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Sony Announces the PS4

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the brand-new dept.

Sony 587

As many expected, Sony has officially announced the PS4 at the Sony PlayStation Meeting today. The new PlayStation will have an X86 processor, "state of the art" GPU, 8 GB of high-speed unified memory, and a hard drive for local storage. The PS4 will allow gamers to share their gameplay stream and even remotely take control of friend's games. Along with the PS4, Sony has unveiled a new DualShock 4 controller which features a built-in touchpad at the center of the controller, and a built-in microphone jack.

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Excellent (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960823)

I was looking forward to this.

Obvious question (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960829)

How does it compare as a general-purpose desktop PC?

Re:Obvious question (4, Interesting)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960901)

or as a component in a HPC cluster

disassembly reveals It's really an IBM (5, Funny)

jabberw0k (62554) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961399)

Actually this is the long-awaited stealth revival of IBM's PC division -- the PS/4. Internally it runs IBM's new Linux distribution, OS/4, and have the new integrated high-speed peripheral serial bus, MCA-Wire.

Re:Obvious question (1)

DragonTHC (208439) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961451)

UEFI, custom peripherals, and software stack.

Gaikai will be a major component of the PS4 experience.

"Uses an X86 Processor" (1, Insightful)

sidthegeek (626567) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960833)

So what exactly is gonna differentiate this from a mid-level to high-end gaming rig? And does it run Linux (and will Linux not be snatched away as if it's their right to tell us what we can use our own hardware for)?

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (3, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960863)

So what exactly is gonna differentiate this from a mid-level to high-end gaming rig?

It's not even surpassing a low to mid-level right these days. Welcome to the "lets carry it along" generation, instead of "lets improve it along."

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960895)

8 Cores is not low end

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960931)

8 Cores is not low end

He said "low to mid-level right" which was obviously a political reference.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (2, Informative)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961007)

8 *Bulldozer* cores, which makes it comparable to an i5 - mid-level for gaming. And underclocked to 2GHz - so maybe more like an i3. Which makes it...

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961253)

8 *Bulldozer* cores, which makes it comparable to an i5 - mid-level for gaming. And underclocked to 2GHz - so maybe more like an i3. Which makes it...

Irrelevant because the GPU is the bottle neck.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (5, Insightful)

DigiShaman (671371) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961283)

Doesn't work like that. Frequency, instruction set efficiency, and parallel execution are different aspects of a modern processor. You can't just lump them all togeather and brand it an i5ish CPU. Which BTW is a false comparison anyways as an i5 has four real cores.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (5, Informative)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961481)

Benchmark-wise, an FX 8350, the 8-core top-end Piledriver, is considered comparable to the i5 3570. The i5 generally takes a large lead in single-threaded performance, but the FX leads on the more parallel stuff. Still effectively a tie, especially with the mere $10 price difference. People I know tend to go Intel, since it's cooler and (if you spring $30 for the 3570K version) it overclocks better, but for most purposes they can be considered equivalents.

However, the 8350 is clocked at 4.0GHz, precisely twice that the PS4 is rumored to have (the detailed specs were not shown tonight, but the stuff that was matches up exactly with what the leaked specs claimed so I'm treating them as reasonably accurate). So it is a reasonable conclusion that the PS4 chip would run approximately half as fast as the FX-8350. Yes, cache hit rates, memory controller clocks and all that will affect it, but at the end of the day, the processor has to run instructions, and if it does that at half the rate, it's running slower. (And yes, you can compare the PS4 and FX clock-for-clock, because they're the same architecture (at least as far as my information goes)).

I simply used i3/i5 as a reference, as they are both more generic names than FX-4300/FX-8350, and Intel has a larger market share and brand awareness, so their labels make for better shorthand.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Zeromous (668365) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961427)

This is misinformative at best and at worst perpetuates a rather simplistic view of processing. Where are the troll points?

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (3, Insightful)

CajunArson (465943) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961449)

Those are *not* Bulldozer cores! They are more similar to the lower-end Jaguar cores that are going into AMD's tablet & netbook products. They are still a major step up from the actual cores in the Cell (those SPE things are not really "cores"), but even a Bulldozer core will be more powerful than these things on a clock for clock basis.

The good news is the GPU is pretty nice for this type of system and the power consumption should be quite good, so heat won't be an issue. Definitely a huge step up from PS3 hardware, and "console ports" won't suck so bad since this thing is basically a real PC.

It's not all about power....differentiators are... (3, Informative)

schlachter (862210) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961457)

Price. It will probably cost $500. A similarly equipped Windows PC would be $1,000+

Ease of use. No viruses. No configuring software and hardware. Guaranteed game performance.

Long life. 7+ yrs of life cycle with no upgrades to play all games.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961079)

It's not really high end anymore either as 8 cores have been around for quite a while. Add to that it's rare now to see a business refresh NOT having a minimum of 4 cores for entry level desktops, it's not as big a deal as it used to. However, consoles usually have less overheads typical to a desktop system.

From a desktop comparison PoV, it seems it only has the GPU going for it and I wonder if that's because we know nothing about it yet :)

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (4, Insightful)

Kenshin (43036) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961041)

A dedicated gaming console doesn't have the desktop OS overhead to deal with. You can squeeze more out of less in this case. Especially with devs working to a fixed target.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961351)

The PS3 dedicated one of the Cells SPEs to running the hypervisor*, so it wasn't like the PS3 was exactly free of OS overheads. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to dedicate a whole CPU core in the PS4 to whatever OS stuff they want running in the background.

*Yes, I know the difference between a hypervisor and an OS, but I'm lumping it as part of the OS for this purpose because of how it was used.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (3, Insightful)

Entropius (188861) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961355)

Is there really that much overhead?

I just ssh'd into my linux machine at work (which has a Gnome UI going) and ran top, and it says that 99.7% of the CPU is idle, with 0.25% used by top.

I'm on a Win 7 box right now (quad-core 2GHz Sandy Bridge laptop), with a gazillion Firefox etc. tabs open. The CPU may well not be running at its highest clock speed, but it reports about 10% CPU usage -- from "FlashPlayerPlugin.exe", presumably because I'm streaming 1080p video with no GPU assist on the decode. Firefox itself, along with "System", are using 1% CPU.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (1)

Arakageeta (671142) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961447)

With respect to throughput and multitasking, your desktop OS may be better. Theoretically, a focused game OS may take steps to reduce worst-case latency (real-time OS techniques) and optimize operations for game-related workloads (possibly game-tuned memory allocators?). Unfortunately, console makers are very secretive on how their OSs are designed and implemented. I would be interested to hear from anyone who is familiar with modern game OS development. Is there any secret sauce?

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (1)

countach (534280) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961415)

Does it really matter? What is the "desktop OS" doing when a game takes over the machine? If it is doing something, I question whether some "game OS" can do it better or faster.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (1)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960921)

Sounds like the only thing is eight cores instead of two or four... but give it time, typical general-purpose computers will catch up on that soon enough. This reminds me of... Xbox.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (1)

Stormy Dragon (800799) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961239)

Is it actually eight cores, or are they counting the hyperthreads as seperate cores the way Windows does?

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961003)

The scuttlebutt I heard is it's an AMD Jaguar architecture APU with 8 cores, enhanced GCN architecture GPU, with 8GB of unified GDDR5.

Which would make for a console with mid-level to high-end gaming rig frame rates at resolutions PC gamers expect which we haven't had up till now.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (5, Funny)

vux984 (928602) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961063)

Which would make for a console with mid-level to high-end gaming rig frame rates at resolutions PC gamers expect which we haven't had up till now.

Yeah! Decent framerates at 1080p! Wooo! The future was a few years ago!

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (2, Funny)

Threni (635302) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961009)

> So what exactly is gonna differentiate this from a mid-level to high-end gaming rig?

It's completely different: Before "the uses of living room consoles were in flux" but now "The living room is no longer the center of the PlayStation ecosystem; the player is.". Duh! Do try and keep up!

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961029)

It doesn't run windows.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (2, Troll)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961037)

So what exactly is gonna differentiate this from a mid-level to high-end gaming rig?

The lock-down, the retention of control over your system by Sony, etc.

not be snatched away as if it's their right to tell us what we can use our own hardware for

Do you even have to ask?

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (5, Interesting)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961135)

And the same machine code as a PC. I'll just wait till someone writes an emulator.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (5, Funny)

lordofthechia (598872) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961043)

So what exactly is gonna differentiate this from a mid-level to high-end gaming rig?

Well for one it will protect you from accidentally installing Steam and being burdened with a huge library of inexpensive games!

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961249)

It will also have its own completely new and improved, unbreakable* DRM system.

(*Just like the PS3 was unbreakable)

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (1)

Zeromous (668365) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961433)

Where are those useful hacked PS3s I heard so much about?

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (1)

threeboy (753488) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961077)

Platform exclusives. Also like every previous console generation the hardware doesn't sound as impressive as your PC but the software is optimized for the platform and doesn't have to run as much OS overhead. (as far as I know).

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961165)

So what exactly is gonna differentiate this from a mid-level to high-end gaming rig? And does it run Linux (and will Linux not be snatched away as if it's their right to tell us what we can use our own hardware for)?

The games.

Re:"Uses an X86 Processor" (4, Interesting)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961193)

So what exactly is gonna differentiate this from a mid-level to high-end gaming rig?

Using unified GDDR5 memory is going to be really interesting. They quote 176GB/s -- the DDR3 in your high-end gaming rig is pushing maybe 50GB/s. It's not going to excel at purely GPU-bound stuff compared to a PC, but for things which require the GPU and CPU to work together (like, say, games), it should be incredibly fast.

There's also the thing about OS overhead -- Windows/Linux do a lot to ensure the kernel won't be brought down by a driver/GPU failure. John Carmack and others have lamented about how terribly inefficient it is, and that it allows console games to look remarkably close to much higher-speced PCs.

At least emulators will be easy to do. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960837)

I wouldn't be surprised if a simple patch/crack could make PS4 games run on every standard PC (which already will be more powerful right now). And with the lack of actual emulations, it will run at pretty much full speed. Attach a USB controller, and go.

The only question is, as always, not if, but when Sony will go bankrupt. ;)

Re:At least emulators will be easy to do. (2)

halltk1983 (855209) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961387)

Unless it counts on the unified memory space between the processor and video card to pass back and forth information at a per-cycle timing. Then, you might have to bust out a soldering iron.

Sony on Slashdot (5, Funny)

Kenshin (43036) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960853)

Cue the usual litany of complaints: Rootkits, OtherOS, proprietary this and that.

Hint: If you're in that boat, PS4 probably isn't for you. You don't have to buy it. You don't have to buy the new Xbox either, which will be equally restrictive.

Re:Sony on Slashdot (0, Troll)

spire3661 (1038968) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960897)

Hint: If you dont feel the same way, Slashdot probably isnt for you... You dont have to be here, you dont have to post...

Re:Sony on Slashdot (3, Informative)

Kenshin (43036) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960967)

Slashdot isn't a singular entity. The minority with a burning hatred for Sony may be vocal, but they don't represent us all.

But the same talking points dominating every discussion get tiresome.

Re:Sony on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961147)

Yeah you must be new here but the "minority" that you speak of are in fact the ones who support Sony. Sony has been circling the drain for years, and now they bring out a less powerful desktop and call it a console? Please...

Re:Sony on Slashdot (3, Interesting)

aNonnyMouseCowered (2693969) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961159)

"The minority with a burning hatred for Sony may be vocal, but they don't represent us all."

LOL. Hatred is reserved for things that still matter. Like Apple, Microsoft, Facebook maybe even Google. Sony is quite simply irrelevant.

Re:Sony on Slashdot (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961093)

So Slashdot is just an echo chamber for useless faggots like you? No wonder nobody worth a damn posts here logged in anymore.

Re:Sony on Slashdot (3, Interesting)

Kenshin (43036) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961211)

Echo chamber for people like me? Nope. It's an echo chamber for people piling on to say "This thing that a subsidiary caused happened 10 years ago! NEVER FORGIVE!!!"

Re:Sony on Slashdot (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961247)

"This thing that a subsidiary caused happened 10 years ago! NEVER FORGIVE!!!"

Anonymous? Is that you?! I always knew you had a real identity.

Re:Sony on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961259)

I think you misunderstood. That comment was directed at at spire3661.

Re:Sony on Slashdot (1)

Kenshin (43036) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961325)

Ah, OK. Simple misunderstanding. :)

Re:Sony on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960945)

Well, since it has an x86 CPU, there is probably no point either way, unless Sony forces 3-rd party publishers to not make PS4 titles available for the PC. And even in that case, emulation will probably take care of that. Sure, Sony probably has some DRM chips to stop that, and they may last a bit, but we'll see.

Re:Sony on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960959)

So, you support and defend companies which consistently, predictably, and reliably treat their own customers like idiotic pawns?

Giving Sony money is very much like reverse prostitution - paying someone to brutally rape you and treat you like shit.

meh - each to their own idea of pleasure I guess.

Trust Sony? HA! (0, Troll)

sconeu (64226) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960869)

Why exactly would I give money to Sony?

* Rootkit fiasco
* Stripping Linux from the PS3
* Hotz Lawsuit

These and many many more.

Re:Trust Sony? HA! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961013)

* Stripping Linux from the PS3

This alone makes up for their other mistakes. I'll definitely be supporting them in the future.

Re:Trust Sony? HA! (1)

fazey (2806709) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961229)

I dont get it... So you are anti-linux or something?

Re:Trust Sony? HA! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961085)

Why exactly would I give money to Sony?

* Rootkit fiasco
* Stripping Linux from the PS3
* Hotz Lawsuit

These and many many more.

Rootkit: affected no one other than Sony getting sued once. Microsoft's product allow remote rootkits 100 million times a week.

OtherOS: removal didn't affect anyone, Linux on the PS3 was terrible. Anyone that used it could have told you that.

Hotz: who gives a shit? One dweeb copying a three year old bus glitch to dump memory affected no one, other than a possible connection to a tiny number of pirate games units that cannot update the OS.

Face it, you're an xbot sony-hater for the sake of it. Sony make stuff, buy it, or don't. No one cares. Just save the FUD, it makes you look pathetic.

Ah, that would be the fourth reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961143)

Poe's Law: it's not just for religious kooks!

Re:Trust Sony? HA! (5, Interesting)

Doctor_Jest (688315) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961187)

OtherOS: removal didn't affect anyone, Linux on the PS3 was terrible. Anyone that used it could have told you that.

That's not the point. The point is I paid for it and they removed it. It is not unlike a car owner taking his car in for an oil change and the manufacturer removing the radio... It's not the radio... it's the principle of Sony being jerks.

You can keep your PS4 and XBox 720. I am not interested. Save your fanboy slobbering for the Sony forums.

Re:Trust Sony? HA! (4, Informative)

sconeu (64226) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961343)

Linux on the PS3 was terrible. Anyone that used it could have told you that.

Really??? Tell that to the US Air Force [popsci.com] .

Move than Apple and Microsoft Absolutely (5, Interesting)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961133)

Why exactly would I give money to Sony?

* Rootkit fiasco
* Stripping Linux from the PS3
* Hotz Lawsuit

These and many many more.

Except there are not many more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal [wikipedia.org] have a look its 7 years old, and recalling all the affected CDs. I'd rather give my money to Sony over Microsoft every time. In fact people seem to forget that Sony did this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc [wikipedia.org] . As for the whole Linux thing, they should have been rewarded for doing so, and got the tax breaks associated with it. They didn't it got removed. The fact that we a licensing our devices rather than buying them is interesting considering how Microsoft & Apple are doing with *general purpose* devices.

The reality is Sony is by mega-corporations standards pretty good. Personally though I bought an OUYA as I believe in supporting companies, who release hardware that you *own*

Re:Move than Apple and Microsoft Absolutely (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961473)

"They didn't it got removed.[sic]"

Horrible grammar like that invalidates your entire post. Try again Sony Fanboi.

Re:Trust Sony? HA! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961213)

You forgot the Lik-Sang [lik-sang.com] saga.

PC gaming is dead? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960883)

Long live the console that looks like it is little more than a proprietary PC.

Re:PC gaming is dead? (2)

Kelbear (870538) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960965)

Consoles have always been proprietary PCs.

The hardware changes constantly, the difference between console and PC in gaming has always been about who has control over the environment.

Re:PC gaming is dead? (1)

threeboy (753488) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961103)

...not to mention who controls the software ecosystem that surrounds the product. Consoles aren't PC's and vice versa.

Re:PC gaming is dead? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961087)

It's like a Steam box, without Steam!

Controller still bluetooth ? (2)

johnjones (14274) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960933)

I Hope so ! some standard of some kind HID profile... Sony controllers are some of the best and if they want people to say nice things about them simply make them the standard that everyone hacks things with how much press did the Wee get because they used standards...

I hope its standard bluetooth I really do

Re:Controller still bluetooth ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961181)

I don't really care whether it's bluetooth or not, I use it plugged into my PC for most of my titles. (the ones that feel better using a controller anyway)

Re:Controller still bluetooth ? (2)

Stormwatch (703920) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961261)

Sony controllers are some of the best

Hell, no! Maybe the build quality is good, but the Dualshock is quite uncomfortable. When I got a PS2, first thing I did was order a Phoenix Revolution [over-blog.com] , which lets you swap the buttons and sticks around. Of course, after you set it like an Xbox 360 pad, there's no reason to ever change them again. And if you have a PS3, looks like Gioteck [gioteck.com] has some pads in this same 360 style that most gamers favor now.

How long until the PS4 is irrelevant? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960963)

The one thing that has kept consoles alive today was the fact that they weren't x86. You want to play Halo 4? Buy a '360, because the binaries are not only encoded but compiled for a completely different architecture (PowerPC). You want to play Killzone 2 or 3 or MGS4? Buy a PS3, because it's the same thing.

Now that they're pushing "supercharged PC architectures" (what the hell does that even mean?)- how long until we see a hypervisor or bootloader that fires up the next-gen console OS on a bog standard PC that otherwise has similar specifications to the equivalent console?

Sony must have some insane dedicated hardware security in that system, because if they don't and it's just a tiny little 8-pin TPM chip- someone is going to blow that thing wide open, and then there won't be any point to buying a PS4 at all. Just partition your existing PC or buy a spare $59 hard drive, stick the PS4 GameOS on that, and play all the PS3 "exclusives" without even owning a PS4.

I'm sure they were worried about piracy before, but man- I can't see how they're *not* shitting bricks over that right now with the switch to x86, unless they've got some killer hardware TPM coprocessor that is handling encryption and decryption on a SOC, completely self-contained and relatively unbreakable (until someone decaps the thing and reads out the bits under a microscope).

Except I bought the original XBOX... (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961183)

...because it was X86. I wouldn't now I bought a OUYA. The truth is I booted the XBMC on the rasberry pi, and the memories came flooding back.

The reality is the homebrew scene only possible because of its cheap PC internals gave the xbox a serious push.

Re:How long until the PS4 is irrelevant? (2)

Zaiff Urgulbunger (591514) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961233)

Total speculation on my part, but it sounds like the GPU and CPU are all on the same die and so I'd guess they'll put whatever security they're using in there.

Again, me speculating, but I'd guess the reason for switching to a X86 architecture has a lot to do with lowering their development costs. Anything custom they do need to develop, such as the GPU (assuming they're not using something off the shelf) they can also sell on their laptops... maybe?

Re:How long until the PS4 is irrelevant? (-1, Flamebait)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961319)

That's not really what keeps consoles alive.

If I want to play the latest game for a PC, I have to check the specs, buy a new video card every year. I'll have to upgrade the CPU and RAM every 2 years or so as well. A decent gaming rig will set me back $1500 and be a money sink.

If I want to play the latest game for the 360, I buy the game and put it in the drive. It'll run. It cost $500 with the extra controllers and the Kinect. I won't have to upgrade it until I decide to buy the next gen XBox.

Re:How long until the PS4 is irrelevant? (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961409)

and in 2-3 years new mid-range pc's will be smoking this likely with at least X2 the ram.

FrankenStation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960979)

Any ideas yet on the possibilities of a FrankenStation? The hardware uses standard PC components but the 8GB of unified GDDR5 memory might be a bit tricky, plus we don't know how it boots.

That's big news... (4, Insightful)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | about a year and a half ago | (#42960989)

...and I wouldn't buy a Sony product if they paid me to take it. I have not forgotten what they do to their customers in the name of IP. Groklaw it.

Re:That's big news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961309)

If they pay you to take it could you give it to me then?

Thanks

So the Cell processor is no more? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42960995)

Wasn't the big selling point of the PS3 was that it has the Cell processor? Is the Cell officially dead?

Re:So the Cell processor is no more? (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961163)

AMD is cheaper than IBM. Higher profit margins.

Re:So the Cell processor is no more? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961241)

The PS3s selling points were that first and foremost it was a "Next Generation Console". Second it offered backwards compatibility with almost all PS2 games and third if you wanted to throw another OS on it you could with little trouble. Lastly they offered an Xbox killer both original and 360 in way of better and higher detailed textures and faster frame rates due to the proc they used, Cell. Then Sony in their infinite wisdom started axing parts out by either issuing over the network updates or completely stripping them on newer console that they sold.

Any optical drive at all? (3, Interesting)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961019)

I see no mention of whether or not there is an optical drive on this system. Obviously if they have no optical drive they have broken compatibility with existing titles from earlier playstations.

Re:Any optical drive at all? (1)

Sunshinerat (1114191) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961073)

How easy would it be to emulate the old cell processor on the new hardware to support old titles?
Also, its been made clear by the industry that reselling of games is not the way to the future, delivery (and payment) on demand is.
When you control the delivery mechanism, you control the money flow.

Re:Any optical drive at all? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961209)

How easy would it be to emulate the old cell processor on the new hardware to support old titles?

You, I, or any slashdot user would likely find it an enormously difficult task. However, Sony has financial resources that likely exceed the net wealth of all active slashdot users combined, and has had plenty of time to figure this out. They did not decide this afternoon to use an X86 CPU for the PS4, they made the decision some time ago and could have started on the Cell emulation back then if they so wanted to.

Also, its been made clear by the industry that reselling of games is not the way to the future, delivery (and payment) on demand is.

True, but if you forcefully disconnect users from their existing libraries they might not be so excited to go out and hand over their money.

There is also the fact that they persistently sold the PS3 as "the best Blu-Ray player on the market". Now they want PS3 owners to get rid of their PS3 to upgrade to a PS4, but they won't have Blu-Ray support in the PS4?

Re:Any optical drive at all? (1)

countach (534280) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961443)

My guess is that it's doable, but Sony is too brain-dead a company to do it. The bean counters would say "what's the benefit to us", to which the answer would be "none, or even negative", so it won't be done.

Re:Any optical drive at all? (1)

threeboy (753488) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961095)

There's still people without solid internet connection. The time to go straight digital isn't now. Sony invented Blu-Ray. I'd bet $2 there's an optical drive.

Re:Any optical drive at all? (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961195)

Existing titles are compiled to run on a PowerPC-like architecture. They've moved to X86.
They should have enough CPU power to emulate a PS2 though. Just keep your PS3 games till the PS5 comes out.

uhhhhhh....no (-1, Redundant)

Libertarian001 (453712) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961035)

Lame. Do not want.

That's nothing (5, Insightful)

greg1104 (461138) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961049)

The PS3 already allowed non-friends to take control of my bank account.

x86 wins again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961053)

That hardware is as exciting as an empty cardboard box.

No backwards compatibility (no physical media?) (2)

RyoShin (610051) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961105)

One of the most damning things to me is the lack of backwards compatibility (at least, far as I can tell from the Engadget feed I've been sort of following). I lost all interest in the PS3 when they stopped including PS2/1 compatibility (yes, I know I can find older, used systems, but screw Sony). Considering the library many gamers have, I don't think that having one prior console's worth of compatibility is asking too much, especially to help boost early sales if the launch library is less than tremendous.

But a part of this that I find highly interesting that there's no mention of physical media. Plenty of talk about the cloud, downloading games in the background and playing them as they download (I will be highly interested to see how this works out, if at all), and an internal hard drive... but no physical media. I mean, BluRay is the obvious choice for Sony, but not a mention either in the Ars article or the Engadget feed (unless I missed it.) Even the concise "Informed System Architecture" shows all your regular parts of a system... except the media.

Sony confirms it (1)

future assassin (639396) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961293)

I mean, BluRay is the obvious choice for Sony, but not a mention either in the Ars article or the Engadget feed (unless I missed it.) Even the concise "Informed System Architecture" shows all your regular parts of a system... except the media.

BluRay is dead...???

Do you want to download 25 GB 50 GB games / movies (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961453)

Do you want to download 25 GB 50 GB games / movies. Also need to store them as well at least this has a HDD.

Maybe with DCL setup so you can play while the rest of the game downloads in the background is good but the game makers need to setup it up right or you want have long loading screens.

Re:No backwards compatibility (no physical media?) (1)

Doctor_Jest (688315) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961299)

But a part of this that I find highly interesting that there's no mention of physical media.

I suspect it's an afterthought. It will be a BluRay player, and I suspect that only movies (and the odd game compilation that you have to install to your "cloud") will come on optical discs.

People were wondering how Sony was going to kill used games. This just might be it... To be perfectly honest, I am not really keen on the new ideas coming from Sony. I am not interested in the ephemeral nature of "games in the cloud". I think it's a step backwards, but it's a cash cow for Sony and Microsoft, because they're looking to go whole-hog into this business model... customer be damned.

I knew it was bound to happen sometime, but consoles are now something I won't buy. I have a backlog of PS2 games to last me until doomsday... so I don't think I'll run out of things to play (just devices to play them on, I imagine...) heh.

Re:No backwards compatibility (no physical media?) (1)

Terkanil (1533411) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961323)

First, I'll note that I fall into the crowd that will not be purchasing this console. The lack of physical media is how Sony apparently plans to control the game market for the console. They recently had a bit fall with locking games to a console, which is pretty damning in my opinion, especially as Sony has been attempting to kill the Used game market for years now. Lacking physical media places the PS4 alongside walled garden environments as seen with the Apple, Andriod, and WinRT devices. These apps as far as I'm aware, cannot be transferred. As such its quite likely that Sony is pushing games for the PS4 in a similar fashion. Once you've shelled out for the game, its yours.

Re:No backwards compatibility (no physical media?) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961327)

I don't see why backwards compatibility is important. If a game is worth it, they will port it to the new system. Otherwise, backwards compatibility is a burden to support and can limit innovation.

Re:No backwards compatibility (no physical media?) (1)

Shikaku (1129753) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961403)

It's the PSP Go all over again, wait and see. If there really is no optical drive then it's dead.

x86 cpu (1)

stevenh2 (1853442) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961111)

Could make a emulator easy.
Pirate all the games you want and run it on your PC
No money to sony

...or it could bring benefits (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961291)

Like more Linux games [Like it needs anymore]. Sony have been talking about using the Playstation brand more. Opening a cross platform shop could bring *more* money to sony. I would love a playstation certified PC :)

Profit (3, Interesting)

future assassin (639396) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961121)

Set up an easily hackable system
Cry to the gov "they're hacking us dry"
Ger new draconian copyright/drm laws passed
????
Profit

Bigger Profit (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961349)

Set up an easily hackable system
Cry to the gov "they're hacking us dry"
Ger new draconian copyright/drm laws passed
????
Profit

...Ironically the first reason why I bough the OUYA is because it was easily hackable. The reality implying Sony are *evil* for creating a more hackable box is insane.

First to 4k? Remember Blu's early days? (1)

Darwiniac (634349) | about a year and a half ago | (#42961127)

I remember getting the PS3 at a time when it seemed like the best Blu-Ray value. If this one brings a new 4k (real, not interpolated) Blu-Ray standard to the party, it might sell on that alone.

Re: ps4 price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42961413)

no price?

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