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The ATF Not Concerned About 3D Printed Guns... Yet

Unknown Lamer posted 1 year,29 days | from the killing-is-my-business dept.

Crime 344

derekmead writes "3D-printing gun parts has taken off, thanks to the likes of Cody Wilson and Defense Distributed. While the technology adds a rather interesting wrinkle to the gun control debate, the ATF currently is pretty hands-off, ... 'We are aware of all the 3D printing of firearms and have been tracking it for quite a while,' Earl Woodham, spokesperson for the ATF field office in Charlotte, said. 'Our firearms technology people have looked at it, and we have not yet seen a consistently reliable firearm made with 3D printing.' A reporter called the ATF's Washington headquarters to get a better idea of what it took to make a gun 'consistently reliable,' and program manager George Semonick said the guns should be 'made to last years or generations.' In other words, because 3D-printed guns aren't yet as durable as their metal counterparts, the ATF doesn't yet consider them as much of a concern."

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344 comments

protect your 3D printer with a good HOST file (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277273)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

apk on 4chan [4chan.org]

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

INCONTROVERTIBLE FEEDBACK PROVIDING ESTABLISHED PROOF OF ALL MY POINTS:

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That was amazing. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]

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My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]

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Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]

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put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]

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Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]

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[apk]'s done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone [else] ever could. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

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Can I have some of what you're on? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40947587 [slashdot.org]

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this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]

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oh come on.. this is hilarious. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]

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I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]

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Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]

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As mentioned by another AC up there, the troll in question is actually a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

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It's actually a very clever parody of APK - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]

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Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]

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$20,000 to anyone providing proof of Alexander Peter Kowalski's death. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958289 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]

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And here I was thinking I was having a bad experience with a Dr. Bronner's bottle. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952247 [slashdot.org]

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Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]

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I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]

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Does anyone know if OpenGL has been ported to Windows yet? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956781 [slashdot.org]

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golfclap - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40900827 [slashdot.org]

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The Truth! wants to be Known! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897389 [slashdot.org]

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DNS cube? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897493 [slashdot.org]

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KUDOS valiant AC. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]

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Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]

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You made my day, thanks! - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]

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Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]

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truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]

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It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]

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Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]

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APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]

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You got that right. I think. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972239 [slashdot.org]

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Michael Kristopeit, is that you? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972377 [slashdot.org]

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ROFL! :) (Now the sick bastard will follow me again) - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429251 [slashdot.org]

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I miss Dr Bob. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432027 [slashdot.org]

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Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]

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Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]

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That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]

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I am intrigued and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555345 [slashdot.org]

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1. You philistine, that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]

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What? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]

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I don't know if it is poorly-thought-out, but it is demented because it is at the same time an APK parody. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832905 [slashdot.org]

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It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]

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er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]

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performance art - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847089 [slashdot.org]

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it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]

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Seems more like an apk parody. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]

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That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]

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Oh, come on. Just stand back and look at it. It's almost art, in a Jackson Pollock sort of way. - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41868923 [slashdot.org]

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Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]

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I can has summary? - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]

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I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41868133 [slashdot.org]

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If [apk] made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41869409 [slashdot.org]

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DAFUQ I just look at? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869085 [slashdot.org]

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Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]

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We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]

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Do you know about the shocking connection between APK and arsenic? No? Well, your innocence is about to be destroyed. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939965 [slashdot.org]

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Send bug reports to 903 east division street, syracuse, ny 13208 - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972783 [slashdot.org]

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Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]

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Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]

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In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]

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You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]

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"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]

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I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]

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Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]

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Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43048291 [slashdot.org]

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Best. Troll. Ever. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]

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I like monkeys. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]

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This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]

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lul wut? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3510265&cid=43057839 [slashdot.org]

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I admire this guy's persistence. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]

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It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]

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Tabloid newspapers have speculated for years that APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. Too bad we didn't believe them sooner! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]

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Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]

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I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]

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^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]

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I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]

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The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]

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AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]

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Don't hate the player, hate the game. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526293&cid=43110679 [slashdot.org]

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If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]

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">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]

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No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]

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The thirteenth link is broken. Please fix it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115361 [slashdot.org]

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Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]

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Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]

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YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]

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I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]

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Can I be in your quote list? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]

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Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]

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+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]

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Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]

--

APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]

--

Anyone else think that sounds like Ron Paul? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43242417 [slashdot.org]

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I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]

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You make mikael christ the pet look like an huggable teddy bear - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43242373 [slashdot.org]

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oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]

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"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]

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"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]

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"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]

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Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]

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you have a point - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]

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I do admire that level of dedication. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]

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I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43250411 [slashdot.org]

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I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573571&cid=43251593 [slashdot.org]

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Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573679&cid=43252957 [slashdot.org]

--

Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573873&cid=43255013 [slashdot.org]

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Happy now - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43237239 [slashdot.org]

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Professional. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255143 [slashdot.org]

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I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43256029 [slashdot.org]

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extremely bright - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255855 [slashdot.org]

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You provide many references, which is good. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43257043 [slashdot.org]

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Holy shit - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576121&cid=43260311 [slashdot.org]

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this is a perfect example - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578157&cid=43265127 [slashdot.org]

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You're my personal hero. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43260747 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously very passionate - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43261975 [slashdot.org]

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Is that ALL you have to say? C'mon! Tell us what you really think. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43262495 [slashdot.org]

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Thanks ... You should probably stay - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577613&cid=43262993 [slashdot.org]

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Art? -- http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569681&cid=43244883 [slashdot.org]

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PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577639&cid=43263029 [slashdot.org]

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I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43264325 [slashdot.org]

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PROOF apk is a liar! - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578279&cid=43265249 [slashdot.org]

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I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578301&cid=43265657 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578229&cid=43265767 [slashdot.org]

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Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42698875 [slashdot.org]

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Don't mention that file. Ever. It'll draw APK like a fly to rotting meat. Last thing I want to read is 80 responses worth of his stupid spam about that file! I swear that cocksucker does nothing but search Slashdot for that term and then spams the entire article. - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3554655&cid=43209619 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 [slashdot.org]

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Oh shit, the hosts files have become self-aware and started hacking accounts. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581857&cid=43276783 [slashdot.org]

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What mad skillz you have!! - http://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581193&cid=43273941 [slashdot.org]

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You are my favorite Slashdot poster. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3580251&cid=43270359 [slashdot.org]

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Most insightful post on the Internet - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3579259&cid=43275207 [slashdot.org]

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [google.com] I practice.

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

Disproof of all apk's statements:

OLD POST LINKS MIRRORED HERE:
http://pastebin.com/8yxcW3TJ [pastebin.com]

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Re:protect your 3D printer with a good HOST file (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277515)

What is amiss with Slashdot's "length of post to display" algorithm?

This is NOT the first time some joker is using some trick to cause way too much text to be displayed in a post before the "Read the rest of this comment..." is displayed.

With this post, I am asking Slashdot to look into their algorithm and fix it.

Re:protect your 3D printer with a good HOST file (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277609)

Send me 10000 Bitcoins and I will have a look.

Re:protect your 3D printer with a good HOST file (5, Insightful)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277671)

As a regular reader and frequent poster, I almost always have moderator points (frequently 15 at a time) and do the "neighborly" thing of keeping all posts in full view to watch for moderator abuse, as slashdot requests. However, if posts like this continue I'll just go back to what I usually do (-1 hidden)

Can we please add a content filter for quick detection and (non-automatic) removal of these posts? Given that he frequently posts just the same crap over and over again, I think it should be pretty easy to set up a heuristic system that would allow an admin to easily spot and nuke these, followed by IP bans.

Re:protect your 3D printer with a good HOST file (1)

postbigbang (761081) | 1 year,29 days | (#43278047)

You have perhaps the fallacious presumption that someone is watching, which, after having been on slashdot on/off for a long time, does not appear to be the case.

There has been the advent of goatse, GNNA, and many others in the sordid history of Slashdot. My advise: this too, will pass.

Good enough for what they are designed for... (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277295)

Where ATF is missing the mark is that these printed guns are already good enough for the planned murder or bank hold up, hijacking, etc, where getting off one or two rounds is all the perp is interested in. In other words, one could make the argument that untraceable guns are more likely to be used in a crime than a traceable one.

Or one could make the argument that I watch too much TV.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (5, Insightful)

MichaelSmith (789609) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277321)

Sure but until local idiots start downloading guns with one click and running them off on a standard peripheral, they won't worry. People with the ability to 3D print a gun can already make all sorts of weapons.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277579)

Sure but until local idiots start downloading guns with one click and running them off on a standard peripheral, they won't worry. People with the ability to 3D print a gun can already make all sorts of weapons.

I believe that is the response the ATF should have made. The problem isn't longevity of the weapon - that is a weird-ass red-herring for them to throw out there. The problem is ease of access. Until 3D printers are as cheap and plentiful as ink-jet printers, they aren't a major risk for criminal usage.

However, when that day comes, the ATF is screwed. They will have no more luck at controlling distribution of printable weapons than the MAFIAA has had at controlling distribution of movies and music.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (2)

koons5159 (626312) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277611)

Yes, but it will always be easier for someone looking to do evil things to buy a gun on the street.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (3, Insightful)

bsane (148894) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277745)

Yes, but with ubiquitous 3d printers, there will be more for sale.

I'm not taking a stance, just saying, easy, non-traceable production will make them much more available. If I had to guess, it'll be a bigger problem in countries other than the US, since guns are already fairly easy to come by.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (5, Interesting)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277843)

Yes, but with ubiquitous 3d printers, there will be more for sale.

I'm not taking a stance, just saying, easy, non-traceable production will make them much more available. If I had to guess, it'll be a bigger problem in countries other than the US, since guns are already fairly easy to come by.

I don't see how. I remember when I was younger there was a local bar that you could pick up a loaded stolen gun for $20. I think you could pay a little more for one with the serial numbers already filed off too. I'm sure places like that are still around, but the prices may have gone up since then. Still, how much does a 3D printer cost? It's going to be a long time before it's cheaper to print a gun than to steal or buy a stolen one.

I would also guess that printing guns is going to leave a trail on the hard drive of a computer. It'd probably be a lot more risky to get caught with a log of all of the guns you sold than to get caught with a couple of stolen ones. Criminals may not be academically smart , but I can assure you they know how to skirt the law better than most upstanding citizens would ever guess.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (2)

ColdWetDog (752185) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277871)

Nonsense.

First off, there are plenty of guns out there. Both registered and not. Do you think it's hard to smuggle a 'virgin' gun into the US (along with tons of cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamines, etc) ? Second, there are tens of thousands of mills and lathes that are tucked into basements and small shops everywhere. Not only can they make a lower receiver, but they can also make the barrel - something that 3D printers aren't going to be able to do for quite some time. And then there is the old dremel tool for grinding off the serial number of a legit gun.

You simply don't need to invoke 3D printers in this argument. They don't bring anything to the table. Even in countries that are more restrictive than the US, a 3D printer just doesn't help you much. Buy a shovel [thechive.com] instead.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

screwdriver (691980) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277919)

I'm looking right now at my 3D printer that I just built for less than $1000. I doubt I'd be able to print firearms with it, but give it time. We're at the very early stages of "consumer" 3D printing and it's very much a hobby at this point, just like PC's were 30 years ago.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (5, Interesting)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277929)

"However, when that day comes, the ATF is screwed. They will have no more luck at controlling distribution of printable weapons than the MAFIAA has had at controlling distribution of movies and music."

Spoken like someone who doesn't know squat about either firearms or the law.

First off, manufacturing your own gun is, and always has been, legal. Anybody can do it. I read a post recently by someone who made one himself. He wrote that it was ridiculously easy. (He made a rifle, complete with rifled barrel, from scratch.)

ATF isn't concerned because it never has been concerned about people who make their own guns for their own use. As long as it's within certain limits, they simply don't care. (You can't make a gun that would otherwise be illegal. You can't legally build yourself a shotgun that is shorter than legal length, for example.)

Even though the lower receiver in this type of firearm is considered by ATF to be "the gun", by far more difficult are the upper receiver, bolt & bold carrier, and barrel (which contains the chamber). Nobody is going to be making those out of plastic any time soon. So there really isn't any reason for the ATF to be concerned, AT ALL. Even if it were possible to make the whole gun out of 3D-printed plastic, it's perfectly legal.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277981)

Spoken like someone who doesn't know squat about either firearms or the law.

Actually, I knew everything you wrote. The problem here is you have a lack of foresight.

The ATF has not been concerned with personally manufactured weapons for the very simple reason that very few people did it. If you think congress won't make printed weapons illegal and put that under the purview of the ATF, you are utterly naive.

As for the upper and the lower - you assume 3d printers are only about plastic. Think of plastic as inkjet printers and laser sintering of metal as laser printers. It took about 20 years for the price of laser printers to get to a couple of hundred bucks, but it did. 3D printing of metal parts will get there too.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277795)

It's legal to make a gun for your own use under Federal law if it does not violate the NFA. Your state law may disallow it.

I have a few guns I've made. Some from scratch some with the parts already made and a kit for the receiver. It's legal. It does not have a serial number. It's not required to have one unless I sell it. I have to be careful how I sell it. Sure it can be stolen and I should serial number it but I don't have to per Federal law and my state doesn't give a rats ass as it's run by adults.

Make guns illegal at the federal level and I will have a mill and lathe and will consider this country dead and make as many as I can and give them away or sell them and build up a war chest of money and guns. I'll become an illegalist who manufactures guns, ammunition and chemicals of various sorts. I will be amused at the chaos I cause as the straightjacket you wish to put on some liberty tightens on all liberties and cackle as you suffocate under them.

I'll be rolling in it but I already am since this administration is the gun sales force of the century so far. I have enough now from being a weapons profiteer on the backs of conspiracy nuts, bubbas, Black Panther Militia members (the internet is color blind) and others that I can buy that equipment and more.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43278027)

So in other words, you're a nutjob who'd give away a gun to anyone just to piss off the gov and watch the world burn as you bathe in the bask of your insanity. You know what I call people like you? Immature.

Why not be a realist and a considerate person for a change, and consider the fact that your liberties are another man's opportunities. And I'm not talking about the good guys either. So unless you're prepared to patrol my neighbourhood every night to make sure no one who legally owns guns, even though they shouldn't, breaks into my house and kills me, I suggest you prepare yourself to surrender your "liberties" or die. And I'm not going to be the one who kills you either, and not even anyone like me. It will be someone like YOU, someone with a gun who catches you off guard and takes their chance and wins.

As the world's population becomes more dense (and there's no way around it) there will be more and more people who shouldn't own a gun. So go with the flow, or be prepared to carry the burden, as one of those who gives everyone the right to own a gun.

There's no Wild, Wild West any more. We, as a species, must get our shit together and start looking after one another. We've grown out of Darwinian evolution and into something else, which we don't fully understand yet, but which is clearly based on openness, cooperation and sharing, rather than individualism, private affairs and alienation. United States is a good example of that - "united" being a major clue here.

And so I repeat, are you with us, or by yourself, because if you're not with us, you'll be swallowed by your own prejudice and shat out straight into the history books 50 years from now. So, choose wisely...

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (2)

ATMAvatar (648864) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277811)

Besides, it's only truly a danger if they can start 3D printing video games.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (2, Informative)

Kenja (541830) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277359)

And one could also make an argument that a 3D printer can not produce anything that I cant already make with tools ranging from a micro CNC to a nail file. There is nothing about 3D printing that makes it any different then any other form of fabrication. It's not even cheaper really.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (3, Insightful)

Obfuscant (592200) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277481)

There is nothing about 3D printing that makes it any different then any other form of fabrication. It's not even cheaper really.

3d printing turns making a gun into a script-kiddie kind of operation instead of requiring some technical skills.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277713)

When did CNC+downloadable AutoCAD files require technical skills?

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (5, Insightful)

Kell Bengal (711123) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277807)

Spoken like someone who has never had to actually prep G-code, fixture a part or debug mill routing. CNC machining is a technical discipline requiring real skill and experience. Experts are paid very good money for their time and talent.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Zak3056 (69287) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277855)

Spoken like someone who has never had to actually prep G-code, fixture a part or debug mill routing. CNC machining is a technical discipline requiring real skill and experience.\

...and once an expert builds out the program for the tool, any idiot can load it and run it.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (2)

AndrewX (680681) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277751)

No, you can't just print out a working gun. Only certain parts are printable, and there's still a good amount of other parts made of metal needed (barrels, bolts, trigger groups, firing pins, gas blocks, etc) not to mention the assembly required, and the money for a 3D printer and spools of plastic, etc. It's a far cry from the 'script kiddie' operation you think it is.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | 1 year,29 days | (#43278011)

A friend of mine saw a demonstration of a prototype 3D printer that works in stainless steel. Additive process.

No not at all (5, Informative)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277765)

You still have to:

1) Own a 3D printer of sufficient quality to make a workable part.

2) Buy all the business parts of the gun. The barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, firing pin, buffer, gas tube, trigger and assembly, fire selector, hammer, etc, etc,.

3) Assemble said gun from scratch.

You CANNOT print a whole gun and will NEVER be able to unless we get metal 3D printers that can make high strength parts. An AR-15 barrel and chamber must survive peak forces of 63,000 PSI. 3D printers can't extrude materials that can take anything near that.

All people are printing now is the lower receiver, and maybe some of the ergonomics stuff like grips and hand guards. This shit is not intensive, nor expensive, to make.

The only notable thing about the lower for an AR-15 variant is that it is the serialized part and this legally the firearm. However that law could be changed, if needed, and then you'd be SOL.

This is in no way, shape, or form a script kidde operation. It is just making AR-15 lowers, something people have done forever. The only reason some geeks are obsessed with it is because they don't understand materials science and think that this means you can print a whole gun.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277967)

"3d printing turns making a gun into a script-kiddie kind of operation instead of requiring some technical skills."

Hahahaha! It does nothing of the sort.

You aren't going to make the upper receiver, bolt & bolt carrier, and barrel out of 3D printed plastic. It just isn't practical with today's technology.

Maybe in 5 or 10 years. Then maybe you might have reason for concern. (Not that I think it's really a concern anyway.)

This whole debate reminds me of the "plastic gun" scare of the 70s and 80s. They were referring to Glocks. Of course, the anti-gunners somehow neglected to mention that even the smaller Glocks, which substantially made of polymer, still have more than 2 lb. of solid steel in their construction. They don't, and never did, get past metal detectors.

Of course, that didn't stop the anti-gun forces from telling us that they would. And they're as full of bullshit today as they were then.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277509)

It's easier for the average idiot to use a 3D printer than it is to set up a CNC mill.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277889)

It's easier for the average idiot to use a 3D printer than it is to set up a CNC mill.

But a 3D printer will get you a bunch of cheap plastic parts and a CNC mill can actually make most of a gun (you'd need a specialized lathe to make a barrel with any degree of accuracy and safety).

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277995)

"... you'd need a specialized lathe to make a barrel with any degree of accuracy and safety..."

Not really. Long ago, barrels were made from straight steel tube, and the rifling was done by hand, with a tap.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

koons5159 (626312) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277511)

EXACTLY... I don't know what the big deal is about 3D printers and guns. Hell, if you could manufacture a gun using a magic wand and sell it, it would be illegal if you don't have a License to Manufacture firearms... Give it up already...

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

I Mean, What (2778851) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277697)

Are you being sarcastic?

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277987)

"Are you being sarcastic?"

I doubt it. GP was quire correct. If you build a gun to sell, you have to have a license to manufacture.

What he didn't say, and you may be surprised to know, is that if you build it for yourself, and don't sell it or give it away, it's perfectly legal and you don't need any kind of license.

not cheaper... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277587)

It's not even cheaper really.

...yet.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (4, Insightful)

gringer (252588) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277771)

And one could also make an argument that a 3D printer can not produce anything that I cant already make with tools ranging from a micro CNC to a nail file.

There are some glue-free structures involving enclosed internal parts (moving or non-moving) that can't be created on a milling machine (or similar equivalent machine such as what you have enumerated), but can be printed on a layered additive printer.

It also has a "one-tool for everything" advantage, allowing you to rapidly prototype and evolve things in a fairly short space of time.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (2)

egcagrac0 (1410377) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277473)

Cheap untraceable guns means little, if the stores are out of bullets.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277533)

because you can't save your brass, and make your own...

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277991)

Right now you will find difficulty in even buying primers. You can save all the brass that you like, Without primers to plug into the brass you're kinda SOL.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | 1 year,29 days | (#43278019)

"Cheap untraceable guns means little, if the stores are out of bullets."

Bullets can be -- and have been -- made out of cardboard tubes, with some powder, and a lead slug.

Of course, you have to design the gun a little differently to use that, but it works.

Just because a certain design has turned out to be efficient for mass manufacture, don't start thinking that it's the only way it can be done.

Plumbing parts, mortars are made of PAPER, sissies (5, Insightful)

raymorris (2726007) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277541)

It's easier to make a gun from only plumbing parts than to fit the metal parts to a 3D printed receiver. The plastic grip does nothing but make it look nicer. Heck, a fireworks mortar loaded with a rock could kill you and those are made of PAPER, so you really don't even need plumbing pieces - you can make a gun from a newspaper. (Indeed, a paper mortar better matches the military definition of "gun" than does a semi-automatic.) 3D printing changes nothing - weapons have been easy to make since bronze was invented

To look at it another way, CNC had the exact same effect - someone with a $5,000 tool could make a more professional looking weapon. Before that, metal lathes made weapon fabrication easier. Same with a dozen other tools. Why did we not hear this fear mongering about home CNC machines, or lathes, or forges, for that matter? Because until the least few decades most people had the basic tools of self defense as a matter of course. Yeah, anyone could make a gun in 1950, or 1900, but why bother? Just buy one at Sears. What's changed is the sissification of the culture. The technology makes no difference. The difference is that today we have a bunch of wussy girlie men who've never so much as held a pistol, and are afraid of what they are unfamiliar with.

Re:Plumbing parts, mortars are made of PAPER, siss (1)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277591)

Why did we not hear this fear mongering about home CNC machines,

Because they require skill to operate.

With more and more parts of the gun (and just about anything else) being available to download over the net, and less and less need for metal portions at all, anyone with the price of a printer and off the shelf software will be able to print and fit together just about anything. The price of 3D printers is slipping under the $1000 dollar mark, $2000 for a good enough quality one for the task at hand.

CNC machines aren't getting dramatically cheaper, or less complicated to run. 3D printers are.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a good idea. Even for guns. The idea that gun tracking is going to cut down on murders is folly.

Re:Plumbing parts, mortars are made of PAPER, siss (2)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | 1 year,29 days | (#43278037)

"Because they require skill to operate."

Sorry, but no.

As someone pointed out above: once someone who does have skill creates the CNC code, any fairly unskilled person can load an ingot, fill the lube reservoir, and hit the "start" button.

worlds apart (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277683)

" The difference is that today we have a bunch of wussy girlie men " - I agree 100% with your statement yet arrive at different conclusion: a bunch of paranoid people who need a gun to prop their self esteem.

Re:worlds apart (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277819)

And you are both about 50% right, as it true with many extreme positions.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277665)

that's not the job of the ATF. you nanny-staters can't even be bothered to understand the role of the federal government, you just whine and cry for more and more parenting. Move to Europe or China if that's what you need in life, they like being the chattel of their gov't masters over there.

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277695)

You watch too much TV. Anyone who can afford a 3D printer can easily buy a gun. It would be easier/better to buy one cash on a street corner somewhere if you want one that is "untraceable". The truth is that all guns are "untraceable" unless the cops get your gun and test fire it. With the exception of some very new (and fairly ineffective) serial number stamping tech, all the cops are going to be able to tell is the caliber fired, maybe the model. Use a shotgun and you don't need to worry about that.

You 3D printed gun is still going to need a metal barrel, and is going to leave a lot more evidence behind when it starts self-destructing on the third shot. Then, instead of looking for the thousands of people in Dallas that own a GLOCK 23, they just have to look for someone with a 3D printer.

No, the real danger (so to speak) is mainly the cosmetic stuff that makes something an "assault style" weapon. You could use your 3-D printer to make a pistol grip and a collapsible stock, maybe a high capacity magazine (but you would still need metal components like springs, screws, tubes).

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (1)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277783)

Anyone who can afford a 3D printer can easily buy a gun.

But can they buy a dozen guns? Or a hundred?
You are conflating the tool that makes the gun with the gun itself.

3D Printers are under 1000, and http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2.html [makerbot.com] >decent ones are approaching $2000.
Mark my words, Soon the media will require licenses to buy, tagging, and federal monitoring of sales. And not just because of guns.

you are imagining things disconnected from reality (1)

rubycodez (864176) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277813)

No, you cannot 3D print a gun. you can 3D print a receiver, but the ol "lock,breach and barrel" you can't.

so anything that comes out of a 3D printer won't kill someone. if you printed a gun-shaped thing you might bluff your way through a robbery, but then a good toy gun or bb gun such as they sold in my childhood would be just as good.

wake up when someone can print a barrel that can take 15,000 to 50,000 psi of pressure and thousands of degrees of heat for some tens of milliseconds. or can print a hammer and firing pin strong enough to dimple a metal primer. or a trigger and sear that could hold that hammer. ain't happening for a long time....

Re:Good enough for what they are designed for... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277961)

In other words, one could make the argument that untraceable guns are more likely to be used in a crime than a traceable one.
 
Make the argument? A better question; can you cite it?
 
You are aware that homemade non-class II or III firearms are legal, aren't you? You know the builder doesn't need to register them with the government in any form, don't you? You know that there are tons of weaponsmiths in the wild today, right?
 
Legal, "untraceable" firearms are a reality today. 3D printing is just the newest tool. The BATF is more than aware of this fact as well. "The People" are so close to making any firearms ban moot except for those that want to obey the law even in the face of a tyrannical government that it's almost game over for the anti-gun crowd. If you weren't aware of the facts listed above but you still feel free to judge and estimate the current gun culture than yes, you do watch too much TV.
 
Oh, and just a side note before someone reads too much into this... I am extremely pro-gun. I have no issue with the home workshop gunsmith. I wish there were more of them, in fact.

Doesn't mean they aren't a concern. (0)

Shavano (2541114) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277297)

How hard would it be to pass a 3D printed gun through a metal detector? How hard would it be to make ceramic bullets to be fired from those guns?

Re:Doesn't mean they aren't a concern. (5, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277353)

How hard would it be to pass a 3D printed gun through a metal detector? How hard would it be to make ceramic bullets to be fired from those guns?

Well, there's still the matter of the metal barrel, the metal firing pin, the metal springs. The only thing so far that has been 3D printed is a plastic frame. That is why the ATF is not concerned at the moment.

The barrel being the big one (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277699)

I have seen no proposition of any non-metal material that could replace a barrel. The stress is too great.

Re:Doesn't mean they aren't a concern. (2)

Psychofreak (17440) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277573)

Why ceramic? Plastic and rubber bullets are deadly at close range. There are youtube videos of people making hot-glue bullets for primer fired target practice. Put some powder behind it and it becomes pretty serious. Why not make a plastic shotgun type shell? Very little metal actually needed...primer...not much else. You can even buy shotgun shells that are plastic except for the primer (although I have never seen them other than target load)

Springs can be plastic (or even air pressure enhanced) if they only need to function a couple rounds, same with a plastic firing pin... The more plastic the less life though. A determined well equipped individual, the person that the ATF is worried about, will make it work.

The reason the ATF is not very concerned is the weapon is disposable. Disposable weapons exist. Making a pipe gun from some plumbing parts is not very difficult. I've seen one demonstrated.

Making a plastic weapon that can pass detection is disturbingly easy. Toothbrush? Stick? Point the end. Pen or pencil? No modification required with a pen or pencil. Pretty single use though.

Lastly the evidence is easily destroyed, unlike a metal weapon. The ATF is not very concerned because it would be chasing their tail to try to track these items.

Phil

Re:Doesn't mean they aren't a concern. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277781)

I accidentally sent a .357 revolver and a box of bullets through TSA security a couple years ago -- In a hurry, I grabbed the wrong carry-on bag for a business trip. I get to the hotel and I have a gun but no clothes (well, other than a leather vest, leather hat, and leather chaps, but that's another story).

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277299)

Because buying a mill, lathe, 4130 and 4340 is difficult?

not surprising (5, Informative)

Trepidity (597) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277319)

There is no actual 3d-printing of guns, yet. What people are doing is 3d-printing one part of the gun (the receiver) whose serial number is tracked for gun-registration purposes. For the purposes of those laws, the receiver "is" the gun: ordering a receiver is controlled, but ordering any combination of parts without a receiver is not. But that is pretty obviously a legal fiction (perhaps an unwise legal fiction): it is, by far, not the hardest part of the gun to manufacture. In fact, 3d printing hasn't really changed the game here, because CNC machines have been able to fabricate that part for years already. Sure, now it can also be done on a 3d printer, which just adds one more way to manufacture it.

From a technological perspective, what would be impressive is if a complete gun could be 3d printed, including the critical parts involved in actual firing. Then you could legitimately say you have "3d printed a gun".

Re:not surprising (5, Interesting)

Nidi62 (1525137) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277383)

CNC machines have been able to fabricate that part for years already. Sure, now it can also be done on a 3d printer, which just adds one more way to manufacture it.

Dont forget you can buy receivers that are 80-90% milled already too. Literally all you have to do is drill a few holes and smooth out some metal, and the blanks usually come with instructions on where to drill too. Much easier, cheaper, and reliable than 3D printing one out of plastic

Re:not surprising (1)

i.r.id10t (595143) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277583)

The law is 80% complete - any more, and it requires a FFL to transfer across state lines.

Then again, there are folks that have made AK receivers out of shovels.... Couple of computer cases would work too.

Heck, I can see a new line of slimline cases - "When the speed is no longer enough and you can't find a mobo that fits in our weird case design, simply punch a few holes and cut out a few notches and you'll have an AK receiver!"

Re:not surprising (2)

dbc (135354) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277401)

There *is* scintered metal 3D printing. http://production3dprinters.com/slm/direct-metal-slm [production3dprinters.com] It is sort of expensive, but I've seen the output. You could print most of the gun, but the surface finish is kind of grainy at present (at least in what I've seen). You would need to chase the barrel with a reamer to smooth the bore and then rifle it, and polish any sliding parts. Also, you'd have to look at material strength of the 3D printed metal which is "hard as steel", but that covers a lot of ground. You might need to beef up the chamber over a regular hammer-forged barrel so that the chamber pressure doesn't give you an unexpected kaboom.

Re:not surprising (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277535)

Actually, there is a gun where all the components have been 3D printed in plastic and it can fire off around a dozen or more shots before falling apart. However, I am not going to post the name, details or URL here. It exists, however.

Re:not surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277859)

I have never seen anyone claim the lower receiver is the hardest part to manufacturer or even hard to. The reason it was selected as the "regulated" part of the gun is because the low receiver in most cases doesn't suffer serious wear. So it will always be the consistent part of a gun. Which if you actually had even the slightest fucking clue what you were talking about you'd know.

Re:not surprising (1)

Trepidity (597) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277891)

That's what makes it it not interesting that someone can 3d-print it, because it's been easy to manufacture for a long time. It also means it's total crap to claim that 3d-printing this piece is equivalent to a "3d-printed gun", as the charlatans do.

Nothing to see here (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277327)

We have always had the natural right to make our own firearms in this country. As long as the person is not making the weapon to sell, then they have the right to do it. If they are selling the weapons then they must register as a firearm manufacturer and put serial numbers on the weapons. The exception to this is if a person has revoked their right by being convicted of a crime. This is not a civil right, this is a natural right. The ATF got involved because there had to be some definition of what constitutes a home built weapon. So, make yourself a gun. You don't need a 3D printer to do it.

Re:Nothing to see here (0)

belg4mit (152620) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277441)

Natural rights are unabridgable, like life, liberty, pursuit of happiness*.
Your right to a handheld explosive-powered projectile launcher is not natural.
It is a right, but it does not come directly from being a human. However it is
granted to you in the recognition that it may be necessary to exercise it as a
last resto to defend other rights e.g; home invasion or tyrranical regime.
However guns are not the end all be all of anything.

* or liberty, equality, brotherhood; or whichever set of similar principles one cherishes.

Re:Nothing to see here (2)

KiloByte (825081) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277575)

The right to a handheld explosive-powered projectile launcher is not a "natural" right, but the right to self-defense certainly is.

The concept of "natural" rights is a nonsense, but this right is something required for lasting freedom, at least without a thorough rethinking of how our society works. And that's a not new concept: for example, the original Sikh gurus realised the need, and disallowed their worshipper to go around without a sword. The gurus failed to envision the need for an upgrade clause, and worshippers follow the letter rather than the spirit, especially to comply with oppressive governments like, say, in the UK where they wear toys instead of functional weapons, but you can't deny the gurus' wisdom, in requiring people to have both the means and commandments to use weapons when needed.

sure it is (2)

Shakrai (717556) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277589)

Your right to a handheld explosive-powered projectile launcher is not natural.
It is a right, but it does not come directly from being a human.

Sure it does. Human beings have been possessing the cutting edge weaponry of the day since the very first Homo sapiens picked up a rock and bashed in his neighbors head. Possession of weaponry is the quintessential natural law right. It can't even effectively be taken away in highly controlled environments, just ask the poor SOB who just got shanked in the prison shower.

Re:Nothing to see here (1, Interesting)

i.r.id10t (595143) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277601)

Is it a natural right to be able to defend yourself? What about defending your family? Neighbors? Fellow citizens?

Re:Nothing to see here (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277657)

Your right to a handheld explosive-powered projectile launcher is not natural.

But it is.

You have the natural right to life. We agree on that.

If you have a right, then by extension you have the right to protect that right from those who would violate it. In other words, your right to life inherently provides a right to self-defense.

If you have a right, then by extension you have the right to possess the means to exercise that right. For example, having the right to free speech means you have the right to own a printing press or an Internet connection. Applied to the right to self-defense that follows from the right to life, this means you have the right to possess an effective means of self-defense.

All people, therefore, do in fact have the right to a handheld explosive-powered projectile launcher.

Re:Nothing to see here (1)

belg4mit (152620) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277785)

Right, I said the ight to bear arms was granted to protect other rights as a matter of last resort.
That does not make it natural or intrinsic. By the logic that any potential means of self-defense
must be permitted, regardless of repurcussions and efforts to limit those, one has a right to
possess an M-28 Davy Crockett. That is of course ridiculous, and I acknowledge thay where one
draws the line with regards to what weaponry is reasonable to permit is a sticky one, but I
maintain that does not have a right to any and all forms of them simply by virtue of genus.

Thank you for the reasoned response though.

Re:Nothing to see here (1)

Nutria (679911) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277743)

We have always had the natural right to make our own firearms in this country.

No. Our ancestors illegally used guns to assert that right against other people with guns trying to assert their dominance over us..

Fast and Furious Franchises (-1, Troll)

CuteSteveJobs (1343851) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277333)

Yep. 3D Printing won't put the ATF out of business anytime soon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-04-27/politics/35454066_1_operation-fast-and-furious-assault-weapons-gun-traffic [washingtonpost.com]

Re:Fast and Furious Franchises (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277355)

So you're against guns being made available to more people?

Re:Fast and Furious Franchises (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277433)

What does Obama giving guns to Mexican drug dealers have to do with mass murderers in this country printing guns? In one case, the drug dealers mainly hurt other drug dealers. Obama has not created a problem with his program. In the other case, the typical white male that is the typically gun printer loves to murder innocent people like in the theater in CO or the school in CT. Mexican drug lords are not a problem, and you are Obama-bashing for bringing that up.

Derp, meet Herp, aka the ATF (1)

girlintraining (1395911) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277367)

In other words, because 3D-printed guns aren't yet as durable as their metal counterparts

Just wait until they find out that the only reason most hobbyists are using plastic 3D printers is because that's the material their prototypes use -- something non-conductive. When they find out that it's just as easy to stick an arc-welder to the end of the arm and crap out metal instead of plastic, they're going to come into all the maker labs that have sprung up with guns blazing, mowing people down while screaming "For the children!". That really ought to be their slogan: We killed you because it was in the best interests of some child, somewhere, whom we'll plaster their face all over the news if you question why we just wontonly murdered fifty people whose only crime was that we felt like killin' bitches.

The only agency more corrupt than the ATF is the DEA when it comes to federal law enforcement agencies. A bunch of over-charged testosterone-filled dirt-bags who go to bed each night thinking they're right with God and kissing a picture of Judge Dredd that they hang above their headboard and masturbate to every morning. -_-

Yeah, I'm being sarcastic. But no, I really don't have a high regard for law enforcement in this country anymore... not when the mantra seems to be shoot first and call whatever you hit the target (and guilty). Oh, and screw asking questions, that would just slow down us chasin' down those big bad criminals that are everywhere. Of course, since we're all criminals under the law... *cough*

Re:Derp, meet Herp, aka the ATF (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277501)

Just wait until they find out that the only reason most hobbyists are using plastic 3D printers is because that's the material their prototypes use -- something non-conductive. When they find out that it's just as easy to stick an arc-welder to the end of the arm and crap out metal instead of plastic, they're going to come into all the maker labs that have sprung up with guns blazing, mowing people down while screaming "For the children!"

Yep. That is why people making and selling these [ar15jigs.com] get arrested so often.

Is it a big deal? (5, Insightful)

AndrewX (680681) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277419)

It's already legal to make a firearm for your own personal use, as long as you're not selling them. Also, it's not like you can print barrels and trigger groups and stuff. There's a lot more involved than just the parts that a 3D printer can print.

Re:Is it a big deal? (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277619)

It's already legal to make a firearm for your own personal use, as long as you're not selling them.

It's also legal to make a muzzleloading CANNON for your own personal use.

Read an article years ago about someone who wanted to do this. Apparently, he checked with the local ATF guys, and they said it wasn't a problem, as long as he didn't try to sell the thing....

Drug War Led to More Dangerous Drugs (-1)

Maltheus (248271) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277421)

The war on guns will likely do the same (as it has already massively increased the number of guns in circulation). As people look for creative ways to skirt the regulations, the weapons will end up becoming more dangerous and easier to conceal.

Re:Drug War Led to More Dangerous Drugs (1)

Anonymice (1400397) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277839)

That's a false analogy. People only want guns because other people have guns. It's a self-perpetuating arms race - there's a demand because there's a supply.

Also, the "War against Drugs" didn't create drugs. The majority of illicit substances were created in a lab, and usually for a completely different purpose to how they ended up being used recreationally.

In the line of fire (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277447)

In the line of fire.

In that movie some uses a wooden gun. Now that is some think that the myth busters need to test will a wooden gun work?

Re:In the line of fire (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277523)

They already made a wooden cannon and that seemed to mostly work.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. (0)

conspirator23 (207097) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277507)

Choose one:

1. The ATF is a bunch of ignorant buffoons. A 3D printed gun doesn't have to last long if you are planning a suicidal shooting spree! Stupid calcified bureacracies are simply incapable of formulating an intelligent and agile response to modern technolgy.

2. The ATF is a bunch of ignorant buffoons. Getting up in arms over some obscure thing like 3D printing isn't going to make anyone safer. Stupid meddling, overreaching bureacracies are simply incapable of forming a thoughtful and nuanced response to modern technology.

Re:Damned if you do, damned if you don't. (1)

Kyogreex (2700775) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277655)

3. The ATF is a bunch of ignorant buffoons. Getting up in arms over some obscure thing like 3D printing isn't going to make anyone safer. But their response seems to suggest that the reason they aren't meddling is that the technology isn't reliable enough over time! They could at least be consistent.

Prohibition is what we can expect (1, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277539)

18th century history shows us when a government wants to control the people, they take away their rights. Among these is the right to self-defense -- the right to weapons. 20th century history shows us they wanted to take away alcohol because people cannot be trusted to behave well with it. "For our own good" it was taken away from us. But people made their own, illegally. They countered the government in rebellion. In secret they made clubs. They organized. They defended themselves with guns... "assault weapons" even. The government realized the price was too high and the people were siding with the criminals. Prohibition was repealed.

The government hasn't lost the people yet. But if history is any model, the very moment the government tries to take too much away is when things will change. Things will have to get very bad before they get better. Let's hope that other countries don't step in as the US government fails. China would be very interested in picking our bones and to desperate people who are defending themselves from our government, even China will appear to be friendly and sympathetic.

The government and these anti-gun fools need to look to the past to see our future.

Re:Prohibition is what we can expect (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277669)

"assault weapons" even

Well, no. By the definition of "assault weapon", there were none available in the 20's.

Of course, Thompson submachineguns and Browning Automatic Rifles (the fully-automatic-only ones the US Army used in WW2 as squad-level support weapons) and such were perfectly legal then, and were used frequently by assorted gangsters.

Note, for the record, that neither a Thompson SMG nor a BAR would be banned as an "assault weapon" under either the old or new versions of the "assault weapon ban" (though the 1832 Colt Revolving Shotgun would under the new version).

Re:Prohibition is what we can expect (1)

erroneus (253617) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277893)

They were extremely powerful weapons designed exclusively to be anti-personnel. It's what I would define as assault weapons.

I have no problem with the definition. A good weapon is a good tool. But it is what it is. To be clear, though, when government wants to hold exclusive rights to weapons or merely "better" weapons, it is the people they aim to limit and control. They want our freedom and they will enough of us to get it. "For our own good" of course.

Re:Prohibition is what we can expect (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277925)

Of course, Thompson submachineguns and Browning Automatic Rifles (the fully-automatic-only ones the US Army used in WW2 as squad-level support weapons) and such were perfectly legal then, and were used frequently by assorted gangsters.

Note, for the record, that neither a Thompson SMG nor a BAR would be banned as an "assault weapon" under either the old or new versions of the "assault weapon ban" (though the 1832 Colt Revolving Shotgun would under the new version).

To be pedantic, the Thompson was actually designed to be a literal "assault weapon". When it was designed in the latter stages of WWI it was billed as a "trench broom"; whoever was carrying it was supposed to, during an assault on a trench, sweep the gun down the trench when they got to it, clearing it out.

Also, high quality 3D printer time is EXPENSIVE! (1)

mikeiver1 (1630021) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277637)

..."because 3D-printed guns aren't yet as durable as their metal counterparts, the ATF doesn't yet consider them as much of a concern." That and it would cost far more to print the gun part using the kind of printer technology that would render a reliable weapon, far more than the cost of the gun one would be looking to replicate. The kind of 3D printers that are required to make the kind of weapons that the ATF would take notice of are very expensive and generally not available to the general public or if they are no business would print the parts for fear of being sued to the poor house. I personally worry far more for our safety at the thought of not being able to have a weapon/s in my home. Criminals are just waiting for that day...They will be bringing a gun to a knife fight and know they have the upper hand. Good times for Jane and Joe citizen when that day comes.

Doesn't quite make sence (1)

BlueCoder (223005) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277703)

If your only interested in crime or going postal you really don't care about long term reliability so long as it can get you through the day. Long term reliability is only a law abiding citizen would care about. So the ATF should really be very concerned indeed.

If it can get to the point that completely plastic Saturday night special can be made and dissolved with just a few common chemicals...

Sounds to me like they don't care about crime... only weapons that can personally hurt them in their body armor.

Re:Doesn't quite make sence (1)

Krishnoid (984597) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277965)

Sounds to me like they don't care about crime

'Saturday night special' is what came to mind for me too. Is it only law enforcement that concerns themselves with gun crime, while the ATF is tasked with issues regarding the guns themselves?

wow... (1)

WGFCrafty (1062506) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277877)

Wow, anthrax that is 20% pure and nuclear bombs which fizzle scare me and guns which work 80% of the time should be of some concern to them.

Besides the metal 3D printer I've seen could spit out air-cooled, motor-driven chain guns! You could just buy or repurpose barrels as they aren't regulated at all. I bet guns made with that machine would be on their radar. Some one who could purchase a few of those, or even just one and some CNC machines could turn out many guns quickly.

It would be cool if in a US military armory you could print your gun and snap it together, and then just store the metal powder in different alloys and the ordinance, and maybe a nylon and a synthetic rubber printer for making pads for stocks, grips, casing. I've thought a fiberglass or carbon fiber 3D printer would be cool, if it was just heat activated resin applied in very thin strands.

ATF had their balls cut off by NRA (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,29 days | (#43277879)

ATF couldn't do shit even if they wanted to.

Ironically it will be the NRA that puts a stop to 3D guns - if everyone can print their own gun, the gun manufacturers will go out of business.

"we have not yet seen a consistently reliable firearm made with 3D printing"

If it can only fire a few shots before it breaks, that's still enough to kill a few people.

What about.... THE CHILDREN? (1)

dtmancom (925636) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277907)

Not their safety, but the fact that 3d printers WILL be in every home one of these days, my guess is within 10 years, and kids will be able to print a weapon whenever they want to.

I am a Marine. I have no problem with responsible adults owning firearms. Bit I DO have a problem with moody teens or curious children being able to produce one whenever they want.

Saturday Night Specials (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | 1 year,29 days | (#43277983)

The 'Saturday Night Special' was the term used for extremely cheap handguns. My father has one that he bought when I was a kid. An extremely LOUD and inaccurate revolver that shoots .22 shorts. I believe it cost him around $8-10 and he bought it by mail order.

The point with Saturday Night Specials, and really the reason for the term, was that they were considered to be cheap fast and pretty near disposable guns.

I would think the ATF would be more concerned about lots of this type of weapon being out there.

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