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221 comments

They say that now... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977827)

...but they've done the bait and switch before. I'm sure Microsoft will say something similar before the launch of their console.

Re:They say that now... (4, Funny)

c0lo (1497653) | about a year ago | (#42978133)

...but they've done the bait and switch before. I'm sure Microsoft will say something similar before the launch of their console.

I already know what they are going to say: 't was a misunderstanding. We wanted to say we'll still support a second controller for another hand to join in the game"

Re:They say that now... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978183)

Ubuntu £inux won't play used games. I tried to play the hit release Aliens: Colonial Marines and it wouldn't run! Who could run such shitty software! This is what it took to get me to reinstall Windows 8 and have a worry free desktop. I got tired of Shuttleworth's spyware *cough*Amazon integration, and the fact the Ubuntu phone will ship with a black specs NSA tracking strip for GPS location (the same experimental tracking device used in $20 bills - why do you think its illegal to destroy currency?). Fuck Ubuntu.

Re:They say that now... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978411)

I just checked the Wine AppDB. Perhaps it would be more appropriate in your future trolls to complain that Ubuntu actually can run Colonial Marines.

Re:They say that now... (3, Funny)

tehcyder (746570) | about a year ago | (#42978587)

I like the way this troll is slowly building in detail post by post. In a few months, it will be a proper mad rant. Try to remember not to use line/paragraph breaks.

Re:They say that now... (5, Informative)

Hardhead_7 (987030) | about a year ago | (#42978797)

Actually, according to this article in Wired [wired.com] the PS4 will be able to do it both ways. Publishers have the option of "registering" their games. Guess which they'll do? This is just a marketing ploy for Sony to be able to say "We aren't disabling used games, the publishers are!

Re:They say that now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978339)

Or, more realistically, "Yes, you can play games even after you used them for a while. We don't plan to widely introduce online-only subscription based games model on our consoles just yet."

Re:They say that now... (1)

Type44Q (1233630) | about a year ago | (#42978473)

for another hand to join in the game

No doubt Sony wants our hand to join in their game... for a reach-around. :p

Re:They say that now... (2)

Type44Q (1233630) | about a year ago | (#42978493)

In related news, Sony announces yet another forthcoming title in the music video game genre: Rusty Trombone...

Re:They say that now... (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about a year ago | (#42979023)

But will it come with a custom controller?

Bonus point for anybody who spots all the lame puns in that.

Re:They say that now... (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#42978159)

the machine itself supports it.

but publishers are free to include one time use dlc codes etc. and they will do that.

Re:They say that now... (2)

firex726 (1188453) | about a year ago | (#42978443)

Yep, on the PC now even retail purchased games are requiring codes to be tied to some online account, so you'd have to setup a new account for each and every game you buy, and if sold would have to hand over the account itself as well.

Wasn't Gamespot or someone discounting used copies of some popular game by like $10, which was the cost of the one time use activation code?

Re:They say that now... (1)

tehcyder (746570) | about a year ago | (#42978603)

the machine itself supports it.

but publishers are free to include one time use dlc codes etc. and they will do that.

That's hardly Sony's fault though.

I know, I know, Sony are teh evil, but come on...

Re:They say that now... (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#42978795)

Sony can set any standards they like on their console and often do. They have all kinds of weird ones done just for marketing or to keep the button layout fairly standard, they could easily require no onetime use codes for game content.

The honest way to do what you are talking about is to reduce the game price by $10 and move that stuff into a $10 DLC. That way everyone knows up front what they are getting into.

Re:They say that now... (3, Informative)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year ago | (#42978373)

I'm sure it will play used games for certain definitions of "play." Don't hold your breath for online play with used games or any other features they feel the used market can do without.

Re:They say that now... (-1, Troll)

flyneye (84093) | about a year ago | (#42978771)

Microcrud already said their console wouldn't play used games or borrowed games.
This is another fine example of the tech industry learning from the mistakes of Microsoft.

The slow erosion of our rights (4, Insightful)

Compact Dick (518888) | about a year ago | (#42977829)

While this article is framed as a victory for the consumer, it is yet another reminder that technology [such as Cinavia [wikipedia.org] ] can, and will, be used to subvert our existing rights [to lend, copy, borrow, make backups].

Step by step, resistance will be overcome and we shall be reduced to facilitators of consumption, thanks to the ever-increasing apathy amongst the general public.

Re:The slow erosion of our rights (5, Insightful)

tehcyder (746570) | about a year ago | (#42978625)

While this article is framed as a victory for the consumer, it is yet another reminder that technology [such as Cinavia [wikipedia.org] ] can, and will, be used to subvert our existing rights [to lend, copy, borrow, make backups].

Step by step, resistance will be overcome and we shall be reduced to facilitators of consumption, thanks to the ever-increasing apathy amongst the general public.

If you simply buy and play games (or watch movies or listen to music), you are already just a facilitator of consumption, you just don't realise it.

The main "right" you have is the right to stop buying/downloading/borrowing stuff and go and do something creative instead, if you're that worried about it.

sony makes promises (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977833)

Also, you'll be able to run linux on it!

Translation (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about a year ago | (#42977841)

"To save face I have decreed that the used-game lockout is to be removed from the product in development."

So? The games suck anyway (-1, Flamebait)

alen (225700) | about a year ago | (#42977855)

Other than better graphics I didn't see any improvements in gameplay from the promo videos

Re:So? The games suck anyway (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977895)

Other than graphics, there haven't been improvements in gameplay since the beginning of games.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (3, Insightful)

yakumo.unr (833476) | about a year ago | (#42977923)

I'm pretty sure the reason Quake is more addictive than Pong despite the learning curve is down to more than just fancier graphics.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (1)

tehcyder (746570) | about a year ago | (#42978689)

Other than graphics, there haven't been improvements in gameplay since the beginning of games.

Makes you wonder why they bother having computer games at all, when a simple game of throwing rocks against a wall was all that I had to play when I was young, and I was happy.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977937)

I don't even see the leap in graphics this time around... the killzone demo showed really detailed backgrounds and environments, but the realism was marginally better... anyone else sense this as well?

Re:So? The games suck anyway (2)

Mike Frett (2811077) | about a year ago | (#42978057)

To be honest, there isn't much more leaping that Video games can do at this point. Short of being able to render Cinema CGI on the fly, Game Graphics are finished for now.

Also, this announcement was a shock for me with all the talk about blocking used games. So who is it really that will black used games, Microsoft?; we've yet to hear from them. Anything could change though.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (4, Insightful)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | about a year ago | (#42978231)

Problem is you can't believe anything Sony says. I hate to rehash the other os removal, but that was sold as a feature with the console and they said several times it wouldn't be removed.

182w ago - Today Sony's Satoshi Hashimoto, in an interview with Impress Watch, confirmed that Sony will not be removing the OtherOS and Linux functionality in old (non-Slim) PlayStation 3 consoles. Until now, many feared Sony would remove the functionality from older PS3 systems via PS3 Firmware 3.0 or a future update. Additionally, he stated that there isn't an issue with the feature leaving a security hole with the system. To quote Andriasang.com (linked above): "Rest assured, this will not happen. Sony's Satoshi Hashimoto, in an interview with Impress Watch, said that Sony will not be removing the feature, which he refers to as "Other OS functionality." He also assured readers that there currently isn't a problem with the feature leaving a security hole with the system." Read more: http://www.ps3news.com/PS3-Linux/ps3-otheros-linux-to-remain-in-old-ps3s-no-security-hole/#ixzz2LdA1yfmE [ps3news.com]

There were also a lot of other things that were sold with the original PS3 that were then removed in future releases of the console. PS2 backward compatibility as an example. The first gen PS3 had it in hardware, the second gen had it in software. Then it was silently removed altogether. Luckily they didn't retro actively remove it. I know it's a little different because by the time you both the PS3 thin it was well known it didn't exist any more. To me that seems like an easily repeatable, first gen PS4 allows used games then before people know it all the sudden the feature is removed or phased out.

Sony's demonstrated that you can't believe what they say. I bought into the PS3 partly for the Other Os and was burned. Anyone who buys into the PS4 after know what with the PS3 deserves to get burned when Sony pulls another stunt.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (0, Troll)

Maxx169 (920414) | about a year ago | (#42978355)

Did you ever use the other os feature? I did. Or at least I gave it a shot. It was awful and worse than useless. It sucks that it was stolen from us, but really - nothing of value was lost. Complaining about it is nothing but mindless point scoring against the evil corporation that is Sony, only the vast minority ever used it legitimately and those using it weren't forced to install the psn update. Other OS was nothing but a gimmick (or perhaps a cunning ploy to evade some tariffs). Complaining only shows that you have a preconceived axe to grind.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978503)

How about i take your car and give you a pair of sneekers. I mean you can walk to work/school/where-ever. Why would you complain?

Re:So? The games suck anyway (2)

antek9 (305362) | about a year ago | (#42978831)

I tried it, and yes, it sucked, mainly due to the lack of RAM in the PS3, or at least that was my impression. The new console with 8GB of memory would be an altogether different story, though, read: beast. And still, there were several universities and businesses using clusters of PS3 for some serious calculations, which is obviously much more feasible since in that case you would dispose of all the linux UI overhead.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (4, Informative)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | about a year ago | (#42978889)

I did use the other os feature. I'm a software developer it was very useful as a development testing platform. I also had it setup at one put to be a 3D rendering node for some of my hobby 3D modelling. until my cousin and wife put in a bluRay we rented. I was upstairs making snacks when they ran the update. I was pretty pissed. My wife at least should have known better. No use crying over spilt milk, I haven't even turned the console on since we watched that movie. I only own one other bluRay that I was given for Christmas and my TV has a build in media server. Now that companies are actually getting interested in gaming on Linux I have no need for a console at all. I still think it's important to inform people about consumer rights being eroded away by companies like Microsoft and Sony. The other os was a major factor in my decision to buy the PS3 instead of an XBox or a Wii at the time. Having that removed several years after the purchase was a big slap in the face. The fall out of that is companies now including no class actions in their shrink wrap agreements. Huge loss for the consumer.

Re:So? The games suck anyway (2)

usuallylost (2468686) | about a year ago | (#42978691)

Sony has made it very clear that they aren't a customer focused company for at least the last 20 years. So just expect that they are going to do what benefits them no matter what it does to their customers and you won't be surprised. My personal answer has been to stop buying Sony products. The PS2 was the last thing I bought from them and I bought that at release so it has been 10+ years since I bought anything Sony. I considered buying a PS3 but then I read about all the shenanigans with PS2 support and bluray players started dropping in price. Unless the next Microsoft console is just totally unacceptable I won't be buying a PS4. You are doing something seriously wrong when Microsoft seems consumer friendly and customer focused by comparison.

Initially, it will play used games. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977857)

Just like Linux and the PS3.

Re:Initially, it will play used games. (2)

hduff (570443) | about a year ago | (#42978351)

Just like Linux and the PS3.

Whatever they say or do, they can and will change their minds.

Re:Initially, it will play used games. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978937)

I agree. Sony may also use product registration data to hunt down and kill their customers. Why not? If we're speculating, why not go completely batshit about it?

Do they need to? (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about a year ago | (#42977879)

It's clear that the PS4 is aimed at addressing many of the disadvantages of downloaded games (streaming full games to try them out, being able to play games before they finish downloading, etc.). If you can get people predominantly downloading games you obviate the second-hand games problem.

(But not reselling digital games, although Valve's legal team are hard at work to hobble that.)

Re:Do they need to? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978409)

disadvantages of downloaded games (being able to play games before they finish downloading, etc.).

You wot, mate?

That's hardly a disadventage of downloaded games. That's... just weird.

I don't go out to the shops, buy a boxed game and then while I'm on the train home think 'Gee whiz, I wish I could play this game before I've got it home'.

Re:Do they need to? (3, Insightful)

firex726 (1188453) | about a year ago | (#42978615)

Even then, one of the big selling points for Valve is that they offer steep sale prices frequently.

Sony & MS on the other hand will sell a download game for more then the it's retail counterpart because they do not want to piss off the retailers. Valve does not have this concern since few places still sell retail copies, and even then only the biggest AAA game of the month.

The only difference is the PS+ offering which is more like renting for an unknown time since games can come and go from the service.

Also it's unfair to demonize just Valve for the digital goods. Apple and other retailers of digital goods have been trying the whole "license/lease" argument for years, long before Steam became popular.

Sony removes features (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977897)

That would be fine except that Sony has shown that they are OK with removing features later, as they did with OtherOS and several others.

Re:Sony removes features (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about a year ago | (#42977927)

How do you remove not blocking second hand games? How do you retroactively make a conventional Blu-Ray disk turn into one where resale is prohibited?

Re:Sony removes features (1, Informative)

dreamchaser (49529) | about a year ago | (#42978097)

Easy, assuming each game copy has a unique key. Then you can do it in software quite easily. "Opps, sorry, Update 6.2.1.7 has detected that this game was registered to more than one console and is no longer playable."

Sure, someone might hack it, but for the vast majority of consumers that would make being able to play a used game a thing of the past.

Re:Sony removes features (5, Informative)

thoper (838719) | about a year ago | (#42978273)

well, it have been confirmed that the ps4 will not need internet connectivity at all, so games cannot require key registration. source [eurogamer.net]

Re:Sony removes features (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978617)

That would be fine except that Sony has shown that they are OK with removing features later, as they did with OtherOS and several others.

Was the removal of the OtherOS feature even that bad thing? Running Linux on the PS3 was a silly R&D test anyway. You couldn't fully utilize the Cell processor and the GPU under Linux anyway. You were insane to buy PS3 to bet on running Linux on it.

Until it doesn't (3, Insightful)

MeNeXT (200840) | about a year ago | (#42977899)

Remember Linux compatibility? Remember the PS3 initially was able to play PS2 games? Why would we believe anything that Sony says?

Re:Until it doesn't (1, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | about a year ago | (#42977969)

Because it doesn't follow from "Sony did this bad thing once" that "the malevolent theory I have about Sony is true".

Re:Until it doesn't (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978035)

Because it doesn't follow from "Sony did this bad thing once" that "the malevolent theory I have about Sony is true".

...except "bad thing" and Sony is not limited to "once".

Re:Until it doesn't (2)

Legion303 (97901) | about a year ago | (#42978207)

But "I'm starting to notice a pattern here" DOES follow from "Sony keeps doing bad things every chance it gets."

Re:Until it doesn't (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978249)

Sony did bad things multiple things multiple times and continues to do so if you believe anything they say you are a mug simple as.

Re:Until it doesn't (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#42978291)

Because it doesn't follow from "Sony did this bad thing once" that "the malevolent theory I have about Sony is true".

Does it follow from "Sony regularly treats its customers like criminals and/or crap" that "Sony will take advantage of gamers en masse again"? I think it does.

Re:Until it doesn't (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978747)

If someone rapes you in the ass it doesn't logically follow that they will rape you in the ass a second time, but you would be a fool to drop your trousers in their company.

Re:Until it doesn't (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977973)

Because they want to own the Chinese market. They're going to raise the ban on consoles, and that market will be pure profit if they manage to gain access.

DRM and other stuff like it, including ban on second-hand games only work in first world countries where gamers have more money than sense.

Re:Until it doesn't (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978529)

They never removed the damn ability to play PS2 games. That is a completely different thing.

They had hardware to play PS2 games in the PS3. They removed it from newer models, but the older ones can still play quite happily.

Did he say "play used games FOR FREE" ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977901)

Because Sony could as well allow playing used games only after you have payed some fee to have the game's license tied to your online account. Because i assume you have to be always online for that thing too.

It's all poop.

Re:Did he say "play used games FOR FREE" ? (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about a year ago | (#42977945)

The context is, "if you buy a physical copy of a game, you expect it to work in whatever console you put it into", to which their answer was in the affirmative.

Yeah... and (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42977911)

The last playstation will let you run linux! See how well that worked out?

You are a DAMM FOOL if you believe anything sony says will be true longer than the 2 seconds it took them to say it.

But there are plenty of fools on the planet now. They'll all buy into sonys bullshit YET AGAIN. And then come whine when sony screws them over again and again.

You can't fix stupid.

Win for common sense. (1)

yakumo.unr (833476) | about a year ago | (#42977913)

Maybe they realized they actually wanted to sell a few. Certainly I believe there is a huge market who only buy because they think they'll sell the product on again later to get some money back, even if they never get actually round to it.
And those that do... many re-invest what they make back into buying newer games.
Thinking a £40+ item may be a dud that can never be resold is seriously going to put people off.
Those that are happy to wait months to years to buy second hand because a title is too expensive, will STILL wait months to years to buy the title when it's in the bargain bin instead of paying more for something they don't think is worth it to them.

I don't believe they'll ever stop piracy, and killing second hand sales would push those less well off to either forgo entirely and look to other forms of entertainment, or consider piracy. Either way, reducing sales.

Re:Win for common sense. (1)

Custard Horse (1527495) | about a year ago | (#42978271)

There are lots of people who have no intention of trading in games therefore the £40+ outlay is of no real concern as the money, once paid out, will never be recouped.

There is obviously a thriving market for trade-ins and it remains to be seen how much the market will be effected with one-key lock-ins.

I do wonder if Sony and Microsoft are in cahoots over the issue. If MS introduces a single use system, Sony can follow suit and each can cite the others use as a reasonable business model. Sony is understandably reluctant to introduce single-use model if MS chooses not to on the 720/Durango.

I think this is the last chance saloon for Sony - if it change direction at a later date they will really balls it up and will have nobody to blame but themselves.

Re:Win for common sense. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#42978899)

They are not in cahoots, they are competing. The first one to introduce such a system is taking a huge risk. If their competitor has any brains at all it would be the time to start advertising that you do not do that.

Even if you never buy a used game you likely rent games or have people over who bring a game with them. Me and my brother trade games via the mail for instance. No money changes hands.

PS4 not playing used games when Xbox720 does would mean the end of Sony having a console.

Online licences (1)

Kristian T. (3958) | about a year ago | (#42977961)

Of course this speaks nothing about the use of licences required to use an ever increasing part of the games, be it various forms of DLC, or even the ability to go online at all. If the new game comes with some such licence tied to PSN, which requires $10 or more to buy separately, that second hand copy might not seem as atractive anymore.

Re:Online licences (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about a year ago | (#42977989)

No doubt "online codes" will continue into the next gen. In hindisight it's obvious that Sony's patent was about removing the code-entry step in favour of just ticking a box.

Cue The Onion (4, Funny)

thereitis (2355426) | about a year ago | (#42977991)

(the onion theme plays)
Breaking news on the Sony Playstation 4. A Sony Rep says it will actually be used to play games. While the main focus of the next generation of consoles has been on selling people more and more content and locking out features, an expert on the new platform says there is still room for gamers. "We're listening to our customers and hearing that they mainly just want to play games. We're seriously considering it for the Playstation 4."

Not completely surprising. (4, Insightful)

gallondr00nk (868673) | about a year ago | (#42978007)

I suspect Sony really don't want to withstand another volley of terrible publicity. I also doubt that they want to drag the whole issue through a court, which would almost certainly happen.

The current rules seem to be ill defined. Gamers technically own the games, but are at the whim of the PS Network. This gives Sony enormous power over defining what "ownership" actually means.

Prohibiting second hand games formally now would jeopardize the console sales. Doing it gradually or suddenly (like with Linux on the PS3) a year or two down the line by way of PS Network T&C changes would be far safer for them.

read between the lines. (5, Insightful)

Truekaiser (724672) | about a year ago | (#42978021)

Don't pay attention to what he says, but what he doesn't. Sure it will play used games, he did not say what you have to do to play them. They might require you to sign into playstation network and pay an unlock fee which may or may not equal the price of the game as new for example. or you might be limited to X amount of hours to play a game that has been linked to a different console unit.

Re:read between the lines. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#42978303)

Ah yes, there is the comment I was looking for. Unless Sony explicitly comes out and says publicly that you will be able to play used games for the life of the console without paying a fee, this is just bullshit.

ALSO, I'd wait to see whether every game you care about has a bunch of first-buyer-only DLC before investing in a five hundred dollar lump of plastic.

Re:read between the lines. (2)

Xest (935314) | about a year ago | (#42978385)

...or he might actually just be telling the truth.

Because, you know, nothing would kill their new product faster than killing the used game market which many parents rely on to even justify buying their kids a console in the first place. Hell, even one of my DINKY friends refuses to buy games new because of the price.

Not to mention the fact that this will kill off various retailers dependent on used game profits that would bring the wrath of governments worldwide.

It's suicide for any company to kill used games on their consoles, if they do it's literally the end of their console business, so either way why worry? The consumer isn't going to really suffer, either the product will be fine, or the product will be dead and PC gaming will get a boost as a result.

Re:read between the lines. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#42978869)

I am part of a DINK which makes more than twice the median family income, we still will not buy full priced games more than once a year. That is for christmas and only if someone requested such a thing. $60 for a video game is nuts. Don't tell me that there is a 100 hours of gameplay and it's only $0.60 an hour, I don't have 100 hours to waste on a damn video game. Hell, I normally have a stack of bargin bin AAA games that are a couple years old I am still working on.

I understand that those with less income may actually be ok with paying more for what is for them cheap entertainment. For me it can well be very expensive entertainment if I never play more than 10 minutes of the thing.

Re:read between the lines. (1)

RivenAleem (1590553) | about a year ago | (#42978515)

He also doesn't point out the requirement to give your first born offspring either. While it may be prudent to make a point like this, doesn't make it true. We could make all sorts of claims about what he doesn't say.

It won't change things for me. Developers are still releasing games for PS2. PS3 is 'good enough' for most game playing enjoyment, and will be for a few more years. I foresee a very low uptake on the next gen of consoles, atleast right away. Lots of people will be playing PS3 games, and swapping selling them for a long time until the PS4 catalogue fleshes out. Especially if there is no backward compatibility.

Re:read between the lines. (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#42978939)

Yeah, a lot of folks will do what I do. The PS3 coming out meant I had a chance to get PS2 games cheap. I must have 100 of them now. The PS4 coming out should do the same thing to the PS3. The best time to own a console is right at the end of its life. Largest library, lowest cost games, cheap to replace if the unit dies and all the known bugs worked out.

Will New Games Be Used? (2)

mx+b (2078162) | about a year ago | (#42978835)

My suspicion is that yes it will play used games. Because old console games (developed before this year, let's say) had no way of being identified, you can't tell if the game is used or not. So sure, they will allow that so your old library of games still works. Why give themselves bad press when there's no resolution to it.

But newly developed games? They will come with activation codes that prevent resale. So PS3 used games, ok, but PS4 exclusives will not allow it going into the future.

Sad... (4, Insightful)

jonr (1130) | about a year ago | (#42978031)

It's sad that it is news when corporation announces that they are going to treat their customer nicely...

Re:Sad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978195)

It wasn't an announcement, it was given as an answer to a question

Re:Sad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978627)

Question: Hey Bill Gates, do you plan to murder everybody horribly and do vile things to their children?
Answer: Why, no, I most certainly won't do such a thing
>You're horrible, go die!
Answering an accusation isn't a bad thing.

The second hand market is a problem, but it is better fixed with changing the price of games to half of their current value, or lowering it progressively to that value over time.
This will do several things:
1) Allow more people to buy new games. Nobody wants used games, they do it out of necessity.
2) more people keep their games they bought.
3) allow those people who already buy new games to buy even more new games.
4) bring more people in to more hardcore gaming since they see it is much cheaper to buy games.
5) the industry grows.
6) will allow prices to drop even further as it grows larger.
How can they not see this? Who the hell do they hire?

It is already working on Steam. And now Valve are making a console. I hope it causes a price shift. It won't because I know Valve will screw it up.
Humble Indie Bundle, Indie Royale and similar sites are a godsend to indie groups as well. Most indie devs would be lucky to make the money they do on those sites in a 2 years from a single game.

Instead, the industry is currently on this path.
1) people are buying more used games than new.
2) devs dying
3) blame piracy
4) add DRM
5) DRM fails, piracy still blamed
6) HEY, wait a minute, used sales are what is killing us. (we are too lazy to deal with pirates now)
7) make some noise over this, nothing happens anyway
8) games industry is still slowly dying
9) shops are also dying despite used sales because people are leaving to the casual games market because it is so much cheaper
10) crash.

Re:Sad... (1)

tehcyder (746570) | about a year ago | (#42979013)

It's sad that it is news when corporation announces that they are going to treat their customer nicely...

The thing is, since Sony don't have a monopoly on air or water or anything, you can always just not buy Sony products if you're that offended by them.

Of course you can play used games, but (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978119)

you will have to pay for an online pass

Vita (2)

puddingebola (2036796) | about a year ago | (#42978139)

What about the Vita model where only new games contain all the game content via online services and used games don't have access to it? I would expect Sony to do the same with the PS4.

Re:Vita (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978543)

not Sony, game developers, don't you know the XBox 360 have online passes and first day DLCs?. It something bad everyone is doing

Of course it will play used games... (1)

darthyoshiboy (1086569) | about a year ago | (#42978227)

Once you've paid the publisher for the privilege of owning your used copy by way of a large secondary fee.

from a Japanese perspective (4, Interesting)

darkitecture (627408) | about a year ago | (#42978229)

to be honest, from a person who has lived in Japan a very long time, this really doesn't come as too much of a surprise. There are dozens of VERY big chains and thousands upon thousands of stores both parts of chains and independently owned in Japan that exist almost solely for the exchange of used games. Some deal exclusively in games, most usually mix in some used books/manga/anime/magazines/DVDs/clothes but games and manga would definitely be their meat and potatoes if simple floorspace allocation is anything to go by. If there was any possibility that this was even remotely true, there's a very, very large population of Japanese people who would have already risen up as one angry mob complete with the Japanese modern day equivalent of torches and pitchforks and fucking SLAYED Sony.

Re:from a Japanese perspective (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978597)

This sounds right - my brief visits to Japan showed me that Japanese people take their games very, very seriously.

However, Sony should remember that globalization is making their domestic market less important than before. 127 million potential customers doesn't really compare with the strength of the US/Europe market. The PS3 sold 6.3 million Japanese consoles out of a worldwide total of 70 million.

Compare that to 21 million Japanese PS1s (out of 102 million worldwide) and 17 million SNESs (49 million worldwide).

It occurs to me that Sony have been thinking about the Japanese market a little too much - massive patch downloads and multiplayer latency are no problem for a geographically small country with amazing internet.

Or... not (4, Interesting)

guises (2423402) | about a year ago | (#42978285)

Engadget [engadget.com] says that the guy was uncharacteristically hesitant when he made this declaration, implying that it's not the simple games distribution mechanism that we're familiar with. They speculate that there may be a fee or something else involved, or another approval process. Needless to say, if a single player game requires an internet connection there's reason to be suspicious.

Re:Or... not (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978577)

and tomorrow, on a news about Valve, the Slashdot collective will praise how cool is Steam. If Sony try to kill second hand game reuse (sometimes it is not the action of selling it, only lending it to a friend or a family member) it is bad. but Steam is too

Re:Or... not (1)

RenHoek (101570) | about a year ago | (#42978679)

A look into the future: "You can play used games only the PS4... It's just that all of the game publishers use features to block this"

Consumers will be screwed on this, one way or the other. Blood from a stone after all.

Kind of too late to complain now (3, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | about a year ago | (#42978533)

Gamers sleep walked into this years ago when PCs started printing codes to unlock games either installed from disc or downloaded from the likes of steam. Try installing from your Half Life 2 disc on someone else's account and see how far you get.

Even if Microsoft / Sony start embedding the serial nrs onto the disc it's fundamentally no different than what happened already for years. It just means users don't have to type in the code.

What is more worrying is that there are numerous ways that the serial nr's activation status can be used / abused. For example, one game might decide to disable online without a refresh code which is semi reasonable (the person buying the game didn't pay for the servers that run the online portion). But what if games become glorified playable demos, or the game starts showing annoying interstitial adverts in second hand form unless you buy a refresh code? You can bet the likes of EA, Activision, Ubisoft are already salivating at the ways they can claw back cash from second hand titles and they'll go as far as the console vendors let them unless there are reasonable limits.

Re:Kind of too late to complain now (2)

Saffaya (702234) | about a year ago | (#42978699)

I can do that.
I can take my copy of Half-life 2 and lend it, resell it, do whatever I want with it.
The hint ?
It's not on the PC.

My X360 copy of Half-life 2 will still work when steam doesn't exist anymore.

When Valve started Steam and announced Half-Life 2 on Steam only, I politely refused. And I still do.
I like to own my games, not rent them.
Choose wisely.

new computer (1)

Outthere057 (566345) | about a year ago | (#42978559)

I already spent my next gen console money on a nice new computer. So no ps4 or xbox 720 for me. And the great thing is my computer plays games that I have had for years.

No. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978571)

Sony has lost the game.
I sold my PS3, and sticking with my decision. I have joined the PC master race, even if it means having to swallow GNU/Semen from GNU/Stallman.

Sent from my Windows 8 x86 battle station with NO start menu replacement installed.

I'm SO brave! Hopefully /r/ShitRedditSays hasen't infested Slashdot yet. If they have, then play me at Bubble Bobble, I will burst your femminism like I beat my mum at that stupid game since the early 90s.

Some history nuggets (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year ago | (#42978751)

Remember that the reason for Sony to initially have some (crappy) Linux support in PS3 was only to get around the game console tax in EU, as then the unit could be sold as a computer.

Another thing that is forgotten in the "Sony sucks" discussions that the early batch of PS3s had nasty overheating problems.

bull (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42978919)

shit.

even if the console "supports" it, there won't be any such thing when all the major publishers are switching to, or have already switched to, one-time-use serial numbers for both games and downloadable content -- using features built-in to the system by the console manufacturers to do it -- and tie those codes to a particular online account so they cannot be transferred or reused.

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