they abandoned them.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42949607)

The Kernel ABI doesn't change often, but when it does you have two years warning.[1]
The Xorg ABI on the other hand changes with (almost) every release, but Xorg only releases once a year.[2]

1. https://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/ABI/README;h=10069828568b4e6d6b698e99c3aaccfe16128e12;hb=HEAD
2. http://www.x.org/wiki/XorgModuleABIVersions

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (2)

Guppy (12314) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941977)

Intel briefly sold a discrete gpu back in the early days of agp but it was a failure in the market and since then they seem to have decided to sell their GPU techology as an integrated component of their platform (previously in the northbridge, now in the CPU).

That was the i740 [wikipedia.org] , and I think there's one buried in the back of my closet somewhere (a Real3D Starfighter card). The 3D image quality was quite good, and drivers were reasonably stable (at least by the time I bought mine). However, in terms of FPS, it was outclassed before it even hit the market.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

citizenr (871508) | about a year and a half ago | (#42943037)

naaa, it was comparable to Riva 128 in Quake 2.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about a year and a half ago | (#42944947)

they seem to have decided to sell their GPU techology as an integrated component

Rumor has it that they did a patent cross-licensing deal with nVidia and part of the deal was that they'd stay out of the component market. Much to the chagrin of everybody who would prefer a low-wattage graphics card.

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

Type44Q (1233630) | about a year and a half ago | (#42946171)

Intel briefly sold a discrete gpu back in the early days of agp

The starfighter with that i740 chip on it? That was a videocard?! :p

Re:can I buy an intel video card yet? (1)

armanox (826486) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941395)

If you really want one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel740 [wikipedia.org] . Predecessor to the i810 graphics. Matrox is still out there too.

If intel went into discrete graphics (3, Interesting)

Duncan J Murray (1678632) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940597)

I think they'd take over the linux graphics-card market. Maybe not much of a market now, but potentially could be big enough to justify doing it.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940639)

hardly.. while far better than it's been, intel video doesn't hold a candle to other offerings..

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

elfprince13 (1521333) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940773)

Sure, but how much of that is a matter of R&D priorities?

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941619)

Why the hell would excuses about R&D priorities matter to the end user?

You might as well of just held up a sign declaring your inner fanboy.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

elfprince13 (1521333) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942119)

It wouldn't matter to the end user. But if "Intel went into discrete graphics" it would likely signal a change in R&D priorities, and assuming that they would stay behind in that market seems foolish given the enormous amount of brain power they employ and the obvious bias in their current spending.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

symbolset (646467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942053)

Intel sells server chips into the HPC market. These guys can run LINPACK on a TI99, and would if it gave good metrics per watt and dollar. Intel has a corporate culture to protect their server CPU margins by not "cannibalizing" it with alternatives that cost less and do more. Same on desktop.

Their problem is that if they won't eat the slow-moving members of their tribe, there's another tribe who will.

Intel has a cabinet where a whole bunch of innovation is stored up against a firm competitor. Now might be a good time to pry it open.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940647)

Not unless they dramatically increase performance. Many servers of course don't need much if any graphics, but a workstation or gaming box (think Steam for Linux) want more power than their current technologies can deliver.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (2)

microbox (704317) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940709)

Many servers of course don't need much if any graphics,

People do scientific calculations on servers with lots of gpus.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

cheater512 (783349) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940967)

Erm that would involve using a lot of graphics horse power.....which Intel doesn't have.
That was the GP's entire point.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

symbolset (646467) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942277)

Intel has it. They're just not selling it to you. They have to figure out how to prevent us from running webserver VMs on this hardware before they release it. Unfortunately for them it's a lost cause. The people making these decisions really don't understand the mechanics of the situation, or how clever software can extract the utility of a GPU and deliver it to a cpu. Intel is now run by business geeks who really don't understand the tech. From here the end is clear.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942409)

Only if it's something that doesn't require more memory than you can conveniently shovel into the GPU. It's the same reason why I couldn't use a cluster of playstations.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

ssam (2723487) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942491)

intel have a very good contender for that specific market. the xeon phi.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

WilyCoder (736280) | about a year and a half ago | (#42946085)

xeon phi, the bastard child of larrabee? lol....

Its too specific a piece of hardware, the code isnt portable to ANYTHING. stick to gpgpu with OpenCL....

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

ssam (2723487) | about a year ago | (#42960575)

really? as I understand it can run openCL or openMP or MPI or a bunch of other standards.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942759)

Many servers of course don't need much if any graphics,

People do scientific calculations on servers with lots of gpus.

For Intel, wouldn't that be one of the case uses for the Itanium?

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940649)

First, they would have to demonstrate more graphics aptitude than they have to date... Not all of us will accept inferior performance to get an untainted kernel.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940917)

True, but still there are plenty of who would prefer an untainted kernel to superior graphics. If Intel doesn't believe it is a profitable market perhaps there is a third party willing to give it a shot? Personally I've grown quite tired of waiting for AMD/ATI to release a completely open source hardware solution.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942091)

"True, but still there are plenty of who would prefer an untainted kernel to superior graphics."

we call them morons, why would one cripple their computer, a suposed tool to get things done to hold them selves higher in the morality of a fucking driver is beyond me, I have shit to get done, not be political with my tools.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

vyvepe (809573) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942821)

we call them morons, why would one cripple their computer, a suposed tool to get things done to hold them selves higher in the morality of a fucking driver is beyond me, I have shit to get done, not be political with my tools.

Or they are willing to suffer a bit now in an attempt to create a new market segment for open drivers. You could call them investors instead of morons. Also there are issues with reporting bugs when your kernel is tainted. This can be critical for some people. Maybe you can try to educate yourself about their motivation before calling them "morons".

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42944695)

If I'm talking about a server, or a netbook, I could give a crap. Intel graphics are fine, and in fact I far prefer them for the same reasons (you? others?) do. But if we're talking about a desktop, or any kind of powerful portable, intel just doesn't cut it. It falls down in too many ways. I am more than willing, however, to give them my money if they can get some real performance going. I am not concerned about it being the best, either. I simply want it to provide a good price:performance ratio, and I don't feel it does that yet.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940999)

I need Tux Racer and Counter-Strike 1.6 running at 500 FPS at all times!

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941127)

You may be behind the times when it comes to gaming. That doesn't mean that the rest of us choose to be similarly handicapped.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941825)

Yeah, I'm way behind the times. You have like 3 Valve games, Crusader Kings 2, and then a bunch of indie games that range from mediocre to terrible. Almost all of which have been available for years on both Windows and OS X.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42943909)

Yeah, I'm way behind the times. You have like 3 Valve games, Crusader Kings 2, and then a bunch of indie games that range from mediocre to terrible. Almost all of which have been available for years on both Windows and OS X.

Not only are there applications for 3d graphics other than games, but I can also run Windows games, either under Wine or VMware, which has a D3D to OpenGL layer which actually works, unlike the one in Virtualbox...

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940757)

they used to be, and at the time you would pay as much for an intel video card as a older model nvidia, which would still stomp the shit out of it

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

smash (1351) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941707)

Why would intel go to "discrete" graphics when they could just build the same tech into their CPU and take advantage of local cache, not need to go over the PCI bus, etc?

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942073)

what century are you living in?

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

smash (1351) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942419)

What century are YOU living in? Integrated GPUs have come a long way and are improving faster than software requirements are advancing.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about a year and a half ago | (#42944917)

the century where video cards are not on the PCI bus

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

vilanye (1906708) | about a year and a half ago | (#42974911)

PCI-express is still slower than it would be if video were integrated into the CPU so his point is valid even if his idea is likely unworkable.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942343)

Why would intel go to "discrete" graphics when they could just build the same tech into their CPU and take advantage of local cache, not need to go over the PCI bus, etc?

Because that would be retarded. The PCI-Express bus is not a limiting factor for any current card I'm aware of, while local RAM is dog-slow compared to dedicated video RAM, and a mid-range discrete graphics card takes twice as much power as a current mid to high-end Intel CPU.

We'd be back to the days of the space-heater P4s, only worse, trying to get 200W of heat out of a CPU when it's running games.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

smash (1351) | about a year and a half ago | (#42942413)

Easily surmountable problems. Intel slap some uber fast cache memory right next to the CPU for direct access to the CPU/GPU cores. I'm not saying they will necessarily compete at the uber high end, but the uber high end is depserately looking for an actual market to sell to these days - the software is trailing.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942603)

I don't care about the über-high-end either, I have a GTX 660 after all. IANAEE but I guess it would take more than a little cache to reach even that level of graphics horsepower. That said, unless physics gets in the way we'll see it some day.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942663)

There's a reason mid to high-end graphics cards have 192-256 bit memory buses with >100GB/s of memory bandwidth. A 10MB cache won't help when you're using 1GB of textures in every frame.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

PhrstBrn (751463) | about a year and a half ago | (#42943325)

Getting into discrete graphics they way you're thinking is a waste of money. Graphics cards are going the way of the dodo bird. The current trend is moving everything is moving onto the CPU. Onboard graphics has already cannibalized the low end graphics market, and is starting to cannibalize the mid-range. It's only a matter of time before the onboard tech catches up to the discrete tech.

For the HPC market, Intel already has their MIC processors, latest being the Xeon Phi [wikipedia.org] . The only market they're not competing right now in is the high-end gaming and high end graphics. It's only a matter of time before integrated is "good enough" for high end gaming and they add more features to their Phi processors to compete in the high end graphics market.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42943347)

Uh, no. For all the reasons listed above.

Graphics are only limited right now because most games are built for today's consoles that are about as powerful as a ten year old PC. As soon as the next generation of consoles appear the integrated graphics hardware will be just as outdated as a modern console.

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | about a year and a half ago | (#42945333)

I think they'd take over the linux graphics-card market. Maybe not much of a market now, but potentially could be big enough to justify doing it.

Why? To gain what, an extra % of marketshare?

Intel's already the largest GPU vendor out there by quantity. With very little exception, if you have an Intel CPU, you probably have Intel graphics coming along for the ride - companies like ATi^H^H^HAMD and nVidia are going after the leftovers.

Intel's gotten there by being good enough to most people - their GPUs are adequate (Ivy Bridge is pretty decent) for basically what people buy PCs for these days. PC gaming is huge, but the games that demand the big GPU powers aren't - most of the PC gaming market goes to the smaller "indies" where having a fast GPU is less important (if it's required at all).

Re:If intel went into discrete graphics (1)

Type44Q (1233630) | about a year and a half ago | (#42946363)

companies like ATi^H^H^HAMD and nVidia are going after the leftovers

Much the same way that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, etc are "after the leftovers" - i.e. they're only "leftovers" if you're somewhat confused when you consider the bigger picture...

Spoke to Torvalds yesterday (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940687)

But I comed into your mom's mouth last nite

Re:Spoke to Torvalds yesterday (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941131)

Is this the best the closed sourced shills can do anymore? What does it matter to Linus that which gives her pleasure?

"Crashing while a gpu reset is going on" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940807)

I was busy crashing your mom's ass last night

(While you were busy in her basement resetting your GPU)

DRM?? (-1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940847)

Maybe he meant something else, but it makes me nervous when somebody mentions "drm" and "Linux kernel" in the same sentence.

Re:DRM?? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940889)

then you clearly don't know much about the Linux kernel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager [wikipedia.org]

Re:DRM?? (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941047)

"then you clearly don't know much about the Linux kernel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager [wikipedia.org] "

No, I don't know all that much about the Linux kernel, but that doesn't matter very much because it was a joke. Okay, smart guy?

Re:DRM?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941437)

Yes, but jokes are defined by being funny.

Re:DRM?? (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#42946399)

"Yes, but jokes are defined by being funny."

(A) No, jokes are defined by the intent to be funny. There are funny jokes and unfunny jokes, but they're all still jokes.

(B) "Funny" is in the eye of the beholder.

Re:DRM?? (3, Informative)

Opyros (1153335) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940909)

"Direct Rendering Manager", or "Direct Rendering Module".

GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (3, Interesting)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940849)

Since Vista, the Windows OS deals with this by chatting with the graphics,
if the graphics doesn't reply in a reasonable amount of time the OS will reset the program.

Playing an intensive game like Battle Field 3 this tends to happen a lot. The video
card is too busy and doesn't have the time to chat; so the game just goes away.
Your either at your desktop like nothing is wrong other than not playing a game anymore,
or staring at the last graphics frame shown with a hard reset in your future.

VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE is what one error calls itself and fixed by disabling the "Timeout Detection and Recovery (TDR)."
Key added here: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers then disabled.

I have a write up about this in my journal but it's not worth reading, it's wordy and doesn't flow a bit.
A better write up is here http://mikemstech.blogspot.com/2011/12/troubleshooting-0x116-videotdrerror.html [blogspot.com]
a site I found after running a debug on the one (single) .DMP file that managed to be written before the OS
became unresponsive.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940919)

I don't feel it's as big an issue as you paint it as. I play games on a daily basis under Windows 7, generally of the highly--graphically-taxing kinds of games, and I have yet to have issues with TDR -- no hard lock-ups, not thrown to the desktop suddenly with the game-client forced to quit, no nothing.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942369)

I don't feel it's as big an issue as you paint it

Same. I've been overheating GPUs with games in Windows 7 since 2009 and I've seen exactly two GPU resets.

His system is misconfigured. That's all.

You have a problem (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940941)

You need to stop blaming Windows and/or the GPU vendor and troubleshoot your system. My GPU has reset precisely zero times when playing BF3, over a total of about 107 hours. I have seen GPU resets on my system on rare occasion, generally with broken software, but never in BF3 and I have more than a bit of testing with it.

You have something wrong on your system, you should figure out what.

Re:You have a problem (1)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941351)

You need to stop blaming Windows and/or the GPU vendor and troubleshoot your system. My GPU has reset precisely zero times when playing BF3, over a total of about 107 hours. I have seen GPU resets on my system on rare occasion, generally with broken software, but never in BF3 and I have more than a bit of testing with it.

You have something wrong on your system, you should figure out what.

I'm not saying there's nothing is wrong with my system. I can say we have
different systems I built mine not sure yours, but they are different.

This GPU reset I refer to is intentional and part of a program called a "Windows user experience"
"Windows User Experience Guidelines" http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=4249 [microsoft.com] (PDF)

The GPU reset is explained here in more detail."Timeout Detection and Recovery of GPUs through WDDM"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/gg487368.aspx [microsoft.com]

Nope sorry it's a windows feature since vista, I just disable it.

Re:You have a problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941933)

I'm not saying there's nothing is wrong with my system.

But, there IS something wrong with your system. You got a shit video card. Happened to me here in China. Can't recall the exact Nvidia model, but the card frequently reset playing Team Fortress 2. I found under clocking the GPU by 50 Mhz increased the stability, but it wasn't till I bought a Nvidia GT440 for 300 yuan that the problem went away completely. Now, TF2 and a host of other games like Batman: Arkham City, GTA IV, Dead Space 2, Bioshock 2, and Bionic Commando play perfectly. I haven't had a single GPU reset since I replaced my old card.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (1)

Z34107 (925136) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940945)

I haven't seen an error like that since the Longhorn beta. I don't doubt that you ran into that problem, but "it happens a lot" is just wrong.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42940957)

So you believe an OS should freeze, or "blue screen" if you prefer, simply due to a graphic card error? How about at least letting users ssh into the troublesome box so we can finish whatever other tasks we have the all the other components of the machine working on?

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941727)

So you believe an OS should freeze, or "blue screen" if you prefer, simply due to a graphic card error? How about at least letting users ssh into the troublesome box so we can finish whatever other tasks we have the all the other components of the machine working on?

What, SSH in to finish up that LibreOffice document we were working on before the graphics crashed? HOW? Christ, not everyone uses a GUI to run xterms.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942287)

Start.
LaTex is better than whatever bloated java office suite you use.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (1)

cheater512 (783349) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940975)

And people say Windows is easier than Linux. :P

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941965)

It is easier. The OP doesn't really understand the problem. He has a shitty, unstable video card. I had a similar expereince with a card that was being reset while playing Team Fortress 2 unless I under clocked it. Replaced the card and all the problems went away.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941187)

Check your power supply, it was the culprit here.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (1)

hot soldering iron (800102) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941235)

Try running some benchmark/testing software on your RAM. It sounds like you've some bad memory cells. And please be clipped to the case with an ESD wrist strap if/when you go poking around inside your case. I had a clients machine that would crash instantly if you waved your hand over the memory chips (dinosaur days). The ESD damage just accumulated enough that the system became flaky. I replaced the chips and the problem went away.

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941249)

Wasn't it that the OS will reset the graphics driver, not the program?

Re:GPU reset, Windows users should be so lucky (1)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941467)

Wasn't it that the OS will reset the graphics driver, not the program?

Lots of dissent on my post some people have problems some don't.

I fixed the problem I was having by myself and google, the graphics driver
was never reported as a problem, just an entry in the EventViewer that BF3.exe had stopped working
I'd never of known why this specific error occurred if I hadn't of had that one .DMP file to debugged.

A copy and paste of a portion of the debug output is how I found the site I referenced as that's
exactly how my debug output read.

Never a blue screen because of it. Just stopped as mentioned above.
I've also never had that type of error again, since stopping the TDR.
Can't say that it's a fix all as others may have different problems
Google: bf3.exe has stopped working site:http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3 http://preview.tinyurl.com/bakgrpe [tinyurl.com]

Not playing by the rules and standards dictated (3, Informative)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940853)

GPU resets:

"Other ideas for troubleshooting:"

{list not quoted}

"I wouldn't pin this problem on Microsoft. Ultimately, this crash is due to game/software developers
and graphics card manufacturers (such as ATI/AMD and NVidia) developing buggy devices and software
and not playing by the rules and standards dictated for a specific platform like Windows. There are
many cases of similar events happening on UNIX/Linux systems, so this problem is not specifically isolated to Windows."

The above is a quote from http://mikemstech.blogspot.com/2011/12/troubleshooting-0x116-videotdrerror.html [blogspot.com]
a site I have nothing to do with; just a google result that helped me out one time.

Re:Not playing by the rules and standards dictated (1)

Larryish (1215510) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941927)

When can we get some improved support for older onboard Intel graphics chips?

Ah -- way back when linux was at .099.1 (0)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about a year and a half ago | (#42940929)

Anyways...
For years and years on end I used to study linux kernel code and hack it a few times.

Not so much, anymore, these days.

GEM's, Syrjälä's, seqnqo's --- by golly, I just hope you kids know what yer doing...

Wow, finally fixed? (2)

ZorinLynx (31751) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941039)

>the kernel doesn't stall for a few frames while probing outputs in the background!

Is this why my Intel based XBMC box skips frames occasionally when watching videos? I was able to fix it by downgrading to a specific kernel version that did not have the problem.

I've been unable to upgrade this machine ever since, and am still running on that ancient install and kernel for this reason. It'd be nice if it was finally fixed!

Intal Graphics + Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941051)

My patience on the above subject ran out a loooong time ago....

Unexploded acronyms (3)

jabberw0k (62554) | about a year and a half ago | (#42941123)

Presumably the article refers to Direct Rendering Management [wikipedia.org] and not Digital Rights Management. Any clue what GEM they are talking about? Unless it's a revival of Digital Research's GEM [wikipedia.org] -- the alternate windowing platform that Ventura Publisher used to use. Article authors: Please expand acronyms with the first usage.

Re:Unexploded acronyms (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42941221)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Execution_Manager

Re:Unexploded acronyms (1)

geschild (43455) | about a year ago | (#42954361)

I had the exact same association with GEM, but the link you provided really made me relive moments from over 25 odd years ago in college where I first saw that beast called GEM. Seeing your #id, I guess our lawns are in the same street.

Wake me up (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42942411)

when the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL nonsense gets removed

AMD management still truly clueless (1)

non-e-moose (994576) | about a year and a half ago | (#42949081)

Too bad the AMD sacked the vast majority of their software people with any sort of Linux skills/background at the end of October. They could have been relevant.

Putting the data of small files into the inodes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42972931)

... was proposed back in 1984 by Andrew Tanenbaum (do a Google scholar search for his name and "immediate files"). Glad to see it made it into Linux a mere 29 years later.

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