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The Leap Motion Controller is Sort of Like a Super Kinect (Video)

Roblimo posted about a year and a half ago | from the touching-nothing-but-a-picture-magically-appears-on-the-screen dept.

Graphics 108

What the Leap Motion product (they only have one right now) does is allow you to control your computer with gestures. We're not talking about just jumping around, but "painting" on the screen with your fingers (or even chopsticks) with fine enough control that Autodesk and other drawing-orientd software vendors are working to make applications compatible with the Leap Motion Controller. And game developers? You bet! Lots of them -- and this is for a device that's not even supposed to start shipping until May 13. But, says CEO Michael Buckwald, they already have "hundreds of thousands of pre-orders," so it looks like they are developing a large market for developers (over 12,000 are in the Leap Motion developer program -- out of 50,000 who applied) so it's possible that Leap Motion could become a pretty big deal. (You can see the Leap Motion Controller in action at the end of the video.)

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$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294405)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.


apk on 4chan []




That was amazing. - []


My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - []


Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - []


put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - []


Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - []


[apk]'s done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone [else] ever could. - []


Can I have some of what you're on? - []


this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - []


oh come on.. this is hilarious. - []


I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - []


Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - []


As mentioned by another AC up there, the troll in question is actually a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - []


It's actually a very clever parody of APK - []


Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - []


$20,000 to anyone providing proof of Alexander Peter Kowalski's death. - []


Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - []


And here I was thinking I was having a bad experience with a Dr. Bronner's bottle. - []


Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - []


I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - []


Does anyone know if OpenGL has been ported to Windows yet? - []


golfclap - []


The Truth! wants to be Known! - []


DNS cube? - []


KUDOS valiant AC. - []


Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - []


You made my day, thanks! - []


Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - []


truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - []


It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - []


Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - []


APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - []


You got that right. I think. - []


Michael Kristopeit, is that you? - []


ROFL! :) (Now the sick bastard will follow me again) - []


I miss Dr Bob. - []


Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - []


Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - []


That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - []


I am intrigued and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - []


1. You philistine, that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - []


What? - []


I don't know if it is poorly-thought-out, but it is demented because it is at the same time an APK parody. - []


It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - []


er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - []


performance art - []


it's apk, theres no reason to care. - []


Seems more like an apk parody. - []


That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - []


Oh, come on. Just stand back and look at it. It's almost art, in a Jackson Pollock sort of way. - []


Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - []


I can has summary? - []


I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC. - []


If [apk] made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. - []


DAFUQ I just look at? - []


Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - []


We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - []


Do you know about the shocking connection between APK and arsenic? No? Well, your innocence is about to be destroyed. - []


Send bug reports to 903 east division street, syracuse, ny 13208 - []


Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - []


Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - []


In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - []


You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - []


"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - [] []


I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - []


Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - []


Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - []


Best. Troll. Ever. - []


I like monkeys. - []


This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - []


lul wut? - []


I admire this guy's persistence. - []


It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - []


Tabloid newspapers have speculated for years that APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. Too bad we didn't believe them sooner! - []


Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - []


I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - []


^ Champion Mod parent up. - []


I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - []


The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - []


AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - []


Don't hate the player, hate the game. - []


If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - []


">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - [] []


No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - []


The thirteenth link is broken. Please fix it. - []


Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - []


Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - []




I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - []


Can I be in your quote list? - []


Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - []


+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - []


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - []


APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - []


Anyone else think that sounds like Ron Paul? - []


I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - []


You make mikael christ the pet look like an huggable teddy bear - []


oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - []


"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - [] []


"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - [] []


"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - []
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - []


Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - []


you have a point - []


I do admire that level of dedication. - []


[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - []


I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - []


I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - []


Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - []


Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - []


Happy now - []


Professional. - []


I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - []


extremely bright - []


You provide many references, which is good. - []


Holy shit - []


this is a perfect example - []


You're my personal hero. - []


Obviously very passionate - []


Is that ALL you have to say? C'mon! Tell us what you really think. - []


Thanks ... You should probably stay - []


Art? -- []


PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - []


I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - []


PROOF apk is a liar! - []


I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - []


Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - []


Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. - []


Don't mention that file. Ever. It'll draw APK like a fly to rotting meat. Last thing I want to read is 80 responses worth of his stupid spam about that file! I swear that cocksucker does nothing but search Slashdot for that term and then spams the entire article. - []


[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. - []


Oh shit, the hosts files have become self-aware and started hacking accounts. - []


What mad skillz you have!! - []


Am I the only one who enjoys this sort of insanity? - []


You are my favorite Slashdot poster. - []


Most insightful post on the Internet - []


I read the whole thing *again* just to see if my comment was in there - []


[to apk] So, did your mom do a lot of drugs when she was pregnant? - []


people are looking at me funny because I'm laughing hysterically at what a perfect APK imitation it is. - []


I think he wants it to be an article, but doesn't know how to submit it. - []


Slashdot devs seem in no hurry to fix this problem and it's been driving me nuts. So for anybody who values viewing at -1 and uses greasemonkey here's a Script [] . There's a chance of false positives and it's not the most optimized. But I value not having to scroll through > 10 paragraphs of APK, custom hosts files, or 'acceptable ads' spam. - []
--> slashdot devs are too busy installing itunes for their hipster nerd buddys to sort this problem out. - []


I can't get enough of all of this good stuff! Thanks for the informative links! - []


When threatened, APK typically produces a post with links showing he's essentially posted this hundreds of times to slashdot stories... - []


[to apk] Your post got downmodded because you're a nutjob gone off his meds. - []



Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.


* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [] I practice.


Disproof of all apk's statements:


RECENT POST LINKS: [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []

Learn the TRUTH... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294533)

Mainly in efficiency - it runs in Ring 0/RPL 0/PnP Kernelmode (on Windows), as merely a filter for the IP stack (no overheads of more driver layers OR browser level slower less efficient addons):

21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option [] )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> [] for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions ( via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operations acting merely as a filter for the IP stack (via the "Plug-N-Play" designed IP stack in Windows) vs. SLOWER & LESS EFFICIENT Ring 3/RPL 3/Usermode operations (which webbrowsers run in + their addons like AdBlock slow down even MORESO due to their parsing operations).

7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than remote DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server, typically 30-100's of ms, vs. 7-10ms HardDisk speed of access/seek + SSD seek in ns, & back to you - hosts resolutions of IP address for host-domain names is FAR faster...). Hosts are only a filter for an already fast & efficient IP stack, no more layered b.s. (remote OR local). Hosts eat less CPU, RAM, I/O in other forms, + electricity than a locally running DNS server easily, and less than a local DNS program on a single PC. Fact. Hosts are easier to setup & maintain too.

8.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:

Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)

And yes: Even SLASHDOT &/or The Register help!

(Via articles on security (when the source articles they use are "detailed" that is, & list the servers/sites involved in attempting to bushwhack others online that is... not ALL do!)).

2 examples thereof in the past I have used, & noted it there, are/were: [] []

9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.

10.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> []

11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> [] ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)

12.) With Adblock you had better be able to code javascript to play with its code (to customize it better than the GUI front does @ least). With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).

13.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL (even moreso "automagically" for Vista, 7/Server 2008 + beyond by UAC by default) &/or Read-Only attributes applied.

14.) Custom HOSTS files also speed you up, unlike anonymous proxy servers systems variations (like TOR, or other "highly anonymous" proxy server list servers typically do, in the severe speed hit they often have a cost in) either via "hardcoding" your fav. sites into your hosts file (avoids DNS servers, totally) OR blocking out adbanners - see this below for evidence of that:


US Military Blocks Websites To Free Up Bandwidth: []

(Yes, even the US Military used this type of technique... because IT WORKS! Most of what they blocked? Ad banners ala doubleclick etc.)


Adbanners slow you down & consume your bandwidth YOU pay for:



And people do NOT LIKE ads on the web:



As well as this:

Users Know Advertisers Watch Them, and Hate It: []


Even WORSE still, is this:

Advertising Network Caught History Stealing: []


15.) HOSTS files usage lets you avoid being charged on some ISP/BSP's (OR phone providers) "pay as you use" policy [] , because you are using less bandwidth (& go faster doing so no less) by NOT hauling in adbanner content and processing it (which can lead to infestation by malware/malicious script, in & of itself -> [] ).

16.) If/when ISP/BSP's decide to go to -> FCC Approving Pay-As-You-Go Internet Plans: [] your internet bill will go DOWN if you use a HOSTS file for blocking adbanners as well as maliciously scripted hacker/cracker malware maker sites too (after all - it's your money & time online downloading adbanner content & processing it)

Plus, your adbanner content? Well, it may also be hijacked with malicious code too mind you:


Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing display toxic ads: []


Malware torrent delivered over Google, Yahoo! ad services: []


Google's DoubleClick spreads malicious ads (again): []


Rogue ads infiltrate Expedia and Rhapsody: []


Google sponsored links caught punting malware: []


DoubleClick caught supplying malware-tainted ads: []


Yahoo feeds Trojan-laced ads to MySpace and PhotoBucket users: []


Real Media attacks real people via RealPlayer: []


Ad networks owned by Google, Microsoft serve malware: []


Attacks Targeting Classified Ad Sites Surge: []


Hackers Respond To Help Wanted Ads With Malware: []


Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC: []


Ruskie gang hijacks Microsoft network to push penis pills: []


Major ISPs Injecting Ads, Vulnerabilities Into Web: []


Two Major Ad Networks Found Serving Malware: []












London Stock Exchange Web Site Serving Malware: []


Spotify splattered with malware-tainted ads: []


As my list "multiple evidences thereof" as to adbanners & viruses + the fact they slow you down & cost you more (from reputable & reliable sources no less)).

17.) Per point #16, a way to save some money: ANDROID phones can also use the HOSTS FILE TO KEEP DOWN BILLABLE TIME ONLINE, vs. adbanners or malware such as this:


Infected Androids Run Up Big Texting Bills: []


AND, for protection vs. other "botnets" migrating from the PC world, to "smartphones" such as ZITMO (a ZEUS botnet variant): []


It's easily done too, via the ADB dev. tool, & mounting ANDROID OS' system mountpoint for system/etc as READ + WRITE/ADMIN-ROOT PERMISSIONS, then copying your new custom HOSTS over the old one using ADB PULL/ADB PUSH to do so (otherwise ANDROID complains of "this file cannot be overwritten on production models of this Operating System", or something very along those lines - this way gets you around that annoyance along with you possibly having to clear some space there yourself if you packed it with things!).

18.) Bad news: ADBLOCK CAN BE DETECTED FOR: See here on that note -> []

HOSTS files are NOT THAT EASILY "webbug" BLOCKABLE by websites, as was tried on users by ARSTECHNICA (and it worked on AdBlock in that manner), to that websites' users' dismay:



An experiment gone wrong - By Ken Fisher | Last updated March 6, 2010 11:11 AM []

"Starting late Friday afternoon we conducted a 12 hour experiment to see if it would be possible to simply make content disappear for visitors who were using a very popular ad blocking tool. Technologically, it was a success in that it worked. Ad blockers, and only ad blockers, couldn't see our content."


"Our experiment is over, and we're glad we did it because it led to us learning that we needed to communicate our point of view every once in a while. Sure, some people told us we deserved to die in a fire. But that's the Internet!"

Thus, as you can see? Well - THAT all "went over like a lead balloon" with their users in other words, because Arstechnica was forced to change it back to the old way where ADBLOCK still could work to do its job (REDDIT however, has not, for example). However/Again - this is proof that HOSTS files can still do the job, blocking potentially malscripted ads (or ads in general because they slow you down) vs. adblockers like ADBLOCK!


19.) Even WIKILEAKS "favors" blacklists (because they work, and HOSTS can be a blacklist vs. known BAD sites/servers/domain-host names):



"we are in favour of 'Blacklists', be it for mail servers or websites, they have to be compiled with care... Fortunately, more responsible blacklists, like (which protects the Firefox browser)...


20.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name servers + C&C botnet servers listed in them, blocked off in your HOSTS that is) - you might think they use a hardcoded IP, which IS possible, but generally they do not & RECYCLE domain/host names they own (such as has been seen with the RBN (Russian Business Network) lately though it was considered "dead", other malwares are using its domains/hostnames now, & this? This stops that cold, too - Bonus!)...

21.) Custom HOSTS files gain users back more "screen real estate" by blocking out banner ads... it's great on PC's for speed along with MORE of what I want to see/read (not ads), & efficiency too, but EVEN BETTER ON SMARTPHONES - by far. It matters MOST there imo @ least, in regards to extra screen real-estate.

Still - It's a GOOD idea to layer in the usage of BOTH browser addons for security like adblock ( [] ), IE 9's new TPL's ( [] ), &/or NoScript ( [] especially this one, as it covers what HOSTS files can't in javascript which is the main deliverer of MOST attacks online & SECUNIA.COM can verify this for anyone really by looking @ the past few years of attacks nowadays), for the concept of "layered security"....

It's just that HOSTS files offer you a LOT MORE gains than Adblock ( [] ) does alone (as hosts do things adblock just plain cannot & on more programs, for more speed, security, and "stealth" to a degree even), and it corrects problems in DNS (as shown above via hardcodes of your favorite sites into your HOSTS file, and more (such as avoiding DNS request logs)).

ALSO - Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:


DNS flaw reanimates slain evil sites as ghost domains: []


BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here: []



(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems in code bugs OR redirect DNS poisoning issues, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)


DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that): []

(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles (DNS redirect/DNS poisoning) being exploited!)


Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...

Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...

(So until DNSSEC takes "widespread adoption"? HOSTS are your answer vs. such types of attack, because the 1st thing your system refers to, by default, IS your HOSTS file (over say, DNS server usage). There are decent DNS servers though, such as OpenDNS, ScrubIT, or even NORTON DNS (more on each specifically below), & because I cannot "cache the entire internet" in a HOSTS file? I opt to use those, because I have to (& OpenDNS has been noted to "fix immediately", per the Kaminsky flaw, in fact... just as a sort of reference to how WELL they are maintained really!)


DNS Hijacks Now Being Used to Serve Black Hole Exploit Kit: []


DNS experts admit some of the underlying foundations of the DNS protocol are inherently weak: []


Potential 0-Day Vulnerability For BIND 9: []


Five DNS Threats You Should Protect Against: []


DNS provider decked by DDoS dastards: []


Ten Percent of DNS Servers Still Vulnerable: (so much for "conscientious patching", eh? Many DNS providers weren't patching when they had to!) []




TimeWarner DNS Hijacking: []


DNS Re-Binding Attacks: []


DNS Server Survey Reveals Mixed Security Picture: []


Halvar figured out super-secret DNS vulnerability: []


BIND Still Susceptible To DNS Cache Poisoning: []


DNS Poisoning Hits One of China's Biggest ISPs: []


DDoS Attacks Via DNS Recursion: []


High Severity BIND DNS Vulnerability Advisory Issued: []


Photobucketâ(TM)s DNS records hijacked: []


Protecting Browsers from DNS Rebinding Attacks: []


DNS Problem Linked To DDoS Attacks Gets Worse: []


HOWEVER - Some DNS servers are "really good stuff" vs. phishing, known bad sites/servers/hosts-domains that serve up malware-in-general & malicious scripting, botnet C&C servers, & more, such as:

Norton DNS -> []
  ScrubIT DNS -> []
  OpenDNS -> []

(Norton DNS in particular, is exclusively for blocking out malware, for those of you that are security-conscious. ScrubIT filters pr0n material too, but does the same, & OpenDNS does phishing protection. Each page lists how & why they work, & why they do so. Norton DNS can even show you its exceptions lists, plus user reviews & removal procedures requests, AND growth stats (every 1/2 hour or so) here -> [] so, that ought to "take care of the naysayers" on removal requests, &/or methods used plus updates frequency etc./et al...)

HOWEVER - There's ONLY 1 WEAKNESS TO ANY network defense, including HOSTS files (vs. host-domain name based threats) & firewalls (hardware router type OR software type, vs. IP address based threats): Human beings, & they not being 'disciplined' about the indiscriminate usage of javascript (the main "harbinger of doom" out there today online), OR, what they download for example... & there is NOTHING I can do about that! (Per Dr. Manhattan of "The Watchmen", ala -> "I can change almost anything, but I can't change human nature")

HOWEVER AGAIN - That's where NORTON DNS, OpenDNS, &/or ScrubIT DNS help!

(Especially for noob/grandma level users who are unaware of how to secure themselves in fact, per a guide like mine noted above that uses "layered-security" principles!)

ScrubIT DNS, &/or OpenDNS are others alongside Norton DNS (adding on phishing protection too) as well!

( & it's possible to use ALL THREE in your hardware NAT routers, and, in your Local Area Connection DNS properties in Windows, for again, "Layered Security" too)...




"Ever since I've installed a host file ( to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

"I use a custom /etc/hosts to block ads... my file gets parsed basically instantly ... So basically, for any modern computer, it has zero visible impact. And even if it took, say, a second to parse, that would be more than offset by the MANY seconds saved by not downloading and rendering ads. I have noticed NO ill effects from running a custom /etc/hosts file for the last several years. And as a matter of fact I DO run http servers on my computers and I've never had an /etc/hosts-related problem... it FUCKING WORKS and makes my life better overall." - by sootman (158191) on Monday July 13 2009, @11:47AM (#28677363) Homepage Journal

"I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17, @11:20AM (#38086752) Homepage Journal

"Better than an ad blocker, imo. Hosts file entries: [] " - by TempestRose (1187397) on Tuesday March 15, @12:53PM (#35493274)

"^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730) on Saturday March 05, @09:26PM (#35393448)

"They've been on my HOSTS block for years" - by ScottCooperDotNet (929575) on Thursday August 05 2010, @01:52AM (#33147212)

"I'm currently only using my hosts file to block pheedo ads from showing up in my RSS feeds and causing them to take forever to load. Regardless of its original intent, it's still a valid tool, when used judiciously." - by Bill Dog (726542) on Monday April 25, @02:16AM (#35927050) Homepage Journal

"you're right about hosts files" - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26, @01:21PM (#36252958) Homepage

"APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment." - by Culture20 (968837) on Thursday November 17, @10:08AM (#38085666)

"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

"I do use Hosts, for a couple fake domains I use." - by icebraining (1313345) on Saturday December 11, @09:34AM (#34523012) Homepage

"It's a good write up on something everybody should use, why you were modded down is beyond me. Using a HOSTS file, ADblock is of no concern and they can do what they want." - by Trax3001BBS (2368736) on Monday December 12, @10:07PM (#38351398) Homepage Journal

"I want my surfing speed back so I block EVERY fucking ad. i.e. [] and [] FTW" - by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Tuesday December 13, @12:04PM (#38356782)

"Let me introduce you to the file: /etc/hosts" - by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Monday December 19, @05:03PM (#38427432)

"I use a hosts file" - by EdIII (1114411) on Tuesday December 13, @01:17PM (#38357816)

"I'm tempted to go for a hacked hosts file that simply resolves most advert sites to" - by bLanark (123342) on Tuesday December 13, @01:13PM (#38357760)

"this is not a troll, which hosts file source you recommend nowadays? it's a really handy method for speeding up web and it works." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday March 22, @08:07PM (#39446525) Homepage Journal

"A hosts file certainly does not require "a lot of work" to maintain, and it quite effectively kills a LOT of advertising and tracking schemes. . In fact, I never would have considered trying to use it for ddefending against viruses or malware." - by RocketRabbit (830691) on Thursday December 30 2010, @05:48PM (#34715060)


Then, there is also the words of respected security expert, Mr. Oliver Day, from SECURITYFOCUS.COM to "top that all off" as well:


Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):


"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."

Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!


"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."

Per my points exactly, no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly (& this is one of the later ones, from 2001 [] (but the example HOSTS file with my initials in it is FAR older, circa 1998 or so) or thereabouts, and referred to later by a pal of mine who moderates (where I posted on HOSTS for YEARS (1997 onwards)) -> [] !


"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blocking mechanism using DNS registrars. Once a registrar pulls a website from its records, the world ceases to have an effective way to find it. Shared host files could provide a DNS-proof method of reaching sites, not to mention removing an additional vector of detection if anyone were trying to monitor the use of subversive sites. One of the known weaknesses of the Tor system, for example, is direct DNS requests by applications not configured to route such requests through Tor's network."

There you go: AND, it also works vs. the "KAMINSKY DNS FLAW" & DNS poisoning/redirect attacks, for redirectable weaknesses in DNS servers (non DNSSEC type, & set into recursive mode especially) and also in the TOR system as well (that lends itself to anonymous proxy usage weaknesses I noted above also) and, you'll get to sites you want to, even IF a DNS registrar drops said websites from its tables as shown here Beating Censorship By Routing Around DNS -> [] & even DNSBL also (DNS Block Lists) -> [] as well - DOUBLE-BONUS!


* POSTS ABOUT HOSTS FILES I DID on "/." THAT HAVE DONE WELL BY OTHERS & WERE RATED HIGHLY, 26++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):

  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service:2011 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2011 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP & OPERA HAUTE SECURE:2011 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> [] IN HOSTS:2009 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> [] (still says INSIGHTFUL)
  HOSTS MOD UP vs. botnet: 2012 -> []


Windows 7, VISTA, & Server 2008 have a couple of "issues" I don't like in them, & you may not either, depending on your point of view (mine's based solely on efficiency & security), & if my take on these issues aren't "good enough"? I suggest reading what ROOTKIT.COM says, link URL is in my "p.s." @ the bottom of this post:

1.) HOSTS files being unable to use "0" for a blocking IP address - this started in 12/09/2008 after an "MS Patch Tuesday" in fact for VISTA (when it had NO problem using it before that, as Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 still can)... & yes, this continues in its descendants, Windows Server 2008 &/or Windows 7 as well.

So, why is this a "problem" you might ask?

Ok - since you can technically use either:

a.) (the "loopback adapter address")
b.) (next smallest & next most efficient)
c.) The smallest & fastest plain-jane 0


You can use ANY of those, in order to block out known bad sites &/or adbanners in a HOSTS file this way??

Microsoft has "promoted bloat" in doing so... no questions asked.

Simply because

1.) = 9 bytes in size on disk & is the largest/slowest
2.) = 7 bytes & is the next largest/slowest in size on disk
3.) 0 = 1 byte

(& HOSTS files extend across EVERY webbrowser, email program, or in general every webbound program you use & thus HOSTS are "global" in coverage this way AND function on any OS that uses the BSD derived IP stack (which most all do mind you, even MS is based off of it, as BSD's IS truly, "the best in the business"), & when coupled with say, IE restricted zones, FireFox addons like NoScript &/or AdBlock, or Opera filter.ini/urlfilter.ini, for layered security in this capacity for webbrowsers & SOME email programs (here, I mean ones "built into" browsers themselves like Opera has for example))

MS has literally promoted bloat in this file, making it load slower from disk, into memory! This compounds itself, the more entries your HOSTS file contains... & for instance? Mine currently contains nearly 654,000 entries of known bad adbanners, bad websites, &/or bad nameservers (used for controlling botnets, misdirecting net requests, etc. et al).

Now, IF I were to use My "huge" HOSTS file would be approximately 27mb in size... using (next smallest) it would be 19mb in size - HOWEVER? Using 0 as my blocking IP, it is only 14mb in size. See my point?

(For loads either in the local DNS cache, or system diskcache if you run w/out the local DNS client service running, this gets slower the larger each HOSTS file entry is (which you have to stall the DNS client service in Windows for larger ones, especially if you use a "giant HOSTS file" (purely relative term, but once it goes over (iirc) 4mb in size, you have to cut the local DNS cache client service)))

NO questions asked - the physics of it backed me up in theory alone, but when I was questioned on it for PROOF thereof?

I wrote a small test program to load such a list into a "pascal record" (which is analagous to a C/C++ structure), which is EXACTLY what the DNS client/DNS API does as well, using a C/C++ structure (basically an array of sorts really, & a structure/record is a precursor part to a full-blown CLASS or OBJECT, minus the functions built in, this is for treating numerous variables as a SINGLE VARIABLE (for efficiency, which FORTRAN as a single example, lacks as a feature, @ least Fortran 77 did, but other languages do not))!

I even wrote another that just loaded my HOSTS file's entirety into a listbox, same results... slowest using, next slowest using, & fastest using 0.

And, sure: Some MORE "goes on" during DNS API loads (iirc, removal of duplicated entries (which I made sure my personal copy does not have these via a program I wrote to purge it of duplicated entries + to sort each entry alphabetically for easier mgt. via say, notepad.exe) & a conversion from decimal values to hex ones), but, nevertheless? My point here "holds true", of slower value loads, record-by-record, from a HOSTS file, when the entries become larger.

So, to "prove my point" to my naysayers?

I timed it using the Win32 API calls "GetTickCount" & then again, using the API calls of "QueryPerformanceCounter" as well, seeing the SAME results (a slowdown when reading in this file from disk, especially when using the larger or line item entries in a HOSTS file, vs. the smaller/faster/more efficient 0).

In my test, I saw a decline in speed/efficiency in my test doing so by using larger blocking addresses ( &/or, vs. the smallest/fastest in 0)... proving me correct on this note!

On this HOSTS issue, and the WFP design issue in my next post below?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> [] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I am convinced they (MS) do NOT have a good reason for doing this... because of their lack of response there on this note. Unless it has something to do with IPv6 (most folks use IPv4 still), I cannot understand WHY this design mistake imo, has occurred, in HOSTS files...


2.) The "Windows Filtering Platform", which is now how the firewall works in VISTA, Server 2008, & Windows 7...

Sure it works in this new single point method & it is simple to manage & "sync" all points of it, making it easier for network techs/admins to manage than the older 3 part method, but that very thing works against it as well, because it is only a single part system now!

Thus, however?

This "single layer design" in WFP, now represents a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE/ATTACK for malware makers to 'take down'!

(Which is 1 of the 1st things a malware attempts to do, is to take down any software firewalls present, or even the "Windows Security Center" itself which should warn you of the firewall "going down", & it's fairly easy to do either by messaging the services they use, or messing up their registry init. settings)

VS. the older (up to) 3 part method used in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, for protecting a system via IP Filtering, the Windows native Firewall, &/or IPSEC. Each of which uses diff. drivers, & layers of the IP stack to function from, as well as registry initialization settings.

Think of the older 3 part design much the same as the reason why folks use door handle locks, deadbolt locks, & chain locks on their doors... multipart layered security.

(Each of which the latter older method used, had 3 separate drivers & registry settings to do their jobs, representing a "phalanx like"/"zone defense like" system of backup of one another (like you see in sports OR ancient wars, and trust me, it WORKS, because on either side of yourself, you have "backup", even if YOU "go down" vs. the opponent)).

I.E.-> Take 1 of the "older method's" 3 part defenses down? 2 others STILL stand in the way, & they are not that simple to take them ALL down...

(Well, @ least NOT as easily as "taking out" a single part defensive system like WFP (the new "Windows Filtering Platform", which powers the VISTA, Windows Server 2008, & yes, Windows 7 firewall defense system)).

On this "single-part/single-point of attack" WFP (vs. Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003's IP stack defense design in 3-part/zone defense/phalanx type arrangement) as well as the HOSTS issue in my post above?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> [] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I'll stick to my thoughts on it, until I am shown otherwise & proven wrong.


Following up on what I wrote up above, so those here reading have actual technical references from Microsoft themselves ("The horses' mouth"), in regards to the Firewall/PortFilter/IPSec designs (not HOSTS files, that I am SURE I am correct about, no questions asked) from my "Point #2" above?

Thus, I'll now note how:


1.) TCP/IP packet processing paths differences between in how Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 did it (IPSEC.SYS (IP Security Policies), IPNAT.SYS (Windows Firewall), IPFLTDRV.SYS (Port Filtering), & TCPIP.SYS (base IP driver))...

2.) AND, how VISTA/Server 2008/Windows 7 do it now currently, using a SINGLE layer (WFP)...


First off, here is HOW it worked in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 - using 3 discrete & different drivers AND LEVELS/LAYERS of the packet processing path they worked in: []

The Cable Guy - June 2005: TCP/IP Packet Processing Paths


The following components process IP packets:

IP forwarding Determines the next-hop interface and address for packets being sent or forwarded.

TCP/IP filtering Allows you to specify by IP protocol, TCP port, or UDP port, the types of traffic that are acceptable for incoming local host traffic (packets destined for the host). You can configure TCP/IP filtering on the Options tab from the advanced properties of the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) component in the Network Connections folder.

* "Here endeth the lesson..." and, if you REALLY want to secure your system? Please refer to this: []

APK [mailto]

P.S.=> SOME MINOR "CAVEATS/CATCH-22's" - things to be aware of for "layered security" + HOSTS file performance - easily overcome, or not a problem at all:

A.) HOSTS files don't function under PROXY SERVERS (except for Proximitron, which has a filter that allows it) - Which is *the "WHY"* of why I state in my "P.S." section below to use both AdBlock type browser addon methods (or even built-in block lists browsers have such as Opera's URLFILTER.INI file, & FireFox has such as list as does IE also in the form of TPL (tracking protection lists -> [] , good stuff )) in combination with HOSTS, for the best in "layered security" (alongside .pac files + custom cascading style sheets that can filter off various tags such as scripts or ads etc.) - but proxies, especially "HIGHLY ANONYMOUS" types, generally slow you down to a CRAWL online (& personally, I cannot see using proxies "for the good" typically - as they allow "truly anonymous posting" & have bugs (such as TOR has been shown to have & be "bypassable/traceable" via its "onion routing" methods)).

B.) HOSTS files do NOT protect you vs. javascript (this only holds true IF you don't already have a bad site blocked out in your HOSTS file though, & the list of sites where you can obtain such lists to add to your HOSTS are above (& updated daily in many of them)).

C.) HOSTS files (relatively "largish ones") require you to turn off Windows' native "DNS local client cache service" (which has a problem in that it's designed with a non-redimensionable/resizeable list, array, or queue (DNS data loads into a C/C++ structure actually/afaik, which IS a form of array)) - covers that in detail and how to easily do this in Windows (this is NOT a problem in Linux, & it's 1 thing I will give Linux over Windows, hands-down). Relatively "smallish" HOSTS files don't have this problem ( offers 2 types for this).

D.) HOSTS files, once read/loaded, once? GET CACHED! Right into the kernelmode diskcaching subsystem (fast & efficient RAM speed), for speed of access/re-access (@ system startup in older MS OS' like 2000, or, upon a users' 1st request that's "Webbound" via say, a webbrowser) gets read into either the DNS local caching client service (noted above), OR, if that's turned off? Into your local diskcache (like ANY file is), so it reads F A S T upon re-reads/subsequent reads (until it's changed in %WinDir%\system32\drivers\etc on Windows, which marks it "Dirty" & then it gets re-read + reloaded into the local diskcache again). This may cause a SMALL initial load 1 time lag upon reload though, depending on the size of your HOSTS file.

E.) HOSTS files don't protect vs. BGP exploits - Sorry, once it's out of your hands/machine + past any interior network + routers you have, the packets you send are out there into the ISP/BSP's hands - they're "the Agents" holding all the keys to the doorways at that point (hosts are just a forcefield-filter (for lack of a better description) armor on what can come in mostly, & a bit of what can go out too (per point #20 above on "locking in malware")). Hosts work as a "I can't get burned if I can't go into the kitchen" protection, for you: Not your ISP/BSP. It doesn't extend to them

F.) HOSTS files don't protect vs. IP addressed adbanners (rare) &/or IP address utilizing malwares (rare too, most used domain/host names because they're "RECYCLABLE/REUSEABLE"), so here, you must couple HOSTS files w/ firewall rules tables (either in software firewalls OR router firewall rules table lists)... apk

You've attempted to impersonate me... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294603)

Nearly 150++ times that I know of @ this point for all of March 2013 so far, & others here have told you to stop - take the hint, lunatic (leave slashdot)...

Sorry folks - but whoever the nutjob is that's attempting to impersonate me, & upset the rest of you as well, has SERIOUS mental issues, no questions asked! I must've gotten the better of him + seriously "gotten his goat" in doing so in a technical debate & his "geek angst" @ losing to me has him doing the:


A.) $10,000 challenges, ala (where the imposter actually TRACKED + LISTED the # of times he's done this no less, & where I get the 150 or so times I noted above) -> []


B.) Reposting OLD + possibly altered models - like this one I am replying to (this I haven't checked on as to altering the veracity of the info. being changed) of posts of mine from the past here


(Albeit massively repeatedly thru all threads on /. this March 2013 nearly in its entirety thusfar).

* Personally, I'm surprised the moderation staff here hasn't just "blocked out" his network range yet honestly!

(They know it's NOT the same as my own as well, especially after THIS post of mine, which they CAN see the IP range I am coming out of to compare with the ac spamming troll doing the above...).


P.S.=> Again/Stressing it: NO guys - it is NOT me doing it, as I wouldn't waste that much time on such trivial b.s. like a kid might...

Plus, I only post where hosts file usage is on topic or appropriate for a solution & certainly NOT IN EVERY POST ON SLASHDOT (like the nutcase trying to "impersonate me" is doing for nearly all of March now, & 140++ times that I know of @ least)... apk

Re:You've attempted to impersonate me... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294631)

Who are you and why are you posting this shit to slashdot?

Re:You've attempted to impersonate me... apk (1)

ironicsky (569792) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295797)

its a spam bot, best I can tell - its been posting it as first post to almost every article I've read on /. the last couple of days.

Hopefully the fine folks over at /. or Dice get around to blocking it sooner than later

Jeremiah Cornelius: YOU disappoint me... apk (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43298161)

You're "caught red-handed" Jeremiah Cornelius -> []

I wrote ALL ABOUT IT (& why you're doing it), here -> []

* DO YOURSELF, and the rest of us, A GIANT FAVOR MAN:

Seek professional psychiatric help!

(Since you obviously can't get over the fact you made a spelling error on what it is YOU ALLEGEDLY DID FOR A LIVING? That's not MY fault... it's YOURS!)


P.S.=> I seriously must have dusted JC (in his mind @ least) for his BAD spelling error & it "got his goat"...

I.E.-> Catching what he claimed to do as a job, for YEARS he left "PENETRATION" spelled as "PENTRATION" on his resume on LinkedIn & I pointed it out as he & his friends trolled me as usual (webmistressrachel, gmhowell, & crew (probably ALL JC no doubt using alterate emails or TOR to do it as a possible - I've caught "them & theirs" doing it before, ala Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person))).

So THAT is what has gotten his goat in a technical debate & his "geek angst" could only come up with *trying* to "impersonate me" in every news thread on /. for the month of March 2013 so far!

(Just to attempt to 'discredit me' as a spammer here obviously)

Doing so, by posting that 10,000 challenge &/or reposts of my old posts on hosts file value to end users into EVERY SINGLE NEWS ARTICLE POSTED on /. ...

It's all I can think of that *might* cause such a mentally trouble 'reaction' like the Jeremiah Cornelius is doing!

... apk

Looks promising. (4, Insightful)

P-niiice (1703362) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294419)

Seems like a huge missed opportunity for Microsoft.

Re:Looks promising. (5, Funny)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294565)

It could explain why all the people one the Microsoft Surface commercials look like they're having grand mal seizures.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Grizzley9 (1407005) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295061)

How do you have something like the Kinect and not have patents all over something related that basically would prevent this, or at least cause it to have to license numerous patents? Missed opportunity indeed.

Also, am I the only one that thought this was from the kids' toy mfg Leapfrog?

Re:Looks promising. (4, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298065)

"How do you have something like the Kinect and not have patents all over something related that basically would prevent this, or at least cause it to have to license numerous patents? Missed opportunity indeed."

I am in the Leap developer program and I have one. But I am not an expert on the Kinect. From what I understand, the Kinect uses cameras and visible light to do passive motion detection. The Leap works very differently. It uses active infrared signals and a pair of infrared detectors to do its magic. Unlike the Kinect, its active area is limited to just above the desktop. But also unlike Kinect, they claim precision down to a few microns. I haven't tried to measure the accuracy of mine, but it's pretty darned accurate.

Also, using the SDK, you can (A) detect all 10 fingers, (B) the position of each finger, (C) the direction each finger is pointing, (D) the position and orientation of the palm, and (E) the relative curvature of the palm (e.g., the diameter of an imaginary ball in your hand).

It's pretty impressive. The question is how well it will be integrated into software. Like any "alternative" controller, implementation in an individual application might be sad or might be great. There is no way to tell in advance, and I am sure we will see some of each.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

michaelbuddy (751237) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300103)

If I was drawing in the air with a pencil or something, how does it know when I'm drawing or not? is there an engage button we can assign to keyboard key?

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300443)

it's a 2 foot cube of work space so it's just set to draw once you pass a certain distance in the z direction.

Re:Looks promising. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43300501)

... From what I understand, the Kinect uses cameras and visible light to do passive motion detection. ...

The Kinect is both:
- passive, when using visible light to get a "normal" image, and
- active, when using an active infrared signal to get a depth image.
- this video (among many others) to see what the infrared signal looks like:
- this discussion to know how it works (and how it does not work):

Re:Looks promising. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43300439)

maybe they arn't evil talentless hacks that just steal everybody elses ideas and patent them. wait this is microsoft they eat babies.

Re:Looks promising. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43295433)

Kinect itself was a huge missed opportunity.

Every time the devs had done anything remotely good with it, the features always get axed because... god knows why, the damn thing already costs a lot of money anyway, those extra features aren't going to put the price through the roof, the research was already done!

Microsoft destroyed what Kinect could have become.
And likely are killing what the next main iteration of it will be. (in fact, I think they already have done recently, didn't they just remove the ability for it to detect intricate hand gestures?)

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296197)

Wait they did? Seriously?

Because the first thing - the very first thing I try to do with the kinect everytime is use a closed fist or rotating hand action to try and control something, and then get frustrated when I can't.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Bobfrankly1 (1043848) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296783)

Wait they did? Seriously?

Because the first thing - the very first thing I try to do with the kinect everytime is use a closed fist or rotating hand action to try and control something, and then get frustrated when I can't.

We've all been there dude. =D

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300497)

The kinect is attacking the problem from a slightly different direction, which does mean less accuracy in the beginning but it'll pay off in the end. What the story fails to mention (on this 6 month old story) is the leap only works in a 2 foot cube above the device, and the tech used means it's quite difficult to expand that bubble (although you can link multiple leaps together it still needs to be beanth you and it only works 2 foot high). What the kinect did was develop a system to compute the whole room then they will work on increasing accuracy with v2 and beyond (potentially meaning a much more versatile product).

Re:Looks promising. (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296293)

kinnect was a huge success sales wise and the next version "looks" like they could be ready to continue that. Yes the games were crap for it on the 360 but most of that should improve on the next xbox. Really I think the leap is very much like kinnect V1, way to many limitations in the product for it to be more than a gimmic on this first iteration. Where as kinnect was limited in accuracy, leap is extremely limited in range making these really too different focus markets.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

jharriman (2877515) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296599)

I'm going with the DUO for a couple of reasons. LEAP has been at this for how long now, and they still don't really have a product widely available; the DUO guys seem to be ready to go *today*. And while LEAK doesn't have any plans to produce an open source driver so that I can use this device and do my own processing of the data, the DUO guys say their driver will be open source. Indeed, their hardware will be licensed under Creative Commons. I voted with my wallet - DUO []

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298115)

"I'm going with the DUO for a couple of reasons. LEAP has been at this for how long now, and they still don't really have a product widely available; the DUO guys seem to be ready to go *today*. And while LEAK doesn't have any plans to produce an open source driver so that I can use this device and do my own processing of the data, the DUO guys say their driver will be open source. Indeed, their hardware will be licensed under Creative Commons."

The LEAP and the DUO are two completely different kinds of devices. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Re:Looks promising. (3, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298557)

I've checked it out some on their website. What you say is far from true.

The DUO guys aren't "ready to go *today*" at all! They're still in early development! They are WAY behind the LEAP.

This is what I learned from their website:

(A) They haven't decided (or announced) the degree to which it will be open source. They said so in a forum on their own website. So that part is still very much up in the air.

(B) DUO just finished building their development prototype. LEAP has had actual development units out for months. They have gone through 4 physical revisions, and many firmware revisions. Many developers have been actively developing for the LEAP for that same period. I happen to know because (disclaimer) I happen to be one of them. Nevertheless, I am not terribly biased toward the LEAP. I am simply reporting the facts as I see them.

(C) The LEAP looks pretty nice and it is small. The DUO looks about 3 or 4 times as big, has cameras awkwardly sticking out of it, and looks cheap. Yet for some reason getting on the bandwagon even during the development stage costs almost 2 times the retail price of a LEAP? Say what?

(D) While they make claims of high accuracy and low latency, I don't see any numbers anywhere. I'll believe that when I see it.

All in all, at this stage of the game, the LEAP has a hell of a lot going for it that the DUO lacks. Maybe it will be better in the long run. Maybe it will be open source. But neither of those things is anywhere near certain yet.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

avxo (861854) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300451)

All they need is the funding to get the first of devices built - devices they plan on shipping as soon as they can assemble them. Look at the Kickstarter. Something tells me that the DUO will be more widely available before the LEAP, despite the "headstart" that LEAP has - they've been at this for how long now and all they have to show is a pretty webpage and a press onslaught in response to a Kickstarter project.

You can argue that the price of the DUO is high, but the DUO guys aren't funded by venture capitalists and are trying to put out an open solution with Creative Commons licensed components and drivers for Linux. The LEAP guys got a few million and spent a ton of money designing a fancy enclosure and have been limiting who can access the SDK. Perpahsp you like that sort of thing - fancy enclosures and limited access. But working hardware, that I can tweak is more important to me.

They aren't just making claims - a simpe look through their videos demostrates that the device has ridiculously low latency - check out this Youtube Video [] recorded at 240 frames per second and see how accurately the tracking is. As for hard numbers, I'm curious exactly what numbers you're looking for? What units would such accuracy numbers be reported in? I tried a LEAP first hand, and it doesn't seem nearly as fast or as precise.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300587)

yeah but the leap only works in a 2 foot cube above the device, the duo should be able to do whole rooms without breaking a sweat.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298323)

Pardon me. I hadn't seen the one you were referring to. I thought you meant the DUO game controller, which is a completely different animal.

I hadn't heard about the DUO before. I'm checking it out.

Not if MSFT/Windows supports it (1)

schlachter (862210) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296865)

If OEMs start incorporating it into their PCs and MSFT/Windows supports it...I'm sure Windows will be fine.

Re:Looks promising. (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300425)

Come to /. home of the really fresh and current tech news (that may have been around for over 6 months).

I like that keyboards require deliberate action. (3, Interesting)

concealment (2447304) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294437)

While I'm all for new and exciting technology, I'm not sure I like having cameras around that can be hacked, and visual interfaces that may record motions I make that I do not intend to go into a computer.

The simplest example would be idly picking my nose, and then coming back later to find those exciting strokes recorded. For those of you who are pornography enthusiasts, a similar problem exists.

Although keyboards are arguably pretty bad, they don't interpret my actions for me. I have to deliberately seek out the keyboard and type on it. It can't watch me or misinterpret me.

Now my only enemy is my own tendency toward tyops and speeling errors.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294543)


Because once attached to your computer, it can never be removed, disabled, or turned off.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43299573)

Never actually used one, eh? The camera built into my laptop most certainly can be turned off or completely disabled. It also has a little LED next to it that lights when it's active, so it's easy to know when it's on.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (2)

i kan reed (749298) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294595)

Virtually every laptop sold in the country has a built-in camera. What's the distinction of this?

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294737)

Speed and accuracy without crushing your cpu. Also, the FOV isn't static w/ respect to your monitor.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294745)

With respect to watching you without your permission due to unspecified hax.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300659)

OH NO, the guys at leap motion know can figure out what hand size the owner has. Don't worry that google reads all your emails and tracks web page vists, your phone with GPS and camera is taken with you everywhere, and facebook knows more about you than your mother.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (2)

vux984 (928602) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295367)

Virtually every laptop sold in the country has a built-in camera. What's the distinction of this?

It's not normally on. As soon as you make the camera an always on input method, then well.. its always on.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295597)

Fair enough, I can't really deny that. But the default behavior is not to record, so it still requires external intervention to spy, which is exactly what is requisite for current technology. The only discernible difference is a little green LED.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

vux984 (928602) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295889)

The only discernible difference is a little green LED.

That little green LED tells me whether or not I'm potentially being recorded. If its on, and I'm not in a video call, something is wrong and I'm very suspicious.

With an always on camera trained on you, an LED would be meaningless -- if it existed it's always on. So you will never know if you are being recorded or not.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

Dins (2538550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295991)

Call me paranoid, but I just put a small piece of black electrical tape over the camera. Can't really even see it against my black laptop, and I KNOW the camera isn't recording me.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (2)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296213)

Yeah, it would be terrible if videos of you picking your nose went up on the internet. As opposed to your bank account passwords, credit card details, actual pornography habits and home address and real name - because if someone can hack the camera its far easier to just log keystrokes and take a screen grab of your desktop every minute.

Talk about identifying the wrong the problem.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (2)

Dins (2538550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296939)

Right. But it's far quicker and easier to address the camera issue with a small piece of tape that will solve the problem (or lack thereof, granted) permanently in less than a minute than it is to satisfactorily address the other issues you mention.

Jeeze people, lighten up...

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296283)

Yes, that's actually somewhat consistent with paranoid personality disorder. But there's more than one symptom to that, and it would be insanity to diagnose a stranger on the internet from 2 sentences.

Nose picking porn (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294803)

If I could idly pick my nose I wouldn't need to be a pornography enthusiast.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43295445)

But the leap doesnt contain a camera

How About Learning A Little Before Piping Up? (3, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298155)

"While I'm all for new and exciting technology, I'm not sure I like having cameras around that can be hacked, and visual interfaces that may record motions I make that I do not intend to go into a computer."

The LEAP does not take pictures. It does not even contain a camera.

While it works kind of like a Kinect (in that they both use light), the similarity pretty much stops there.

You missed this part (1)

concealment (2447304) | about a year and a half ago | (#43302909)

and visual interfaces that may record motions I make that I do not intend to go into a computer.

I then go on to talk about visual gestures and how I don't want those recorded.

You seem to have mis-read the original message. I would apologize, but after having re-read it, I don't think it's unclear. I often read things hastily as well, and that can lead to this kind of misunderstanding.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300615)

Well then, you should get a leap motion because it doesn't use any cameras, and the data it generate from use would be almost useless (like trying to use a person's typing speed against them).

Perfect for a sith Star Wars game (2)

CQDX (2720013) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294491)

"I find you lack of faith disturbing..."

omg (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294503)

It's painful to hear this guy talk. Don't clench your teeth while talking!

Re:omg (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43295137)

It's painful to hear this guy talk. Don't clench your teeth while talking!

So, what you are saying is don't clench your teeth. So what I'm not going to do is clench. So, I'm going to start every sentence with so. So. So. So.

Re:omg (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43299589)

I'm pretty sure that guy is drunk or super hung over. He looks and sounds it.

I would probably buy one, (3, Interesting)

bobstreo (1320787) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294521)

Except I don't see Android or Linux on the list of things they run on

Would be quite nice for tablet, phone or android stick attached to giant TV.

>>The Leap Motion Controller will change the way you work without changing what already works for you. So it doesn’t replace your keyboard, mouse, stylus, or trackpad. It works with them, and without special adapters. Just plug it into the USB on your Mac or PC, and you’re off.

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294835)

I'm more interested in those other controllers he mentioned, like the "V" and the "Connect" - where can I find out more about those?

Re:I would probably buy one, (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294869)

Last time I checked their forums, the company was hostile to the idea of using their hardware with Linux. ("intellectual property" concerns)

Re:I would probably buy one, (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294905)

"I just wanted to drop in and give you a little update. Earlier [yesterday], we released our first early build of the Linux SDK to developers on the developer portal. We will be working closely with devs to help make the Linux SDK as robust as possible, and we're looking forward to the feedback"

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

avxo (861854) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295301)

It their driver open source, or is it going to be more binary blobs ala nvidia for me to link into my kernel?

Re:I would probably buy one, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43301017)

It shows up on the computer as a generic USB webcam, so there are no proprietary drivers.

Re:I would probably buy one, (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294883)

Check the Linux [] category in the forum.
There seems to be a ground swell for Linux support. Be heard.

Why hide this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43295599)

Why wouldn't they consider it part of the mainline SDK? There are a lot of engineers and developers working on Linux.

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

avxo (861854) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295223)

Even if they do have Linux support, will it be open, or will it still more proprietary stuff? And haven't we heard this tune before anyways? An upstart (in this case, the duo [] ) appears, and all of a sudden these guys that have been sitting pretty with their thumb out of view somewhere make a lot of noise about "hundreds of thousands of preorders"... yeah, well... preorders are fine and dandy, but when do we see the product? Those other guys seem to have everything ready to go and I'm going to vote with my dollars on kickstarter.

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

Misagon (1135) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296065)

From what I have understood from reading Leap' employees posts in the Linux subforum, a large amount of input processing is done in drivers on the host which will therefore have to stay proprietary.

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

unrtst (777550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43297883)

From what I have understood from reading Leap' employees posts in the Linux subforum, a large amount of input processing is done in drivers on the host which will therefore have to stay proprietary.

Almost right, up until the "...processing is done in drivers", which is imprecise. It's done in software. There is no reason the drivers couldn't be open.
And then, also wrong at "have to stay proprietary". Should read, " done in software on the host which they are likely to keep as proprietary."

It may seem like a moot point, but there's a significant difference there, especially since many of the algorithms can already be commonly found in OpenCV and similar areas. They *could* just make good hardware and sell it. In addition, there is absolutely no reason why the DRIVER needs to remain closed source, ESPECIALLY since all the fancy bits are in their software (which is separate from the driver).

It's a cool little device, but it's essentially just two cameras, 3 IR LEDs that flash at various intervals, and it streams the camera frames back over USB. The driver does stuff to set the LED's going and trigger it to send video and such. The software takes the result and does the magic. I'd love it if that were open too, but it's the only bit they have any reason to keep closed (IMO).

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

avxo (861854) | about a year and a half ago | (#43297981)

Right... so why not support the DUO instead, which is a solution that promises to be open, so you can take the hardware and the driver and modify them and then playing with OpenCV? And by the way, since you mentioned OpenCV: from the looks of it, the guys behind the DUO seem to have a long history of contributing to that project too - have the guys behind LEAP done the same?

Re:I would probably buy one, (2)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298467)

"Right... so why not support the DUO instead... ?"

While I know quite a bit about the LEAP, information seems pretty scarce about the DUO. Also, I would not be too sure about the Open Source bit. This is from the OS X forum on their website:

"Thanks for your API feedback. The vision pipeline is not Objective-C, and in answer to your question about source library or precompiled/headers, the degree to which the software will be open source is unannounced yet. However, your thoughts about the SDK are extremely valuable and the team is listening, keep the comments coming!"

So... they haven't even decided how much, if any, of it will be open source yet. Further, they are nowhere as far along in the development cycle as the LEAP is. Yes, the fact that LEAP was in development was announced quite a while ago. But they did not announce a projected shipping date until recently. What's wrong with that? How many years was the Kinect in development?

More questions about the DUO to which I did not find ready answers:

They mention "highly accurate" and "low latency"... but nowhere do they say HOW accurate, or what the latency actually is. (The latter figure of course depends on some variables, but they could give us a baseline.)

I saw a demo with 5 fingers, but not 10. Can it track 10? I don't know. I know that the LEAP can.

The DUO looks about 3 or 4 times as large as a LEAP, it looks cheaply made, it is still in early development, they seem to be holding the actual specs pretty close to their chests, yet it costs nearly twice as much as a LEAP? WTF?

My impression: they're pretty strong on innuendo, pretty short on details, and they have a long way to go yet. All in all, I'll go for now with a product that I know is professionally done and that I know works as advertised (because I have a development unit).

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

unrtst (777550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43299017)

Right... so why not support the DUO instead...

FWIW, I haven't supported either yet (neither financially nor investing time in them, other than talking about them).
That said, the little I can glean about the DUO makes it sound much less polished, and I haven't seen any guarentee of the drivers being open source (though, it appears the hardware is, or will be, open hardware, and they certainly seem more involved in open source projects).

One thing that seems quite different about the two, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is the use of strobing IR's on the LEAP ("stobing" may not be the most accurate description, but there are three IR LED's, and the alternate being on at different times, so it appears to be a technique that may be what is helping them acheve their accuracy). Meanwhile, the DUO kickstarter page says if you pledge $70 or more, you'll get the "DUO COMPONENTS KIT", which includes a case, electronics, SDK, and instructions on building the sensor... and all you need is two PS3 Eye cameras. In other words, it's using two PS3 Eye cameras, which is already a significant difference (no light filter to restrict to IR, no IR leds, etc). In addition, those things are about $22 a pop, plus the $70 for the kit, plus you have to build it yourself, or you could get a LEAP for $70.

Don't get me wrong... when the DUO ships, if it works ok, has good linux support, and doesn't cost more than twice what the LEAP goes for, I'll support them. And if the leap lacks good linux support, they won't get my money at all. I actually want one for one of it's most basic features - just a floating touch area in front of my screen. Touchscreens are actually more expensive than either of these things, and these don't involve fingerprints on the screen... but I really don't *need* a touchscreen either, so I can easily live without them. There's some other things I'd like to use one for, but they're just goofing around type things, and probably wouldn't get used much in that manor in the long run (like the 3d part of my 3d projector - doesn't get used much, but it's fun once in a great while).

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298203)

"... ESPECIALLY since all the fancy bits are in their software..."

Not really. An awful lot of processing is done in hardware and firmware. There is no way software could handle the load of data otherwise.

Even so, interpreting that data is processor intensive. But it's up to developers to make that data interface with their own software.

There are already open-source libraries available to programmers, in some languages, for that latter step. But they do still rely on the low-level "driver" if you want to call it that.

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

unrtst (777550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298913)

"... ESPECIALLY since all the fancy bits are in their software..."

Not really. An awful lot of processing is done in hardware and firmware. There is no way software could handle the load of data otherwise.

Here's two comments from leapmotion forums from the Co-Founder & CTO: [] []

"Just to clear up a tiny bit of mystery. The device does not output any form of depth-map or point cloud over USB. There is no processor on the device."
"The developer units do not have firmware with plug-and-play legacy features right now."

The latter was in regards to comments that it may behave as a basic multitouch HID device when no leap drivers are loaded (ie. could be used on an OS without proprietary drivers)... meaning that was not true, at least not in the units that are out there now.
The former says there's no processor in the device, so it's not doing much. Granted, it's doing *something*, but it's not doing a whole bunch of image processing.

Re:I would probably buy one, (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year and a half ago | (#43299433)

"Here's two comments from leapmotion forums from the Co-Founder & CTO:"

But those two comments do not say what you appear to think they're saying.

"Just to clear up a tiny bit of mystery. The device does not output any form of depth-map or point cloud over USB. There is no processor on the device."

It does not have to have a processor onboard in order to do a lot of the heavy lifting. There are all kinds of ways to process data without a "processor" per se. It could be a custom IC, or a PLA, or any number of other kinds of electronics going on in there.

But more to the point: the comment was about whether it outputs a point cloud. So what? It does output a hell of a lot of data, it just isn't in the form of a point cloud. (Which makes sense, as a 3D point cloud of that size and resolution would massively overwhelm even a speedy new machine with quad cores, not to mention the USB interface.) And that brings us right back to the context of the comment: it doesn't output a point cloud. So it HAS TO be doing something with the data onboard, even if it's only to reduce the volume of data to a manageable level.

"The developer units do not have firmware with plug-and-play legacy features right now."

They may not have "plugh-and-play legacy features", but they *DO* have firmware. I know because I've updated mine, and it's due for another update. Which very strongly implies that there is data manipulation of some kind going on in the device itself. (As I pointed out above, in fact that isn't even optional. It MUST be manipulating the data in order to even operate within the limits of USB. And even if that were not logically so, I know it is so because before the last firmware update it was overwhelming my USB.)

linux support is planned (1)

Chirs (87576) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296103)

It's supposedly being worked on, check out their forums.

Re:I would probably buy one, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43298909)

It's USB powered so there's eventually going to be a driver for it. in b4 XKCD reference

Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch (2)

jacksonic (914470) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294547)

This turns any computer into a touchscreen. It should have come built in to all windows 8 keyboards: the metro tiles would finally make sense.

Re:Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch (1)

peon_a-z,A-Z,0-9$_+! (2743031) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294601)

Exactly my thoughts. I use m 46" TV as my primary monitor for most gaming and run Windows 8 (Windows 8 is not bad, there are just a lot of complainers out there, or maybe I'm just old enough to be that negative towards new things yet). I pre-ordered this just for the reason you pointed out - can't wait for my 46" living room touchscreen that I don't actually have to "touch."

Re:Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294697)

In the video it looked like the device had to sit on the table in front of the monitor if vertical. That would seem to dramatically limit the options for a big screen (think front projection). From the demo I'd call it more of a mini-kinect or hand-kinect than a "super kinect." A neat toy, but not nearly as amazing as the hype would seem to indicate. Using gesture control on the existing Kinect can get a little frustrating as is. Then again I haven't seen one of these in person or dug through all the technical details.

Re:Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch (1)

Misagon (1135) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296091)

It is not exactly like a touch screen. There is no way to detect touch -- you can only wave your hands in front of the screen.
Also, because there is no eye-hand-coordination in the system, there will have to be proxy objects (like mouse pointers) on the screen for your finger tips.

Did you guys try it? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294583)

I was highly unimpressed with the demo at SXSW and I've heard mixed reviews from people that got into the dev program.
It seems to be sunlight sensitive and it likes to randomly drop elements that it is tracking, maybe just a driver issue and I'm sure it could improve, but at the moment I'm not impressed.

Re:Did you guys try it? (2, Insightful)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295191)

I stopped reading after "SXSW"...

Re:Did you guys try it? (2)

jharriman (2877515) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296649)

I tried it at SXSW and it seemed fickle. To me it seems to be one of those devices that work when the planets align just right. And since their architecture is proprietary, I won't be able to modify things myself to try and improve the detection (or use it in other, cool ways). That's why personally, the DUO is a lot more appealing and I contributed to the DUO kickstarter [] .

Re:Did you guys try it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43298643)

If it's sunlight sensitive then it's using IR. All IR systems have this issue and can get interference from any other IR source: cameras, TV remotes, LEDs, projectors, etc...

Between this and Win 8 I need to reinvest (2)

paiute (550198) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294693)

I'm pulling my money out of foolish things like municipal bonds and buying stock in companies which make rotator cuff treatments and therapies because that is apparently going to be a huge growth area soon.

Re:Between this and Win 8 I need to reinvest (1)

P-niiice (1703362) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294819)

Doctor: what's wrong with you?
Patient: it hurts to defragment.

Re:Between this and Win 8 I need to reinvest (1)

joh (27088) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296243)

I'm pulling my money out of foolish things like municipal bonds and buying stock in companies which make rotator cuff treatments and therapies because that is apparently going to be a huge growth area soon.

Yeah, because doing things with your arms and hands that require more motion than moving a mouse around on a desk just isn't natural... or what?

Tekwar (1)

houbou (1097327) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294779)

Remember that show.. well, the tech which it was made of, is slowly, but surely coming to reality..

DUO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294933)

I saw the demo at SXSW and wasn't all that impressed. A demo I have been impressed by, however, is the DUO, which is currently on Kickstarter ( looking for $100,000 to bring their open solution to market. If nothing else, those guys will give LEAP some competition - and that's always a good thing. That they're planning to have Linux support is a huge plus.

Re:DUO (1)

avxo (861854) | about a year and a half ago | (#43294987)

The DUO is pretty sleek and seems to have extremely high accuracy while tracking. Disclosure: I contributed to their kickstarter.

Re:DUO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43295375)

For those interested in alternative DIY 3D motion controller called DUO you can head over to

desired application (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43294953)

Aslan translator

Re:desired application (1)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295611)

I thought that, despite being a lion, Aslan spoke perfectly good English?

Pew-pew gaming (2)

m2shariy (1194621) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295101)

So now we can play first-person shooters by pointing a finger an yelling "Pew-pew-pew"?

Porn Industry (1)

shdowhawk (940841) | about a year and a half ago | (#43295511)

Imagine how amazing this would be for the porn industry. They could target ad's to you so much easier based on your ... ummm ... big or small hand gestures?

Re:Porn Industry (1)

Wescotte (732385) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296011)

Clippy 2.0? So it looks like you're masturbating....

Unfair comparison (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43295777)

It is yet not possible to truly compare both systems. The Kinect has a range of several meters and produces a colored pointcloud. The Leap has a range of less than a meter and currently only returns the position of the fingertips. Full Body tracking is therefore not possible with a single Leap.

You can also say that the Kinect is a Super-Leap motion since the sensing range is much larger and the Kinect is able to capture several persons and not only the fingers of a single one.

can you replace the keyboard with this? (1)

peter303 (12292) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296247)

It seems like you dont have to click keys anymore. You just "air type" and have an app convert it to keys.

Musical keyboards too.

Audio Production (1)

GoogleShill (2732413) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296451)

Am I the only one that couldn't handle listening to the audio in that clip? One guy is speaking into my left ear and the other guy into my right. It's like I'm standing between them staring off orthogonally, but the video has me looking right at the interviewee. Makes my head spin.

Do us a favor and mix it down to mono.

Their Developer Support is Lame (1)

miroku000 (2791465) | about a year and a half ago | (#43296485)

I would have been happy to buy a device and possibly develop for it, but they have really horrible developer support. They don't let you even download the SDK! Apparently 40,000 people applied to the developer program, but they are only giving access to people that they have decided to give free devices. Their actual end-user device is shipping soon, but we can't even download the SDK? WTF??? It is cheap and I would be happy to buy one. But, without an SDK it is pretty worthless to me...

Re:Their Developer Support is Lame (1)

avxo (861854) | about a year and a half ago | (#43300403)

Amen to that. That's why I'm excited about the DUO. Even at $110 it's a great deal if you look at the specs of the hardware, the capabilities it has and what their software does according to the video highlights (their tracking of a hand through a 180 degree turn is very impressive). I don't get why LEAP is restricting their SDK and limiting who can be a developer and what people can use the device for.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again, if we as members of a community that values open-source projects (whether it be open hardware or open software) want to have more open source projects then we should back the projects we have now. That's why I contributed to the DUO and that's why I think you should too, on Kickstarter [] .

Clever idea, but not a good idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43297273)

Leap motion tracks finger-tips when the user is nice enough to make this easy for the device. Relative accuracy in optimal circumstances can clearly be better than one might expect. Absolute accuracy is poor, so its no replacement for touch-screens.

Worse, the LM needs massive amounts of CPU processing to do the motion tracking.

All this means that as a general purpose input device, the LM is utterly useless. The designers understood this problem, which is why they gave away so many development models, in the desperate hope that they could 'crowd source' some new killer apps for the device.

Take a simple consideration. How do you tell LM your input has stated? You can't- not reliably. How do you tell it input has stopped? Again, you can't. The device allows for no 'punctuation'. With a mouse, the buttons provide the 'punctuation' or state changes. With a touch tablet, punctuation occurs because finger detection happens over a VERY thin 2D plane.

In comparison, 3D motion tracking devices do not allow sane methods for the user to distinguish between 'motion' and 'punctuation'. Idiots that will respond with 'gestures' are too stupid to realise that gestures are the very worst way to try to inform the input device that you wish to signal 'puntuation' (state change). At best, a 'gesture' (like wiggling a finger) might be recognised some of the time, if the point at which the motion input stops can be relatively fuzzy.

I'm sorry, but such input devices have been with us since the 60s (albeit in a much bigger form) and no-one has found a way to overcome the 'punctuation' problem. The 'ten' point detection is also pointless, given that most humans would have trouble usefully inputting more than two controlled points with their fingers (given that the cameras that 'see' the fingers point only upward, and thus cannot handle 'over-lapping' fingers at all well).

LM thus falls back to use as a gaming peripheral, where accuracy of input isn't important- like the Kinect. Unfortunately, LM is insanely expensive as a gaming 'controller'- it really needs to be $30. It is really the equivalent of a 'light gun' or 'power glove'. However, this form of gaming is almost exclusive found on the consoles, not the PC. So even worse, LM becomes (if very very lucky) that cool sounding gizmo that loads of people buy, mess with for a day or so, then stick in a drawer never to be thought about again- like those hardware text-to-speech modules from TI all those years ago.

Re:Clever idea, but not a good idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43299703)

Since I have one and am programming a 2D touch plane in mid air that I use all ten fingertip points on. stfu and gtfo. You dont know what you are talking about, or lack imagination. Put yourself in the old drawer next to the speech module. ....for the times... they are a' -dylan.

Stick with your buggy whip and typwriter.


Getting better with the post production, BUT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43298719)

Can we not have each speaker panned all the way to one side of the audio channels? It drives me nearly crazy. Thanks.

Fingers and chopsticks... (1)

BlackPignouf (1017012) | about a year and a half ago | (#43298761)

Fingers and chopsticks that "go where no device has gone before.".
No, thank you :D

cheap jordan shoes,Air max shoes,handbags sale (-1, Flamebait)

cheap_jordan_shoes (2878135) | about a year and a half ago | (#43301201)

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Winning! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43301399)

And we thought we'd seen the last of Charlie Sheen.

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