Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Islamists In Bangladesh Demand Murder of More Bloggers

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the maybe-everybody-could-just-chill-out-for-a-bit dept.

Communications 389

An anonymous reader writes "Days after the killing of leftist blogger Thaba Baba, mosques throughout Bangladesh called for a popular uprising to demand the killing of other bloggers who had held a rally calling for the death of Jama'at-e-Islami leaders convicted of war crimes. This happens in an atmosphere of ongoing tension between Left and Right, with the leftist government threatening to outlaw rightist parties while the right uses violence to quiet selected enemies."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Killing leftists prevents more killings. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001847)

I don't want to ever endorse violence, but as Machiavellian, I recognize it will always be with us.

The fact is that leftist regimes are unstable. They start as liberal democracies, and end up totalitarian, because leftism is an apocalyptic ideology.

Killing a leftist blogger now may seem cruel, but it may save millions and the life of a culture later on.

Re:Killing leftists prevents more killings. (1, Flamebait)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001857)

Yeah, who knew WMD really meant words of mass destruction. No wonder we didn't find any in Iraq, we weren't looking in the libraries.

Re:Killing leftists prevents more killings. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001895)

And what do you think Islamists are?
They are totalitarians--wanting to control all aspects of life--and further "left" than these leftists. Islamists are the antipathy of "right" or "conservative".
When a so-called "right" group or "conservative" group starts wanting to control all aspects of life, they have reversed course and become the "left"/leftists/totalitarians.
It seems that most folks don't understand this--or that Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun types are totalitarians, that is, leftists.

Re:Killing leftists prevents more killings. (5, Insightful)

Razgorov Prikazka (1699498) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002429)

>> And what do you think Islamists are?

An answer then... because you asked so politely...

At my school they always told me that these muslim people are followers of the religion of love, peace and respect. And that any misconduct of that group could, and SHOULD, be played down with either:
  - other religions are violent as well, look at the crusaders, the IRA, abortion-clinic-arsonists, the KKK. (Funny that they never mentioned Sikh / Hindu / other religions huh?)
  - Those people 'lost' their religion, so any killings have NOTHING to do with islam.

Now, years later I know better.
9/11, 3000 deaths, by Saudi Arabian muslims.
2002 bomblast in Bali (Indonesia), 200 killed by muslims
2004 muslims killed 250 schoolkids in Beslan (Russia)
2004 muslims blew up 190 people in Madrid (yurp)
7/7 London, 52 killed by... wait for it... muslims
2008 muslims the Mumbai (India) blast killed 160 people.
2013 muslims murdered 13 people in Hyderabad (India, last week)

That totals 3,865 of only this horrendously light weight list. There are thousands of smaller cases like the girl that was shot in the face (by muslims) because she wanted to be educated. Or that (Christian) girl with a little mental handicap that was accused of burning pages of a koran and was almost killed by the people in the neighbourhood. The list could be far more elaborate. Nevertheless I heard about Breivik, and yes people are killed by white-power groups and all... but that is like saying that a paper plane is equal to a 747 because they both fly.

To me things are clear, this religion will never stop until either the last muslim is dead or the whole world is muslim.

Re:Killing leftists prevents more killings. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001923)

Killing anyone for their ideological or political positions often results in retaliatory violence.

Calling for the killing of extremists for war crimes wouldn't go unnoticed or unpunished. If these individuals are willing to kill the masses surely one more won't be too much of a burden. It's not surprising that calling for the execution of anyone of any party - especially if they are in postions of power - resulted in this "preemptive" death.

Killing people for their words isn't right, but it's been going on since the beginning of humanity and will continue for the simple reason that silencing your critics is an effective way of preventing others from doing the same.

Sweden would prove your point (5, Informative)

voss (52565) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002303)

Oh wait it doesnt. Maybe Norway...nope. Okay how about Denmark? Nah.

Surely ultraviolent costa rica...wait they dont have an army nor much violence to speak of.

There are oodles of peaceful left of center social democratic governments that have been stable and democratic for decades.

Re:Sweden would prove your point (2)

Sique (173459) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002473)

Pst! Don't let facts confuse the ideology of a hardboiled anti-leftist.

Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001851)

These few loud attention seekers do not represent Islam any more than Westboro' Baptist represents Christianity. They may respectively have their flaws, but don't believe that the most radical examples are representative of the whole.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2, Insightful)

bigCstyle (2802795) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001871)

Unfortunately it is a symptom of the disease...

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001873)

Um. No. Remember that lady who named a teddy bear Mohammed and there were mass movements in the street calling for her death?
Or the cartoonist who was killed cause of one of his drawings?

As bad as westboro is, they are 1. Super Small, and 2. Haven't actually killed anyone yet.

Islam is a batshit religion, that happens to contain a decent number of sane people who happen to have been raised inside of that culture. The quicker we realize that it is anything BUT a religion of peace, and deal with it appropriately, the better.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2, Insightful)

Pecisk (688001) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002025)

So something like Christianity six centuries ago? :)

Re: Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002069)

Or like Islam today, which is much more relevant.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

JWW (79176) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002123)

Yes. Islam desperately needs a Protestant reformation.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002199)

Well first of all it's decentralised, so no pope to rally against, and second of all the Westboros and related nuts aren't Catholic. The creationists and extremists are all Protestant sects, so even after a reformation look what happened. The quicker we realise that the Abrahamic religions in general are a blight, the better. I won't say all religions because Buddhism is okay, but most.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002261)

The creationists and extremists are all Protestant sects...

This makes no more sense than concluding something from the fact virtually all serial-killers are male. "Creationists and extremists" is a nonsense collection, but leaving that aside, the views of Westboro Baptist represent less than .0001% of Protestants.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Funny)

dougisfunny (1200171) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002373)

I always thought the Westboro Baptist Church was an atheist business trying to make money in lawsuits by masquerading as a retarded church.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (4, Interesting)

Pecisk (688001) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002519)

I fear that it needs more than that. Actually it was Luther who stood first against Pope and dogmas. However, at that time Church was already over it's fever to kill everyone who disagreed. Let's remember, it took centuries for them to get there. They thought that excluding from Church was enough.

When I look to Middle East Islam, I fear they will have huge problems to get over that phase. Everyone who disagrees are sooner or later silenced. Some would say that economical development is only answer, but I fear that it won't be enough.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002573)

They already had their protestant reformation. That's how Shia, Sunni, Sufism, Ahmadiyya and other denominations were born. They are now roughly where Christian world was at the turn of XVI and XVII centuries. The power struggle, the witch hunts, the civil wars - there are so many similarities it feels like a "deja vu" of sorts. What needs to happen now is the age of Enlightenment, where reason and science overpowers the corrupt religious movements. After that, a brief period of Romanticism won't hurt. Then there is the least glorious stage in European history - the emancipation of the working class and the cult of personality during the Nationalism period. This is the period which we should be most wary of, for this period in European history brought monsters into existence and put them among the impressionable masses. After that, we're golden. The whole journey, seeing as Islamic world progresses slightly faster than the Christian, should take some 200 years. Of course one can only imagine what will be the state of Europe and western world in general in 200 years...

More like 7-8 centuries (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002205)

But ya

Christianity grew up. It's not perfect, it still has plenty of crazies in various kinds, but by and large Christianity grew out of the crusades mentality. Islam by and large has not.

Thus I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to criticize Islam in a way they do not criticize Christianity (I'm an atheist by the way). That Christianity was all "kill the unbelievers" 700+ years ago does NOT give Islam license to be that way today. Society can, and should, advance. I would hope that in 700 years people would look back on society today and be glad that their society was even better than it is now.

In very many ways Islam is still largely stuck in the Dark Ages and it needs to stop. We shouldn't give it a pass because Christianity was also in the Dark Ages several centuries ago.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

fuzzybunny (112938) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002447)

Precisely like Christianity six centuries ago, and very much like Christianity in some pockets of the world today.

Absolutely inexcusable in any circumstances.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

Sique (173459) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002509)

Or North Ireland 20 years ago.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002055)

Ultra-strict disciplinarian religions are aggregators for people with impulse control problems. You can see how all aspects of Islam are designed around catering to low-EQ people.

Eg: Women covering themselves with veils, or from head to toe.
(Translation: when I see women's skin, I can't control myself, I might jump her, so she better make sure not to show any skin, coz I sure can't be expected to control my urges)

The mob riots over Youtube videos - how the hell is that just a "tiny minority of extremists"? Which other religion does this?
Where are the "greater majority" who oppose such extremism? Gone fishin?

Wherever Muslims are in the minority, they want all kinds of minority rights. Wherever Muslims are in the majority, what kind of rights do they give to minorities? I don't see any other ethnic groups immigrating to Muslim-majority countries. On the contrary, I see all the minorities leaving.

The fact that Muslims want as many rights for themselves as possible while giving as little respect as possible from their side towards other religions -- well, that tells me all I need to know about how to treat that religion. I'm not going to show more tolerance to someone than they're willing to show to me. Anything else is called masochism.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

hotdiggity (987032) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002145)

The quicker we realize that it is anything BUT a religion of peace, and deal with it appropriately, the better.

Can you elaborate on this? How to deal with it? This isn't one of those vague political "yada yada yada" ideas, because dealing with a widely held religious belief usually involves war, discriminatory laws, or any other of a wide variety of excuses to stamp on personal rights and freedom of association.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002335)

Can you elaborate on this? How to deal with it?

Easy peasy. A good little case of "sand to glass" in the middle east, and applied religiocide in the so-called civilized west.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002233)

Um. No. Remember that lady who named a teddy bear Mohammed and there were mass movements in the street calling for her death?
Or the cartoonist who was killed cause of one of his drawings?

As bad as westboro is, they are 1. Super Small, and 2. Haven't actually killed anyone yet.

Islam is a batshit religion, that happens to contain a decent number of sane people who happen to have been raised inside of that culture. The quicker we realize that it is anything BUT a religion of peace, and deal with it appropriately, the better.

Too bad you're focused on Islam, but ignore the violence inherent in Christianity. Go ask George Tiller how he died. Go ask any number of women abused by their "Christian" families after getting pregnant, or heck, just being caught having had sex. Go look up Christian Dominionism. Sorry, but the American Taliban is real, and they are a vicious and bloody sect as bad as any Islamics you can name.

Heck, why don't you ask the Creators of South Park to show you some of their death threats they get over various cartoons depicting Jesus or the Pope.

No, wait, that'd require you not to be biased.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

LoRdTAW (99712) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002267)

"that happens to contain a decent number of sane people who happen to have been raised inside of that culture"

One thing that many people don't understand is that Islam is more than a religion, its a culture that dictates how one should live, worship and govern its people. Islam knows no borders and Muslims have a very strong sense of belonging to the point where an Afgan and Iranian would see each other as brothers and not men from different countries.

At work we have two Pakistani kids, brothers. I was talking to one of them about a company that was started by two guys from Iraq and his face instantly lit up, smiled and said "Oh wow, my people started that business?" At first I was confused and asked him "Wait, I thought you are Pakistani" to which he replied "Yea, but they are Muslims like me". That really showed me how close the Muslim people are connected by their belief. Its to the point where a Pakistani is proud of the achievements of two men from Iraq, a completely different country. When was the last time anyone here spoke of an achievement of a Christian from another country with pride based solely on the fact they they were Christian like them?

Christians do not have that kind of bond with each other and therefor don't understand why the Muslims go crazy when someone disses Mohammed or makes a YouTube video calling Islam a religion of terrorists. You are insulting an entire culture, spiritual belief and government of all Muslims, everywhere. Christians have gotten to the point where they don't really give a shit, though there are sects that are still very close with each other (Mormons etc.). So when someone makes a Jesus joke or calls the church a scam, they don't take up arms and call for death.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2)

Jawnn (445279) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002269)

Um. No. Remember that lady who named a teddy bear Mohammed and there were mass movements in the street calling for her death? Or the cartoonist who was killed cause of one of his drawings?

As bad as westboro is, they are 1. Super Small, and 2. Haven't actually killed anyone yet.

Islam is a batshit religion, that happens to contain a decent number of sane people who happen to have been raised inside of that culture. The quicker we realize that it is anything BUT a religion of peace, and deal with it appropriately, the better.

Viewed with intellectual detachment, the term "batshit" (crazy) would apply to most religions, and without question it applies to every last one that uses it's version of "the word of god" to justify the mistreatment of "the other". The fact that Islam is the "word" of choice for the most crazy right now has nothing to do with the religion. Think harder

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (3, Interesting)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002565)

My barely informed theory: Muslims who want to kill Christians and others are being faithful to a straight-forward reading of the Quran, and Muslims who just want us all to get along are using twisted interpretations of the Quran to accomodate their view.

But I'm certainly not an expert. Any who is want to comment?

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001875)

Not all Muslims are Terrorists.

But most Terrorists are Muslims.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1, Troll)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001903)

Most terrorists are Christians. I've never been blown up by a Muslim.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001921)

Most terrorists are Christians. I've never been blown up by a Muslim.

If your argument is that you were blown up by a Christian then how are you posting crap to Slashdot? Usually when a person is blown up they tend to die. What ISP do you have from "paradise?" How are your virgins? Are they dudes?

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001967)

Most terrorists are Christians. I've never been blown up by a Muslim.

You've been blown up by a Christian? "It got better..."

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002067)

Most terrorists are Christians. I've never been blown up by a Muslim.

You've been blown up by a Christian? "It got better..."

Yes, it is getting better in Ireland [wikipedia.org] , thank you.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002033)

I don't know about blown up, but I've been blown by a lot of Christians. Those religious girls are some real easy sluts, just like their forebear the whore Mary.

Muslim bitches are probably skanks too, but I would never touch one of those nasty, moustache sporting dune coons.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2)

Trepidity (597) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002073)

Is that actually the case? Here in Europe, Islamic terrorism gets a lot of press, and does exist, but I don't believe to has close to majority responsibility. In Spain, for example, there has been one major Islamic terrorist attack (the 2004 Madrid subway bombing), but thousand of ETA terrorist attacks, which have killed several times more people. In the UK, the major perpetrators of terrorist attacks have been Christian paramilitary groups, split between militant Catholic paramilitaries and militant Protestant paramilitaries.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002097)

Not all Muslims are Terrorists.

But most Terrorists are Muslims.

israel are terrorists!!!!

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002115)

Not all Muslims are Terrorists.

But most Terrorists are Muslims.

Arguably, London has had more terrorist attacks from Catholic (Christian) terrorists than from muslim ones.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2)

schwit1 (797399) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002515)

The Irish terrorists are not Catholic. Calling yourself a Catholic does not make you a member of the Catholic faith, that goes for any faith. Striving to live the teachings of a faith makes you a member. Blowing up your fellow man is not a Catholic teaching.

I am not Catholic.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

famebait (450028) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002149)

most Terrorists are Muslims.

Troll.

This moves in waves.
Let's not forget about IRA, ETA, RAF, various other left-wing bombers in Europe, untold guerilla movements in Africa and South America.
With some exceptions it mostly follows where there are active separatist movements at any given time
Do your homework.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002297)

So... did you hear that from Rep Peter King (R), the man who keeps running dubious "radicalization" Congressional investigations against Muslims, but who fund raised for the IRA, a Catholic terrorist group that meant for the first 25 years of my life I couldn't go into a pub or fast food restaurant without there being a chance I'd be blown up by some IRA coward's bomb?

Just curious. Because if you did, you might want to stop listening to him.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (3, Insightful)

IRWolfie- (1148617) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002575)

The IRA wasn't a "catholic terrorist group". I suggest you read up on your Irish history before proceeding.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001879)

I think you are glossing over the fact that, while offensive, holding up a sign saying "God hates fags" isn't quite the same thing as killing somebody. I'm not a fan of religion at all. But of the significant world religions Islam is alone in constantly calling for death and destruction. Simply look at any country that has a significant population of Muslims intermixed with another group. How many of those places have no tensions? None. Zero. Zip. Of course the Muslims always seem to have a reason for declaring a Fatwah and calling for death.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002091)

The U.S. is actually a decent example of a country with a significant Muslim population and general lack of any fatwahs or jihads going on. There are some occasional nuts, but I don't think it's any more prevalent than with any other religious group: an American Muslim is no more likely to try to bomb you than an American Christian is.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002273)

I think he means more than a few percent of the population being Islamic, in the US Islam is somewhere around 5 to 7% if I recall correctly. When we see them as say... 25% or more then we may worry.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002317)

The U.S. is actually a decent example of a country with a significant Muslim population and general lack of any fatwahs or jihads going on. There are some occasional nuts, but I don't think it's any more prevalent than with any other religious group: an American Muslim is no more likely to try to bomb you than an American Christian is.

* You need to check the definition of "significant."
* You must not have been paying attention around 2001 when a Fatwah claimed the lives of over 5,000 people.
* You can use the "loan gunman" argument for Christian terrorists. But that same argument applies to stray Muslim terrorists. There were a few. Remember Lee-Boyd Malvo?
* Your argument that it is not as prevalent with any other group is flawed. When I board a plane I am not worried about all the Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, or Wiccan terrorists.

Disclaimer: I am an atheist. I think the world would be better without any religion. That being said I also believe in letting people do what they want as long as it doesn't harm me. What's the most likely religion to harm anyone? Islam. When the Buddhist terrorist threat gets high enough I'll worry about it. But being an Engineer I solve the immediate problem first so I can be around to solve the next one. And for the dimension of religion: Islam is the problem.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002341)

The U.S. is actually a decent example of a country with a significant Muslim population and general lack of any fatwahs or jihads going on.

YET.

Countries (1)

phorm (591458) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002517)

Indeed.
In the East, they'll kill you for religion.
In the West, they'll kill you for money.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002305)

How is Indonesia faring?
They're 86% Muslim and have a population of 248M.

Let's see:
There were riots in 1998 [wikipedia.org] over suppressed freedom of speech. A protestor was shot dead by police in 2012 [nytimes.com] and that incited another riot. They also went crazy [indoboom.com] over that low-budget anti-Muslim film.

Your argument stands firm.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001883)

A noble effort, but this conversation is bound in end in bigoted mudslinging no matter how hard you try. Just wait til ChrisQ (amongst others) chimes in :(

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001891)

That's kinda like saying the people that flew airplanes into the WTC on 9/11, and the people in various middle eastern countries that have extremely barbaric laws and customs don't represent Islam at all.

Sure, muslims used to be extremely civilized and were at one point considered to be the most advanced, technologically and intellectually, but where are they now?

Now, they are just puppets of the Jews. The Zionists control EVERYONE.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002063)

If i am in control why i was biten up and school and whats more importan where is MY MONEY ! IT'S MY MONEY ( if i am in control ) I NEEDED IT NOW!

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (4, Insightful)

Mashiki (184564) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001907)

These few loud attention seekers do not represent Islam...

Your comment might hold merit if Westboro was blowing people up, or they were forcing their young girls into FGM, or there was a substantially large number of them involved in grooming one particular race of girls for sex exploitation, or in some countries nearly all rapes are being committed by one group. Or they were threatening women who stood up for themselves, or even rose to positions of power. But none of that really holds any water does it, even when you expand outside of westboro at large.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

neyla (2455118) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002015)

Is there more extremists in Islam than in Christianity ? I think it's pretty clear that the answer is yes.

Are the extremsists, including violent ones who are willing to kill by the dozen among Christians ?

Yes. Fewer than among the muslims, but there sure are *some*. Breivik ring a bell ?

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002081)

Yes. Fewer than among the muslims, but there sure are *some*. Breivik ring a bell ?

Hey...congratulations, you managed to find one person in the last 10 years, compared to the 20k odd terrorist attacks by muslims alone! Boy that's sure some ratio, you a betting man because I already like those odds.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002173)

The major difference is that when a Christian nutbag kills some people, in no part of the world is there a celebration in the streets. Whereas successful Islamic terrorism is in many places openly celebrated by whole communities passing out candy and cheering about how the murderers are heroes. It is intertwined with a culture of hatred and violence that is supported by communities.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0, Troll)

Jawnn (445279) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002357)

The major difference is that when a Christian nutbag kills some people, in no part of the world is there a celebration in the streets. Whereas successful Islamic terrorism is in many places openly celebrated by whole communities passing out candy and cheering about how the murderers are heroes. It is intertwined with a culture of hatred and violence that is supported by communities.

You might ask yourself why that is. Why "those people" hate us so much. It's not a function of their religion.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002539)

It is a function of their religion because Muslims are the only ones who do it. The Christian minorities in the Middle East are culturally the same, but they don't do it, so it is not a function of culture. It's no excuse regardless. There is nothing, nothing that justifies a raucous celebration of the death of innocents who have done nothing other than live in a society you hate, and I won't be patronized by some white-guilt apologist about it.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002559)

Um, yes it is.

Before making excuses, please remember... (4, Interesting)

WoodstockJeff (568111) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001909)

Unfortunately for this "distinction" to have much meaning, you need to have the alleged "average" people and clerics of Islam start denouncing the actions of these "loud attention seekers" more strongly than a token, "it wasn't us."

Do a large number of these "average" people of Islam show up at the places where these "attention seekers" go, to make a shield between them and their targets, like a lot of people (both Christian and non-Christian) do at Westboro "events"?

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001929)

Really? How many people show up for the rallies? Westboro gets a few dozen. The Islamists get tens of thousands chanting for the heads of whomever's offended them.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001973)

Westboro Baptist Church is made up up maybe a dozen individuals in a nation of hundreds of millions. Radical Islam is now a significant majority in many Muslim countries, and a significant minority in many more.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001981)

Westboro are the bottom of the ethical and moral barrels, but they are not the representative sample to use here. There are very extremist Christians that have no problems with Terrorism. Ever heard of Northern Ireland?

BTW, Timothy McVeigh was a "good Christian" in a fundamentalist, extremely conservative "disagree with me and you'll die" kind of way..

Re:Sure... we believe you (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001987)

You idiot. You apologist.
www.prophetofdoom.net

They DO represent muslims, because Islam is pure evil, just like its inventor, 'Mo-ham-head', who was a mass murderer, multiple rapist, and a paedophile - all documented by MUSLIMS for 1400 years, because they think those crimes are okay, as long as 'god' tells them to do it.

You really are a moron of the first order.

Do you have nothing against Islam?
Then you have nothing against stoning, amputations, flogging, female genital mutilation, suicide bombers, beheadings, "honour" killings, repression of free speech, abolition of Parliament and its replacement with Shariah, banning of music, banning of beer and wine, banning of pork, dressing women in burkhas, beating of wives, mutiple wives, killing of rape victims, persecution of Jews and Christians, child brides, repression of reason and questioning, islamic police states, burning of churches, killing anyone who leaves islam, killing anyone who questions the teachings of islam, total intolerance of other religions, inferior status of women, violent Jihad against non-muslims, arranged marriages, acid attacks, public hangings, mutilations, rewriting of history, denial of islamic atrocities...

Islam... in layman's terms

Here's how it works:

As long as the Muslim population remains under 2% in any given country, they will, for the most part, be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- 0.6% Muslim
Australia -- 1.5% Muslim
Canada -- 1.9% Muslim
China -- 1.8% Muslim
Italy -- 1.5% Muslim
Norway -- 1.8% Muslim

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize to other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from prisons and street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- 2% Muslim
Germany -- 3.7% Muslim
United Kingdom -- 2.7% Muslim
Spain -- 4% Muslim
Thailand -- 4.6% Muslim

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- 8% Muslim
Philippines -- 5% Muslim
Sweden -- 5% Muslim
Switzerland -- 4.3% Muslim
The Netherlands -- 5.5% Muslim
Trinidad & Tobago -- 5.8% Muslim

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Shari'ah, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Shari'ah law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana -- 10% Muslim
India -- 13.4% Muslim
Israel -- 16% Muslim
Kenya -- 10% Muslim
Russia -- 15% Muslim

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, as in:

Ethiopia -- 32.8% Muslim

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, as in:

Bosnia -- 40% Muslim
Chad -- 53.1% Muslim
Lebanon -- 59.7% Muslim

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Shariah Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels (yes, there really is such a thing) as in:

Albania -- 70% Muslim
Malaysia -- 60.4% Muslim
Qatar -- 77.5% Muslim
Sudan -- 70% Muslim

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- 83% Muslim
Egypt -- 90% Muslim
Gaza -- 98.7% Muslim
Indonesia -- 86.1% Muslim
Iran -- 98% Muslim
Iraq -- 97% Muslim
Jordan -- 92% Muslim
Morocco -- 98.7% Muslim
Pakistan -- 97% Muslim
Palestine -- 99% Muslim
Syria -- 90% Muslim
Tajikistan -- 90% Muslim
Turkey -- 99.8% Muslim
United Arab Emirates -- 96% Muslim

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here, there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, as in:

Afghanistan -- 100% Muslim
Saudi Arabia -- 100% Muslim
Somalia -- 100% Muslim
Yemen -- 100% Muslim

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states, the most radical Muslims intimidate, spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims for a variety of reasons.

QUOTE:

"Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel."

It is important to understand that even in countries with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Shariah Law. The national police do not enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other groups. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

But what the hell. Celebrate diversity... while you can, anyway.

Re:Sure... we believe you (1)

darkstar019 (2320432) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002021)

well said...

Re:Sure... we believe you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002133)

And some more copypasta [snopes.com] for you AC.

A few of the Muslim percentages are just a touch misleading.
For starters, the Muslim population of China is largely concentrated in the far western autonomous region of Xinjiang (Sinkiang), an area which shares a long border with a number of the former Soviet Central Asian Republics (Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan), and the Muslims of Xinjiang are largely members of the Turkic Uygur ethnic group.
Trinidad & Tobago and Guyana have always had a large East Indian community. While the vast majority of these are Hindus, it would stand to reason that some of them were emigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh (most likely when the latter was still part of Pakistan) as these two countries are considered "East Indian".
As to India, amazingly there were actually SOME Muslims who didn't want to migrate back in 1947-48 to become part of the Muslim nation of Pakistan. Even more intriguing, the most recent religious tensions in India have been due to the majority Hindus, with Sikhs also being involved. Muslim tensions in India have been primarily confined to the Kashmir region.
Regarding Israel, it should be remembered that the Muslim population of ISRAEL are considered legally distinct from those of the Palestinian Territories. Israel's religious groups (including JEWS and Christians) are given a great deal of autonomy over their own people. There are purely religious courts which deal exclusively with Jews and exclusively with Christians on a number of social issues, such as marriage, divorce and inheritance. Each religious group is permitted to establish schools with minimal interference by the State--Jewish schools (yeshivas) run by Orthodox Jewish groups segregate students on the basis of gender just as Muslim schools (madrassas) do. Israel has historically had less trouble with its Muslim CITIZENS than the nation has had with Palestinians. (Muslims who hold citizenship in the State of Israel are exempt from the military service required of other Israelis; then again, so are any number of ultra-Orthodox Jewish citizens as long as those Jews are enrolled in a religious school.)
Ethiopia, it should be noted, has always had a very large percentage of Muslims. (That it's given as less than 33% suggests that figures may be very shaky. A figure I have from about 5 years ago indicates that between 40 and 50% of the country's population is Muslim.) In spite of its inclusion in this fear-mongering list, Ethiopia has been surprisingly calm in terms of inter-religious activity. The country's been incredibly troubled in the last 30 years, but little of that trouble has really been due to religious infighting WITHIN the country (there's been far more ethnically-based conflict as well as regional secessionist movements--Eritrea's led to the region's independence).
Bosnia is really out of place on this list. Apparently *someone* wasn't paying very close attention to the news during the 1990s. It was the Muslims of Bosnia who were largely targeted for ethnic cleansing by Bosnia's CHRISTIAN Serbs. Had the Serbian population of the country not been backed by Milosevic in his attempt to annex whole swaths of Bosnian (and Croatian) territory as part of "Greater Serbia" when Bosnia seceded from Yugoslavia, and had the Serbs accepted being part of a multi-ethnic Bosnia-Herzegovina, the country could have been as relatively peaceful as it had under Tito's rule. (Even following the death of Tito, Bosnia was relatively strife-free in spite of its multi-ethnic makeup. The Yugoslav republics of Croatia and Slovenia, largely homogenous regions, saw more strife in the post-Tito years.) In other words, Bosnia's troubles have had almost nothing to do with its Muslim population (and, it should be remembered that it was OTHER Muslim nations, not Bosnia, which urged Muslims go to Bosnia to fight).
Chad. Chad. What can one say about Chad except for the fact that its Muslim population (like Bosnia) has had little to do with its woes? Being invaded by Libya (from the late 1970s all the way up to the mid 1990s, Chad was constantly faced with repelling Libyan troops and Libyan proxies, all over a narrow strip of borderland (the Aozou Strip), and more recently, the country's had to deal with the overflow from Sudan's Darfur strife.
And Lebanon. If it weren't for the Christian population's stubbornness on retaining political superiority over the Muslim population, there might be a bit less of the infighting that's described. When France granted Lebanon independence back in the 1940s, a census was conducted which set the formula for political governance. The Maronite Christians (not the only Christian group, but by far the majority) had a significant plurality of the population which allowed them to hold the Presidency and the bulk of seats in the Parliament (the Orthodox Christians were awarded the post of Deputy Prime Minister). The Speaker of Parliament had to be a Shi'a Muslim; the Prime Minister, a Sunni Muslim. After 1990, the Parliament was reapportioned to equalize the Muslim/Christian split. Then, too, there was a little matter of an invasion by Israel in the 1980s and an occupation of nearly half of Southern Lebanon which lasted more than a decade (which certainly didn't help religious rivalries, especially as the Israelis were very strongly supportive of the Christian population). Incidentally, until 1975, Lebanon had almost no religious-based strife, and nearly everyone agrees that the Christian leadership was most at fault for the eventual eruption of strife since they were the ones who most strongly opposed any census which might lead to a lessening of their power.
Regarding Albania, the 70% Muslim is largely regarded as a HISTORICAL figure which may not reflect MODERN post-Communist Albania. Under the Hoxha regime, Albania became one of the most avidly atheist societies wherein virtually every mosque and church was converted to museums or government offices. After the collapse of Communism, Islam didn't really regain a foothold in the same manner that Christian denominations did in the rest of Eastern Europe. Unlike Poland and the Catholic Church, there was no mainstream Islamic organization to play a role in the fight to end Communism (similarly, religious denominations played a very limited or non-existent role in Yugoslavia, Hungary or Czechoslovakia, but the leaders of the Communist regimes never attempted the same type of religious eradication as was done in Albania). In fact, according to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania),

Western European countries (but Germany and Austria) considered Albania as a Turkish colony for almost five centuries (1400-1900), mainly because they wrongly believed, some still do, that Albanians are Muslims.

Albania's perception in the West as an 'Islamic' country has also been reinforced because of the Serbian propaganda since the end of the nineteenth century onwards to present the Albanians as 'fanatic adherents' of the Islamic faith and as such as 'non-Europeans'.

Documents made public recently by the US government reveal that during the Cold War the West as well as the USSR often referred to Albania as a 'Muslim' country in spite of the officially atheistic stance of the Albanian government. [11]

The trend of declaring Albanians as 70% Muslims and 30% Christians, both of different denominations, and thus as a 100% religious people, or of declaring Albania as a Muslim Country or religious country, still carries on in international media, press, tv and the internet, thus perpetuating misinformation, outdated perceptions and distortion of reality.

I'm also a bit confused over the inclusion of a quote from Leon Uris. Using a work of fiction doesn't really bolster one's argument. A work of fiction can illuminate certain aspects of reality (though it usually helps if the writer is OF that culture) but it shouldn't be used to prove one's own bigoted preconceptions.

Quote:
Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.
As to that figure, I'm not really worried about it all that much since I don't really expect to live that long. (I figure if I make it to mid-century, I'll be doing damned good.)

Re:Sure... we believe you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002193)

Anders Bro, they let you have internetz?

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002013)

If there are dozen political parties behind this push for executions of bloggers, it would seem highly problematic to me how much local muslims tolerate and how many support extremism. Society-centric belief systems such as communism and Islam would be great if even a single society would prosper thanks to these belief systems, not despite them. Systems that cope despite such ideologies tend to degenerate to hell for individuals, and I see very little reason to not weed out the troublemaker component. In my opinion, something that leads to trampling individual and human rights like this should receive no sympathy or understanding, and especially no support, financial or otherwise.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2)

bazorg (911295) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002017)

For other subjects, but mostly these of politics and religion, whenever someone suggests "those guys are just a small minority", I have to wonder: how do you know? have you counted them or is it wishful thinking?

How many murders has WB done? (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002029)

Oh wait, WB is just annoying but not outright killers.

How many people are forced to live under rule of the Westboro Baptist church against their will?

Oh wait, they do not get to enforce their rules on others.

So... they are the same how?

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002037)

To get a better idea of Christianity in practice, look at English and European history a few centuries ago. Human ingenuity was spent in devising torture techniques. Executions were popular pastime. Tens of millons of people lost their lives in holy wars.

Christianity was reluctantly tamed by Enlightenment and Humanism, which values have yet to make significant inroads to the Islamic societies. But give it a few centuries. After all, Christianity had a 600-year head start.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (2)

neyla (2455118) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002049)

True. But it's also true that the average muslim is considerably more conservative than the average christian. Infact if a christian held views as medieval as those of the average muslim, we'd call him an extremism: his position really would be extreme in the christian church.

For example, the pope was an extremist. His views where more extreme than the views of 95% of catholics, and 97% of christians.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

Pecisk (688001) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002367)

Actually even word "conservative" here would mean very different things. I would go out and call Islam very radical at it's core - which makes problems for normal people who has Islamic legacy. There never has been "sanitation" of Bible, because it never needed one - all what changed was rules of Church and people's attitude towards belief system. However I don't see how Islam can continue it's existence without rewriting or throwing out some parts - or at least changing core interpretations. Last such try created violent split within Islam, which feeds it's violent cycle still today.

Christianity has never called out for mass murder. Bible, especially Old Testament, is very conflicting with this, but that's priest's problem who insists that Bible or Church can't be wrong. But still, Christianity defines "no harm" attitude to non-believers and sinners, looking out for forgiveness, not "making them right". Yes, these core concepts has been violated seriously by lot of people. Still it is what was written there.

Quran stigmatizes those who doesn't believe in Alah and holds very extreme radicalism POV on basic human rights. It's been war religion for too many centuries, never mind it's roots being very close to Christianity.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002059)

All religious people are nutjobs who belong in mental institutions.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (3, Insightful)

KiloByte (825081) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002291)

How in the hell this has been modded "5 Insightful"?

There are two kinds of muslims:
* peaceful sinners who cherry-pick from the Koran
* murderous savages who do as the prophet commanded

I see you're used to Bible which contains thousands of contradictions and thus can't possibly be followed without massive cherry-picking. It does contain savage commandments like "when you approach a town, you need to issue an ultimatum: if the denizens surrender, kill only old women/the infirm/those uppity/etc and put the rest into slavery, taking their women as your wives and concubines -- but if they refuse to surrender, you must slaughter them all. Except for a list of tribes, which you're not allowed to spare and must slaughter without quarter, including livestock" -- yet no one takes such commandments seriously today, despite Jesus reaffirming the old law multiple times.

On the other hand, the few contradictions in Koran are limited to "how many angels visited Miriam", the biggest one IIRC is about permissibility of alcohol. There's not a shred of doubt about being obliged to murder infidels. You must be forgiveful but only to those who convert to Islam, you may subjugate people of four religions but only for a period of time, you should offer infidels a chance to convert, and when facing overwhelming force you may merely lie and use "stratagems" until a time to strike happens.

It is impossible to follow the Bible in full. It is well possible to follow the Koran. And thus I disagree with your claim that those who do are merely "few loud attention seekers who do not represent Islam".

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002311)

And when they incite multiple murders to other people we can deal with them accordingly. Guess what they are a bunch of lawyers that piss people off so they can sue them I doubt they even care about there cause outside of getting rich.

As to the Muslim extremists they are not pulling there punches. Islam allows anybody to issue a Fatwa it's somewhere between a legal opinion and court order primarily dependent on how many people subscribe to and social status of the person that wrote it. They are not saying so and so is a bad person but so and so did this and should receive this punishment. They are effectively a mix of flame war fodder with court orders. Traditionally Muslims had there own courts and allowed others "of the book" there own place and eventually pretty much any other religion that agreed to pay taxes and not be outwardly offensive (eat all the pork you want but not in front of Muslims) could set up shop in there communities.

Want to fix it you need to pressure all countries to not allow any form of religiously derived law beyond willing adherence as a basic right of all people. Legally define the writer of a these texts (assuming it's distributed) to be culpable for the requested affect occurring. Restrict any religion from attempting to affect politics in any way. I do not see this ever happening in a fair way.

Now in a perfect world we would declare open season on anybody over the age of majority interrupting or intending to causing mental anguish at a funeral or similar function. Again the world is not perfect so somebody would abuse that.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002449)

Westboro is a terrible example. It isn't a church and they're not Christians -- the "church" consists of a single family of lawyers who have a scam where they piss peope off so much that they're attacked, then they sue. It's a scam, not a church.

Re:Before commenting, please remember... (5, Funny)

nedlohs (1335013) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002579)

That's right. It's the religion of peace after all!

I'm sure there will be widespread condemnation of this behavior from all the mainstream Islamic mouthpieces.

Please, label the parties involved correctly (5, Insightful)

muecksteiner (102093) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001861)

This is not a dispute between left and right, at least not in the sense that we are used to in the so-called "West". The two antagonistic parties here are secularists on the one hand, and islamistic religious fundamentalists on the other. These two groups are not even in a very roundabout way related to the old left-right dichotomy we are used to. Except perhaps the fact that Western leftists also generally seem to weigh in on the secular side of things, but that is about the point where any similarities end.

Re:Please, label the parties involved correctly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001965)

Correct. In fact, the whole tired 'left-right' meme should be discarded everywhere. It came from the French revolution, iirc. We should get rid of 'liberal' too, most 'liberals' I see are not liberal in any sense at all.

Re:Please, label the parties involved correctly (2)

Trepidity (597) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002109)

If you think of it in the French revolutionary context, it actually makes pretty good sense. The "right" was pro-Church, pro-tradition, pro-elites, while the left was secularist, anti-elite, anti-tradition. That maps pretty well to what's going on here.

Motorhead had words for this (1)

vikingpower (768921) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001901)

I am the one, Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.

I twist the truth, I rule the world, my crown is called deceit I am the emperor of lies, you grovel at my feet I rob you and I slaughter you, your downfall is my gain And still you play the sycophant and revel in you pain And all my promises are lies, all my love is hate I am the politician, and I decide your fate

I march before a martyred world, an army for the fight I speak of great heroic days, of victory and might I hold a banner drenched in blood, I urge you to be brave I lead you to your destiny, I lead you to your grave Your bones will build my palaces, your eyes will stud my crown For I am Mars, the god of war, and I will cut you down.

NOT a battle between "left" and "right" (4, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001955)

It's a battle between secular democratic government and koran-thumping nutballs who want to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else at sword point.

Re:NOT a battle between "left" and "right" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002127)

Correct. Any secular democratic republic is LEFT when viewed in comparison to a group that promotes religious rule and religious law. Even when both groups look to be on the right end of the spectrum from a modern Western country's politics.

In general LEFT denotes politics that uphold democratization of political power and individual freedom over long-standing power groups, nationalism and traditionalism. RIGHT denotes holding or collection of political power among traditional power groups, nationalism and traditionalism over individual freedom and holds democratized political power to be dangerous.

Most modern Western governments and are a mixture of left and right. In America, Democrats are only slightly more left than Republicans and both groups are to the right of most European governments.

In the Muslim world, most parties are to the right of us, but that does not negate the comparison of groups with in the same country where one group can be identified as more to the right than another.

This way of viewing things only seems to break down in Communist countries. There, dictatorial or one-party rule and control of power are such rightist elements that they make everything else seem left in comparison.

Re:NOT a battle between "left" and "right" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002453)

This way of viewing things only seems to break down in Communist countries. There, dictatorial or one-party rule and control of power are such rightist elements that they make everything else seem left in comparison.

I think part of this is that Communism's self-definition still holds inappropriate mindshare among the general public.

To summarize your description simplistically, we might say that Left means "power to the people" and Right "power to the state". However, with Marx-Engels notion of the progression of the ideal (Communist) state as one centered around the maximization of the interests of the people, with authoritarian government only a transitional step until said government dissolves itself in favor of the people... which oddly, never seems to actually happen once a group of people gets in power, incidentally... we have a skewed public interpretation of where that "is" on the spectrum.

For most of my (rather graybeard by now) life, it was uncontroversial to say that the Soviet Union would be far Left, and Hitler far Right. Much more accurate would be to say, per your categorization, that both are far Right--but that hasn't been the common parlance.

Re:NOT a battle between "left" and "right" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002253)

It's a battle between secular democratic government and koran-thumping nutballs who want to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else at sword point.

Substitute "bible" for "koran" and "gun" for "sword" and see what happens . . .

Re:NOT a battle between "left" and "right" (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002475)

the problem comes in when only one sides reserves the right to, and frequently uses, the ability to kill the secularists

progress cannot happen if one side doesn't just debate, but frequently murders proponents of progress

there are forces of the right in every country. but think how much worse it would be. for example, here in the usa, if all the bs you see the right was saying was also accompanied by frequent murder of those on the left, and full support within the right to do so

now you have some idea of what it is like to be a force for progress in bangladesh, or anywhere in the muslim world

and it is why islamic radicalism is so dangerous. not so much to the whole world, but specifically to the muslim world. it is a solid, effective phenomenon: just murder your progressive opponents. solid results: no progress

the muslim world will be mired in this nonsense for a long time, much carnage, and much misery, and poorer, less happier societies

say what you want about islamic fundamentalism, but it works: it keeps societies beholden to right leaning thinking, simply because all you have to do murder those who oppose you

how long can they keep this up?

Old chinese saying? (1)

kleuske (796202) | about a year and a half ago | (#43001961)

One who threatens violence admits he's lost the argument. That doesn't help the bloggers, but still...

A religious war. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001975)

These always turn out great for the aggressors.

I DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001979)

If they want to kill each other, I say, LET THEM !! Fuel them !! Blog on, Garth-Akbar !!

Re:I DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002051)

For those of you who are a bit confused by the above post, let me translate it for you:
Blog on, Garth!
Blog on, Wayne!

Beasts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43001993)

will never harness intelligence more than that of a beast. Sad really..

War criminals, not just islamists (5, Insightful)

walmass (67905) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002001)

Relevant bit of history: Until 1971, Bangladesh used to be called East Pakistan and the current Pakistan was called West Pakistan. Both parts together made up Pakistan, but the East and the West didn't share a common language or culture. In 1952, the West tried to impose Urdu as the sole official language, which resulted in people protesting, and dying, to protect Bangla (Bengali) on Feb 21, 1952. This was eventually recognized by the UN as the International Mother Language Day [wikipedia.org]

But the attitude didn't change, and after losing an election overwhelmingly to a political party based mostly in East Pakistan, the loser from the West worked with the military to not hand over the power and instead let loose The Pakistani Army, which, with the help of local collaborators (Rajakars), killed 3 million people [genocidebangladesh.org] and raped [youtube.com] 200,000 women in 1971. One of the stated reasons was to "Protect Islam."

Fast forward to 2012. Now there is a war-crimes trial going on for some of the top Rajakars, and like the Arab Spring, social media headed by young bloggers took a leading role in holding the war criminals accountable.

So the Rajakars, who predominantly belong to a party called Jamaat-E-Islami, are trying to inflame popular sentiment (which is overwhelmingly against them) through propaganda that all bloggers are Atheists. Their campaign is funded by huge influx of money from the middle east and a network of highly profitable businesses in Bangladesh. They own TV stations and newspapers that are using photoshopped images to show the alleged debauchery and insults to Islam of the so-called Atheists.

So this is not just a left vs. right issue as people elsewhere might interpret it. This is an active campaign for the Talibanization of Bangladesh along with a campaign to protect people who allegedly committed crimes against humanity.

The process is not to ban just rightist parties (there are plenty)--the process aims to ban Jamaat-E-Islami, which has never clearly stated that their role in 1971 (of helping with genocide and rape) was wrong, and which is headed by people who actively participated in the genocide and rape.

For freedom-loving people everywhere, this must not be allowed to stand. "Atheists bloggers" is just a red herring--don't let this cheap trick by alleged criminals muddy the water.

Re:War criminals, not just islamists (2)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002093)

Bangladesh is the real-life Elbonia, complete with mud.

Execute anyone who calls for murder. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002111)

Problem solved.

Re:Execute anyone who calls for murder. (1, Funny)

Neil Boekend (1854906) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002399)

Planning on suicide?

CNN will hate this (2)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002167)

Someone should tell CNN to cover this. It would really ruin their stupid "Islam is peace. They're just like you and me" documentary barrage. Islam is violent EVERYWHERE in the world. Get over it and stop pretending it's something else.

Difficult case (1)

Pecisk (688001) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002207)

First of all, I don't know almost nothing about Islam (just tons of facts found on Wikipedia), but I have met descent people with that religion. While it's middle age mentality plays some background in all this, my pick is it's popularity within uneducated, poor masses are adding more to these outbursts of violence.

Second part is - while we all love to trash religions in the name of the free speech, and enjoying anonymity given by Internet (at least from dumb ass religious nuts), blogging about how backwards Islam goes in a country with lot of uneducated people with Islamic heritage is not very smart. Islam in many places is actual strange parallel political system. Yeah, yeah, it shouldn't be, but it is so. So if you really about to challenge that mob, you must be ready to deal with brunt of anger and violence. How Tea Baggers in US would react if someone would call a ban for their party?

Third and final part - it's getting tiresome for geeks to being more and more disconnected from real life. Yes, religion is that strange thing you don't dig. Yes, all these religious nuts and populists - it would be very nice to live without them. But not everyone with that religion is nut or manipulative screwball. And even if people are not smart as you are, acting very reactionary to all stuff religion won't make them your friends. But if you want your ideas actually work, you need to convince them.

Said all that, nothing justifies shouting for murder. Those people must get arrested for trying to incite violent unrest.

Religion! (1)

Transfinite (1684592) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002313)

Many people on this planet, for whatever reason, are in possession of a feeble mind. Religion is too much for them. Although religions contain some good advice, most practitioners can't even keep to these simple rules. Some of those being, "don't kill" another being "show compassion", yet another "Show tolerance". These and other rules are laid out in the major religions time and time again. Most people are to imbecilic even to keep to simple rules. That being the case I propose all the worlds religions are made illegal, banned. Their corrupt institutions dismantled. Their vast sums of wealth distributed to the needy and poor. That people are actually educated and not indoctrinated with nonsensical fairy tales.

YUO FAIL' IT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43002479)

Leftist as in Hitler? (1, Troll)

mnooning (759721) | about a year and a half ago | (#43002491)

As head of the German Socialist Party (NAZI), Adolf was as left wing as they get. Except that the communists were even more socialist, so Adolf and the boys were considered right wing by comparison. After WWII communists began calling those who want less government "right wing" as a verbal engineering ploy to discredit them, and the current "right versus left" association stuck. All that being said, what on earth does Islamists murdering bloggers have to do with left versus right wing? Are you so left wing that you are using this issue to discredit those who want less government?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?