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Will Donglegate Affect Your Decision To Attend PyCon?

timothy posted about a year ago | from the channel-the-monkey-with-the-covered-mouth dept.

Programming 759

theodp writes "Its Code of Conduct describes PyCon as 'a welcoming, friendly event for all.' But will the post-conference fallout from this year's 'Donglegate' debacle and proposed remedies affect your decision — one way or the other — to attend next year's PyCon in ironically naughty Montreal? And even if not, could 'Donglegate' influence the-powers-that-be whose approval you'll need to attend? How about conference sponsors?"

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What the hell (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256583)

is Donglegate?

Re:What the hell (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256631)

A Donglegate is a novel biological gate revealed to the geeks from beyond the forbidden effeminate walls of feminism. This is a new mystery to geeks. They commented and were punished by god for eating the forbidden fruit. Along with the geek some others in the story were punished as well.

Re:What the hell (-1, Redundant)

owenferguson (521762) | about a year ago | (#43256645)

PLEASE vote parent up.

Re:What the hell (2, Informative)

BLKMGK (34057) | about a year ago | (#43256675)

Or you know - click on the provided links?

Re:What the hell (1, Insightful)

Elbereth (58257) | about a year ago | (#43257011)

We shouldn't have to click on the links, just to understand what the summary is about.

"Will donglegate affect your decision to attend pycon?"
vs
"Will the controversy over alleged sexism affect your decision to attend pycon?"

Re:What the hell (-1, Offtopic)

lucm (889690) | about a year ago | (#43257035)

Why bother to read about things we don't know when instead one can rely on the mods system to promote the bliss of ignorance?

Re:What the hell (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256889)

PLEASE vote parent up.

I think the proper reply in this context would be "Please erect the parent".

Re:What the hell (2, Insightful)

Cenan (1892902) | about a year ago | (#43256681)

My thoughts too. What the fuck is submitter talking about? And more importantly, why should I care? This sounds like the local news, blowing some turned over trafic sign way out of proportion cause they have 30 mins on prime time to fill and 1 story to run. And like posted below, stop the goddamn *gate shit already, it was appropriate exactly once in history.

Re:What the hell (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256825)

My thoughts too. What the fuck is submitter talking about?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=donglegate [lmgtfy.com]

Basically, a nosy bitch at a tech conference overheard two guys make a "dongle" joke (and possibly a "forking" joke), and instead of acting like an adult and ignoring them or asking them to stop, or even complaining privately to the conference organizers, she took their picture, and tweeted it to the world.

Guys were kicked out, one was fired from his job. Upon hearing this, certain parts of the Interwebs that shall remain nameless (okay, it was 4chan) started DDOSing her site and the site of her employer. She ended up being fired herself.

Sheesh.

Re:What the hell (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256887)

a nosy bitch

lol, sexism. I thought information wanted to be free?

She might have tweeted it to the world. If no-one thought it was a big deal, they would have ignored it, and nothing whatsoever would have come from it.

Re:What the hell (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43257029)

a nosy bitch

lol, sexism. I thought information wanted to be free?

Not sexism at all. She was listening to a conversation that had nothing to do with her, hence "nosy". And her reaction to it clearly proves her to indeed be a "bitch".

Re:What the hell (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256789)

Some bollocks where a couple of guys made a bad joke and because INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE EXCEPT WHEN I'LL GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT got all pissy that another person republished the joke.

Anyway tyhe moral of the story is that actions have consequences, and that if you speak out loud, people may react to it. Then people will react to those reactions. And you can't really predict exactly what all those reactions are going to be, but one thing is certain: you are responsible for your own speech.

Also I'm going to use "Will Donglegate" as my name when "registering" software from now on.

Re:What the hell (5, Insightful)

kd4zqe (587495) | about a year ago | (#43256929)

Basically, this feminist can't take a joke... Her tweet [arstechnica.net]

She gets the guy fired, and gets fired herself for her troubles.

Nobody wins, because feminism is in of itself, sexism at it's finest. Poor pitiful females that can't defend themselves. Bullshit. They have carved themselves a niche in popular culture that they are untouchable, and because of that they have adopted and invincible attitude, until they feel they have been somehow wronged, and then they turn on the tear-jerking water works about how defenseless they are. Comedian Bill Burr has it right... [youtube.com]

People need to learn how to take a joke. HR departments need to be wiped out, because in this age, they have long since outlived their usefulness. They had their time, but it has since passed.

If women want equal rights, then there should be no feminists.

Re:What the hell (0)

c0lo (1497653) | about a year ago | (#43257051)

What the hell is PyCon and why it dangles?

Donglegate? Really? (4, Insightful)

Pikoro (844299) | about a year ago | (#43256587)

Will you idiots stop with this "topic-gate" crap already? A feminist didn't like the jokes that a couple of guys were making. They got fired. Then she got fired for rocking the boar. Case closed.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (1, Funny)

Pikoro (844299) | about a year ago | (#43256593)

s/boar/boat/;

Re:Donglegate? Really? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256857)

s/boar/boat/;

s/boat/dongle

Re:Donglegate? Really? (5, Funny)

newcastlejon (1483695) | about a year ago | (#43256943)

s/Submit/Preview/;

Re:Donglegate? Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256625)

Rocking the boar: sounds like some sort of porcine fashion statement :)

Re:Donglegate? Really? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256651)

"Rocking the boar" sounds more interesting than any other part of this story.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256697)

Germaine Greer don't like it
Rock the cis-boar
Rock the cis-boar

Re:Donglegate? Really? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256695)

No. She got fired because of employee misconduct. She tried to make this poor family man feel ashamed about having a penis. She literally took food off the table of 3 children. All because she faux outraged that "dongle" sounds like "dong" and "fork" sounds like "fuck".

I'm so fucking glad she got fired. I hope she gets fired from life. People and their fake outrage can die in a fire, or a Walmart trampling.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (4, Insightful)

beanyk (230597) | about a year ago | (#43256783)

She literally took food off the table of 3 children.

Le sigh.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (1)

mnajem (2874111) | about a year ago | (#43256797)

she ever thought about that? women usually just tell whatever they got

Re:Donglegate? Really? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256881)

Womens' pussies often stink. It's a smell unlike any other, unless they're nasty and their intimate smell is like armpit. I would make an overreaching effort to wear makeup and be pretty too, if I had such a smelly, messy, and unsightly organ.

But dayum, in spite of the pussy's flaws, I just can't stop fuckin' wit' it.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:Donglegate? Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256915)

She literally took food off the table of 3 children.

Le sigh.

Well, at least we know now that she committed trespassing and theft.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (-1, Troll)

Yetihehe (971185) | about a year ago | (#43256973)

I'm so fucking glad she got fired. I hope she gets fired from life. People and their fake outrage can die in a fire, or a Walmart trampling.

Too many people overreacted on this one. You did too. Congratulations.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256707)

Also, what's with the code of conduct? I don't mean the content... it's a Saturday, so I'm being shallow... the so-called short version is about the same length as the long version.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (4, Insightful)

Zapotek (1032314) | about a year ago | (#43256711)

I don't know, I found the title funny -- which was probably the editor's intention in the first place. And she wasn't a feminist, that word has a real meaning that I'd rather we didn't dilute; she was a prissy, attention whoring, holier-than-thou, PC bitch.

And to answer the article's question: If I were a Python dev, I wouldn't attend. That would send a more clear message to everyone involved that those situations are ridiculous than a bunch of posts on random message boards.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (4, Insightful)

FuzzNugget (2840687) | about a year ago | (#43256837)

And she wasn't a feminist

The term you're looking for is "feminazi"

Re:Donglegate? Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256917)

"I don't know, I found the title funny -- which was probably the editor's intention in the first place. And she wasn't a feminist, that word has a real meaning that I'd rather we didn't dilute; she was a prissy, attention whoring, holier-than-thou, PC bitch. "

In other words... she is a feminist.

She used the exact same tactics that feminists have always used. It backfired on her because due to widespread social media these days men are finally realising that it's the same cynical power game played time and time again by feminism and women.

Organisations tend to accommodate feminists because they play the victim and stir up publicity. We need to make sure that these organisations can't take the easy way out by letting them blame a man and get him fired. We need to make them understand that their lives will a lot more difficult if they continue to pander to this sort of bullshit.

It's not diluting feminism.. it's exposing it for what it has always been: bullshit, victimology and letting women use their massive societal privilege to ruin innocent men's lives.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256949)

If I were a Python dev, I wouldn't attend. That would send a more clear message to everyone involved that those situations are ridiculous than a bunch of posts on random message boards.

Why punish the Pycon organizers because of the actions of one radical feminist? She freaked out over a single dongle comment that was made by one person in the crowd. The Pycon staff dealt with the situation appropriately and it only escalated because of radical feminists on Twitter and the backlash from /b/. She even compared herself to Joan D'Arc and said that "the future of programming was on the line" all because one person in the crowd made a single dongle joke while he was talking to his male friend. She wasn't even involved in the fucking conversation and doesn't even know what forking a repo actually means.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (1)

Improv (2467) | about a year ago | (#43256719)

It'd be best to avoid phrasing this in a way that suggests that any other feminist would be the same; feminism is a very diverse movement, and there are flavours (like mine) that are very anti-PC-policing.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256985)

That's not feminism. Feminism, the one you encounter in "gender studies" or whatever you want to call them are a single obnoxious, ridiculous type, which goes around demanding special treatment and blaming men for everything they don't like, including how people look at them, and everything is rape. That is the common, modern Feminist. And the rest of the ones who are a bit less crazy not only do not call these idiot women on their public and academic behaviour, but also sit quietly in the back and reap the benefit that the shock trooper Feminists achieve for women in prejudice of men. Nor they see issues when they see posters about domestic violence but is always conextualized as it coming from males.

Diverse movement my ass. If it were you would not have tolerated the crazy idiots that define the word at the moment.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (5, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about a year ago | (#43256753)

It's a significant and relevant story.

We know about race hustlers... people who like to twist any situation into a racist (against blacks) for their fame and profit. It's old news.

But we don't hear much about the more quiet problem... especially in the work place. The one quite a few of us in this demographic have suffered.

There are women out there who are equally prepared to play the sexism-card when it serves their interests. In this case, this woman is a pretty good example. People have been digging up her internet content everywhere exposing what she is and does. On one hand she has a clear history of sex related things. If she was so offended by sex related things, she has a weird way of showing it. So it wasn't the sex related things that bothered her. I have little doubt that she was harmed or offended by what she thought she heard.

She may have been annoyed by the cut-ups going on behind her. That's understandable. But instead of addressing the real problem, she made up a worse one. She created this drama. She got what she expected... at first. But then the community unexpectedly returned fire. Her employer couldn't afford to have her any longer. B'Bye bitch.

This is the unspoken reason there may be reservations about women in the workplace and especially in the tech fields. We're a BUNCH of immature geeks who care less about social crap and more about technical crap. When women enter the room, we're immediately terrified that our haven is being changed leaving us nowhere to go. The unspoken fear is that we know what women can and will bring. She is a perfect example of it. Once again, her self-documented history of sexy-flirty crap spins around in an instant to "I'm offended by this double entendre!!" And of course, everyone who seeks not to be branded "a part of the problem" is forced into doing whatever pleases her.

Nice play. For once it didn't work out quite as she expected. I wonder what she will advocate next? This geek crowd she offended? They are anonymous. They don't forget. They don't forgive. And she represents every woman in the workplace who has ever played that game. And I sincerely hope her hell will give other women cause to give a second thought about playing the sexism card like this.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (5, Informative)

emj (15659) | about a year ago | (#43256867)

Nice play. For once it didn't work out quite as she expected

Actually I think she knew exactly what would happen, the same thing as always, people rape threatning her and calling her all kind of things. Amanda Blum's excelent blog post [wordpress.com] highlights the problem with Adrias behaviour but hopefully give you some insight to the larger problem.

If this has thought us something it is that there are some serious problem with sexism at tech conferences, even if you don't like what she did the backlash kind of proved her point IMHO.

Mod Parent Up. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256935)

His post is significant and should be read through twice, as it is heartfelt (not a troll) and seems to represent a lot of thinking here.

Although it is really sad:

This is the unspoken reason there may be reservations about women in the workplace and especially in the tech fields. We're a BUNCH of immature geeks who care less about social crap and more about technical crap. When women enter the room, we're immediately terrified that our haven is being changed leaving us nowhere to go. The unspoken fear is that we know what women can and will bring.

Dude, you're saying is that you are a loser with no social skills. But that that's OK because there are plenty of others just like you and you'll all engage in this bullying of women who venture into a tech field without knowing their proper place, which is to be quiet and submissive, ignore the bad behavior and don't try to advance in your career.

This geek crowd she offended? They are anonymous. They don't forget. They don't forgive. And she represents every woman in the workplace who has ever played that game.

That's exactly what black people had to deal with during the Jim Crow era of this country, and are still dealing with in some parts of the rural South. Be happy you haven't been chased out of here and shut up. Congratulations, you just revealed that in another place and time you would have been part of the oppressive majority.

Re:Donglegate? Really? (5, Funny)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#43257045)

Then she got fired for rocking the boar.

Dude, what the hell goes on at PyCon?!

No dongles and connectors! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256597)

No. I will leave all the dongles and connectors at home. Oh wait, I can't ... This is confusing. This is why we exclude girls from our tree computer club! Damn.

Re:No dongles and connectors! (5, Insightful)

Ironhandx (1762146) | about a year ago | (#43256821)

"One of these men lost his job as a result of this incident, and we are seeing numerous people blame Adria for that. This is a clear example of a culture we live in, where it is more appropriate to blame the victim than to blame any other offenders."

What the everliving fuck?

She wasn't a "victim" of anything. These guys didn't rape her. They didn't assault her. They didn't slander her, they didn't harass her they didn't DO anything to her. They told a joke meant for each other and happened to be within earshot of her. That was the reason she got fired. She's claiming to be some sort of victim and framing all women as victims of "this sort of behavior" and its just bullshit. You do not have a right to not be offended. As long as that person isn't directly talking about you, thats where your rights end.

Now if they had said "I bet this chick in front of us here would love it if the presenters had bigger dongles" or something of that nature, she'd have a bit of a case here as that could very easily be considered harassment.

Donglegate? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256601)

Someone is trying desperately to make this into something bigger than it is.

I never went, and I never will, and I have no nice job to be unfortunately fired from, but even if that weren't the case, I wouldn't let it affect my decision. It's an unlikely thing to happen, and the simple fact is that shit happens. You'll miss a lot of good things in life if you're never willing to take even the slightest risk.

Re:Donglegate? (4, Insightful)

nametaken (610866) | about a year ago | (#43256897)

Someone is trying desperately to make this into something bigger than it is.

Absolutely this. Those guys told a tame (even boring) joke in the wrong place, she immediately went nutso-nuclear. One of the guys lost his job and so did she.

Case closed.

Aside from those two, there's no good reason anyone should avoid PyCon, and we all know it. If you can act like a normal adult, it's unlikely you'll have any problems with anyone.

Put simply; yes (4, Insightful)

bazmail (764941) | about a year ago | (#43256609)

It will also put me off talking freely and in an unguarded manner in front of female attendees at any conference. Who knows which one will want to be the next twitterverse celeb getting notoriety by making a big thing out of nothing. That victimhood addict who reported those 2 guys for "inappropriate" comments went on to make very inappropriate comments herself about those guys (search for her TSA socks stuffing comments).

She is a hypocrite troublemaker who is creating divisions in the dev community along gender lines for no good reason only her own need to validate herself out of victimhood. Next time a woman mentions at work how far along she in in her pregnancy, can she be reported for inappropriate comments?Because this is where this is all going.

Re:Put simply; yes (5, Insightful)

Baron_Yam (643147) | about a year ago | (#43256673)

If you try to strike this woman down, every woman with a militant feminist agenda will stand up and scream 'patriarchy!'.

The best you can hope for is that ignoring her leads to the problem going away - because keeping her in the limelight is almost certainly going to result in people creating policies to 'protect' everyone, and the reasonable voices will be drowned out, partially because they don't make as good news copy and partially because the reasonable people generally have something other than 'advocacy' to engage in, and are busy with it.

Re:Put simply; yes (5, Insightful)

bazmail (764941) | about a year ago | (#43256761)

I'm not trying to "strike her down" and make her into some feminist Obi Wan. I'm simply learning how the game works nowadays. If I'm hanging out with some of my colleagues during conference breaks and chatting, and a female attendee walks in, my job and my 2 kids college fund/food supply/roof depends on me immediately maintaining a silence and uttering "Yes m'am" or "No ma'm" if and when appropriate, and that is all. There will be no conversation, exchanging views on squat, smiling etc. Its just gotten too dangerous to talk freely now.

Re:Put simply; yes (3, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43256907)

If you try to strike this woman down, every woman with a militant feminist agenda will stand up and scream 'patriarchy!'. The best you can hope for is that ignoring her leads to the problem going away

Oh right, I'm supposed to just lay back and enjoy it? That's pure fucking bullshit, son. Every woman with a militant feminist agenda will stand up and scream patriarchy whether I hug a fluffy kitten or enjoy my morning constitutional or stay home and eat cheetos. Why should I not stand up for what I believe in?

I understand fully that there are those who stand up and say "See, look at this evil evil woman, she proves that women are evil" and I sure don't want to be conflated with them, but I'm conflated with them if I do anything other than parrot a party line, and even then some women will describe me as a rapist even though I haven't and won't ever because I find the very idea abhorrent in every way simply because I am a tripod. These women are very much in the minority, and that is the point. I'm not going to censor myself because they're loud, and suggesting that anyone should is pathetic at best.

Re:Put simply; yes (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256727)

It will also put me off talking freely and in an unguarded manner in front of female attendees at any conference.

Which will make these women notice the subconscious cues that they are unwanted and unwelcome because of what Adria Richards did, leading to a drop in women attendees, which people like Adria Richards will then blame on the overbearing masculinity of the leadership until the leaders are expelled for their non-existent problem with women so that people loyal to Adria Richards can take over the group. The fake feminists did the exact same thing to the atheist community. [dreamwidth.org]

Are you an idiot or a foreveralone loser? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256747)

The way you act in public represents not only yourself but your company. If you're not mature enough to keep your dumb and offensive comments to yourself, then you're no different than an internet troll.

You have all the freedom of speech in the world in America but that doesn't stop you from others judging you as an idiot. The lady isn't a troublemaker; rather, she's bringing your outdated industry's chauvinistic attitudes to the 21st century. Seriously, other companies and industries have already figured this out, why are tech "bros" like yourself so stupid to learn this?

If you're terrified at communicating with a woman, then learn to treat them like a human being instead of a lesser gender.

-a man.

Re:Are you an idiot or a foreveralone loser? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256865)

kill yourself

Re:Are you an idiot or a foreveralone loser? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256983)

The way you act in public represents not only yourself but your company....

You have all the freedom of speech in the world in America but that doesn't stop you from others judging you as an idiot....

Unsurprisingly, you appear to think that Ms. Richards should be excempt from these principles since "she's bringing your outdated industry's chauvenistic attitudes to the 21st century."

Wrong. The ends do no justify the means. She needs to bring her self-aggrandizing militancy into the 21st century as well (e.g., "Black people CANNOT be racist against White people." [hardforum.com] ).

She's equally elibigle for adjuged idiocy. Sorry to rain on your "troublemaker" victimhood pity party.

Re:Put simply; yes (3, Insightful)

BLKMGK (34057) | about a year ago | (#43256799)

THIS. I don't attend this conference but if I did I certainly wouldn't next year for fear that it would be invaded by others looking to make a splash just as she did. In fact the conferences that I DO attend are going to feel more hostile and I'm not sure I like that either. I'm not in the habit of making off color jokes generally but worrying that someone for whatever reason is going to decide to make an issue out of something and post pictures all over the place for their moment in the sun just sux. This woman was a drama queen but her erratic behavior is going to now have to be taken into account at other conferences too. If this woman thought she was advancing things she was sorely mistaken - she's done just the opposite. I wonder - would this have gotten nearly the attention had the gender roles been reversed? Had she commented on their small penis size, lack of stature, looks, affinity for anal sex with other men, whatever, would this have made so much as a blip? Would they have simply laughed it off or ignored her? How about had she been saying this quietly to another woman next to her? No one would be supportive of them taking such actions against her, no one would be screaming for ribbons.... Actually I think that guy's idea for ribbons is awesome and that every conference should do it. That way I'll know who to stay away from and just maybe by lack of uptake they would get a clue as to what folks thought of this commotion.

I hope like hell that anyone Googling for her former company or her name name comes across this incident and takes it into account before making any decisions. I hope that anyone considering going to work for the company that fired the conference attendee comes across this as well!

Re:Put simply; yes (4, Interesting)

Rogerborg (306625) | about a year ago | (#43256807)

hypocrite troublemaker who is creating divisions in the dev community along gender lines for no good reason only her own need to validate herself out of victimhood

Bit strong, but not too far from Amanda Blums's experiences with Adria Richards [wordpress.com] .

Re:Put simply; yes (1)

mnajem (2874111) | about a year ago | (#43256809)

it might stops me talking to them or near them. best bet, avoid them during the conference... your joke might not be able to be comprehend and got your job at stake!

Re:Put simply; yes (1)

bobbutts (927504) | about a year ago | (#43256879)

If you speak in the same broken English as you type with I'd predict frequent problems with people comprehending you.

Re:Put simply; yes (2)

anarxia (651289) | about a year ago | (#43256957)

His broken English actually reinforce his point.

Re:Put simply; yes (1, Insightful)

bobbutts (927504) | about a year ago | (#43256847)

How about just make your "free" conversation in public devoid of constant dick jokes? You can't expect to bring the same humor you use when chatting with your [2013 Everquest equivalent] clan from Mom's basement to the public without some kind of debacle.

Re:Put simply; yes (3, Insightful)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#43256981)

How about just make your "free" conversation in public devoid of constant dick jokes?

The people in question weren't making "constant dick jokes", they made only one, and indirect at that.

Re:Put simply; yes (2, Insightful)

Concerned Onlooker (473481) | about a year ago | (#43256905)

"It will also put me off talking freely and in an unguarded manner in front of female attendees at any conference."

Oh, please. There is nothing quite so pathetic as the lament of someone in the privileged class. This particular story may involve a woman who gamed the system, but if you think women aren't generally discriminated against and made to feel uncomfortable with sexual innuendo then you are not paying attention.

Re:Put simply; yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43257019)

Oh that's right, I missed that item on the Bill of Rights that states people have the right to never be uncomfortable or hear things they disagree with. The unnecessary stifling of other freedoms was exactly what our early feminist fighters wanted.

Save the pandering for real issues, wasting them on topics such as this hurts all those legitimately discriminated against.

Imagine a world where... (5, Insightful)

Baron_Yam (643147) | about a year ago | (#43256627)

Pycon put out a statement that it was regrettable somebody was oversensitive and overreacted to something mildly offensive.

That under these particular circumstances it might have been best if the offended party had expressed the fact that she was offended directly to those offending her (as they were not the least bit threatening) or perhaps escalated it to Pycon security.

That Adria Richards was banned from all future events for violating Pycon privacy policies and making a hostile environment for all attendees, and the developers banned for a year for their part.

Imagine a world where Pycon did that, and stated that there would be no changes in policy as a result of the 'donglegate' effect, because no Pycon policy was an issue in the events as they unfolded.

Re:Imagine a world where... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256663)

and the developers banned for a year for their part.

In that world, I would certainly decide not to attend Pycon.

Re:Imagine a world where... (0)

publiclurker (952615) | about a year ago | (#43256741)

And nothing of value would be lost.

Re:Imagine a world where... (1)

BLKMGK (34057) | about a year ago | (#43256817)

Wow, what a refreshing breath that would be. I'm not sure about the attendees being banned but yeah maybe that would be warranted too in such a world. People cannot feel free to say anything they want, there has to be some ramifications sometimes. I think you hit the nail on the head here as to how this should've been handled....

Re:Imagine a world where... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256967)

That's a great idea! I hope they handle it like that...

Oh for the love of... (1)

John Pfeiffer (454131) | about a year ago | (#43256637)

DONGLEGATE?! Really?! I thought I made that up, as a joke! People are actually calling it that? Oh man, haha...

No (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256649)

The reason being is that ignorant twat of a childish woman won't show her face there again after all the shit she caused.
What was a simple joke between friends about big dongles exploded in to some sexist accusations and death threats.
I cannot believe she even tried to pull the sexist bullshit. Come on now, way to damage your own cause you moron.
The way she talked about how she was protecting the future of programming and saving the day absolutely disgusted me. I hope this follows her for the rest of her life for being such an obnoxious twat.
She could have easily just turned around and said "hey guys want to keep it down with the jokes?" and be done with it. No, she turned a private matter in to full-blown public matter. Absolutely terrible.

But PyCon had nothing to do with it. They just dealt with their own regulations fairly.
The persons who never and equally broke the rules was her by taking pictures of people that led to harassment, and them by one lewd joke.

Re:No (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256731)

The reason being is that ignorant twat

AC # 43256649 was then reassigned to gender re-education encampment #67, funded by the Protect America's Women Act of 2014.

Nope (5, Informative)

CrankyFool (680025) | about a year ago | (#43256657)

At least part of the reason I go to Pycon is for recruiting; that means that I wear a company-branded t-shirt, and -- obviously -- my name tag has my company's name on it. I expect that I should always behave in a way that is consistent with representing my company well, and part of that means keeping my conduct strictly professional.

I don't see anything here that makes Pycon less useful, or interesting, or relevant to me, nor do I see any action on the part of the Pycon folks that I disagree with. And, having just talked with my management last night about Donglegate, I know they feel the same.

Now, Pycon being in Montreal is a different matter -- I don't really want to cross borders for Pycon.

Re:Nope (0, Troll)

bazmail (764941) | about a year ago | (#43256725)

Then rather than being too self-absorbed with with your own attendance/non-attendance, you should be more concerned about the numbers and quality of developers that are being [scared off/pissed off] from attending through fear of being made into the next internet monster by politically correct "behavior normalization" nazis.

Re:Nope (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43256927)

Then rather than being too self-absorbed with with your own attendance/non-attendance, you should be more concerned about the numbers and quality of developers that are being [scared off/pissed off] from attending through fear of being made into the next internet monster by politically correct "behavior normalization" nazis.

Why should they worry about that? That is a constant threat no matter where you go. You might as well just stay home.

You don't talk in a theatre (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256665)

And you don't make loud penis jokes at a conference. It's that simple. And if you get fired for a similar triviality, it's for the better they didn't deserve you anyway.

Re:You don't talk in a theatre (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43257003)

And you don't make loud penis jokes at a conference.

Now, wait a minute, sis... when referring to a penis, a man doesn't use dongle but... dangle. The men proud of their member will use Dick to refer to it, and prick to refer to the member of other's. Penis is when you present it to a doctor for medical reasons and, in that case, I guarantee it will dangle.

A distinction unclear by the rules (4, Insightful)

Improv (2467) | about a year ago | (#43256669)

Calling someone something they don't like, to their face and particularly with malicious intent, might be inappropriate but it is not harassment per se. Doing so after being asked to stop (refusing to stop if there is no malicious intent does not constitute malice) probably is harassment.

A joke that somebody doesn't like, particularly if it's not told *to* them, shouldn't be considered harassment and we should be wary of attempts to ban salty jokes.

Re:A distinction unclear by the rules (1)

Improv (2467) | about a year ago | (#43256689)

The bits in parentheses above are meant to clarify how to handle situations like complaints from someone who prefers being referred to by weird extra pronouns if people don't agree to do that. Or therians. Or "transsexuals". Or any other group that makes demands of the conceptual frameworks of others beyond "no malice".

Re:A distinction unclear by the rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256903)

There is a difference between jokes somebody does not like and "jokes" that try to reduce human beings to white meat.

For a simple joke it does not matter if anyone hears them or not and they are no big issue.

But things like juicy 'jokes', 'witty' comments to reduce women (anyone actually, but usually women are the target) to sexual objects, exposing people to pornography (without their consent of course) or stuff like that are considered sexual haressment in most civilized countries and there are laws to protect people from them. (People doing this may be fired even in countries where firing people is hard, if your employer cannot stop your co-workers from doing so, you can stay at home while your employer has still to pay you your salary. Universities are required to stop students doing so or throw them out. And so on and so forth).

I've been right all along (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256687)

My decision, made many years ago, to remain a reclusive hermit who shuns contact with other human beings and only leaves his domicile to work and fetch food, is clearly shown to be correct by incidents such as this one. (It has, however, had the sad effect of making me communicate almost entirely in run-on sentences on internet web boards.)

Doesn't effect my view on it one jot (2)

Rogerborg (306625) | about a year ago | (#43256693)

In as much as I view it as a self indulgent echo chamber where converts congratulate themselves on choosing the one true religion.

Python is just one tool in the box - sorry, one implement in the storage vessel. All single-language conference attendees really need to get over themselves.

Re:Doesn't effect my view on it one jot (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#43256947)

Python is just one tool in the box - sorry, one implement in the storage vessel.

I'd like to put my implement in— well, you know the rest.

The truth is that anything can be dirty. To me that means at least two things. One, if you're in public, be as euphemistic as possible, it might help. Two, if you're offended by things people say, and you're not a captive audience, go listen to someone else and then you won't be offended. Spin on!

Yes -- B&B networking? (2)

michaelmalak (91262) | about a year ago | (#43256701)

I might have been interested in attending PyCon to learn more about Python and to network, but rather than being "offended at sexist remarks", I take the B&B comments as indication of the caliber of people I might have met at a PyCon. It may not be true, but that's the perception I have now, and I'm now more likely to attend data analytics or HPC conferences where Python happens to be discussed.

Re:Yes -- B&B networking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256811)

Yeah, I'm sure no one ever made a dick joke between themselves at any of those conferences.

Re:Yes -- B&B networking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256991)

One person quietly making a dongle joke to his male friend is clearly indicative of the terrible people that you're sure to meet at Pycon. Are you normally this retarded or are you trying extra hard today?

Re:Yes -- B&B networking? (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#43257031)

Just because you don't see things happening doesn't mean they're not happening.

If you have to check the room before you speak (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256703)

Don't!

Alternatively, pay attention to the real speaker - just kidding.

The internet just makes it easier to share our outrage. Sometimes good, sometimes bad and sometimes unnecessary.

Also, can we just start calling this 'c*ck-gate', then we can have a 'c*ck-gate-gate' ...

Doesn't change much ... (1)

MacTO (1161105) | about a year ago | (#43256721)

It doesn't change much for me since I already avoid events that are dominated by men or women. For some reason, behavioural expectations tend to be ignored in those situations.

Donglegate? Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256735)

Calling any situation *-gate would be appropriate only if Watergate had been about water.

Call out idiocy whenever you see it. It's gotten a pass from far too many people, far too many times.

The event organizers should make this a tradition (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256743)

Every year, two attendees will be randomly drawn to be fired from their jobs.

"Sorry you didn't win one of the iPads, but second place is you're fired!" (after Alec Baldwin in the movie "Glengarry Glen Ross").

After all, people came to the event expecting something completely different.

Nope (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256791)

I don't see any point in attending Pycon. It's a development language that i may or may not choose to use, depending on the application. I see zero value in attending a convention about it. Would you attend a C language convention?

But, that doesn't mean that the past two incidents haven't tainted my opinion of Pycon. I have found the "outrage" and the reaction to the "offended" rather polarizing. Whereas I was previously completely indifferent on matters of sexism or sexual harassment, I have now formulated the opinion that Pycon is attended, and more tremblingly operated, by a bunch of prudish, overly politically correct, whiny bitches(regardless of gender). I am reminded of homosexuals and the homosexual movement, constantly grinding their ax and whining about the cruel persecution that they supposedly suffer constantly.

This image is not a favorable one. It does not further their causes, in my mind. It creates an urge in me to directly oppose their views whereas before I was completely indifferent and didn't give it a thought.

I think it would serve Pycon far better to focus on Python, and leave the social and political aspects to someone else entirely. Their attempts at political correctness are to their detriment, in my opinion.

Flame away.

Too many idiotic men (-1, Troll)

bobbutts (927504) | about a year ago | (#43256803)

If I were a women and I turned around to see so many ugly emaciated neck beards I'd probably panic too.

Tempest (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256851)

Talk about a tempest in a teapot! The principals in this kerfuffle should have all gotten a good dope slap, and it should have been left at that! The fact that a couple of people lost their jobs? Their "superiors" should have lost their jobs for going this far!

Chilling effect (4, Insightful)

ilsaloving (1534307) | about a year ago | (#43256863)

is put a chilling effect on developer conferences in general, and put pressure on conference staff to create policies that shouldn't even be necessary.

Talk freely and openly? Not anymore. Oh no! Someone said compile and link in the same sentence! I'm offended! As a female myself, now I have to worry that if I walk up to another developer, their first thought will be, "Oh shit, it's a woman. Gotta scoot!"

Do you have a smart phone? Sorry, you're not allowed to use it anymore because you might be taking photos of other people to post on your twitfaceplus feed in order to disrupt their lives.

This whole thing is a big pile of idiocy, and mindbogglingly poorly handled on ALL sides.

Proposal: Sensitivity Hats (4, Interesting)

Erich (151) | about a year ago | (#43256869)

There seem to be two groups of people here:

The first group of people is not offended by jokes, including jokes influenced by sexuality.

The second group of people is offended by jokes, especially jokes influenced by sexuality. A subset of this group is offended by such jokes when spoken by members of a certain gender. Of course, this is discriminatory so we will ignore that aspect and categorize them as offended in general.

I think there is a desire to be respectful of the second group while avoiding strict censorship of the [majority] first group.

I suggest a clearly visible sign that someone is offended by jokes influenced by sexuality (or, perhaps broadening this to include all jokes?). Perhaps a yellow hat or something like that. People within earshot of such people should refrain from telling such jokes. People wearing the sensitivity marker who hear things offensive to them can raise the issue to convention staff who will attempt to deal with the issue. People wearing the "sensitivity" marker who make such jokes will permanently lose the right to wear them.

People not wearing the sensitivity marker who hear something offensive to them should either (A) indicate to the offensive person directly that their conduct is perhaps inappropriate, or (B) move away from the offensive person so that they are no longer offended. If (A) is ineffective and (B) is ineffective or impossible the convention staff can be notified and they may or may not choose to act; anyone not wearing a sensitivity marker who is upset is free to go put on a sensitivity marker.

People may wish to have activities which may include things that people find offensive, they are free to ban sensitivity markers. Additionally, "sensitivity-marker free zones" or "automatic sensitivity marker" zones could be created. Or even entire conventions where no sensitivity markers are allowed -- one would expect a crude joke convention to probably not cater to overly sensitive people.

Of course, in an ideal world, everyone would be adult enough to know to watch their language a little bit, and to not overreact a lot. But given that certain people are especially sensitive for various reasons, we should find a way to allow them to coexist with the rest of society.

I was at PyCon, so here's my thoughts (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256871)

In 3 Words: No, it wont!

I attended PyCon this year. I thought it was really awesome to see that many women in our field.
I support the mission of the open source community, and not only will I be attending in 2014,
I also plan on speaking at the conference.

For all the women in the open source community, I'd like you to know that most of us guys are
not sexist. We appreciate the contributions that anyone provides regaurdless of sex, race, favorite
sports team or preference to dogs or cats. I'd like more of you to attend PyCon next year.

The 'reaction', 'fallout', and ddos that occurred was a result of idiots hiding behind a glowing rectangle
unfortunately you get the same thing when they hide behind a windshield. Those guys are not a true
reflection of all of us.

This mess was an overreaction by everyone. Lets leave this for what it is:

def bad_decision():
        return bad_decision()

And lets get back to what really matters:
writing open source software and bringing developers together.

and if we cant do that, lets get back to posting pictures of dinner on facebook, and photoshopping pictures of kittens

See you all in 2014!

Re:I was at PyCon, so here's my thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43257021)

Making sex jokes is not sexist. And even if it was it was a private conversation.

No, but it changes my decisions to... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256885)

a) take articles with *gate in the text seriously
b) hire women in IT. They are as much the worst sexists, as blacks are the worst racists.

Seriously? This drama could happen at any conf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256911)

It's unfortunate that PyCon is being dragged into something that could have happened at any tech conference. I think the conference organizers handled it well considering all of the drama happened outside their realm of responsibility.

Will I go next year? Absolutely!. PyCon is on of the best conferences on my yearly schedule.

Imagine 10,000 Adrias with Google Glasses! (4, Insightful)

broward (416376) | about a year ago | (#43256925)

I predict a resurgence in traditional men's clubs.

No one really knows why each of them got fired. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43256931)

The facts that are known.

1) after hearing part of a conversation behind her, a "developer evangelist" decided to take a picture of the two guys and twit it out to her 10,000 followers. The tweet was "Not cool. Jokes about forking repo's in a sexual way and "big" dongles. Right behind me. #pycon ".
2) the convention organizers responded to this twit, and spoke with all three parties.
2) After these events, one of the guys was supposevely fired by his company and she was supposevely fired be her company.

Beyond that, no one really has said exactly why the parties may have been fired.

**
And by the way, codes of conduct are essentially useless. Attendees either behave in a socially acceptable way or they got booted. And the convention orgranizers get to decide what is socially acceptable. Behaving badly may be one example of socially unacceptable behaviour, so might making unwarrented complaints about other attendees.

Human Beings (5, Insightful)

mlwmohawk (801821) | about a year ago | (#43256945)

We are all at risk here. Even though we have freedom of speech, we run the risk of losing our livelihoods if we say something that might offend someone somewhere. Richards was being a real "bitch." I say "bitch" because it is a disparaging name for a female. Not because I wish to be sexist. If the perpetrator of this nonsense was a guy, I'd call him a real "bastard." Calling a woman a "bastard" doesn't seem to be the correct usage in the English language. If someone can come up with a disparaging name to call a female that is not sexist, please suggest one, but if it is not sexists to call a guy a bastard, I refuse to accept that there is no non-sexist name we can call a woman when we are condemning her and her actions, but I digress.

Seriously, I've been in the situation where I have been pulled aside by management for saying something offensive, but they won't say what, to someone, but they won't say who, and that I should stop it, but they don't say how. The whole harassment mentality is very kafka-esque. The REAL hostile work environment is created by zero-tolerance crap, which, by definition, means "intolerant."

Human beings are imperfect. "Appropriate" behavior is a myth of the modern workplace police. Human beings build relationships and we communicate. We are not robots. Humor is part of humanity, and sometimes humor is off color. There is a difference between saying, "Hey, my dongle is bigger than yours" and "Have sex with me or your fired."

Also, lets be honest here, if ms Richard heard these jokes from her friends at that conference, she would not have complained. She should try to understand and take to heart Voltaire's quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." An evangelist should stand for something besides her own notoriety. Gatherings of human beings are generally improved when we all try to be tolerant of one another.

Karma just saying (1)

Leaky Discharge (256331) | about a year ago | (#43256995)

What those guys did was immature but let's be honest they weren't trying to cause harm to anybody. They may have been trying to be offensive or not, but even then if something somebody says gets you upset that's on you not them. But what she did was just wrong why try to hurt someone's career because they dared to say something she found offensive not to mention they were not even speaking to her. And for all her efforts at least she got one of them fired, and herself too. Funny how the universe works.

I won't go to Pycon. (4, Insightful)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about a year ago | (#43257023)

Certainly not if my job can be put at risk because some attention-seeker decides to be offended by an innocent remark I make in a private conversation that they happen to overhear.

I don't care if you're offended. There's a bunch of stuff that offends me but you don't hear me whining on about it, because I'm a grown-up and I have learned that other people think differently from me.

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