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Tribes 2 For Linux Reviewed

timothy posted more than 13 years ago | from the like-violence-for-chocolate dept.

Games 78

lotion writes: "Tribes 2 is finally here, and not only do we have a fantastic Windows version, but folks, the Linux version is here and waiting for our official review. So we enlisted the help of Woody Hughes, the former Senior Editor of Maximum Linux Magazine, to do the official review. Will he wax poetic on the injustice that is Tribes, or will we actually get to see the gentler and more cuddly side of the Woodman? Read the full review at"

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Re:linux needs more games (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#195804)

Unless you mean eye-candy when you say quality, Linux has plenty of high quality games. They even have good graphics sometimes, but gameplay is still valued more than snazzomatic 3D!!! graphics.

PS: Is anybody else bugged by retarted games where they have 3d graphics but don't need it at all?

This is not a troll™ (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#195805)

How does any game that involves recompiling the kernel get a 10/10 for installation?

Maximum Linux? (5)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 13 years ago | (#195806)

Looks like the maximum for me is "57% of 88K (stalled)".

- A.P.

Forget Napster. Why not really break the law?

Re:Barfight between John Romero and Carmack after (1)

shogun (657) | more than 13 years ago | (#195807)

Almost got me with that one, just hit the ole access denied message from my proxy. ;]

late review (3)

Tom (822) | more than 13 years ago | (#195808)

that's quite a late review, don't you think? I've been playing T2 on my Linux box for weeks now. and yes, it absolutely rocks. if you have been waiting for an excuse to send some $$$ to loki, this is it.

as the site seems to be slashdotted - those interested in T2, go to any review you want. the installer and auto-updater are Loki gtk+ apps, but once you are inside the game, the windos and Linux versions look, feel and play 100% identical. unfortunately, down to the occasional crash ("unhandled exception" on windos, segfault on Linux).

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (4)

Tom (822) | more than 13 years ago | (#195809)

I couldn't get to the article (/.ed, I guess), but I can answer your questions:

all video card tuning is done in-game, exactly as in the windos version. one thing you should know is that if you want to play in 32bit (instead of 16bit), you have to start your X with 32 or 24 bit depths (startx---depth24).
32bit is heavily recommended, because you get ugly z-buffer effects ("jaggy" shorelines, for example) in 16bit.
other than that, refer to the appropriate docs for installing the drivers for your card (e.g. there are readme's inside the nvidia packages.

network play is good and performance on the same machine is about equal (some say slightly better) to the windos version. I have both installed and there is no noticeable difference.

one difference between windos and Linux is that whereas in the windos version you put scripts and other add-ons into the main game directory, in Linux you have a ~/.loki/tribes2, so different people can actually use the same machine and have different scripts, soundpacks, etc. installed. also, when it hangs (which it sometimes does, on both Linux and windos), you can ssh in an killall -9 tribes2 and almost always you get your machine back without a reboot. so in some OS specific ways, the Linux version is clearly superior to the windos one.

there should be little difference between distros, at least all loki games I've bought so far worked equally good on suse and debian and I would be surprised if T2 is any different.

Faster than on windos? (1)

Eck (2901) | more than 13 years ago | (#195810)

What I've been most interested to see about Tribes 2 for Linux is how the performance compares with the windos version. I installed the game under win98 (w/98lite) and the performance sucked. On the same box, I've installed the Linux version, and it's quite playable!

I notice the system requirements are listed as being the same. Has anyone else done a side-by-side comparison like this?

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (1)

Marimus (5470) | more than 13 years ago | (#195811)

I've found that I don't even need to ssh in when it crashes. Just CTRL-ALT-F[1-12] to the good old console and do a killall tribes from there.

Much easier no?

I always knew... (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 13 years ago | (#195812)

that John Romero was a giant asshole!

Re:Want to find Tribes 2 games? (2)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 13 years ago | (#195813)

Because in game browsers blow?

Okay, I haven't used the Tribes2 one, but the browsers in, say, Descent3 and Quake3 suck. Especially for q3, where the literally thousands of servers is impossible to sort through without the nice xqf interface.

Plus, if you use an out-of-game browser, then you can go check email while the servers refresh :)

A Disappointment (4)

Bitscape (7378) | more than 13 years ago | (#195814)

While everything else I've played from Loki has been awesome, this one was a disappointment. Did they even bother to do any Q/A on non-Nvidia hardware? Judging by how it plays on my Athlon 750 with 128 MB RAM, Matrox G400 system, I suspect not.

If all they're going to support is Nvidia, that's fine, but they should SAY SO on the system requirements page. The only thing it says is OpenGL card with 4 Meg video memory. Even though I meet these requirements easily, I don't consider the game playable.

On my hardware configuration described above, the framerate sometimes drops inexplicably from (subjective guess) 15 down to 2 fps for several seconds at a time at random moments during the game. That's no fun when you're in the middle of a battle.

On the default quality settings, the graphics themselves are nothing to rave about either. Chunky polygons reminiscent of pre-3d accelerated flight simulators. Abrupt and unnatural changes in shading. It reminds me of old DOS VGA games from the 386 era. (Sometimes even the immediately surrounding terrain flickers when I turn my head around. Not cool.) The graphics are that bad, yet it STILL can't hit even a fraction of the framerate of Quake3? Pathetic.

Based on what I've heard, it does run great if you have an Nvidia. Maybe one of these days, I'll go out and buy one for myself. (Based on what little I _have_ been able to do, the Tribes 2 gameplay does seem very cool.) Until then, it's just taking up space on my hard drive though.

So, to summarize, a Warning to non-Nvidia users: Unless you plan to switch video cards, don't bother with this one. Try Heavy Gear 2, or any of Loki's other cool titles instead.

On Windows only GF2 (non MX) are playable (2)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 13 years ago | (#195815)

The tribes2 engine sucks on anything but GF2 (non mx versions) video cards. WickedGL came out with new opengl drivers for 3dfx cards, and we are finally able to play on our video cards. (Sorry Windows Only)

Tribes2 may have the looks and gameplay, but it has the worst video card support, and highest hardware requirements.

Actually (2)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 13 years ago | (#195816)

The "just show FPS" command is

Re:tribes2 for linux, the ultimate office suite! (2)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 13 years ago | (#195817)

Dont forget the IRC client isnt standard, they are coming out with a plugin for Mirc in windows so people can use authentication.

So time to load wine for mirc. (-;

Re:A Disappointment (2)

Grond (15515) | more than 13 years ago | (#195818)

Well, the win2k drivers for the G400's have big problems with dual processor systems. That's probably the problem.
For instance, when Black and White came out, a lot of dual-processor-having-folks (such as me) swamped the Matrox message boards with complaints about missing textures, texture corruption, and crashes. After a while, they admitted that the drivers are quite buggy when used in an SMP machine (and an OS that supports it).
I'm not sure if the Xfree86 G400 drivers have the same problem exactly, but maybe they do. I don't have tribes2 on my machine, although I do reccommend Loki's other titles. SMAC, particularly, is quite good.

Want to find Tribes 2 games? (1)

Oskuro (26466) | more than 13 years ago | (#195819)

Then use Qstat [] or XQF [] , a Gtk+ frontend :)

(+1, Funny Informative Troll) (1)

kubrick (27291) | more than 13 years ago | (#195820)

See subject. I just used up my mod points, so I thought I'd post that as a message instead :)

Re:/.-ed (1)

kubrick (27291) | more than 13 years ago | (#195821)

Just curious as to why Slashdot never gets slashdotted. Conspiracy? CmdrTaco's evil DoS scheme?

Back in the early days (and I was reading Slashdot for a while before registering an account) there were definitely "good" and "bad" times of day to try and access the site (timeouts etc.). After they moved backbone providers a few times and hosted on bigger boxes, the problems eventually went away... guess all that VALinux money must have done *some* good :]

/.-ed (3)

kubrick (27291) | more than 13 years ago | (#195822)

Warning: MySQL Connection Failed: Too many connections in /home/httpd/html/common.php on line 79

If you're going to spam your articles onto the front page of /., at least get a server that can stand the pain! :)

Re:A Disappointment (2)

jfunk (33224) | more than 13 years ago | (#195823)

Yet another person complaining about modern games not running on non-modern hardware.

If Microsoft does it it's bad, but game companies can do no wrong?

I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. What's more ridiculous is that the box says "3D Accelerator." If they're going to code to specific hardware, why not tell the consumer what hardware they used?

Is the 32MB G450 I just bought too "old?" Why do I get the feeling that I would have the same problems as the G400 users?

Too bad, I was about to go for the bundle, too.

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (1)

braindead (33893) | more than 13 years ago | (#195824)

> 1. Standardized keyboard shortcuts. (...)
> If I can alt+tab between apps (or to my dos
> console to move files around) I tend to do it.
> If I can alt+F4 to kill a window or app, I'll do
> that. etc.

Actually, many windowmanagers have this as a default and almost all can be set to do it. I used Sawmill, WindowMaker and fvwm2 and all of them have alt-tab and alt-F4. Not to mention the virtual screens (cannot live without - does WindowsXP finally have them built in? No?).

So maybe all we need is that the distros (RH, for example) stop doing the wrong thing and install good defaults (or do they already? I wouldn't know, not using RH).

Re:Want to find Tribes 2 games? (1)

SETY (46845) | more than 13 years ago | (#195825)

try it, it works fine.
filters, favourites, etc.
My filter only shows me 10 servers.

Re:A Disappointment (1)

SETY (46845) | more than 13 years ago | (#195826)

I have three systems with G200,G400, and G450 respectively. I couldn't get the game to load at all.
That might be becasue I have now learned I must run it as root for some stupid reason or it segfaults. No idea why.
Anyway I went and bought a 32 MB GEforce 2 MX and it works great. Even on a 366 dual celeron.
So honestly just buy the card, have fun, and bitch at loki for only makeing the game for one card.

Re:Want to find Tribes 2 games? (2)

British (51765) | more than 13 years ago | (#195827)

Trust me, the in game browser for Tribes 2 is light years ahead of CStrike and Quake 3(which doesnt even work half the time for lan games). It's easy to use, you can set up your own filters and such, and other fun things. I just wish double click = connect to server instead of refresh. I had no problem getting on the same server as a friend of mine who was sitting right next to me.

As for CStrike's browsing, it blows. Of course, there's nothing to be done for servers that insist on reserving unused slots.

Whoo. That was empty. (4)

solios (53048) | more than 13 years ago | (#195828)

Yes, I actually *read* the review. Remove the fact that this guy is running RedHat 7.x and it blends in indistinguishably from the other eight gazillion GamePro quality Yes-Man gushing outpourings of stickiness that need only the tiny little words "advertisement" at the bottom to complete the atmosphere.

It wasn't a review, it was a damned advertisement, disguised as a review- with a brag about hacking Nvidia drivers thrown in. Great- not even links for possible newbies to figure out how to enable the various video card functions for themselves. "Of course, installation was flawless", he says. Loads of detail there. I'm underwhelmed. No comments about network play, no details on how the game performs against players using the Windows version..... no MEAT to the article at all.

It's fluff, pure and simple- if you're hungry for serious information about how this game handles under linux, or under different distros, etceteras, well..... this article simply is NOT going to deliver what you're looking for in any capacity. Unless you're looking for self-rightous babble and a few screen shots, in which case you'll get plenty of both.

But hey, he answers the important question- it runs, and it runs well. And anyone who frequents gaming sites or who's played the windows version knows the game is a blast. So from that standpoint, kudos.

A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (5)

solios (53048) | more than 13 years ago | (#195829)

While having a standard interface would most likely draw in base users and give programmers something to work with in terms of GUI-based apps such as word processors and web browsers, it really has nothing to do with games. Yeah, some graphics libraries may be necessary and you'll certainly need video card driver support, but beyond that, when was the last time you saw a game actually running *on* the desktop?

Games like Tribes don't need Gnome, or Motif, or OpenStep, or KDE or whatever as a prerequisite to run- they need the system kernel and system resources, and access to the hardware. And a way for the user to run the game. That's pretty much it. Remember all of those old DOS games you could still run on NT (without sound) or 9x with full features? Or the games that "required" Win9x but actually ran in DOS? Case in point that the UI is irrelevant- you could boot into DOS and still run Starcraft or Quake.

Digressing offtopic (to the review), I personally think that the general userbase isn't going to dick with linux until they can do the following:

1. Make it go. Easily. Linux sure as hell can't do this (Mac OS X, on the other hand, does)

2. Games, Internet, Word processing. In that order- linux has the internet thing down. Games are coming, and office suites are getting there.

3. Look at it and use it without grimacing. Face it- Mac OS took pretty to the next level with MacOS X, and Windows is tagging behind with XP and 2000. The existing window managers for linux, as fine as they may run and as pretty as you *may* be able to make them, look like complete ass in their base configuration. Apple dropped the ball on X by shifting to a new- and nasty- useability interface that put Pretty as a much higher priority than being useable, and Windows isn't going to go away for awhile. So if Linux wants users, the coders and OSS companies should start by being painless and pretty: who would you invite to the party- the 800 lb Gorilla or Liv Tyler?

With some effort, a Linux distro could arise that contains all of the power and presence of the 800 lb gorilla with the yumminess of Liv Tyler. But right now, it's big, and it's ugly.

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 13 years ago | (#195830)

Well, as anecdotal as this is, my burners have always "just worked" with many disparate Linux distros (and worked without major effort in Win9x), it has always been a major pain in the ass with NT/2k. I've found its simply easier to boot Linux to do it.

Why the dispartity in our experiences? Let me guess, you're pretty much a windows person, right? I'm a *n?x person who boots windows to play games. Have you considered that maybe windows isn't any easier to use/setup, just that you're more used to windows?

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (1)

Anguirel (58085) | more than 13 years ago | (#195831)

As a (minor) sidenote, I'm going to have to assume you use Win98 (or at least 9x) to play Tribes 2 in. In Win2k I've never had a problem returning to my OS when the game hung. In fact, it hasn't hung totally yet, but rather, it'll error (sometimes returning an error message from the program, which isn't a hang, I'd assume, or no error message directly except Win2k mentioning it's creating an error log about it) and dump you back to the desktop. It's possible I'm just not experiencing the same problems you do, but it could also be that in some OS specific ways, Win2k is just easier to recover in.

If the error and signal handler (or whatever exactly would be involved) can catch the hang in Win2k, it can probably be set up to handle the same problems in Linux without resorting to SSH and kill -9.

~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
"Veni; Vidi; Vi C++"

Re:A Disappointment (1)

Anguirel (58085) | more than 13 years ago | (#195832)

Are you sure that wasn't pure lag killing your frame-rate? I can't speak to any of your other graphic glitches, but the 'frame-rate' problems I experienced early on when I was playing T2 were generally caused by 2 things, 1 of which is probably Windows specific (minor hardware race conditions and conflicts based around the soundcard, ethernet card and video card all being stuck on a single IRQ for some reason). The other one was Packet Loss caused by my campus network. When I switched to Cable (or my friend's DSL) most of that set of problems went away. Resetting my graphics preferences to lower settings (reducing texture quality, reducing distance, lowering model complexity) didn't help much. The only place I still have frame-rate problems is near firing deployable turrets, which is probably also at least somewhat lag related.

~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
"Veni; Vidi; Vi C++"

Thats because Matrox cards suck. (2)

ikekrull (59661) | more than 13 years ago | (#195833)

For 3D work, Matrox cards are just rubbish, plain and simple.

They might display your desktop across multiple monitors without a problem, but thats all they are good for.

Matrox 3D drivers are buggy, released excruciatingly late and perform badly.

After owning a 2MB Matrox Millenium (great little card, still going strong today),I was burnt with a G200, and will never buy another Matrox card again.

Re:Where's the Mac?? (2)

ikekrull (59661) | more than 13 years ago | (#195834)

Its probably more to do with the problems finding people to actually do the port and then support it.

OpenGL on MacOS previous to X was limited to third-party support, i think (correct me if i'm wrong), and MacOS X is pretty new, meaning nobody is really well established in this currently small market.

Linux is much more attractive to most programmers than the MacOS is - since it runs on their formerly Windows machines.

While Macs are on more desktops, you have much more developer mindshare in the gaming industry with Linux than with MacOS.

MacOS X has much more potential than MacOS =9, since porting games from an existing Linux version to a PPC MacOS X version should be a lot less work than going direct from Windows to MacOS X.

As PPC-based Linux gets more support (e.g. TiVO), this porting process will be even easier.

However it's pretty clear that the games industry is looking much more seriously at Linux than it is at OS X.

Apple can choose to take advantage of this fact, and look at how they can ease the transition between Linux and their BSD flavour, or they can do what they usually do, and ignore the games market entirely, leaving customers like you wondering 'Where are the games for my Mac?'

Re:Why do reviewers list... (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 13 years ago | (#195835)

I just think you're reading into this too much. The Midiland S4s are a pretty high-end set of speakers, and if you've never heard of them, you're obviously not an audiophile. Since he was mentioning that the audio effects in the game were awesome, I think it is quite appropriate to mention his speaker setup. After all, everything sounds awesome through my 400watt Klipsch 4.1's ;)

Re:Why do reviewers list... (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 13 years ago | (#195836)

Well, if you have unlimited money to throw at a problem, anyone can be an audiophile. In reality, if you can get the most performance out of what resources you have, then you are a true audiophile. Also, in the context of *computer* audio, the 4.1's are audiophile speakers. Given that my main use for audio is listening to music while coding, I don't get much enjoyment out of a home theater set, now do I?

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 13 years ago | (#195837)

in Linux you have a ~/.loki/tribes2
I really which the UNIX weenies would come up with some better way to keep per-user configs then stuffing crap into my home directory!

Re:What if... (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 13 years ago | (#195838)

Umm, Linux is actually more bogged down by backwards compatibility than Windows. Windows just has 15 years of DOS baggage. Linux has 30 years of *NIX baggage. The difference is that Linux (and most *NIXs) tend to handle it better, but everyone still IS using creat to creatE files, just because K & R couldn't spell ;)

PS> creat just sounds stupid, not efficient. Once, when asked what he would do differently with UNIX, Ritchie (I think) replied that he would spell creat properly this time.

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 13 years ago | (#195839)

I think we should have a little talk.

You see, when a man and women love each other, and think they are ready... they, well...

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 13 years ago | (#195840)

Actually, I have another reply to this. See, in our psycholgy class, there was a book on the reading list that involved, well, it involved a... a polar bear... and a psychosexual disorder...

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 13 years ago | (#195841)

Let's see, this is a game. Thus its being run on a desktop machine. I don't know about you, but I make all my directories readable to myself. The /home method works okay for a multiuser system, but really isn't appropriate for a single-user desktop system. What I was thinking was more of a registry type thing. Instead of dozens of directories stuffed into /home, there would be one registry (an XML text based one of course!) for each user and one for the system. Not only does this unify configs, but makes everything nice and neat. It could even be protected so apps could only use it through OS calls, and thus be even safer than using the /home method.

T2 is qute fun... (2)

baitisj (64922) | more than 13 years ago | (#195842)

I love running over people with the grav cycle.
The only problem that I've noticed is that it really seems to get slow after playing for a while... must have memory leaks...

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (1)

jhoffoss (73895) | more than 13 years ago | (#195843)

There is a compatability list, but everything on that list (usually) works without any extra effort, and a lot of hardware still works even if it's not on that list. The HCL is only the stuff MS has certified to work with Win2K.

I recently installed Linux-Mandrake 8.0 and I have yet to get my burner working properly, though I haven't had time to research that yet; with Win2K though, it just works.

G400 will not run T2 nicely (2)

antdude (79039) | more than 13 years ago | (#195844)

I asked about this on Matrox [] 's and MURC [] 's forums if Tribes 2 (T2) would run nicely even at the lowest details, etc. The answer is no, even on my Pentium III 600 Mhz with 256 MB and Windows 98.

I have friends who had Voodoo3 cards, and the game was too choppy for them. They all got GeForce 2 cards, and no problems.

So you will need to upgrade the video card (bottle neck) in order to play T2. I will eventually upgrade my video card soon.

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (2)

krmt (91422) | more than 13 years ago | (#195845)

Ok, since you're obviously a mac apologist, then please tell me why they don't have the market that windows has? Not to say that OSX is a bad system (in fact, I think it's really damn impressive) but the fact that they've managed to nail all these things for years and they still haven't beaten windows (or DOS back when it was DOS) just goes to show that it takes more than the things you list.

Point 1: ease of use. Macs have had this down since day 1. MS has had the market.

Point 2: Games, Internet, Word Processing. Games, not the whole game market, but a lot of good titles made their way to the Mac in the past. Internet, always had decent stuff, especially with IE 5 for the Mac (great browser!). Word Processing. Can't beat MS Word.

Point 3: Make it pretty. Always was prettier than windows, and is now way way prettier. Still not beating MS. Granted, the interface is different now, but the consistent one over 15 years didn't save them before.

This whole post isn't to say that I don't like Macs (I used to love them actually, and I still work with them all the time) but the fact is that with a strong user base like Windows to take over you need a hell of a lot of factors, and the ones you list are only a few of the important ones. No one is going to even buy the system without a fairly consistent UI, among other things.

Personally, I think people would love a free system (free beer, although explaining how the speech thing will benefit them would be an extra bonus) and underestimating the factor of cost is making the exact same mistake that Apple themselves made for so many years. We just have to get Linux on to people's desktops pre-installed so they don't have to dick around so much.

"I may not have morals, but I have standards."

Re:This is not a troll™ (2)

teg (97890) | more than 13 years ago | (#195846)

How does any game that involves recompiling the kernel get a 10/10 for installation?

That isn't a property of the game install - the game will work right out of the box if you have a properly configured system(3Dwise).

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (1)

bonoboy (98001) | more than 13 years ago | (#195847)

Liv Tyler may be prettier, but I'll bet the 800 lb gorilla would be a lot more fun. :)

Then you're not doing it right!

Re:Good To See Games (1)

cafelatte (99544) | more than 13 years ago | (#195848)

I agree. This should apply to all apps though, not just games. KDE and GNOME should agree on some standards so that they can interoperate. Things such as file associations and package management.
If you want a review on gameplay, you may as well read this [] review by gamespot.

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (3)

Argylengineotis (118734) | more than 13 years ago | (#195849)

1. Make it go. Easily. Linux sure as hell can't do this (Mac OS X, on the other hand, does)

2. Games, Internet, Word processing. In that order- linux has the internet thing down. Games are coming, and office suites are getting there.

These things you mention are, at least on the surface quite obviously important. But I find that even as an internet/coding only type of user, the most important reasons I have for remaining with win2k over any given *NIX are:

1. Standardized keyboard shortcuts. I spend so much time on the keyboard, any delay from reaching for and orienting the mouse can amount to hours per month. If I can alt+tab between apps (or to my dos console to move files around) I tend to do it. If I can alt+F4 to kill a window or app, I'll do that. etc. Since almost every winders app I've come across subscribes to these basic keyboardability tenets, I can usually remain on the keboard throughout an entire computing session. Not so for Gnome or KDE apps. no contest.

2. Robust mouse wheel and extra button support. I find when I am sitting at my computer purely to browse, I rely on the context menu, mouse wheel, back button and forward button (in that order) completely. Again, needing to refocus the mouse, to drag a scroll bar or click a fwd/back button consumes time and effort that really adds up over the course of a month's computing. Using a four or five button mouse relieves much of that problem. And all the mice work as soon as you plug them in. I can indeed configure an intellimouse manually under GNU/Linux, but why the hell would I want to bother?

3. Hardware Support. I don't know what to say here. It is so very obviously the strength of Windows that no comparison to *NIX is worth mentioning. Why people choose to wait months or years to gain the full use of their hardware (if ever) is completely beyond me. Why people would settle for antiquated hardware, ie. that hardware that linux sufficiently supports, is also quite beyond me, considering the prices to be found today.

These features are not just lackoing in linux, however. Anywhere you look, to *NIX, QNX, BeOS, and even MacOS fall drastically short of my personal minimum usabillity standards. Until such time as Linux and the other contenders can support all of these features, I am afraid I'm going to have to pass. I am not on this box 10 hours a day to tweak and fix the OS or reach for the mouse every 30 seconds. I am on it to accomplish some work, quickly, that I may get back to the incessant browsing that sites like slashdot have made me a junky for.

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (2)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 13 years ago | (#195850)

If you can come up with five thousand examples of hardware that 'just works' under Linux, it's not going to make up for the one example that a user comes up with from his own configuration.

Your "entirely new system" is called (4)

yerricde (125198) | more than 13 years ago | (#195851)

Eventually, I think MS might be bogged down by all the backwards compatibility. They might have to switch to an entirely new system.

Possibilities for your "entirely new system":
  • Xbox. Microsoft has to be compatible only with NTSC, the analog color TV standard in Japan and North America, and PAL, the analog color TV standard in Europe. Microsoft is almost certain to release an upgrade package that turns Xbox into a "real computer" that can run a subset of Office.
  • Win64. Microsoft can run Win32 in a complete virtual machine, as it did with Win16 on NT.

This would mean that users would have to pick between the MS stuff without software

Microsoft would actually make some effort to have launch titles. That's what happened with NT; virtualization let all the old Win3.1 stuff and some of the DOS stuff still run.

Re:A Disappointment (1)

mpinard (125537) | more than 13 years ago | (#195852)

The Matrox G400 with 32mb ram, I can play about any 3d games on Windows in 1152x864 or 1024x768. Things aren't that slow unless maybe if you use a very old driver.

Mathieu Pinard
Tribsoft Inc.

Re:Where's the Mac?? (1)

mpinard (125537) | more than 13 years ago | (#195853)

Last time I've talked to someone at Sierra, they were still disapointed by the low sales of Caesar 3 and didn't want to release new games for Mac. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the sales of Caesar 3 on Mac was still higher than any Linux games.

Mathieu Pinard
Tribsoft Inc.

Good To See Games (2)

jchawk (127686) | more than 13 years ago | (#195854)

It's great to see games for linux being released. I think that more games would be released for linux if we could have a unified standard desktop. I'm not saying that we should do away with other desktops, but it is my firm belief that if the major desktop developers would get together and work towards a linux standard desktop and set of tools you would see many more games as well as applications released for linux. If linux is to truly stand out to the masses there must be more commerical applications released, which would certainly happen with a unified desktop. Just my two cents.

Re:A Disappointment (2)

davelee (134151) | more than 13 years ago | (#195855)

This isn't a compatibility issue. The Matrox G-series is just SLOW!! I had a G200 and got maybe 3-10 fps in half-life for example. Getting a GeForce 32 MX raised that to 15-80. A G400 is about 2x as fast as a G200, but still WAY too slow. And in any modern game, I wouldn't want to inflict 16 MB of video RAM on my worst enemy. (Texture swapping hurts!)

Re:Where's the Mac?? (1)

cfleming (161451) | more than 13 years ago | (#195856)

They aren't. Loki is an independent company that ports Windows source code for a cut of the profit.

The question is why Loki chose Linux and not MacOS, and that is because it is a growing platform, with no real gamming support, and is enjoyable to program for.

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (4)

mukund (163654) | more than 13 years ago | (#195857) took a glance at the Tribes 2 Linux beta a while ago. It is available here [] .

My thoughts... (2)

/dev/urandom (167536) | more than 13 years ago | (#195858)

I was one of the lucky few to get the Linux port in the first batch shipped by Tux Games, so I've been playing it for a while. Here are my thoughts:

- Good: The graphics in T2, while not stunning, are very nice, and in fact very impressive in some areas. The game sounds are excellent, and the sound track is just incredible. Not to mention the new game modes totally rock (gotta love Bounty), and the few new items in the game add some flavor without upsetting the balance.

- Bad: Performance is a joke at times, with mysterious slow-downs on some maps. The "community" services are a nice idea, but feel like they're held together by duct tape and could break any moment (and they usually do).

I waited a year and a half for Tribes 2, and as a hard core Tribes player, I can say it was definitely worth the wait. It's not perfect, but it is a nice update to Tribes, and I love it. I do have a couple of tips for people, though:

- To see your FPS rate, bring up the console (this is bound to the ` key, in the upper left of your keyboard, by default) and type: showaudio();

- Do _not_ even consider Tribes 2 if you have anything less than a Pentium II 500mHz or equivelant. If you've got a Voodoo 3 card, I hear they work great, but V5 is supposedly total garbage with the game. Your best bet is any sort of recent Nvidia card (it works great with my GeForce 2). Make sure you have at least 128MB of RAM too.

- If you're suffering from framerate problems, here's how you can get another 10fps or so without making things ugly: go to your graphics settings and turn Terrain Detail down most of the way, and maybe lower the rendering distance a bit. Then go to the texture settings and turn the Terrain Textures to the max. This way you'll have some warping in terrain as you move, but it'll still look good, and get you some speed.

- If you suck, go through the training missions. Once you've finished those, play some LAN games against bots to get a feel for the different modes. The bots do a good job of giving you some practice for the real thing, and you don't have to parade your (lack of) skill in public. ;)

Re:In related Linux-gaming news, John Romero (1)

Skuto (171945) | more than 13 years ago | (#195859)

Nice link. I fell for it.


Re:Where's the Mac?? (1)

richie123 (180501) | more than 13 years ago | (#195860)

Maybe because the mac is such a shoddy OS you would never be able to get run on your shiteball rage 128.
One good flame deserves another.

tribes2 for linux, the ultimate office suite! (2)

richie123 (180501) | more than 13 years ago | (#195861)

ya, you thought Tribes2 wass a game , but little did you know it has an internal email client, irc client, voice chat client, user directory system and more.

Oh ya that game part is hella fun!

Re:A Disappointment (1)

Some Dumbass... (192298) | more than 13 years ago | (#195862)

So, is the game so much fun that it's worth the money to upgrade? Or should I stick with all the fun games I already have which run just fine on my "inferior" hardware?

Please God... (1)

Ando[evilmedic] (199537) | more than 13 years ago | (#195863)

...let it be better than one of Michael's reviews

- Ando
You are the weakest link, goodbye.

Re:A Disappointment (2)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 13 years ago | (#195864)

Yet another person complaining about modern games not running on non-modern hardware.

Non-modern? Your beautiful G400? Sorry, the product cycle in this industry is now [a well-discussed] six months. This game is not even close to six months old, meaning... current product cycle.

Even in Windows, you'll need a GeForce2 or a Voodoo5 to play Tribes2 with any degree of sincerity. Buy new hardware. If you don't want to buy new hardware, buy old games. If you won't do either, give up gaming. Don't post to Slashdot and complain about the game maker for making a great game and the game porter for making a great port.

This is just like the Myst III article the other day (a total joke) or all of the bitching from cheapskates about various recent 3D titles: "I'll be damned if the latest-greatest[TM] game doesn't crash a hell of a lot on my Voodoo Rush PCI card with 4 megabytes!"

Re:Want to find Tribes 2 games? (1)

The Troll Catcher (220464) | more than 13 years ago | (#195865)

Why would you want to do that when Tribes2 has a perfectly good server browser built in?

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (1)

Alatar (227876) | more than 13 years ago | (#195866)

Where would you put them, then? User's home directory is typically the only place on the system where the user may write to. This keeps everything clean and prevents users from trashing the whole system because of a misbehaving application. Contrast this with operating systems where anyone can walk up to the computer and, for example, delete all files (cough *WINDOWS* cough).

I had the same or similar problem (1)

sheetsda (230887) | more than 13 years ago | (#195867)

... on my Athlon 800 with 128 MB PC100 and Geforce. Then I upgraded to 256 megs PC133 and the game now runs flawlessly.

"// this is the most hacked, evil, bastardized thing I've ever seen. kjb"

Re:/.-ed (1)

Oshuma.Shiroki (232199) | more than 13 years ago | (#195868)

Just curious as to why Slashdot never gets slashdotted. Conspiracy? CmdrTaco's evil DoS scheme?

Where's the Mac?? (2)

Frobozz0 (247160) | more than 13 years ago | (#195869)

Could someone please explain to me why they are wasting their time on a Linux port? There are 25 million Macintosh users who have a _consumer_ OS... maybe the only thing that will come out of this is a MacOS X version? Let the flames begin.

I'd love to support Loki, but ... (1)

Why Should I (247317) | more than 13 years ago | (#195870)

I leave in Australia and I can't seem to find ny Loki distributors around here.

Anyone (Aussies that is) know of any local Loki distributors?

Re:Not a troll but... (1)

Scoria (264473) | more than 13 years ago | (#195871)

(This isn't OT, metamodders)

Woah, I guessed his configuration. That reviewer is using a 700 mhz Athlon with a 64mb GeForce 2. Who would have guessed? ::grin::

Not a troll but... (2)

Scoria (264473) | more than 13 years ago | (#195872)

... Tribes 2 is only fantastic on 700mhz+ with a GeForce 2 graphics card.

And don't come back and tell me that I should upgrade my hardware to be able to play a game where I'm on their (higher up) supported list. And they claim my configuration "should work fine with Tribes 2."

Sorry, it doesn't. And I would hate to see how that game runs on Linux (though it does look fun if you have a fast enough machine.)

For those of you that are sick of MySQL errors... (3)

Scoria (264473) | more than 13 years ago | (#195873)

Got mirror? []

Re:linux needs more games (1)

obidobi (306713) | more than 13 years ago | (#195874)

Well.. it will never happen but it would be interesting. Think about this headline:

"iD Software has decided that their new game Doom3 will only be release under the Linux operatingsystem. A Linux distibution and instructions on how to uninstall windows will be included in the box"

Re:Whoo. That was empty. (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 13 years ago | (#195875)

you can ssh in an killall -9 tribes2 and almost always you get your machine back without a reboot.

If it hangs in Windows (2000) you just hit ctrl-alt-delete and then have the task manager kill it's process, and get your box back. For those that don't know Windows 2000 does a very good job of keeping errant apps from messing with the system. If an app freezes, you can call up the task manager and kill it off. About the only time it truly goes down so hard as to be unrecoverable is when a buggy driver is installed (since they have system level access).

Not really (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 13 years ago | (#195876)

I mean, Tribes 2 is cool, but not being able to play it is nothing to loose sleep over. DOn't upgrade your graphics card just on account of it. If you want to get the upgrade anyways then yeah, I'd say make it an nVidia, but if you're happy with what you have don't worry about it.

Re:A Disappointment (4)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 13 years ago | (#195877)

Actually I don't think this is a Tribes2-for-Linux problem, I think it's just generally a Tribes 2 problem. All our computers at work (2000 boxes) have Matrox G400 MAX dualheads, and on none of them does Tribes 2 run well. When I first installed it all the graphics were really messed up (textures missing, etc), and it only ran about 5 minutes before bluescreening the system. So I got new drivers installed which fixed the bluescreens and the graphics glitches, but then the game just ran like crap. On my home 2000 system with a GeForce DDR, it runs great, and it's not a processor issue since I only have a single PIII 700 and the work units are dual 733s. Even in 640x480 it was still slow. So I personally don't think the problems are Loki's, I think the problems are Dynamix's. I've also been told by friends that it runs like crap on Voodoo 5s. Basically, it sounds like Dynamix designed Tribes 2 for the GeForce and you're SOL if you don't have one. So send your angry letters to them, not Loki.

Re:A Disappointment (1)

The Milky Bar Kid (411137) | more than 13 years ago | (#195878)

Dynamix seem to be making a habit of courting a particular graphics card with each of their Tribes releases. For Tribes I, it was designed to run well on Voodoo chipset cards and crash and burn on other cards. I never played Tribes on my old Riva TNT based system - it sucked even after they'd released OpenGL drivers. My friends with Voodoo IIs - no problem.

This time, I've got a GeForce II, so no probs. for me. For the Voodoo users out there, check the readme file with Tribes II - it gives the URL of a site with the voodoo drivers Dynamix recommends for running Tribes II.

If I was an evil overlord, I would not tell my Legions of Terror "And he must be taken alive!"
The command will be "And try to take him alive if it is reasonably practical." ml

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (1)

deaddrunk (443038) | more than 13 years ago | (#195879)

3. Hardware Support. I don't know what to say here. It is so very obviously the strength of Windows that no comparison to *NIX is worth mentioning. Why people choose to wait months or years to gain the full use of their hardware (if ever) is completely beyond me. Why people would settle for antiquated hardware, ie. that hardware that linux sufficiently supports, is also quite beyond me, considering the prices to be found today.

Cobblers. The hardware support under Windows 2000, if it is better, is only marginally so. So many things don't work. That's why there is a compatibility list [] . (1)

Totally_Tux (452763) | more than 13 years ago | (#195880)

I heard good things about this Aussie store, and tried them out. Thumbs up so far.

Re:A standard UI is unnecessary for games. (1)

Slashdot Editors (454325) | more than 13 years ago | (#195881)

So if Linux wants users, the coders and OSS companies should start by being painless and pretty: who would you invite to the party- the 800 lb Gorilla or Liv Tyler? Yeah, Liv Tyler may be prettier, but I'll bet the 800 lb gorilla would be a lot more fun. :)
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