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Planescape: Torment Successor Funded In 6 Hours

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the give-the-people-what-they-want dept.

Role Playing (Games) 118

New submitter abuelos84 writes "Just a few hours after the Kickstarter project was opened to the public, Torment: Tides of Numenera, successor of the legendary Planescape:Torment, had been funded. In the dev's own words: 'Our heads are still spinning at the incredible response we have had from today's support of our Kickstarter campaign. We had plans to roll out our stretch goals and to write our Kickstarter updates but never in our wildest dreams did we think we would fund this quickly!!! We are joyfully scrambling right now to get a longer update and some stretch goals in front of you as soon as we can. We should have more to say later today.'"

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Well no shit (5, Insightful)

razorshark (2843829) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099017)

People are DESPERATE for a game with meat and depth like the old RPGs of yesteryear. There are too many games with more concerned with quicktime events and cinematics than there are with story and character development. The big publishers seem to think that fluff is enough, but a gamer cannot survive on fluff alone.

Re:Well no shit (4, Insightful)

sheehaje (240093) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099115)

I think there are plenty of games with meat on them. The Witcher series has been excellent from a story telling perspective ... Skyrim, while predictable had a deep backstory - even some of the MMO's out there have good story telling and deep back stories. I think they just get lost because the market is so flooded now a days...

With that said, Planescape: Torement has to be one of the most memorable games I've ever played. I still remember the Nameless One and Morte - and I haven't played it in ages...

Re:Well no shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099293)

"Story" isn't meat. A modern emphasis on story is exactly what leads to crap like QTE and extended cutscenes. Skyrim is a remarkable achievement, but it's a grossly dumbed down RPG compared to previous Elder Scrolls games.

Re:Well no shit (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099917)

I'll take "dumbed down" over poor game mechanics any day of the week. Oblivion's leveling system punishes you for failing to micromanage your skill use properly, that's not good gameplay.

While I would have preferred something more along the lines of nGCD [nexusmods.com] , I've found that Skyrim's perk-centric character system actually works pretty well to encourage specialization. I've made three characters so far and they all play completely differently.

Re:Well no shit (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100663)

Oblivion was the worst game in the series on more respects than one - it underdelivered on both game mechanics and storyline. Morrowind is still the golden standard, and Skyrim definitely has a much more simplistic storyline in comparison to that.

Re:Well no shit (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101577)

Dragonborn was full of Morrowind style goodness, and I'll be honest I got pushing 20 hours out of it for DLC, they should have marketed it as an expansion more than anything. It made me giddy, skyrim though as a game and as a whole was a huge step up from Oblivion. And there are enough mods to make up for the shortfalls and make it almost like Morrowind.

Re:Well no shit (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101651)

Dragonborn is full of Morrowind stylistic references, but it's much simplified still. E.g. where are the guilds and the factions? Remember just how convoluted it got in Morrowind, especially with faction relations affecting their attitude towards you depending on your membership and rank?

Re:Well no shit (1)

phlinn (819946) | about a year and a half ago | (#43106133)

I'm sorry, I think daggerfall was worse than Oblivion in all respects.

Re:Well no shit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103105)

But that's what PS:T was; story. Everyone usually agrees the gameplay was lacking at best, but the writing was some of the best ever seen in a video game.

Re:Well no shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103597)

I don't think that it's just story people are after, I think it is actually tightly integrated story and game mechanics. Planescape: Torment showed how integrated the two were in nearly every conversation you had in the game, limiting or expanding your dialogue choices based on your ingame statistics. This gave more of an organic feeling to the player's progression, allowing different solutions to different problems based on what you'd specialized in before. I think one of the reasons the Mass Effect series was so popular was that they did somewhat similar things with their renegade / paragon options.

Plenty of games have a good story, plenty of games have good mechanics but it's a rare one that has both intertwined so delicately. And a talking skull. And a bar with a guy who is constantly on fire.

Re:Well no shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099171)

So we'll have the ivory-tower choice between people able to use weapons, people with some skills they can use, and people able to rewrite reality to perform miracles in a not-quite-at-will method that will probably have strong shades of vancian.

Is this going to have ANYTHING to do with planescape in word, deed or spirit? Descent:Freespace sure didn't, but at least we were lucky enough to get an incredible game from that one.

I can't help but wonder about Numenera.

Re:Well no shit (1, Funny)

mad flyer (589291) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099485)

Quick time events...

dear god grandpa... you are showing your age...

Re:Well no shit (1)

Hatta (162192) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099769)

Is there another term for them?

Re:Well no shit (1)

Tacticus.v1 (1102137) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100011)

Shitty annoying fucking stupid events is my preferred option

Re:Well no shit (4, Interesting)

grumbel (592662) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099787)

What I find a little surprising is that Dreamfall: Chapters [kickstarter.com] has a far harder time making money then those old RPGs. When it comes to storytelling in games The Longest Journey and Planescape Torment are almost always mentioned as one of the best examples, yet Dreamfall: Chapters, which is a sequel to TLJ, has only made 1.2mil so far, enough to get funded, but it took them 25 days, not a few hours. Guess there are a lot more old RPG gamers then adventure gamers around.

Re:Well no shit (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100057)

Dreamfall is no where near loved as much as torment. Dreamfall pretty much missed most gamers radar.

Re:Well no shit (4, Informative)

mcvos (645701) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100215)

The Longest Journey and Dreamfall: Chapters are not remotely as well known as Planescape: Torment. Almost everybody I know has heard of Torment. It's mentioned constantly all over the place. This is the first time I hear of TLJ or Dreamfall.

Re:Well no shit (1)

Yobgod Ababua (68687) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101379)

QFT. And we ain't no spring chickens neither,

Re:Well no shit (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102335)

TLJ was a great game, but the sequel Dreamfall was terrible. Will Dreamfall: Chapters be as terrible as Dreamfall? Or as good as The Longest Journey. It was not something I wanted to bet money on.

Re:Well no shit (1)

RadioElectric (1060098) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102801)

I agree, Dreamfall was a disappointment. It felt like work to get through, and most of that was fueled by my love of TLJ. The gameplay was awful (and hard! I don't know many people who bothered to finish it because there were some sequences that were a brick wall difficulty-wise), and the story finished with a very unsatisfying cliffhanger ending. For a couple of years after I played it I would have been excited to find out what happened next. Now though I have kind-of written it off. If I hear it is good when it comes out I will pick it up.

Re:Well no shit (3, Insightful)

Mike Frett (2811077) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099963)

Actually, I just bought 'Eschalon Book I' for Linux a few hours ago out of pure curiosity, very surprised I was at the quality of this RPG. I'm gonna buy Book II and Book III when it arrives, I'm just overjoyed that the old style RPGs are still being made by a small company that cares.

Tides of Numenera was pimping Linux support also, so that's a good thing, thumbs up.

Re:Well no shit (4, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101839)

"People are DESPERATE for a game with meat and depth like the old RPGs of yesteryear."

I disagree with your characterization; I have been playing CRPGs since the 1980's and some of the best ones I've played have been relatively recent. Fallout 3 (ok, not SUPER recent) and Mass Effect for example. In fact, when I compile my list of the best CRPGs made they are spread widely through that time period. I think why people want a Planescape:Torment-style game was because Planescape:Torment was quite simply the best computer/video game ever made, not because it was representative of a larger group of games. It was a unique achievement.

The fact that Chris Avellone isn't involved and that it can't use the Planescape universe does not fill me with undue optimism, but I do trust Brian Fargo (I consider the original Wasteland in my Top 5 of All Time as well) and I will definitely try the game.

Re:Well no shit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102557)

I have been playing CRPGs since the 1980's and some of the best ones I've played have been relatively recent. Fallout 3
You mean the worst game in the series, aside from that thing they made using the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance engine?

Re:Well no shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43104383)

Like so many things in life - Tastes vary.

I enjoyed Fallout 1 at the time. I thought Fallout 2 was very meh and lost interest in it.
I really enjoyed Fallout 3 myself - I spent hundreds of hours roaming the capital wasteland and enjoying it.
In contrast - I am having a tough time even finishing New Vegas because I honestly *don't care* what happens to the Mojave because almost all of its inhabitants are assholes... :)

Re:Well no shit (1)

Faw (33935) | about a year and a half ago | (#43103287)

Playing CRPG since the 80s and as the best you mention Fallout 3? Fallout 3 was prettier, but thats the problem, prettier is not better. Fallout 1 was better, Baldur's Gate was better, Planetscape:Torment was better. Hell, even the old TSR goldbox RPGs were better (Pool of Radiance, Champions of Krynn and my favourite Buck Rogers).

Re:Well no shit (1)

nomadic (141991) | about a year and a half ago | (#43104879)

Fallout 1 was definitely not better; it was a very, very good game but as a game I think Fallout 3 is superior. The old TSR goldbox RPGs were dreadful, they played like wargames, not RPGs, is basically what you could expect when giving the job to SSI which was a mistake.

Re:Well no shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103345)

Could I get some crowd funding for my own indie game please?
Hard to get something when one is an unknown in the gaming industry.

But wow Torment was an awesome game. Great story, endless written lines.
Played that game 3 times from start to finish and always discovered something new.

Good luck (3, Insightful)

imsabbel (611519) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099027)

That seems a bit like crowd sourceing a successor to the Lord of the Rings.

Getting the money is easy, but getting a product out, after all the time and all the dispersed talent, that does not suck in comparison to the original, that is a challenge

Re:Good luck (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099117)

With the RPG dream team they have working on it and the fantastic new setting, I have faith that it'll turn out okay.

Re:Good luck (4, Interesting)

Dan667 (564390) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099141)

I have pretty much zero concern that Torment: Tides of Numenera will be anything less than awesome. They did a Kickstarter for Wasteland 2 before this and Inexile have been very transparent about the development of that game and the early game play video looks great.

Re:Good luck (0)

zlives (2009072) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099451)

yes but i almost think i would like them to focus on wasteland and finish it quicker... if they have the extra time/resources?!
i will buy this when it comes out, i did back wasteland2

Re:Good luck (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099577)

They are finishing wasteland 2. The writers and concept artists have nothing to do currently. Soon the graphics people will have nothing to do, then the programmers and so on. Large studios will happily lay off people between games as soon as their part is done. InXile is dedicated to not being like those large studios.

Re:Good luck (5, Informative)

prehistoricman5 (1539099) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099637)

They explain why they are doing that in the kickstarter. They don't want to lay off their concept artists while they finish WL2 because they actually have 1.5 development teams.

Re:Good luck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103273)

Yeah, they should send their story writers to programming school so they can help write engine code!

Re:Good luck (3, Insightful)

eth1 (94901) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099777)

I have pretty much zero concern that Torment: Tides of Numenera will be anything less than awesome. They did a Kickstarter for Wasteland 2 before this and Inexile have been very transparent about the development of that game and the early game play video looks great.

What made Planescape:Torment one of the best games ever wasn't something that would ever show in a gameplay video. It was the story and character development that kept you desperate to keep uncovering more. I think that was the only game I've ever played where I went straight through from Friday night to 3 am Monday morning with nothing but bathroom breaks and a snack or two. Not even Fallout was that good. I think part of the reason was that the story was a very personal struggle, and really got you emotionally invested in the outcome, rather than the standard "time to go save the world" plot.

It sounds like they're trying to head that direction again, but the only way to tell will be to play through... Definitely hoping they can do it, though.

Re:Good luck (3, Insightful)

Miseph (979059) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100531)

Yeah, when I tell people to play it, I'm always a little stumped when they ask what makes the gameplay so good... frankly it isn't: it has a lot of bugs, the graphics are less than impressive, the controls are far from ideal, the magic system borders on useless, the combat is unchallenging, and NONE OF THAT MATTERS AT ALL.

The point of Torment isn't any of those things, the point of Torment is the chill that runs down your spine during conversations with Ignuus, the point of Torment is feeling you heart race as the Lady's shadow falls over you, the point of Torment is the soul crushing revelation of What Can Change The Nature Of A Man. None of those things make any sense in a 30 second demo, or even in a 30 minute demo.

Re:Good luck (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101005)

And those things don't work as strings of cutscenes either. They need the RPG to make you invested.

Re:Good luck (2)

myowntrueself (607117) | about a year and a half ago | (#43103155)

My personal favorite discovery in Torment was the micro-story:

A man finds himself in a swamp, a hag standing over him cackling. He has no memory of how he got there, he has no memory of who he is.

The hag says "And what will your third wish be?"
Bewildered he asks "How can I have a third wish when I haven't had a first or second wish yet??"
The hag replies: "You have already had your first and second wishes and by their conditions I am not permitted to tell you what they were..."
The man thinks to himself, "Well it can't hurt to play along..."
"Very well," he says to the hag, "I should wish to know who I am."
The hag laughs saying "That was your first wish!" Then, granting the wish, vanishes forever".

This story is so compact, so compressed and carries so much implication...

It was the same with Fallout. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102887)

Fallout 2 less so, by quite a lot, but the ending of Fallout was tragic.

Planescape: Torment for very much the same reasons: the protagonist you played and got into for so long had a tragic ending, yet one you could see "fit" the story and wasn't done merely to create a downer ending.

The ending of Shadows of Amn was good too, but in this case seeing Irenicus (and the actor they got to do that character was an inspired choice) get his Just Desserts, yet he was still a psychopath and still went down fighting (with a different motivation from The Unnamed One from Planescape which was more resigned to their fate and faced it) made it.

I think the endings were a large reason why people still love these games. A crappy ending like at the end of Half-Life Opposing Forces killed that, when HL had all those poor alien leves but a decent genuine cliffhanger ending meant people forgave it.

Re:It was the same with Fallout. (1)

myowntrueself (607117) | about a year and a half ago | (#43103307)

Actually, my favorite ending in Planescape: Torment was where I killed myself, in the castle built of regrets and sorrows, beyond the planes, where when I cut myself with the very special blade and I could finally die and join Deonarra as I promised her I would. That was the greatest ending of any game I ever played.

I played it through several times, to the various endings but that was the one that really got to me.

But yeah, Irenicus' voice actor was truly an inspired choice "Ahhh, the child of Bhaal has awoken. Time for more... experiments".

Re:It was the same with Fallout. (1)

Clock Nova (549733) | about a year and a half ago | (#43103991)

"There. . . are. . . FOUR. . . lights!"

Re:Good luck (4, Informative)

LordLucless (582312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099403)

Getting the money is easy, but getting a product out, after all the time and all the dispersed talent, that does not suck in comparison to the original, that is a challenge

Have a look at the team they've got signed on to it:

  • Brian Fargo: Founded Interplay, the publisher of Planescape: Torment
  • Colin McCombe: Designed the pen-and-paper Planescape setting, and worked as a designer on Planescape: Torment
  • Monte Cook: One of the big names in D&D development. Helped develop the Planescape pen-and-paper setting, and did develop the setting for Numenera
  • Mark Morgan: Composer for Planescape: Torment

The only guy on their team who wasn't involved in Planescape: Torment is the project director.

Re:Good luck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43100075)

Big names mean little.

Kingdoms of Amalur had R.A. Salvatore doing the writing and Todd McFarlane and it ended up being pretty mediocre all around. Being consistent even with talent is hard.

Re:Good luck (1)

LordLucless (582312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101199)

The poster's problem was that the talent had disbursed. I showed that they'd managed to re-collect at least some of it.

Re:Good luck (2)

Your.Master (1088569) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102113)

R. A. Salvatore struggles to be a mediocre writer on a good day. If he can write a chapter without the phrase "purely on instinct [google.com] " it feels novel, though he probably ruined it with one of his other thousand writing tics. I kept a count in one book, and was annoyed to almost the point of physically illness when that phrase appeared three times in three pages referring to three different characters. You can basically only read one book or short series of his if you're an adult. He's the Harry Turtledove of Fantasy.

I'll grant that Salvatore writes those novels for a young teen audience, so he might do better if he tried for an older work. But I see no reason to assume he would. I'll also grant that he's a million times better than the likes of Ed Greenwood. Jesus. I only ever read the Kingless Land, but I find it difficult to believe that anybody who penned that monstrosity could ever produce a worthy book. And while Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman are much better authors than Salvatore (still not great authors, but readable and they can make interesting settings), at least Salvatore never tried to make the rapist a good guy. Fucking Skylan. I now have a policy of avoiding authors known for D&D or Star Wars books until I get an explicit recommendation otherwise, even though I was already avoiding the D&D and Star Wars books themselves.

Re:Good luck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102411)

They have people who designed and made the planescape world as a whole, not a guy who writes the fanfic after the fact.

Re:Good luck (2)

The Rizz (1319) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102769)

Big names mean little.

Kingdoms of Amalur had R.A. Salvatore doing the writing and Todd McFarlane and it ended up being pretty mediocre all around. Being consistent even with talent is hard.

...so they had two near-talentless hacks who got lucky with one big character working together, and you think it's odd that what they came up with was mediocre?

Re:Good luck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102811)

To be honest, I would expect nothing other than mediocrity from Salvatore.

What about the writers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43100101)

The writing is really what made Planescape so great.

Are the writers of the original game onboard?

Re:What about the writers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43100513)

Only some of them.

Re:Good luck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102285)

But no Chris Avellone.

Re:Good luck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102573)

But they do have Kevin Saunders, the man responsible for NWN2's Mask of the Betrayer expansion, which has been considered something of a spiritual successor to PS:T long before this Numenera thing came around. And it's fucking awesome and everybody who liked Torment should play it.

Re:Good luck (1)

Your.Master (1088569) | about a year and a half ago | (#43104059)

Interesting. I'd never thought of them as similar. Mask of the Betrayer is a bit more game-y and PS:T a bit more novel-y.

Re:Good luck (1)

Pirtan (2852547) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102667)

The main thing that these guys have created something truly amazing, and not some fake for ~ $ 3 million

A great shift in the force i feel (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099031)

It's like if million of voices screamed "shut up and take my money" at once.

Re:A great shift in the force i feel (1)

voidphoenix (710468) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102893)

rofl, this should be at +11 Funny :D

Fuck this shit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099033)

Fuck you fargo, fuck you tide of numanuma you ruin planetscape tournament forever with sequel bullshet

Re:Fuck this shit (4, Funny)

DrGamez (1134281) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099345)

Do you hurt your loved ones when giving them hugs?

Y'know, being this edgy and all?

How I feel about this (2)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099093)

On the one hand all these games being funded by Kickstarter are great because it means that they get to know they have a natural audience before they've made it. And it effectively lets people act in some sense like very small time investors but getting a product back as the result of the investment. The same goes for a lot of the other fun Kickstarted projects. But at another level, what ends up being successfully Kickstarted seems to not reflect well on people as a whole. Games, webcomics and other entertainment projects routinely get quickly Kickstarted, sometimes a lot over the funded level. However, at the same time, science projects and other genuinely helpful for humanity research projects struggle with their Kickstarters and almost never have this sort of response. Apparently when it comes to actually seeing where we'll spend money we'd all prefer fun games to actually learning about the universe or fighting disease.

Re:How I feel about this (1)

twocows (1216842) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099195)

You're really surprised by that? There's a reason the entertainment industry is booming while groups like Doctors Without Borders have to fight as hard as ever to get the funding they need.

That said, I don't think it's an inherently bad thing. Humanity isn't made of saints, so what? What matters is that a successor to one of the only games I've ever played with worthwhile writing is getting a sequel. People were never going to spend their entertainment money on anything else, so it may as well go to something worthy of it instead of a dumbed-down, DRM-encrusted version of SimCity or some other garbage.

Re: Doctors Without Borders (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099913)

Maybe then we need to make the science people "into a game". Hold on, before we get to shouting "dehumanized". While discouraging the practices of a certain specific game company, make what those guys do into a "sim(ulation) game". Pick your favorite doctor! Follow him as he dispenses medicine! Or works on a solution to a problem! "14% progress... 15% progress...". Count the lives saved/restored to health!

The graphics are "simple" in that top down 2D is an easy first level implementation.

But I bet someone will holler about the security risk so it might not happen.

Re:How I feel about this (3, Insightful)

LordLucless (582312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099445)

However, at the same time, science projects and other genuinely helpful for humanity research projects struggle with their Kickstarters

I wouldn't be surprised if they struggled with their Kickstarters, since Kickstarter is exclusively for creative projects:

Everything on Kickstarter must be a project. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it.

If you want to fund something with a nebulous goal, with the aim of helping someone, you make a donation, you don't pledge to a kickstarter. In a sense, donation-driven organisations are the oldest form of crowd-funding.

Re:How I feel about this (1)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099581)

Petridish is the scientific analog of Kickstarter, devoted specifically to scientific goals , and they've had much less success. Note also that Kickstarter itself has included science related projects that have narrow, specific goals. And they don't show this sort of success. The issue isn't anything to do with any specific systems goals or rules but what people will fund.

Re:How I feel about this (1)

RadioElectric (1060098) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102821)

Although you shouldn't think of it this way if you don't want to get burned eventually, people see funding a Kickstarter as an investment they put in to get something back from it. With science that wouldn't work, because you cannot honestly guarantee that you will get a result. It's the wrong format. I wonder about the relationship between Kickstarter games and illegal downloading. It would not surprise me if Kickstarted games avoided some of the losses that normally come from pirates ripping the software off because people need to put the money in initially for the project to get funded. You cannot count on pirating the sequel to Torment because if not enough people pay for it then it won't get made etc. Even if it is already funded, your own money going into it will add more capacity and make the game better.

Re:How I feel about this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103249)

How many people know about Kickstarter, compared to the number of people who know about (and really know about, not just heard the name and have a vague sense of what it is) Petridish?

Re:How I feel about this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43100901)

Dude, Kickstarter TOS explicitly prohibit medical devices.

I know that, because our lab looked into it.

Re:How I feel about this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43101495)

It doesn't help that I've seen a share of science=esque projects raising money on kickstarter or other crowd funding sources that actually involve very little science content. They end up doing better than some other science projects by having more cool-factor and amounting to more entertainment than actual research.

Part of the problem probably involves that a lot of them are targeting non-science people for money, who may not know what would be useful research, or what has been done before (some projects seem to just be half-ass, over-priced repetition of basic works from decades ago...). Where as video game related projects are going to be getting money from gamers who have some idea of what makes a good game.

I think I'll wait (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099139)

I think I'll wait for the reviews, I don't really know much of about the developer and the one game of theirs I've played didn't impress me. Maybe it was because they sucked at humor I dunno or maybe I'm just not the humors sort. Kickstarter is nice but you got to be careful any charlatan could promise you the moon and stars and deliver you nothing or worse a pile of shit.

I'm not really a huge kickstarter fan I've backed only two projects which were books by one of my favorite authors. Someone who had earned my trust. That said I'm not against it and will most likely end up buying Wasteland II soon after it comes out.

Re:I think I'll wait (2)

gweihir (88907) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099385)

My take is that about 50% of these Kickstarter Games will deliver on their promises to a reasonable degree. That is a great rate! Not only does that mean you pay the standard price for a good game, but these will be good games that would otherwise never have been made. Or to put it differently, a 50% chance of this working out is very, very reasonable at the price asked!

Re:I think I'll wait (2)

LordLucless (582312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099499)

And hey, for us Aussies, we're paying about a third of the standard price, since Kickstarter doesn't discriminate based on region, whereas we're gouged hard for traditional software purchases. Not to mention, if you're careful about what you back, you'll probably avoid a lot of the 50% failures.

Re:I think I'll wait (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about a year and a half ago | (#43104657)

Actually, the $25 price point on the kickstarter for the game is less than 50% of the standard price, even in the U.S. where games are cheap. I suppose that's partially because literally half the sticker price of a AAA game goes to marketing.

Bit3h (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099181)

Putting the cart before the horse (5, Interesting)

Daetrin (576516) | about a year and a half ago | (#43099515)

Perhaps i'm attempting to draw conclusions from a too small set of anecdotal data, but it seems like in some ways it's easier to kickstart these things than it is to get people to buy a published game that's already been through the development process.

I've contributed to Wasteland 2 and several other smaller game projects that looked particularly interesting to me, and i'll probably contribute to this too. Several of the games i've contributed to have already come, either in full or demo form, and i don't think i've played more than about 5-10 minutes total of all of them. Not because i'm not interested, i've just been busy.

Ni No Kuni is an awesome game. Or at least it sure looks awesome, and i've heard good things about it from friends. I've been interested in it for quite awhile. After the usual long wait for Japanese games it finally came out in the US about a month ago. Have i bought a copy yet? Nope. I don't have the time to play it right now, and it will still be there a few weeks, or a few months, or even a few years from now, in used format if nothing else. And the odds are it will only get cheaper as time goes on. I realize that i probably ought to buy a new copy sooner rather than later, just to encourage the development of those kinds of games, and maybe that motivation will manage to overcome the apathy about performing a task for which i will receive no immediate reward, but maybe not.

On the other hand the Kickstarter games require an up-front investment. If i want to be sure the game will exist for me to play in the future i need to put money down _now_. Even if the goal has already been met there are usually stretch goals, or at the very least one can generally calculate that the higher the funding the higher quality the game will eventually be.

And it certainly doesn't hurt that you can usually jump into a Kickstarter at a very low level. It looks like for Torment i can get a copy of the game for just $20. But if the tiers are structured intelligently then once i've decided i'm going to pledge _something_ it's often easy to talk myself up the ladder. "If i just add $5/$10/whatever more then i can get this extra cool thing!" And of course it's much easier to feel a connection with the developer when you're contributing to their campaign, unlike when you hand some cash over to a random GameStop employee. That's a pretty intangible benefit, but it does exit.

I realize that a big part of the "problem" here is just my own laziness at putting off buying new games, but Kickstarter definitely seems like a very neat solution to the "problem" in my particular case.

Re:Putting the cart before the horse (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100103)

"but it seems like in some ways it's easier to kickstart these things than it is to get people to buy a published game that's already been through the development process."

The opposite is true, publishers stopped making games like this because the market was not deemed big enough so there's all this pent up demand because publishers thumbed their noses at the people who put them on the map.

Interplay had a few bad flops and went out of business even though they made some of the best classic games. Interplay was behind Descent, Freespace 1 + 2. Games you'd not see today. Not to mention all the awesome stuff they did by releasing the source code for D1+D2 and Freespace. Totally unheard of today with modern games and their locked down nature.

Freespace 2 Open trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhAR8rWPluQ [youtube.com]

Re:Putting the cart before the horse (1)

Daetrin (576516) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100583)

Well first of all, just to be clear, when i say it's easier than getting people to buy a published game, i mean "easier than getting a game of this type through the publishing process and then getting enough of us to buy it in stores to make the publisher interested in doing it again."

Like you said, fair or not, the market was not deemed big enough for traditional publishers to support these kinds of games. You can blame whoever you want, publishers for blindly following trends, the FPS crowd for providing a trend to follow, the money people for choosing to focus on a smaller number of "sure thing" blockbusters, whatever. The empirical evidence is that this style of game used to be published much more frequently, but for whatever reason it has mostly died off in the traditional marketplace.

Likewise the empirical evidence currently seems to indicate that these games _can_ survive via Kickstarter, indie developers, and other alternate methods. I think part of it is bypassing the need to convince publishers that the sales will be "large enough" to risk funding it, and part of it is bypassing the need to convince GameStop the sales will be large enough to take shelf space away from Modern Call of Halo 14. But in the case of Kickstarter at least i also think part of it is putting us as the purchasing audience on the spot. "You want this game? Fine. Put up the money right now. Not a month from now when you've finished off whatever game you're playing at the moment. Not six months from now when it hits the bargain bin. And especially not off the used rack for $5 off. Give the money directly to us up front, right now."

Re:Putting the cart before the horse (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101191)

I think the problem with interplay was just they were too ahead of their time in a sense, many of the things the game industry has learned (dumbing down, storytelling) it was largely the non-game things driving mass market sales which kinda sucks. Since many older games were videogames first, story/action movie second. In modern games its the reverse.

The thing I'm a bit skeptical about is many of these people have been in the woods for a while (away from making those kinds of games) and I wonder if they still have it in them.

Re:Putting the cart before the horse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43101117)

In a way I think the Kickstarter explosion is an outgrowth of the same sentiment you expressed. For older properties of known quality, a lot of people regret not purchasing them in their prime, or losing out on the development of a new version, and the pent up demand has a release mechanism.

For a truly new property, there's a lot more difficulty generating excitement unless you get good exposure somewhere.

Re:Putting the cart before the horse (1)

program666 (2780745) | about a year and a half ago | (#43103665)

Or maybe it's just the price. I for one buy anything for 20 dollars or less even if this is the release price, even if I'm not sure I'll have time to play the game. I bought Torchlight 2 at release price since here in brazil it was the equivalent of 17 USD, also Borderlands 2 at 50% discount (~23 USD).

http://eternity.obsidian.net/ (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099665)

http://eternity.obsidian.net/

Great. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43099863)

But can't we all also go and pump money into Dreamfall: Chapters so they make a sequel to The Longest Journey?

Wish the Dreamfall Kickstarter was as popular (1)

guises (2423402) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100043)

This is great of course, but there's another Kickstarter going on for Dreamfall that hasn't gotten as much money in a month as this has gotten in a day:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redthread/dreamfall-chapters-the-longest-journey [kickstarter.com]

It's not too late, and the game is funded so this is hardly a tragedy, but it would certainly be nice if Dreamfall could get a similar level of support.

Re:Wish the Dreamfall Kickstarter was as popular (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43100423)

This is great of course, but there's another Kickstarter going on for Dreamfall that hasn't gotten as much money in a month as this has gotten in a day:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redthread/dreamfall-chapters-the-longest-journey [kickstarter.com]

It's not too late, and the game is funded so this is hardly a tragedy, but it would certainly be nice if Dreamfall could get a similar level of support.

You and 19,000 others WORLD WIDE.

Face it, no one likes these games. Why is it a surprise its barely funded? Watching that 9 min video on the page, i feel like I I just got spit out of a vagina. That has to be the STUPIDEST looking game I've seen in a long time.

Re:Wish the Dreamfall Kickstarter was as popular (1)

geekfarmer (2076616) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101015)

I'd already contributed to both, but I upped my Dreamfall pledge when they posted that status update advertising Torment *despite* the fact that Torment has already blown by their funding so far. Pretty awesome thing to do.

Re:Wish the Dreamfall Kickstarter was as popular (1)

muridae (966931) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101869)

You know why I havn't pledged anything to help Dreamfall? Because they talked about making the third chapter years ago. It took years to go from Dreamfall to TLJ, and yet they still talked about publishing the third in the story for so long.

It's one of those cases where I feel like there is a less than even chance that pledging to it wouldn't increase the chance of the game getting finished. Planescape never went through that phase of publishers/writers/coders all saying "we're working on the next chapter" so the fans are more willing.

Re:Wish the Dreamfall Kickstarter was as popular (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102841)

They never said they were working on it, at all. They said they wanted to finish it, and that they would in some form, at some point. These guys have never failed to finish a game they started working on, so I don't see why they would now.

Re:Wish the Dreamfall Kickstarter was as popular (1)

grumbel (592662) | about a year and a half ago | (#43103271)

It took years to go from Dreamfall to TLJ, and yet they still talked about publishing the third in the story for so long.

You can blame The Secret World for that. Originally Dreamfall should have been followed up swiftly by sequel, but Funcom apparently changed plans and moved all the staff to The Secret World MMORPG. For some reason they then still announced Dreamfall: Chapters, even so everybody was busy working on The Secret World. Then of course TSW got delayed quite a bit and took years to develop and once it was done Funcom decided to stop making single-player games all together, which is why the next Dreamfall is now done by a separate company, but filled with all the old developers.

Other games too (1)

deeprobert (1649429) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100351)

The are so many RPG's on kickstarter that it's difficult to decide on which ones to back. Everyone seems to go for the big names of yesteryear re-writes/sequels, but not so much for the new, smaller systems or the actual Role-Playing Games (i.e. - non-computer ones). Personally I would like to see more spread of the funding across the board (no pun intended) so that more games in general get built instead of just having focus on rewrites (not that I mind the rewrites for the most part). Heres a small random-ish selection of other smaller stuff that can be backed on KS: http://kck.st/13CtsPV [kck.st] (Vaccum Shadows) http://kck.st/YU2uOi [kck.st] (4KINGDOMS) http://kck.st/12dCceE [kck.st] (Hull Breach!) http://kck.st/XeW1eZ [kck.st] (Ultimate RPG Toolkit) But it's best if everyone takes a good browse through lots of KS projects - theres some really good stuff in there.

Quality Games (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43100589)

It's nice to see what will surely be a quality game get funded.

I've seen too many garbage products getting pledges (heck, there's even one where the "developers" pretty much tell people outright that they are going to fleece them with a non-product and it's on pace to get funded...) while quality games (like this one put together by a friend: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dyskami/upon-a-fable-a-fairy-tale-board-game or this other one put together by a different friend: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1780208966/freeport-the-city-of-adventure-for-the-pathfinder ) struggle to get funded. Good products need our support so they can make more good products!

SYSTEM SHOCK 3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43100603)

Can we please get a kickstarter going for System Shock 3 before EA decides to console-ruin it?

Re:SYSTEM SHOCK 3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103291)

It would probably have to break the highest KS funding record twice over just to buy the rights from EA.

For the next generation (1)

Micru (853431) | about a year and a half ago | (#43100727)

I wonder if this project will be able to connect with the next generation, the ones that were just too young to enjoy the former Planescape: Torment. If so, contributing to this Kickstarter can be a good way of passing down the token. Maybe I will not play it, but for me it is important enough just to make it happen.

Not the same setting (1)

Asmor (775910) | about a year and a half ago | (#43101883)

It's worth pointing out that this is not set in the same setting as Planescape: Torment (i.e. Planescape).

Numenera is completely unrelated to D&D, at least flavor wise (it's made by Monte Cook, who was heavily involved in D&D 3rd Edition. I don't think he had any involvement with AD&D, including Planescape...).

Not saying this is a good or bad thing, just saying, so that people are aware.

Re:Not the same setting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102239)

> I don't think he had any involvement with AD&D, including Planescape

On the contrary, he was one of the primary designers of Planescape. The mood in Planescape is not particularly D&D-like, so it's no surprise (and not a big disadvantage) that he adapted this mood to his Numenera world.

Numenera was also Kickstarter-funded [kickstarter.com] , by the way. Strange that no one mentions it here or on the T:ToN Kickstarter page.

What about Planescape: Torment + Voice acting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43102681)

I went back and tried to play to this game (btw there are lots of mods to up the res etc), because I lamented the fact that I missed it first time around. It would be much more approachable if most/all the character dialog was voice acted. I'd pay for that.

Re:What about Planescape: Torment + Voice acting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103877)

I don't think that's such a great idea. That level of depth and reactivity in a game would be incredibly costly and difficult if not impossible to reproduce in a game where the dialog was voice acted. As it stands, the game is plenty approachable for anyone who's ever read a book.

Re:What about Planescape: Torment + Voice acting (1)

phlinn (819946) | about a year and a half ago | (#43106335)

One of the comments I saw on this one of Torment's updates on kickstarter claimed that the lead developer of Dragon Age claimed (sorry, can't actually visit game sites to confirm this claim from work) that the cost of voice acting is the largest constraint on breadth of character dialog at Bioware. I think Planescape's use of a little voice acting for major lines, but printed dialog otherwise was better.

Project Eternity might have helped? (1)

soccerisgod (585710) | about a year and a half ago | (#43102913)

This campaign was mentioned with great enthusiasm in a recent Project Eternity backer update email. Since both game projects target the same kind of audience, I wonder if this hasn't had some impact on the result...

Message to EA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43103587)

Message to EA - FUCK YOU.

These are the games we want, and our money is talking loud and clear now.

Take your always-on internet DRM and your micro-transactions and stick them up your ass.

Its the ony game my wife ever asked me to play... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43104985)

That's how good the game is... 13 years of marriage and almost all RPGs that came out in that time under my belt. But Torment was the only game where instead of giving me evil looks when I was playing for a long time she was egging me on to play so that she could learn the story unfold.

Some of the dialoge has become staple household phrases. Who can ever forget: "Like a shadow I am..." or "Can I hold it - with my teeth?" ;)

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