×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Bradley Manning Makes Statement

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the answering-questions-of-patriotism dept.

Crime 440

Bradley Manning, the 25-year-old U.S. Army soldier who allegedly leaked hundreds of thousands of internal memos about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, has been held by the government for two and a half years. On Thursday he pleaded guilty 10 of 22 charges brought against him, and now he has released an official statement. Here's an excerpt: "On 3 February 2010, I visited the WLO website on my computer and clicked on the submit documents link. Next I found the submit your information online link and elected to submit the SigActs via the onion router or TOR anonymizing network by special link. ... I attached a text file I drafted while preparing to provide the documents to the Washington Post. It provided rough guidelines saying ‘It’s already been sanitized of any source identifying information. You might need to sit on this information– perhaps 90 to 100 days to figure out how best to release such a large amount of data and to protect its source. This is possibly one of the more significant documents of our time removing the fog of war and revealing the true nature of twenty-first century asymmetric warfare. Have a good day. After sending this, I left the SD card in a camera case at my aunt’s house in the event I needed it again in the future. I returned from mid-tour leave on 11 February 2010. Although the information had not yet been publicly by the WLO, I felt this sense of relief by them having it. I felt I had accomplished something that allowed me to have a clear conscience based upon what I had seen and read about and knew were happening in both Iraq and Afghanistan everyday."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

440 comments

Its hard to tell (4, Interesting)

DFurno2003 (739807) | about a year ago | (#43056869)

If any good come from this... Has it caused any measurable change in government policy? Or did it just cause tightening of their grip on classified data?

Arab Spring (4, Interesting)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | about a year ago | (#43056921)

This was a big factor in the Arab Spring. There is a chance of good things resulting from that (it will be years before we know).

Re:Arab Spring (5, Interesting)

anagama (611277) | about a year ago | (#43056941)

Democracy in the middle east is not considered a "good" by the Feds. They much prefer friendly ruthless dictators. Not for example how we've never invaded Saudia Arabia and never have a bad word to say about them. Or how HRC considered Mubarak a friend of the family ( http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/01/secretary-clinton-in-2009-i-really-consider-president-and-mrs-mubarak-to-be-friends-of-my-family/ [go.com] ).

Re:Arab Spring (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057055)

You seriosly believe there is "democracy" in Egypt now. Or Libya.

It's true that the old dictators were toppled but now there is a power vacuum where new overlords are fighting for top dog position. Egypt have had an increase in islamic terrorism which is kept silent in media to not make it worse. Do you think the air balloon full of tourists that exploded was an accident or terrorism? Blonde women can no longer walk in Cairo without escorts for fear of rape. Seriosly, dude.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Re:Arab Spring (4, Interesting)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#43057091)

I don't think they care if it's a dictatorship or not. The key word is friendly.

For example Turkey has been a staunch ally since the Truman Doctrine and has the highest Democracy Index in the region excluding Israel.

Re:Arab Spring (5, Insightful)

jhoegl (638955) | about a year ago | (#43057227)

Actually, the key word is predictable.
If a leader is unpredictable, no one can do business with them.

Re:Arab Spring (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057471)

The key word is friendly.

You misspelled subservient.

Re:Arab Spring (3, Informative)

drcagn (715012) | about a year ago | (#43057347)

I don't disagree about how our terribly our government works, but it's kind of funny that you conveniently left out the very next question in that interview:

QUESTION: Is this file, by any chance, connected to the invitation – extended invitation – for President Mubarak to visit the United States?
SECRETARY CLINTON: No. It’s an annual report. It is not in any way connected. We look forward to President Mubarak coming as soon as his schedule would permit. I had a wonderful time with him this morning. I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family. So I hope to see him often here in Egypt and in the United States.
QUESTION: How do you view the presidency in Egypt, the future of the presidency in Egypt?
SECRETARY CLINTON: That’s for the people of Egypt to decide. That is a very important issue that really is up to Egyptians.

Re:Arab Spring (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43057567)

Talk is cheap, and since Secretary Clinton started collecting big business checks at the same rate as everyone else (better than most, actually) we found out what hers was worth.

A charitable soul would believe that she was on the side of good until they shot down single-payer health care, and she gave up and joined the dark side since if you can't beat 'em, you might as well get paid. I am not that charitable, but it had to be said.

Re:Its hard to tell (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43056931)

No measureable change that has been acknowledged publicly. A lot of government organizations have tightened their grip, though. New security policies, programs that allow and encourage coworkers to report potential security risks, more thorough background checks and monitoring of access to data just to name a few.

Re:Its hard to tell (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about a year ago | (#43057239)

No measureable change that has been acknowledged publicly. A lot of government organizations have tightened their grip, though. New security policies, programs that allow and encourage coworkers to report potential security risks, more thorough background checks and monitoring of access to data just to name a few.

Which would be a very big success for Assange. [cryptome.org]

Re:Its hard to tell (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057015)

I was thinking about this the other day.

WRT Manning: I feel a bit bad for him. I absolutely understand that there's a need for secrecy in war-fighting, and I appreciate that the military has the ability to enforce that secrecy with punishment. I still feel bad for him. This young man was not in the best frame of mind, and it sounds like he really thought he was trying to do something right.

WRT the material: The first strike seems entirely legit. The one that killed the two Reuters people. They met with armed belligerents, at night, in an area where they knew there was fighting. Everyone wishes they hadn't been in the mix when our pilots and gunners did what they were supposed to. This, however, is going to happen when you have reporters pushing the limits of sanity to get a story in a war zone. Beyond that, it's chopper gunners shooting at a group of enemy combatants with RPG's and small arms, just like they're supposed to.

The second strike was wrong, and demonstrates what Manning was talking about when he talks about the fog of war. Bad things happen. The people on the guns obviously weren't trying to kill innocent, unarmed people. But they did, acting on invalid assumptions from the earlier strike, and it's tragic. There's no way around that.

WRT the handling of the material: The military's approach to the material (denying FOIA requests) was shady, but a pretty obvious function of, "err on the side of keeping stuff secret." You can't have war without casualties, and any time it happens somewhere where people live, some of those are going to be bad kills.

That said, handling of the material was absolutely atrocious. The "collateral murder" video was a selectively edited, perversely annotated, propaganda piece. Every effort was made to point out there were two people with cameras, not AK's, and no efforts (at all) were made to point out the loaded RPG's and small arms carried by the people they were meeting.

It's a mess. I feel bad for the kid... he was in a bad place before, and an even worse place now. I feel bad for every serviceman that got a bad rap from this situation, and I can see how unfair the whole thing was to our military in general. I do think the military made it worse by denying the release in the first place, and turning Manning into a Streisand situation.

WRT lessons learned: Don't deal with wikileaks. Deal with proper news outlets carefully. Don't deal with shady 3rd parties over IRC. Do everything you can to stay "on the level", lest you become the story, instead of what you're trying to report.

Re:Its hard to tell (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057559)

but a pretty obvious function of, "err on the side of keeping stuff secret."

In other words, it's a perfect example of the evil 'safety and secrecy are more important than freedom and privacy' mindset. Like the TSA, the Patriot Act, and all other sorts of nonsense that the government has been forcing on us.

Re:Its hard to tell (2, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year ago | (#43057613)

WRT lessons learned: Don't deal with wikileaks. Deal with proper news outlets carefully. Don't deal with shady 3rd parties over IRC. Do everything you can to stay "on the level", lest you become the story, instead of what you're trying to report.

Which is exactly the lesson the government wants you to take away from this situation.
Do not go against the establishment or the establishment will make an example of you.

Steve Biko, Victoria Mxenge, Neil Agget and tens of thousands more all paid an even higher price for going against the establishment.

Re:Its hard to tell (1, Interesting)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about a year ago | (#43057153)

Given that the only people who knew what was in the files before BM were the people in the government, it's hard to see why it'd cause any changes in government policy. It did embarrass a bunch of politicians in other parts of the world (and revealed a US spy in the German government), but mostly these days those other parts are too focused on domestic economic problems to think much about foreign policy.

I think the impact of what Manning did is real, but it'll be a slow burn, long term kind of thing. People read day after day in the news about the US drone strike program, but whilst ink on paper is one thing, seeing a video of a bunch of journalists get nuked from the air is something quite different. It really brings it home to people in ways other mediums just can't. The other thing it did is expose to what extent much of the rest of the world had become servile to US interests, for instance, the al-Masri story was quite shocking and I think the cables were really the first time hard evidence surfaced that it was true. Before that the best evidence that the story was correct was isotopic testing of his hair. It also revealed that the German government had basically been penetrated and owned by the CIA at several levels.

Just generally there's a ton of useful background on so many issues in those cables that people will be using them as evidence to back up positions for years to come.

Re:Its hard to tell (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057437)

" People read day after day in the news about the US drone strike program, but whilst ink on paper is one thing, seeing a video of a bunch of journalists get nuked from the air is something quite different."

Except the insipidly titled "collateral murder" had nothing to with drones. It was footage from an Apache gunship.

Re:Its hard to tell (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43057591)

" People read day after day in the news about the US drone strike program, but whilst ink on paper is one thing, seeing a video of a bunch of journalists get nuked from the air is something quite different."

Except the insipidly titled "collateral murder" had nothing to with drones. It was footage from an Apache gunship.

The point was akwardly made, but you still had a responsibility to try to understand it before wasting our time with a comment. People hear about murders due to drone strikes all the time, but that sort of thing seems impersonal on many levels. This was a case of humans willfully blowing up humans, and we had footage of a kind most of us had never seen before, unless they managed to catch some of the very best footage of Waco. And no, there were no helicopters there either, but yet there's still a parallel to be drawn. See if you can figure out what it is before you drop another bomb like your last comment.

HOSTS file would have prevented his arrest (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43056879)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.

Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

Disproof of all apk's statements:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040729&cid=40949719
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040697&cid=40949343
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040597&cid=40948659
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40947927
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040425&cid=40946755
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40942439
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3024445&cid=40942207
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40942031
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038601&cid=40942085
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040803&cid=40950045
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040867&cid=40950563
http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40950839
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041035&cid=40951899
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952169
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041091&cid=40952383
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40952991
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954201
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956625
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897177
http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40894889
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40886171
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042451&cid=40959497
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042547&cid=40960279
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042669&cid=40962027
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=40965091
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=40965087
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967049
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972117
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972271
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972313
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045349&cid=40973979
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3046181&cid=40978835
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3046211&cid=40979293
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3050711&cid=41002319
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3118863&cid=41341925
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3131751&cid=41397971
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429005
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3146511&cid=41469199
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3146549&cid=41469495
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509255
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555261
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832417
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41846971
http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861263
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228787&cid=41866351
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228683&cid=41866627
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41866737
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41868513
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41868567
http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869275f
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229765&cid=41872927
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939773
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972349
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981835
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42988415
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3500483&cid=43026797
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028205
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43033535
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3504883&cid=43040365
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044767
http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3507727&cid=43048175
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3507873&cid=43049019
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051385
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3509683&cid=43054221
AND MANY MORE

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

That's the kind of martial arts I practice.

Leaving this site forever (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43056891)

As a retired traveling salesman who is currently living out his "golden years" in beautiful Myrtle Beach, SC, I have plenty of spare time. In recent years, too much of this spare time has been spent on Slashdot. I have spent hour upon hour arguing with many of you, and I have done so because your opinions are, quite frankly, wrong. And it has become clear that all of this arguing has been in vain, because you are beyond hope.

Just out of curiosity, do those of you who post wrong opinions know that you're wrong, and you keep posting them just to get under the skin of those of us who are right? Or do you honestly believe some of this nonsense? Either way, I'm done trying to shine the light of reason. Frankly, I have had it. I have had it up to here with all of this tenacious, bull-headed piggishness. To my many friends, I bid you a fond farewell. To my copious enemies, I inform you that you won't have Chuck Wilson to kick around any more. I've absorbed all of the abuse that I can take. Rest assured that as soon as I hit "Submit", I will head for greener pastures. I'll not be back.

Re:Leaving this site forever (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43056913)

fag.

Re:Leaving this site forever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43056953)

I will head for greener pastures. I'll not be back.

We don't remember you and we don't care if you leave. The pompous exit routine isn't making you any friends either.

Re:Leaving this site forever (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43056965)

I agree. There's an obvious liberal/conservative/libertarian/communist bias on Slashdot that makes it intolerable. It's gotten to the point where I don't even know what the groupthink will be on any given article, and I'm sick of trying to guess, just so that I can stay a part of the herd. Slashdot has become too stressful, and I'm outta here!

I'm going to reddit, where the groupthink is substantially easier to predict.

Re:Leaving this site forever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43056989)

no one cares

Re:Leaving this site forever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057177)

You can't just leave! This is important! Somebody is wrong on the internets!

Re:Leaving this site forever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057179)

Don't forget your complimentary pint of frosty piss and as a farewell prize we have limited edition, signed goatse poster.

So long thanks for playing.

Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (5, Interesting)

anagama (611277) | about a year ago | (#43056903)

Read this by Harvard Law prof, Yochai Benkler:

The Dangerous Logic of the Bradley Manning Case:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112554# [newrepublic.com]

If Bradley Manning is convicted of aiding the enemy, the introduction of a capital offense into the mix would dramatically elevate the threat to whistleblowers. The consequences for the ability of the press to perform its critical watchdog function in the national security arena will be dire. And then there is the principle of the thing. However technically defensible on the language of the statute, and however well-intentioned the individual prosecutors in this case may be, we have to look at ourselves in the mirror of this case and ask: Are we the America of Japanese Internment and Joseph McCarthy, or are we the America of Ida Tarbell and the Pentagon Papers? What kind of country makes communicating with the press for publication to the American public a death-eligible offense?

Note, the espionage act doesn't apply only to people in the military.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (1)

turkeydance (1266624) | about a year ago | (#43056963)

it makes us all of that. good/bad/ugly. we're all that. bring everything to the table and present your side with evidence. convince a sample of the population. yes, it's been done before.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (5, Insightful)

Brucelet (1857158) | about a year ago | (#43057025)

The press has already been so grossly compromised by corporate influence that it's "critical watchdog function" isn't currently all that functional anyway

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057211)

It has been compromised less by corporate interests and more compromised by left-leaning ideologues. I don't know if you pay much attention to the major news networks, but they are all pushing the same points of view, the same stories, all in the same way. It isn't an accident.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (1)

Demena (966987) | about a year ago | (#43057523)

Um... Murdoch is a left-leaning ideologue? Really?

Just wondering how you could possibly come to that conclusion.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (4, Insightful)

greenbird (859670) | about a year ago | (#43057465)

he press has already been so grossly compromised by corporate influence that it's "critical watchdog function" isn't currently all that functional anyway

Yup. And that's why organizations like Wikileaks and technology like encryption and Tor are so critical. They've taken over that function. Actually they're even better for that function because there much less likely to be influenced by political pressure of any kind.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (-1, Flamebait)

ChrisMaple (607946) | about a year ago | (#43057093)

Japanese internment: typical progressive racist abuse.

Joseph McCarthy: maligned publicist of enemies within the government.

Ida Tarbell: muckraker deliberately misinterpreting the data she found

Pentagon papers: common knowledge that should never have been classified in the first place; nonetheless if the source had ever been found, that person should have been executed.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (2)

mosb1000 (710161) | about a year ago | (#43057493)

Pentagon papers: common knowledge that should never have been classified in the first place

Really? It certainly was big news.

nonetheless if the source had ever been found, that person should have been executed

Just because you attach two sentences with a semicolon doesn't mean they logically flow into each other. Reaching this conclusion is insanity. You're saying we should kill whistleblowers, and you aren't giving any good reason at all for that assessment. You come off as being senseless and bloodthirsty.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43057533)

Pentagon papers: common knowledge that should never have been classified in the first place

Really? It certainly was big news.

I just went through this on G+ with a douchebag who thought we learned nothing from the release of the video. It was big news even to our shitty media, but apparently it was of no actual consequence.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057215)

He signed and swore oaths to protect the classified information he was entrusted to access, he revealed information that directly compromised the protective measures used by our troops and identified confidential informants working to aid our forces, with several of them since being murdered. In doing so, he provided aid and comfort to enemies with whom our forces were in daily direct combat. His claims of having vetted that information to prevent the release of information that would cause harm to our troops is provably false by the volume of information he released, further, he did not have the training or experience to make that determination. He's a traitor and deserves a traitor's death, that he tries to cloak his treason in claims of giving the public insight into the realities of warfare does not change the fact that he committed treason and violated the articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice that govern access to classified information.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057383)

He signed and swore oaths to protect the classified information he was entrusted to access

And the military swore to protect follow certain rules. They broke it first and Manning would not have broken his oath unless they had done so.

He's a traitor and deserves a traitor's death

And you are a traitor to everything that is good and right, what the fuck is your excuse?

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (2)

mosb1000 (710161) | about a year ago | (#43057501)

And you are a traitor to everything that is good and right, what the fuck is your excuse?

The person you're responding to is clearly a brain-dead asshole. Asking him for an excuse is like asking a scorpion why it stung you.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43057543)

Asking him for an excuse is like asking a scorpion why it stung you.

A scorpion would at least have a logical reason.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (4, Insightful)

Jessified (1150003) | about a year ago | (#43057255)

Al Qaeda is perhaps the most brilliant organization on this planet. With such limited resources, they sure have crippled this great, free country to a common dictatorship.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057419)

You've clearly never lived in a real dictatorship then if you think the US is a dictatorship.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (5, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#43057599)

Al Qaeda is perhaps the most brilliant organization on this planet. With such limited resources, they sure have crippled this great, free country to a common dictatorship.

People blame the terrorists for our plight, but let's look at this objectively: How much damage is this organization directly responsible for? A few buildings? Few thousand people dead? Whatever answer you come up with, even if you declare large swaths of the general population malignant, you can't approach the damage caused by our reaction.

If America fell, it wasn't because of the terrorists, but us. We allowed our elected representatives to do this to us. We voted them into office repeatedly, and willfully. There is no "it just fell from the sky and killed our country" option here. We did this to ourselves.

Point the finger in the right direction: Right back at you. Terrorists didn't do this, we did.

Re:Before all you blowhards cheer the Feds ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057615)

If Bradley Manning is convicted of aiding the enemy

... then the prosecution will have proven that this was Manning's intent, so what's the problem?

the introduction of a capital offense into the mix would dramatically elevate the threat to whistleblowers

Bradley Manning is not a whistleblower. He did not intend to expose wrongdoing. He simply dumped as much classified data into the public domain as he could.

What kind of country makes communicating with the press for publication to the American public a death-eligible offense?

Where is this coming from? The initial claim was that Manning might be convicted of aiding the enemy, that he "knowingly and intentionally provides intelligence to the enemy through the indirect means". Manning can only be convicted if he communicated with the press for publication to the enemy, not the American people.

This is coming from a law professor?

Restated in terms of staying on topic:

What kind of country makes communicating military secrets to the press for intentional publication to the enemy a death-eligible offense?

Consider that question, not a straw man.

Torturing ants (3, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | about a year ago | (#43056929)

The quote about how the US is similar to a child torturing ants with a magnifying glass really sums the situation up for me. As someone in Europe I see the US forcing their way into war after war to justify having a military that has grown out of all control. A country that uses torture as an interrogation technique should not consider itself civilized.

Re:Torturing ants (0, Flamebait)

dietdew7 (1171613) | about a year ago | (#43056961)

Are you from one of the European nations without blood on its hands? Remind me, which one is that?

Re:Torturing ants (5, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | about a year ago | (#43056985)

Ahh, the very fine "your ancestors did something evil so you can't point out my current evil" retort. Brilliant. Settles the case for sure!

Re:Torturing ants (0)

dietdew7 (1171613) | about a year ago | (#43057261)

Yes, it's not like the parent poster was damning an entire nation of over 300,000,000. You would be surprised at how little control over the government the average man on the street has.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Demena (966987) | about a year ago | (#43057583)

I don't see how this argument applies.

The use of torture appears to be continuing to this day. The user 1s33c (correct or incorrect) was pointing out current, not ancestral, practices. Nor did the user say anything about his country of origin.

So what exactly did you mean by your post? Was it an attempt to obfuscate the issue?

Re:Torturing ants (4, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | about a year ago | (#43056997)

Are you from one of the European nations without blood on its hands? Remind me, which one is that?

No, of course I'm not. But I'm from one that learned from the mistakes of the past and after centuries of war learned to get on with its neighbors.

Re:Torturing ants (4, Insightful)

Ogi_UnixNut (916982) | about a year ago | (#43057075)

You do realise that a lot of countries in the EU have been implicated in the torture and the ferrying of suspects to other countries with more lax rules on "interrogation methods"?

If there is one thing that the western European nations have not done, it is learn from the past, the same stuff is still going on today, including ignoring/violating international law when it suits them. The difference is that now they have the media to gloss over and sugercoat it so the citizens honestly feel they are the good guys.

Re:Torturing ants (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057103)

I hope your country isn't part of the UN. The UN has been the puppet organization of the Europeans for when they want to swing the sword of US military might. That's really what it comes down to. If your country is a member of the UN than you haven't "learned to get along" with anyone, you've just found a way of declaring war via global opinion as opposed the the old fashion way of just throwing down the gauntlet.

Ignorance and hypocrisy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057389)

I'm sure then you'd have no qualms with funding/aiding/arranging for my escape from the US and into your great land? I mean, being such an enlightened citizen of an enlightened nation and all.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057021)

"But but but YOU did it too!" doesn't make it any less wrong. Nice try.

Re:Torturing ants (3, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | about a year ago | (#43057065)

"But but but YOU did it too!" doesn't make it any less wrong. Nice try.

No country in Europe has ever destroyed two entire countries because a group part based in one destroyed two buildings.

I've heard of avenging a crime sevenfold but a country for a building represents vengeance carried way too far.

Re:Torturing ants (3, Insightful)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#43057137)

Baloney.

WW I was based on the assassination of a single individual.

Re:Torturing ants (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057333)

"WW I was based on the assassination of a single individual."

Actually, it was *triggered by* the assassination of a single individual. The root causes were far deeper than that, and had been building for quite a while.

Re:Torturing ants (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057391)

To be fair, this was the case with the US attack on Iraq following 9/11. After all, attacking a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with the attacks and causing the deaths of over 100,000 innocents makes absolutely no sense unless you understand the deeper roots.

100,000 were killed because Saddam "is the guy who tried to kill my dad."

See? Simple, proportionate response.

Re:Torturing ants (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057417)

WW I was based on the assassination of a single individual.

Not to mention the war for Jenkins's ear, when England went to war because a Spanish captain was accused of cutting off the ear of an English captain something like a decade earlier...

Or the Napoleonic wars, which destroyed several countries in the name of bringing freedom to people living under dictatorships...

Or al-Qaeda's war in Mali, which Europe financed [bbc.co.uk] (second source) [nytimes.com]...

Or the ongoing war [hirhome.com] against the Jews, which Europe is funding [gatestoneinstitute.org] (as is the US)....

Europeans might say that it's not really war if they are paying someone else to fight a war in another country outside of Europe, but that does not explain Europe's support for the war against the Serbs [tenc.net] in Yugoslavia, in which NATO helpfully bombed the forces of secular Yugoslavia -- including those of the liberal Muslim co-governor of Bosnia -- on behalf of an alliance of Croatia's Nazi party and a Muslim force organized by Osama bin Laden... and then they did it again in Kosovo, which had been majority-Serb since medieval times and is now down to about 10% Serb due to the war.

Europe is far from innocent, including modern Europe.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057151)

What was colonization? Destroying many civilizations just because they were there?

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Livius (318358) | about a year ago | (#43057187)

How is that vengeance? They haven't destroyed anything in Saudi Arabia. Not yet at least.

Re:Torturing ants (2)

greenbird (859670) | about a year ago | (#43057527)

No country in Europe has ever destroyed two entire countries because a group part based in one destroyed two buildings.

I don't know where you're from but apparently they don't teach history there. One little island nation in Europe has invaded 90% of the worlds countries [telegraph.co.uk] at one time or another. And they needed no justification what so ever other than they were trying to "civilize" them. I also seem to recall this little interlude where one of those silly little nations in the middle of Europe went on a rampage destroying many more than 2 nations and slaughtering millions for no reason at all some 80 years ago.

They didn't just destroy 2 buildings. They killed 10,000 people. I realize the slaughter of 10,000 people is really nothing by the standards of European history given the millions that they have slaughtered over the years.

What idiots modded that insightful?

Re:Torturing ants (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057027)

Most European nations have done terrible things in the past and to a lesser degree in the present. I am not proud of being British, slavery, oppression and empire, all under that banner.

However the US is the >current main player in the west and the key global enabler for war, torture and economic oppression. If the argument is that Europeans did things equally awful in the past, which i doubt anyone disputes... That excuses the current crop of Muslim extremists, because Christians did awful things in the past too.

Re:Torturing ants (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057335)

Ireland. And no fighting for freedom doesn't count as "forcing your way into a war". I believe Finland is also fairly spotless.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Elbereth (58257) | about a year ago | (#43057073)

Paraphrasing Madeleine Albright: "What's the point of having such a powerful military, if we never use it?"

It's there, so we use it. If it weren't there, we wouldn't be using it.

Re:Torturing ants (5, Insightful)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | about a year ago | (#43057311)

Paraphrasing Madeleine Albright: "What's the point of having such a powerful military, if we never use it?"

The Founders were smart enough to realize the temptations of a standing army, and tried to put safeguards against one into the Constitution. That's part of what the Second Amendment is about -- not just the RKBA, but a structural defense against the formation of a military-industrial complex by relying on a militia rather than a large standing army. Too bad we opted for an empire instead; they never end well.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#43057413)

Nonsense. Article I section VIII of the Constitution of the United States of America gives Congress the enumerated power:

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be
for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

One of the first military acts of the Republic was to establish a standing Navy in order to protect trade. cf the Naval Act of 1794.

One of the ships built from funds thereby appropriated is still in service. I had the chance to visit her a few years ago.

Re:Torturing ants (-1, Flamebait)

ChrisMaple (607946) | about a year ago | (#43057127)

A country that uses torture as an interrogation technique should not consider itself civilized.

Never drop context, which in this case is the 3000+ deaths of September 11, 2001.

Re:Torturing ants (5, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | about a year ago | (#43057191)

Civilized human beings do not torture their enemies, ever. There is no context that justifies TORTURING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, EVER.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

ScentCone (795499) | about a year ago | (#43057319)

Civilized human beings do not torture their enemies, ever.

What a relief, then, that the same waterboarding that thousands of US troops voluntarily go through so they see that it's not torture wasn't actually torture when it was used to help a handful of guys focus their minds on what they were a part of.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year ago | (#43057525)

What a relief, then, that the same waterboarding that thousands of US troops voluntarily go through so they see that it's not torture

Yes, those troops volunteer to be waterboarded so that they will see that waterboarding is not torture. That's totally why they do it.

Re:Torturing ants (3, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | about a year ago | (#43057205)

A country that uses torture as an interrogation technique should not consider itself civilized.

Never drop context, which in this case is the 3000+ deaths of September 11, 2001.

How many people died as a result of the US reaction to the 3000+ deaths of September 11, 2001? How many of those dead had no involvement whatsoever in the September 11, 2001 attacks?

Re:Torturing ants (4, Insightful)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#43057281)

Using torture is a war crime. It is not acceptable nor is it productive. Senior US military command is on record stating it is immoral and counter-productive. It should never happen and those who engage in it, foster it or approve it should be prosecuted.

Re:Torturing ants (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43057551)

A country that uses torture as an interrogation technique should not consider itself civilized.

Never drop context, which in this case is the 3000+ deaths of September 11, 2001.

No one is dropping the context. It is considered, and found irrelevant, because you still don't get to claim the moral high ground when you do it. We're no better than they are, we only have different customs.

Re:Torturing ants (4, Informative)

Misagon (1135) | about a year ago | (#43057587)

I am sorry that you still believe that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were "wars against terrorism". Missions into these countries were already planned before September 11, 2011.

Do read up on the organisation Project for the New American Century [wikipedia.org].
Read what the PNAC had been lobbying the Clinton administration to do, long before September 11, 2001, and do look at which high-ranking members of PNAC that had got high positions in the Bush administration in 2001.
This is not a theory of mine about a supposed secret conspiracy. It has been out in the open all the time. For years, PNAC had a public web site where all this information was available.

Torture is not only not civilized, it is also not reliable. The victim tends to not answer what the torturer wants to hear, not he truth.
Back in 2003, there was no indication whatsoever that Al-Qaeda had any connection with Saddam Hussein. The only testimony that there was a link had been obtained during torture - a testimony that was later proven to be false. After the invasion, no proof of any link had been found.

Re:Torturing ants (4, Insightful)

onyxruby (118189) | about a year ago | (#43057131)

Ah yes, because standing by and doing nothing while innocents are being slaughtered somehow lets you claim a clear conscious. Dictators and tyrants count on people like you to turn a blind eye to atrocities and genocide as it lets them get away with murder by the million.

Clean hands you have there, keep that chin up and remember useful idiots like yourself are as indispensable to mass murders like Stalin, Milosevic, Assad etc as their own armies. Carry on with pride, job well done, no blood on your hands at all. How's that Syria thing working out for you?

Re:Torturing ants (4, Interesting)

1s44c (552956) | about a year ago | (#43057229)

Ah yes, because standing by and doing nothing while innocents are being slaughtered somehow lets you claim a clear conscious. Dictators and tyrants count on people like you to turn a blind eye to atrocities and genocide as it lets them get away with murder by the million.

I was complaining about the US's war crimes, or don't they count as crimes if your own country does it?

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057367)

I was complaining about the US's war crimes, or don't they count as crimes if your own country does it?

Obviously not. The USA is the most free and democratic country in the world, and it has thus moral superiority. It's God's chosen country, and it will bring justice and vengeance to the world, and it will be victorious, as it has been in all its historical fights against Evil in the world.

Re:Torturing ants (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057489)

Clean hands you have there, keep that chin up and remember useful idiots like yourself are as indispensable to mass murders like Stalin, Milosevic, Assad etc as their own armies. Carry on with pride, job well done, no blood on your hands at all. How's that Syria thing working out for you?

On the other hand, the demand for hasty action leads to stupid foreign policy blunders like supporting fascist extremists conducting genocide in a war of their own aggression against relatively secular and moderate leaders like Slobodan Milosevic and Bashir Assad.

Compare Milosevic [emperors-clothes.com] to Izetbegovic [antiwar.com], and then read the news from Syria [atimes.com]: the rebels receiving foreign guns and money and winning military victories are explicitly al-Qaeda, while the Free Syrian Army is only a front group that pretends to be secular in front of Western audiences.

Re:Torturing ants (5, Interesting)

ATMAvatar (648864) | about a year ago | (#43057403)

Things are not quite so simple. Our continual war also serves to justify the indefinite imprisonment of non-citizens without trial, giant military contracts handed-out to friends of those in power, and widespread and warrant-less surveillance of the public at large, among other things. In short, it's a nice means to expand power and corruption in US government.

Re:Torturing ants (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057565)

How exactly is Europe better?
Correct me if I'm wrong but quite a few European countries gladly followed the US to Afghanistan and Irak (with the exception of France in Irak, but that's because of business not because France is a peace loving country, see Mali and countless other former colonies where France still regularly intervenes in internal affairs...)
Let's not forget all those dictators and general world class assholes silently storing their stolen millions in Swiss banks (Gaddafi, Mubarak, USA's BFF Saudi Royal Family). Switzerland, the great "always neutral" country. We also have Monaco, where a prince can shoot a guy for laughs and get away with it.

Europe has been castrated, but it hasn't changed much from a few centuries ago.

If you play James Bond (0, Offtopic)

Vinegar Joe (998110) | about a year ago | (#43056943)

You can expect to get your hair mussed.

Re:If you play James Bond (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057001)

You can expect to get to fuck a voluptuous brunette. ...if you don't have a clue, please don't post.

Re:If you play James Bond (0)

Vinegar Joe (998110) | about a year ago | (#43057609)

If you think you can steal classified documents and the government (any government) is going to turn around and pat you on the head and say "Good boy!", you're even more stupid than Manning.

Slashdot is a social gathering and it is being.... (0)

3seas (184403) | about a year ago | (#43056971)

....watched....So it good that people pursue the claiming nothing came of this.... So how many other reasons are there for the increase of gun and ammo sales?

The pitty of it all (-1, Troll)

das3cr (780388) | about a year ago | (#43057011)

is that he wont have to answer for the deaths of his fellow service members his reckless actions caused.

1. He's a traitor.
2. He should he executed. I know he isn't. Not by the Gov.t Once again, we have to hope that the deserved final justice will be handed out by the people we have already convicted.

Re:The pitty of it all (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057283)

Commit suicide as urgently as you possibly can.

he may get a code red (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057415)

And this time you will have to to handle the truth

Re:The pitty of it all (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057603)

What does Obama's asshole taste like?

Only capital punishment fits (4, Insightful)

julian67 (1022593) | about a year ago | (#43057109)

Only capital punishment fits in a case like this because there are two factors so serious that no lesser punishment is appropriate.

The first is that the offender gave greater weight to his conscience than to the power of his state. He disobeyed orders and statute. Any student of 20th century history will tell you that blind obedience is the glue that binds successful societies and engenders success, safety and justice.

The second is that the offender communicated with people so depraved that they openly engage in journalism, a pursuit that has the potential to inform taxpayers and voters such that they eventually become able to make rational choices and decisions, regardless of the wishes of their superiors.

This has to stop now, and any repetition or emulation be discouraged by the least ambiguous means available.

Re:Only capital punishment fits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057201)

Sad thing is that I am not sure that this gets picked up as trolling anymore by those in power :(

tl;dr (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057517)

Holy crap what a long, rambling, pointless statement. Here's what I heard:

Blah, blah, blah, I put information from the SIPRnet on NIPRnet, blah blah blah...

Well, if that's the case then, YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR! GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO!

I SAID GOOD DAY!

That twerpy little douche deserves everything that's coming to him in prison.

Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead (Partyvan edition!) (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43057519)

Memorable quotes for
Looker (1981)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/quotes [imdb.com]

"John Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages *submit* to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a *free* people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a *box* with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, that's power."

##

"The United States has it's own propaganda, but it's very effective because people don't realize that it's propaganda. And it's subtle, but it's actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but it's funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, it's funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it really serves people's thinking - it can stupify and make not very good things happen."
- Crispin Glover: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000417/bio [imdb.com]

##

"It's only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because that's what people do. They conspire. If you can't get the message, get the man." - Mel Gibson (from an interview)

##

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William Casey, CIA Director

##

"The real reason for the official secrecy, in most instances, is not to keep the opposition (the CIA's euphemistic term for the enemy) from knowing what is going on; the enemy usually does know. The basic reason for governmental secrecy is to keep you, the American public, from knowing - for you, too, are considered the opposition, or enemy - so that you cannot interfere. When the public does not know what the government or the CIA is doing, it cannot voice its approval or disapproval of their actions. In fact, they can even lie to your about what they are doing or have done, and you will not know it. As for the second advantage, despite frequent suggestion that the CIA is a rogue elephant, the truth is that the agency functions at the direction of and in response to the office of the president. All of its major clandestine operations are carried out with the direct approval of or on direct orders from the White House. The CIA is a secret tool of the president - every president. And every president since Truman has lied to the American people in order to protect the agency. When lies have failed, it has been the duty of the CIA to take the blame for the president, thus protecting him. This is known in the business as "plausible denial." The CIA, functioning as a secret instrument of the U.S. government and the presidency, has long misused and abused history and continues to do so."
- Victor Marchetti, Propaganda and Disinformation: How the CIA Manufactures History

##

George Carlin:

"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club.

This country is finished."

##

[1967] Jim Garrison Interview "In a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you can't spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You can't look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won't be there. We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn't the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same. I've learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I've always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government's basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I've come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism." I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."

##

"Everything we see has some hidden message. A lot of awful messages are coming in under the radar - subliminal consumer messages, all kinds of politically incorrect messages..." - Harold Ramis

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...