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Massachusetts May Try To Tax the Cloud

timothy posted 1 year,23 days | from the if-it-moves-tax-it-if-it's-ephemeral-tax-it dept.

Cloud 172

CowboyRobot writes "A proposed tax in Massachusetts may affect software services and Web design and hosting. If approved, the state estimates the tax may bring in a quarter billion dollars in 2014 by expanding its tax on 'canned software' to include some elements of cloud computing. The tax would cover custom-designed software and services based in the cloud. "Custom" software includes the design of Web sites, so the cost to local businesses of a new Web site would increase by 4.5% on contracts to design the site, write Java, PHP or other custom code. The cost of site hosting and bandwidth would also be taxed."

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Color me shocked... (2, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269281)

It's Mass, FFS. They'd try to tax air if they thought they could get away with it.

Re:Color me shocked... (3, Insightful)

rudy_wayne (414635) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269311)

the state estimates the tax may bring in a quarter billion dollars in 2014

These estimates are always way off. And even *IF* it did bring in that much money, the money would simply be wasted on all sorts of uneccessary bullshit and the state will be no better off than they were before.

Re:Color me shocked... (2, Insightful)

Skapare (16644) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269415)

Sucking a quarter billion dollars from the economic recovery.

Re:Color me shocked... (2, Insightful)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270201)

Sucking a quarter billion dollars from the economic recovery.

Don'cha know, all economic growth comes through government spending. If you believe that, I've got a $125K job for you collecting tolls on the Turnpike.

Re:Color me shocked... (-1)

lightknight (213164) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270713)

Bah, there's always one like you in every crowd. Where do you think the money comes from that pays for the services you use? Like roads and healthcare? It has to come from some place. And those data centers, well, they're using a lot of the local infrastructure, like the electrical grid and parking lots and air. Why shouldn't they be taxed? That's the cost of doing business in Massachusetts: if these clouds want to benefit from the economic policies in place that obviously made it agreeable for them to locate there in the first place, then they need to give something back to the community.


Re:Color me shocked... (3, Insightful)

Lithdren (605362) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270859)

Err...Yes, data centers use eletricity. And they pay for it, just like everyone else does. And that includes taxes on said energy. As for parking lots and air...well the land is taxed so there's your parking lot, and air...umm...well we do charge companies taxes for pollution and tax incentives to cut pollution, but nobody actually 'pays' for air.

Not very clear how Roads and Healthcare play into an internet/software tax, but these are also paid for, by things like gas taxes and however you choose to pay for healthcare currently.

Why is there always someone like YOU in every crowd who feels that everyone else should pay for things? If gas taxes are not covering the costs of road repair for example...we should be taxing more for it. You dont just invent stuff to tax to pay for other things, unless you're an idiot. Thease places give back in the same way as every other company gives back, through taxes and employment. As usual, the idiots in goverment (and idiots like you who vote for them from the looks of it) are just going to drive companies to other places, negating any tax benifits they would have gained, AND losing what they're already getting.

Herp derp.

Re:Color me shocked... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43271093)

u trolling bro?

Re:Color me shocked... (1)

radarskiy (2874255) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270801)

New Hampshire will crow about having no cloud taxes, but never mention that they have no clouds and only siphon off of those in Massachusetts.

Re:Color me shocked... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | 1 year,23 days | (#43271487)

Meanwhile at the corporate headquarters, in Delaware, Dr. No convenes the board.

First agenda item. 'Screw the massholes!'

Good luck trying to tax me; I'm using a hosts file (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269305)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.

apk on 4chan [4chan.org]



That was amazing. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]


My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]


Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]


put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]


Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]


He's done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone in the "do it right and set up a firewall" crowd ever could. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


Can I have some of what you're on? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40947587 [slashdot.org]


this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]


oh come on.. this is hilarious. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]


I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]


Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]


As mentioned by another AC up there, the troll in question is actually a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


It's actually a very clever parody of APK - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]


Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]


$20,000 to anyone providing proof of Alexander Peter Kowalski's death. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958289 [slashdot.org]


Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]


And here I was thinking I was having a bad experience with a Dr. Bronner's bottle. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952247 [slashdot.org]


Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]


I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]


Does anyone know if OpenGL has been ported to Windows yet? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956781 [slashdot.org]


golfclap - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40900827 [slashdot.org]


The Truth! wants to be Known! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897389 [slashdot.org]


DNS cube? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897493 [slashdot.org]


KUDOS valiant AC. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]


Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]


You made my day, thanks! - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]


Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]


truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]


It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]


Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]


APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]


You got that right. I think. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972239 [slashdot.org]


Michael Kristopeit, is that you? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972377 [slashdot.org]


ROFL! :) (Now the sick bastard will follow me again) - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429251 [slashdot.org]


I miss Dr Bob. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432027 [slashdot.org]


Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]


Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]


That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]


I am intrigued and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555345 [slashdot.org]


1. You philistine, that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]


What? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]


I don't know if it is poorly-thought-out, but it is demented because it is at the same time an APK parody. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832905 [slashdot.org]


It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]


er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]


performance art - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847089 [slashdot.org]


it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]


Seems more like an apk parody. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]


That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]


Oh, come on. Just stand back and look at it. It's almost art, in a Jackson Pollock sort of way. - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41868923 [slashdot.org]


Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]


I can has summary? - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]


I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41868133 [slashdot.org]


If [apk] made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41869409 [slashdot.org]


DAFUQ I just look at? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869085 [slashdot.org]


Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]


We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]


Do you know about the shocking connection between APK and arsenic? No? Well, your innocence is about to be destroyed. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939965 [slashdot.org]


Send bug reports to 903 east division street, syracuse, ny 13208 - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972783 [slashdot.org]


Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]


Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]


In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com]. Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]


You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]


"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]


I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]


Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]


Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43048291 [slashdot.org]


Best. Troll. Ever. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]


I like monkeys. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]


This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]


lul wut? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3510265&cid=43057839 [slashdot.org]


I admire this guy's persistence. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]


It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]


Tabloid newspapers have speculated for years that APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. Too bad we didn't believe them sooner! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]


Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org], where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]


I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]


^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]


I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]


The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]


AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]


Don't hate the player, hate the game. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526293&cid=43110679 [slashdot.org]


If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]


">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]


No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto]'s tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]


The thirteenth link is broken. Please fix it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115361 [slashdot.org]


Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]


Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]


YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]


I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]


Can I be in your quote list? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]


Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]


+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]


APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]


Anyone else think that sounds like Ron Paul? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43242417 [slashdot.org]


I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]


You make mikael christ the pet look like an huggable teddy bear - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43242373 [slashdot.org]


oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]


"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]


"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]


"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]


Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]


you have a point - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]


I do admire that level of dedication. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]


I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43250411 [slashdot.org]


I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573571&cid=43251593 [slashdot.org]


Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573679&cid=43252957 [slashdot.org]


Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573873&cid=43255013 [slashdot.org]


Happy now - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43237239 [slashdot.org]


Professional. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255143 [slashdot.org]


I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43256029 [slashdot.org]


extremely bright - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255855 [slashdot.org]


You provide many references, which is good. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43257043 [slashdot.org]


Holy shit - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576121&cid=43260311 [slashdot.org]


this is a perfect example - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578157&cid=43265127 [slashdot.org]


You're my personal hero. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43260747 [slashdot.org]


Obviously very passionate - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43261975 [slashdot.org]


Is that ALL you have to say? C'mon! Tell us what you really think. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43262495 [slashdot.org]


Thanks ... You should probably stay - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577613&cid=43262993 [slashdot.org]


Art? -- http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569681&cid=43244883 [slashdot.org]


PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577639&cid=43263029 [slashdot.org]


I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43264325 [slashdot.org]


PROOF apk is a liar! - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578279&cid=43265249 [slashdot.org]


I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578301&cid=43265657 [slashdot.org]


Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578229&cid=43265767 [slashdot.org]


Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

Disproof of all apk's statements:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040729&cid=40949719 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040697&cid=40949343 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040597&cid=40948659 [slashdot.org]
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http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040425&cid=40946755 [slashdot.org]
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http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40942031 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038601&cid=40942085 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040803&cid=40950045 [slashdot.org]
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http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578709&cid=43268785 [slashdot.org]


* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [google.com] I practice.

Re:Good luck trying to tax me; I'm using a hosts f (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269353)

Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. Why do you mention him so much?

Re:Good luck trying to tax me; I'm using a hosts f (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269423)

It's probably apk posting the messages. Some kind of bizarre false flag operation.

Re:Good luck trying to tax me; I'm using a hosts f (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270751)

Why are the posts of this verminous FUCKER not detected by the site's code and disallowed in the first place? They are all verbatim copies of the same SHIT.

Other than revenue, what's the motivation? (4, Interesting)

Virtucon (127420) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269307)

I am a bit confused since "custom" software may be developed outside of the boundaries of Massachusetts and its utilization, while using a network in the state would already be covered. Network Connectivity is already has taxes associated with it. Businesses clearly pay taxes in the state as well as do consumers. Software companies who write software working in the state pay taxes as well.

This looks more like an starting effort to obtain a franchise or privilege tax for using the Internet not a sales tax of any kind.

Re:Other than revenue, what's the motivation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269417)

"Other than revenue, what's the motivation?"

Now *that* is a punchline to a great joke... now we need a setup...

Seriously, there's a joke here someplace... let's finish this joke!

Re:Other than revenue, what's the motivation? (3, Insightful)

tgd (2822) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269615)

I am a bit confused since "custom" software may be developed outside of the boundaries of Massachusetts and its utilization, while using a network in the state would already be covered. Network Connectivity is already has taxes associated with it. Businesses clearly pay taxes in the state as well as do consumers. Software companies who write software working in the state pay taxes as well.

This looks more like an starting effort to obtain a franchise or privilege tax for using the Internet not a sales tax of any kind.

I believe MA, like CA, only charges sales tax on software physically delivered into the state. Cloud hosted software, even if its "projected" via something like Citrix or remote desktop, doesn't. (So if you buy a $1m ERP system and install it in your business, you pay sales tax on it -- but if you buy $1m ERP system and its hosted out of state and you are using a published application or web browser to access it, you don't.)

And that can be a lot of revenue, especially given the number of very high tech pharma companies and the like. MA wants its sales tax on that $40m genetic sequence data mining system.

Re:Other than revenue, what's the motivation? (1)

Virtucon (127420) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269877)

but if you buy $1m ERP system and its hosted out of state and you are using a published application or web browser to access it, you don't.)

and you are using a published application? That's confusing. The referenced article indicates custom software here. Just because you use something within a state boundary doesn't necessarily mean a sales tax is applied if you use it out of state. I believe that's covered under interstate commerce law. But I do understand privilege or franchise tax for being able to do something within a state. Franchise taxes abound in this country including MA and CA. But if you buy something somewhere else and use it somewhere else, how can a local jurisdiction assert that they can tax you when you use it over something that's already taxed? Again, that points back to a franchise use tax to me because you already pay taxes on your infrastructure/use of the Internet, buildings, salaries you pay for folks in the state. As somebody else commented, they'd tax you for air if they could and this seems akin to just doing that. I think they should be more obvious and tax you on the bits you use on networks that you already pay for. That would make more sense than just using something. As an example if I make a phone call to somebody else out of state are they going to charge me for that even though I'm not a resident but I pay for the phone and service elsewhere? One could argue that Phone Companies (Wireless Carriers) are in the cloud business because the servers that switch my call are in the "network" and even though it's not "Internet" communications, Internet communications can be carried on my data services plan...

All in all, this makes me more assured that I won't do business in Massachusetts, ever nor would I ever be likely to live there.

Re:Other than revenue, what's the motivation? (2)

Grishnakh (216268) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270861)

Just because you use something within a state boundary doesn't necessarily mean a sales tax is applied if you use it out of state.

I don't think that's relevant here; I think they're talking about Mass. companies buying and/or using software (including custom-developed stuff, including custom-developed websites), not out-of-state entities buying software made in Mass.

As an example if I make a phone call to somebody else out of state are they going to charge me for that even though I'm not a resident but I pay for the phone and service elsewhere?

I don't think this is relevant to this tax initiative, but I can see this happening, if the whole internet sales tax thing is anything to go by, because it's a close parallel. Just think about it: promoters of internet sales taxes claim that tax-free internet purchases are unfair competition to local B&M retailers. However, all these tax initiatives have the e-tailer calculating the tax in the buyer's location, rather than the seller's location, and remitting that tax money to that state/municipality, even if it's across the country someplace the retailer has never been. What sense does that make? Suppose there was no shipping possible, and people could only buy stuff in person. So if you're in Maine selling stuff, and someone in Oregon looks at your website, sees something they desperately want, and wants to buy it from you. They have to get in their car or a plane and travel all the way from Oregon to Maine to buy it from you in person. What sales tax is this buyer going to pay, coming from Oregon where there's no sales tax (IIRC)? Simple: they're going to pay Maine sales tax. Sales tax applies at the location of the sale, not the home address of the buyer. It's why so many people living across the border in Washington State drive across the border to Oregon to buy stuff, and drive it back home to WA: they don't have to pay sales tax since there's no tax in OR. So, why don't these internet sales tax initiatives do the same thing: force e-tailers to apply the tax that applies in their own locality? Obviously, this would be a giant boon to Oregon and other states with no sales tax, as sellers would be flocking to those locations, but too bad.

Re:Other than revenue, what's the motivation? (2)

lseltzer (311306) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270033)

Why do they need a motivation other than revenue? In fact, revenue should always be the only motivation for taxes. When the government tries to do social engineering through the tax code they always botch things.

Re:Other than revenue, what's the motivation? (4, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270897)

This is a rather stupid comment: there's no way to avoid doing social engineering with taxes. Whatever you do with taxation, it's going to affect society somehow. Just making a choice between income and sales taxes affects society, and is in effect "social engineering". Sales taxes discourage purchasing. Or how about property taxes? Those discourage purchasing and owning property (and frequently drive people to move to locations with lower property taxes). Most places have all three; how you set their levels relative to each other amounts to "social engineering": should you have small sales taxes and huge property taxes? Or low property taxes and huge sales taxes? Should you tax staple foods or not? Taxing staple foods isn't exactly good for poor hungry people so if you do, you're going to get a lot of people complaining about that.

In short, there's no way to avoid "social engineering" with taxation. So even though it's frequently done badly, an attempt does need to be made to do it well and fairly.


Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269319)

Next !!

corporate tax welfare (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269335)

Rather than a new tax why not get rid of the corporate tax welfare

Re:corporate tax welfare (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269437)

Massachusetts is a leftist socialized paradise, that and corporate cronyism is like stink on shit, you are not getting rid of it.

Now pay up sucka and remember to vote Obama.

Opposite effect (4, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269345)

If approved, the state estimates the tax may bring in a quarter billion dollars in 2014

- right, because taxing something creates more of it rather than reduces its amount.


Most of the tax would be levied against integrators, developers and other companies producing custom software. It's not clear exactly what services would be covered by the tax, but if hosting, bandwidth, storage, security and other services are taxed, presumably the tax would affect any service based away from the premises.

Here is what will happen: Massachusetts will lose some of the integrator business, which will be provided from somewhere else. It's not clear what exactly they are proposing to tax of-course, they have no idea what they are talking about, but they sure as hell want to tax something there and that means raising costs and reducing business activity, whatever they do, they should expect less business, not more. I would be surprised if they managed to collect any taxes from this, they may end up with less tax dollars overall if/once they implement this idea.

Re:Opposite effect (2)

BLKMGK (34057) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269409)

Taxing anything that can so easily be done from elsewhere seems like a pretty stupid idea. It will be like trying to squeeze mercury...

Re:Opposite effect (1)

Skapare (16644) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269443)

New Hampshire?

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269691)


Live free or die.

Re:Opposite effect (2, Interesting)

ChrisMaple (607946) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270103)

New Hampshire is already heavily politically polluted by its propinquity to Massachusetts. Please do not encourage more shit heads to move here from Boston and Cambridge.

Re:Opposite effect (2)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270171)

New Hampshire is already heavily politically polluted by its propinquity to Massachusetts. Please do not encourage more shit heads to move here from Boston and Cambridge.

Statistically speaking, Masshole transplants tend to vote along with New Hampshire values. I realize there are very vocal (and hypocritical) exceptions.

And, yes, I'd about to read the article to see if it affects a colo'ed rack I tend to in MA. It's possible that it makes sense to move it out of MA.

Offshore (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269463)

Because many cloud services are available in more than one state, or have physical facilities in more than one state, questions about which state has jurisdiction and what tax might apply become complicated very quickly, according to KPMG.

Yeah, and how are they going to handle things developed and hosted offshore?

This is just politician grandstanding that will be impossible enforce.

And 4.5% of what exactly - price of the development service? Please, I can have a solution developed for free but with a provision that a (non-taxed) maintenance contract is purchased.

Goofy taxes like this will be so easy to get around - especially for the multinationals.

if anything, Reggy the local retailer will be the ones paying this.

Re:Opposite effect (1)

sfm (195458) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269501)

So how long will it be until business starts leaving MA in significant numbers, similar to what is happening in CA?

Re:Opposite effect (3, Interesting)

roman_mir (125474) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269545)

If somebody wants to start a new business in USA, they should definitely do it somewhere in Texas but even better, Puerto Rico [bloomberg.com]. If you start a company in Puerto Rico, they promise 30 years of no capital gains taxes, that's beside the business income tax of 4% and there is no federal US income tax.

So if you start a company and it becomes successful, you definitely want to be there, you can sell your business and pay no capital gains. Clearly they won't be following MA example with this nonsense either.

Re:Opposite effect (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270189)

Oh, they promise. Well, Im sold.

Re:Opposite effect (1)

roman_mir (125474) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270279)

It's the law in Puerto Rico

The zero rate applies only to income and gains derived from investments made after residency has been established and will last until 2035. Income and gains before residency are subject to the island's 10 percent capital gains, but for investments sold after 10 years and before 2035, the rate drops to 5 percent. In America, the tax rate on long-term capital gains and dividends for the top 2 percent is just under 24 percent.

Re:Opposite effect (1)

HCase (533294) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270255)

"they should definitely do it somewhere in Texas "

Texas already directly taxes computing services.

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43271037)

Basically all of the top tier tech talent is in California, New York or Washington. The vast majority of that talent definitely isn't going to move to Texas or Puerto Rico anytime soon.

Re:Opposite effect (1)

alen (225700) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269547)

so why is it that the high taxed blue states have more people and more economic activity than the freedom loving low tax rate red states?

Re:Opposite effect (1)

jbmartin6 (1232050) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269617)

Well causality is hard to establish for something like that. But I think it is accurate to say that more people means more economic activity, all else being equal. And they certainly weren't lightly populated states until someone came along and raised taxes on them.

Re:Opposite effect (1)

moeinvt (851793) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270131)

More people = more economic activity in general. I don't think you can make such a sweeping generalization either. How is Maine doing vs. Texas or S. Carolina for instance?

As for Red/Blue are you just talking about the presidential election? There are many states where you have a mix of reps, senators, governors and state legislatures, so it's hard to paint a state a single color.

My question to that question is:

If the blue states think their political philosophy and public policy are so vastly superior, why are they so critical of the idea of states' rights? Shouldn't they want to shrink the federal government, limit redistribution of wealth to red states and use their tax dollars for their own states?

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270615)

If the blue states think their political philosophy and public policy are so vastly superior, why are they so critical of the idea of states' rights?

It is precisely because they think their political philosophy are public policy are so vastly superior that they are critical of states' rights

I mean, that's what the original Republicans did. They thought their philosophy of freeing the blacks was just so right, that they ain't gonna listen to no Southern state talking about their rights.

Shouldn't they want to shrink the federal government, limit redistribution of wealth to red states and use their tax dollars for their own states?

Nope. They feel they are so right, that they are willing to put their money where their mouth is, by giving money to the red states.

What *I* would ask is that if the red states feel that their philosophy is so right, why not secede from the union?

And shouldn't they, if they uphold their principles, reject any money from the blue states or the feds? "Don't you dare pity me. I don't need your sympathy"?

It might not be much, but if you give that money back to the feds, it might help with the deficit! Cut spending is the way to go, right? So start with yourselves.

Re:Opposite effect (2)

ChrisMaple (607946) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270591)

Most big cities become big by being natural trade hubs, such as ports (New York, San Francisco) or transportation pinch points (Chicago?). Once established, workers of all sorts are attracted; as they become crowded the middle class moves to suburbs. Left behind are the poor in slums, vulnerable to political envy messages, and the rich in protected enclaves, some of whom lust for power. Because cities are densely populated it's easy to sell the message that everybody depends on everybody else; and because water, sewer and streets in cities are easily taken over or created by the government its easy to believe that more and more things should be.

The geographical advantages and the advantage of making use of advanced infrastructure already in place are powerful attractors that can overcome a substantial amount of taxation and regulation. The burden can become too great, and we're seeing that now in Detroit where the combination of bad politics and the decline of American auto manufacturers is overcoming the advantages of being near Lake Michigan, Chicago, and sources of iron ore.

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269569)

Exactly - CA pretty much destroyed businesses, especially technology work that can easily go elsewhere. I mean, look at what they did to Silicon Valley - there's nothing left and no reason for anyone to go there.

Oops, I forgot - CA's GDP is larger than all but 7 countries in the world, and accounts for 1/8 of the US GDP. Looks like location means more than taxes. More like CA and MA are just weeding out the weak sauce companies (like yours).

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270105)

Sorry slashdot socialist, your information is out of date.


Like all socialized paradises your glory is short lived and finite. See Cyprus.

Invest in gold and lead.

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270297)

The South shall Rise Again!!!

Or something.

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270693)

Wow, talk about weak sauce.

Re:Opposite effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269923)

OTOH, New Jersey implemented an additional tax on long haul truckers. Revenues went down. Seems they 'forgot' that trucks have wheels and could just as easily drive up the Pennsylvania side. Eventually they dropped the tax.

Taxing Tech (1)

Akratist (1080775) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269433)

It'll be interesting to see what happens if we eventually get "chipped" -- would that qualify as a medical device or a mobile device? Etc.

So... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269445)

It appears that Massachussets has a new policy of expelling SaaS and web service business from Mass to other states. Brilliant! Squeeze the tax base, it squishes away to somewhere else.

Damn.. (0)

way2trivial (601132) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269455)

Suggestion to US GOVERNMENT
make it simplemake it simple- Remove cash
make all transactions electronic
take 3% on every fiscal transaction, even allowances

Just get it over with already

Re:Damn.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269549)

If all transactions are electronic, why would they only take 3%? Why not 13%? Why not 30%? After all, all transactions would be tracked, completely under their control, and utterly at their mercy.

In other words, cash is your best friend, whether you care to realize it or not. Even if you yourself bother to use it, or not.

Re:Damn.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269765)

Who needs cash?
Just trade goods and services directly.

I build a website, you clean my house.
I wash your car, you mow my lawn.
I tutor your kids, you provide food for a month.

There's even a few websites [u-exchange.com] for it.
It can get a lot more complicated if there are more than two parties involved, but still doable.

Re:Damn.. (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270325)

Relative value - good website is worth one cleaning or twenty?
Relative distance - do I have to drive to upstate NY to clean your house?
Relative tolerance - what if I won't clean houses/mow/etc?

Re:Damn.. (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269813)

Will you be happy when you are utterly unable to purchase anything which the government does not approve of? Fascist.

Re:Damn.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270511)

Bullshit, boy, bullshit (you work for MasterCharge, I'll bet. Well no, I won't; I see you're only 16). Cash is the only form of money that costs neither me nor the person I'm using it with any extra. I pay for a box of checks, when I use a credit card the I pay interest and the merchant pays a fee. If I use a debit card we're both likely to pay.


The only fair tax is a graduated income tax. Property and sales taxes are regressive.

Harmonising the tax standard ... (3, Insightful)

golodh (893453) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269459)

All civilised countries in the world have a tax known in various forms as 'value-added tax' (or VAT). The US has sales tax. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax [wikipedia.org] The difference between sales tax and VAT is that VAT is levied through out the supply chain but paid only by the end customer as firms are obliged to charge VAT when they sell things, but get VAT tax credits when they purchase.

What Massachusetts is doing here is to bring its tax code more in line with de-facto international standard. Something that will happen anyway over time.

And no, there are no discernible deleterious effects of VAT, and it doesn't affect international competitiveness much (China,India, Mexico, Canada and the EU all levy VAT). So it may be delayed for awhile, but given the current state of federal finances probably not for more than a few years or so.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269609)

Except for a couple things. First, I've never met a European who was happy about VAT. And two, at least in the UK, VAT was supposed to be a replacement for income tax, yet they introduced the VAT and kept income tax. VAT tends to go to the federal level, and sales tax tends to go to the municipality. VAT also tends to be much larger than sales tax, hence why it's considered a replacement for income tax, and not sales tax.

I'm assuming you're European since you talk with the standard "we know everything and what we do is how everybody else should do things" mentality, so you really have absolutely no understanding of a state level anything, though like the typical European, you probably think you understand it better than the people who actually live it every day, because you've read about it in a book. And I also feel the need to note, you've only mentioned that a bunch of other people do it that way, you didn't address so much as once on if it was actually a good way of doing anything. Just that lots of other people do it. And from what I understand, the answer really is, no, it's not. It does create the quite laughable European rush for the duty free shop however and lots of going to other countries where they do their VAT differently to buy cheap alcohol and cigarettes.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (2)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269775)

Having lived in both Germany and the US for long enough to get acquainted with VAT and Sales Tax, the best thing about VAT is that it forces a "what you see is what you pay" pricing policy. We should do that with sales tax (and every other fee/tax non-at-the-register discount).

VAT would suck in the US. They would keep sales tax and have both VAT and Income Tax too.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (4, Informative)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269809)

An important point, the U.S. does not have sales tax, many of the states within the U.S. have sales tax. However, not all U.S. states have sales tax.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270211)

All but 4 states have sales tax. this would be a relevant point if those states included CA, NY, VA or MA.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (2)

RevDisk (740008) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269825)

Every time someone says "We should have a VAT here in the US", my response is "Kill it with fire. Then nuke the ashes to be sure."

VAT is additional paperwork, and bloody annoying at that. Sales tax is at least straight forward, and usually fairly easy to audit. I've heard people say "Well, we can replace income tax with a VAT system." Yea, nope. You'll end up with both. Maybe one or two places went to VAT without an income tax, but in the States, it'll be both.

I lived in Europe. There were many parts I liked. VAT is not one of them.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269961)

there are no discernible deleterious effects of VAT

All those countries with VAT suffering massive unemployment and on the verge of total collapse is of course just a coincidence. Correlation is not causation after all. Clearly what China, Mexico, and Europe need is an even higher VAT. Turn it up to 110%!

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269997)

Since every country in the world, including the countries of Europe, have historically trailed the US economically, it stands to reason these countries will conform to the US's methods of taxation and economics, not the other way around. Regardless, that one country does something isn't any indication that another will. Although, I do agree with your assessment that as the policies of politicians fail to stimulate the economy and tax revenue, these same politicians will seek to increase taxes to make up the difference. Of course, this will only serve to add yet further harm to any already ailing economy.

The VAT is bad for the following reasons:

1. It hides the true cost of taxation, leaving governments less accountable to the people and leaving the people with less information about how much their government is taxing them. This is one of the primary reasons leftist politicians love them so much.
2. It hides the true cost of the good or service being provided, leaving it difficult for both businesses and consumers to make informed purchasing choices in the market. This added inefficiency adds yet more cost to all goods and services subject to the VAT.
3. Applying a tax several times, rather than just once at the final retail sale, adds exponential additional costs and inefficiency to every step of production and, therefore, the final price of the product. This additional cost produces nothing of value and is simply an added burden consumers will be required to bear in addition to the actual VAT itself.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (1)

Specter (11099) | 1 year,23 days | (#43271255)

You forgot:

4. VAT imposes a dead weight loss in terms of record keeping and reporting that's >> than a sales tax.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43271359)

That's what was meant by number 3. Thanks for reiterating this important point, though.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (1)

Specter (11099) | 1 year,23 days | (#43271515)

Yeah, I guess I didn't read #3 closely enough. I left with the gist that it inflates the the overall price to the end user but obviously missed the inefficiencies due to the dead weight loss. Mea Culpa.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (1)

Cornwallis (1188489) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270159)

All civilised countries in the world have a tax known in various forms as 'value-added tax' (or VAT).

Putting the word "civilized" in front of a noun doesn't make it right nor does it negate the idea that the action isn't backed by the threat of force.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270195)

VAT does effect international competitiveness, it helps it.

Imports end up paying VAT, exports end up not paying VAT. Also the way you describe the credits sounds a lot more like what we call sales tax (paid by the end) vs VAT (paid every step where value is added).

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270555)

"All civilised countries in the world have a tax known in various forms as 'value-added tax' (or VAT)."

First, Europe is not "the world standard" as much as Europeans think it is. Second, I don't think people should be taking financial advice from a bunch of broke people.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (1)

MaWeiTao (908546) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270603)

You wouldn't be so keen on VAT if you were paying it yourself. Europeans don't just pay VAT, in many cases there are also sales taxes.

It doesn't end there, many nations also impose all kinds of tariffs on a wide variety of goods for a variety of reasons. Only an idiot wouldn't expect those costs to be passed onto the consumer. In fact, despite the deceit on the governments, they know full well consumers end up paying the tariffs. This is why, for example, EU started imposing anti-dumping tariffs on Chinese-made clothing. They wanted to protect European businesses and knew that this measure would raise the price of the Chinese stuff.

The thing I find amusing is when Europeans bitch about how expensive stuff is but forget that the fundamental cause is their own government.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270919)

VAT is a sales tax, there's no way to tax based on value, value is subjective... so nice job trying to defend a euphemism

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (1)

Corwn of Amber (802933) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270943)

VAT doesn't affect international trade because it just doesn't apply there. That's a very, very profitable loophole : export over half your sales and the VAT office will pay you instead of the other way around. It's been abused in a lot of creative ways, and that's not going to stop, like, ever.

The effect on internal economy is to make a country poor. Can't have a rich country with poor people, and VAT diminishes buying power by its amount. Here in Belgium it's 21% on everything that's not food. Imagine having 21% of your income slashed down? And if your job is selling stuff, you get fucked twice : everything you sell (inside the country) is taxed on the end price, so you're fucked out of 21% of your list price, and then when you go buy stuff, you still get to pay everything at 1.21 times what it should cost.

Re:Harmonising the tax standard ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43271315)

"All BUREAUCRATIC countries in the world have a tax known in various forms as 'value-added tax' (or VAT). What it does is the same thing as sales tax, except that it imposes much more computation work on nearly everyone along the line." There. Fixed it for you!

Ugh, something to bang my head to on a Monday (2)

storkus (179708) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269513)

Unlike most of you, it would seem, I did RTFS, along with the links from it to more stories: it seems that Massachussetts is just one state/location that is doing this sort of thing, along with NY, TX, UT, and Chicago.

Bottom line: they tax software, software-as-a-service (SaaS, a new acronym to me), internet access, hosting, etc; this is just another item to add to the list, in their eyes. At first, I was going to say, "Another reason to use Free Software," but then the enormity of the truth crushed me back into depression: another thing I can't un-see (or un-learn, more like it).

Re:Ugh, something to bang my head to on a Monday (1)

Prof.Phreak (584152) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269639)

Hmm... so a tax on top of a tax on top of a tax...since I don't see them stopping to tax profits, this will be right on top of those (and if you don't make any profits---I guess you'll still be on the hook for this softwate as a service tax).

Totally stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269587)

As a tax paying MA citizen, that's fucking stupid. The article (yes I read it) says so little as to say nothing. Time to vote out the governer and get someone new.

Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (1)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269661)

Then you dont have to tax the shit out of everything

Re:Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (1)

characterZer0 (138196) | 1 year,23 days | (#43269811)

Taxes and services give the ruling class more power. An increased minimum wage would allow lower taxes and fewer services, thus reducing the ruling class' power.

Re:Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270155)

"An increased minimum wage would allow lower taxes and fewer services, thus reducing the ruling class' power."

Higher unemployment? How does that help anyone?

How the fuck is it you seem to link 'ruling class' power' and 'fewer services'? Do you get paid by the pound of stupid?

Re:Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (1)

characterZer0 (138196) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270517)

The fewer services the government provides, the less people are dependent on it, the less power the government has.

Re:Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (1)

GauteL (29207) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270745)

Higher unemployment? How does that help anyone?

Citation needed. Employment and minimum wage is not a straight-forward linear releationship and this is subject to a lot of discussion [wikipedia.org] (I know this is Wikipedia, but you should at least find references to the arguments).

In isolation, an employer is of course correct in that being required to increase the wages would mean they couldn't afford to hire as many, but with a minimum wage being enforced across the market it is entirely possible that increasing it will lead to more people being able to afford the products and services they themselves provide, thus providing a feedback loop to encourage growth.

Re:Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (1)

fyngyrz (762201) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270827)

You are under the impression that providing low wages reduces costs. It's not that simple.

When people work part time or for low wages, they consistently use more services provided by the state, from food stamps to medical care. This is because they can't afford them otherwise. We (including you) pay for this via taxation. When the trend is to hire two part timers instead of one full timer, as does McDonalds and Wal-Mart, or to host an entire layer of low paid employees, this heavily loads the system and taxation increases accordingly (and in my observations, it never goes down again, either.)

But, since the money for these services goes through extra hands (layers of bureaucrats), more of it is skimmed off prior to the actual purchase of service; resulting in a loss of efficiency as compared to the worker being able to pay for it on their own.

There is no free lunch. When you disadvantage people, they're going to turn to other methods that work. You pay for those methods. We all do. Your low wages increase my taxes. I don't look upon that with any particular favor, I have to say.

Re:Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270907)

You know that your comment was nothing more than a personal attack with no semantic value, don't you?

Re:Increase Min Wage to $22 per hour. (1)

ChrisMaple (607946) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270981)

How many people do you know whose labor isn't worth $22 per hour? Most children, most illiterate adults, many lazy people. Should those people be paid more than they're worth? Will they be?
With a $22/hour minimum wage unemployment will skyrocket. The unemployed, some of whom previously produced something, now produce nothing and become a burden on society. With GDP down, everyone becomes poorer. The newly unemployed, looking for a way to fill their hours, turn to destructive mischief, left-wing politics, and despair.

Incidentally, from a historical standpoint unions have favored minimum wage as it enriches unions and increases their political power. Blacks suffer disproportionately under minimum wage laws, and minimum wage laws are responsible for the astonishingly high unemployment among black youth.

If you hate blacks and the poor, love unions and turmoil, high minimum wage is for you.


Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269865)

They can tax my f**king chocolate salty balls cause I store my shit locally. FUCK the government and all their new taxes!

The People's Republic of Massachusetts (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43269951)

Yup - let's all vote liberal socialist, then act all surprised and indignant when taxes are raised.

Re:The People's Republic of Massachusetts (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43271291)

Oh come on mods this is both +1 Funny and true.

And it is not like they will spend it wisely (2)

Squidlips (1206004) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270025)

Massachusetts will squander any additional tax revenues and be back the next year asking for more taxes. The state has an unlimited capacity spend (waste) tax dollars; the Big Dig construction project was supposed to cost 2 billion but came in at 14 billion and is so defective that it killed a driver a few years ago...

Because IT Companies is Massachusetts... (1)

Nova Express (100383) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270185)

...just didn't have enough reasons to movie to Texas [battleswarmblog.com] already...

Re:Because IT Companies is Massachusetts... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270271)

Movie to Texas? Like 'Friday Night Lights'?

Re:Because IT Companies is Massachusetts... (2)

HCase (533294) | 1 year,23 days | (#43270327)

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Texas already has a direct tax on computing services.

Re:Because IT Companies is Massachusetts... (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | 1 year,23 days | (#43271301)

As a Texan (Houstonian), we do not want Yankees. Their like locusts that bring their failed urbanite liberal voting policies with them and blight out the local economy. Besides, they drive like assholes! And the honking is a new thing around here. Six years ago, the traffic was a lot more quite.

Why is the tax so low? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270633)

Why isn't there a standard 17-22% VAT applied here? Or is this on top of that?

Re:Why is the tax so low? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43271011)

Because we havn't QUITE advanced to that stage of STUPIDITY yet. Don't worry, we'll get there. Then the whole western world can be in a permanent depression together.

Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#43270703)

One does not simply tax into the Cloud.

The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin... (1)

RogueWarrior65 (678876) | 1 year,23 days | (#43271047)

The more businesses will slip through your fingers. Seriously, somebody esplain this to me: Gasoline? It's gotten too expensive. Food? It's gotten too expensive. Healthcare? It's gotten too expensive. Housing? It's gotten too expensive. So why the f*ck isn't government too expensive?

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