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MasterCard Forcing PayPal To Pay Higher Fees

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the and-they'll-pass-the-spendings-on-to-you dept.

Businesses 260

iComp sends this quote from El Reg: "PayPal, Google Wallet and other online payment systems face higher transaction fees from MasterCard in retaliation for their refusal to share data on what people are spending. Visa is likely to follow suit. The amount that PayPal has to pay MasterCard for every transaction will go up as the latter introduces new charges for intermediated payment processors. This change is on the grounds that such processors don't share transaction details, which the card giants would love to get hold of as it can be used to research buying patterns and the like. Companies such as PayPal allow payments between users, so the party (perhaps a merchant) receiving the money doesn't need to be registered with the credit-card company. PayPal collects the dosh from the payer's card, and deducts a processing fee before passing the cash on to the receiving party. MasterCard would prefer the receiver to be registered directly so will apply the new fee from June to any payment that is staged in this way."

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Card to Card payments (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251283)

Perhaps if Mastercard and Visa hadn't allowed PaypaI to usurp what they could very well have done themselves, long ago, they wouldn't be in this situation. I've always wanted the ability to painlessly send someone money, directly, and it's idiotic that paypaI (and other 3rd party wallet services) are the only way to do it. Completely redundant.

Re:Card to Card payments (5, Funny)

DanielRavenNest (107550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251321)

> I've always wanted the ability to painlessly send someone money, directly,

Behold: http://bitcoin.org/en/ [bitcoin.org]

It's not everywhere yet, but it will be soon.

Re:Card to Card payments (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251367)

Well, it's in your fairytale dreamland, that's certain.

Re:Card to Card payments (3, Funny)

sgbett (739519) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251491)

In Big Bad Ben Bernanke's fariytale dreamland he is seeking help from the Childlike Empress, so that together they can convince Atreyu to believe in the USD, lest it blink out of existence through lack of faith.

I'd say its a coin flip as to which one your money is safest in :)

Re: Card to Card payments (2)

finity (535067) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251857)

Are you suggesting that Bitcoin is as safe as the USD? One of those still works when the lights go out...

Re: Card to Card payments (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252251)

USD doesn't work so well when the lights go out either. All the notes are the same size - unlike every other currency I've handled there's no easy way to tell them apart without being able to see them.

Re: Card to Card payments (2)

newcastlejon (1483695) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252367)

All the notes are the same size - unlike every other currency I've handled there's no easy way to tell them apart without being able to see them.

I'm curious, how do blind Americans cope? Here in the UK the notes grow larger as denomination increases.

As an aside, I think we have better portraits too: rather than previous prime ministers we have the likes of humanitarians [wikipedia.org] , naturalists [wikipedia.org] , composers (albeit overrated IMO) [wikipedia.org] , philosophers [wikipedia.org] and engineers. [wikipedia.org] The queen is on all of them, naturally, but having her face on things is pretty much half of all she does.

Re: Card to Card payments (2)

rmdingler (1955220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252517)

Blind folks are at the mercy of bill sorting different denominations in their wallets and the honesty of the people they trade with here in The States. As for Bitcoins, there's a story circulating at work about a $400K California home for sale for cash OR 5500 bitcoins. It would be very neat to see things like that happen!

Re: Card to Card payments (4, Informative)

hawguy (1600213) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252815)

Are you suggesting that Bitcoin is as safe as the USD? One of those still works when the lights go out...

Don't count on your paper US dollars working when the lights go out. I was in an area with an extended power outage -- the grocery store down the street had emergency generators to keep the freezers and lights on... but they couldn't get their cash register system up and were unable to make any sales (not even cash sales) until the registers came back up. It took most of a day to get the registers working.

Re:Card to Card payments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251869)

In Big Bad Ben Bernanke's fariytale dreamland he is seeking help from the Childlike Empress, so that together they can convince Atreyu to believe in the USD, lest it blink out of existence through lack of faith.

I'd say its a coin flip as to which one your money is safest in :)

I know. It's a never-ending story...

Re:Card to Card payments (2)

wiredlogic (135348) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251453)

Let's see what happens after the current BitCoin bubble pops before making any prognostications about is long term viability.

obvious troll is blatent (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251471)

Only if someone can explain how I can configure my HOSTS file to prevent the IRS from tracking my transactions! I've heard if I program an Arduino to physically create bitcoins with a 3D printer, they can be exchanged without passing through the government's firewall.

Re:Card to Card payments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251325)

This is why I'll be using BitCoin for all future purchases.

Re:Card to Card payments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251425)

This is why I'll be using BitCoin for all future purchases.

I guess you're going to die of starvation in a month or so... I have yet to see a grocery store accept bitcoin. Same story with mortgage companies/landlords, public utilities, medical care...

It's gonna be a while before you can ditch government currencies.

Re:Card to Card payments (2)

an00bis (667089) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251789)

whoosh

Re:Card to Card payments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251443)

Perhaps if Mastercard and Visa hadn't allowed PaypaI to usurp what they could very well have done themselves, long ago, they wouldn't be in this situation. I've always wanted the ability to painlessly send someone money, directly, and it's idiotic that paypaI (and other 3rd party wallet services) are the only way to do it. Completely redundant.

Many banks and credit unions accept scanned checks [fivecentnickel.com] .

Re:Card to Card payments (4, Informative)

wiredlogic (135348) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251533)

That is an insecure option since checks have your account number on them which can be used for fraudulent access to your money. PayPal's escrow through an email address is far safer.

Re:Card to Card payments (3, Interesting)

scottrocket (1065416) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252349)

Retailer: "Hello MasterCard? This customer just purchased a debit card from us, using your MasterCard - just letting you know, as per our reduced fee agreement."

MasterCard: "Okay - what did they buy?"

Retailer: "Our debit card." *click

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252707)

PayPal is safe now?

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

DarthBart (640519) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251725)

That wasn't viable until the Check21 act was passed in October of 2003. Paypal was already 3 years old by that point. And really, it wasn't until the past 2 or 3 years that banks have been accepting customer-side deposits by scanning.

Re:Card to Card payments (4, Interesting)

jeffmeden (135043) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251605)

Perhaps if Mastercard and Visa hadn't allowed PaypaI to usurp what they could very well have done themselves, long ago, they wouldn't be in this situation. I've always wanted the ability to painlessly send someone money, directly, and it's idiotic that paypaI (and other 3rd party wallet services) are the only way to do it. Completely redundant.

The problem with those kinds of transactions is that they are inherently risky, since there is not a merchant on hand to blame in the event of a chargeback. Visa and Mastercard stayed the hell away from that nightmare, and it is telling that only a company as skeezy as PayPal has managed to make it profitable for so long.

It used to be that Paypal and similar services weren't there to take away transactions from normal merchants (since only small "peer to peer" transactions, like you mention, went through them) but Paypal has grown to be a behemoth that has elbowed it's way into every online merchant's payment options, for some strange reason (what good is it unless you for some reason already have money stored at the bank of paypal?). Mastercard and Visa are naturally skeptical, because PayPal is basically taking mindshare that they could easily shift to their own credit service (if they wanted to start being regulated like a legitimate business, that is.) This is the writing on the wall that PayPal should either rethink their strategy, or accelerate it. Visa, in their own right, has started basically a competitive service (V.me) and is actively going at merchants to reclaim some ground.

Re:Card to Card payments (5, Insightful)

nabsltd (1313397) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251979)

Paypal has grown to be a behemoth that has elbowed it's way into every online merchant's payment options, for some strange reason (what good is it unless you for some reason already have money stored at the bank of paypal?).

I can pay using Paypal, Google Checkout, etc., without ever giving my credit card number out to random websites.

That's huge, as I don't have to trust the website quite as much. It still may be a scam of some sort, but at most I would be out the cost of that single transaction, since they won't be able to run up charges on my card.

Re:Card to Card payments (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252215)

Basally the problem is banks and credit card companies don't understand the concept of information security. like at all.

Their transaction security model is vulnerable to replay attack (once a merchant has my credit card number and billing address they can charge my card whenever they want)

What PayPal does is require me to log into their service and authorize any transaction before it will be executed. Thus they act as a buffer between my dangerously incompetent credit card company and the potentially villainous merchant with whom I am dealing.

All banks and credit card companies have to do to kill PayPall forever is bring their transaction security model out of the 19th century.

Re:security (2, Interesting)

rduke15 (721841) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252639)

banks and credit card companies don't understand the concept of information security

They do. But they are not concerned about things like password theft, because neither the bank nor their customers lose money that way.

So nobody cares about what you may perceive as bad security. As this PDF [microsoft.com] linked from this recent /. story [slashdot.org] shows, only third-party suckers lose money when a bank password is abused.

Re:security (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252837)

So the fact they would have access to your account, to link to another account at a different financial service to transfer your funds (who knows maybe a few times via a few hacked or "fake accounts" to finally withdrawal via debit card or whatever (money laundering service?) And disappear...

Re:Card to Card payments (4, Informative)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252769)

All banks and credit card companies have to do to kill PayPall forever is bring their transaction security model out of the 19th century.

What's worse is that they already have exactly that security model. Visa bought Orbiscom a few years ago. Orbiscom is the creater of "disposable" credit card numbers. You log into their system, specify a maximum limit and an expiration date and they generate a credit card number for you that is linked to your primary account. After a merchant charges that number it "binds" to them so that no ther merchants can charge it. Once the credit limit or expiration date is hit, the number stops working completely.

Only a handful of banks use this - Bonk of America is probably the biggest one, they call it "shopsafe." But the only reason they use it is that they inherited it when they bought MBNA. I've been using Shopsafe for nearly 15 years now for all of my online purchases and I've never had a problem. MBNA used to advertise that they never had even a single case of fraud with ShopSafe, I don't know if that's changed or if BoA is too stupid to continue advertising it that way.

Re:Card to Card payments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252845)

What's worse is that they already have exactly that security model. Visa bought Orbiscom a few years ago. Orbiscom is the creater of "disposable" credit card numbers. You log into their system, specify a maximum limit and an expiration date and they generate a credit card number for you that is linked to your primary account. After a merchant charges that number it "binds" to them so that no ther merchants can charge it. Once the credit limit or expiration date is hit, the number stops working completely.

That sounds like a PITA to me.

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

suutar (1860506) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252859)

Ah, thank you! I remembered hearing about this model and wanting to use it but not who had it available or what it was called. Now to go talk to BoA about a credit card.

Re:Card to Card payments (4, Interesting)

Darinbob (1142669) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252881)

But only if you also trust PayPal. PayPal is not regulated well under most banking or consumer protection laws. PayPal will lock up your money if there's a disputed transaction, with no recourse for the seller (it's hard to separate PayPal from eBay here, since eBay mandates the use of the PayPal option and it's the biggest use of PayPal). I'm baffled why someone would be worried about security of banks or credit cards but then happily get into bed with PayPal.

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252423)

"but Paypal has grown to be a behemoth that has elbowed it's way into every online merchant's payment options, for some strange reason (what good is it unless you for some reason already have money stored at the bank of paypal?)."

Uh, I sell stuff online, and I use paypal. Why?

To take orders the traditional way you have to open a merchant account at a bank. Then you need to sign up wit a payment service provider, and pay monthly fees and stuff. It's a pain in the ass, and it costs a lot of money.

Paypal in the other hand is simple. I set up an account, and whether I'm an individual or a merchant I can just start taking payments. It's easy to add their payment button to my website too. I hardly need to know any html to do it.

As for what good it is, you obviously don't use Paypal much if you think you need money in your paypal account, or even a paypal account at all, to buy stuff through it. You can just use your credit card if you don't have a paypal account.

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252619)

"you obviously don't use Paypal much if you think you need money in your paypal account, or even a paypal account at all, to buy stuff through it. You can just use your credit card if you don't have a paypal account.

Not universally. There are times I'll click to buy an item on eBay, and given a response that the seller accepts only from Paypal. My credit card is no good to that seller.

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

suutar (1860506) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252877)

last time I bought something through paypal, there was a (not very obvious) option at paypal's site to use my card without creating an account. It may not have been there (or have been better hidden) when you went, though.

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

jandrese (485) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251651)

But but think of the merchant fees that they might miss out on! This is a case of the old business model preventing a company from making the transition to the new world.

Re:Card to Card payments (1)

lazarusdishwasher (968525) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252077)

Perhaps if Mastercard and Visa hadn't allowed PaypaI to usurp what they could very well have done themselves, long ago, they wouldn't be in this situation. I've always wanted the ability to painlessly send someone money, directly, and it's idiotic that paypaI (and other 3rd party wallet services) are the only way to do it. Completely redundant.

Have you heard of popmoney? They have a tab inside my online banking page. https://www.popmoney.com/ [popmoney.com]

Please do (5, Funny)

rduke15 (721841) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252419)

<quote>I've always wanted the ability to painlessly send someone money</quote>

Please do! Here is my IBAN number: CH14 0025 5255 F665 2263 0

Thanks.

Re:Card to Card payments (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252663)

I suppose that the U.S. Postal Service would be viable, if one was willing to accept risk of lost mail.

I blocked PayPal using my HOST file (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251295)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.

INCONTROVERTIBLE FEEDBACK PROVIDING ESTABLISHED PROOF OF ALL MY POINTS:

--

That was amazing. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]

--

My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]

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Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]

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put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]

--

Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]

--

He's done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone in the "do it right and set up a firewall" crowd ever could. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

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Can I have some of what you're on? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40947587 [slashdot.org]

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this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]

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oh come on.. this is hilarious. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]

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I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]

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Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]

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As mentioned by another AC up there, the troll in question is actually a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

--

It's actually a very clever parody of APK - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]

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Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]

--

$20,000 to anyone providing proof of Alexander Peter Kowalski's death. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958289 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]

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And here I was thinking I was having a bad experience with a Dr. Bronner's bottle. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952247 [slashdot.org]

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Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]

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I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]

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Does anyone know if OpenGL has been ported to Windows yet? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956781 [slashdot.org]

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golfclap - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40900827 [slashdot.org]

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The Truth! wants to be Known! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897389 [slashdot.org]

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DNS cube? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897493 [slashdot.org]

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KUDOS valiant AC. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]

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Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]

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You made my day, thanks! - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]

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Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]

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truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]

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It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]

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Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]

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APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]

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You got that right. I think. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972239 [slashdot.org]

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Michael Kristopeit, is that you? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972377 [slashdot.org]

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ROFL! :) (Now the sick bastard will follow me again) - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429251 [slashdot.org]

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I miss Dr Bob. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432027 [slashdot.org]

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Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]

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Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]

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That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]

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I am intrigued and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555345 [slashdot.org]

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1. You philistine, that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]

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What? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]

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I don't know if it is poorly-thought-out, but it is demented because it is at the same time an APK parody. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832905 [slashdot.org]

--

It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]

--

er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]

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performance art - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847089 [slashdot.org]

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it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]

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Seems more like an apk parody. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]

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That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]

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Oh, come on. Just stand back and look at it. It's almost art, in a Jackson Pollock sort of way. - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41868923 [slashdot.org]

--

Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]

--

I can has summary? - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]

--

I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41868133 [slashdot.org]

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If [apk] made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41869409 [slashdot.org]

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DAFUQ I just look at? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869085 [slashdot.org]

--

Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]

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We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]

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Do you know about the shocking connection between APK and arsenic? No? Well, your innocence is about to be destroyed. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939965 [slashdot.org]

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Send bug reports to 903 east division street, syracuse, ny 13208 - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972783 [slashdot.org]

--

Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]

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Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]

--

In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]

--

You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]

--

"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]

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I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]

--

Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]

--

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43048291 [slashdot.org]

--

Best. Troll. Ever. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]

--

I like monkeys. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]

--

This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]

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lul wut? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3510265&cid=43057839 [slashdot.org]

--

I admire this guy's persistence. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]

--

It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]

--

Tabloid newspapers have speculated for years that APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. Too bad we didn't believe them sooner! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]

--

Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]

--

I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]

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^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]

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I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]

--

The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]

--

AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]

--

Don't hate the player, hate the game. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526293&cid=43110679 [slashdot.org]

--

If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]

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">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]

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No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]

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The thirteenth link is broken. Please fix it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115361 [slashdot.org]

--

Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]

--

Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]

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YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]

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I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]

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Can I be in your quote list? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]

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Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]

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+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]

--

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]

--

APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]

--

Anyone else think that sounds like Ron Paul? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43242417 [slashdot.org]

--

I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]

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You make mikael christ the pet look like an huggable teddy bear - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43242373 [slashdot.org]

--

oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]

--

"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]

--

"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]

--

"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]

--

Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]

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you have a point - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]

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I do admire that level of dedication. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]

--

--

--

--

Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

Disproof of all apk's statements:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040729&cid=40949719 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040697&cid=40949343 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040597&cid=40948659 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40947927 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040425&cid=40946755 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40942439 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3024445&cid=40942207 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40942031 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038601&cid=40942085 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040803&cid=40950045 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040867&cid=40950563 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40950839 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041035&cid=40951899 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952169 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041091&cid=40952383 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40952991 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954201 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956625 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897177 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40894889 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40886171 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042451&cid=40959497 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042547&cid=40960279 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042669&cid=40962027 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=40965091 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=40965087 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967049 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972117 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972271 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972313 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045349&cid=40973979 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3046181&cid=40978835 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3046211&cid=40979293 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3050711&cid=41002319 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3118863&cid=41341925 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3131751&cid=41397971 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429005 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3146511&cid=41469199 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3146549&cid=41469495 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509255 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555261 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832417 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41846971 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861263 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228787&cid=41866351 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228683&cid=41866627 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41866737 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41868513 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41868567 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869275 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229765&cid=41872927 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939773 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972349 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981835 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42988415 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3500483&cid=43026797 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028205 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43033535 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3504883&cid=43040365 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044767 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3507727&cid=43048175 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3507873&cid=43049019 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051385 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3509683&cid=43054221 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3510265&cid=43056879 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063711 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43066627 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43066843 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094323 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521669&cid=43094855 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521797&cid=43096277 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43096733 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097179 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522851&cid=43101761 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3523181&cid=43103421 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526293&cid=43109809 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526893&cid=43114659 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115059 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528811&cid=43116535 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216155 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569095&cid=43234975 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569109&cid=43235533 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3554655&cid=43201719 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3554655&cid=43209405 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236007 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=0020721&cid=43236047 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569235&cid=43236165 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236409 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43237015 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237473 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43237999 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569681&cid=43238497 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570077&cid=43240555 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43241141 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43241705 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570537&cid=43245089 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246739 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247187 [slashdot.org]
AND MANY MORE

--

* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts I practice.

Slowclap (-1, Offtopic)

Lazere (2809091) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251593)

I must admit, I admire the amount of dedication you've shown by placing almost all the responses to your copypasta *into* the copypasta. But in the same vein, I hate myself because I read them all...

Re:Slowclap (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252005)

It's not a human. It's a bot program written purely in hostfile.

Pass the buck (4, Insightful)

dciman (106457) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251347)

Guess end users will be seeing a fee increase coming our way. Awesome.

Re:Pass the buck (5, Insightful)

Krojack (575051) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251597)

I think on every transaction PP should list:

PayPal Transaction fee: $x.xx
*Mastercard Fee: $x.xx

* This fee is due to PayPal refusing to tell Mastercard what it is you're buying so they are now charging PayPal more. Their end cost has not increased, they are just greedy and want more money.

Re:Pass the buck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251981)

I really hope they do something like this and really make it out like they are dicks about it.

As much as I hate Paypal, at least they are honest dicks.

Re:Pass the buck (3, Interesting)

flimflammer (956759) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252585)

I would not call them honest dicks. They're just dicks. They might just be lesser dicks in this instance.

Re:Pass the buck (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252301)

I believe Mastercard's merchant agreement explicitly prohibits that.

Re:Pass the buck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251813)

Exactly this, it's not going to hurt the big companies any. Just what we need too. Yet another transaction fee for the average consumer tossed on top whenever dealing between PayPal and credit card companies.

You have to pay to play! (4, Insightful)

default luser (529332) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251353)

You remember when credit cards used to have annual fees? They didn't just forget about those costs, they just found new ways to make money off you!

Re:You have to pay to play! (1)

54mc (897170) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251641)

Interest?

Re:You have to pay to play! (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251755)

Interest on credit cards is nothing new, but there used to be usury laws that helped one distinguish between MasterCard and Louie the Loanshark.

Re:You have to pay to play! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252261)

It was my understanding that the banks made money on the interest, the CC company made money on fees and transactions. I could be wrong.

Re:You have to pay to play! (2)

isorox (205688) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252607)

Interest?

Never paid it. Each month a direct debit pays it off. I just get referee. And, free insurance, and free cash back. The retailer pays for this, but they don't give me a discount if I pay by debit card, so why should I?

Re:You have to pay to play! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252795)

To give better support to the retailer you visit and not the credit moguls?

Re:You have to pay to play! (1)

Carewolf (581105) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252901)

The retailer pays for this, but they don't give me a discount if I pay by debit card, so why should I?

They don't? That's stupid of them. All my retailers charge 0.5% extra if you use a credit card instead of a debit card.

Re:You have to pay to play! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251773)

what do you mean used to many still do.
__
posting AC due to mod points

Re:You have to pay to play! (2)

mattack2 (1165421) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252635)

The credit card companies are making money indirectly through my use of them, but on each individual purchase, I am paying the same _or less_ than if I were paying via cash or check, and it's more convenient than either. Of course I am counting cash back in that calculation.

They're paying *me* to get a free (interest wise) average 15 day loan of their money, since I pay in full every month. One of my cards did change back to having an annual fee in the past year or so, but IIRC when I figured it out at the time, the usage to avoid the fee was already way below the amount I use it for (normal daily purchases) or easily covered by the cash amounts I got.

can they get away with this? (4, Interesting)

sribe (304414) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251379)

I smell some antitrust concern here...

Re:can they get away with this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251845)

I would like to see MasterCard execs threatened the same way... "If you don't lower the rates for this and that company, you might loose some relatives..."

Re:can they get away with this? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251875)

Your concerns are noted and ignored. The goverment would also like to know who is sending money to who. Since they can't know, they'll have no problem with extra being charged instead. For now. Eventually it will require disclosure of all paypal transactions.

The excuse trotted out will be one of... Drug dealers, Terrorists, Or tax evasion. Maybe all three.

Bet.

Re:can they get away with this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252291)

The excuse trotted out will be one of... Drug dealers, Terrorists, Or tax evasion. Maybe all three.

Actually, those will be the real reasons, too.
What, you think the feds care what you're spending your money on? You're delusional.

There's things they LOVE to know about. (4, Interesting)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252731)

The excuse trotted out will be one of... Drug dealers, Terrorists, Or tax evasion. Maybe all three.

Actually, those will be the real reasons, too.
What, you think the feds care what you're spending your money on? You're delusional.

Actually, they'd love to know about a lot of your spending. For instance:
  - If you buy a gun: Then they'll know who to search if/when they decide to confiscate them.
  - If you buy gold, silver, or other long-term store-of-value commodities: If/when the dollar weakens they can make those illegal to possess and confiscate them to try proping pu the failing dollar and heading off a competing currency, forcing people to stick with the printing-press fiat money. (They already did that with gold during the Great Depression.)
  - If you buy a bunch of long-shelf-life food or other "survivalist" supplies. It's stuff to raid in a crisis and an indicator of who the non-sheep are.
  - If you buy political literature of a non-mainstream nature.
I could go on for pages.

Re:can they get away with this? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251901)

Sleeping dogs. PainPal is probably the last one that want's to awaken the antitrust-dog...

No idea who to root for in this... (5, Insightful)

Lendrick (314723) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251407)

Paypal and Mastercard are both horrible companies. I suppose I should side with the company trying not to share my personal data, but Paypal is incredibly sleazy and dishonest in its own right.

Re:No idea who to root for in this... (5, Interesting)

Beerdood (1451859) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251507)

I know! It's like watching two school bullies argues start to argue over something, as you're secretly hoping they'll get into a fight and both be suspended.

I could see MasterCard taking more of the hit for this though, Paypal funds can be added without any fee from a bank account, or with some new MoneyPak thing I'm just reading about for the first time - I forsee more people using this option if they have hefty fees when transferring from a credit card (Because the whole reason you're using Paypal is because you can't use your credit card in the first place, the money will be transferred if it has to be).

Re:No idea who to root for in this... (1)

Spoke (6112) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252235)

GreenDot MoneyPaks cost $4.99 to purchase. You're much better off funding your PayPal account with an ACH transfer.

Re:No idea who to root for in this... (4, Insightful)

dj245 (732906) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252507)

I know! It's like watching two school bullies argues start to argue over something, as you're secretly hoping they'll get into a fight and both be suspended. I could see MasterCard taking more of the hit for this though, Paypal funds can be added without any fee from a bank account, or with some new MoneyPak thing I'm just reading about for the first time - I forsee more people using this option if they have hefty fees when transferring from a credit card (Because the whole reason you're using Paypal is because you can't use your credit card in the first place, the money will be transferred if it has to be).

There is no way on this earth I am giving Paypal my bank account number. They have a long an continuing history of tomfoolery regarding people's money. I need a way to dispute their withdrawals if needed, and with ACH, once the money is gone, it's gone. With a Visa or Mastercard, generally you can dispute it.

Re:No idea who to root for in this... (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252925)

The only reason PayPal exists is because some companies will only accept PayPal transactions, and because eBay strongarms sellers/buyers into accepting PayPal.

Re:No idea who to root for in this... (2)

Artraze (600366) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251743)

Indeed. It is a little nice to see folks you don't like slug it out, and I dare say my opinion of Paypal almost went up slightly.

Still, we have to face that fact that in the end all this information is ending up in the same place. It's just a matter of who makes money selling it.

Re:No idea who to root for in this... (1)

Pliny (12671) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251999)

How about the people trying to route around them? Like Bitcoin? It's not just for goldbugs anymore....

Paypal doing the right thing? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251423)

Paypal is doing the right thing for once? Is the world going to come to an end soon?

Re:Paypal doing the right thing? (1)

Trepidity (597) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251489)

In this case because they don't have much choice: the entire point of PayPal when it comes to credit-card payments is as an intermediary that companies who aren't directly registered with a CC merchant account can use to receive CC payments.

Higher Fees (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251435)

Why am I not surprised, the rich will not tolerate the proletariat or others removing their rightful entitlement.

these are called 'downgrades' (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251449)

... and I'm hardly surprised. Mastercard has a stick up it's ass lately about that kind of thing.

SLightly confusing summary (2)

Spillman (711713) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251465)

So, this article is basically saying that if you receive credit card payments from PayPal and you aren't registered then you have to pay more? well, paypal has to pay more, but the savings will be passed on to you. Is there any source of what transactional data is shared? As someone who works with electornic funds transfer software, I only ever see non-personablly identifiable info in transactions. I can't say I blame Mastercard either, fraud is a major problem in this world. so until I see some real evidence, I will just assume that the author here is some tin-foil hat wearing privacy nut. but I will hapiily change my opinion if there are new facts....

Re:SLightly confusing summary (2)

wiredlogic (135348) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251717)

Is there any source of what transactional data is shared

All of it.

Before the modern era of internet driven big data there were companies like Acxiom (est. 1969) aggregating data from credit cards, store cards, gas cards, telephone books(*), and whatever other consumer data they could get their hands on so it could be resold for market analysis.

If you use any form of electronic identification, they know what products you buy at which stores and at which time. This then is used to profile people so that companies like bulk mailers can target the wealthy, or the poor, or fertile women or whatever slice of the population you want to direct advertisements at.

*) They would actually send telephone books out of country so they could be hand transcribed by low rent data entry clerks. This was before OCR was reliable and telephone companies were willing to share their data electronically.

Re:SLightly confusing summary (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251897)

MasterCard already has access to personal data from the card issuing side (they can know everything your bank knows about you, which is considerably more than what a merchant might know). The issue here is that PayPal is acting as a screen so MasterCard/Visa cannot be sure of the nature of the downstream merchant (this is the data they are not getting from PayPal). This has monetary consequences for MasterCard because some of their fee structures [mastercard.com] differ by industry, but more significantly they track chargeback and loss rates by merchant industry. I think this is less about monetizing purchasing data (though there is certainly an element of that) and more about scaling their fee structure to known loss paterns.

Re:SLightly confusing summary (3, Insightful)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252793)

I think this is less about monetizing purchasing data (though there is certainly an element of that) and more about scaling their fee structure to known loss paterns.

If that were the case, they could scale the PayPal fee structure according to the aggregate PayPall loss rate.

Nope. Looks to me like it's about profit from monitizing the customer data and trying to replace that revenue stream because they were unable to get the data from the PayPall transactions.

This woudl be ok, but... (1)

gurps_npc (621217) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251467)

I would be fine with this except Visa and MasterCard are already acknowledged as a single Monopoly (see old American Express court battles). The fact that they will follow each.

The real question is not if Visa will follow Mastercard, but will American Express (the number 3 card) will follow Mastercard.

Re:This woudl be ok, but... (1)

nospam007 (722110) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251517)

"I would be fine with this except Visa and MasterCard are already acknowledged as a single Monopoly (see old American Express court battles). The fact that they will follow each. "

I guess, since PayPal is a bank registered in the EU, we will see a PayPal Credit Card Real Soon Now.

Re:This woudl be ok, but... (1)

cmdrbuzz (681767) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252033)

PayPal have already tried the credit card thing, not that popular it seems.

That and they'd have to set up their own payment network to avoid MasterCard and VISA, or convince AMEX to carry them...

Re:This woudl be ok, but... (4, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251871)

I would be fine with this except Visa and MasterCard are already acknowledged as a single Monopoly

And heaven forbid that the we regulate any monopoly or finance company in a meaningful way. Thanks to one of the most absurd SCOTUS decisions ever, they can charge interest rates that would embarrass Louie the Loanshark. Even worse may be the transaction fees, which even without the "special rates" for PayPal, etc. are something like 3%. Ask anybody with a small business that has to take CC's to stay in business, and see what they think of it. In organized crimes cases this is called skimming, but apparently it's ok if you're incorporated. In Australia the fees are regulated to 0.5%, and the credit card companies still do just fine down under.

Credit cards have ruined the value of money. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251469)

Saving up to buy a nice widget used to mean something, now everyone just buys junk after junk with no planning, all while accruing enormous debt. This house of cards is just waiting for the right wind to knock it all down.

Quite frankly we deserve it.

Re:Credit cards have ruined the value of money. (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251537)

"Saving up to buy a nice widget used to mean something, now everyone just buys junk after junk with no planning, all while accruing enormous debt."

Speak for yourself and your own generation there, skippy.

Re:Credit cards have ruined the value of money. (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251729)

Speaking as an official old fart, I've known people of every generation who were irresponsible with credit.

Re:Credit cards have ruined the value of money. (1)

poity (465672) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251727)

Who's 'we'? Certainly not the people who pay their bills on time.

Re:Credit cards have ruined the value of money. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43251919)

Saving up to buy a nice widget used to mean something, now everyone just buys junk after junk with no planning, all while accruing enormous debt. This house of cards is just waiting for the right wind to knock it all down.

Bullshit. I and most people I know pay their credit cards in full every month. You're just assuming everyone else is as foolish as you are. We aren't.

Crap ... (3, Interesting)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251493)

So the company I won't do business with because I don't trust them is being sued by the companies I'm stuck with because the ones I won't do business with won't share enough of our data with them?

So, we're fucked then -- the megacorps have utterly won the privacy and financial data battle, the advertisers know everything you do because of it, Google and everybody else reads your email, and the government can collate the whole damned thing if they declare they Need To.

Dammit, the tinfoil isn't working any more. :-P

Re:Crap ... (3, Insightful)

EmagGeek (574360) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251519)

Just pay cash for stuff.

Re:Crap ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252369)

If you still are allowed to do so. France and Italy limot cash transactions to 500€ by law.

Re:Crap ... (1)

KeithJM (1024071) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252095)

If I read your post correctly, you should be fine. You're saying you don't do business with Paypal. Then why should you care if Paypal is charged higher fees? I also didn't see anything in the article about anyone suing anyone (though I wouldn't rule that out).

People STILL use CCs with PP? (1)

AnalogDiehard (199128) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251567)

Providing a CC account to PP is a recipe for CC theft which happened to me one time too many. When I signed up for PP, the system demanded a CC for overdraft so I provided a CC that I was going to close shortly. I never needed ANY overdraft because the PP account was tied to a bank savings account soley used for PP transactions and I simply moved $$$ between banks when I wanted to make a transaction. The bank account has no overdraft and has zero connection to the bank where my payroll check is direct deposited. When PP nagged me about the CC expiration approaching, I ignored it. That was over three years ago and I'm still using PP.

You don't need a CC to use PP.

Re:People STILL use CCs with PP? (4, Insightful)

XanC (644172) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251823)

Your solution to your credit card number being vulnerable to theft is to give away your bank account number instead? Brilliant!

Re:People STILL use CCs with PP? (3, Informative)

roc97007 (608802) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251953)

I think he's saying that he maintains two bank accounts, the one in which his paycheck gets deposited, and a separate, unconnected bank account he uses specifically for paypal. It's actually a pretty good strategy.

Re:People STILL use CCs with PP? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252045)

You weren't paying attention. The bank account Paypal has on file has nothing in it until he puts money in it for a specific transaction. It's a hassle but it means there's nothing to steal.

Re:People STILL use CCs with PP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252363)

He said it's a secondary bank account solely for sending money to PayPal, so he should be fine. Still, it's a massive overkill.

Re:People STILL use CCs with PP? (1)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | about a year and a half ago | (#43252857)

He said it's a secondary bank account solely for sending money to PayPal, so he should be fine. Still, it's a massive overkill.

It's not overkill. It's just an especially thick firewall. It's close to the "air gap" level of unplugging the computer from all communication with the outside world (though it does have the connections of common ownership of the accounts and the record of transfers.)

Maxim 37: There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload".

Re:People STILL use CCs with PP? (1)

wbr1 (2538558) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251911)

The fees will cause PP to raise fees across the board, as an excuse they may say its easier accounting. It wont matter whether the original source of the money is a CC, connected bank acct, or a wire transfer to PP from Nigeria. Ergo, it wont matter if your CC is connected or not.

what if you don't use mastercard? (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about a year and a half ago | (#43251929)

I'm not exactly sure how all this works, but when I buy stuff from paypal, I deposit directly from my credit union into the paypal account and then pay from there. To my knowledge, MC and Visa aren't involved at all. Unless there's something I'm not understanding?

Moreover, there's a way to use your bank's billpay feature to put money directly in your paypal account. Neither of these strategies appear to involve MC/Visa. Mind you, either of these strategies take time for the transfer, so you have to plan out your purchases, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Re:what if you don't use mastercard? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252403)

Indeed, there are systems like iDeal that'll make a link between your bank and PayPal bypassing any credit cards.
Check out https://www.money2.nl/ [money2.nl]
(Yes it's in Dutch but there's translate.google.com)

--
Teun

Wanna Bet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252025)

PayPal has a customer list of its own and is large enough to perhaps issue their own credit cards. To keep it sane the card might be limited to Ebay purchases only. In other words Master card might be beaten over the head even more because they took this posture.

hmmmmm (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43252205)

Holla for a dwolla? [dwolla.com] Always good to help a local Iowan out.

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