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'Energy Beet' Power Is Coming To America

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the yes-but-do-you-have-a-lobby dept.

Power 238

Hugh Pickens writes writes "Gosia Wonzniacka reports that farmers in Fresno County, California, supported by university experts and a $5 million state grant, are set to start construction of the nation's first commercial-scale bio-refinery to turn beets into biofuel with farmers saying the so-called 'energy beets' can deliver ethanol yields more than twice those of corn per acre because beets have a higher sugar content per ton than corn. 'We're trying to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and to shift our transportation fuels to a lower carbon content,' says Robert Weisenmiller. 'The beets have the potential to provide that.' Europe already has more than a dozen such plants, so the bio-refinery would resurrect a crop that has nearly vanished. The birthplace of the sugar beet industry, California once grew over 330,000 acres of the gnarly root vegetable (PDF), with 11 sugar mills processing the beets but as sugar prices collapsed, the mills shut down. So what's the difference between sugar beets and energy beets? To produce table sugar, producers are looking for sucrose, sucrose and more sucrose. Energy beets, on the other hand, contain multiple sugars, meaning sucrose as well as glucose, fructose and other minor sugars, called invert sugars. To create energy beet hybrids, plant breeders select for traits such as high sugar yield, not just sucrose production. America's first commercial energy beet bio-refinery will be capable of producing 40 million gallons of ethanol annually but the bio-refinery will also bring jobs and investment, putting about 80 beet growers and 35,000 acres back into production."

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I generate power by feeding spam to my hosts file (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262303)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.

apk on 4chan [4chan.org]

INCONTROVERTIBLE FEEDBACK PROVIDING ESTABLISHED PROOF OF ALL MY POINTS:

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That was amazing. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]

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My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]

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Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]

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put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]

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Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]

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He's done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone in the "do it right and set up a firewall" crowd ever could. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

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Can I have some of what you're on? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40947587 [slashdot.org]

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this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]

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oh come on.. this is hilarious. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]

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I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]

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Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]

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As mentioned by another AC up there, the troll in question is actually a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

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It's actually a very clever parody of APK - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]

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Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]

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$20,000 to anyone providing proof of Alexander Peter Kowalski's death. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958289 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]

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And here I was thinking I was having a bad experience with a Dr. Bronner's bottle. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952247 [slashdot.org]

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Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]

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I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]

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Does anyone know if OpenGL has been ported to Windows yet? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956781 [slashdot.org]

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golfclap - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40900827 [slashdot.org]

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The Truth! wants to be Known! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897389 [slashdot.org]

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DNS cube? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897493 [slashdot.org]

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KUDOS valiant AC. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]

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Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]

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You made my day, thanks! - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]

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Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]

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truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]

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It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]

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Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]

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APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]

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You got that right. I think. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972239 [slashdot.org]

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Michael Kristopeit, is that you? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972377 [slashdot.org]

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ROFL! :) (Now the sick bastard will follow me again) - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429251 [slashdot.org]

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I miss Dr Bob. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432027 [slashdot.org]

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Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]

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Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]

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That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]

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I am intrigued and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555345 [slashdot.org]

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1. You philistine, that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]

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What? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]

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I don't know if it is poorly-thought-out, but it is demented because it is at the same time an APK parody. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832905 [slashdot.org]

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It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]

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er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]

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performance art - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847089 [slashdot.org]

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it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]

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Seems more like an apk parody. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]

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That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]

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Oh, come on. Just stand back and look at it. It's almost art, in a Jackson Pollock sort of way. - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41868923 [slashdot.org]

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Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]

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I can has summary? - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]

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I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41868133 [slashdot.org]

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If [apk] made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41869409 [slashdot.org]

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DAFUQ I just look at? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869085 [slashdot.org]

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Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]

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We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]

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Do you know about the shocking connection between APK and arsenic? No? Well, your innocence is about to be destroyed. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939965 [slashdot.org]

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Send bug reports to 903 east division street, syracuse, ny 13208 - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972783 [slashdot.org]

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Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]

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Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]

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In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]

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You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]

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"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]

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I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]

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Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]

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Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43048291 [slashdot.org]

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Best. Troll. Ever. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]

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I like monkeys. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]

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This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]

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lul wut? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3510265&cid=43057839 [slashdot.org]

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I admire this guy's persistence. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]

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It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]

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Tabloid newspapers have speculated for years that APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. Too bad we didn't believe them sooner! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]

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Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]

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I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]

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^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]

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I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]

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The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]

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AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]

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Don't hate the player, hate the game. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526293&cid=43110679 [slashdot.org]

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If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]

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">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]

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No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]

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The thirteenth link is broken. Please fix it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115361 [slashdot.org]

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Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]

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Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]

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YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]

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I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]

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Can I be in your quote list? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]

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Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]

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+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]

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Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]

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APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]

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Anyone else think that sounds like Ron Paul? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43242417 [slashdot.org]

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I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]

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You make mikael christ the pet look like an huggable teddy bear - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43242373 [slashdot.org]

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oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]

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"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]

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"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]

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"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]

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Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]

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you have a point - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]

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I do admire that level of dedication. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]

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I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43250411 [slashdot.org]

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I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573571&cid=43251593 [slashdot.org]

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Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573679&cid=43252957 [slashdot.org]

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Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573873&cid=43255013 [slashdot.org]

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Happy now - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43237239 [slashdot.org]

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Professional. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255143 [slashdot.org]

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I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43256029 [slashdot.org]

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extremely bright - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255855 [slashdot.org]

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You provide many references, which is good. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43257043 [slashdot.org]

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Holy shit - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576121&cid=43260311 [slashdot.org]

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You're my personal hero. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43260747 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously very passionate - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43261975 [slashdot.org]

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Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

Disproof of all apk's statements:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040729&cid=40949719 [slashdot.org]
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http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576883&cid=43262041 [slashdot.org]
AND MANY MORE

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* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [google.com] I practice.

Re:I generate power by feeding spam to my hosts fi (-1, Offtopic)

fatgreek (453627) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262331)

I don't understand this person at all.

Re:I generate power by feeding spam to my hosts fi (-1, Offtopic)

reboot246 (623534) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262495)

Is that ALL you have to say? C'mon! Tell us what you really think.

Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every way (5, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262329)

There's nothing good about energy beets. We already know we can use algae [nrel.gov] , and that it is superior in a variety of ways.

Do not cheer this. There is nothing good about this. It is merely less evil than using corn as a fuel feedstock.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (5, Insightful)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262347)

You will probably get modded into a smoking hole in the ground, but you are right.
Reducing our dependence on fossil fuels is of course a good thing, and if we don't start developing alternative technologies now, then we'll be in trouble when it does run out. Although that date does seem to keep slipping, as discovery and extraction keeps improving.

However, mindlessly subsidising things which are patently never going to be competitive makes no sense, except to the politicians and 'green' shills who do not seem to count, or reason, the same as most logical and well-educated folk.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (5, Insightful)

aurispector (530273) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262409)

Note that it's a government grant, not private industry. This is basically political patronage; whatever people running it will be contributing heavily to whatever political party was responsible for the grant. If sugar beets were a viable fuel source someone would be doing it already.

This just shifts the problem from one of directly increasing world corn (and therefore food) prices by diverting corn production to fuel to one of indirectly increasing world food priced by diverting farmland from food production to fuel production.

The worst part is that large scale farming has a significant environmental impact in terms of pesticide and fertilizer use as well as runoff into waterways. We don't gain much benefit from carbon reductions and a lot of costs from the farming itself.

It's a dead end and everyone knows it. Political hypocrisy at it's finest.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (4, Interesting)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262451)

The problem with corn ethanol isn't the diversion of farmland, it's that it's a completely artificial diversion. Corn is so subsidized no one knows how much it costs anywhere, and world food prices are creating local scarcity because no one can outcompete US government subsidized corn - so local farming never has any incentive to grow it or other staples, as opposed to cash crops (many of which are incredibly harmful to local soil ecology to do so).

World food prices need to be allowed to rise gradually so the local economies which are importing can transition to growing locally or, people with an actual competitive advantage can move in to drive them down in a non-artificial way. But playing games with how much corn there is predictably creates price shocks because technically there's enough product in the market place, it's just mysteriously not getting to the locals, yet simultaneously can't be expected to reliably stay high either.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

Let's All Be Chinese (2654985) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262915)

I'm all for reducing^Wgetting rid of protectionist subsidies. Problem is, of course, that but a few, even just one large enough party has to start and everyone follows suit for fear of being left bereft of local producers because they weren't subsidised enough.

Also, not happy with using things we could be eating to generate energy. Corn is just silly, inasmuch that ethanol-for-energy from it being economic illustrates your point. Purpose-picked and -bred crops are better, but still not ideal.

Much rather I'd try, oh, taking PV or some other collection mechanism to a desert, and somehow use it to provide shade and moisture retention for crops that couldn't otherwise grow there, as well as for its energy collection properties.

Tangentially related is the practice of getting fertiliser from faraway, using it locally, then not transporting the waste that normally would be eventually turned into new fertiliser back. That is a problem that ultimately results in exhausted land and then into more destruction of rainforest for more farmland to exhaust. Not the only factor, but still.

If we'd take out all subsidies, including indirect ones (say on fuel), we might find that prices change but not necessarily up the cost of living. The subsidies are paid for by taxpayers, so the net effect over the total population is going to be a small drop due to less overhead (ideally), even if individual food prices will be higher. What it'd do for the individual? Maybe it'll end up promoting a change in lifestyle, reducing obesity, who knows?

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262991)

Without the subsidies, what will they grow? hemp?

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (4, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263027)

Much rather I'd try, oh, taking PV or some other collection mechanism to a desert, and somehow use it to provide shade and moisture retention for crops that couldn't otherwise grow there, as well as for its energy collection properties.

That is precisely what I propose, after others. Read the report linked at the top of this thread! You pump dirty water into the desert, you grow algae on it thus capturing solar energy and carbon as well as nitrates and then you make biofuel, probably using PV for pumps and centrifuges and a combination of solar water heat and direct solar thermal for heating. Waste water is dumped into the desert, eventually replenishing aquifers. Waste material can be shipped out as fertilizer, or used on-site as fertilizer for land reclamation. You can also site the algae production facilities near coal and oil plants and use them as part of a CO2 capture strategy which can reclaim up to 80% of such emissions, increasing algae production in the process. We The People have already paid for the development of many technologies which can benefit us in this fashion if we only demonstrate the wisdom to accept them and the will to make them happen.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (2)

CanadianRealist (1258974) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262813)

If sugar beets were a viable fuel source someone would be doing it already.

From the summary: "Europe already has more than a dozen such plants". So maybe it is viable.

In any case your argument suggests that anything that isn't currently being done isn't viable. So any sort of progress is never possible.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (4, Informative)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262891)

From the summary: "Europe already has more than a dozen such plants". So maybe it is viable.

European beet farmers are heavily subsidized. So Europe is an example of beet-energy not being viable.

In any case your argument suggests that anything that isn't currently being done isn't viable. So any sort of progress is never possible.

We need to try new things. But we also need to not squander resources on dead ends. Beet ethanol is not as stupid as corn ethanol, but it is still stupid. If we were serious about ethanol as a fuel (rather than as a source of subsidies for special interests) we would eliminate the prohibitive tariffs on Brazilian cane ethanol.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

demonlapin (527802) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262607)

if we don't start developing alternative technologies now, then we'll be in trouble when it does run out

Meh. We've obviously got enough left for quite a while. It might get expensive, though that will provide plenty of incentive to find new sources of energy. Pork barrel grants are not the solution; economically viable technologies are. Too bad the former does not produce the latter.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

camg188 (932324) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263187)

I believe you are right. People often forget about one of the big driving factors in human civilization: Necessity is the mother of invention.
Where we stand right now is that the necessity to replace fossil fuels does not outweigh costs of alternative energy sources. We will not "be in trouble when it does run out" because fossil fuels will not run out like a tank on empty. They will gradually become less economical and gradually be replaced by newer, more economical alternative sources.

What it needs is a good theme song (4, Funny)

goombah99 (560566) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262869)

With apologies to the aptly named Go-Gos

See the people driving down the street
Fall in line just waiting for their beet
They don't know where they wanna go
But they're in the fill-up line

They got the beet
They got the beet
Yeah
They got the beet

Re:What it needs is a good theme song (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43263139)

With apologies to the aptly named Go-Gos

See the people driving down the street
Fall in line just waiting for their beet
They don't know where they wanna go
But they're in the fill-up line

They got the beet
They got the beet
Yeah
They got the beet

(And I'll pick it up from there, with apologies to Elon Musk and anyone with the misfortune to see me dance.)

Go to job, drop the kids off at their school,
Bought a Tesla, don't need no fossil fuels,
Won't be charged 'til quarter after twelve,
That's when they get in line...

They got the beet
They got the beet
Yeah!
They got the beet

Takes a lot of beer to make us dance,
Drink enough, it puts us in a trance,
Ethanol, just give it a chance,
That's when we fall in line!

We got the beet
We got the beet
Yeah!
We got the beet!

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

Alioth (221270) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262919)

While the exhaustion date keeps slipping, the problem is what's important to our society as it stands today is not the availability of oil, but the availability of cheap oil. The cheap oil is nearly gone, and we're going to have a whole lot of trouble anyway since we're going to have to readjust to a world where energy isn't cheap, at least in the medium term.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (5, Insightful)

c (8461) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262383)

We already know we can use algae, and that it is superior in a variety of ways.

"Can use it" and "are ready to use it on a massive scale" are two entirely different things. There's a ton of traditional farmers out there who could transition from corn to beets in a single season. Algae farmers... not so many.

Do not cheer this. There is nothing good about this. It is merely less evil than using corn as a fuel feedstock.

Well, it's not great, but it is a crack in the monoculture-for-fuel mindset.

That being said, I don't know enough about beets to say whether it's much improvement over corn. They tout a doubled energy output, but without knowing the comparable energy, pesticide and water inputs it's a bit tough to determine whether there's any economic advantage, particularly after factoring in corn production subsidies.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262469)

"Can use it" and "are ready to use it on a massive scale" are two entirely different things.

That's true. Unfortunately for your argument, we've had this technology for over twenty years. We've had more than enough time to spin up. And the process should have been profitable at least since 2010 [bulktransporter.com] , and how long does it take to dig some round trenches and line them with plastic, anyway?

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (4, Interesting)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263001)

we've had this technology for over twenty years.

Algae based fuel has been "just around the corner" for a lot longer than twenty years. I first read about in the 1970s, and even then it wasn't a new idea. Algae energy is like fusion energy: it has huge potential, but also huge obstacles, and those obstacles have not been surmounted even after decades of effort.

 

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263117)

Algae energy is like fusion energy: it has huge potential, but also huge obstacles, and those obstacles have not been surmounted even after decades of effort.

Well, no. Algae energy is like reprocessing nuclear fuel and using it again in fission reactors. The parallels are clear: in one case we capture CO2 and reuse it again, having rebuilt the bonds we break with the power of sunlight, while in the other case we reprocess the fuel and use it again. Either way we are diminishing waste. And the other parallel, of course, is that the restrictions are political. We know how to do these things already, at least in broad strokes. The technical hurdles are insignificant compared to the political ones.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

GrumpySteen (1250194) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263195)

without knowing the comparable energy, pesticide and water inputs it's a bit tough to determine whether there's any economic advantage

Here's a study [utexas.edu] from 2008 which gives that very information.

"From extensive analysis holding all things equal between the feedstocks, sugar beets is a much more efficient feedstock. Sugar beet ethanol loses only 51.1% of the energy it provides, whereas corn loses 90.35% of the energy in the production of the ethanol."

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262401)

Incorrect. We use beets to feed deer 'round here. Trust me, anything that's cheap enough to feed deer is cheap enough to convert into ethanol.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (2)

taiwanjohn (103839) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262497)

We should implement an open-fuel standard [wikipedia.org] , requiring all new cars to be flex-fuel capable. That would break the monopoly of oil as a transportation fuel, bringing real competition for the first time in a century. More importantly, fully flex-fuel vehicles can run on methanol just as well as ethanol (or any mix of these and/or gasoline). Thus, fuel crops would not have to compete with food crops for agricultural resources, since methanol can be made from any type of biomass. This would also have the added benefit of boosting ag markets in developing countries and making them -- the whole world really -- less dependent on petroleum.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262569)

We should implement an open-fuel standard, requiring all new cars to be flex-fuel capable

Most new cars are flex-fuel capable already. Most diesels will run on B100 and all gassers will run on Butanol, which we are not permitted to buy because BP and DuPont's shell company Butamax has not yet figured out how to legislate all competition out of the market. There is nothing good about mass-market ethanol fuel. I'm told that if you can figure out the magical document number, our own government will sell you a booklet explaining how to produce ethanol from waste with a solar still, and that this used to be a fairly common thing to do on the farm in order to power the family tractor. That's almost the only good example of ethanol as a fuel, because the energy going into the process (which is substantial!) is mostly solar, and because the fuel is being produced from a waste product, and finally because the fuel is used on-site.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262615)

Really ?

    My VW TDI can run on alcohol ? That is kind of news to me. Do you mind pointing out ANY reference to that. The production of biodiesel actually has a alcohol removal process to get rid of ethanol or methanol. I believe you are mis-informed.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262935)

Really ?

        My VW TDI can run on alcohol ?

You don't have a VW TDI, because you don't exist. You're a figment of your own imagination. If you existed, surely you would have logged in.

Also, what I'm talking about is not running on ethanol. What I'm saying for people like you who disingenuously "fail" to understand what I'm saying, is that diesels are already multifuel vehicles.

With that said, do a little research. By raising compression and altering injection, diesels can be run on E95. Classic IDIs usually have the compression already, but altering their timing and other injection characteristics is often a hassle.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (2)

taiwanjohn (103839) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262691)

AFAIK, currently some cars are flex-fuel, but not all, and on many it's optional (plus, not all can handle methanol). If I were buying a car today, I'd certainly go with a fully flex-capable one (since I can't afford a Tesla). Last time I checked, the bulk price of methanol was about $1.50/gal, and as you note, it can be made "at home" from a wide variety of feedstocks... yard waste, for example.

The jump from ethanol to methanol is important because it takes fuel out of competition with food. Ethanol (at the moment) is hard to make from anything that doesn't contain starch or sugar, whereas methanol can be made from sawdust, or just about anything almost.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (2)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262927)

You are right. One can make methanol from anything, including coal and gas. So we will never run out of liquid fuel. For example, South Africa has been synthesizing fuel from coal on a massive scale since the 1950s.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

wanfuse123 (2860713) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262519)

I would be interested in seeing more about fuel from algae, as for corn based, I know it is not a good thing. It makes no sense and under no circumstance will it ever become a viable solution. It's good to see that this uses otherwise wasted land, but can it be scaled. If they could find a plant species to use that would grow in land that has no vegetation whatsoever like maybe desert. Then it might make sense. But you would still have the problem with supplying it with water which is becoming ever an increasing precious substance. What's the difference using beats in this respect? I venture none. As for algae, doesn't one run into the same problem, what's the difference? Anyone? Let's invest as heavily in Air Carbon Capture [rawcell.com] by recycling plastics waste to pay for it [rawcell.com] and in development of generation IV nuclear reactors [rawcell.com] based on methods that don't use lot's of Uranium (as in non spent Uranium. Spent Uranium is O.K. since those types of reactors get rid of the long term waste. If we invested in generation IV nuclear reactors, we could convert all our coal plants for 1.6 Trillion in capital cost. [rawcell.com] .

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262547)

If they could find a plant species to use that would grow in land that has no vegetation whatsoever like maybe desert. Then it might make sense.

It's called algae.

But you would still have the problem with supplying it with water which is becoming ever an increasing precious substance.

Wrong. Clean water is an increasingly precious substance. Water is plentiful. Algae doesn't care if it's salt or fresh, clean or dirty. Leave it lying and an algae which can live in it will come along and colonize it.

What's the difference using beats in this respect?

If you use beats, you will also need lyrics.

I venture none.

That's because you don't know what you are talking about.

As for algae, doesn't one run into the same problem, what's the difference?

If you read the PDF I linked at the top of this thread, you would know the answer. Please don't attempt to contribute to a conversation until you have something to contribute. Or, short form: Pipe down, son, the adults are talking.

Let's invest as heavily in Air Carbon Capture by recycling plastics waste to pay for it

Recycling plastics waste does not make money. Also, where do you think the carbon in algae comes from, the moon?

and in development of generation IV nuclear reactors

There are many technical hurdles between now and a future in which such a reactor would be a suitable replacement for transportation fuel. But we can use algae as a feedstock for making green diesel, a direct 1:1 replacement for petrodiesel in literally every way, but with lesser emissions of all kinds; or for making butanol, a direct 1:1 replacement for gasoline in literally every way, but with lesser emissions of all kinds. We can do this with the technology of over twenty years ago, and use the fuels directly in our existing vehicles to make them carbon-neutral. We can then save more of our oil for making plastics and lubricants, which are substantially more difficult to make out of other sources because so much of the work has been done for us.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

wanfuse123 (2860713) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262873)

You should read my articles before you point me out for not reading yours. The reason I didn't read your article is it keeps crashing my chrome browser. Also as far as algae, I said nothing about algae, I posed it as a question. It is interesting about algae being able to use any type of water but is it a viable solution right now? Why are we not using it? In the case of LFTR reactors they are not being used today because of the reasons I outlined here: Ulterior Motives [rawcell.com] . I would be interested in seeing more about the algae solution. Is it being tested? Is it actually producing fuel? What's the power density of the fuel? The CO2 output of the fuel per gallon? Please re-post your your well thought out document in HTML please so I can read it. You stated, "Recycling plastics waste does not make money. Also, where do you think the carbon in algae comes from, the moon?" You are wrong plastic waste recycling can supply us with 74 billion dollars per year in gas at today's prices ( By the way no one is paying me to promote this solution.) With the cost of recycling in USA we would earn 147.16 billion in 10 years. That assumes a life time of the recycling plants of 10 years which is an extremely conservative estimate and is probably closer to 30 years. You said, "There are many technical hurdles between now and a future in which such a reactor would be a suitable replacement for transportation fuel. " Those hurdles are no greater than the hurdles that the US undertook in creating an atomic bomb, or in landing on the moon. With a Manhattan style project which originally took 4 years in the 1940's we could overcome the technical hurdles. Also it isn't a LFTR type of Thorium reactor, but India will have their first 500 MWe plant running in 2013! Six more will follow in the next few years that are meant for commercial use. If India can do it then why can't the US do it? You said, "If you use beats, you will also need lyrics." Very witty, it seems you pay more attention to spelling than substance. I would suggest you read my articles before you judge them as being wrong unlike your article it doesn't crash ones browser to read. (By the way I wouldn't point this out except your being so nasty.) I include all the math necessary to come to my conclusions in my article. I guess it's easier to point out spelling mistakes than it is to read a mathematical analysis of substance. Generation IV reactors can provide the whole US economy with an energy solution for 1000 years. That's every last Watt of power. Can algae do the same? By the way nothing in my first statement statement indicated that there was a reason to not use algae as a solution. On the contrary I feel we should use almost all forms of alternative energy sources. With the exclusion of the use of ethanol. I didn't bother pointing out that your document crashes my browser, I guess I should have pointed that out originally but I assumed it was my browser that had the problem and just posed the questions instead.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262959)

You should read my articles before you point me out for not reading yours. The reason I didn't read your article is it keeps crashing my chrome browser.

The "article" is a bog-standard PDF which represents a government report. If it is crashing your Chrome browser, then your Chrome browser is shit.

It is interesting about algae being able to use any type of water but is it a viable solution right now? Why are we not using it?

It is a viable solution right now. We are not using it because it is a viable solution right now. You would need BLM land to do it. You can strip mine for coal or drill for oil in BLM land but solar projects have been repeatedly stalled while asking for approval, just try making biofuel from algae and taking a gigantic shit on Big Oil in the process and see how far you get. You're like a child.

You stated, "Recycling plastics waste does not make money. Also, where do you think the carbon in algae comes from, the moon?" You are wrong plastic waste recycling can supply us with 74 billion dollars per year in gas at today's prices

It is more energy-intensive to recycle plastics than to make virgin plastics, which is why we're not doing it. I met a guy who invented a process for air-testing bottles made from recycled plastics, pretty straightforward but hey, I didn't do it. Anyway the truth is that the slightest contamination with other plastics will cause pinholing so recycled bottles are more expensive in every way. Consequently they are often collected, separated, and landfilled in the hope that some future generation will come up with a cost-effective means of recycling them.

ou said, "There are many technical hurdles between now and a future in which such a reactor would be a suitable replacement for transportation fuel. " Those hurdles are no greater than the hurdles that the US undertook in creating an atomic bomb, or in landing on the moon.

We would have to replace all of our cars, since retrofits are not practical and because the automakers have too much hold on politics and would never permit it.

You said, "If you use beats, you will also need lyrics." Very witty, it seems you pay more attention to spelling than substance.

I also care more about formatting. I'm just picking out anything that jumps out at me from your wall of text. If you can't use HTML tags, at least switch over to plain text mode and hit enter twice every once in a while, huh?

I would suggest you read my articles before you judge them as being wrong unlike your article it doesn't crash ones browser to read. (By the way I wouldn't point this out except your being so nasty.)

My being nasty is completely orthogonal to your shit browser.

Call me when you have a working plant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262563)

Sugar beet will work. There is no working algae biofuel plant. Sure it is not optimal because you are using top soil, but better than corn, and who knows, break the corn monopoly enough and you change metnality / stop with the stupid sugar embargo.

Re:Call me when you have a working plant (2)

phriot (2736421) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262723)

There is no working algae biofuel plant.

This company [joulefuels.com] seems to be making great progress on bringing the algae technology to market. They have a pilot plant in Texas, last I checked.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262601)

I'm certainly not a big fan of using food crops for alcohol production, but Brazil seems to be quite successful at sustainably producing alcohol fuel from sugar cane. (Yeah, you'll probably blast me for being ignorant about some aspect of Brazilian agri-biz.) Sugar cane also has the added benefit of being able to burn the waste product as a fuel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

And ordinarily I'd say that (our) government should not be in the business of subsidizing any particular fuel or method of producing it. However, we're just too big and the oil industry has such a tight stranglehold on distribution, we need a way to bootstrap wholesale distribution of alternative fuels and production of cars that can use them.I would (grudgingly) consent to government involvement to achieve that, with a built-in plan to disengage once the markets become self sustaining.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (3, Informative)

MangoCats (2757129) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262967)

Well, what I read that I like is over 1000 gallons of ethanol produced per acre-year. Since my family ethanol/gasoline needs are approximately 1000 gallons per year, that means that even evil energy beet fuel production only needs one acre of farm land to produce our energy needs, half that if we update our vehicles to higher efficiency ones. This is, of course, ignoring the cost of production issues.

Now, with nearly 100 million families of four (equivalent, also consider that we might be below average in our fuel consumption) in the U.S. - 100 million acres is a lot of farmland - a bit over 10% [census.gov] , but it wouldn't be a bad transition from oil.

Maybe algae energy is better, certainly is if it can be done on marginal lands, but either way, I'm liking the biofuel implications here.

Re:Topsoil-based fuels are wrongheaded in every wa (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263207)

Since my family ethanol/gasoline needs are approximately 1000 gallons per year, that means that even evil energy beet fuel production only needs one acre of farm land to produce our energy needs,

It doesn't work that way. Even it it's more energy-positive than corn into ethanol, it's still going to require a bunch of energy input in the form of oil that is completely unnecessary while using algae.

Maybe algae energy is better, certainly is if it can be done on marginal lands,

Not only can it be done anywhere you can scrape a flat spot (with decent insolation, anyway) but it can be done with water unsuitable for growing beets even as a feedstock, e.g. brackish or outright sea-salty water. Indeed, it will be one of the few things we can grow once, they're done using the topsoil up by growing fuel feedstocks with petrochemicals.

So you're using arable land... (5, Insightful)

DiamondGeezer (872237) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262335)

...to grow energy instead of food. Which means the price of food rises and the poor riot as they cannot afford to buy food,

So immoral that even Al Gore rejected it, which is saying somethng.

Re:So you're using arable land... (2)

thammoud (193905) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262359)

and the new cartel will be Monsanto and co. Evil idea all around.

Re:So you're using arable land... (2)

Antony-Kyre (807195) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262387)

I would have thought we would have learned this by now-that growing fuel in such a manner is a bad idea.

Re:So you're using arable land... (2)

Dereck1701 (1922824) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262425)

I believe the article covered this issue, the land being used is poor for most crops (salty and arid). It sounds like the only crop that can be economically grown is cotton, and the fields are suffering decreased yields from lack of crop rotation. So it sounds like this is not displacing any food crops at all, and over the long term it may even increase the yields of the crop it is displacing. While this is not a situation that is going to be repeatable in many areas, IMHO this isn't such a bad thing. One of our biggest problems has been focusing on one source for some of our energy needs (Petroleum at the moment for vehicles), having a variety of sources (corn/sugar-beat ethanol, biomass, biodiesel, electric) will help insure that if one source encounters issues (strike, pest problem, drought, shortages) the others can pick up the slack.

Re:So you're using arable land... (2)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262505)

Another thing that people seem to have missed is that since it's going for ethanol production instead of food, it can be grown on really badly contaminated land. The waste from making ethanol can either be composted or just ploughed straight back in - and if you're really clever, you'll extract whatever was contaminating the land while you make the ethanol.

Bung some clover on it to start with and then plough that straight in the year you plant your sugar beet, and you're good to go.

One word (5, Insightful)

c0lo (1497653) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262435)

Water.
Sugar beet is less land demanding than corn, but has higher water needs.

Re:So you're using arable land... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262467)

the poor riot as they cannot afford to buy food

Not really. The poor will be too malnourished to riot effectively. :-)

Re:So you're using arable land... (2)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262503)

Growing energy instead of food, when food is subsidized to the farmer by the government because much more is grown than the market can bear... is not immoral. There is not a shortage of food, and rarely has been. There is a shortage of ability to get food to people who are starving, but growing more food doesn't fix that.

Re:So you're using arable land... (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262603)

...to grow energy instead of food. Which means the price of food rises and the poor riot as they cannot afford to buy food,

So immoral that even Al Gore rejected it, which is saying somethng.

Instead of tortilla riots, there could be beet riots.

Re:So you're using arable land... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262735)

So immoral that even Al Gore rejected it, which is saying somethng.

That just means Al Jazeera isn't interested in buying it from him. Gore is an empty suit regardless of the discussion.

Re:So you're using arable land... (1)

couchslug (175151) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263173)

The poor won't riot in the US if the US uses sugar beets. There will still be ample food.

We aren't even to the "victory garden" and "small truck farm" stage because food is so inexpensive here. Go elsewhere in the world and you'll see many productive small holdings. Vast amounts of arable land lie fallow throughout the US. Gardening is practical (and was once the norm) even in suburban areas. Those long, deep backyards found in many older Northern communities once held gardens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_garden [wikipedia.org]

Fowl are another convenient option.I keep backyard chickens and for the price of a bag of scratch every couple of months (they are semi-free range) I have more eggs than I can eat and a bug-free yard.
Their eggs are delicious and quite unlike the flavorless shit you buy in stores. No drugs or antibiotics in 'em either.

It bears relentless reminding that the people in countries which _fail_ to produce sufficient food are suffering the _consequences_ of the _choices_ the adults who run those countries make.

Hemp (1)

tiberiandusk (894649) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262341)

I'm guessing hemp would require a lot less tending to get a similar amount. Instead of having to weed the beets you can just have a field of weed/s.

Re:Hemp (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262357)

Look: stop it with hemp already. We know you like to smoke pot, but don't hide it by talking about hemp. Hemp doesn't have a high sugar content.

If hemp was so useful then countries that didn't ban its production would be growing it in huge amounts. That doesn't happen. It isn't a conspiracy. Hemp is not useful.

Very little sugar in Hemp (2)

robbak (775424) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262375)

Hemp does not contain much free sugar. Almost all of it is converted into cellulose, which is still proving difficult to break down into sugars for conversion to fuels.

Re:Very little sugar in Hemp (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262685)

In fact a proportion of the sugar is for seed production which is oil rich, the cellulose can be converted to sugars using fruiting mushrooms which can then be used for fermentation and the waste product as a soil amendment to improve the next crop.

Sugar? (1)

WGFCrafty (1062506) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262349)

thought when making ethanol from corn, starches were enzymatically converted to sugar? But i suppose if that were true big starchy tubers which are also sweet like sweet potatoes would be ideal.

I still think celluloistic ethanol production is most promising as you can grow for the most biomass/m2. You could also select for plants which put certain nutrients into the soil and rotate them in schedule with other plants while getting paid by mass for the ethanol feedstock.

Re:Sugar? (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262363)

I still think celluloistic ethanol production is most promising as you can grow for the most biomass/m2.

Ethanol is a dream, and a dumb one. We should be making biodiesel and butanol, but we are not due to corporate malfeasance and greed [altenergystocks.com] .

Re:Sugar? (1)

WGFCrafty (1062506) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262555)

I still think celluloistic ethanol production is most promising as you can grow for the most biomass/m2.

Ethanol is a dream, and a dumb one. We should be making biodiesel and butanol, but we are not due to corporate malfeasance and greed [altenergystocks.com] .

I guess i shouldn't have said ethanol, just culloistic fuels in general. What is butanol? I'm looking at VW or Audi's tdi (turbo diesel) right now for the next car.

Re:Sugar? (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262711)

I guess i shouldn't have said ethanol, just culloistic fuels in general.

Are those fuels that come out of your ass? I don't think you can derive sufficient energy unless you install Mr. Fusion.

What is butanol?

You are sitting at a computer which can act as a terminal to the vast stores of human knowledge, and you choose to attempt to gain that knowledge and posting to slashdot instead of simply typing the key word into the little google search field most likely present in the upper-right corner of your browser? The mind reels.

I'm looking at VW or Audi's tdi (turbo diesel) right now for the next car.

Which is to say, VW's, since they own Audi. It's a fine engine. Don't buy one not made in Wolfsberg.

Clarifying the definition of 'invert sugars' (4, Insightful)

robbak (775424) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262367)

The summary (and probably the article as well) does not make this clear. Invert sugars are mixtures of glucose and fructose, generated by applying acids, heat or enzymes to sucrose.

So the sentence should be read "...meaning sucrose as well as (glucose, fructose and other minor sugars,) called invert sugars.

All Biofuels are a crock.. (5, Informative)

nweaver (113078) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262399)

It's all a simple matter of area: With an electric vehicle my entire transportation energy usage can pretty much be covered with a small rooftop solar system. To do it with biofuels would require acres of space.

The problem is simple: Photosynthesis is just vastly less efficient than photo voltaic solar

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (1)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262463)

This. Any solar panel which does better then about 4% efficiency is ahead of plants, and we can do 15% no problems these days on silicon.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262475)

This is so on the money. Why would you want to go sun+dirt+water -> sugar -> ethanol -> power when you can go sun -> battery -> power?

I don't know if today's solar collectors and batteries are efficient enough to use this way, but I can't imagine they won't soon exceed photosynthesis and biofuels in terms of efficiency, if they haven't already.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (1)

lobiusmoop (305328) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262633)

Maybe because agriculture and fermentation have been used for thousands of years, whereas lithium and lead-based rechargeable batteries have lifespans less than a decade?

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (2)

foniksonik (573572) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263075)

Maybe someone should try it though. Would be pretty cool looking. A field of solars trickle charging batteries. A farmer sits at a monitor watching his "produce" develop and goes out to harvest when the batteries are full. He collects them and packs them on trucks, on their way to the market to be sold at an energy futures price decided in a contract earlier that year.

p.s. the batteries would likely be in a water-tight long shed nearby (don't want to lose energy in long transmission lines).

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43263151)

So you're going to haul truck-loads of batteries to a city because you're worried about transmission line losses?

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (2)

Cwix (1671282) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262487)

Bonus: You don't need to drain an aquifer to generate that either.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262501)

Less efficient per square foot, but when you already have millions of free square feet, vs. sending your millions of dollars to China to buy rare-earth solar panels, the equation tilts a different way.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (2)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262523)

But, unfortunately, energy density of batteries are much less efficient than ethanol, and so is charging ability. I can't do as much as fast with electric cars as ethanol cars, and until that is solved, there are far bigger problems than acreage.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (2)

swillden (191260) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262817)

But, unfortunately, energy density of batteries are much less efficient than ethanol, and so is charging ability. I can't do as much as fast with electric cars as ethanol cars, and until that is solved, there are far bigger problems than acreage.

While this is true, it's irrelevant for the majority of vehicle-miles driven. How many commuters live more than 40 miles from work? Given charging infrastructure in both places, current-generation EVs (like my Nissan LEAF) are perfect. Right now, an EV is a great second car for most people, and could even be an only car for many if you are willing to rent a gas burner for the occasional longer trips.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263059)

While this is true, it's irrelevant for the majority of vehicle-miles driven. How many commuters live more than 40 miles from work?

That's a good question, but I know it's actually a lot. Especially in California, where we have the most people, the most cars, and the most vehicle-miles traveled. Commutes longer than 40 miles are, sadly, just not that unusual in the USA.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262587)

You are of course discounting the energy that transports your food, ipods, etc.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262675)

Pretty much. I would love to see solar panels be put on the sides of large buildings as well. A sort of profit-share thing where the building owners also get some of the money, but it is overall funded by a 3rd party or the council / local government in question.
Not just on the sides of some buildings either, right on the top of a lot, in addition to rooftop and side-wall gardens.

Rooftop gardens are one that is really nice, especially if it is done large scale. It will help hugely with air pollution for one, there are a lot of heavy gas eating plants that aren't particularly good for us but don't do too much damage to plants.
Not only that, flies and insects, particularly BEES, one of the more important ones, will flourish. (just so long as it isn't infectious types that like to wreck peoples skins)
Rooftop farms can be pretty effective as well. Most wide buildings can support them without too many changes to the structure. Might need a few more support posts here, but considering most of these buildings have flat-ish roofs in areas where it can quite happily SNOW blankets, not so much of a problem. (especially near me, it is snowing in spring, springter, our winter is just hail and heavy rain, we don't get the snow until later)

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (3, Insightful)

Jumperalex (185007) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262689)

The problem here is a question of energy STORAGE not generation. Until we have better batteries, or some other form of storage, that are comparable to hydrocarbon storage roof top solar will still not be as practical for a lot of transportation needs.

Mind you I'm not saying this is a great idea, especially if beats require "quality" arable land. But if by chance they are viable on land that is not great for other, edible, crops, then it might not be such a horrible idea. IIRC that is why everyone is/was so enthralled with switch-grass.

We need something a bit more sustainable and more carbon neutral to bridge the gap till we get a suitably dense storage medium for automotive use.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (1)

DerekLyons (302214) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262779)

It's all a simple matter of area: With an electric vehicle my entire transportation energy usage can pretty much be covered with a small rooftop solar system. To do it with biofuels would require acres of space.

I hope you're talking about the rooftop of your house... because the rooftop of your car isn't anywhere even close to powering much more than your radio.
 
That being said - if your house solar array is powering your car, that means you're drawing power from the grid for your house. Or driving so very little or consuming so little power at your house that you're a pretty much a statistical anomaly way the hell out on the end of the bell curve. (Charitably assuming you're not just completely clueless.)
 
Either way, as is usually the case, you aren't the world. Not everyone lives in a sunny clime. Or in low density single family housing (where there's a lot of rooftop per individual). The space requirements have to be solved not just for you - but for *everyone*. Your 'solution' doesn't do this.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262847)

" Photosynthesis is just vastly less efficient than photo voltaic solar"

If you discount the energy used in the production of the solar cells and the fact that they have a limited productive life and it works best where its sunny all the time.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (1)

Alioth (221270) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262949)

On the other hand, liquid fuels are vastly easier to store than electricity, and require nothing more complex than a container which offsets many of the advantages of a PV panel.

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (1)

AtomicSnarl (549626) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263077)

Hmm... Explain to me how you are going to charge a 60KwH battery (Tesla, 200 mile range) with a 200 W/m2 solar panel on a 100m2 roof (20KwH) overnight?

Re:All Biofuels are a crock.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43263149)

And we can most optimally collect solar in areas with little agricultural and eccological value such as the American southwest. This way there is little impact to our food production

With the correct plants it is OK (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43263263)

See brazil with sugar cane.

Cue Schrute Farms Commercial (1)

jonlandrum (937349) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262419)

I clicked through almost expecting a picture of Dwight Schrute.

Re:Cue Schrute Farms Commercial (1)

bkmoore (1910118) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262485)

DWIGHT SAYS: "First rule in roadside beet sales, put the most attractive beets on top. The ones that make you pull the car over and go, 'Wow, I need this beet right now.' Those are the money beets."

Can you feel the beet! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262459)

Take control of the energy! 1. 2. 3!

Ethanol is a miserable motor fuel (1)

dltaylor (7510) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262481)

Low net energy density by volume or weight; it grabs moisture from the air, but not in any controlled fashion; as a pretty good solvent, it's hard on a lot of plastics; ...

Instead of the sulfur-laden crap the petro-industry dumps on us as diesel fuel, how 'bout some high-quality bio-derived fuel, instead?

Re:Ethanol is a miserable motor fuel (1)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262529)

$$$. Even more so than the already expensive ethanol(relative to petroleum derivations). Unless it is imposed, few people will choose a fuel source that is significantly more expensive than the dirty alternative.

Re:Ethanol is a miserable motor fuel (4, Interesting)

nojayuk (567177) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262661)

Quite a few Europeans use vegetable oil in their diesel-engined cars. There's a thriving market for small back-of-the-garage "refineries" processing waste cooking oil from fast-food shops etc. to remove some of the more harmful byproducts like glycerine and water as well as filtering out particulates. You can usually tell if someone's doing this as their car exhaust tends to smell of french fries.

Unused cooking oil (usually sunflower or rapeseed) can be poured into the tank without requiring treatment, especially in older diesel cars and vans with mechanical fuel pumps. In the UK the price of cooking oil is now kept artificially high to match the price of garage forecourt diesel (about UKP 1.40 a litre at the moment) since most of that is tax and too many folks were going to Costco and the like and buying vegetable oil in 5-litre containers for a lot less. Theory says that folks using alternative fuels like biodiesel should pay the same duty as petroleum-derived fuels garner but this doesn't happen much as you might expect.

Irrigation for Energy Beets (1)

Jherek Carnelian (831679) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262533)

Are they going to water them with Brawndo?

It's got what plants crave!

Food or fuel? (1)

iiiears (987462) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262565)

The price of food will rise and aquifers are being mined faster than they can be replenished.

http://www.calwatercrisis.org/problem.htm [calwatercrisis.org]

As unscalable as algae or other biofuel solutions (2)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262583)

ALL biofuels are inefficient solar energy collectors whose only advantage is that their output is directly chemical. Even if it took no petroleum based, petroleum transported fertilizer to grow sugar beets in quantity, it still takes land, water and sunlight away from other food crops and the natural ecology, on which we will be dependent for the foreseeable future.

Want to keep running a large scale industrial civilization? Forget biofuels. The unpleasant reality is that in the long run, it's thorium nuclear, space based solar, or nothing much, and civilization as we know it now, contracts contracts significantly, along with the world's population.

If it is supported by university... (1)

jacekm (895699) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262599)

Since it is supported by university scientists it will not be profitable and will be bankrupt in 3 years or less.

JAM

Ethanol is a scam. (2)

kurt555gs (309278) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262643)

Ethanol is to gasoline as sawdust is to hot dogs.

What's the energy balance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262645)

I'm sure the subsidy balance will be tilted in favor of growers, but what's the energy balance? Is there a significant favorable energy balance?

Maybe a bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262683)

I would propose that controls be put in place that would make it illegal to use any land that has produced food crops to produce fuel crops. Good farm land is being lost to urban sprawl and other uses as it is. We do not need to destroy the land that feeds us. The worst of this tragedy has occurred in south Florida which is the only place inside the continental US that can raise many crops in the winter months. Instead of preservation growth has stolen the farm lands and covered them with suburbs and highways. Sugar cane is a huge crop here and I wonder what percentage of cane is being grown for fuel.

Schrute Farms Stock (1)

bradgoodman (964302) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262757)

Buy! Buy! Buy!!!

Short Term Gains (for some) and Long Term Losses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262777)

What concerns me is the effect of bio-fuel on the rate of phosphorus consumption, farming for inefficient energy production while depleting the stocks of a resource which is not quickly renewable may not be the correct call. Also, farming tends to have negative impacts on the surrounding watershed and bodies of water unless fertilized with extreme care. As others have mentioned, water consumption is a other issue. This does not seem like a wise course of action.

Beets are simply batteries... (2)

gatkinso (15975) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262825)

...that store solar energy. There is inefficiency and energy loss at every step of harnessing their energy. TIme to cut out the middle men?

Re:Beets are simply batteries... (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263095)

The problem with beets or other topsoil-based crops isn't energy loss, it's mineral depletion. And, with typical "green revolution" farming techniques, it also involves literal destruction of topsoil through loss of soil diversity, i.e. the death of nematodes and other microscopic beneficials necessary to soil health. Soil is not merely dirt, there is an entire unseen ecology which must exist to maintain it and cause it to be fruitful which is systematically destroyed by typical factory farming methodology such as is used with subsidy-based biofuel crops. The corn grown for ethanol is grown continuously, e.g. without crop rotation or permitting fields to lie fallow. This would not be profitable without subsidies, nor will it be profitable to do the same with beets. And again, the process sells out the future for short-term profit by destroying topsoil — an unusually short-sighted process at a time when global climate change is already threatening food production worldwide.

Re: cut out the middle men (1)

macraig (621737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263165)

You mean like eating the beets and then walking?

Hemp (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43262837)

Hemp is what we need to make befuels with.

Switching from oil to our most valuable resource. (3, Interesting)

StormyWeather (543593) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262955)

All moving to biofuels does is destroy the large underground lake called the ogalala that the midwest sits on. Once gone it is hello dustbowl 2.

Coal is a bio fuel (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year and a half ago | (#43262963)

And oil is probably also.

What A Waste (1)

stoicio (710327) | about a year and a half ago | (#43263223)

It takes a huge amount of energy to boil sugar out of beets.
Is this a big sucking sound from big sugar?

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