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The Internet Archive To Pay Salaries Partly In Bitcoin, Requests Donations

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the because-money-is-fungible dept.

Bitcoin 181

hypnosec writes "Bitcoin is gaining popularity among mainstream sites lately and the latest to adopt the digital currency as a medium of donations and payments is the Internet Archive. Ready to accept donation in the form of Bitcoin, the Internet Archive announced that it wants to do so to pay some part of employees' salaries, if they choose to, in Bitcoin. The Archive, known for its storage of digital documents (especially the previous version of webpages), is looking to start part salary payments in Bitcoin by April 2013 if everything goes well."

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Bitcoin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987773)

Please donate to our company so we can pay our employees! (With your Bitcoins)

Uses of BitCoin... (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987775)

So, basically, they're paying them in drugs. Coolio.

birst (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987781)

birst

I'd quit (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987787)

The day my employer tells me I'm getting paid in Itchy and Scratch money is the day I stop working for them.

Re:I'd quit (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987793)

I will work for any of these currencies [youtube.com] but not bit coin.

Re:I'd quit (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987801)

I'm amazed at how stupid people are.

Bitcoins can be converted to other real world currencies ya know?

My company accepts bitcoins and this is exactly what we do.

Re:I'd quit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987825)

You and your company are idiots.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987931)

Your missing out on $$$$$ by not accepting bitcoins.

Re:I'd quit (0, Troll)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987943)

No, he's not. Anyone with bitcoins knows that they need real money as well. So any bitloon would also have some other way to pay, or they aren't eating tonight.

Though does anyone else find it funny that this story is almost all ACs? What, all the people with an opinion on bitcoin are so cowardly they fear for their karma? Bitcoins are not at the point where anyone refusing to take them is missing out on anything.

Re:I'd quit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988015)

By this logic there is no money in niche markets. Catering to people with bitcoins brings in money from the underground sorts. I don't sell anything that is illegal or can't be bought with USD although I'm pretty confident most of my customers who pay in bitcoins aren't exactly operating legitimate businesses. What they don't turn into USD doesn't attract attention. My bitcoin customers make a lot more custom requests for encrypted setups and things of that nature. However as long as I'm not involved, the requests are legal, and we don't know what they are using the systems for there isn't a reason to decline there money. Its just as good as USD and I'm pretty confident we wouldn't have this money otherwise. We almost never got these sorts of requests for encryption until we started taking bitcoins.

Re:I'd quit (1, Insightful)

Darinbob (1142669) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988051)

It is not as good as USD because you can't use it to pay for anything except amongst a tiny group of people. Maybe it has value like any other barter item but so do collectible figurines, so good luck trying to pay your for your meal or mortgage with them.

Re:I'd quit (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988255)

Um no. You can exchange them for USD or just about any other currency of your choosing.

I've actually managed to pay ~25% of my expenses for the last two years with bitcoins, using them either directly or indirectly with a few smaller mining rigs.
I use them directly to pay my hosting, vpn, investments in silver, and the rest is converted to USD to pay off my car. (so yeah, you can pay your meal or mortgage no problem)

The amount of places accepting them is growing fast, with over 2000 merchants using the bitpay processor alone right now.

I find them great to use directly when I can. Payment is almost instant. Don't have to worry about credit card data. You have direct evidence of transaction via the blockchain, so the one time I actually did have an issue with a transaction (cart failed), it was easy to show a valid transaction did indeed occur and was quickly resolved.

But it's easy enough to convert to dollars too if you want.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988065)

So, you have convinced yourself that bitcoins will magically protect you from racketeering and accomplice charges.*

You should either invest heavily in lawyers or think this over again.

(* most likely he's some shit-level hosting selling spam pinksheets.)

Re:I'd quit (4, Interesting)

brokenin2 (103006) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988355)

I'm posting pseudonymously instead of anonymously.. Wow, I can really feel the difference.. Fear is overwhelming me.. Let me see.. If my karma drops, what exactly happens then? Oh yeah.. a number somewhere that doesn't really mean anything changes.

I have a fair chunk of change for my discretionary spending, but it's almost all in Bitcoin. Sure, I pay the electric bill in USD (for now) and buy the groceries that way, but there are plenty of things that I won't buy unless I can buy them with Bitcoin. They are missing out on *some* sales.. Maybe the number isn't very significant, but for the ease of setting it up, I don't see why you wouldn't accept them.

Now, the reason I keep a lot of my money in Bitcoin is because it is a superior currency. No two ways about it. People sit there and bitch and moan about a 1% tax hike here, or there, but then immediately turn right around and are completely oblivious to a 50% tax that just took 1/2 of all their wealth.. They don''t notice when this happens because China buys up all the extra money that the CB keeps printing, but I'll wager a guess that they'll notice one day, when China comes back over here and purchases the west coast using our own money.

Re:I'd quit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988397)

Now, the reason I keep a lot of my money in Bitcoin is because it is a superior currency.

Ha ha ha, yes! Just like your superior operating system (GNU/Linux). Why? It's OpenSores! That's why you like Nerdcoin. Now, would you kindly go fuck yourself?

Re:I'd quit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988603)

That's why you like Nerdcoin. Now, would you kindly go fuck yourself?

My fiat money is better than your fiat money! Because I said so!

Roll up! Roll up! (0)

dbIII (701233) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988417)

Remember folks, the more people that join the pyramid the more the "bitcoins" held by people like the above poster are worth. Think of that vested interest after reading about how wonderful these things are.

Re:Roll up! Roll up! (4, Informative)

Troed (102527) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988709)

the more people that join the pyramid the more the "bitcoins" held by people like the above poster are worth

No. During the last year and a half, when the value of a bitcoin went from $32 (at which price point I bought a few) down to just above $2 (at which price point I didn't manage to buy a few) and then back up to $30 again the number of bitcoin users has increased exponentially.

There's actually no correlation whatsoever between the number of bitcoin users and the price of a bitcoin, which could be seen as falsifying your statement.

On the other hand, it's well known that the bitcoin economy in no way functions as a pyramid or ponzi scheme: http://www.quora.com/Is-Bitcoin-a-ponzi-scheme [quora.com]

Re:I'd quit (3, Insightful)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987849)

Sure, but I'd prefer to not be paid in corn futures either, though those can be converted.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988049)

Nobody gets paid in commodity futures, unless you're married to the governor of Arkansas

Re:I'd quit (1, Interesting)

Mashiki (184564) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988381)

Why not? Right now you're looking at nearly a 35% gain if you were being paid now in corn future and selling them in 4 months. That's a hell of a turn around, that even beats the most aggressive and risky stock trading you can get the down and dirty in.

Re:I'd quit (1)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988665)

I don't think you understand how a futures contract works (or you're just wildly speculating). The futures price is not the price of the underlying asset -- it takes into account the appreciation of the underlying asset that is expected to occur over the life of the contract (and some adjustment for interest rates). So, the expected payout (ignoring interest rate effects) of the contract is $0.

Also (this is more a reply to the parent), futures contracts are "marked to market." You pay nothing to enter into one (although you'll need to have cash in your account). Each day money is added/removed to your account based on changes to the future price, so the value of the contract itself is zero. Hence, if someone pays you in futures, they've paid you nothing -- you may gain/lose money in the future due to fluctuations, but the expected value of those fluctuations is 0.

Re:I'd quit (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987989)

Not only that but you're earning alot of money has the price of bitcoin continues to climb.

I was paid 100BTC a month ago, that was worth $1500.

Today that $1500 has turned into $3000.

Anyone who would turn down bitcoin is a fool.

Re:I'd quit (4, Insightful)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988055)

If its value in Dollars can double in a month, it can half in a month.

Or put it another way, if you think it is going to continue to rise in value, would you sign a rental agreement payable in Bitcoin?

Re:I'd quit (-1, Troll)

GNious (953874) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988071)

Get the US to elect another member of the Bush family, and watch the USD drop like a rock..... In which case, don't get paid in USD.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988165)

Most liabilities of most people here are payable in the normal currency of the nation they live in. Therefore it makes sense to be paid in that currency. I don't really care if my nation's currency declines 20% against another, I can still pay my mortgage. If instead I'm being paid in Internet ScamBucks then every pay check comes with 100% FX risk.

Of course, that risk works both ways: because there are still new marks paying into bitcoin, you might get lucky. Why not take those bitcoin each month and put them on red?

Re:I'd quit (1)

egcagrac0 (1410377) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988617)

Why not take those bitcoin each month and put them on red?

Green pays better. (When it hits.)

Re:I'd quit (0)

Dan541 (1032000) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988091)

No, it is extremely unlikely that it would drop that dramatically. Similar to how Gold&Silver goes up and down, but always goes up in the long run.

Re:I'd quit (2)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988307)

Well it did fall dramatically following the problems with the MTGox exchange.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Dan541 (1032000) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988419)

Only on the MtGrox exchange and only for a few minutes. Hardly a crash.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988333)

Actually, If you look at the performance of bitcoins over the past four years since it's creation, although it does go through a bubble each year, the bubble is less dramatic each year, and it has consistently, and steadily, outperformed all commodities, stocks, and all other currencies year to year. Fiscal year performance of bitcoins has been a fairly consistent 200-300% every single year! How long will that go? Who knows, but they are just getting started with some huge boosts to usage over the past year.

Re:I'd quit (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988613)

The value of US dollars can also vary quite considerably. The problem is being paid in a different currency to the one that you spend money in. It's a bigger problem when they're not linked in some way. I live in the UK, but do a reasonable amount of work for companies in the USA. Currently one US dollar is worth about 66p. Earlier this year it was 63p. A few years ago, it was 46p and it went up to about 60p over a year. Euros have varied from 78p to 89p over this year. The UK economy is closely linked to both the EU and US economies, so these tend to be largely self-correcting: fluctuations in the value of one currency affects the others. The advantage of being paid in the one that you are paying for things in is that the cost of the things that you are buying changes quite slowly relative to your income. With Bitcoin, unless you are living in a community where everyone (including farmers and landlords) accepts Bitcoins there is no feedback between your income and your expenditure. When bitcoin crashes, there there will be no bailouts and the value of the bitcoins isn't insured. It's just like being paid in any other commodity or corporate stock: there may be a massive demand for tulips...

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988075)

Yeah, it would be really great to get paycheck that fluctuates +/- 50% on a weekly basis! What could possibly go wrong?!

You might want to think this over again. Actually forget it, I'm going to find some retarded computer nerds, time the market, and pay them in bitcoins.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Dan541 (1032000) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988099)

You're ignorance is why I'm making money off bitcoin and you're not.

Re:I'd quit (3, Funny)

mwvdlee (775178) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988127)

Your sure your not ignorant?

Re:I'd quit (1, Informative)

Dan541 (1032000) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988189)

Nope, I figured out a way to make money off bitcoin. Which is pretty cool considering it's practically money for nothing.

Re:I'd quit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988239)

Nope, I figured out a way to make money off bitcoin. Which is pretty cool considering it's practically money for nothing.

No, it is money for arbitrage. You are being rewarded for risk, which makes you a shrewd businessman if you realize it, or a fucking moron otherwise.

Re:I'd quit (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988637)

But you failed to figure out how not to get whooshed.

If you weren't ignorant, you'd know how to use an apostrophe.

Congratulations on making money off of wasting electricity, we sure do need more people doing that. Shitbag.

Re:I'd quit (2)

Darinbob (1142669) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988041)

If it's so easy, then the employer can pay in REAL money.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988731)

I don't understand how people consider Bitcoin "play" currency either. It holds REAL value and is actually even more valuable than the US Dollar....

Re:I'd quit (5, Informative)

trytoguess (875793) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987841)

Understandable. Luckily that's not what's happening here:

"Internet Archive announced that it wants to do so to pay some part of employees' salaries, if they choose to, in Bitcoin."

That's a direct line from the article the summary quoted. I do admit though, it's a rather inefficient sentence if you want to get a point across clearly.

Re:I'd quit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987993)

I like how all the hate on Bitcoins are Anonymous.

I bet that if there was some FOIA in the right direction we'd find out that people are being paid to hate on many topics, Bitcoin included.

I wonder why...?

Re:I'd quit (1, Interesting)

Great Big Bird (1751616) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987997)

Never would I want to get paid in Bitcoin. I am not anonymous. Bitcoin has benefits for sure, but there is too much uncertainty in the market for it to be worth this.

Re:I'd quit (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988081)

"uncertainty in the market" - it's exactly this reason why and these times when people turn to alternate currency, like gold, diamonds or Bitcoin.
Any currency based on national debt (which is what we currently are using) seems to be problematic in the long term. Bitcoin has it's own issues but dependance on un-elected and unbalanced federal reserve isn't one of them, which ironically was founded to ensure the stability of the financial system.
It's feature of being a "deflationary currency" is certainly a strong selling point when we're seeing the dollar tank verses energy and living expenses, and interest rates too low to make savings a good idea.

The best investment advice is "Buy Low, Sell High". The second best advices is "Diversify!". Bitcoin seems to be outpacing gold and other monetary metals in exchangeable value, and is designed to be worth more later as it grows in popularity (I would argue that it's already found success in multiple ways), and as it's not recognized as "money" or anything with intrinsic value - could arguably be given as salary without income tax. It certainly could be done without anyone being the wiser. Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's, I'd take a portion of my salary as Bitcoin in a heartbeat.

Corporations and the folks at the top have already gamed the government and financial systems beyond repair for themselves. It's time to start switching to a people's currency that's likely not possible to be gamed.

"I am not anonymous." - Great Big Bird

"I am Sparticus!" - Anonymous

Re:I'd quit (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988629)

"uncertainty in the market" - it's exactly this reason why and these times when people turn to alternate currency, like gold, diamonds or Bitcoin.

You are here using a cheap propaganda technique to conflate gold and diamonds, which have intrinsic value and actual scarcity (well, of gold) with Bitcoins which are an imaginary currency based on artificial scarcity which is based on wasting electricity.

Don't confuse exchange with speculation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988487)

Bitcoin has benefits for sure, but there is too much uncertainty in the market for it to be worth this.

"Uncertainty in the market" for bitcoin only matters to currency speculators, and they create nothing and provide no value for society. They're pure parasites and nothing else, so judging the value of bitcoin (or anything else) on the basis of how useful it is to parasites isn't sensible.

A volatile currency can serve as a medium of exchange perfectly adequately as long as you don't hoard it, neither for currency speculation nor as "savings". Always put your savings into non-ephemeral things like land or houses and you will do fine. A medium of exchange like bitcoin doesn't have to be the medium used for savings, despite the government preferring you to confuse the two entirely unrelated concepts.

Re:Don't confuse exchange with speculation (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988641)

Everyone who uses Bitcoin is a currency speculator. You can't buy everyday essentials with it, so you have to turn it back into money that your grocer accepts to do so. If you're keeping the bitcoins and not exchanging them for useful commodities (food, shelter, shiny toys, whatever), you're gambling that they will increase in value over time. The current situation with Bitcoin is that a large number of people are making the same gamble. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right up until the point when a large number of them decide to cash out. You might want to read up on the stock market in the late 1920s for a nice historical example of this happening...

On the other hand, if you're selling it immediately, then you're telling the market that you don't trust it as a long-term store of wealth and this contributes to the volatility. And if you don't think this is problematic, then consider what would happen if the value of your monthly, or even weekly, paycheque varied by 50% every week. Or even more. If you get paid on Friday, but on Thursday don't know whether you'll be paid $1000 or $500 (or $50), how financially secure will you be? How will it affect the rest of the economy if everyone has such variable incomes that they hoard some other store of value (e.g gold, land, or even US dollars) to hedge against a possible crash?

Re:Don't confuse exchange with speculation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988723)

If you're keeping the bitcoins and not exchanging them for useful commodities (food, shelter, shiny toys, whatever), you're gambling that they will increase in value over time.

That's what the parent said. Which is why you shouldn't hold onto them. Holding onto them would turn you into yet another speculating parasite.

On the other hand, if you're selling it immediately, then you're telling the market that you don't trust it as a long-term store of wealth and this contributes to the volatility.

Good. Making bitcoin into a long-term store of wealth would just fuel the parasites. Why would you want that? "The market" that you refer to is not the actual free market in goods and resources, but a community of parasites leeching from it. Making money from money doesn't actually create anything, but only drains value.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987875)

The day my employer tells me I'm getting paid in Itchy and Scratch money is the day I stop working for them.

Considering you can't read enough to see the "if they choose to" text, I'm sure they would be happy to let you go.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987877)

Funny to see all the luddites on here defending the greenback. You really trust helicopter Ben with your savings?

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987921)

trust the greenback or trust a digital currency used by a bunch of drug pushers... hmmm how about I choose c, none of the above. greenback is only slightly better than bit coins, but at least it is predictable in its value.

Re:I'd quit (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988087)

damn it, my drug pusher only takes greenbacks, not Bitcoin.

Re:I'd quit (2, Insightful)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987969)

No, I want to be paid in Euros. Despite all the US jokes about the Euro about to collapse (OMFG, one of 17 countries has a debt ratio worse than the US, the entire continent is about to collapse), the Euro is in much better shape than the US, where not only is the fed on the brink of collapse, but most of the states, and most citizens of those states as well.

What I can't figure out is the "fiat" loons here love bitcoin, despite it being the most fiat currency ever conceived (aside from joke coinage, like mining company chits and other worker abuses before unions saved us all, which are also defended by "fiat loons").

Re:I'd quit (2)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988057)

I would be quite happy to be paid in German Euros, but not Greek Euros which might end up being converted into Drachma.

Re:I'd quit (1)

ouranogrammi (2847535) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988185)

I am quite paranoid about my euros, but since the money circulates free on European Union there is no chance of discrimination between a Greek printed Euro and a German one...

Re:I'd quit (1)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988275)

Possibly. Greek Euros have a serial number beginning with a Y. German Euros have a serial number beginning with an X.
What I'm more concerned about is money in Euro bank accounts. If it is in a Greek bank account, even hsbc.gr which is actually registered with the Financial Services Authority in England under the same registration as my hsbc.co.uk account, it could get converted to Drachma.

Re:I'd quit (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988431)

Not as bad as Australian Euros, which could be converted to burgers when people get tired of horse (http://www.rootourism.com/fsheet28.htm).

Re:I'd quit (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988651)

There are not Greek Euros. The emergency plan for Greece leaving the Euro would be for every Euro to become (for example) 0.9 Euros and one Drachma. The total number of Euros in circulation would remain constant so the currency would (ignoring the lack of confidence that such a move would create) remain constant, but the Drachma would be effectively worthless, so everyone with money in Euros would lose approximately 10% of their savings. This probably wouldn't matter long-term, because the Greek economy would likely recover over the next couple of decades and so those Drachmas would be worth something again, but in the interim it would be a big problem. That's why no one really wants to see it happen.

The US can maintain a (mostly) stable currency because they have a federal taxation system that moves money from the wealthy states to the poorer ones[1]. The EU doesn't have such a mechanism, which means that the money flows from the weaker economies to the poorer ones with not reset mechanism.

[1] For some reason, the people in the poorer states consistently vote for people who want to end this.

Re:I'd quit (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988427)

What I can't figure out is the "fiat" loons here love bitcoin

That's how they try to prove it's a currency instead of a ponzi to swap.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988589)

Bitcoin is completely voluntary and its value is driven purely by supply and demand. That's pretty much the opposite of "fiat" which means "by decree" ("Fiat lux" = "Let there be light"); the value of fiat money is driven by government, law, and ultimately the threat of violence.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988647)

Bitcoin is not a currency, fiat or otherwise. It is a commodity pretending to be a currency.

Accepting salary as a commodity is insane, as there would be a capital gain/loss every time you spent it (assuming you convert it to a currency in order to spend it)

Re:I'd quit (1)

HJED (1304957) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987995)

It does say they are offering it as an option, not requiring their employes to take it.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988031)

It makes for one less step when they want to buy their drugs.

Been There, Done That (1)

billstewart (78916) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988045)

I spent a decade or so as a systems engineering consultant supporting a group of sales people. Sales people generally experience the world differently than engineers, and sales managers do lots of different things that they think will motivate them to sell lots of stuff, compensating them in often rapidly and randomly changing mixtures of salary, commission, bonuses, recognition programs, plaques, cheap trinkets, expensive trinkets, travel, whatever. Most of those years the people supporting them got similar pay programs (usually more salary, less commission.) Yay, one year they gave us iPods, after I already had one!

For probably five years about 5% of my pay (from the "bonus" column, so it varied depending on how sales were doing) was in [BRAND NAME REDACTED] Points, which could be used for overpriced "luxury" consumer goods or for a limited number of stores, most of which I didn't shop at, using a sort of debit card that most places didn't take. Borders Books (so I bought a few more hardbacks than I would have, but "free books" was the only thing that made it feel like a perk), some clothing stores, Home Depot (but not during the years I was buying much there). They did cover some hotel chains, but mostly not useful ones for where I was traveling. Eventually I needed a new mattress, and the card worked at Macy's which was having a mattress sale, so I burned most of the balance on that, which left me a few hundred dollars that mostly went to books and coffee at the bookstore.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988385)

The day my employer tells me I'm getting paid in Itchy and Scratch money is the day I stop working for them.

What do they pay you with now? Magnetic pulses sent over a wire somewhere?

Re:I'd quit (2)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988657)

I would imagine that they pay him with tokens that the US government, promises to accept in exchange for taxes, and which oil-producing counties promise to accept in exchange for oil, guaranteeing a fairly large medium-to-long-term demand.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988473)

Watch the news, if people recognized what passes for money these days they would understand that it's all "itchy and scratch"

Every currency and every commodity is a managed 'bubble' market that gets farmed, grown and collapsed to the time-table of someone who isn't you at the expense of anyone and their pension fund that needs to take a long term position in the market. And thats just when the system works. When it breaks you get to keep all the broken parts and they walk away with what remains and can be described as an asset, get liquidity from taxes only you pay and start the same game with the same house rules and then still can't resist cheating (LIBOR)

You should quit.

Re:I'd quit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988699)

Bad news for you. If you check out the Federal Reserve Act, you've been working for monopoly money your whole life (assuming you live in the US. It's a similar situation elsewhere though). The only thing that gives the USD any value at all is that the government will accept it for paying taxes.

Quantum Computing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987799)

Will destroy bitcoins.

Re:Quantum Computing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987811)

And until it does bitcoins are worth something. They are a good currency for trading. Like the US dollar it will probably collapse. However until then it's a means of exchanging services and goods. I don't exactly invest in the US dollar. I invest in businesses, goods, and services. The US dollar is just a means of making trade easier. If your investing in the US dollar your pretty damn stupid. The US dollar is losing value due to inflation. If you want to maintain or make money you invest it somewhere.

Re:Quantum Computing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987851)

The U.S Dollar is backed by the military! Bitcoin is backed by "economic terrorist"!

Re:Quantum Computing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987945)

That may be true....

I still wouldn't invest in the US dollar and bitcoins works just as well as an exchange medium as the US dollar. That said I wouldn't want to hold either for very long.

Re:Quantum Computing (2)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988135)

The U.S Dollar is backed by the military! Bitcoin is backed by "economic terrorist"!

Ultimately, the *only* thing backing a currency is the confidence of those who use it.

Re:Quantum Computing (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988643)

Ultimately, the *only* thing backing a currency is the confidence of those who use it.

Almost. It's the confidence of those who might use it.

Re:Quantum Computing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988141)

- Bitcoin is backed by "economic terrorist"!

No - Bitcoin isn't backed by anyone.
This is why it's interesting - no one owns it. It's the strongest open-source currency out there.

Re:Quantum Computing (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988209)

This is a good argument.

One one hand, the US Dollar is backed by permanent institutions with enormous power and interest in self-preservation.

On the other hand, Bitcoin is backed by computer nerds and drug-dealers who could get bored tomorrow and quit to play WoW & masturbate.

Hmmmmm.....

Re:Quantum Computing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988113)

Quantum Computing will likely destroy all banking.

As soon as you can easily break current encryption systems used to secure credit card transactions, online commerce, etc. all digital trust systems could go up in smoke.
We ether all get to have quantum computers and switch to quantum banking (or quantum Bitcoin 2), or go back to the barter system like used before money, or switch to a feudal slave society that doesn't need money (unfortunately this last option seems to be the most probable). A lawless digital free society would be the short term solution, but I doubt that would last long before the folks with the most guns wins.

Re:Quantum Computing (1)

Troed (102527) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988717)

Only if you don't understand the difference between asymmetric and symmetric crypto.

I pay employees partly in high quality scrap steal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987809)

They take the steal to the scrap yard and get dollars. If any *stupid* people here get paid in bits and don't want them please send them my way. You clearly haven't seen the business opportunity here. It's not just illegitimate businesses who can profit off accepting bitcoins.While drug dealers have incentive to accept coin so do legitimate businesses. There is a significant underground economy which needs to cash out to start. If your company doesn't accept them mine will. And guess whose going to make the money then!

Re:I pay employees partly in high quality scrap st (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987813)

Your business involves working with steel, but you don't know how to spell it? How's business?

Re:I pay employees partly in high quality scrap st (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987819)

I think what he means is that he steals scrap metal to make the company payroll, business isn't doing so well on account of his poor spelling.

Re:I pay employees partly in high quality scrap st (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987847)

Dear Sir:

I have been requested by the Nigerian National Steal Company to contact you for assistance in resolving a matter. The Nigerian National Steal Company has recently concluded a large number of contracts for scrap steal exploration in the sub-Sahara region. The contracts have immediately produced moneys equaling BTC40,000,000. The Nigerian National Steal Company is desirous of scrap steal exploration in other parts of the world, however, because of certain regulations of the Nigerian Government, it is unable to move these funds to another region.

You assistance is requested as a non-Nigerian citizen to assist the Nigerian National Steal Company, and also the Central Bank of Nigeria, in moving these funds out of Nigeria. If the funds can be transferred to your name, in your United States account, then you can forward the funds as directed by the Nigerian National Steal Company. In exchange for your accommodating services, the Nigerian National Steal Company would agree to allow you to retain 10%, or BTC4 million of this amount.

However, to be a legitimate transferee of these moneys according to Nigerian law, you must presently be a depositor of at least BTC100,000 in a Nigerian bank which is regulated by the Central Bank of Nigeria.

If it will be possible for you to assist us, we would be most grateful. We suggest that you meet with us in person in Lagos, and that during your visit I introduce you to the representatives of the Nigerian National Steal Company, as well as with certain officials of the Central Bank of Nigeria.

Yours truly,

Prince Anonymous Coward

tax evasion? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987823)

how should this be taxed?

Re:tax evasion? (1)

Merls the Sneaky (1031058) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987859)

Not at all. Governments can get their taxes when people cash out to spend it on goods, services or they can then count it as income. I doubt the government will be accepting bitcoins as a legitimate way to pay your taxes either.

Re:tax evasion? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987873)

The same way everybody else does:
- Employer says "I'm paying this much in cash/Bitcoins which has a value of $X USD."
- Employer deducts taxes
- Employee says "I just got paid this much in cash/Bitcoins which has a value of $X USD."
- Employee files taxes.

WOW THIS POST DESERVES A DOCTORATE IN ECONOMICS

Re:tax evasion? (1)

putaro (235078) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987915)

Consider yourself the proud recipient of a Piled Higher and Deeper.

Re:tax evasion? (1)

Miamicanes (730264) | about a year and a half ago | (#42987937)

>How should this be taxed?

Easy. If salaries are pegged to the Bitcoin equivalent of some US Dollar value, their taxable salary is that dollar value. If they literally have a stable salary denominated in Bitcoins that doesn't change when Bitcoin's value does, handle it the same way you'd handle the salary of someone who lives in the US and works remotely for a European company & gets paid in Euros.

Re:tax evasion? (1)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988679)

Except that the exchange rate for Bitcoin may not be as well established as other currencies (I don't know that for sure, but it seems a reasonable guess), making it harder for your employer to defend the amount they paid during an audit.

Re:tax evasion? (1)

Xugumad (39311) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988383)

The same way you tax payments in any other non-USD currency.

Nerdcoin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42987933)

Who's really pushing this? Fosstards? Ron Paul worshipers? Libertarians? Unemployed geeks?

Sea Monkey Money (1)

guttentag (313541) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988001)

If they are interested in experimenting with paying their employees in Bitcoin, they should use real dollars to buy Bitcoin. If they can't manage converting dollars into Bitcoin, how are their employees supposed to manage buying goods and services with it? What are your options for paying rent or property taxes with Bitcoin? Or looked at another way, if they are so convinced that Bitcoin is a valid currency, perhaps the experiment should be to accept Bitcoin as a donation and convert it to local currencies with which their employees are normally paid. If they are consistently able to do so, then look at paying them in Bitcoin. Or bottle caps – wait, scratch that... Bottle caps are real physical objects. Or sea monkeys.

Re:Sea Monkey Money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988133)

Are their employees all local , or do many work remote in different countries? I've heard of a few places that deal with many contracted employees of different countries that began to offer paying in bitcoins, do to much lower currency exchange fees when using bitcoins. As a result of the savings the employer is able to pay them a bit extra to help compensate for bitcoins fluctuations in value.

       

They forgot the first rule of Bitcoin: (2)

Compaqt (1758360) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988025)

Don't talk about BitCoin!

Re:They forgot the first rule of Bitcoin: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988621)

To this day I believe Satoshi is the only one that cared about this rule. He felt strongly that Wikileaks should not start accepting Bitcoin and he left the project shortly after Gavin accepted an invitation to present Bitcoin to the CIA.

genius (4, Insightful)

shentino (1139071) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988169)

Well that's a genius move to getting government attention.

Get bitcoin mixed up with payroll and the IRS is sure to take interest with regards to income taxes.

This is going to get interesting very fast.

Re:genius (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988413)

Probably not, and here's why: in most jurisdictions, there's already robust legislation in place to tax non-monetary payroll, "in kind" payments or other payment methods that don't involve the local currency. You're generally supposed to declare the dollar amount per payroll period and pay tax in dollars (for example).

E.g. your pay picking apples is $100 / month, which would usually be taxed at 30%, but your employer also allows you to take home as many B-grade apples as you like, which is valued at $40/month. Your total tax liability would be (100+40) * 30% = $42, so if taxes were collected at point of payroll you'd get $58 per month.

I'd imagine they'd account for bitcoin in exactly the same way, and the tax guys wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Re:genius (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988635)

Maybe they will begin accept BitCoin for payment as well.

You guessed wrong. (2)

DerekLyons (302214) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988719)

You think the IRS doesn't already have procedures for employees getting paid in foreign currencies, or scrip, or in kind, or other carriers of value or anything else not US dollars? (That's a rhetorical question, because they do have such procedures.)

Donations please (1)

slick7 (1703596) | about a year and a half ago | (#42988663)

I want to be paid in gold and silver, I am accepting all donations.

OK, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42988715)

I like the idea of bit coins, being an online currency that can be used anonymously, but honestly, I still haven't been able to figure out how to actually buy the damn things.
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