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Nvidia Walked Away From PS4 Hardware Negotiations

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the sony-forced-to-console-themselves-with-amd dept.

PlayStation (Games) 255

An anonymous reader writes "Tony Tamsai, Nvidia's senior vice president of content and technology, has said that providing hardware for use in the PlayStation 4 was on the table, but they walked away. Having provided chips for use in both the PS3 and the original Xbox, that decision doesn't come without experience. Nvidia didn't want to commit to producing hardware at the cost Sony was willing to pay. They also considered that by accepting a PS4 contract, they wouldn't have the resources to do something else in another sector. In other words, the PS4 is not a lucrative enough platform to consider when high-end graphics cards and the Tegra line of chips hold so much more revenue potential."

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Wonder what they told MS (3, Funny)

Looker_Device (2857489) | about a year ago | (#43181813)

You can bet MS has approached them on providing chips for Durango too. I wonder if they told *them* to piss off.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (3, Interesting)

robthebloke (1308483) | about a year ago | (#43181919)

I wonder if MS and sony simply decided that going to a single supplier for both the CPU and GPU was cheaper than using two suppliers for each component.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182009)

Rumors have it that Durango will make extensive use of C++ AMP [microsoft.com] which has far better support from the AMD Radeon crew than NVidia.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182711)

The single chip solution would also offer better margins for the provider and better long term cost reduction possibilities for the console manufacturer. Two supplier model would have forced the console manufacturers to use at least one additional large chip.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | about a year ago | (#43182343)

Messages are mixed, the rumour mill is convinced it's going to be AMD ... but there are few credible sources.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | about a year ago | (#43182459)

Can you? One of the reasons the original XBox was pulled off the market as soon as the 360 came out (and no slim was ever made) was because nVidia reportedly refused to do a die shrink or combine dies, etc. So MS was left with a big, hot, expensive chip while Sony was able to shrink theirs and lower their costs dramatically.

MS might still hold a grudge on that one.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (3, Insightful)

rwise2112 (648849) | about a year ago | (#43182515)

Can you? One of the reasons the original XBox was pulled off the market as soon as the 360 came out (and no slim was ever made) was because nVidia reportedly refused to do a die shrink or combine dies, etc. So MS was left with a big, hot, expensive chip while Sony was able to shrink theirs and lower their costs dramatically.

MS might still hold a grudge on that one.

No sane business holds grudges like that. If MS wants it, it'll be written into the next contract and either nVidia will agree or not get the contract.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182549)

No sane business holds grudges like that.

The electronics industry isn't sane, then.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (2)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | about a year ago | (#43182647)

No sane business holds grudges like that. If MS wants it, it'll be written into the next contract and either nVidia will agree or not get the contract.

Apple anyone? Rumor was Apple was going with Nvidia. Nvidia announced that had a deal with Apple and then Apple (well Jobs) killed the deal. Why? Apple has to announces things on Apple's schedule i.e. at some hyped Apple event.

Many businesses are run by what many would consider to be not sane people. Sometimes that helps the business and others it hurts the business.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182757)

Rumor was Apple was going with Nvidia.

You need to learn the difference be a rumor and fact.

Re:Wonder what they told MS (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182753)

I think you got that the wrong way round.
Continuing to choose a supplier that doesn't treat you well is something no sane business should do.
Whether you're a business or a person, if you don't do your best to keep away from someone who would use any mistake (e.g. in writing the contact) against you, you're an idiot. There is no such thing as a watertight contract that envisions every possible future.

Console margins can't be good (5, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#43181817)

You have to provide lots of parts at low cost and they will surely write in a lower price for each continued year of the console. That means you are tying up fab time on something is on an outdated process a few years down the road.

On the other hand AMD had to do this, they need the money so any margin is likely acceptable.

Re:Console margins can't be good (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43181967)

Money, yes but possibly also market share. People currently often write and test games only on nvidia hardware and then if it does not beak totally on AMD cards consider it done. With the differences between the cards this will give nvida a performance advantage in all games written this way, although I have no idea how much. AMD just turned the tables for all games written originally for the PS4, quite a win for PC ports of console games too I expect.

Re:Console margins can't be good (4, Interesting)

Luthair (847766) | about a year ago | (#43182013)

This isn't really true, both the Xbox 360 and the Wii run AMD (well ATI) GPUs

Re:Console margins can't be good (5, Funny)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year ago | (#43182501)

... the Wii run[s] AMD (well ATI) GPUs

Being rather generous, aren't we?

If anything, I'd say the Wii 'casually strolls' the GPU. 'Run' is taking it a bit far.

Re:Console margins can't be good (2, Informative)

The Raven (30575) | about a year ago | (#43182099)

Developers develop on NVIDIA because their drivers are better. Flat out better. More compliant, reliable, etc. This has been true for a long time... id Software's Carmack wrote about this years ago, and the situation has not improved since then.

Re:Console margins can't be good (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182409)

Developers develop on NVIDIA because their drivers are more tolerant of stupid programming mistakes.

Fixed.

Re:Console margins can't be good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182123)

I bet AMD decent deal considering there were no other competitors in play.

Re:Console margins can't be good (0)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#43182211)

AMD not only turned the tables on Nvidia optimized games. They also turned the tables for single thread optimized games favoring Intel. Just imagine - in 6-8 months EVERY single new game will be written with heavy multi threading in mind from the grounds up. Times of overpaying $300 for K series i5-i7 just to be able to OC >4.5GHz so retarded single threaded games run fast will be over.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#43182367)

And still I will not buy an AMD card.

Their video drivers suck. Their linux drivers are a total joke. So here I will play using my AMD CPU and NVIDIA card.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about a year ago | (#43182523)

I've never had problems with the ATI drivers I download direct from the source... perhaps you're thinking of the Windows Update variant, that does inevitably break, well, everything?

My 6500HD seems to work fine on Linux, although I admit I just installed Steam on that box the other day and haven't had a chance to test it.

Re:Console margins can't be good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182769)

And I've had nothing but problems. Downloaded their Catalyst crap about a year ago, and updated it as the software requested.

Went to mine bitcoins for fun, didn't work, no OpenCL installed. Downgraded to 12.10 because that's what's supposed to work best for this purpose. kbdsync.exe started to blow up. Upgraded back to 13.1. Didn't fix that problem. Used AMD's removal tool. Now my Logitech G35 drivers started to blow up. Installed 13.1, now it won't open the catalyst control panel because .net isn't installed (Huh? Why did you remove that?) Installed .net 4.0. Still -- catalyst control panel blowing up and the logitech drivers are blowing up, but kbdsync.exe stopped complaining. Installed .net 3.5. Catalyst control now panel works. Removed logitech drivers with the intent to install them tomorrow when I'm a *little* less pissed off.

That is shitty software, my friend. I know windows is to blame for some of it, but so is AMD.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1)

TeXMaster (593524) | about a year ago | (#43182541)

I absolutely agree that the software support AMD has for their card is inferior to that of NVIDIA. And this definitely pisses me off, considering their hardware is _consistently_ better than the competitor, in terms of raw performance _and_ in terms of performance/price. OTOH, I get the impression that their software support is slowly getting better. At the very least, I haven't had any significant issues recently (at least using Debian unstable with their packaged drivers).

Re:Console margins can't be good (2)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | about a year ago | (#43182831)

Which is why I usually stay one generation behind on video cards when I am looking for a new one. For what I play I do not need the latest card. I have the specs on what I need. A range of cards meet that spec. Also drivers usually have worked out the bugs by then.

Then again I left the epenis waving contest a long time ago. I have found that stability goes a long way to good gaming. I also no longer play fps games. Maybe today's fps games need the latest card to run well. My newest card is a AMD 6950 2GB model not the latest card. Runs everything great and runs cool (38 C idle 50 C under game load. It drops back to 38 C in a minute or two). I play with people that say I need to have a Nvidia card n order to play. Yet I have no issues with all the eye candy turned to the highest settings. They still crash from time to time. They blame the game. I blame their setup. You don't overclock unless you have enough cooling for it. More then just the CPU and GPU coolers are involved in the cooling setup. having one case fan doesn't cut it. Using that small cramped desktop case will make things run hotter as well. At the very least you should replace the stock GPU cooler thermal compound with a better one. They don't and over clock the GPU. Their GPU runs around 70 C. Which is too high in my book. Then again their CPU is around 65 C. That is also too high in my book. Mine hits 40 C under game load and idles around 28 C. My mid tower case has room in it. It uses three 120 MM intake fans (one blows right at the video card), 120 MM and 140 MM exhaust fans. Add in the 120 MM fan on the CPU and 120 in the power supply. The loudest fan is the GPU fan which is set at 100%. If I set the GPU fan at 70% I head the hard drive over the fans.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | about a year ago | (#43182611)

AMD discontinued my motherboard's integrated Radeon chip a year after I bought it.

Meanwhile my GT220 from 5(?) years ago still runs the latest nVidia software and is powering my HTPC.

Re:Console margins can't be good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182715)

AMD not only turned the tables on Nvidia optimized games. They also turned the tables for single thread optimized games favoring Intel.

AMD still doesn't have a multi-thread supported DX11 drivers, but nVidia has had this feature working for years now.

Re:Console margins can't be good (2)

DarthVain (724186) | about a year ago | (#43182057)

If nVidia was this small minded, they deserve whatever they get.

Having all games (and thus their ports) on million and millions of xbox and PS consoles designed and optimized for your specific hardware for the next 10 years is worth money. Any profit they actually get is just icing.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1, Insightful)

Osgeld (1900440) | about a year ago | (#43182107)

yea but that optimization only lasts a few months before its totally outdated, usually before the console hits the stores. The embedded solutions on the other hand have a much higher rate of product rotation meaning you can get the latest n greatest out to customers without holding up fab on a 10 year old design for systems that usually only have high sales within the first couple of years.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#43182231)

Please tell me more about optimizing games to be properly multithreaded will only last few months and then be outdated.

Re:Console margins can't be good (5, Funny)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#43182175)

Having all games (and thus their ports) on million and millions of xbox and PS consoles designed and optimized for your specific hardware for the next 10 years is worth money. Any profit they actually get is just icing.

Quick, better call Nvidia and tell them this before they make a terrible, terrible mistake! Just say you're calling from Slashdot - they'll put you straight through to the CEO.

Re:Console margins can't be good (4, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year ago | (#43182323)

You're making the assumption that they thought about this. The people involved in the decision probably numbered in the dozens tops, with most of them marketing and finance people. With the way companies seem to be run to realize maximum profits in the short term these days, it's even possible they realized this but turned down the long term gain anyway.

Re:Console margins can't be good (5, Insightful)

dnahelicase (1594971) | about a year ago | (#43182551)

You're making the assumption that they thought about this. The people involved in the decision probably numbered in the dozens tops, with most of them marketing and finance people. With the way companies seem to be run to realize maximum profits in the short term these days, it's even possible they realized this but turned down the long term gain anyway.

Given the fact that we're talking about AMD and Nvidia, my guess is that it was a thoughtful decision.

The fact that they have walked away before, that AMD is in previous consoles, and that everyone is continuously crying (from the tech world and wall street alike) that AMD is near it's end (even though it's not), it sounds like they might have made a good decision.

AMD is going to spend a lot of time making a low margin product that is going to be outdated next year but one that they have to keep spending resources and time on for years. Nvidia is going to be spending their time on supercomputer applications, drivers, and pushing their image as a higher end card.

Sometimes you walk away from a business deal because you want your competitor to win it.

Re:Console margins can't be good (2)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#43182665)

You're making the assumption that they thought about this.

More specifically, I'm making the assumption that Nvidia, the multi-billion dollar company, have thought about this deal harder and for longer than the kind of Slashdotter who likes to chip in on these stories a few more minutes after reading about it.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1)

DarthVain (724186) | about a year ago | (#43182411)

Yet, do you disagree?

Very likely the "mistake" is out of their hands and nothing a CEO can do about it other than build a time machine, go back in time, either A) prevent AMD from buying ATI, or B) Buy ATI, or C) Somehow convince Intel to buy nVidia, then go forward in time, and place a competitive bid on something they couldn't have without the advent of time travel.

Re:Console margins can't be good (2)

del_diablo (1747634) | about a year ago | (#43182387)

| Having all games (and thus their ports) on million and millions of xbox and PS consoles designed and optimized for your specific hardware for the next 10 years is worth money.
The problem is that AMD changed graphic card architecture on the HD 3xxx series, meaning that free console optmization only exists on the 1xxx and 2xxx series.

Re:Console margins can't be good (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about a year ago | (#43182147)

AMD has another advantage in this sort of business. Since they no longer own their own fabrication plants, they can simply contract this out to another fabrication plant if it becomes a constraint on their first choice fabrication vendor.

Re:Console margins can't be good (2)

0123456 (636235) | about a year ago | (#43182385)

AMD has another advantage in this sort of business. Since they no longer own their own fabrication plants, they can simply contract this out to another fabrication plant if it becomes a constraint on their first choice fabrication vendor.

Uh, they could always have done that. No-one forced them to use thei rown fabs for all their chips.

While flexibility is an advantage, being totally reliant on third-party suppliers is not.

Re:Console margins can't be good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182579)

>they can simply contract this out to another fabrication plant
That is assuming that the new fab has IDENTICAL physical library with the same size/shape/electrical performance as the one AMD designed for. In the chip design world as they have their secret source/tweaked process making features on chips for bleeding edge process size, that is not necessarily the case and sometimes require recompile, debug and tweak cycles.

Sony *could* have contracted the design work/support to AMD, exclusively license the SoC design and negotiate directly with the contract manufacturer.themselves. They won't need the middle man as much once the CM is churning chip correctly in a production run.

Re:Console margins can't be good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182745)

You have to provide lots of parts at low cost and they will surely write in a lower price for each continued year of the console. That means you are tying up fab time on something is on an outdated process a few years down the road.

On the other hand AMD had to do this, they need the money so any margin is likely acceptable.

And you base this off of what? Do you work for a console manufacturer? Are you the CFO for a gpu manufacturer? A console engineer? Or anything that gives you personal insight into the industry from an actual standpoint? Or are you merely speculating and making guesses based off of having no real knowledge or insight at all?

No one said it has be low margins, they might be very nice margins. But as NVidia said, they have other projects going on right now that they stand to make more money off. Why would Nvidia sacrifice current projects for ones that make them less money?

And how do you know that AMD has to do this? Are you their financial consultant? Why wouldn't they is the question, especially considering they have a long history of making gpus for consoles, they are the go to guys for that.

Good Move. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43181823)

Sounds to me like they made a pretty good move there. My friend asked me a while ago why NVIDIA wasn't inside the PS4. I told him its probably because they didn't want to get locked into a contract with anyone, they wanted to stay independent.

Re:Good Move. (5, Funny)

Thanshin (1188877) | about a year ago | (#43182019)

I recently read a comment in slashdot that had a bizarre structure. The author gave his opinion by telling a story about how he gave that same opinion to a friend of his.

Re:Good Move. (5, Funny)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#43182085)

This one time, at band camp, I stuffed a Slashdot comment up my flute.

Re:Good Move. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182875)

In Soviet Russia, flute stuffs Slashdot!

Re:Good Move. (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about a year ago | (#43182117)

Samsung has a similar contract to make all the processors for every iPhone, iPad, etc.

Man, that contract must suck. It provides 9% of all Samsung revenue.

Re:Good Move. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#43182295)

It might, if the alternative was to shift that market to GS4 and make more margin on less parts.

Re:Good Move. (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about a year ago | (#43182353)

Even though these companies compete with finished products, I believe it is a good deal for both companies for Samsung to produce chips for Apple, which is precisely why the deal persists despite their legal wrangling.

It would hurt Samsung to suddenly drop 9% of their revenue. And because they're competing fiercely, they can't suddenly make a higher margin on less parts in a tight market.

Apple has shopped and can't find a better supplier, which is why they still use a company they hate. They get a part they need at the right price.

Re:Good Move. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#43182393)

The more margin comes from selling their own devices. Those they get markup on at the retail level, not wholesale.

Re:Good Move. (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about a year ago | (#43182575)

I understand, but again they're in a tight market with Apple on the finished phones.

I don't believe they'd sell more phones to see a 9% increase in overall company revenue simply by not making processors for Apple.

Apple has a decent profit margin per product and tons of cash. If Apple had to pay slightly more per proc through another supplier, they'd likely have to eat the difference.

You're suggesting Samsung drop 9% of their total revenue to slightly screw over Apple. But it wouldn't really benefit Samsung. Samsung acting like a dick won't make Samsung suddenly sell tons more phones.

Re:Good Move. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182601)

The contract likely has little to do with it. This reminds me of PowerVR dedicating all the new chips to the Sega Dreamcast, then being unable to ship any chips for the desktop market for a good long time. Ultimately, by the time they came back tot he PC market it was too late to really compete.

His name is Tony Tamasi, not Tamsai... (4, Informative)

GrosTuba (227941) | about a year ago | (#43181835)

Just sayin'...

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43181845)

I'm guessing there was a non-competitive clause in there which would have stopped nvidia from selling to Valve for the ValveBox.

Re:In other news... (2)

limaCAT76 (2769551) | about a year ago | (#43182005)

I'm guessing there was a non-competitive clause in there which would have stopped nvidia from selling to Valve for the ValveBox.

Then why didn't Sony put a non-competitive clause to AMD for stopping AMD from selling to Microsoft for Durango?

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182303)

Uh, because it would be a clear violation of the Sherman Act?

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182047)

Or how about a non-competitive clause that would have prevented them from being a direct competitor [nvidia.com] against Sony?

wkwkwk (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43181863)

Why dont you go to school ?

http://bloguntuksemua.mywapblog.com/i-chatting-jejaring-sosial-indonesia.xhtml

dem Economics (2)

puddingebola (2036796) | about a year ago | (#43181903)

The only thing I can take from this is that the potential growth in mobile platforms far outstrips the costs associated with developing hardware for another game console platform. Like a previous comment asked, I wonder if they told Microsoft to go away as well. If they did, what does this mean in the bigger picture? Is the future of gaming on tablets?

Re:dem Economics (3, Interesting)

David_Hart (1184661) | about a year ago | (#43182073)

The only thing I can take from this is that the potential growth in mobile platforms far outstrips the costs associated with developing hardware for another game console platform. Like a previous comment asked, I wonder if they told Microsoft to go away as well. If they did, what does this mean in the bigger picture? Is the future of gaming on tablets?

My thought is that tablets will allow us to extend games and make them portable. For example, I would have loved to have been able to play Skyrim on the PS3 and the Tablet: The PS3 at home and the Tablet when on the road. Saved games would be synched to the cloud, similar to what Steam does today, and downloaded to the tablet so that you could pick up where you left the game. The capabilities of tablets would have to improve quite a bit before this happens, but it is coming...

Re:dem Economics (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year ago | (#43182249)

Without some very clever thinking(or a greater acceptance among tablet users of peripherals), that is going to be a brutal UI problem...

Even between PC and console, which are practically cousins in the 'lots of buttons and a pointing device' family of interface devices, you can smell a console port a mile away because of how wrong its interface feels. Some are salveagable(Thank you, thank you SkyUI!), some are basically game-breakers(Sorry GTA IV, I wanted to enjoy you...)

Tablets are a whole different kettle of fish. There are plenty of tablet games; but those tend to involve substantially different mechanics, or a frankly lousy feedbackless attempt an overlaying a touch-sensitive picture of a nintento control pad or something.

I could imagine some very interesting complementary UI arrangements that use a tablet as a second screen for various purposes; but building a control scheme that ports between a console or a PC and a tablet would be quite a feat.

Re:dem Economics (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | about a year ago | (#43182595)

Why would you not just hook up a PS3 controller via bluetooth to your tablet?

Re:dem Economics (5, Funny)

dnahelicase (1594971) | about a year ago | (#43182585)

My thought is that tablets will allow us to extend games and make them portable. For example, I would have loved to have been able to play Skyrim on the PS3 and the Tablet: The PS3 at home and the Tablet when on the road. Saved games would be synched to the cloud, similar to what Steam does today, and downloaded to the tablet so that you could pick up where you left the game. The capabilities of tablets would have to improve quite a bit before this happens, but it is coming...

I was thinking the same things as I was playing sim city the other day....man it would be nice if this game was synched to the cloud...

Hmm... (4, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year ago | (#43181911)

I wonder how much of the 'opportunity cost/things we could have been working on instead' factor has to do with the fact that AMD is simply in a tighter spot than Nvidia, and how much it has to do with the fact that AMD already makes CPU/GPU combination packages(and seems interested in making more), while Nvidia has nothing of that sort except their 'Tegra', which might be a snappy mobile part; but is fundamentally punching in a different weight class(if nothing else, Sony's plans for 8GBs of RAM get a lot uglier on a 32-bit architecture. Yes, ARM also has something PAE-like; but PAE is mostly a hack that makes running multiple independent programs on a 32 bit system with more than 4GB of RAM palatable, not something you'd want to design a game engine around.)

This isn't to say that Nvidia couldn't have done it(heck, what would buying VIA cost these days?); but Nvidia would need, essentially, an entire new flavor of product line for this job, while AMD, whether they call it this or not, is punching out a modestly customized APU, which almost certainly shares substantially with the ones that they sell for PCs.

Re:Hmm... (1)

teg (97890) | about a year ago | (#43182233)

...how much it has to do with the fact that AMD already makes CPU/GPU combination packages(and seems interested in making more), while Nvidia has nothing of that sort except their 'Tegra', which might be a snappy mobile part...

This is my guess. AMD can offer an integrated part with good performance. If the choice of a PC-like architecture had already been made (no "cell 2"), then there were two other options: An integrated Intel solution (not very good graphics), or a combination of CPU from Intel and GPU from Nvidia. This would mean more/larger assembly, and two solutions to pay for rather than one.

Volume too low (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43181915)

Maybe after the PS3's disappointing sales, Nvidia decided that PS4 sales volumes would be too low to justify the commitment.

Re:Volume too low (1)

neokushan (932374) | about a year ago | (#43182043)

Or maybe it's because of the exact reason stated in the summary - Sony didn't want to pay them enough money.

Re:Volume too low (0)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | about a year ago | (#43182817)

It wasn't just sales that were dissappointing. The console was dissappointing. It sits in a box almost never used. I loved the PS2, the PS3 was the last straw.

Or (AMD) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43181929)

Or they saw they were going to go x86, and most likely AMD because lol Intel, and weren't up to giving their main competitor any money at all.

I guess it will work out for both Sony and Microsoft in the end. They will be the test-bed for their new processor ideas, which sound very interesting.

Public Relations.... (5, Insightful)

Luthair (847766) | about a year ago | (#43181959)

Why are people running a blatent self-serving PR story?

We lost but... we didn't really want to win it anyway!

Re:Public Relations.... (3, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | about a year ago | (#43182017)

Why are people running a blatent self-serving PR story?

We lost but... we didn't really want to win it anyway!

Yeah, that was what I was thinking too, of course they say that. And if they'd won instead they'd say the exact opposite and we'd hear this drivel from AMD. It's not like Sony and Microsoft had a lot of other options, who should they have gone to? Intel? VIA? PowerVR? No, if both AMD and nVidia had told them to buzz off they'd come back with a better offer. I doubt AMD sold themselves that cheap, since they knew nVidia wouldn't do that either. Just cheap enough to win, keep their volume up and live to fight another day.

Re:Public Relations.... (1)

evilRhino (638506) | about a year ago | (#43182075)

Running a PR story as news is low hanging fruit for the lazy reporter. The sponsor company probably wrote the whole piece themselves.

Re:Public Relations.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182671)

I used to date a super model, but I had to dump her because she traveled to much.

Allegedly (5, Funny)

Thanshin (1188877) | about a year ago | (#43181965)

They, Allegedly, walked away.

Without video proof, we can't be sure they didn't strolled, strutted or even rambled away.

Re:Allegedly (3, Informative)

Narishma (822073) | about a year ago | (#43182079)

Not to mention, with phrases like "I'm sure there was a negotiation that went on," the guy just seems to be speculating about what happened, instead of, you know, being there during the negotiations.

Re:Allegedly (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182151)

Perhaps they moseyed [penny-arcade.com] .

Re:Allegedly (5, Funny)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year ago | (#43182339)

Observers from the Ministry of Silly Walks have confirmed (to their disappointment) that their walk was one of the most serious ever recorded, and that they did not amble, dawdle, gambol, hustle, limp, meander, mosey, march, ramble, sashay, saunter, scamper, scurry, sidle, skulk, slink, slog, skip, stroll, stomp, strut, swagger, tiptoe, traipse. They did not even do a forward aerial half turn every alternate step with the left leg, which itself is hardly a silly walk at all.

Re:Allegedly (1)

mordjah (1088481) | about a year ago | (#43182629)

+1 funny!

Re:Allegedly (1)

c (8461) | about a year ago | (#43182351)

They, Allegedly, walked away.

Without video proof, we can't be sure they didn't strolled, strutted or even rambled away.

And those are just the "legs" options. We have to consider wheelchairs and crutches (or even "limping away"), or rolling down the hall in a conference room chair shouting "weeeeee!" the whole way. If there was alcohol involved, crawling is certainly an option. If it was a crack team of negotiators, there may have been rappelling...

Yes, we need video.

Bullshit (5, Interesting)

DarthVain (724186) | about a year ago | (#43182039)

Considering AMD are producing the CPU chips for both platforms, and the the GPU as well, it isn't surprising that nVidia "walked" away. This is the eventual benefit of AMD buying ATI, in that they can produce both now. I have no doubt that AMD either have special consideration or simply could offer a better bid than nVidia could.

Regardless of the profit, this would be a big feather in AMD's cap. AKA "We produce both the CPU and GPU of all modern game consoles, don't you want to buy our chips?". Also in the bigger scheme of things, if you get game developers in such numbers making games for YOUR video card on millions and millions of consoles for all games, which are ported to say PC, what do you think those games will be optimized for? AMD. Which will look better? AMD. This is something that is going to change things in a pretty large way over the next 10 years.

nVidia should have paid money to be a part of this if only to prevent their rival in AMD from doing so. Perhaps they didn't have the money. More likely they think they have something that will make a difference. I doubt it.

I'm not fired, I quit is the sentiment I feel about nVidia's statement...

Re:Bullshit (4, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | about a year ago | (#43182149)

This. I'm shocked no one else saw what was obvious here.

AMD is providing a unified CPU/GPU on a single die that shares the same memory and bandwidth. For Nvidia to provide a separate GPU to compete at the same performance and price would be really difficult, if not impossible.

Re:Bullshit (2)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#43182253)

if you get game developers in such numbers making games for YOUR video card on millions and millions of consoles for all games, which are ported to say PC, what do you think those games will be optimized for?

Forget GPU and think the end of Intel IPC ruling the CPU market. AMD just won CPU race in Gaming market sector. Games will be written for AMD 8 core arch from the grounds up, using every possible x86 extension AMD has to offer, and compiled with something other than Intel 'let me check if you run this on Genuine Intel so I can decide if Ill slow down the code" compiler.

Also think end of PhysX.

Re:Bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182369)

Also think end of PhysX.

In order for PhysX to "end", it would have to have taken off in the first place, which never happened.

Re:Bullshit (1)

DarthVain (724186) | about a year ago | (#43182477)

Agree.

Though game, most games anyway, tend to be more limited by GPU not CPU, so I can see more optimization (specialization) there. That said, in the long run you are right, I think this will give AMD a bump in the market share outside of consoles eventually.

I know the CPU (and likely the GPU as well) will be a special product, so it will be interesting to see what the details actually become and what they throw in there. If they are strategic and implement some interesting things that is not supported by Intel...

I am by no means an AMD fanboy, in fact I am more of an Intel man myself, but I do long for the days of the Athlon 64 days when AMD was actually competitive. Made the market better for everyone. Hopefully this spurs some positive change for AMD.

Re:Bullshit (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about a year ago | (#43182465)

Any idea on what GPU the "Steam Box" uses? AMD could end up powering gaming in the living room totally. </ConspiracyTheory>

Re:Bullshit (1)

DarthVain (724186) | about a year ago | (#43182573)

If I was a betting man, I would go with AMD also, simply for their integration which translates into low cost. Of course it remains to be seen how revolutionary the "Steam Box" is. Could be huge or a big flop, or even a non-starter.

Re:Bullshit (1)

Narishma (822073) | about a year ago | (#43182765)

Nobody knows what a Steam Box is, let alone what hardware it uses.

Re:Bullshit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182531)

Huh? It's as simple as AMD is betting on consoles and NVidia is betting on mobiles/ARM.
The sad thing is, no one cares about the PC anymore.

Re:Bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182827)

Not only that, but AMD have been making newer processors using SoC process (i.e. compiling design from HDLvs hand holding their layout). Remember people complain about AMD's latest CPU wasn't layout by hand here for that reason?

Their decision of doing design flow this way offers a lot more flexible as to where they make their chips or mixing/matching the various IP to make custom SoC. They might lose the battle on the desktop as their design won't be as tight and fast as Intel's, but they diversify themselves.

AMD probably gets a good deal in this. Not everyday, you get to experiment with new architectures and learn with other people's money.

the resources to do something else (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182125)

> "they wouldn't have the resources to do something else in another sector."

Implying that the resources for a PS4 would be radically different from their PC offerings.

Saving Face (2)

abigsmurf (919188) | about a year ago | (#43182161)

60million units doesn't have revenue potential?

Not only that, the tech they came up with could likely be used for new laptops and set top boxes.

I suspect it was more likely because they didn't have the level of tech needed. ATI had their APU systems lined up already and with tweaking, they're perfect for a console. I'm not sure that NVidia had anything approaching the power of these APUs drawn up (their focus has been on desktop graphics and tablet).

Rumours suggest that the 3DS was going to use NVidia tegra based tech but they couldn't keep the heat down so Nintendo went with the as-seen-in-every-bargain-bucket-chinese-tablet Mali+arm combination.

Re:Saving Face (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182345)

It's not just units, it's global exposure for 8+ years that they're the power behind the PS4.

NV have gambled on the mobile space, now that the PC market has reached a point where all but top end rig can handle true 1080p or better at 60fps.

Re:Saving Face (1)

DerekLyons (302214) | about a year ago | (#43182561)

60million units doesn't have revenue potential?

Certainly it has revenue potential - but that doesn't mean it has sufficient ROI compared to other uses of their capital to justify committing the resources. For example, I can spend today on a project that will make me $100 bucks or on one that will make me $120 bucks - and absent compelling reasons to choose the former, I'm going with the latter.

Re:Saving Face (1)

Microlith (54737) | about a year ago | (#43182615)

The 3DS GPU isn't Mali but something developed by a Japanese company, I don't believe it's been used in anything else at this point.

fuckj a bitch (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182183)

, a 4roud 0member those obligations. NetBSD user leaving the play Arrogance was

The real reason (0, Flamebait)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about a year ago | (#43182201)

Sony wanted to install rootkits on nVidia's computers.

Native multithreading, physics with DirectCompute. (1)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#43182281)

Forget about AMD GPU optimization. Specific shaders optimization accounts for maybe 10%.

Think about future games being natively written with 8 cores in mind. No more buy 2 Nvidia cards to see some PhysX sparks, all games will use Havoc, Bullet or some other physics library computing on AMD GPUs.

Nvidia doesn't like x86 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182293)

The plan to use x86 processors is almost definitely the reason, Nvidia would have to spend a lot of time and effort to create a new architecture to fit what Sony and MS are planning for these new consoles. AMD already has all the technology, rights, and knowledge to do it with minor tweaking.

The Man Who Said No To Sony (2)

Stavr0 (35032) | about a year ago | (#43182297)

There seems to be a lot of similarities to the Snapper Lawnmower story [slashdot.org] .

"Jim Wier believed that Snapper's health -- indeed, its very long-term survival -- required that it not do business with Wal-Mart. "

If Sony is being cheap about graphics cards (1)

felipou (2748041) | about a year ago | (#43182299)

then maybe the PS4 won't be so expensive?

Re:If Sony is being cheap about graphics cards (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182805)

then maybe the PS4 won't be so expensive?

I do so very much hate the "forced laughter and claiming the parent post was a joke" response. It's pointlessly smug, annoying, and most importantly, bland and overplayed. It's right there in the McDonald's of generic internet responses.

So, in light of Sony's historic greed and lack of concern for their customers, I'll answer your post simply: Not likely.

I guess that's... (1)

davebo357 (730081) | about a year ago | (#43182489)

I guess that's just not the way it's meant to be played.

It was a choice of business, thats all. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43182593)

As he said Nvidia has a lot going on and the decision to develop for the ps4 and next xbox were just to small of a margin in profits compared to what they are currently doing.

It makes sense really. If NVidia currently has their plate full with projects why would they take on a new project with less profits and sacrifice the ones they stand to make more money off of?

Besides ATI may suck at making desktop/laptop gpus, desktop/laptop cpus and such but they have a lot of experience with console gpus.

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