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What's Going On In KDE Plasma Workspaces 2?

Unknown Lamer posted about a year ago | from the smaller-and-better dept.

KDE 122

jrepin writes "While moving its codebase to Qt5, the KDE Development Platform is undergoing a number of changes that lead to a more modular codebase (called KDE Framework 5) on top of a hardware-accelerated graphics stack. In this post, you'll learn a bit about the status of Frameworks 5 and porting especially Plasma — that will be known as Plasma Workspaces 2, paying credit to its more convergent architecture."

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Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211787)

My first ever first post.

Re:Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211821)

I could swear I have seen lots of first posts from you Anonymous Coward. Wait a minute... am I replying myself?

Re:Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211835)

No, no, no, that was me. It could have been you, but most likely me

Re:Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211905)

me me me me... me too..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyNyHark4xk

Re:Wow! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212101)

I'm AC, and so's my wife!

Re:Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212195)

I'm AC, and so's my wife!

No no (me), it's: "I'm AC, and so's your mom"

Wayland & Mir (4, Interesting)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43211811)

Will KDE 5 be ported to Wayland? Also, on the Kubuntu side of things, will the Blue Systems folks port KDE to Mir? How much of Qt5 supports Wayland already? What would it take to support Mir?

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211841)

KDE is ONLY working on Wayland support, and it will land in KDE 5. It's up to Canonical to make Mir porting, but KDE, or GNOME, aren't putting any resources on Mir ports on their own.

Re:Wayland & Mir (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211885)

Why would they port KDE when they have Unity?

Re:Wayland & Mir (2)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#43211921)

To run apps that require kde libraries, maybe? The QT/QML ecosystem on what they would be based could use some key existing apps for KDE.

Also, one of the advantages of Ubuntu that still that you can choose to not run unity. How much of that option remains could be key for its future as a general linux distribution.

Re:Wayland & Mir (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211929)

I shall conduct a grand experiment. I shall conduct an experiment; the likes of which the world has never seen before. I shall poke your butthole with my magic finger.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | about a year ago | (#43212805)

Being able to not run Unity is an advantage for Ubuntu?

Its the only Operating system that allows you to choose it.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#43214005)

Windows and MacOSX don't let you choose your desktop environment. And that is one advantage of linux distributions in general, giving you the freedom to use the environment that fits better for you. If only unity runs in Ubuntu, then it won't have that advantage, no matter how good or bad you think it is.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43214377)

Precisely! And that could end up being the scenario if the other DEs - KDE, Razor-qt, LXDE, XCFE, et al do not add support for Mir, in addition to Wayland, or unless Canonical does that. Canonical has no reason to do that, since Unity is its flagship (although question remains as to whether they will retain Lubuntu and Xubuntu). Unless they decide to retain X11 support for any backward compatibility, their future Mir based OSs would not support anything but Unity.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

ebh (116526) | about a year ago | (#43214949)

It is when you run old clunky hardware like I do. LXDE runs very nicely on my ten-year-old Dell C640 laptop.

Re:Wayland & Mir (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43216045)

I have that exact laptop and also ran LXDE on it. I switched to RazorQt, though. Also, the touchpad/clitstick likes to make the mouse travel randomly and then putting pressure on the case around it affects it. It makes clicks whenever it's doing something (it's not the HDD, but it also makes noises out the speakers/headphone jack).

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about a year ago | (#43212881)

I'm willing to bet the Ubuntu will allow you to run X the same way it allows you to run KDE now, but I don't relly know.

All of the QML love from them lately would lead to believe that they will indeed port to Mir.

Mir support for the *Ubuntus (3, Insightful)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43214307)

Why would they port KDE when they have Unity?

I was thinking of Blue Systems here, not Canonical. Actually, once Canonical switches to Mir, then the other Ubuntus that are there - Lubuntu and Xubuntu - would also have to have Mir support, and one would think that since Canonical still owns them, they'd build in the support for those DEs. Kubuntu is the one variation that Canonical has let go off, so it would be upto Blue Systems to either build support for Mir so that they could build off future versions of Ubuntu, or just fork the OS from the last one that has X11 support. Hence my question.

Of course, just like Kubuntu, Canonical could hand off Lubuntu and Xubuntu as well, and therefore not have to add Mir support for them at all in the first place. In which case, the same question would apply to their inheritors.

Re:Mir support for the *Ubuntus (1)

emblemparade (774653) | about a year ago | (#43216305)

Canonical doesn't "own" the ?ubuntu flavors. Instead, it provides resources: build machines with integrated QA, bandwidth and recognition.

This means that it's up to the volunteer teams who make these flavors (or the upstream desktop environments) to do the integration.

It's actually not clear that Wayland/Mir support will happen for them. It will surely happen in GTK+3 and Qt, but both Xfce and LXDE currently use GTK+2. There are talks about migrating Xfce to GTK+3, and perhaps the addition of modern graphical backends will be the tipping point for the decision.

Of course, once/if it does happen, these flavors will enjoy the same bugfixes and updates to Wayland/Mir that the basic Ubuntu distribution will have.

Re:Mir support for the *Ubuntus (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43217221)

They don't? Then what was Canonical's handing over Kubuntu ownership to Blue Systems about? I thought that all the ubuntus - Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, et al were owned by Canonical. Which is how they get simultaneously released.

Re:Mir support for the *Ubuntus (1)

emblemparade (774653) | about a year ago | (#43217463)

Canonical used to pay a salary to a sole employee who did work on KDE/Kubuntu integration, but decided they could not afford it anymore and need to focus their energies on Unity. Blue Systems stepped in to offer the funding instead.

In any case, it didn't mean "ownership," it was merely offering some direct finanical support in addition to the resource support. Canonical will continue to offer resource support to all the ?ubuntus, but I don't blame them for not funneling money into areas that are not their core priorities.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

Hatta (162192) | about a year ago | (#43212497)

Will KDE 5 be ported to Wayland?

What's the point of that? Aren't window decorations going to be client side? So applications decide on their own what they look like, whether they want to obey window manager settings, etc.

Re:Wayland & Mir (3, Informative)

EmperorArthur (1113223) | about a year ago | (#43212841)

Umm, no.

While the reference implementation currently only supports client side decorations, that's probably more to do with the fact that it's at something closer to Alpha release state than anything else.

The Wayland specification allows either client side or server side decorations.
See this post for more details: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/02/more-rational-approach-to-window-decorations/ [martin-graesslin.com]

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

cozziewozzie (344246) | about a year ago | (#43214979)

Will KDE 5 be ported to Wayland?

What's the point of that? Aren't window decorations going to be client side? So applications decide on their own what they look like, whether they want to obey window manager settings, etc.

You are aware that there is more to KDE than window decorations, right?

Re:Wayland & Mir (2)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#43213943)

Will KDE 5 be ported to Wayland?

There will be no "KDE 5". Never ever.

Also, on the Kubuntu side of things, will the Blue Systems folks port KDE to Mir?

No.

How much of Qt5 supports Wayland already?

Plenty.

What would it take to support Mir?

A revolution because no one within the KDE community is even remotely interested in supporting Mir.

Re:Wayland & Mir (2)

captjc (453680) | about a year ago | (#43214075)

There will be no "KDE 5". Never ever.

So what are you saying, that KDE development is in such a horrible shape that it will fall apart in the near future leaving KDE in some stagnate turmoil just before a major overhaul that would have been designated "KDE 5" or are you saying that the next major overhaul will be rebranded without a numbering scheme, (e.g. "KDE XP").

Because odds are good that a few years from now, enough developers are going to want to overhaul the code (or reach some arbitrary benchmark) and create a new branch, and last time I checked, in most integer numbering schemes, 5 comes right after 4.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43214441)

Responding to this part of the GP's assertion, wouldn't any Qt5 based KDE be numbered KDE 5.x?

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

cozziewozzie (344246) | about a year ago | (#43215017)

So what are you saying, that KDE development is in such a horrible shape that it will fall apart in the near future leaving KDE in some stagnate turmoil just before a major overhaul that would have been designated "KDE 5" or are you saying that the next major overhaul will be rebranded without a numbering scheme, (e.g. "KDE XP").

No, he is being pedantic.

KDE is the community, not the software. KDE will release Plasma Workspaces 2 and KDE Software Compilation 5.

Most people will refer to it as "KDE5", though.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#43224283)

Nobody within the core KDE development community ever confirmed that there will ever be a Software Compilation 5. http://aseigo.blogspot.de/2013/03/the-case-brand.html [blogspot.de] suggests that maybe it won't.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43219803)

Also, KDE wants their software to be portable to other operating systems. X11 is the targeted platform - Wayland is extra. KDE is used on a lot more then just Linux. (Also, did GNOME 3 ever get running on BSD?)

GNOME on BSDs (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43221025)

I believe that PC-BSD 9.1 does support it. OTOH, GhostBSD, which was the main BSD that had GNOME as its default DE, has stated w/ the release of GhostBSD 3 that this will be the last release that has GNOME 2.32, and that GNOME will be replaced by MATE in future releases. So no GNOME 3 there. Nor Cinnamon either. Although they will be supporting LXDE & Openbox as well.

I agree - not that the BSD people will be losing much.

Re:Wayland & Mir (1)

infinitelink (963279) | about a year ago | (#43219551)

If Canonical is successful at duping (IMHO) a bunch of companies to buy into their (increasingly crappier, unstable, unreliable, less productive--IMHO) technology, I mean "vision", and Canonical is using Mir, then I hope KDE would start working to support it. There have already been statements, however, that a single-distribution, reduced-functionality package like Mir, will not be supported

Third question: Will KWin support Mir? No! Mir is currently a one distribution only solution and any adjustments would be distro specific. We do not accept patches to support one downstream. If there are downstream specific patches they should be applied downstream. This means at the current time there is no way to add support and even if someone would implement support for KWin on Ubuntu I would veto the patches as we donâ(TM)t accept distro-specific code. If Mir becomes available on more distributions one can consider the second question. Given the extreme success of Unity on non-Ubuntu distributions Iâ(TM)m positively optimistic that we will never have to do the evaluation of the second question.--http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/03/war-is-peace/ (other statements and restatements on this blog)

As an aside, given that the general consensus let's-all-pretend-to-get-along ego-fest that is FOSS, I can't blame Canonical for increasingly going its own way, given it wants to succeed on the consumer desktop (not business/corporation like the other guys), so I give them props for at least being (if arrogantly) gutsy about hoping to develop all this hyper-complex stuff on their own. In other news, I just discovered arch-for-newbs, or "manjaro" (http://manjaro.org/); though it's dual-monitor support is troubled, it's so light, quick, and customizable, that I'm definitely putting the tech-retarded folks I support on it the next time they kill a computer or get a new one. A few years ago I found Xubuntu to be excellent for the general end-user, and with the right tweaking this could be too. : D I love (and hate) FOSS!

Re:Wayland & Mir (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43220861)

Will KDE 5 be ported to Wayland? Also, on the Kubuntu side of things, will the Blue Systems folks port KDE to Mir? How much of Qt5 supports Wayland already? What would it take to support Mir?

As Unity is being rewritten using Qt, which is being ported to Mir, i belive most of the work will be done. I guess the KDE's compositor part of kwin will need most of the remaining work.

It's pretty (1)

roman_mir (125474) | about a year ago | (#43211833)

Tried Plasma on Mint 13, it's quite pretty. Much prettier than Gnome based desktop for sure. Hopefully it just ends up with incremental improvements rather than complete redesigns and moving from one paradigm to another.

You know, it's nice to be able to rely on a desktop environment improving but mostly staying the same, so you don't have to bother re-learning all about it over and over with every release.

I moved away from Ubuntu because of Gnome 3 and of-course Unity, using Mint with Mate for now (not just for myself, suggest it to the clients), hopefully after a while I can start suggesting Plasma for business. I have to experiment and figure out all the parts needed to lock the desktop environment into a particular scheme, so that it could be easily set up for that scheme and locked enough, so that the user couldn't actually modify it and change what he sees on the desktop himself.

Wonder if there is a way to have a single text config file that could be dropped into a system and be read by some configuration tool to turn the desktop into exactly the desktop that the config file was exported from. Maybe there is a way to do it? Yes, this can be done by installing from an image, but that's a different situation.

Re:It's pretty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212449)

Wonder if there is a way to have a single text config file that could be dropped into a system and be read by some configuration tool to turn the desktop into exactly the desktop that the config file was exported from. Maybe there is a way to do it? Yes, this can be done by installing from an image, but that's a different situation.

Works with the blackbox family of WMs, though it'll take at least two text files.

Re:It's pretty (3, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year ago | (#43212633)

It's also nice to use a desktop whose designers actually think you should be allowed to configure it to look and act the way that you want.

Re:It's pretty (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about a year ago | (#43212719)

shame the admin doesn't want the same :)

Re:It's pretty (1)

udippel (562132) | about a year ago | (#43213295)

Is this now an argument in favour of KDE?
Or is it orthogonal to the question of Desktop Environments?

Re:It's pretty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43213833)

Sort of. Gnome developers tend to think that all applications can be reduced to a single button. They believe that not only is every user too stupid to use any GUI more complex than a single button but that they're so much smarter than the user that they can fit every use case behind that one button.

Why provide a tool box any way? A hammer can solve any problem. The user is probably too stupid to use anything other than a hammer anyway.

Just like Lines of Code is the universal quality which says everything about software development, the number of mouse clicks (finger taps) says everything about the value of a UI. Fewer buttons and UI elements means there's less to click on. Fewer clicks always wins the UI debate just like Lines of Code always wins debates about software design and programmer productivity.

Anyone that disagrees with the One Button to Rule them All mandate clearly wants Linux to be hard and therefore exclusive to geeks.

There's no real problem with taking any one concept too far.

Re:It's pretty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43214459)

You miss the part where Linux == GNOME in their warped minds and if you are not using GNOME then you shall reimplement GNOME interfaces at your own expenses. Mark my words with the arrival of GNOME 3.8 and later.

Re:It's pretty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43214355)

KDE has always been about configurability, just google around, there are people who have made KDE look very much like other systems, Mac OS X included albeit that does require some non-vanilla stuff to pull off the global top menu. And don't think that KDE can merely mimicry other systems, KDE can be configured to be how you want it to be, for example, my desktop layout is probably unique in the whole world and the basic concept wise there's maybe 10 other people who have something similar.

Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

JThaddeus (531998) | about a year ago | (#43211865)

Lord, how I miss KDE3. It worked, simply worked. It didn't lock up. When my Linux box was running KDE3, I don't recall ever having to telnet in to restart a frozen machine. It happens all too often with KDE4. And KDE4 ruined, utterly ruined, KMail, once the best email program I ever used. KDE4's efforts at a "semantic desktop" and a "personal information manager" rendered over a dozen years of email archives unsearchable by anything but find and grep. Restarting, clean-up and reinstalling, etc. never worked. Hello, Thunderbird. You ain't all that great, but at least you let me search old emails. Farewell, KDE. Farewell SUSE. Farewell, Linux. My personal workstation has been Linux since 2000, but it looks like you've driven me back to my first love, the Macintosh.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (3, Informative)

udippel (562132) | about a year ago | (#43211901)

Come on, get a new life!
Sure, those Akonadi-Nepomuk failures are a big hassle, and basing a mail client on a non-functional database is plain stupid.
Done and over.
Switch off those buggers, learn to live with Thunderbird, and you might find the more recent KDEs quite suitable. At least here, I could not second your opinion of crash-friendliness. Not with 4.5 and onward.
At least, I am a rather recent KDE convert, since it allows me to configure my desktop as I so desire with a lot of edge events and basically panel-less.

And while I was an Apple-advocat myself, recent developments at Apple would make me think thrice before throwing my money at them.
YMMV.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (2)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | about a year ago | (#43211949)

Second for Akonadi-Nepomuk failure. The two are the first thing I completely remove from a new installation.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (2)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#43216279)

No more need to remove them, since sometime last year they just work, and it works nicely to have everything indexed.
I can't comment on KMail, I always found Thunderbird more versatile.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

mangobrain (877223) | about a year ago | (#43212179)

I don't use KDE, but I can't help thinking that people who recommend disabling these things - and I've read a lot of similar recommendations - are somewhat missing the point. They're enabled by default because they're supposed to work. The mail client that ships as part of the application suite should not be useless.

I've had some painful experiences with Evolution on GNOME over the years*. I moaned about it, filed bugs, commented on existing bugs, and sometimes just had to give in and use a web-based front-end for email. My underlying feelings are much the same: Evolution is supposed to work, so at no point did I recommend to anyone that they just disable it and move on.

Don't sweep these things under the rug!

* What is it about mail, calendaring & contacts that seems to be so difficult for open-source software to get right?

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212349)

>They're enabled by default because they're supposed to work.

They're enabled by default because SEMANTIC DESKTOP GUYS WHAT YOU CAN'T UDNERSTAND HERE WE ALL NEED IT YOU ALL DO NEED IT SUCKERS. One of the worst things I've seen that tried to jump on (any) desktop is this semantic desktop thing. It never works, eats resources and brings exactly one new thing - nothing. Give this shit to enterprise desktops, I heard they like doing things that way.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

timbo234 (833667) | about a year ago | (#43213783)

I absolutely agree with the idea that they're supposed to work. But the guy you replied to was saying not to throw the baby out with the bath water and dump the whole KDE DE because of problems with Nepomuk, Akonadi and Kmail. You can disable Nepomuk easily in KDE System Settings, ignore Akonadi and use Thunderbird instead of KMail and still take advantage of KDE.

Opening bugs is the best thing to do in most cases with Open Source, but I get the feeling that in the case of Nepomuk and Akonadi especially it's the fundamental design that's the problem. The developers are unlikely to change that for similar reasons to why the GNOME 3 developers won't change their fundamental design decisions despite user complaints.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

udippel (562132) | about a year ago | (#43221303)

Pity you didn't get the mod points that you deserved.
Because the Akonadi-Nepomuk disaster is well known, and has seen plenty of bug reports over the years.Alas, the KDE-PIM people are block-headed enough to simply ignore them ("works for me").
Actually, come to think of it, the real culprits are the KMail-people. Because the idea of a semantic desktop is great. Had it worked, we would not have seen the Vista disaster, and had it worked on KDE the great thing would be the complete integration of all 'personal' applications. Not entering your contacts in the mail client, the messenger, address book, scheduler, you name it. Logically, the semantic desktop needs to come and will come. Sooner or later. Therefore, working on it is fine, in principle.
The idiotic idea is rather, to take a functional, if not mature, application of yours (KMail) and rip it apart. For the sole reason that you want to make it compliant with that futuristic semantic desktop. So that, once it arrives, some time into the future, in a year or three, eventually the next generation, then your application will work, again.
That's the downside of a so-called community-based development: There is no way to kick someone's buttocks. There is no accountability. And no way for the community to stop a project from going bonkers. Lesson number one from the development model of a community-based Free Software: There is no way of stopping an egotistic maniac. From ruining a whole project. GNOME stands even more prominent here.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

xiando (770382) | about a year ago | (#43212607)

I too used KMail as my e-mail client all through the KDE3 times and I too found it annoying that the Akonadi-Nepomuk crap ruined the whole kdepim suite. And we are at KDE 4.10.1 now and it's 2013 and KMail/KDEPIM is still a buggy mess. I use claws-mail and Xfce4 as desktop now.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about a year ago | (#43211941)

So, Akonadi and Nepomuk are the reasons you don't use KDE4? Just disable them. I have to admit that I used Linux almost exclusively from 1994 until 2005 and semi-exclusively from 2006-2007 (I needed to dualboot 2005, 2007 because apps I needed were not up-to-scratch in Linux as I changed hobbies and got very much into photography). I kept Linux installed from 2007-2010 but my primary OS was Windows. I couldn't use Linux because I hated Gnome and KDE was a little bit unstable. In 2011 I deleted Linux from my machine altogether -- it was like saying goodbye to an old friend. In 2012 I just couldn't resist installing it again and did so. I tried Ubuntu at first. Gnome. Hate it. Did I say how much I hate Gnome? I've hated it since the year 1999 or whenever it was I first encountered the horrid beast. In 2000 you installed it and there was a huge fucking foot (maybe 64x64 pixels) placed by default in the lower left-hand corner of the screen. Fortunately there was Windowmaker and KDE. I couldn't entirely commit to KDE at that time because of licensing concerns, but it was a darn sight better than Gnome. Anyway at that time I used neither and just stuck with windowmaker. I think it was around 2006 that I switched to KDE. Not sure of the exact year and used it happily until KDE 4 came along. No big deal, I thought -- I'll just stick with version 3. But no, it was all a big trainwreck with (kde-based) distros requiring unstable and useless and shit KDE 4. It was basically impossible to use KDE3. But, KDE did and has basically matured. I use it daily now. It's relatively fast, looks nice (to me) and does what I want it to. I hope the KDE4-5 transition is a lot less painful compared to the KDE3-4 transition.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (3, Informative)

houghi (78078) | about a year ago | (#43212009)

I couldn't use Linux because I hated Gnome and KDE was a little bit unstable.

I like neither. I just use XFCE. I came from first Enlightenment and then Windowmaker.
Another option is LXDE and there are even more options.

If your distro does not support it, just change to a distro that does.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212181)

One does not simply "change distros"

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212579)

I did. Went from Sayabon to OpenSUSE. Couldn't be happier.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212019)

You can disable Nepomuk and you can not use akonadi.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (2)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43212085)

If you can get it to install on your distro (not available for Fedora 18, and the source build instructions aren't very well written), consider giving Trinity Desktop a spin.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | about a year ago | (#43213585)

In my years of using KDE4 I have never once had it lock up, and I have used it on tens of machines all with different hardware configuration. Laptop / Desktop and Intel / AMD 32 bit and 64 bit processors, running multiple VMs, using NVIDIA / ATI / and Intel graphics chipsets as well as wired and wireless NICs that run the gamet as well. I don't know what you are doing, but you are definitely doing it wrong.

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43214427)

I read that those things had been fixed in KDE 4.10

Re:Fix Akonadi, Nepomuk, etc. (1)

horza (87255) | about a year ago | (#43219903)

Never liked Kmail, Thunderbird all the way (Claws was like my fav ever, The Bat!, but lacked the polish). The great thing about Thunderbird is that it works on every OS. KDE4 is very good on the desktop, solid for me since 4.2, but this bug [launchpad.net] locks up my netbook so I use XFCE4 on that. With the Unity spyware scandal, KDE has never had a better opportunity to win back market share.

Phillip.

Plasma2 Alpha Shader Demo (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about a year ago | (#43211875)

So, I glance through the article and notice: [...]so KDE Applications are now less “special” in the Qt world — a good thing for portability.[...]. Without even having to scroll and just 2 paragraphs later I see there is a cool embedded video. Might be interesting. But, I gaze at it.

I'm not going to press play. I just stare.

void main (void) { gl_FragColor = vec4(0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.6); }

I am so glad they are focussing on portability.

Re:Plasma2 Alpha Shader Demo (3)

mangobrain (877223) | about a year ago | (#43212207)

I don't understand. What's so non-portable about a GLSL [wikipedia.org] fragment shader?

Wait a minute.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43211973)

The windows resize to accommodate the scrollbar on mouseover, then shrink again on mouseout?

This is best-of-breed Linux-on-the-desktop-2013-for-sure UI design is it?

Re:Wait a minute.... (1)

stilborne (85590) | about a year ago | (#43212679)

Those aren't windows, those are desktop widgets. Nice try, though.

Re:Wait a minute.... (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about a year ago | (#43213179)

This is stuff that is thrown at the user the first time they log in to KDE. It's like the dev team plays games with me and it reminds of flash pop-ups on mouse over, on certain web pages. I could probably disable that effect - and have either the controls permanently displayed or permanently hidden, for instance.
But I'm a potential new user, willing to give it a try, and I don't know yet where's KDE's control panel or config files. So I close the widgets. Then, the animation on minimize/maximize windows hurt my eyes more than anything else, and the whole experience is too much gray and blue overall, so I log out before spending hours learning the beast.
This has happened to me every time I've had a look at KDE 4 (about once every two years).

Re:Wait a minute.... (2)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#43216385)

You should get your vision checked out before this affliction ruins the rest of your life.

While this looks neat, (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212001)

how will a wobbling window help me do my work?

I understand that these effects are fun to program, but again, I'd prefer a plain looking UI that doesn't get in my way.

Re:While this looks neat, (5, Insightful)

yahwotqa (817672) | about a year ago | (#43212049)

So disable that effect. It is up to you to tweak the interface to your liking, not up to its creators to provide the software in millions slight variations, exactly as everyone and their dog wants it.

Re:While this looks neat, (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#43213977)

To disable an effect, it has to be on by default first. No wobble effect has ever been on by default in KDE land.

Re:While this looks neat, (4, Funny)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about a year ago | (#43212067)

It's such a shame that there is only one desktop / window manager available for X. If only there were some choice in the matter. If only there were many different interfaces which could run atop the generic backend graphics stack. I just wish that they would release different environments which would allow me to choose the look of my UI depending on my preferences. Why hasn't there been any development put into some kind of Lightweight, X11 Desktop Environment? I am so very upset that there is only one desktop environment available for Linux and that I'll have to use it.

Re:While this looks neat, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212111)

Mod parent +Informative, please
(just for the fun of it)

Re:While this looks neat, (2)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year ago | (#43212623)

It would have been funny, but that there are so many Ubuntu users who don't know better.

Re:While this looks neat, (4, Insightful)

stilborne (85590) | about a year ago | (#43212701)

As Sebastian has noted clearly time and again, the effects shown in the demo are what are used to test the framework. They are not the default effects that will be part of the actually released product. It is not unusual for framework test applications to look odd or even plain out ugly as their job is to push the framework and test the various capabilities.

So, no .. this isn't about wobbling things. It's about having a working hardware accelerated canvas that can be extended in several ways, one of which includes OpenGL shaders...

Re:While this looks neat, (1)

udippel (562132) | about a year ago | (#43213383)

I don't have mod points, alas.
Please, someone mod this up (and subsequently the others further up down). If only to set a signal, indicating that the discussion further up is - sorry - based on a lack of understanding. Nobody in their sane mind wants anything close to what we can see in the clip. Period. Not even the author. Over.

The alpha software is a demo for widgets, and interaction with shaders. Finished. Done.
It also shows the almost revolutionary aspects of Qt5, probably the only toolkit that allows to 'write once and run anywhere' of interfaces; which must by definition be based on something other than a geometrical construct of frame borders in a pixel-based sense.

KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212055)

KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable, period. Years wasted, usability lost.
Please, keep it simple and release a working desktop manager as XFCE.
Performances and resource usage comes right after usability, and would be nice having something using less / better resources of previous generation dm.

Re:KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212387)

KDE 4 actually uses less RAM than KDE 3 (in my experience).
It is also more responsive.
I don't know wth are you talking about.

Re:KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212417)

KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable, period.

Are you sure, question mark.

Re:KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about a year ago | (#43214473)

There have been 10 iterations of KDE 4, and 3 of GNOME3. KDE 4.10 is said to be much improved, and for those who would like a simple Qt based DE, there is Razor-qt. On GNOME 3.6, I don't know how it stands at the moment.

Re:KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable (1)

richlv (778496) | about a year ago | (#43216567)

i just upgraded to opensuse 12.3 on the laptop. comes with kde 4.10 - definitely an improvement in many areas (since 4.7).
spotted a few minor bugs still, so not as robust as 3.5.10 was ;)

Re:KDE4 and Gnome 3 are unusable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43215045)

I've been using Gnome 3 since the first release. Quite successfully. I've had no issues at all. Your statement is invalid.

Same as in the rest of Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212421)

A bunch of geeks are reinventing the wheel badly (LOOK !!! new colours ! new shapes !) whilst refusing to fix existing bugs or address usability issues.

News at 11..

Re:Same as in the rest of Linux (1)

stilborne (85590) | about a year ago | (#43212731)

It's not either/or, but both/and. Bugs are fixed, usability is improved .. AND work is ongoing at making necessary infrastructural improvements.

If what you got from this article was "new colors! new shapes!" you have somehow misunderstood what you were seeing. The colors and shapes are completely secondary to the work being done to modularize the existing libraries and have support for hardware accelerated rendering for the entire desktop shell. The colors and shapes are parts of a test framework designed to, well, test the underlying framework; they are not a user-facing product.

Perhaps /. isn't the best place for topics that aren't about cosmetics.

Mac support originally scheduled for KDE4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212637)

Wake me up when it works on Mac

Re:Mac support originally scheduled for KDE4 (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43212673)

It does, and amarok/digikam are infinitely less shitty than itunes/iphoto.

Re:Mac support originally scheduled for KDE4 (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | about a year ago | (#43213061)

Select KDE programs do work. KDE Plasma Desktop does not work. Its kind of sad, but no one really stepped up to do it. KDE3 was working at some point.

Re:Mac support originally scheduled for KDE4 (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43213121)

No matter how much I think the plasma desktop is better than the mac alternative, it is clearly a waste of resources to maintain it: if people wanted to run a Linux interface, they would run Linux :)

Re:Mac support originally scheduled for KDE4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43214223)

Amarok hasn't been better than anything since 1.4.

Re:Mac support originally scheduled for KDE4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43216733)

Clementine, home skillet.

Re:Mac support originally scheduled for KDE4 (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | about a year ago | (#43213993)

This story is about Plasma Workspaces, not KDE Applications. KDE Applications mostly work on Mac, while Plasma Workspaces were never intended to run on OSX.

I know how to answer this question! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43212667)

I believe the answer to this headline should be "no".

Re:I know how to answer this question! (1)

neminem (561346) | about a year ago | (#43213131)

Sure. Only it should be spoken like "nooooooo..." As in, "noooooo... messing up what was once an *almost* decent UI even more, I'm sure..."

KDE 4.9+ is rock stable and better than 3.x (2)

Magnus Pym (237274) | about a year ago | (#43214777)

Hi,

I'm a great fan of KDE 3.x also. For what it is worth, I find that KDE4.9+ to be as stable as 3.x ever was, and as feature-full... as a DESKTOP.

I also switched away from KDE 4 to gnome in the early days of KDE4, and was rather reluctantly forced away from Gnome by the recent modifications. I tried KDE4.9 that was packaged as part of Fedora 18, and was very pleasantly surprised. KDE has recovered. It is VERY configurable, supports the usual windows paradigms that we're used to and is very very stable.

HOWEVER, the KDE apps are a different story. They are still half-complete, buggy and lose data. Even basic apps that I use regularly are fairly primitive. For example, KDE has a number of image viewers (Gwenview, Kuickshow...) but none of them can hold a candle to the power, elegance and simplicity of an 8-year old GQview or its modern cousin Geeqie. I tried the mail app on an experimental basis and was rewarded by prompt crashes and data corruptions. There is nothing even close to Gimp, Pan or other staples of Gnome.

So I find myself in the weird position of running the KDE desktop, but using mostly gnome apps.

Re:KDE 4.9+ is rock stable and better than 3.x (1)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#43216543)

As a heavy photo tools user I can say you are off the mark.

Gwenview is since several years a lot better, faster and more complete than Geeqie, the various thumbnail options alone are a reason to use it.

Just open a directory containing several thousands of pictures and try to zap through it, Geeqie is painfully slow, Gwenview just shows you the next picture near instantaneous.

Geeqie has one advantage left, it's build-in duplicate search.
Gwenview does not offer much for editing but a right click will open the picture in Showfoto, The Gimp or what ever you fancy.

Re:KDE 4.9+ is rock stable and better than 3.x (1)

kayoshiii (1099149) | about a year ago | (#43216923)

If you want duplicate image search functionality, then you can move up to the heavyweight of the KDE image viewer world - digikam

Re:KDE 4.9+ is rock stable and better than 3.x (1)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#43217457)

digikam wants to 'organise' my photo's, something I think I do better.

Re:KDE 4.9+ is rock stable and better than 3.x (1)

kayoshiii (1099149) | about a year ago | (#43216827)

yeah kuickshow has been a dead project for many years now - I am surprised you could find a copy... This kind of dates your reply

Re:KDE 4.9+ is rock stable and better than 3.x (1)

homm2 (729109) | about a year ago | (#43222281)

I guess I'm a biased KDE user, but I prefer KDE apps in many or most instances. As another commenter noted, Gwenview is stable, fast, and reasonably powerful. As for photo-editing apps, most people may prefer Gimp, but I think Krita can hold a candle and even has a few features that Gimp doesn't (see this [stevenpowerssmp.com] comparison).

Other examples of (in my opinion) superior KDE apps include Dolphin (vs Nautilus), Kate (vs Gedit), Kile (a LaTeX IDE, Gnome has nothing comparible), Kmail (vs Evolution), Okular (vs Evince), and K3B (vs Brasero).

There are definitely some Gnome apps that I find better as well, including Inkscape (vs. Karbon) and the newsgroup app you mentioned, Pan. I should add that not all of these are really "Gnome" apps, but they all use GTK.

More modular codebase? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43215993)

Does that mean that we will finally be able to install KDE without akonadi, nepomuk and such, and they will become optional modules instead of requirements?
Modularity means that, doesn't it?

Re:More modular codebase? (1)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#43216583)

Or you could just install and enjoy them.
Akonadi and Nepomuk are not so much modules, they are a central part of the desktop experience.

Of course they had huge problems but thanks to all the bug reports and work by the developers something good came out of it.

Re:More modular codebase? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43218019)

I wish I was able to not install them at all.
Or at least be able to remove them, not disable. Remove completely so that the packages are no longer downloaded and upgraded.
If they can be disabled, why can't they be removed? Functionality would be the same with them disabled or removed. But the packages are forced on each KDE install even if you are going to just disable them.

Re:More modular codebase? (1)

kayoshiii (1099149) | about a year ago | (#43216879)

These are currently modular but enabled by default. I think Nepomuk is the main offender here. Akonadi is just a front end agnostic backend for PIM software in much the same way that telepathy is for instant messaging

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