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Open Source Emoji Project Wants Money For Icons

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the and-your-weird-little-grimaces dept.

Communications 156

Kagetsuki writes "There's a project on KickStarter for a Free and Open set of emoji [the graphical emoticon glyph set which has a block reserved in Unicode]. Currently there are no full sets of Emoji that are completely free (as in beer and and freedom), so if this project gets funded it will be the first and only set of emoji that can, say, be distributed with FLOSS Linux/BSD/GNU systems. Not to mention anyone will be able to incorporate them into any project without any restrictive conditions." And lest you think emoji devoid of literary value, reader coondoggie points out that the Library of Congress has just welcomed (or at least allowed) onto its vaunted shelves an all-emoji version of Melville's Moby Dick, created with the help of translators working through Amazon's Mechanical Turk.

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I have another idea (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992293)

Can I pay money so that they don't do this project.

F**king emoticons.

Re:I have another idea (1)

cgimusic (2788705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992347)

xD

Re:I have another idea (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992821)

U+1F4A9 PILE OF POO

Re:I have another idea (3, Funny)

martin-boundary (547041) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993161)

F**king emoticons.

On the other hand, if you'd paid money for them to do this project, then you'd have more expressive emoticons than * to represent your abject fear and loathing of this whole emoticon nonsense.

Re:I have another idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42993921)

On the other, other hand, the chances I'll like this particular set of icons enough to pay for it is pretty slim. However, if it gains wide adoption I'll use them all the time. So I have no incentive whatever to pay for it, but they'll get the advertising if they release a free set.

Re:I have another idea (2)

c0lo (1497653) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994299)

F**king emoticons.

On the other hand, if you'd paid money for them to do this project, then you'd have more expressive emoticons than * to represent your abject fear and loathing of this whole emoticon nonsense.

Fat chance with /.'s UNICODE support - I lost hopes to see it in this life.

Re:I have another idea (0)

greggman (102198) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994087)

Fucking racist! You realize that much of the world uses emoji. Maybe you should consider the world doesn't revolve around your tiny limited use

Re:I have another idea (1)

Cerium (948827) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994229)

Uhh... So I'm really hoping this is a joke that sailed over my head, but...

How, exactly, is he a racist for not liking emoji and/or not seeing the same significance you do? Do you always react this way when someone doesn't like something you do? Your whole response confuses me.

Re:I have another idea (-1, Troll)

greggman (102198) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994287)

Emoji is a huge part of Japanese and Korean culture and has been for > 10 years since it was introduced. Saying "F**king Emoji" is effectively saying "F**cking Japanese and Koreans". Not supporting emoji is effectively telling Japanese and Koreans they can't use part of their alphabet.

i dont know WTF is this.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992305)

..therefore, it sounds entirely supportable.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992333)

It's Michael Cooney (coondoggie) trolling for clicks again.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992417)

I never realized that was his name. I honestly always just thought it was some racist user handle.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992451)

(same AC)
He pops up every once in a while with a flurry of submissions to his posts at NetworkWorld. I think of him as the logical Roland Piquapaille. Can't be bothered to check spelling of Roland's last name.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (1)

cgimusic (2788705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992367)

It is basically a copyright free set of all the "official" emoticons.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992413)

Are you shitting me? Are you telling me I'm not supposed to be using :D without a license? Or :P ?

Also, there are 800 "official" emoticons?

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992483)

Are you shitting me? Are you telling me I'm not supposed to be using :D without a license? Or :P ?

No, you can type :D all you want. You can even print and publish it in a typeface which you own the rights to use.

There are fonts that contain prettified versions of emoticons as single characters. None of them are free. This project wants to create a free typeface containing such glyphs.

Not impressed? Well, then that makes two of us.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992543)

Ah. Okay, so this isn't simply some images that are embedded in a client or wherever you want them to be, based on an interpretation of your typing an emoticon in actual ASCII -- this is an *actual font*. So . . . it's a variant of wingdings, but aimed at chatting?

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (3, Informative)

cgimusic (2788705) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992621)

Kind of. It goes beyond the scope of a usual font because the emoticons are actually images that can be displayed in full color but they can be manipulated like a character in regular text because they are stored as a Unicode character.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (4, Interesting)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992731)

This project wants to create a free typeface containing such glyphs.

Aw jeez. Maybe should pitch in and find these guys some jobs.

You want to support the free exchange of information online? Give your money to the EFF instead where it can do something worthwhile.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (1)

Nikker (749551) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993487)

I actually agree that this is a bit dumb but then I think, if we don't do this then some douche bag corporation will and find an equally dumb way to screw with everyone. I can just imagine Unicode font sets coming under fire because they come with some home brew Emoji that is similar to a Copyrighted one and they follow to sue everyone.

For this price it could just be a necessary evil to fund this.

Re:i dont know WTF is this.. (4, Funny)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992655)

Are you shitting me? Are you telling me I'm not supposed to be using :D without a license? Or :P ?

Yes. Please send us a check for $699 for a single-CPU license. Make checks payable to "Darl McBride".

Emoticons are already free and open source. (5, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992405)

Okay, I understand that I'm old and grumpy, but . . .

The point of emoticons are that they are simple ASCII text that convey basic emotional context. Emoji are not "emoticons". They're just tiny pictures. Are you seriously telling me that a tiny picture of a whale is in any way related to an emoticon? You know how you can tell these have no relation to emoticons? Because their ultimate stretch goal in the kickstarter is to create more than 800 of the little images and I'm pretty sure there aren't 800 emotions on which to base emoticons. Let's just call them "tiny little pictures for children to use on their phones and in forum messages to be obnoxious".

I'll help fund a kickstarter that aims to eradicate every form of chat of these annoying things. I used to have forums where people would use these constantly. Since I didn't include them by default, they used these idiotic services that let them embed emoticons on any website forum, as long as you also spammed their banner while you were doing it. I quickly wrote some code to filter all of that out, too.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992553)

I cannot possibly believe that there are not already free emoji, every chat program I've installed in ages has had them and many of those have been open source, GPL, etc. Where'd they get theirs? Also, there's no reason why this should cost money. It should definitely be crowdsourceable for free.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

sdsucks (1161899) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992977)

I am also surprised that there are no libre emoji images available. But there is nothing wrong with paying towards this.

Sure it *can* be crowdsourced, but what can't? Paying for things is okay sometimes too...

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992999)

Sure it *can* be crowdsourced, but what can't? Paying for things is okay sometimes too...

It's okay for you, and that's fine with me, but it's not okay for me unless there's a reason for it.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

sdsucks (1161899) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993041)

Well, as a Kickstarter project it's optional and you don't need to support it. :) Nor will I be.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

flimflammer (956759) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993251)

You've kind of touched on the whole point of Kickstarter, now haven't you? You aren't forced to back something you have no interest in.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993809)

Which is, of course, why this is great. Like a lot of crowd-funded projects, I think this is dumb. Most of that is probably just because I'm old and set in my ways and scared of everything new -- especially if it's something people under the age of thirty enjoy doing. It's probably evil and involves deviant sex and communism.

But as long as enough people do see enough value in it to chip in, it becomes a thing. Value for value and all that other Ayn Rand stuff. I don't see the point in this thing at all, but if enough other people dig it, there ya go. Hell, I'm going to go kick in a couple bucks right now, even though I will never use it and won't even ever check the kickstarter page about it again. Just because, well, why not? . . . (okay, I'm back -- just went and kicked in $5 as backer #29).

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (2)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993367)

You're talking about emoticons, not emoji. BTW the full emoji set includes just under 830 images, not 20 some yellow smiley faces.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993821)

The descriptions of emoji as I've just read (in the submission and elsewhere) basically say that they're graphical emoticons ("graphical emoticon glyph"). Emoticons, as far as I understand, are a purely textual representation of faces to convey emotion in the context of writing (and date back more than a century). It sounds like referring to them as emoticons (as everything I've read just after this article -- and including it) does may be very inaccurate.

Looking at some of the examples out there, it sounds like emoji are "tiny images", period? I mean, a coffee cup or a squid don't represent emotion or anything of any sort, so . . . they seem like a thing unto themselves.

Anyway, I don't see myself ever being in a situation where I would use this, but I kicked five bucks into your project out of respect. I'm easily pessimistic and critical of things, but I'm not against helping out a tiny bit even if I don't get them. :)

Good luck!

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994083)

I completely understand where you're coming. I chose to describe them relating to emoticons because that's what most people are familiar with and that's also basically what they were borne from. I'll try to clean up the description a bit - sorry for the confusion.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

TheSeatOfMyPants (2645007) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992849)

rabid anime fanboy + brony + valley girl with a severe squint + manic pixie dream girl = emoji ?

(All I know is that whenever I see an emoji, I automatically start to read the person's words with a strong valley girl accent in my mind.)

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42993125)

rabid anime fanboy + brony + valley girl with a severe squint + manic pixie dream girl = emoji ?

(All I know is that whenever I see an emoji, I automatically start to read the person's words with a strong valley girl accent in my mind.)

I was about to ask someone to explain to me at what point "emoticon" became corrupted into "emoji", and explain it in a way that DOESN'T boil down to "lol its japan so its better ne", but your description seems to both A) be most accurate description possible, and B) serve to dash my hopes of my request ever possibly being fulfilled.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993571)

Emoji is just from Japanese cell phone mail software. To save on space they gave each image a character code and stored the images on the device. This became a standard in a block of Unicode. Emoji are not just translations of symbols like ":)" to a smiley face, they each have their own character code like a font.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (3, Informative)

Ozoner (1406169) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992967)

> The point of emoticons are that they are simple ASCII text

And they date back even further. The Ascii ones were derived from the various Teleprinter emoticons (Baudot code, etc),
which in turn came from the Morse equivalents ("HI" for hilarity, 73, 88, etc).

The "boom boom" used in comedy shows, possibly came from the "dit dit" used by Morse operators for exactly the same purpose.

No doubt bored Semaphore operators invented their own variations as well.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993843)

By referring to it as ASCII text, I was just describing what they are now and that they're essentially unadorned regular text sets (and certainly not images). Maybe using ASCII was a little misleading in my comment. My understanding of emoticons, themselves, is that they're almost as old as the printing press.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

sdsucks (1161899) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992973)

Your previous comments indicate you didn't even know what Emoji is before this article, but yet now it is "annoying" to you? And you've resorted to ad hominem attacks against those that use them? "Children to use on their phones and in forum messages to be obnoxious"?

A picture can be worth a thousand words, and emoji is handy. I use it all the time and have a couple emoji domains registered that will someday make me filthy rich ;) (oh shit, does my emoticon annoy you? I suppose I should have added more sarcasm and ignored the wink to please you). Anyone who communicates with others via text frequently can appreciate the value of emoticons in trying to add emotion to a conversation. Surely you don't think all communication is verbal or read? Emoticons and Emoji are a great supplement to text based communication.

Okay, I understand that I'm old and grumpy, but . . .

Yeah, basically, and you seem to have spent a lot of time in this article complaining complaining about something "annoying" that you'd never even heard of before. Having a bad day are we?

I guess if Linux doesn't support Emoji and there is no free (libre) version of them, this is a good project. I very much appreciate the Emoji support that OSX and iOS have.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993261)

Why bother with emoji, though? Just use Chinese ideographs. They're the natural final progression of this idea, after all. Moreover, if you're just after basic emoticons, there's a Unicode range from 1F600 to 1F64F [unicode.org] .

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993581)

As linked and explained in the kickstarter there is a block of unicode specifically defined for emoji as transferred from the original emoji sets. Here's the list and the mapping: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode6.0%E3%81%AE%E6%90%BA%E5%B8%AF%E9%9B%BB%E8%A9%B1%E3%81%AE%E7%B5%B5%E6%96%87%E5%AD%97%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7 [wikipedia.org]

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993837)

As should be clear from my comment (I think), I said I was familiar with graphical faces representing the underlying emoticon, but had no idea they were called "emoji". Or that they (as I've since learned) apparently don't have much to do with emoticons at all (but unfortunately everything I've read this evening mentions them in relation to emoticons in the first sentence) and are really just lots of graphical glyphs of all kinds of things.

It'd be a bit like saying how dumb and annoying you think photos of people flat on their stomach on objects and in weird places is and then someone telling you "that's called planking" and then you responding "oh, then yeah -- playing is dumb and annoying".

I thought a thing was dumb and annoying, from my exposure to it over the last decade or more online. I found out it had a name. I then stated that the thing I've always thought was annoying is still annoying, but used the (I think) proper name for the thing which I found annoying.

And no, your emoticon doesn't annoy me, because it's an emoticon. If Slashdot had converted it into a giant animated winking smiling GIF, I would have been annoyed as fuck.

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

sdsucks (1161899) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993877)

As should be clear from my comment (I think), I said I was familiar with graphical faces representing the underlying emoticon, but had no idea they were called "emoji". Or that they (as I've since learned) apparently don't have much to do with emoticons at all (but unfortunately everything I've read this evening mentions them in relation to emoticons in the first sentence) and are really just lots of graphical glyphs of all kinds of things.

It'd be a bit like saying how dumb and annoying you think photos of people flat on their stomach on objects and in weird places is and then someone telling you "that's called planking" and then you responding "oh, then yeah -- playing is dumb and annoying".

I thought a thing was dumb and annoying, from my exposure to it over the last decade or more online. I found out it had a name. I then stated that the thing I've always thought was annoying is still annoying, but used the (I think) proper name for the thing which I found annoying.

And no, your emoticon doesn't annoy me, because it's an emoticon. If Slashdot had converted it into a giant animated winking smiling GIF, I would have been annoyed as fuck.

As should be clear from my comment (I think), I said I was familiar with graphical faces representing the underlying emoticon, but had no idea they were called "emoji".

Sorry, re-reading you comment I do agree. But most graphical emoticons are not Emoji, simply graphical emoticons. (IMO) The term Emoji explicitly refers to the standardized (somewhat) character set. As far as the whale & other non-emotional graphics go, who cares? It's a little fun. Text based communication is difficult, and anything that can improve that is great.

And no, your emoticon doesn't annoy me, because it's an emoticon. If Slashdot had converted it into a giant animated winking smiling GIF, I would have been annoyed as fuck.

Fair enough. If Slashdot supported Emoji I would have posted a flaming pile of shit. ;)

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

lxs (131946) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993311)

:sadclown: :hug:

Re:Emoticons are already free and open source. (1)

hcs_$reboot (1536101) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994079)

FYI DoCoMo Emoji [nttdocomo.co.jp]

Handy for some applications (1)

xaxa (988988) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994315)

I use Unicode (non-ISO-8859-1) characters in software I write.

When writing comments I stick to things I can easily type, i.e. characters accessible using the Compose key — essentially only arrow right/left, double angle brackets and bullet, , , , , . I think "childparent" is easier to read than "child->parent".

I also use Unicode in interfaces. I need a little warning symbol, it takes a few seconds to go to shapecatcher.net, draw the symbol, and paste it in [shapecatcher.com] : . Grepping my source code for Unicode, I've used tick and cross marks, 10 kinds of arrow, the handy "undo" symbol, a clock face ("wait"), and some shapes (triangles, squares). The alternative is a poorer interface, having to draw these things myself (and frequent image elements make HTML harder to read) or finding icons on the internet (© problems?).

(Oh look, Slashdot ate everything except © and —.)

Crazy (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992427)

They want 40$ per icon with the majority of elements reused between icons... Even if Emoji made sense as a thing (and I'm not convinced it does) their asking price is way to high.

Unicode Love (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992853)

I really quite like this project, but love the use [not overuse] of emotions I am actually quite taken with the example Emoji, the examples are all based on a circle [for a simple face] its true, but if you look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji [wikipedia.org] which covers Tansport/Maps/Symbols and Pictographs. I'm confident I could do a smiley face...but a Pine Decoration or Trumpet not so much. Personally I'd love this project this project to succeed simply because it contains the symbols hot beverage & shortcake.

How about competition. (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992901)

They want 40$ per icon

If that is really is low, you could undercut them. Kickstarter would be an incredibly safe way to do so.

Re:Crazy (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993315)

Actually we're charging $20 per emoji. A lot of the elements are not shared. The basic face set has elements shared and that's why it was used to make the samples - because we could do it quickly.

Re:Crazy (1)

Cerium (948827) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994267)

I didn't read the article or kickstarter very closely, so forgive me if you already addressed this.

The one thing I can't quite understand is that your goal is to make a bunch of little vectorized emoticons that are free to use. Many of these are based on things that already exist, but will be done with your own artistic styling (correct?).

That's all wonderful and whatever, but why does this project demand $50,000? What's stopping you from taking the week or two to fire these things out and just releasing them under the licensing model you claim you want them to be under?

I know for a fact many of us here have spent years of our lives on projects simply to fill gaps, make cool stuff or generally just make the internet|world|whatever a little better. So again I ask: why does this demand so much money? Why are you only releasing these things once you hit certain monetary goals? Doesn't that seem shitty to you? Because, no offense, it seems pretty shitty to me.

There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (3, Interesting)

pecosdave (536896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992623)

It's the Japanese.

The Japanese are incredible copyright grubbers. When they let lose their pictures of the moon, when they tried to recreate the Apollo pics, they had JAXA and NHK copyright notices on the pictures so big they actually detracted from the pictures. I've worked with documentation handed to me by Japanese clients that was so water-marked I could barely read the poorly written instructions contained on it.

The overall Japanese mindset is the opposite of the Free and Open Source community. If their own people would put the effort into making an actual Emoji set for their own language it would take less work to get others on-board with making these toy versions.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992805)

Fucking racist fuck. Go fuck your fucking racist fuck fuck face fuck asshole.
 
Burning in hell!

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (1)

pecosdave (536896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993213)

There's nothing racist about the actions of a culture bringing about the repercussions of those actions.

The incredibly racist [google.com] , it's part of the overall culture. There are people within the race that are not racist, but being racist is a cultural value in the overall national culture. It's not me making this observation. [debito.org] I am speaking of the overall culture, not the race [debito.org] . The race is an Asian person of Japanese person. The culture is the racist copyright grubbing one that I'm referring to.

If i used your logic every white person would be trailer trash, every black person would be a ghetto thug, and every Asian person would work on an assembly line and live in a sweat shop dorm.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (1)

pecosdave (536896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993233)

Sorry for all the stupid typos. Someone has a TV on next to me at high volume and it really throws my reply ability off.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42993801)

Fuck you you lying shit fuck fucking fuck retard fucker. Keep being the typical shitfuck American racist fucking fuck.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (1)

pecosdave (536896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993247)

How is this different than saying "American culture"?

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42993689)

There is a difference between saying it is a cultural norm and attributing it to a specific kind of person. It doesn't help that English doesn't distinquish some of these categories well, so when you say "Japanese" you can easily be referring to those of Japanese decent or those that are natives of Japan.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993385)

Actually he's kind right. Copyright stuff even up into the early 2000's was crazy here. Now with new laws and the uprise of OSS it's settled down to the point where it's probably better here than in the US.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (5, Informative)

yincrash (854885) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992889)

Actually, There is a free version courtesy of Google. Android has an ASL available version. preview image [amazonaws.com] and github link [github.com]

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (1)

pecosdave (536896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993221)

Sorry I missed that. The article suggesting such a thing didn't exist did sort of throw me off the scent. I would mod you informative if I could.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (3, Informative)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993359)

This is a glyph set, they are not full emoji. The difference is that these are a true font - the only information is outline and fill, they are not multi-colored images.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993355)

What you're saying is, thankfully, from an era past. It used to be this way but that's from old companies with old mindsets and old laws. Things have changed a lot, and there is a huge OSS movement here.

Re:There's a reason there isn't a Free Emoji. (2)

pecosdave (536896) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993391)

I'm glad you came in to say that.

I don't have a lot of current ties to Japan, and due to the language barrier and the fact English language news reports on the US, a little Canada, England, and maybe a few other places in Europe and leaves the rest of the world as a giant void it's really hard to keep up. When I'm digging through config files most email addresses I see are US, Germany, England or France.

I would love to see more Japanese influence on OSS. I absolutely love a lot of Japanese commercial products and I would like to see some of that quality and thought being put into OSS.

Well... partly this is true, it is very different (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994145)

If you follow Japanese culture as well as you can from the west, you notice a radically different approach to copyrights. Take "porn". The Disney corporation has cracked down on pornographic parodies of cultural icons it didn't even create. Meanwhile pornographic parody doujins can be sold openly and legally in Japan.

But within shows, I have noticed far less cross-over. The almost mandatory american sitcom episode where they do an old series seems to be missing from Japan. Or I simply never seen it but in Anime at least I get the feeling that in commercial production, it is not done to touch another show.

But the real reason you see little OSS from Japan in the west is the gigantic language barriers. The Japanese grasp of English is piss poor. So is the average Americans grasp of English but the Japanese are ashamed of it, so they tend online to either hide to avoid shaming themselves or seclude themselves in corners of the net and not come out.

And this is NOT limited to the Japanese. Try Europe, there are countries that are far more visible then others. England for its 60 million citizens, some of whom can speak English are not as visible on the net as say the Dutch, a far smaller country whose citizens grasp of proper English is truly shockingly bad (guess where I am from). But we are Dutch, we know we are the largest people in the world and it got nothing to do with our height or waist measurements so we hold our heads tall and don't give a shit. Don't know the difference between where and were? Fuck it, I am Dutch, have some weed and relax.

Add some country flag plugin to your bittorrent client and look at where people are connecting from. You can see that the number of users from a country have little to do with the size of said country.

But you have come accross some examples of websites from Japan that block access to your US IP? Yes... they exist... and the same in reverse BUT you would NEVER see them.

But remember, dear American, almost ALL your content sites, restrict access to foreigners. Netflix, Hulu, CNN, ABC etc etc all have popups "this content not available in your region". Who are the copyright grubbers again? But of course, an American would never ever see them. Do you know that "adult" content on ebay is restricted to the rest of the world despite the majority of the rest of the world havving less restrictive rules? Bet you didn't know if you are American because you never ran into it.

But you DO notice a Japanese seller on Ebay who refuses to ship outside Japan. But hey, I ran into sellers who refused to ship from Germany to Holland and we are right next door with the same currency.

Basically it is the old "white male never notices the existence of racism/sexism until affirmative action affects him".

Let us remember in which country centuries old folk stories are owned by a company that waited with the release of a movie so they wouldn't have to pay for the copyright but have themselves been instrumental in extending copyright into infinity and beyond. In which country parts of century old songs are copyrighted (5 golden rings) and in which singing "happy birthday" commands a royalty payment.

Copyright grubbers? I would mention something with a pot and a kettle but no doubt some Yank copyrighted it.

Getting paid to doodle (1)

SampleFish (2769857) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992627)

Everyone wants to get paid to doodle little icons. It's the American dream. I fully support this overt waste of time a resources.

/care (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992635)

Is there a KickStarter to make these go away?

Re:/care (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993407)

If you create one I will put a link in our project and we can compete.

Re:/care (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993851)

Wait, isn't not backing Kagetsuki's kickstarter project the same as making a kickstarter to "make them go away"? This sounds like a scam for you to just make money for yourself while accomplishing the same thing not giving you (or him) money would. :P

License (1, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992675)

Our licensing model will be the same as the Font Awesome project which is a combination of the SIL Open Font License, MIT License and the CC 3.0 License.

Seriously? You can't pick one simple license, its got to be 3?

You guys and you're "freedom". It does not mean what you think it does. More freedom pretty much explicitly requires LESS license, not more.

Software licenses are the opposite of freedom. They define a list of restrictions.

If you want it to be 'free', then just BSD license it (MIT is fine since its in your list) and fucking stop.

Multi-license crap is only for when you're trying to deal with some retarded license like GPL and its purpose built anti-compatibility/virus license being included in your project.

If you think you need three license options to define freedom you do not in any way understand the meaning of freedom and you're just warping it around to mean restrictions.

Re:License (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992745)

You guys and you're "freedom". It does not mean what you think it does. More freedom pretty much explicitly requires LESS license, not more.

licence, n - 1. a certificate, tag, document, etc, giving official permission to do something [reference.com]
Less licence = less permission given = less freedom

Software licenses are the opposite of freedom. They define a list of restrictions.

Copyright law defines restrictions, licences relax those restrictions to a greater or lesser extent.

Lets protect Apple from GPL :) (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992777)

If you want it to be 'free', then just BSD license it (MIT is fine since its in your list) and fucking stop.

Multi-license crap is only for when you're trying to deal with some retarded license like GPL and its purpose built anti-compatibility/virus license being included in your project.

How about you stop quoting Fear and Doubt, over a license that does not directly benefit your preferred mega-corporation. Its kind of sad. I'm glad BSD rescued Apple I do, but seriously its depressing, we all know why Apple choose BSD for their limited [often one way takes] from open source projects. The reality is GPL was designed to protect itself from the very abuse of the license you want, and I for one am grateful for that. Seriously Apple has enough cash, seriously there is no need for subterfuge any more.

Re:Lets protect Apple from GPL :) (1)

sdsucks (1161899) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992983)

What a skewed and fucked up view you have of the history of OSX.

Re:License (2)

jimshatt (1002452) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992823)

You guys and you're "freedom". It does not mean what you think it does.

I don't think that sentence means anything at all... unless you meant "your freedom" ;-). But anyway, the 3 licenses (in Font Awesome anyway) are for 3 different parts of the project and kinda make sense (being licenses specifically designed for these types of works).

Re:License (1)

game kid (805301) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993005)

I was less concerned about the quantity of licenses (if they want to value ubiquity over strict copyleft, I won't protest) so much as the vague "CC 3.0" license. The Font Awesome project itself [github.com] mentions CC BY 3.0 so I presume (and hope) they'll use that.

Re:License (3, Informative)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993325)

Three licenses because there's different ways to distribute it - as source (SVG, scripts), as images (heavy implied copyright) and as a font (f*ing insane restrictions because people who create fonts are evil bastards). The three licenses gets rid of the restrictions despite how you use it.

If there was one license that covered all coditions I would have used that.

Bloat (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992735)

Every so often something like this comes along to remind me of just how ridiculously bloated UTF-8 is. If you open up a character viewer and browse through the character sets you will quickly find a load of completely miscellaneous symbol sets that are restricted in use to very tiny niches. Wtf is the point? Who decided that just because UTF-8 can represent a large number of characters it should be filled with every character that's ever been used by more than 5 people?

Go on, explain to me why it's reasonable to use up character slots for parenthesized numbers and letters (0x2474-0x2487, 0x249c-0x24b5) or why you need multiple snowflake characters (0x2731-0x274b). It's just bloat that requires fonts to implement extra, useless symbols.

Restrict the standard to characters in officially recognized languages and provide escape sequences to switch to embeddable encodings for niche characters that most of us will never even see. It's meant to provide a universal character set for writing text in different languages, not serve as an anthropological archive of humankind's digital semiotics or a toolbox for people with too much time on their hands to try to be cute.

Someone press the reset button so we can start over without all of this extra crap. And then get off my lawn!

Another Mans Bloat (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992919)

is another mans treasure....II have finally found reasons for Unicode...the Backward N in Nine Inch Nails; The Lightning in AC/DC my MP3 collection is finally complete

Re:Another Mans Bloat (2)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993395)

Fun fact: The backwards N is a Cyrillic "i", it makes the "i" sound. So you are technically writing NII.

Re:Another Mans Bloat (1)

Drinking Bleach (975757) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993991)

We are the Knights who say NI!

Re:Another Mans Bloat (1)

Drinking Bleach (975757) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993997)

I forgot. Slashdot doesn't do Unicode :D

Re:Another Mans Bloat (1)

stoploss (2842505) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994227)

I forgot. Slashdot doesn't do Unicode :D

Slashdot Japan [slashdot.jp] has been UTF-8 for approximately a decade now. So, what's the excuse here?

Re:Bloat (1)

Pseudonym Authority (1591027) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993157)

Why? Because there are 2^21 codepoints and there is nothing better to do.

Also, I'd say it isn't bloated enough, based only on the clusterfuck that is CJK.

Re:Bloat (1)

RedHackTea (2779623) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993245)

True. And if we actually do discover life on other plants with different languages, well, we're screwed. I guess we'll have to move to UTF-64.

Re:Bloat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42993907)

You're welcome to use or create fonts that don't implement those glyphs. Just because they are defined doesn't mean you are required to use them.

Re:Bloat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42994133)

If each of us is a pretty and unique snowflake then obviously you need multiple snowflake characters to discuss our differences and how we ought to just all come together in peace and happiness. Just like the Unicode character set promotes universal communication and understanding between the nations of our planet. It is all the same ideology, you see.

Re:Bloat (1)

Matthias Wiesmann (221411) | about a year and a half ago | (#42994331)

If we hit the reset button, can we also fix ASCII? it is by no mean the minimal set most english speakers think it is.

Why do we need a character to represent to 'v' one after the other? You could write 'w' with to 'v' and handle the ligature where it should be handled, at display time. There are so few words in English with the sequence vv that it makes no sense to have the special case coded in the encoding.

Also could we handle the dots on the characters 'i' and 'j' like the diacriticals they are? there should be first the the dotless 'i' and 'j' and the some character to add the dots, like all other diacriticals. Also move out the currency symbols ($ and £), they can be represented as text (USD and GBP), no point in have silly symbols in there. Also remove BELL (11), having a symbol for a bell (2407) might be bloated, but having one for the sound of a bell is absurd.

By the way, why do we need different code points for upper and lower case? They are just variants of each other anyways

Unicode is certainly messy, but plain ASCII is not much better: the most precious 127 code points of utf-8 are basically wasted to display 32 characters and a bit of punctuation, that is pretty bloated for me, we are just used to it

What about autism? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#42992759)

I wonder if literary works with emoji glyphs in them such as the mentioned Moby Dick would be helpful to people or children with autism.

The best part of the scam... (4, Informative)

EETech1 (1179269) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992831)

How we'll use the funds

We're calculating work time at roughly $20 per work hour for Tohyama, which is lower than what we usually bill him at. Even then half of that rate will go to paying Scroll Ninja lead developer Iwakawa so he can continue working on Scroll Ninja... since we didn't get funded but want to continue anyway

So half of your money won't even go to the project!

Hows that a scam (1, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42992895)

So half of your money won't even go to the project!

That is not a scam that is business model [in fact its most business models]. My favourite example of this is Apple make no iPhones...not one; zero; zilch; nada. They get about 40% Net profit on their phones....Foxconn who do the building make 2% profit.

The reality is if they are not dependent on one stream of revenue...both projects are more likely to succeed.

Re:Hows that a scam (3, Insightful)

EETech1 (1179269) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993033)

If the project was desired it should have been able to get funded on it's own. To force it on an unrelated project to me seems dishonest.

I know we don't like it when Congress sneaks things in like that, and I know that if I spent half my work time or budget working on a project that was canceled that I just really wanted to see finished anyways, it wouldn't go over to well either.

The slippery ninja should be able to stand on it's own two feet, not ride on the back of something they feel might have a (better) chance of succeeding after it wasn't successful on it's own.

It could also cost them investors, and ruin their chance to get this project funded. The two are completely unrelated and someone who wants cute smileys might not want a previously failed ninja side scroller.

It also makes me wonder if they are paying them $10 an hour each or $20, and how much the icons really cost.

Is the source code or binary of the game going to be released for free as well, or are they going to sell it and make money off a project for a free product?

Cheers!

Ok your missing my point. (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993091)

If the project team has multiple projects, and its fixed costs can be shared amongst them great, if they manage to produce the final product below the cost of production great...that is profit its what kickstarter is about.

If you truly believe they are being dishonest [I personally believe what they are doing is a great idea] then to undercut them, is trivial.

I'm a little concerned that your talking about congress [they have one source of income you] and funding unrelated projects [hey they have multiple kickstarters]. Its you that looking dishonest.

There are quite a few serious potential pitfalls from running simultaneous projects at once for a small team, but you are not highlighting them simply demonising them.

Re:Ok your missing my point. (1)

EETech1 (1179269) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993163)

My comment about Congress was relating to how they put multiple things on the same bill so one gets snuck in with the other that is more popular.

I just think that a kickstarter should be about one project to be able to have the best chance at success for the investors, especially when the projects as unrelated as these two are.

Cheers

Re:Hows that a scam (1, Informative)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993535)

Scroll Ninja is open source (source available on github) and we believe it failed because we didn't build up enough PR - and part of that is because we didn't have enough of it completed to show off. We'll be re-launching it but we want to have it more completed before re-launch. Figuring doing in OSS project for a flat rate would be something people would approve of we did this.

You are correct, the rate will be roughly $10 an hour for each of them. Consider that this is well below market rate and that there will not be any residual profits off of the emoji.

We are trying to be honest in how we will spend the money and that's why we wrote exactly how we would use it. Would you rather we said "hey, we're spending all the money just to pay Tohyama to make these" than "we're going to give everyone something for free and in exchange we're trying to cost-effectively build ourselves a future". Either way you're getting high quality graphics for below market rate.

Re:Hows that a scam (1)

EETech1 (1179269) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993111)

If Apple was going to take half the cost of your itoy (or perhaps double the cost of it so they could make the Apple Lisa the success it should have been, would their investors be all for it?

Things fail for a reason.

Diversify (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993235)

If Apple was going to take half the cost of your itoy (or perhaps double the cost of it so they could make the Apple Lisa the success it should have been, would their investors be all for it?

Things fail for a reason.

Your quote is Ironic for a couple of reasons, Even Apple has a diverse portfolio [iPod, IPhone, IPad, Advertising, Selling Content, Selling Search Defaults, OSX [other software], iMac], but its investors have wiped 35% of its value in the last 6 Months because its too reliant on its iPhone.

Re:The best part of the scam... (2)

flimflammer (956759) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993319)

Scam? Care to elaborate on how this is a scam? They openly state that this is their plan and it's not even hidden in fine print.

If you go to a store and someone is selling a new product, tells you the cost, but mentions that half the price of the product is going towards another product he's developing -- is that a scam? Or is that just business in a nutshell?

Do you honestly think when video game companies make money on games, all that money goes towards patching bugs, creating DLC, or other ongoing maintenance (MMOs)? Because you would hilariously wrong.

Re:The best part of the scam... (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993339)

Creator of the project here, and that is correct. Please consider that we won't be selling or profiting from this afterward, and that $10 an hour for a skilled and trained artist is a very low rate. We're scraping by right now, we want a future, and this way we help open source and the community at large.

Re:The best part of the scam... (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993863)

But they're explaining that in the project, itself. So what's the scam?

Haven't we been here before? (1)

captjc (453680) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993499)

1990 called, It wants it's Wingdings back.

Good Project (1)

SnappyTech (2809279) | about a year and a half ago | (#42993919)

Android does not appear to have a standard set of emoji, which is what prevented my wife and I from switching from iPhone to Android. We enjoy texting those funny little pics to each other, which are quickly accessed from the keyboard. Rather than responding "K" I can send a face blowing a kiss, or something equally charming. It would be great to be able to text the same exact icon from any device. The creator of this project knows it will be appreciated by many in the future if all devices can standardize on a common set of emoji.
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